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Newbie Mini Mafia XVII - Page 12

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 14 2012 23:23 GMT
#221
@ s0Lstice + sciberbia
I know about those pre-lynch jitters. It's part of why I play this game. Nothing quite gets to me like the time right before the deadline It's both glorious and agonizing.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 14 2012 23:27 GMT
#222
Heavonearth:
Sciberbia
O.golden_ne
Roflwaffles55
Miltonkram
Suki
Alan133

O.golden_ne:
Heavonearth
Trackd00r

Roflwaffles55:
S0lstice

Not voting:
Austinmcc
Crossfire99

Also voting is mandatory. Moldy jeb is being replaced by unforgiven_ve. 12 alive and it takes 6 to lynch.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 14 2012 23:28 GMT
#223
I think Heavon looks scummy. But his voting took off after he posted that he was going to be gone for auto repairs. And there's been very little pushback. I'm particularly worried by: (1) us going for the guy who basically said "Won't be around to defend myself," and (2) the lack of any pushback against him, when we had multiple targets recently. There could be some bussing going on, but we had a couple other juicy targets, and I wouldn't expect a bus in that situation. At the very least, my stance right now is that he doesn't look good, but the vast majority of the votes and comments on him seem to have occurred after he said he was leaving. I don't want to lynch him today based on that alone.

See your comment towards him. Yes, his reads would help town. Yes, he ought to defend himself. But he may actually have been gone these last few hours, and I want to see his response before I lynch him. If it looks bad, there's D2. I think I'm saying the same thing over and over, so I'll knock it off.

Apart from those basic statements, I'll note this. He DOES fit into a category of people trying to look like they're scumhunting but not. The 1 post suspicion of Golden, his comment on MJ -
On June 14 2012 02:39 HeavOnEarth wrote:
check out Mouldy Jeb's posts, and accusations
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2012 00:20 Mouldy Jeb wrote:
nope roffle that was a gut feeling about you that why I stated I have no evidence


Why would someone try to direct suspicions with NO reasoning?
his chiming in on crossfire - + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2012 20:15 HeavOnEarth wrote:
@Sciberbia
in addition to what u said on crossfire, notice that he
1) only replies when called out. Every message he is replying to someone, not making his own points aside from his opening.
2) Every one of his posts feels like complete filler to me. he is trying to LOOK helpful, without actively contributing anything
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2012 02:06 Crossfire99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2012 02:00 roflwaffles55 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2012 01:56 Crossfire99 wrote:
Just woke up. I'll start with that only as a last resort will I be for lynching a lurker Day 1. If we can get some good scum hunting done Day 1 we will have a more productive lynch than just a random lurker. Now onto what has been happening.

On the whole suki and trapdoor issue:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2012 12:44 suki wrote:
Is it just me or is trackd00r coming off as scummy already?

Show nested quote +

If I understood correctly, it doesn't mean that I would stop any lynch that I didn't mention on my analysis. Just because I have a candidate for lynch, it doesn't imply that I discard any other possibility.

It's something related to common sense. If any other cases are convincing enough, I'll throw my vote there in the case I can't get a majority. In the other hand, if we end up like RNG lynching (which is a bad idea), any other poster that could be doing silly mistakes, or even a player practically saying ''hey guys, I'm mafia, lynch me'' that's when it goes against my mindset. Any possibility is valuable, but if there is something absurdly wrong, I'll call it, even if that means a no lynch.


This post screams to me that he's trying to be super cautious with his words, so that he'll have a safety net if/when he ever changes a vote or bandwagons on someone else. He throws out some 'obvious' examples of reasons of what wouldn't agree with him, and even mentions that he would follow through on a read, even if it that means a no lynch.

BUT WAIT! Just ONE post previous to that he says this:

Show nested quote +
I won't accept a NO LYNCH unless I believe we may have a serious mislynch coming.


...

