EPT
Fuck yeahNewbie Mini Mafia XVII - Page 13
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Fuck yeah | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
well done everyone! | ||
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roflwaffles55
Canada59 Posts
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
Beaware you both scum, we are going for you now! | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On June 15 2012 09:08 prplhz wrote: Heavonearth got lynched. This blue part scared the ever loving shit out of me | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Memories of hegeo, s0Lstice? heh heh heh | ||
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O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
 wow gfather! | ||
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O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
not funny  | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
lol yes  Zen_Man too from XVI. In half of my games I have ended up on a medic lynch bandwagon D1.  <---- that's me | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kAG8f.jpg) I just logged on now to post an update because I'm sure some of you were probably wondering where I went. I'll be reading through the thread for what little time I have now and respond to some questions people had for me. Am I going to be modkilled? | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
Hm.. On the one hand, missing the vote is definitely something a mafia would do if they thought they could get away with it, as it's easier to push a no lynch that way. I like how he just conveniently got in a car accident exactly before the lynch. It's possible that he's town, but I can definitely see scum motivation for this gambit. .... JUST KIDDING. I hope everyone is okay and things work out for you. I also hope he doesnt get modkilled cuz he has been contributing and sometimes shit just happens. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 04:03 roflwaffles55 wrote: Your responses to s0lstice were clearly lacking, you said that you questioned austin on his sentence to extract some information, however you never actually followed up on your question. While that may have something to do with your posting schedule, it is still a problem. You can't expect to play the game and get away with posting no real cases and content without being lynched. As of yet, you still have not formed your own suspicions it seems, you're just giving your opinion on other people's suspicions. The MJ question I'll let you off on because there's honestly nothing to talk about with him. As to s0lstice's third point, you never responded as to why you haven't been more actively scumhunting. I backed off my pressure of Austin because it was just that one question that I had that really jumped out to me. He explained himself sufficiently so I felt no further need to pressure him on that issue. I haven't been scum hunting because I didn't have the time the first time I posted. When I posted the second group of posts, I had to go out for bit right after and was going to scum hunt when I got back, but then my whole car situation happened, so that's the reason. Now for Austin: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 08:28 austinmcc wrote: That leaves me with cross. ##Vote: Crossfire99 What I'd ask of everyone is to show me where Crossfire has done any scumhunting. He posted a little, dropped off the face of the earth, came back, responded to everyone's comments towards him, but never even gave us a single read throughout the day. Nobody looked scummy, because he really just didn't comment on ANYONE. I'm confused as to how that can be towny behavior, and he dropped in, spent time responding to all these people, but spent 0 characters doing any kind of hunting himself. Lurking is bad, but you can lurk and contribute when you pop up. HeavOnEarth didn't contribute when he came back. Crossfire didn't contribute when he came back, except addressing our concerns about him. Between the timing of the votes on HeavOn and the lack of any push on him, I'd rather go with Crossfire today. Austin, the only thing I can say to you is that I know you will hold me accountable and make sure I post good stuff after I'm done with what I get done tonight. Hopefully I'll make it to day 2, so that you can see I'm trying. I also implore you consider that you might be getting a lot of your certainty and strong feelings on me from our last game. Try to look past that game, and look how I'm playing this game. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
@Crossfire That sucks man. Good luck with getting everything sorted out. And I hope you don't get modkilled. @all Now seems like a good time to share a couple more thoughts about night actions that have been bouncing around in my head. Nothing too crucial, but just some suggestions. @vigi: consider claiming your shot just before the daypost + Show Spoiler + There's a lot of personal judgement that goes into this, but if you are afraid of being NK'd, and you are using your shot, consider claiming it seconds before the daypost. Then if you get NK'd and flip vigi, we aren't deprived of information. on claiming RB's + Show Spoiler + If you are RB'd by the mafia roleblocker, it would be really helpful for you to claim the RB. It just gives the town information that the mafia already has. If on the other hand you are RB'd by the jailkeeper, claiming the RB probably isn't in the town's best interest because it lets mafia know the existance of a jailkeeper. Of course, the problem is that you will not know for sure who RB'd you. But depending on who you are, it could be pretty obvious. If you are pretty sure it was a mafia roleblocker that roleblocked you, you should claim it. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
