/in
Also, substitute this for your own
comment about how much fun this game will be
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
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/in Also, substitute this for your own comment about how much fun this game will be | ||
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On June 16 2012 20:57 Drazerk wrote: Policy 2 minute shot on both of you? Pffft, I am NEVER trusting you again! | ||
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And that is just two-face. Double that up and you have a serious villain on your hands. Forget about Drazerk. He's just a Crazed Neutral Balrog Fool from the Wiener Confederation. We can deal with him later. | ||
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On June 17 2012 02:34 Zephirdd wrote: "OHHHH do we get to wear cool suits?" The same annoying thing asked. "No" I just wanted to point out that I was that annoying thing... and the box lied. I have a cool suit and will post photos for anybody crazy enough to ask. Also, if House Chezinu is promoting VE they are clearly not town. ##nuke: House Chezinu | ||
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On June 17 2012 02:44 HiroPro wrote: Correction: All applications must be submitted to the Bastard Moderators via PM with the subject "House Chezinu, 5th Party Application". I strongly urge everybody to spam the mods with crap like this. PS. 6th party House "HAHA NOT CHEZINU BIATCHES" is now also accepting applications. Benefits are the same as for joining House Chezinu and the application process is similar. Please send Zephirdd a PM with the subject "House HAHA NOT CHEZINU BIATCHES, 6th party Application", containing a long wall of text cleverly written so the first letter of each sentence spells "prince of bell air". PPS. The board of directors of House "HAHA NOT CHEZINU BIATCHES" is not responsible for any actions of its potential members and wants to excuse itself to Zephirdd and other mods for any potential harm come from this post. | ||
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I have no strange wincon requiring me to keep people alive, and/or ensure people are dead (other than all anti-town people of course), as was the case in Bastard Mafia I. My wincon is completely normal. That said, I am hereby declaring myself at war with House Chezinu. I think House Chezinu has some distinctive anti-town elements to it and we should eradicate it from the face of the earth. | ||
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On June 17 2012 04:13 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote: On June 17 2012 03:58 MajuGarzett wrote: On June 17 2012 03:55 HiroPro wrote: On June 17 2012 03:52 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 17 2012 03:29 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 03:18 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 17 2012 02:41 HiroPro wrote: House Chezinu, 5th Party Recruitment Welcome everyone. This is the Director of Recruitment at House Chezinu speaking. Due to recent personnel shortages, we are now conducting a recruitment drive. Anyone who is a player in this game may join (excepting any and all self-identified House Chezinu enemies). To complete your application, you must go through three simple steps.
2. Claim any and all powers, abilities, restrictions, or requirements that you possess 3. Claim your win condition All members of House Chezinu must also swear loyalty to all board members, whose names (excepting for mine) will be revealed at a later time. Remember, the benefits are numerous, the downsides non-existent. Join House Chezinu, 5th Party and reap the rewards immediately. All applications must be submitted by Sunday, Jun 17 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). What exactly are the benefits of House Chezinu? House Chezinu supports its own at all times, especially at times of lynching. In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members). If all it does is support members in lynches is there really any difference between joining House Chezinu and forming an alliance? In times of plenty, members of House Chezinu, 5th Party will receive monetary compensation. Access to the Knowledge Archives is also permitted (with certain information restricted to board members). Additionally, alliance support is not absolute. It is merely a recognizance of no open hostilities between House Chezinu, 5th Party and said allied party. Who are the board members other than yourself? What are the knowledge archives? If House Chezinu wants members it should release all pertinent information. If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that. By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. Allied Party KharadBanar, are you indicating that you believe MajuGarzett to be a member of the mafia? Also, the board members of House Chezinu, 5th Party are not scum. How do you know that and why should we believe you? | ||
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@HiroPro: ignoring me is dumb. I have legitimate concerns about you and House Chezinu and I feel your play is screwing up this game in a way that can only benefit scum (or, as the mods are phrasing it, anti-town). You claim 5th party, which almost by definition is not town. You are also claiming a mysterious board of directors who you are unwilling to talk about, yet are convinced are town. I have a far simpler solution: Chezinu is scum and the board of directors is whoever else is chatting to Hiro in ScumQT. Just another question: how many directors are there on your so-called board of directors? | ||
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On June 17 2012 04:43 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:41 Acrofales wrote: Yo Drazerk, want to roleclaim in the thread? I don't trust you on basic principle and you're bound to claim some outrageously ridiculous role. I want to see it before I decide whether you're worth lynching over House Chezinu. @HiroPro: ignoring me is dumb. I have legitimate concerns about you and House Chezinu and I feel your play is screwing up this game in a way that can only benefit scum (or, as the mods are phrasing it, anti-town). You claim 5th party, which almost by definition is not town. You are also claiming a mysterious board of directors who you are unwilling to talk about, yet are convinced are town. I have a far simpler solution: Chezinu is scum and the board of directors is whoever else is chatting to Hiro in ScumQT. Just another question: how many directors are there on your so-called board of directors? You post slow So do you, now answer the question. And yes, I read where you said you didn't read your role PM. I don't believe it. | ||
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On June 17 2012 04:45 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:45 Acrofales wrote: On June 17 2012 04:43 Drazerk wrote: On June 17 2012 04:41 Acrofales wrote: Yo Drazerk, want to roleclaim in the thread? I don't trust you on basic principle and you're bound to claim some outrageously ridiculous role. I want to see it before I decide whether you're worth lynching over House Chezinu. @HiroPro: ignoring me is dumb. I have legitimate concerns about you and House Chezinu and I feel your play is screwing up this game in a way that can only benefit scum (or, as the mods are phrasing it, anti-town). You claim 5th party, which almost by definition is not town. You are also claiming a mysterious board of directors who you are unwilling to talk about, yet are convinced are town. I have a far simpler solution: Chezinu is scum and the board of directors is whoever else is chatting to Hiro in ScumQT. Just another question: how many directors are there on your so-called board of directors? You post slow So do you, now answer the question. And yes, I read where you said you didn't read your role PM. I don't believe it. Meh I play by my own rules anyway you should know this Yeah, all the more reason not to trust you! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... yeah, you're scum until you flip otherwise. | ||
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On June 17 2012 04:48 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:43 talismania wrote: HiroPro What is your win condition? Would me or anyone else joining your House of Chezinu help that win condition? If so, how? If not, then why are you asking people to join? My win condition is to win when all anti-town forces are eliminated. Does me joining your House help that? Why or why not? I don't think we can get much information out of The HOUSE anyway, for the aforementioned reasons (their only advantage is information, so they're not going to give it to us for free). This in turn leads me to the opinion that Drazerk is very much right in ignoring The HOUSE for now. I will do so from now on (I'll not play against HiroPro or his faction since we are allies, but I'm not going to mention them too much in my posting) and I believe it is wise for you to do the same. Hmmm, can you get any more wishywashy than this? Drazerk has come to the conclusion, as have I, that Chezinu is most probably some flavour of scum. Anything to say on that account? Or are you happy to stay "allied" to them, which sounds an awful lot like "I don't want to have an opinion"... aka "I'm scum posting filler posts!!!" | ||
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On June 17 2012 05:09 FourFace wrote: We policy lynch everyone who said his win condition is to eliminate all anti-town players and those who will continue to say it or ask about win condition. And remember to drink some alcoholic beverage every time you read House what's its name. I repeat: On June 16 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote: Policy lynch 4F for suggesting bad policies! | ||
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On June 17 2012 05:31 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 05:28 MajuGarzett wrote: On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote: On June 17 2012 05:20 talismania wrote: On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote: [...] By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.) [...] What? So now that you've magically allied - who has been eliminated from "the equation"? If you're eliminating both town and scum by allying, how does that help your stated win condition? Why would you want to eliminate "both town and scum" from the players you are "concentrating on studying" in order to discern their alignment? Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE. I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members. When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted. As a mere ally of THE HOUSE do you even get to know who the house members are? I was under the impression that THE HOUSE just wouldn't try to kill you. I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it. If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs. Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them. So in actual fact, what you're doing is accepting HiroPro making anybody he likes "untouchable" for you, in return for limited immunity. Lol, are you a serial killer or wtf?! Drazerk: I oppose lynching Nisani. I want to lynch KB. | ||
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I don't want to get into details at night, but there's some other weird stuff that we should talk about during the day. | ||
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On June 17 2012 06:50 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 06:23 Acrofales wrote: I'm not really convinced we found any scum yet. KB seems more 3rd party than scum, but he definitely doesn't sound townie. I haven't yet made up my mind on whether House Chezinu is neutral or anti-town. As Talismania pointed out, it is rather strange that HiroPro is not afraid of getting shot, so friendship with scum is likely. I don't want to get into details at night, but there's some other weird stuff that we should talk about during the day. Curious that you know you're going to survive the night. This was considered a "scumslip" that killed my scumbuddy toad in Pick Your Poison. In case you are town as you've said: post these details/weird stuff right on the deadline. I don't feel like it. If I'm alive tomorrow we can talk about it, if not then you'll know I'm town because of my flip. @HiroPro: what is this money you're talking about? I know nothing about it. | ||