Dude. You try to take a firm stance against something, and then you do the most scummy wishy-washy-ness thing ever the very next post. You're clearly informed about mafia as you brought up the idea of a day 1 RNG lynch, and being against a no lynch is not a difficult or complicated policy to hold. I feel that such a simple logical slip only happens if you're trying to play it safe and keep your options open.

##vote trackd00r


I think suki was just being aggressive. I admit that I found trapdoor's response post to be weird, but then I realized that English is probably not his native language, so I reread it a few times. I don't see a contradiction in there, he is just explaining that he would try to stop a lynch that he really believed was on a townie. I'll give suki the benefit of the doubt on this case and say she is an over eager townie for now.

On roflwaffle and alan:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2012 22:28 roflwaffles55 wrote:
I woke up this morning to the arguments made towards trackd00r, and while the arguments made against him weren't particularly convincing, his defense was a little bit lackluster as well.

However, I would like to bring your attention to someone else that is acting quite scummy as it stands.


Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 13:05 alan133 wrote:
On June 13 2012 11:12 roflwaffles55 wrote:
On June 13 2012 11:03 alan133 wrote:
Good morning everyone. Looks like the first thing I am going to do in the office is to play mafia on TL. I don't recognize anyone here since this is my first game, well except for s0Lsitce since he is in the game I read. That's my brief introduction, and habitually in the beginning of any game, GLHF.

I am new and am unsure how to proceed with the game, but my current strategy is to wait for more post to come. Currently I have no FoS. That also mean I do not trust anyone yet.


What are your thoughts on what's been posted as of yet?


On the inactive/lurkers lynch
+ Show Spoiler +

I believe inactive players/lurkers are generally anti-town/bad town play in any mafia game, so lynching them isn't a bad idea (Since I believe d1 lynch is good, refer below), if there aren't better candidates of course.


On the day 1 lynch/no lynch
+ Show Spoiler +

I agree on lynching day 1 based on my experience with other mafia games (outside TL) with similar setup. By reading other games on TL I also notice the current meta game is to lynch when there are more players, as it gives townies clues.


I am off to lunch, will be commenting on my thoughts later as I see some interesting posts/votes already.


His first post puts him on the bandwagon with his opinion on the inactives and lurkers, and is generally a contentless post with little to no controversy. Otherwise, nothing to bring the spotlight to him at all.

While this is not by any means evidence of scummy play, there comes to attention the next post he makes.

Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 15:40 alan133 wrote:
My thoughts on suki's case:
+ Show Spoiler +

Any possibility is valuable, but if there is something absurdly wrong, I'll call it, even if that means a no lynch.

I won't accept a NO LYNCH unless I believe we may have a serious mislynch coming.

I started writing before I refresh and saw s0lstice's post. As he already pointed it out, there are no contradictions between the two statements. trackd00r merely states that NL is bad unless it is a "serious" mislynch in both highlighted sentence. If I am missing something, please correct me.

Also, Miltonkram:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 13 2012 10:35 Miltonkram wrote:
Hey all, glad to see we've got a bit of activity already.

In NMM XV we actually had a decent discussion about no-lynches (involving me making a fool of myself) and how they can actually be beneficial in certain setups. That being said, we don't know for certain if we'll have any modkills so we should leave no-lynches off the table until we hit the unlikely scenario that a no-lynch is beneficial for the town.

Town, the best way to contribute is just to get posting. Let everyone know what your thoughts are. Did someone post something suspicious? Let us know about it. Do you think the town is making a bad move? Let us know about it. If a townie lurks he/she is letting down his/her entire team. So don't do it, K? I'm sooooooooper serious. Like sooooper, soooooooooooper serious.

Hey sciberbia, remember this
##Vote: sciberbia
...heh heh heh


Is it me or you are not actually + Show Spoiler +
soooooooooooooooooper serious
? I personally think (well played) townies are not the ones that bluffs around, let alone voting someone without any reason at all? Generally, fooling around, to me, is anti-town/ bad town play.