I've gone through everyone left, and let me say that one person really sticks out to me, more than anyone else. trackd00r The first thing that I did when looking for scum is see who targetted MouldyJeb, and Crossfire. Between those two and HeavOnEarth, these three made up the prime candidates for the day 1 lynch. Also keep in mind that HeavOnEarth targeted Mouldy, Crossfire and Golden as I go through trackd00r's history. To start, trackd00r posts a meh case on Mouldy early on but doesn't press it. Later on he posts that he's not convinced of Mouldy's case. He says that the most suspicious players on his list are me, crossfire and golden, and that he'd push a lynch on any of them. First, he totally forgets to post analysis on me. At this point three players (Milton, sciberbia and Alan) have stated their suspicions on me. It's really weird how he states that he's suspicious and doesn't back it up. He's willing to lynch me, which means he must have a strong opinion on my play. He posts big analysis on crossfire and golden but then forgets to justify his suspicions on me. This alone isn't suspicious but it questions the clarity of his thoughts, and its easier for mafia to get confused as they're constantly trying to spin things. He targets Crossfire. At this point Crossfire is under pressure by austin, roflwaffle, Milton, and sciberbia. Golden and I have been the ones backing crossfire up. trackd00r lists the things that Crossfire has done. He dislikes how Crossfire disappeared from radar and was just checking the thread, and how he didn't bring anything new to the table. He ends without a solid opinion, states that there's nothing to quote to show for evidence. Basically, his words amount to 'I dont like the way he is playing'. Yet he is willing to push a lynch on Crossfire. Following this he writes a case on Golden. He specifically states that Golden is 'very similar to crossfire, but acts in a much scummier way.' Bragging to much IMO about his task of writing stuff. He states that he wants write a summary for himself. Dude, you are not playing alone, you have 8 any other people doing the same thing, and the only way is by working togheter. His argument has nothing to do with, and doesn't label this, as scummy behaviour. Annoying, maybe(?) but not scummy. He also finds Golden's wall of text "quite disappointing" In some parts, where he clearly explains events, it's got the name of an opinion. I don't quite understand his words. I believe he's saying something along the lines of Golden explaining events clearly, and that it has something to do with an opinion... But regardless of the exact meaning, he isn't labelling this behaviour as scummy. Finally to end all this post, he FOS'd MouldyJeb with NO reasoning or whatsoever. He even took s0lstice analysis to back up his descsion, instead of using his unique arguments. Here, it clearly shows that his opinions are not more than a influence from other players. In just 6 minutes, CF passed from being okay for him, to ''omg might be suspicious''. And, where is his case against MJ anyways? Basically trackd00r is arguing that Golden brags about the task of writing stuff, that he explains events (maybe without making an opinion?? if i try to find an argument in his words, since golden doesn't really attack anyone in that post) and doesn't have unique arguments. In summary, Golden has been really inconsistent with his play The expectations I had from him are far from satisfactory, in function of what he has promised. In summary, he is willing to lynch three people, but he doesn't elaborate on why he thinks any of the three are suspicious. His arguments amount to not bringing anything to the table, and not playing satisfactorily. He votes golden, and makes a comment that if he comes back on time he'll vote to prevent a NL. He then does so, changing his vote to HeavOn. This was at the last minute, and HeavOn already had the majority, so the lynch was more or less set. He can't even argue that he didn't realize that HeavOn had the majority because prplhz had posted a list that clearly pointed this out just a few posts above. I've gone through trackd00r's play in detail, now I'd like to summarize the points and explain why each point is suspicious. 1. Soft aggression vs Mouldy early on but later says he's not convinced. Slightly important point because Mafia want to avoid all targetting the same people. 2. Goes after Crossfire and Golden. Crossfire was a sort of easy bandwagon since so many players were after him. The Golden push is suspicious because so few people targeted him, one of whom was HeavOnEarth. 3. Does not comment on HeavOnEarth at all until the very very end. Definitely scum motivation for avoiding this. trackd00r was around back when s0lstice first started his push on HeavOnEarth. That was when trackd00r was pushing his cases against Crossfire and Golden. 4. His cases are all weak. He never points out scummy play despite singling out the three people who he would push for a lynch. His arguments are weak and consist of not contributing and not playing 'satisfactorily'. There's no townie motivation that late in the day to simply target people for unsatisfactory play, as opposed to finding scummy play. There is plenty of scum motivation to try to find something, anything, to attack, while not putting themselves fully on the radar. 