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On June 17 2012 07:12 talismania wrote: I have some setup info in my role PM that I can't figure out why I shouldn't share: (1) There is a "King" (2) There is a "Monarchist Activist" (3) Several others of you know there's a Monarchist Activist, and some of you want to kill him. (so there's a wincon involving the death of the Monarchist Activist I'm guessing). Anyone have anything else? That was the weird stuff I was talking about that I didn't really want to speak of at night. | ||
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Insofar as I understand there is no king "yet", but the monarchist activist will make someone king at some point. | ||
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On June 17 2012 07:14 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 07:11 Acrofales wrote: On June 17 2012 06:50 talismania wrote: On June 17 2012 06:23 Acrofales wrote: I'm not really convinced we found any scum yet. KB seems more 3rd party than scum, but he definitely doesn't sound townie. I haven't yet made up my mind on whether House Chezinu is neutral or anti-town. As Talismania pointed out, it is rather strange that HiroPro is not afraid of getting shot, so friendship with scum is likely. I don't want to get into details at night, but there's some other weird stuff that we should talk about during the day. Curious that you know you're going to survive the night. This was considered a "scumslip" that killed my scumbuddy toad in Pick Your Poison. In case you are town as you've said: post these details/weird stuff right on the deadline. I don't feel like it. If I'm alive tomorrow we can talk about it, if not then you'll know I'm town because of my flip. @HiroPro: what is this money you're talking about? I know nothing about it. Money lets you buy stuff and change rules. If you have some, you should send it to HiroPro, Director of Recruitment/Funding for House Chezinu, 5th Party. This game has rules? What rules? What does money change about them? | ||
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In fact, I'm going to bed. | ||
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On June 17 2012 14:06 EchelonTee wrote: Isn't House Chezinu that 5th party mason circle from Aperture Mafia? Which means they are the good guys? As far as I know they were an actual scum faction before that. House Chezinu has been used for various different purposes in TL Mafia history, but I have not been around long enough to be able to say what its various uses have been. In any case, Chezinu being town in Aperture says nothing about their alignment in this game: it's a bastard game and equating roles with alignment is a bad idea. So yeah, I don't trust House Chezinu and want more information about them. | ||
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On June 17 2012 22:55 EchelonTee wrote: I'm not feeling KB quite yet, I'd say 201 is a better lynch. Thoughts? Why? I'm not sold on a KB lynch... mainly because it's NIGHT, I don't see much of a reason to lynch Nisani except for his alliance with House Chezinu. Plenty of reason, but if that's what we're lynching for, KB allied AND gave a shitty scum-backpedalling explanation for why he did it. | ||
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On June 17 2012 22:58 EchelonTee wrote: well, I'm not sending my alignment to anyone as an application or whatever the hell, so if that's the actual way to join, then I'm not joining. If it's a mason circle, I want to be part of it. Simple as that. Call me scum for that if you want, I want more info on this whole she-bang. I also want more info. Hiro has promised to post more info at the day post. Why would you join before then? | ||
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On June 17 2012 23:45 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 22:47 Drazerk wrote: You're aware the mason circle in aperture was a cult right? However, house chezinu was not a cult. I don't see why you're so worried about this being a cult. Announcing their existence publicly would make no sense whatsoever, IMO. The same holds for a mason circle: why claim at night? (and no, I don't buy the "it's mandatory" cop-out. Seen too many fake posting restrictions and other such shenanigans) All I get from House Chezinu is extreme weirdness. Weirdness is stuff towns generally deal badly with. Hence House Chezinu is anti-town. They don't need to be a cult to be a crappy anti-town thing. HiroPro had better clarify what the fuck he's up to. | ||
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On June 18 2012 00:50 Drazerk wrote: Oh and that my role will be changed at some point during the game because mods love doing that to me >.> Stop working yourself into the pity role. You're scum and you know it. | ||
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On June 18 2012 01:04 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 01:02 Acrofales wrote: On June 18 2012 00:50 Drazerk wrote: Oh and that my role will be changed at some point during the game because mods love doing that to me >.> Stop working yourself into the pity role. You're scum and you know it. Maybe... who knows You do. | ||
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On June 18 2012 02:27 BioSC wrote: Is it just me, or did the bastard voting thread say "votes before and after the deadline don't count"? *Phoenix Wright Point* I spy a conundrum! You're right. I think what Zephirdd is trying to say is that votes don't count. I think Forumite may have gone wild with the part of Holy Roman where blue roles didn't have voting power (but did have to voice their vote). Hopefully they daypost will clarify what the hell is going on. | ||
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That said, I have some specific problems that I want clarified! BioSC: On June 17 2012 04:39 BioSC wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:28 Drazerk wrote: From this point on I am now ignoring any post that has anything to do with House Chezinu I advice everyone else does the same so we can play a normal game If the last Bastard game was any indication, this will be a bit stranger than a normal game. Speaking of this House Chezinu... You "guys" want a lot for giving not so much. Are you a mason group? Can you recruit? I'm staying cautiously positive atm. Unless you guys have cupcakes to offer, then I may change my stance =D This is a non-opinion wrapped in fancy text. Now that HiroPro has been posting a bit more, what do you think of Chezinu? What do you think of KB and Nisani's "alliance" with them? What do you think of Drazerk and my stances versus them? Dropbear: On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote: On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote: Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote: If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that. By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB? Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself: I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates. This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out. I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do. Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight. Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead. Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her? Did I miss something? What does HiroPro have to do with the king? Did he say something I missed? What is your opinion on Chezinu? So far you've posted a lot of speculation about stuff and a light accusation of KB being "slightly off". Do you still have that opinion? Who do you think we should lynch D1? Run out of time. KB and Nisani, I think both of you are scum. | ||
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Now going to watch the match. GO HOLLAND!!!! | ||
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Anyway. Lets find some scum. Someone asked about the monarchist activist/king thingy: I have said everything I know about the mechanic. I would really like to know who was made king. | ||
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And throw Nisani in there too: he did the same alliance crap build, transferring into lurking. | ||
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On June 18 2012 00:44 FourFace wrote: AARrrRHhHH!! There's just nothing to talk about until the night ends. Talismania gave his 2 cents regarding the setup and was the first and only one to come out of the closet regarding King, Monarchist Activist, killing the Monarchist Activist and possible setup. My question is why doesn't the opening game post have anything to do with this medieval shiz? Day started. Anything to say? | ||
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On June 17 2012 07:37 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 07:12 talismania wrote: I have some setup info in my role PM that I can't figure out why I shouldn't share: (1) There is a "King" (2) There is a "Monarchist Activist" (3) Several others of you know there's a Monarchist Activist, and some of you want to kill him. (so there's a wincon involving the death of the Monarchist Activist I'm guessing). Anyone have anything else? ______ My random setup speculation: with only 15 players one mafia team of 3 + a SK role is possible but not terribly likely. Too quick of a lylo. I think it's more likely that there's 2 anti-town teams of 2 players each with one kp apiece. Then at least 2 different kinds of third parties, and at least 5-6 town players. Probably worth sharing, thanks for the info. I assume this is some sort of kingmaker + assassins scenario, in which case we need to be a bit careful. It would be pretty shit to have a situation where we lose if person x dies Took me a while, but I found this post again. Can you explain a bit more what you meant with this? My role pm pretty much rules the "everybody loses if person X dies" scenario out, but the rest resonates well with my role pm. | ||
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@Deconduo: how does your setup make sense with people, including myself, having a regular town win condition? @Talismania: I guess you are claiming you did not get hit and have not been made king? | ||
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On June 18 2012 06:26 Nisani201 wrote: I'm on my phone so i can't do much right now, but i don't believe talis's claim. Makes it look like he's contributing when really he's just "forcing" everyone else to contribute for him. I agree. However, I want to see how he uses his claimed power. If he doesn't use it, I vote we lynch the crap out of him. | ||
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On June 18 2012 06:35 FourFace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 06:34 Acrofales wrote: On June 18 2012 06:26 Nisani201 wrote: I'm on my phone so i can't do much right now, but i don't believe talis's claim. Makes it look like he's contributing when really he's just "forcing" everyone else to contribute for him. I agree. However, I want to see how he uses his claimed power. If he doesn't use it, I vote we lynch the crap out of him. Why?! His intentions seem noble. Can you think of anything else that's incriminating him? Woah there cowboy, don't get ahead of yourself. I actually believe Talismania and think he's a (townie) dayvig. However, hypothetical: Talismania is scum and claims dayvig. He "forces" townies to make cases, most probably on each other, early in D1. He then backpedals with an "I was lying, and am not a dayvig". He then claims he got everybody to contribute with this lie. I liked HiroPro's play: it served its purpose and got people posting during the night. On D1 town people should be active and posting their thoughts in any case, so a false dayvig claim serves no real town purpose. A truthful dayvig claim seems fine, though. So as long as he ends up shooting someone he'll stay on my list of townish people. | ||
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There is a motive behind lying, always, and I have seen too many situations in which a townie lying was a good thing for town. However, the motive needs to be evaluated. In this case, a false dayvig claim false on the scum side of the line. | ||