My current opinion
+ Show Spoiler +
FMPOV, suki's case was most probably based on a misunderstanding, but (s)he could very well did it intentionally hoping for a bandwagon leading to a mislynch. Note that I am merely listing the possibilities, I do not FoS anyone yet, which can also mean that I do not trust anyone yet.


This is the post that really got me wondering. How by now can you have no suspicions? There has been quite a few suspicious decisions by several people, giving you more then enough time to form a case against someone, or at least apply some pressure.

His statement about trackd00r comes after s0lstice, leaving his opinion tied to a fairly influential player and just reiterating what s0lstice said with no additional evidence or opinionated comments. Again, seeming like he's contributing without actually bringing anything to the table.

He throws around some suspicion towards Miltonkram, however not enough to constitute a case or apply any pressure, just enough to make people go filter milton and consider what he might have done, which yet again, leaves him out of the spotlight.

The last statement he makes in this post is the most suspicious and the largest tell of his indecision and lack of real input. He restates his opinion that suki's case is a misunderstanding, again, nothing of value. He then continues to explain that he has no FoS and that he doesn't trust anyone, leaving his options open, and having no real contrary opinions.

His current play is anti-town at best, as he hasn't brought any of his thoughts to the table, and has only left ambiguous and bandwagoning answers to keep attention on those with controversial opinions.


I think roflwaffle is jumping a little too hard on alan here. It is like 1/3 of the way through Day 1. We are not going to have a lot to work with and consequently we aren't going to really know what to think of people until we get more information. Therefore, I feel alan is playing smartly by not rushing to find every little thing that might possibly be suspicious and throw a vote on someone because of it.

On Milton: He was just joking around. If he doesn't stop then I'll start getting suspicious of him.

As for my current thoughts:

The bolded part of this post by austin makes me suspicious of him.
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2012 22:23 austinmcc wrote:
I don't read those posts as contradictory, believe the second one clarifies the first and explains that, while he'd consider a NL, the standard is higher than "Town is lynching someone that isn't one of my top couple reads."

That said, even if the two statements are entirely contradictory, I don't really see anything scummy in that. More inclined to see contradictions concerning votes and reads as scummy, where someone has stated one thing but then has to take a party line, rather than super early statements concerning a no lynch. There's no agenda to push on that issue.


Two completely contradictory statements without reasoning for the change is very suspicious. This is a good way to catch scum. They know the alignment of every person, so they have to make cases that they know are wrong (excluding bussing). This can lead to contradictory posts to make them better fit in with the current town mindset.

Austin, why don't you think that contradictory statements are suspicious?


We need more information, and the only way to get that information is by pressuring people, scum starts with an information advantage and the faster we work to even that out, the better position we'll be in.


I agree that we need more information and we get that from pressuring people, but we need to do that smartly. If too many people are throwing around minor accusations all the time, it just confuses the town and allows mafia to sit back and laugh. That is what happened in NMM XIII when I was mafia. Ask austin, he was in it too.

On June 14 2012 03:38 Crossfire99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2012 02:45 s0Lstice wrote:
Crossfire99, what do you think of what I said about Mouldy Jeb?

Roflwaffles55, same question.


Yeah Mouldy is acting really weird. He needs to get active to explain himself. Everything he has said so far lacks good reasoning.

On June 14 2012 03:50 Crossfire99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2012 03:24 s0Lstice wrote:
On June 14 2012 02:02 Crossfire99 wrote:
--snipped

Be careful roflwaffle, votes are only easily removable if you are around to remove them. You never know what might happen. Also, votes early on in the day cycle that don't really mean much followed by complete disappearance during a controversial lynch can be scum tactic to avoid making mistakes in a heated debate that occurs last minute.