5. He bandwagons at the last minute on HeavOnEarth. A pointless move. His analysis is flaky. He says, "I must admit that he looks suspicious at this stage of the game." Trackd00r has been noncommital, he's been weakly targetting people for playing unsatisfactorily as opposed to playing scummy. He went for the easy target of Crossfire, and you can argue he tried to push a bandwagon on Golden with HeavOn. He refused to comment on HeavOn, and comes back at the last minute to appear like he's supporting town by voting against HeavOn as the last, and wholly unnecessary vote. I am posting this now because I have no life and I really should be doing something else but I'm here reading filters and writing extremely long posts instead. I figure I'll get this out there now and let people mull over my thoughts. I'm interested in other people's opinions of who might be scum. I (and I kid you not) quickly went through everyone's filters and I picked the most scummy looking person of the bunch to target. I wonder if someone can point out other scummy stuff that I missed. Cheers. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
Uh.. regarding night actions I don't know. I honestly haven't even considered them yet cuz a) last game I died day 1 and b) we didn't even have any blues. Sooo.. I will comment on night actions in the morning when I wake up. It seems like a really relevant topic so I want to explain why I posted a giant scumhunting thread and then didn't talk about night actions at all. Well that's the reason. See you guys in like 8 hours. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
Solstice drew the first blood with these + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 10:07 s0Lstice wrote: Alright, so I went filter spelunking and explored every nook and cranny. My general impression at this moment is one of disappointment. I know it's rare to get good reads on day 1, but some people's filters are incredibly barren. If I had to lynch right now, here would be my suspects. HeavOnEarth He's pretty lurky. His hard stance is on Golden, where he builds a case on the poor guy's intro post. Look at the case: Think of it like this. Scum will be making cases against people on day 1...they have to. I looked at all the cases people have made, and this one stank especially bad. It's built entirely around a hello post. It has a very artificial feel to it. Also, he just posted this: Townies always feel the pressure of the ticking clock. Half of our time being gone doesn't seem to trouble him. He hasn't really bothered to comment on what's been going on in the thread outside of his own reads. He's been on Mouldy Jeb's case as well. Here's some more recent(!) material: Confused? Me too. I think this dude has a chance at flipping scum. On June 15 2012 00:50 s0Lstice wrote: Some housekeeping stuff first.. I am removing alan133 from my scum list. The main thing that had me suspicious was his strong-arm defense, but everything following that has been fine. I like that he is holding himself accountable for his style, and I want to see what he can do when not under pressure. austin and suki have commented on crossfire99, and I have to say I agree. I was planning on wrighting a post similar to what suki has done. The cogent point is that he has long bouts of inactivity when he is both scum and town. He should get the same level of suspicion that every lurker gets, but nothing special beyond that I feel. His filter right now is pretty garbagey, and hard to get a read on. I wouldn't be upset if we lynched him, but I think we can do better. Here is better: HeavOnEarth. Nothing has happened to change my initial opinion on him for the better. In fact, him buddying up to sciberbia in his latest post makes him look worse. Go read my case if you missed it. I'm not the only one to see him as suspicious, so I think there is plenty of traction here. ##vote HeavOnEarth Then alan joins the fun with this + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 04:00 alan133 wrote: I see the current pressure are easing off from me. I also realize I has pretty much ignored everyone else except for rolf and suki. @HeavOnEarth His first few points seem disconnected. None of them relates to each other: From FoSing Golden for his opening post, + Show Spoiler + And I thought rofl@me and suki@trap was bad He also state that he is waiting for responses. Upon being debunked on Gold's read, he basically dismiss it similar the way suki has dismissed her case on trap, claiming they are trying to start conversation. In suki's case, this is still believable. Before her case there was no controversy, and very little to talk about. However, when Heave posted on Gold, there were already controversies + Show Spoiler + rolf@me suki@trap Very Suspicious Right now, I find Heav and MJ were the best lynch candidates, and HeavOnEarth appears to be more scummy ##unvote: Suki ##vote: HeavOnEarth I am off to bed, it is 3 am right here. I will get up in 4 hours so we can get a successful lynch. Another refresh reveals more post from crossfire. My opinion on him has not swayed. Next suki comes to the party + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 04:58 suki wrote: HeavOnEarth: Okay, something really really sticks out to me in Heavon's first post, and it's not about golden. It's this particular line: Above, I posted my opinions on Crossfire, where I had gone through pretty much his entire filter in his two previous games, and the big thing I noted was that Crossfire LURKED very hard in his first game as blue, and somewhat lurked in the second game as red. HeavOn clearly is talking about Crossfire's game as blue, 'He was a pretty talkative little townie'. This is clearly wrong. He continues his case against Crossfire later after sciberbia brings it up. This has already been labelled as suspicious. It's a big point against him that he waited until someone else pointed fingers at Crossfire, when he had so early established a read