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On June 18 2012 06:44 FourFace wrote: Well how would you have done that anyway.. You wouldn't have known who tried to join in the first place (probably no one, evidently) but how exactly would you have kept the illusion of House Chezinu alive without any sort of palpable change like a mason circle or host confirmation or anything? I'm not saying you weren't scumhunting.. I'm not even saying you're anti-town. I just think you lied to us at least twice, that's all. Stop trying to derail discussion. This is pointless hypothetical and IF you want to discuss it, save it for postgame. I'd rather hear what HiroPro and you have to say about the current game situation! | ||
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On June 18 2012 06:56 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote: On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote: Some other points to make: If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have. I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. EBWOP If someone other than the King knows what powers the King gets, and feels safe about claiming so (I guess there's people who want to kill the Monarchist Activist too), that would be nice to know; just don't reveal who it actually is so our King doesn't die straight away. My role pm explicitly mentions people who want to harm the MA, so I definitely don't want him to claim. You also brought up a good point: we don't have enough info on how this setup works, so the king not claiming is probably the safer option. At the very least until D2. If the king changes, then the D1 king should claim his role and abilities on D2. | ||
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On June 18 2012 07:02 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote: On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote: Some other points to make: If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have. I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. How do we know that the king isn't a dictator who wants to murder us all and that the assassins are the good guys? I thought about that, but then my role pm doesn't make sense. | ||
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On June 18 2012 07:06 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 07:03 Acrofales wrote: On June 18 2012 07:02 Drazerk wrote: On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote: On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote: Some other points to make: If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have. I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. How do we know that the king isn't a dictator who wants to murder us all and that the assassins are the good guys? I thought about that, but then my role pm doesn't make sense. Na it can still make sense How did you read my role pm? | ||
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On June 18 2012 07:19 Nisani201 wrote: I think the source of a lot of confusion surrounding the monarch stuff is because talis/acro aren't making good distinctions between what is fact (established in the role pm) and what is speculation. Could you two be more specific? I can't disclose more than I have said already without claiming in full, which is not something I think would be a good idea at this point in the game. I should be ready to claim in full tomorrow. All I know is that there is a monarchist activist, who can make a king. The way my role pm is worded, it seems very likely that the MA can make a king multiple times throughout the game. The way my role pm is worded, it seems unlikely that the MA is scum. However, it is a bastard game, so I might be getting trolled in this. It just seems unlikely. | ||
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There's some things I like, and some things I don't. Among the primary things I don't like is DropBear. I think he's scum masquerading as a cute koala. I hinted at the fact that I didn't much like this koala's filter during the night, and there's something equally off with his day posting. What it specifically looks like, is that he's blending. + Show Spoiler [My spidey senses started tingling] + On June 17 2012 04:00 DropBear wrote: And I said baby... doo doo... it's 3am I must be lonely... doo doo Hello all! I am fantabulously confused already. HiroPro I regretfully must pass on your offer for the time being, as you speak of fellow board members who remain undisclosed and speak of supporting members at lynch time regardless of their suspected alignment. Please don't be offended, it's not that I don't trust you, it's that I don't trust you YET. Plus it's hard to trust your associates when I don't know who they are Just out of interest, what did your promotion of VisceraEyes achieve? Was he originally part of your group or did he join up after your recruitment announcement? This was DropBear's first post in the game. Specifically note the part that I bolded red. This is someone who is trying to fly under the radar. He then continues with two questions about VE, which was the only part of the Chezinu deal we could be sure of was trolling during the night (VE isn't and never was in the game). This whole post reads to me like: + Show Spoiler [ jedi scum] + So... we continue through his filter. There's more questions like the VE one: On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote: Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead. Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her? This seems to be just not paying attention to the thread. As I said at night, HiroPro never actually mentioned the king. This post also came after I said that my role pm said the MA is a kingmaker. I am not sure what to think of this, but town usually reads the thread, and individual posts better than scum: they are scumhunting, while scum (thinks they) can get away with browsing the thread and commenting on trending topics. Talking about trending topics: + Show Spoiler + On June 18 2012 09:54 DropBear wrote: I want KB dead. Let's geddim. He is running scared and trying desperately to appear helpful but not actually saying anything. On June 18 2012 09:57 DropBear wrote: Can you shoot KB talismania? On June 18 2012 10:23 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 10:19 Nisani201 wrote: I think the case is horrible. Could be a bus, not sure because I'm null on KB at the moment. He takes out a lot of context from KB's actions, and he doesn't point out why points 1&2 are scummy. Context? Isn't context everything? Wtf does this even mean? Alright talismania how bout you shoot Nisani instead? We can hang KB and shoot Nisani. I have not yet seen DropBear state why he thinks KB is scum, but he's incredibly trigger happy! He makes it clear that he wants KB DEAD. Why exactly? Well, that nobody can know from reading his filter. He has this post: + Show Spoiler [A koala's suspicions] + On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote: Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote: If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that. By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB? This post is nice, and it came at a time when we were just figuring out the implications of KB (and Nisani)'s alliance deal with Chezinu. I don't mind this post at all, but this is not a reason to want KB dead. I want to kill scum, and I want to reason out why someone is scum. There is no reasoning in our vicious koala's posts. There is a light accusation, which at daybreak turned into "MURDER HIM". This just doesn't sit well with me, especially as I am leaning increasingly towards some third party role for KB, which may or may not be anti-town, but is probably not (pure) scum. The reason people just want to whip up a bandwagon (or direct a dayvig) without proper reasoning is usually because they're scum and the target is not on their scumteam. They don't get caught in awkward reasoning in actual cases after the fact, but can point to how they wanted that person dead for easy town credit if he flips red or 3P. All of this together points to DropBear being a scum in koala clothing. Other comments Oh, and for the record, this post would've been made regardless of Talismania and he can go stuff his "oooh, people are making good cases so will not get shot" up his ass. I have made decent cases as scum too and it is really easy in a game like this where there's quite probably 3rd party floating around too. Talsimania should focus less on his dayvig plan and more on scumhunting. When he finds scum (*hint* it's dropbear) he should shoot, not wait for someone too be too busy or lazy to post a case. Drazerk: I don't like you, you're trolling and I don't trust you at all. You're playing like in Holy Roman (without the rhyming restriction) and if I were a dayvig I would probably shoot you just to get rid of that nagging doubt in the back of my head. KB: just because I don't like DropBear doesn't mean I like you. Your posts are terrible and I don't think you're town. I would be onboard a KB lynch if DropBear gets shot. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [fixed jedi scum] + | ||
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On June 18 2012 20:03 DropBear wrote: Lol Acrofales that first post started off with the lyrics from the matchbox 20 song 3am because it was 3am my time. I was saying that I don't want to join house Chezinu, whats the problem there? I very specifically took a stance against joining, how is that blending? No shit Hiro never mentioned the King. I thought his recruitment drive thing was cos he was allied with the king and was asking him if it was true. You don't mind my post as to saying why I find KB suspicious, but then you don't think its a reason to want him dead? That's a paradox. You can't like my reasoning and then tell me its bad reasoning. I want KB dead and I stand by that. You have omitted several of my posts that also indicate that I don't trust him. This case seems poorly thought out man. I wouldn't go so far as to say manufactured, but poorly thought out. If you don't think KB is town, why would you not want him dead as well? I still don't understand how you ever got a link between Hiro and the king... it makes no sense. You didn't "very specifically take a stance against Chezinu", you said you didn't trust them "yet", which is about the same as saying nothing. Drazerk took a stance against Chezinu. I took a stance against Chezinu. Talismania made his opinon on Chezinu clear (saying he wanted more info before considering them). Nisani and KB also had a clear stance on Chezinu. You just blended, making a post that can be interpreted either way. The same is your early pressure on KB: at the time it was good. It was a correctly voiced suspicion of some suspicious shit. However, he answered your suspicions. Your only real post about KB since then was "I want him dead". I guess when you say you've posted "other stuff on KB" indicating you don't trust him, you are referring to this: On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote: On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote: Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote: If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that. By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB? Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself: I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates. This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out. I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do. Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight. + Show Spoiler [Other stuff] + Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead. Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her? You still haven't actually given a reason to kill him. Which comes together with my final answer to you: why do you think KharadBanar is scum. I think he's not town. I am not yet sure he's anti-town and don't find his behaviour actually scummy... it seems far more likely that he's a survivor or some other non-helpful third party. My priorities are on finding and killing scum. So far, you're still my favourite target and this defense of yours is unconvincing. I don't mind being wrong, though. How about you tell me why KB is scum and should die. | ||