What an odd thing to say. Your message boils down to: don't vote because you might not be around later, and when that happens you are going to look scummy. Discouraging voting for such an arbitrary reason looks kind of scummy. Also, this hall-monitor stuff is a comfortable way for scum to post and have it look like they are pro-town.


I never said don't vote. I just said be careful about throwing your votes around willy-nilly under the premise that you are going to remove them later. I never even said don't do that. I just don't want someone sticking someone else with a vote for flimsy reasons that ends up sealing a lynch because they couldn't get back in time to change it. That was the entire point of those two sentences.

As for the mention of the scum tactic, I'm just saying that sometimes scum can not take part in big discussions later in the day by voting early and then disappearing. I'm just trying to help roflwaffle, by trying to get him to think about taking his vote seriously and having good reasons for whatever he does. If no one holds anyone accountable mafia can just breeze on by.



3) notice his defensive, and meek tone; in addition to his low post count. he's obviously afraid to attract attention to himself
4) he was lurking for a LONGGG time before he finally decided to post . What u thought we all forgot about that?
Not much there. His bit on crossfire is way more robust than his bit on golden or MJ, but still doesn't feel like a whole lot of scumhunting for a day. Again though, I want to wait on him.




That leaves me with cross.
##Vote: Crossfire99

What I'd ask of everyone is to show me where Crossfire has done any scumhunting. He posted a little, dropped off the face of the earth, came back, responded to everyone's comments towards him, but never even gave us a single read throughout the day. Nobody looked scummy, because he really just didn't comment on ANYONE. I'm confused as to how that can be towny behavior, and he dropped in, spent time responding to all these people, but spent 0 characters doing any kind of hunting himself.

Lurking is bad, but you can lurk and contribute when you pop up. HeavOnEarth didn't contribute when he came back. Crossfire didn't contribute when he came back, except addressing our concerns about him. Between the timing of the votes on HeavOn and the lack of any push on him, I'd rather go with Crossfire today.
Fe fi fo fum.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 14 2012 23:32 GMT
#224
s0Lstice never voted for roflwaffles. He put an FOS on him. His vote should still be for HeavOnEarth
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
June 14 2012 23:33 GMT
#225
my vote is on HeavOnEarth my dear host, I have merely FoS'ed Rofflwaffles55
ATOBTTR
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
June 14 2012 23:33 GMT
#226
miltoninja activate!
ATOBTTR
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 14 2012 23:39 GMT
#227
On June 15 2012 08:33 s0Lstice wrote:
my vote is on HeavOnEarth my dear host, I have merely FoS'ed Rofflwaffles55

Noted!
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
June 14 2012 23:44 GMT
#228
Austin, you do have a point about Crossfire99 not really scumhunting. I'll be going through everyone's filters again on N1, I'll pay close attention to his. Consider though...he has a pattern of inactivity no matter what he rolls. He could have came back, saw that his name was in the lynch hat, and thought that his limited time was best spent defending himself. I don't see this as unreasonable.

This is not an excuse for him, just food for thought. He is going to have some work to do on night 1/day 2 to prove that he is pursuing the town win condition.
ATOBTTR
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 14 2012 23:47 GMT
#229
LET THE GALLOWS RUN RED!!!!! :OOOOO

..I've been feeling jittery all day. It's seriously more effective than any amount of caffiene >_<;
roflwaffles55
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada59 Posts
June 14 2012 23:51 GMT
#230
On June 15 2012 03:52 s0Lstice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2012 02:44 roflwaffles55 wrote:
I believe that the most lynchable potential scum right now would be Crossfire99. I understand that there are already votes on HeavOnEarth, but if he really is that incompetent at bringing cases to the table, as a scum, why would he try to post them? He is suspicious to me, but not as suspicious as Crossfire. Unless he responds to the accusations in a convincing and collected manner soon, I strongly believe that he should be lynched.