on Crossfire - a fairly in depth read as he had even looked at Crossfire's filters from previous games. The thing is, the case HeavOn makes against crossfire disregards the previous game filters. Crossfire, as mafia, was assertive actively pushed cases against other players. He also lurked quite a bit. HeavOn votes for Golden despite saying that his case against Golden is weak. He doesn't back off however, stating that the response was scummy and that the scummy thing about it was how golden was commenting on the time it would take to make his posts? Seems like a very strained argument to make. I see clear scum motivation in voting for golden. In my previous game as mafia, I harped on Miltonkram for his early vote against sciberbia. Even when my argument was convincingly rebutted, I continued to press my case against him finding any sort of scummy intent I could make up. Why? Because I didn't want to be wishy-washy. HeavOn's case against golden is that golden 'just feels off'. This makes Golden a 'solid lynch' to him. I'm out of time, but that's my insight into HeavOn. I feel that there can definitely be scum motivation behind his posts. I haven't had time to closely look at other people but for now HeavOn is clearly a scummier target than alan. ##unvote alan113 ##vote HeavOnEarth Those three I mentioned above all brought solid analysis and new thoughts on Heavon, so I feel confident in seeing them as town for right now. Then Milton (+ Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 04:59 Miltonkram wrote: Oops, slept in a bit later than I'd planned. s0Lstice, I'm inclined to agree with you. HeavOnEarth looks like the best lynch candidate. Everybody, I'd suggest you take a look at him. His filter is not particularly long, but I think there is enough scummy behavior there to warrant a vote. ##Vote: HeavOnEarth On June 15 2012 05:09 roflwaffles55 wrote: I noticed already that his play was scummy, however I felt like it was the easy way out, I was hoping to nail a more influential scum D1, but I guess that's just new player optimism... If he flips scum, I'm not sure what kind of information we're going to gain from it as his posts don't seem to link him to anyone.. and if he flips town then all we really know is that he was a poor townie. I'll go with the flow because he's fairly blatant with his scumminess (real word?) but I'd like to keep an eye on Crossfire, as well as keeping Mouldy Jeb in mind for a D2 lynch. ##unvote Crossfire99 ##vote HeavOnEarth I'm not sure if I'll be on tonight, I'll do my absolute best to be on in case there's a swing of opinion. On June 15 2012 06:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: in regards to HeavonEarth. In relation to my: a) knowing i'm town. b) Him trying to bus me one the grounds of "seems like a solid case". c) lacklustre contribution and no rebuttle to any arguments. i feel like he see's a bandwagon forming and jumps on straight away. #VOTE: HeavonEarth i still maintain a #FOS on MouldyJeb i still owe the group a comment on Crossfire99 but i honestly dont have time for it before work. On June 15 2012 02:44 roflwaffles55 wrote: I'm going to post as though all of these people are scum, and the impact they have a chance to make if they are left alive. I think it will give a different way of thinking about it. HeavOnEarth His play is quite suspicious and his accusations and suspicions lackluster at best. He could just as easily be an awful townie as scum. Overall he's been fairly ineffectual, but if he's hiding behind a mask of confusion and bad reads, he could be an annoyance as scum later on. I believe that the most lynchable potential scum right now would be Crossfire99. I understand that there are already votes on HeavOnEarth, but if he really is that incompetent at bringing cases to the table, as a scum, why would he try to post them? He is suspicious to me, but not as suspicious as Crossfire. Unless he responds to the accusations in a convincing and collected manner soon, I strongly believe that he should be lynched. ##vote Crossfire99 This is followed by sciberbia's vote + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 07:56 sciberbia wrote: My thoughts on HeavOnEarth: I was originally somewhat suspicious of him for throwing suspicion onto a handful of easy targets, and then becoming wishy/washy about it. He has since made me more suspicious with his response and attitude towards golden. First of all, he admits that his case was "pretty damn bad" and LOL's about it. I see this as slightly scummy. He is being ingratiating and agreeable, rather than firm, objective, and analytic. This is more typical of mafia than of townies. Next HeavOnEarth says that there were no other posts to provoke Golden with. The question I'm left asking myself is: why did HeavOnEarth feel that he had to attack Golden at all? He says it was strong play of him to "accuse lurkers of being scummy", but at the time of HeavOnEarth's accusation, golden didn't look lurky. Golden made 1 post in the first 4 hours of the game, and then HeavOnEarth accused him. 1 decent-sized post in the first 4 hours isn't lurky. Why was HeavOnEarth looking for a reason to "provoke him"? Finally, heavOnEarth refuses to back down from his suspicions of golden, and even ends up voting golden, but doesn't give any good reasons. He just says that golden's posting seems odd. Odd =/= scummy. It looks like he just arbitrarily picked a target to attack at the beginning and now won't back down. Overall, I think he has a good chance of being mafia and I'm happy with lynching him. ##Vote HeavOnEarth Then austin comes in and votes for me with this + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 08:28 austinmcc wrote: I think