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On June 18 2012 23:29 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 19:25 Acrofales wrote: as I am leaning increasingly towards some third party role for KB, which may or may not be anti-town, but is probably not (pure) scum. In this sort of game, I want to kill 3rd party even more, given that to win we have to remove all anti-town elements, which 3rd party/SK definitely falls under. For all we know, there might not even be "pure" scum in this game. Well, SK is pure scum. You could see him as a second scum faction with only 1 person on it However, I doubt this game has a SK: he would've shot N0 and nobody has claimed being hit. What I meant with not-town, but not anti-town 3rd party was more like a survivor. Their wincon can line up with town's quite well and I wouldn't consider them anti-town off the bat. What redeams KB slightly for his N0 dodgyness is this post: On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote: Some other points to make: If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have. I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. This is a very good point, and if the setup speculation that people are out to kill the king is right, then it is a good thing to point out. I don't think it's enough, but if his wincon is not aligned with town, and instead he has to kill the king and/or MA, I don't think he would've made this post when he made it. That leaves scum, but I don't see a scum motive in his N0 play. There is no real reason for scum to take any kind of active PUBIC stance regarding House Chezinu until a lot more is known about it. There's plenty of reason to try to infiltrate it, but that was not what KB was doing. I will have to relook over his filter, because there's something that is off about his posting (and I want to compare his play here to the Newbie game we were in together), but the cases against him so far don't convince me that he is scum. That leaves some strange 3rd party, and we need more setup info to speculate on whether killing 3rd parties is useful. Other than that, I agree he is very dodgy. His case on Hyaach is feeble: it's basically taking the case against him and saying "look, this guy also played terribly!" | ||
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On June 18 2012 23:55 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 21:34 strongandbig wrote: On June 18 2012 15:06 Drazerk wrote: S+B how is that a real case? you're using evidence we know now to incriminate past beliefs which seems pretty questionable to me but i'll give you a break as my play style leads to myself being an easy band wagon the same way kenpachi is. Also with Talismania forcing everyone to make a case except himself its bad cases like this that need to be looked at and questioned as I just got a huge third party vibe from S+B who just wants to survive. The only new information we gained is that you are wrong about the cult thing. That's not at all the center point of my case. Trying to shut down discussion is like the main mafia agenda bro. You were trying to get people to stop talking about chezinu before we had any idea whether it was pro town or not. And seriously? You're saying you're like Kenpachi? Drazerk, you're not kenpachi. He gets away with posting trolling and content less one-liners because it's all he ever does and he doesn't give a fuck about the game most of the time. You are capable of being much more helpful than that. Plus, you actually care about the game. What I see from you this game is a pattern of trying to avoid being the subject of scrutiny. "I'm going to die soon" "I'm going on a tunnelling spree against this chezinu thing trololo" "I'm an easy bandwagon because I play like kenpachi" "Ignore Me!!!" If you really are town, then stop trying to play like Kenpachi. Your response to my case makes me think you are even scummier, with the "I'm an easy bandwagon like kenpachi" thing, but at least the post itself was more than one line and contained some actual reasoning. Post more like that, except not scummy. and as for your third party accusation, that also fits into the pattern of slipperiness. Just because in the last game there was a lot of third party, it makes "your case is bad, you must be third party" an easy thing to throw around. The fact that you're trying to switch focus from your alignment to mine does not make you look any better. You have a quote from me in your signature -Town fuck up. Scum do not. Scum WANT discussion. They are not going to be wishy washy they have their game plan worked out from the first hour and that is how they are going to play. I am going to die soon? - 5th party against me and a day vigi I have no intention of pleasing. People who ignore me burn or it you should know this by now. 1 line posts are perfectly fine and probably more of a town behaviour as it means quick irrational posting rather than carefully laid out plans. This is a bastard game I am going to throw out every possibility there is And yes I still think you are third party for submitted to tali's demands Really Drazerk. YOU are saying this of all people? Do you really want me to link to Holy Roman, with your infinite amount of senseless one-liners? Maybe you fucked up in there somewhere, but you managed to make yourself so inoccuous that you flew under the radar until it was basically too late. Your strategy was basically exactly the same that game as it has been so far this game... and you're using that strategy as an example of pro-town play?! The mind boggles. PS. I don't know what your town meta looks like... | ||
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Why is BioSC scum? Why do you think FF made a case on ET if they are scum together? Early D1 bus? Or are you trying to say either one could be scum and you don't know which? | ||
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##unvote ##vote Drazerk | ||
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On June 19 2012 03:15 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 03:14 Acrofales wrote: That you haven't read your role pm is about as true as that you had to sheep my vote in Holy Roman. I really dislike the way you're playing and you are definitely not helping town with it. ##unvote ##vote Drazerk You keep mentioning holy roman Read all my games Realize what meta is going to do for you Point me to a recent, relevant, game in which you were town. I have read WaW2 and you played very differently. For one, you were verbose and not posting irritating 1-liners. I have read Aperture, but you weren't town and were killed D1. So yeah, start pointing. Also, lets assume you're telling the truth and you haven't read your role PM. We know you're not the MA, because a king was chosen. If we assume the MA is town, that makes you by far the best option for a RNG policy lynch, because the odds of you being town are less than for anybody else. Given that you are ensuring that any read on you is about as useful as a RNG policy lynch on you would be, this is an excellent choice for us D1! Added bonus: we get rid of a confirmed troll, who is clearly not intending to contribute this game. | ||
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On June 19 2012 04:09 talismania wrote: People who should I shoot: Drazerk strongandbig Nisani201 deconduo FourFace ? Out of those? Drazerk or Nisani. Why aren't DropBear or Maju on your list? I will catch up to the rest of the thread a bit now. | ||
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On June 19 2012 03:27 Drazerk wrote: Well i'm never going to change my play style any time soon which is the mark of a good meta - one that is 100% the same as both scum and town Tell that to VE... or bluelightz, for that matter. | ||
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On June 19 2012 03:33 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 03:22 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 03:15 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 03:14 Acrofales wrote: That you haven't read your role pm is about as true as that you had to sheep my vote in Holy Roman. I really dislike the way you're playing and you are definitely not helping town with it. ##unvote ##vote Drazerk You keep mentioning holy roman Read all my games Realize what meta is going to do for you Point me to a recent, relevant, game in which you were town. I have read WaW2 and you played very differently. For one, you were verbose and not posting irritating 1-liners. I have read Aperture, but you weren't town and were killed D1. So yeah, start pointing. Also, lets assume you're telling the truth and you haven't read your role PM. We know you're not the MA, because a king was chosen. If we assume the MA is town, that makes you by far the best option for a RNG policy lynch, because the odds of you being town are less than for anybody else. Given that you are ensuring that any read on you is about as useful as a RNG policy lynch on you would be, this is an excellent choice for us D1! Added bonus: we get rid of a confirmed troll, who is clearly not intending to contribute this game. We lynch people who are scum. Drazerk may be a troll but I agree with most of his reads, and he is clearly reading and giving out his opinions. Wait. What reads? You mean this: On June 19 2012 02:16 Drazerk wrote: Scum ET DB FF BSC (KB) Third party S+B Maju 201 (KB) Null Acro Hiro Dec xsksc Hyaach This is not reads, this is looking through the thread and having a modicum of skill in picking up who looks scummy and who doesn't. This kind of post is a dime a dozen for scum. Other than that, what reads are you referring to? | ||
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On June 19 2012 03:39 HiroPro wrote: I made the case on Maju lol. I've read his filter; but he responded okay to me, and I think it's more likely that he's a survivor than scum. And we played together in MTG. That's not the way you're playing this game. I have no idea how Maju plays as town, but his defense to you was not decent. It gave a rather thin explanation for why he fired off questions at night, but he failed to do anything useful. Maju is looking scummy to me. | ||
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On June 19 2012 04:46 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 04:41 EchelonTee wrote: I don't know whether he's scum or survivor. Usually, I just lynch scummy people when I see them. That a bad playstyle? When you're not explaining anything, when you refuse to make proper reads, when you advocate scum positions, when you lightly defend yourself without saying anything, I call that being scum. Because this is clearly not the way you play as town. But Maju did all of those (except really advocate scum positions... he didn't make enough posts to do that), yet you're saying he's survivor. How does that work? | ||
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On June 19 2012 05:21 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you want me to claim? I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives. It's ok I guess I don't expect you to claim. But what's this extra win extra loss stuff? I don't see how you can extra lose. Can you give us a hint as to your various wincons? I can extra lose too. I will not go into any details. | ||
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On June 19 2012 05:51 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:49 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 05:21 talismania wrote: On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you want me to claim? I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives. It's ok I guess I don't expect you to claim. But what's this extra win extra loss stuff? I don't see how you can extra lose. Can you give us a hint as to your various wincons? I can extra lose too. I will not go into any details. Now I want to shoot you... That's okay. I want to shoot you too. I have caught up on the thread and like both of our lynch candidates. I just want to add Drazerk in there. No time to make a case with quotes from him, but here's the reasons: 1. His play is disruptive. This may be useful in the beginning (forcing people to post, which may or may not be useful, depending on content), but it is terrible as the game goes on. 2. He is trying to shut down useful discussion on a number of occasions (mainly the ET-Maju-HiroPro debate) 3. He claims not to have read his role PM, which I don't believe. Of course, Drazerk is notorious for lying about game mechanics (or meta game mechanics in this case), but in this case I think it's a scummy thing to do. As a final extra: Drazerk is more dangerous as scum than he is useful as town (insofar as I can figure out from WaW2, the only town game I have seen from him). Killing him is unlikely to hurt us. | ||