What? This is a really, really odd question. Your question assumes that he thinks of himself as incompetent, and actively tries to compensate for it. You clear him on this basis: a scum HeavOnEarth would look in the mirror and be like 'boy are you incompetent, don't go posting any cases now!', whereas a townie HeavOnEarth would be blissfully unaware of his incompetence and post as he sees fit. Furthermore, it's obvious scum are going to make an effort to accuse people, they have to appear town...


##FoS: rofflwaffles55



You're right, it was more of a musing then a deliberate thought, I wasn't thinking from his perspective.
I do still believe that HeavOnEarth's play is extremely scummy, and I still am not satisfied with Crossfire's defenses.
NfinITE
trackd00r
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Chile284 Posts
June 14 2012 23:52 GMT
#231
I was checking Heaven's filter.

I must admint that he looks suspicious at this stage of the game. I was expecting from him a more detailed analysis of his play, since he stated that he has more experience in playing mafia.

I dislike the fact that he took the most easy target to pressure (golden), instead of trying to outline the other players, He also adds some points against CF, but isn't really big of a deal.

Although I share some suspicions with him, I see that he is not contributing at the same level as the rest of us are. I don't really think that it will be that much of a loss if he flips town. If that is the case, he have a whole post history behind us too see who bandwagoned and who tried to hunt down mafia

As I don't want a NL, I'll change my vote to heaven.

##Unvote: O.Golden_ne
##Vote: HeavOnEarth
''They put signs, but I can't read''
O.Golden_ne
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia204 Posts
June 14 2012 23:54 GMT
#232
not the right format???

[/b]##Vote HeavOnEarth[/b]

is fixed?
Like a baneling in a mineral line
O.Golden_ne
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia204 Posts
June 14 2012 23:55 GMT
#233
##Vote: HeavOnEarth

FML*
Like a baneling in a mineral line
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 14 2012 23:56 GMT
#234
It's there, solstice, but in all honesty I don't feel like that's the strongest point. Going through HeavOn's filter, it didn't look much better. Currently, and I guess forever since he's about to be gone, I read HeavOn as attempting to look like he was scumhunting.

So it's really a tossup between absolutely 0 attempt to scumhunt at all, and what feels like a failed attempt to look like you're trying to hunt. Neither looking good, and neither really worse than the other.
Fe fi fo fum.
O.Golden_ne
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia204 Posts
June 14 2012 23:58 GMT
#235
[QUOTE]On June 15 2012 08:15 sciberbia wrote:
@heavOnEarth
You are very likely getting lynched today. Your posting right now can only help town. If you are townie and are looking at the thread, you should definitely be posting reads right now.
[QUOTE]

Im hoping for a last minute post that can give some insight, if he is Town otherwise.
Like a baneling in a mineral line
O.Golden_ne
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia204 Posts
June 14 2012 23:59 GMT
#236
formatting is just not my pal today.
Like a baneling in a mineral line
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 15 2012 00:01 GMT
#237
heavonearth to get lynched. Night post soon!
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
June 15 2012 00:01 GMT
#238
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
June 15 2012 00:06 GMT
#239
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 15 2012 00:08 GMT
#240
Final vote count:

Heavonearth:
Sciberbia
O.golden_ne
Roflwaffles55
Miltonkram
Suki
Alan133
S0lstice
Trackd00r

O.golden_ne:
Heavonearth

Crossfire99:
Austinmcc

Not voting:
Crossfire99

Heavonearth got lynched.



No big flavor because iPad but here's a scurrilous verse instead.

If you're prone to be gassy and bloated
It's a problem at festive events
Make a run for the garden when toted
Lest your intestines ferment
In a crisis then just let it seep a bit
It feels really good but it smells like shiOH MY GOD

TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS THEY'RE LYNCHING HEAVONEARTH

THEY'RE STRINGING HIM UP FROM A LAMP POST

OH GOD

THE BLOOD

THE BLOOD

THE RED RED BLOOD



Heavonearth the godfather is no more.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
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