Heavon looks scummy. But his voting took off after he posted that he was going to be gone for auto repairs. And there's been very little pushback. I'm particularly worried by: (1) us going for the guy who basically said "Won't be around to defend myself," and (2) the lack of any pushback against him, when we had multiple targets recently. There could be some bussing going on, but we had a couple other juicy targets, and I wouldn't expect a bus in that situation. At the very least, my stance right now is that he doesn't look good, but the vast majority of the votes and comments on him seem to have occurred after he said he was leaving. I don't want to lynch him today based on that alone. See your comment towards him. Yes, his reads would help town. Yes, he ought to defend himself. But he may actually have been gone these last few hours, and I want to see his response before I lynch him. If it looks bad, there's D2. I think I'm saying the same thing over and over, so I'll knock it off. Apart from those basic statements, I'll note this. He DOES fit into a category of people trying to look like they're scumhunting but not. The 1 post suspicion of Golden, his comment on MJ - his chiming in on crossfire - + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 20:15 HeavOnEarth wrote: @Sciberbia in addition to what u said on crossfire, notice that he 1) only replies when called out. Every message he is replying to someone, not making his own points aside from his opening. 2) Every one of his posts feels like complete filler to me. he is trying to LOOK helpful, without actively contributing anything + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 02:06 Crossfire99 wrote: I agree that we need more information and we get that from pressuring people, but we need to do that smartly. If too many people are throwing around minor accusations all the time, it just confuses the town and allows mafia to sit back and laugh. That is what happened in NMM XIII when I was mafia. Ask austin, he was in it too. On June 14 2012 03:38 Crossfire99 wrote: Yeah Mouldy is acting really weird. He needs to get active to explain himself. Everything he has said so far lacks good reasoning. On June 14 2012 03:50 Crossfire99 wrote: I never said don't vote. I just said be careful about throwing your votes around willy-nilly under the premise that you are going to remove them later. I never even said don't do that. I just don't want someone sticking someone else with a vote for flimsy reasons that ends up sealing a lynch because they couldn't get back in time to change it. That was the entire point of those two sentences. As for the mention of the scum tactic, I'm just saying that sometimes scum can not take part in big discussions later in the day by voting early and then disappearing. I'm just trying to help roflwaffle, by trying to get him to think about taking his vote seriously and having good reasons for whatever he does. If no one holds anyone accountable mafia can just breeze on by. 3) notice his defensive, and meek tone; in addition to his low post count. he's obviously afraid to attract attention to himself 4) he was lurking for a LONGGG time before he finally decided to post . What u thought we all forgot about that? That leaves me with cross. ##Vote: Crossfire99 What I'd ask of everyone is to show me where Crossfire has done any scumhunting. He posted a little, dropped off the face of the earth, came back, responded to everyone's comments towards him, but never even gave us a single read throughout the day. Nobody looked scummy, because he really just didn't comment on ANYONE. I'm confused as to how that can be towny behavior, and he dropped in, spent time responding to all these people, but spent 0 characters doing any kind of hunting himself. Lurking is bad, but you can lurk and contribute when you pop up. HeavOnEarth didn't contribute when he came back. Crossfire didn't contribute when he came back, except addressing our concerns about him. Between the timing of the votes on HeavOn and the lack of any push on him, I'd rather go with Crossfire today. Trackdoor then comes in and votes last with this + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 08:52 trackd00r wrote: I was checking Heaven's filter. I must admint that he looks suspicious at this stage of the game. I was expecting from him a more detailed analysis of his play, since he stated that he has more experience in playing mafia. I dislike the fact that he took the most easy target to pressure (golden), instead of trying to outline the other players, He also adds some points against CF, but isn't really big of a deal. Although I share some suspicions with him, I see that he is not contributing at the same level as the rest of us are. I don't really think that it will be that much of a loss if he flips town. If that is the case, he have a whole post history behind us too see who bandwagoned and who tried to hunt down mafia As I don't want a NL, I'll change my vote to heaven. ##Unvote: O.Golden_ne ##Vote: HeavOnEarth I think that leaves everyone except for me and Heavon. I won't even bother quoting Heavon. He just went with a weak vote on Golden and then got lynched. And I missed the lynch for the reasons stated above. Ok. That's all the time I have for now (I should have gone to bed an hour and a half ago, but whatever). I don't know if I'll be back in time before the night ends to post some more thoughts, so consider this my contribution for now. If I survive the lynch, I'll look into roflwaffle's filter and get a better read on him. I encourage you all to do the same and let me know what you think whether you agree or disagree. | ||
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