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On June 19 2012 05:56 talismania wrote: Can I have people's reads/opinions/impressions of strongandbig? Leaning vaguely towards town on him. No strong read, though. | ||
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On June 19 2012 05:58 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:56 talismania wrote: Can I have people's reads/opinions/impressions of strongandbig? I think he has a seperate win con to murder someone I think this is the same win con that 201 / Acro has I can ONLY win with town. I can lose with town... and additionally I can lose if something bad happens. No clue what Nisani's extra wincon is. | ||
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On June 19 2012 06:02 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 06:01 talismania wrote: So... does anyone else think deconduo was scarily accurate when he described this as an assassins + kingmaker setup? Right now reading between the lines it sounds like there's a bunch of people who can win with town (or with scum?) but get an extra bonus if they're the one to night kill the MA or King or something like that. Maybe extra lose if they accidentally kill the other or some other role. And this is where my current theory is coming in What's your current theory? | ||
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On June 19 2012 06:18 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 06:17 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 06:02 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 06:01 talismania wrote: So... does anyone else think deconduo was scarily accurate when he described this as an assassins + kingmaker setup? Right now reading between the lines it sounds like there's a bunch of people who can win with town (or with scum?) but get an extra bonus if they're the one to night kill the MA or King or something like that. Maybe extra lose if they accidentally kill the other or some other role. And this is where my current theory is coming in What's your current theory? you just quoted on it... That was Talismania's. Mind putting it in your own words? I disagree with Talismania (and deconduo). I think it *might* be something similar, but the devil is in the details. | ||
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On June 19 2012 06:27 Drazerk wrote: You have to murder someone to not lose 201 has to murder someone to not lose and has to keep someone else alive to win S+B = 201 I don't have to murder anybody to not lose. | ||
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Other than that his filter is lacking scumhunting, but it makes a lot of sense. It is not at all like his filter in Spaceship, where he went into hardcore lurker mode at the start of D1 and never posted anything of use ever. | ||
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We COULD have used that to get like 3 or 4 confirmed town there. Or to get a clear red check on 1 person. However, instead we learned fuckall, unless Talismania is actually scum. If Tali flips scum, then either Drazerk or deconduo is also scum, but out of all possible ways that post could be made a lie, Tali being scum is currently looking like the least likely one to me. | ||
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Drazerk is either dumb or scum and Deconduo is either dumb or scum Out of these I think Drazerk is scum Deconduo is dumb are the correct options. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:32 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:31 strongandbig wrote: Okay so. That came back as "false". I think Decon is town, since he was willing to use his power if Talismania had said what he said originally. So either: Talismania is town, Drazerk is not town, or both of those things. Unfortunately, neither of Drazerk and Talismania is really confirmed until the other one dies. You gotta admit I'd be insane to come forward and do that if I had read my role PM and it said scum No. Because it would tell you your scumbuddies and Talismania would NOT be among them, therefore with that wording you would be completely safe. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:38 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:35 talismania wrote: On June 19 2012 07:33 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 07:32 Acrofales wrote: That was the dumbest use of a really awesome power I ever saw. We learned exactly nothing there, because I believe Talismania is town. Which means we are all town? Why did you write the passage the way you did? You could have written, Deconduo is town Drazerk is town Talismania is town. But instead you chose to put "talismania is not town" Why? I just copied what he gave me I missed that. Okay, that means we learned even LESS than I thought from that pointless exercise in futility. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:39 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 07:32 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 07:31 strongandbig wrote: Okay so. That came back as "false". I think Decon is town, since he was willing to use his power if Talismania had said what he said originally. So either: Talismania is town, Drazerk is not town, or both of those things. Unfortunately, neither of Drazerk and Talismania is really confirmed until the other one dies. You gotta admit I'd be insane to come forward and do that if I had read my role PM and it said scum No. Because it would tell you your scumbuddies and Talismania would NOT be among them, therefore with that wording you would be completely safe. That logic makes no sense It does. If you were scum and Tali were town, you would know Tali is not on your scumteam and hence probable town. A tiny bit of looking at the thread would make that even more probable. Now lets go back to the logic: Statements: A = drazerk is town B = deconduo is town C = talismania is town Theory: A & B & ~C Theory is FALSE, so we know: ~(A & B & ~C) = ~A | ~B | C This statement is true if any one of the following is true: ~A = Drazerk is not town ~B = Deconduo is not town C = Talismania is town Because you would already know C, that would make it completely safe for you. If it's still not clear, replace "Talismania is not town" in the checked post with "Pigs can fly". Because pigs can, in fact, not fly, anything else in the post is irrelevant: it will be marked as false. However, this is all academic, because Deconduo derped even more than I thought and we learned NOTHING from the whole ordeal. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:45 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:34 deconduo wrote: On June 19 2012 07:32 Acrofales wrote: That was the dumbest use of a really awesome power I ever saw. We learned exactly nothing there, because I believe Talismania is town. As I said I'm pretty sure all 3 of us are town, assuming talis actually uses his shot before we all die of old age. There is a good chance all three are town. However - none of you are 100% confirmed, which you could be. I was just thinking about this again. Look at it using logic. If one of the statements is false, then knowing that the overall statement is false, gives us literally no information about the other two statements. Based on the way you all acted around the time of the statement, I think you are town. However, either Talismania or Drazerk could be scum. Look at their actions: - Drazerk was being a troll and a moron, and hadn't read his PM apparently. Therefore, his actions give us no information about his alignment. - Talismania wouldn't just post the thing you wanted him to, even though it was painfully obvious what was going on. Other than that, I think Talismania is probably town, but he or Drazerk could still be scum. To be fair, I also wouldn't have copied what he posted blindly. Unfortunately I have more reservations about Drazerk, ESPECIALLY if he, as claimed, has not read his role PM. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:51 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:47 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 07:39 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 07:32 Drazerk wrote: On June 19 2012 07:31 strongandbig wrote: Okay so. That came back as "false". I think Decon is town, since he was willing to use his power if Talismania had said what he said originally. So either: Talismania is town, Drazerk is not town, or both of those things. Unfortunately, neither of Drazerk and Talismania is really confirmed until the other one dies. You gotta admit I'd be insane to come forward and do that if I had read my role PM and it said scum No. Because it would tell you your scumbuddies and Talismania would NOT be among them, therefore with that wording you would be completely safe. That logic makes no sense It does. If you were scum and Tali were town, you would know Tali is not on your scumteam and hence probable town. A tiny bit of looking at the thread would make that even more probable. Now lets go back to the logic: Statements: A = drazerk is town B = deconduo is town C = talismania is town Theory: A & B & ~C Theory is FALSE, so we know: ~(A & B & ~C) = ~A | ~B | C This statement is true if any one of the following is true: ~A = Drazerk is not town ~B = Deconduo is not town C = Talismania is town Because you would already know C, that would make it completely safe for you. If it's still not clear, replace "Talismania is not town" in the checked post with "Pigs can fly". Because pigs can, in fact, not fly, anything else in the post is irrelevant: it will be marked as false. However, this is all academic, because Deconduo derped even more than I thought and we learned NOTHING from the whole ordeal. Statement C was "talismania is not town" btw. It's clear to me that deconduo should be town unless he's really dumb. Drazerk did initially write three statements that said he was town, dec was town, and I was a day vig, but deconduo did not elect to do that, and instead made him type what he did. Drazerk's statement if checked would have been incredibly incriminating against him had it come back a lie, and I would have shot him. So it makes the most sense that he is town as well. Hence the squiggle: it means strong negation in logic. | ||
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On June 19 2012 07:53 deconduo wrote: Oh for all the people whining, here was my logic: I was pretty sure talis was neutral or 3rd party. None of his actions pointed towards him being town. If the statement showed up as true, we had 2 confirmed towns and we killed talis. If instead I had posted that all 3 of us were town and it turned up false, we would be in the exact same situation. We would lynch talis, and assuming he flipped non-town, it would give no information on either mine or drazerk's alignment. Operating on the assumption that talis was not town, given how he was avoiding posting what I had asked, the statement tested was the best one to go for. And yes, while none of the 3 of us are 100% confirmed, we are 95% town. So for your test of Talismania being scum, you use Drazerk?! Why not wait for someone who you actually have some conviction of being town to come on? Drazerk has self-proclaimed MULTIPLE times in the thread to not even have read his own role pm. This was a BAD use of that power and you SHOULD have thought it through more. Now back to hunting scum. At least I agree that if Drazerk knew he was scum, he would not have posted the first proposal for lie detecting, so at least we know that Drazerk is either town and messing with us, or has, in actual fact, not read his role pm. | ||
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Drazerk: 100% didn't read his role pm, so approx. 4/14 chance of being scum (assuming 4 scum... there's 14 as a denominator, because we know he's not the kingmaker, due to a king being chosen). However, this fucks up the probabilities on the rest as well and all we get from that is further behavioural analysis, which say that you and Tali are town. However, it was a complete waste of a lie detector. | ||
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On June 19 2012 08:00 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:59 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 07:53 deconduo wrote: Oh for all the people whining, here was my logic: I was pretty sure talis was neutral or 3rd party. None of his actions pointed towards him being town. If the statement showed up as true, we had 2 confirmed towns and we killed talis. If instead I had posted that all 3 of us were town and it turned up false, we would be in the exact same situation. We would lynch talis, and assuming he flipped non-town, it would give no information on either mine or drazerk's alignment. Operating on the assumption that talis was not town, given how he was avoiding posting what I had asked, the statement tested was the best one to go for. And yes, while none of the 3 of us are 100% confirmed, we are 95% town. So for your test of Talismania being scum, you use Drazerk?! Why not wait for someone who you actually have some conviction of being town to come on? Drazerk has self-proclaimed MULTIPLE times in the thread to not even have read his own role pm. This was a BAD use of that power and you SHOULD have thought it through more. Now back to hunting scum. At least I agree that if Drazerk knew he was scum, he would not have posted the first proposal for lie detecting, so at least we know that Drazerk is either town and messing with us, or has, in actual fact, not read his role pm. I read it a couple of pages back I am town Shuddup. You're just confusing the issue more: On June 19 2012 07:16 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 07:15 deconduo wrote: I'm 99% sure Drazerk is town, there's no way a non-town would come out like that to try and get proven. If it comes back a lie it almost certainly means talis is town. If it comes back true, we lynch talis. You're aware I haven't read my role PM right? You reading your role PM after the check tells us NOTHING about the check. You claiming to not have read your role PM when the check was made is more believable than this claim now. However, thanks for stating you've now read your role PM and are claiming town. We can disregard everything before this as far as analysis is concerned and start from this point onwards. You basically wasted a day worth of filter on trolling. | ||
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On June 19 2012 08:10 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 08:09 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: I mean with regards to Drazerk. Everybody else's filter from N0 and D1 is still completely valid. Just Drazerk's says nothing about his alignment. Now imagine that in the power of a scum player. I did. I still want you dead. | ||
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I'm also back on the KB train, btw. However, it's a weird love triangle with DropBear that I don't get at all. DropBear, on the other hand is not. His reason for taking his vote off KB is unconvincing. If he really doesn't think KB is scum, he would have said something that his defense is adequate, but if he was scum in the first place, then nobody going along with his mislynch is a good reason to put his vote to better use. See here: On June 19 2012 12:51 DropBear wrote: Jesus christ you guys are spammy. Please stop with the one-liners! I'm reading up. Good shot on majugarzett, I'm unvoting KB for now cos he was voting for maju according to the voting thread. KB had his vote on Maju at the start of D1. Let me repeat that: START of the day. He didn't actually vote for Maju... nor do we know he would have if you are right, KB is scum and Maju was his scumbuddy. Even if he did end up voting, his main case is not Maju and he hasn't really been pushing for his lynch (in fact, he was setting himself up to be able to switch off without looking suspicions). How does a post like + Show Spoiler [KB "pressuring" Maju] + On June 19 2012 05:51 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:45 EchelonTee wrote: npnpnpnpn, just want to make sure you don't do it too last minute. Maju or Dropbear. Vote em or bring a better case. I am for DropBear at the moment, the reason being that DropBear actually played somewhat scummy, Maju "just" lurked until now. I'm keeping my lynch vote on Maju though. let KB off the hook. If anything, it makes him look scummier. For more on how KB likes to "pressure" people in D1 when he's scum, I suggest you read Newbie VIII. His pressure there was about as convincing as this pressure on Maju was. However, back to DropBear. After being "convinced" that KB is no longer scum, he switches to Nisani. While there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to lynch Nisani (see other comments, below), his case seems forced. It is also just another run-of-the-mill candidate who has, in fact, all but claimed some kind of 3rd party role in the thread, yet the case doesn't mention that at all. As a final part of the puzzle, I suggest you search for Maju in DropBear's filter. The only time it pops up is after Tali shoots Maju. Scum don't like to mention each other... ever. They don't like to defend each other (because connections can be made) and they don't want to attack each other. Hence, a common scum play is to just not mention one's scumbuddies unless forced to. Note that this is more of a light scumslip addition than anything I would normally build a case around, but add it to generally scummy behaviour and I think we've found Maju's scumbuddy. Other comments I am not yet decided on Nisani. I don't like some things in his play, specifically the way he just posts suspicions on people without committing, but I have not yet found anything conclusively scummy in his play. What I mainly don't like is his claimed "extra wincon". That sounds like 3P to me. I have an extra condition for losing, but can ONLY win with town. Any way to win, other than with town, sounds fishy. At best, it's like lynching Glados in Aperture and at worst, it's an anti-town wincon. While I feel DB is a better lynch for the moment, he is not a bad candidate. BioSC and Hyaach are lurking like bawzes and should be shot. Gonna read up on xsksc next. | ||
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##unvote ##vote DropBear | ||
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Maju made a case on Fourface (a pretty terrible one, but he was trying to deflect pressure from himself onto FF, which he'd probably not do if they were scum together). This case is basically a chainsaw defense of ET, but because ET didn't actually need defending (only FF was pressuring him), I am not going to read any conspiracies into that. Based on this, FF is likely not on Maju's team and the chainsaw defense says nothing about ET's alignment. However, after this case, he is pressured into saying something about KB. He thinks KB is scummy based on this: On June 19 2012 08:28 MajuGarzett wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 08:11 talismania wrote: MajuGarzett come back! I still need your opinion on KB and nisani, as well as anyone besides FourFace that you think is scum. KB is scummy. I know I said earlier that I didn't suspect him but that was in reference solely to the act of making an alliance with the house. The stuff he's done after that is bad. Nisani is okay but I disliked how little info there was in his vote for xsksc. He didn't really point out anything, just make generalizations and tell people to go look at the filter themselves. This is about as useless an accusation as they get. What stuff was bad? Of course Maju wouldn't go into specifics: he's scum and giving out information is something he doesn't want to do. I am hesitant to draw any conclusion about KB's alignment based on this. However, we then have KB talking about Majudude: + Show Spoiler [KB about Majujular] + On June 18 2012 04:55 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 04:45 HiroPro wrote: KB, I want to hear your thoughts on MajuGarzett. His first couple posts are all questions on the inner workings of House Chezinu which seems like the usual earlygame discussion attempts. One could possibly interpret that as scum gauging whether or not it's worthwhile to enter, but it's entirely possible that this is just genuine interest, in which case it's a null read so I'm not ready to judge Maju on that alone. Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 11:07 MajuGarzett wrote: On June 17 2012 10:50 xsksc wrote: On June 17 2012 10:05 Drazerk wrote: I should read the thread but that is too much effort ... I remember trying to lynch you in Steamship for this kind of posting. People just said, nah that's just how Drazerk plays. There's no need to be lazy though. -_- Is anyone else around atm? The thread's gone pretty quiet, let's try and get some constructive discussion going. I would like to hear some more opinnions on Nisanis and Kharadbanars haste in allying with an unknown faction, especially this early in the game. Personally, I don't like their decision at all. We have very little information about the House, because honestly, most of HiroPro's posts about it have been flavour and nonsense. It may turn out that HiroPro and his House turn out to be a good resource for town. Until I know more about it, however, I'm staying well clear. Well allying such a shady group is weird but there's no real downside to it as the alliance is so far just empty words. I can see why they did it. Honestly I think that the house won't really do anything to help Nisani and KB. This is essentially what I was thinking at that moment, and I'm town, so I don't get a real read in any direction here either (I know some of you were getting slight scum vibes from him at that point, what with softdefending the scummy looking Nisani and me, but he really understood my though process) There is however a noticeable absence of any accusations in his filter, which suggests he's either an uninterested townie, 3rd Party or scum. In conclusion, Maju looks less townish than the Night 0 discussion leaders (Acrofales and HiroPro, later EchelonTee), but not scummy enough for me to be willing to lynch him. On June 19 2012 04:06 KharadBanar wrote: Why not? If Bio doesn't get pressured we may never hear a something useful from him. On the other hand, Maju pretty much has the same problems as Bio right now. I'm not opposed to pressuring him right now either. In fact, I want to get more people in this thread to not lurk. ##Vote: MajuGarzett On June 19 2012 05:51 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:45 EchelonTee wrote: npnpnpnpn, just want to make sure you don't do it too last minute. Maju or Dropbear. Vote em or bring a better case. I am for DropBear at the moment, the reason being that DropBear actually played somewhat scummy, Maju "just" lurked until now. I'm keeping my lynch vote on Maju though. So... we go gradually from "he's not my first scum candidate", to "lurking scum" and finally to "scummier people are around, but keeping my vote on the lurker". Scummy voting behaviour if ever I've seen it. KB is looking pretty solid as a 3rd party lynch. And I already pointed out that DropBear has a strange twisted view of KB's playstyle. + Show Spoiler [Koala thinks KB is scum... or does he?] + On June 18 2012 22:59 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 21:13 Acrofales wrote: On June 18 2012 20:03 DropBear wrote: Lol Acrofales that first post started off with the lyrics from the matchbox 20 song 3am because it was 3am my time. I was saying that I don't want to join house Chezinu, whats the problem there? I very specifically took a stance against joining, how is that blending? No shit Hiro never mentioned the King. I thought his recruitment drive thing was cos he was allied with the king and was asking him if it was true. You don't mind my post as to saying why I find KB suspicious, but then you don't think its a reason to want him dead? That's a paradox. You can't like my reasoning and then tell me its bad reasoning. I want KB dead and I stand by that. You have omitted several of my posts that also indicate that I don't trust him. This case seems poorly thought out man. I wouldn't go so far as to say manufactured, but poorly thought out. If you don't think KB is town, why would you not want him dead as well? I still don't understand how you ever got a link between Hiro and the king... it makes no sense. You didn't "very specifically take a stance against Chezinu", you said you didn't trust them "yet", which is about the same as saying nothing. Drazerk took a stance against Chezinu. I took a stance against Chezinu. Talismania made his opinon on Chezinu clear (saying he wanted more info before considering them). Nisani and KB also had a clear stance on Chezinu. You just blended, making a post that can be interpreted either way. The same is your early pressure on KB: at the time it was good. It was a correctly voiced suspicion of some suspicious shit. However, he answered your suspicions. Your only real post about KB since then was "I want him dead". I guess when you say you've posted "other stuff on KB" indicating you don't trust him, you are referring to this: On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote: On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote: On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote: Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote: If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that. By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB? Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself: I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates. This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out. I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do. Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight. + Show Spoiler [Other stuff] + Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead. Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her? You still haven't actually given a reason to kill him. Which comes together with my final answer to you: why do you think KharadBanar is scum. I think he's not town. I am not yet sure he's anti-town and don't find his behaviour actually scummy... it seems far more likely that he's a survivor or some other non-helpful third party. My priorities are on finding and killing scum. So far, you're still my favourite target and this defense of yours is unconvincing. I don't mind being wrong, though. How about you tell me why KB is scum and should die. Yes he did answer my suspicions. With a post that made me more suspicious of him. I accused him of talking a lot and saying nothing, he replied, his reply was more of the same. I think he is scum because he made a slip that is not including himself among town. I think he is scum because of his constant apologising which shows inherent guilt. I think he is scum because of his flailing around based on popular opinion regarding house chezinu on night0 trying desperately not to offend anybody. I think he is scum because of his large wordy but contentless post saying things like "giving mafia information is bad" in 3 paragraphs that make it look like he is helping but he isn't. I think he is scum rather than a third party because Nisani is defending him and Nisani is dodgy as shit. Nisani defends him from both xcxkc or however you spell it and also myself. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 10:19 Nisani201 wrote: I think the case is horrible. Could be a bus, not sure because I'm null on KB at the moment. He takes out a lot of context from KB's actions, and he doesn't point out why points 1&2 are scummy. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 10:19 Nisani201 wrote: I think the case is horrible. Could be a bus, not sure because I'm null on KB at the moment. He takes out a lot of context from KB's actions, and he doesn't point out why points 1&2 are scummy. As for this first post I made which you keep bringing up, I said I wouldn't join. And I didn't join. My actions speak for themselves. This case has some merit (except for the connection crap with Nisani) On June 19 2012 12:51 DropBear wrote: Jesus christ you guys are spammy. Please stop with the one-liners! I'm reading up. Good shot on majugarzett, I'm unvoting KB for now cos he was voting for maju according to the voting thread. WTF. See my case a few posts above for the reasoning. Additionally we have KB voting for Koala getting shot by Tali. From this, either KB and DropBear are happily bussing the hell out of each other (a good tactic, but only really in the hands of Drazerk... or in the case of totally shitting up the thread a la Toad/VE), or they are not scum together, but both are scummy. I therefore conclude that DropBear is most likely scum with Majuju and KB is some strange 3rd party who is completely uninterested in helping town (and quite possibly out to murder us all). | ||
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On June 19 2012 19:05 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 18:35 EchelonTee wrote: about 8.5 hours to lynch. It's go time. As far I can tell, the only viable candidates are Nisani201, DropBear, xsksc, or KB. Pick between then; since it's plurality lynch, there isn't as much rush hullabaloo to consolidate, but you best put your reasoning down. I'd like opinions on xsksc, because there hasn't been much discussion on him. He also stated that he might not be around for deadline, which is troubling. Why am I a lynch candidate again? Because I think you're scum, as I stated here (with your inadequate reply) and here. | ||
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I have also read Nisani's filter and other than the really dodgy roleclaim I have a null read. I think that a full roleclaim at this time is a really bad idea, and I am not willing to lynch Nisani just to get more info on the setup, because I think there are scummier people. What in Nisani's filter is setting people's alarm bells off (other than that dodgy roleclaim, which, btw, was also completely unnecessary if he's actually a dodgy 3rd party role)? For the moment, I think neither nisani, nor xksjaakdquqiweksks are particularly good lynches and we should be lynching Koala or KB. | ||
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The entire post is a case against DropBear. You get mentioned in passing (and I admit I get a bit derailed there). I also don't think you're Maju's scumbuddy and agree that doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. For more of a case against YOU, you should look at the later post I made. That is more where I explain how the Maju flip doesn't help you at all: I thought you were 3rd party before the flip and think you're still 3rd party. Interestingly you gloat that I am wrong about saying you're a serial killer. So what are you? I *might* believe survivor. I won't believe you claiming town at this point. | ||
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On June 19 2012 20:16 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Hurrah. So we can confirm Maju's meta: when he looks like scum in his first 5 posts, he is in fact scum! Nice shot, Tali. I'm also back on the KB train, btw. However, it's a weird love triangle with DropBear that I don't get at all. DropBear, on the other hand is not. His reason for taking his vote off KB is unconvincing. If he really doesn't think KB is scum, he would have said something that his defense is adequate, but if he was scum in the first place, then nobody going along with his mislynch is a good reason to put his vote to better use. See here: On June 19 2012 12:51 DropBear wrote: Jesus christ you guys are spammy. Please stop with the one-liners! I'm reading up. Good shot on majugarzett, I'm unvoting KB for now cos he was voting for maju according to the voting thread. KB had his vote on Maju at the start of D1. Let me repeat that: START of the day. He didn't actually vote for Maju... nor do we know he would have if you are right, KB is scum and Maju was his scumbuddy. Even if he did end up voting, his main case is not Maju and he hasn't really been pushing for his lynch (in fact, he was setting himself up to be able to switch off without looking suspicions). How does a post like + Show Spoiler [KB "pressuring" Maju] + On June 19 2012 05:51 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:45 EchelonTee wrote: npnpnpnpn, just want to make sure you don't do it too last minute. Maju or Dropbear. Vote em or bring a better case. I am for DropBear at the moment, the reason being that DropBear actually played somewhat scummy, Maju "just" lurked until now. I'm keeping my lynch vote on Maju though. let KB off the hook. If anything, it makes him look scummier. For more on how KB likes to "pressure" people in D1 when he's scum, I suggest you read Newbie VIII. His pressure there was about as convincing as this pressure on Maju was. However, back to DropBear. After being "convinced" that KB is no longer scum, he switches to Nisani. While there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to lynch Nisani (see other comments, below), his case seems forced. It is also just another run-of-the-mill candidate who has, in fact, all but claimed some kind of 3rd party role in the thread, yet the case doesn't mention that at all. As a final part of the puzzle, I suggest you search for Maju in DropBear's filter. The only time it pops up is after Tali shoots Maju. Scum don't like to mention each other... ever. They don't like to defend each other (because connections can be made) and they don't want to attack each other. Hence, a common scum play is to just not mention one's scumbuddies unless forced to. Note that this is more of a light scumslip addition than anything I would normally build a case around, but add it to generally scummy behaviour and I think we've found Maju's scumbuddy. Some of this is so illogical it hurts my brain and much of it is factually incorrect. I don't actually know how to respond to this other than that I am ignoring you from now on. Wow. This is enlightening. Oh master of logic, please start by stating which parts are factually incorrect. When done with that, please explain what logic is wrong... and please please please do something that resembles serious scumhunting. | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:18 DropBear wrote: How is my case on Nisani not substantial? He is running scared and defended a red. I always use big red letters in my accusations, as both mafia and town, read my past games. Acrofales case still makes my head hurt. You voted for Majugarzett, maju flipped red, I unvoted you because of this. Apparently that makes me mafia these days sheesh. So what I haven't mentioned Maju? I haven't mentioned like half the players in the game it's still day 1. It's that your reasoning seems to deliberately exclude any possible 3rd party, 2nd scumteam, etc, while what we know of the setup so far seems completely tailored to having 3rd parties or 2nd scumteam mechanics (and with the flip we have this pretty much confirmed: 2 scum seems highly unlikely). I can see no reason why a town player would be convinced that KB is no longer scummy based on the flip, given the setup of this game. Yet you claim to have been convinced that KB is not scum based on the flip. Why did the flip convince you that KB is town? | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:26 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 21:17 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 20:16 DropBear wrote: On June 19 2012 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Hurrah. So we can confirm Maju's meta: when he looks like scum in his first 5 posts, he is in fact scum! Nice shot, Tali. I'm also back on the KB train, btw. However, it's a weird love triangle with DropBear that I don't get at all. DropBear, on the other hand is not. His reason for taking his vote off KB is unconvincing. If he really doesn't think KB is scum, he would have said something that his defense is adequate, but if he was scum in the first place, then nobody going along with his mislynch is a good reason to put his vote to better use. See here: On June 19 2012 12:51 DropBear wrote: Jesus christ you guys are spammy. Please stop with the one-liners! I'm reading up. Good shot on majugarzett, I'm unvoting KB for now cos he was voting for maju according to the voting thread. KB had his vote on Maju at the start of D1. Let me repeat that: START of the day. He didn't actually vote for Maju... nor do we know he would have if you are right, KB is scum and Maju was his scumbuddy. Even if he did end up voting, his main case is not Maju and he hasn't really been pushing for his lynch (in fact, he was setting himself up to be able to switch off without looking suspicions). How does a post like + Show Spoiler [KB "pressuring" Maju] + On June 19 2012 05:51 KharadBanar wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:45 EchelonTee wrote: npnpnpnpn, just want to make sure you don't do it too last minute. Maju or Dropbear. Vote em or bring a better case. I am for DropBear at the moment, the reason being that DropBear actually played somewhat scummy, Maju "just" lurked until now. I'm keeping my lynch vote on Maju though. let KB off the hook. If anything, it makes him look scummier. For more on how KB likes to "pressure" people in D1 when he's scum, I suggest you read Newbie VIII. His pressure there was about as convincing as this pressure on Maju was. However, back to DropBear. After being "convinced" that KB is no longer scum, he switches to Nisani. While there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to lynch Nisani (see other comments, below), his case seems forced. It is also just another run-of-the-mill candidate who has, in fact, all but claimed some kind of 3rd party role in the thread, yet the case doesn't mention that at all. As a final part of the puzzle, I suggest you search for Maju in DropBear's filter. The only time it pops up is after Tali shoots Maju. Scum don't like to mention each other... ever. They don't like to defend each other (because connections can be made) and they don't want to attack each other. Hence, a common scum play is to just not mention one's scumbuddies unless forced to. Note that this is more of a light scumslip addition than anything I would normally build a case around, but add it to generally scummy behaviour and I think we've found Maju's scumbuddy. Some of this is so illogical it hurts my brain and much of it is factually incorrect. I don't actually know how to respond to this other than that I am ignoring you from now on. Wow. This is enlightening. Oh master of logic, please start by stating which parts are factually incorrect. When done with that, please explain what logic is wrong... and please please please do something that resembles serious scumhunting. Wtf is serious scumhunting? I gave you a case on Nisani. I think he is red. I think he needs to hang. What more do you want from me? You yourself have only given one case, on me. Does that make you scum as well? OF COURSE IT DOESN'T. KB voted maju. Maju flipped red. I lose suspicion of KB because of this. According to you, that makes me mafia. Logically this just doesn't make sense. I lose some suspicion of him due to cold hard facts. Maju was mafia. KB voted for him. I never said I was "convinced" that KB is no longer mafia either. This is factually incorrect. If I did, please link me. I hadn't mentioned Maju, true. I also hadn't mentioned half the players in the game. By your logic, about half the game is on a scum team with me. You sir are tunnelling, KB is only voting for me cos I was drilling him earlier. I don't think you are mafia but I do think you need to reconsider the facts. Tunneling scum is not a bad thing (ask Mattchew). BLINDLY tunneling is bad, but I have my eyes wide open and am reading other people... I just think you're the scummiest of all. I will happily tunnel you until you die or I change my mind about you. Scumhunting does not only consist of making PBPA cases. You can pressure people for information in many different ways. HiroPro's chezinu thing was actually a good example of an unorthodox method of scumhunting (and it caught at least one scum in Maju). Talismania put some decent pressure on. I would like to think that my active stance and tracking down people saying things I don't like the sound of is also helping town. Oh, and additionally, I am not convinced by your Nisani case. I have looked at his filter and given my opinion on it. | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:37 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 21:30 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 21:18 DropBear wrote: How is my case on Nisani not substantial? He is running scared and defended a red. I always use big red letters in my accusations, as both mafia and town, read my past games. Acrofales case still makes my head hurt. You voted for Majugarzett, maju flipped red, I unvoted you because of this. Apparently that makes me mafia these days sheesh. So what I haven't mentioned Maju? I haven't mentioned like half the players in the game it's still day 1. It's that your reasoning seems to deliberately exclude any possible 3rd party, 2nd scumteam, etc, while what we know of the setup so far seems completely tailored to having 3rd parties or 2nd scumteam mechanics (and with the flip we have this pretty much confirmed: 2 scum seems highly unlikely). I can see no reason why a town player would be convinced that KB is no longer scummy based on the flip, given the setup of this game. Yet you claim to have been convinced that KB is not scum based on the flip. Why did the flip convince you that KB is town? IT DOESN'T CONVINCE ME. It makes it MORE LIKELY. You are dealing in absolutes. KB is still dodgy but it makes him LESS LIKELY to be mafia. Who gives a fuck if there is a second scum team? Scum is scum. I am hunting who I think is MORE LIKELY to be scum with Maju having flipped. How do we even know there is a second scum team? Do you know something that I don't? You seem pretty convinced that there are two I'm pretty convinced that in a 15-player game there are more than 2 scum? Yes. Whether they're a team? I don't know. There may just be a large number of 3rd party out there. You think it's likely that Nisani is on a scumteam with Maju? How does Nisani's claimed "extra wincon" fit with being scum with Maju? Or do you think he's lying? And got a lucky guess? Or scum was given alternative wincon roleclaims or something? | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:42 DropBear wrote: I am a Vengeful Townie. If I am lynched the last person to vote for me dies as well. Do your fucking worst. strongandbig this is the singel worst post I have ever seen in Mafia ever and is also the biggest bandwagoning I have ever seen. How is an extra win/loss thing persuasive. Nisani claimed that he has an extra wincon. That's it. Not what it is. Not if it's benign or malicious. Just that he has an extra wincon. HOW THE FLYING FUCK DOES THAT CLEAR HIM? He has claimed it is not in contradiction with town wincon too. The point is that it leaves the following possibilities: 1. Nisani is telling the truth about having extra win/loss conditions. That seems not to jibe with Maju's role pm, so they are not scum together. 2. Nisani is lying about having extra win/loss conditions. Nisani was the FIRST to claim he had extra conditions and he has done so in decent enough detail for now. That means: a. He is scum with an incredibly lucky guess to say something that jibes with, at the very least, my own role pm (at least as far as extra loss conditions go). b. He is scum and scum was provided with full false roleclaims to use... he then volunteered this info at a time when it wasn't strictly necessary. c. He is not Maju's scumbuddy, but something else. Out of these, (2c) seems by far the most likely to me. Hmmm... interesting role claim. What is your name? | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:48 DropBear wrote: I THINK NISANI IS ON A SCUMTEAM WITH MAJU BECAUSE HE FUCKING DEFENDED MAJU HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN I MAKE THIS Is this your first game of mafia? Townies defend scum all the time. The whole point of mafia is that townies don't know who is scum and thus can be wrong about their reads. | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:53 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 21:48 DropBear wrote: I THINK NISANI IS ON A SCUMTEAM WITH MAJU BECAUSE HE FUCKING DEFENDED MAJU HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN I MAKE THIS Is this your first game of mafia? Townies defend scum all the time. The whole point of mafia is that townies don't know who is scum and thus can be wrong about their reads. EBWOP: not claiming Nisani is town, just making a general statement. I do think Nisani is not Maju's scumbuddy (unless scum is provided with false roleclaims, then it enters the realm of possibilities again). | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:59 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 21:52 Acrofales wrote: On June 19 2012 21:42 DropBear wrote: I am a Vengeful Townie. If I am lynched the last person to vote for me dies as well. Do your fucking worst. strongandbig this is the singel worst post I have ever seen in Mafia ever and is also the biggest bandwagoning I have ever seen. How is an extra win/loss thing persuasive. Nisani claimed that he has an extra wincon. That's it. Not what it is. Not if it's benign or malicious. Just that he has an extra wincon. HOW THE FLYING FUCK DOES THAT CLEAR HIM? He has claimed it is not in contradiction with town wincon too. The point is that it leaves the following possibilities: 1. Nisani is telling the truth about having extra win/loss conditions. That seems not to jibe with Maju's role pm, so they are not scum together. 2. Nisani is lying about having extra win/loss conditions. Nisani was the FIRST to claim he had extra conditions and he has done so in decent enough detail for now. That means: a. He is scum with an incredibly lucky guess to say something that jibes with, at the very least, my own role pm (at least as far as extra loss conditions go). b. He is scum and scum was provided with full false roleclaims to use... he then volunteered this info at a time when it wasn't strictly necessary. c. He is not Maju's scumbuddy, but something else. Out of these, (2c) seems by far the most likely to me. Hmmm... interesting role claim. What is your name? Please link me to where it is that Nisani claimed his extra win-loss conditions first. Show me where it actually happened. You could just go over his filter, it's not that hard, but okay: + Show Spoiler [Here] + On June 19 2012 05:10 Nisani201 wrote: Alright so I've just read through the thread and I have no idea why people are saying that my play is strange or weird or whatever. I don't know why people are getting away with soft-calling me scum (I'm looking at you, talis) and no one is really posting reasoning There is Hyaach's analysis on me, which is pretty bad. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 16:23 Hyaach wrote: Nisani201. People find it wierd to ally so fast with a house without any information from it? On June 17 2012 05:00 Nisani201 wrote: On June 17 2012 04:47 talismania wrote: KharadBanar and Nisani206 Why did you ally with HiroPro? Because I prefer to make friends, not enemies. Only people that wants friends are scum/third parties. Towns can credit themselves cred by scum hunting. Scum/third parties are lazy and lack this advantage. Alright, I agree that I didn't explain myself very well in that post and it looks pretty bad, but I'll try to explain it now. My main understanding of the "house chezinu" mainly came from Merc Mini 2 where I played with Chezinu, and he was acting very similar to Hiro's play in this game. In that game Chezinu was a bulletproof SK and I figured that it was very likely Hiro had a lot of power. I didn't want to get stuck in some stupid feud with a third party when I could have been scumhunting. Furthermore, I didn't really see any downside to allying with the House... and no one has pointed one out; people have been saying that this kind of affiliation with it is scummy but I don't really see why that is. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 16:23 Hyaach wrote: On June 17 2012 07:22 Nisani201 wrote: I highly doubt that there are any vanilla roles such as "serial killer" in this game. Why discredit the existence of a 3rd party be it a group or 1 single individual? This is a crazy game and it has crazy roles... I know that I have a crazy role, not sure about others but my experience with crazy games suggests that most people are going to have crazy roles as well. Why the hell did you include this in your analysis? Did you run out of posts that you thought were actually scummy? This entire case is forced, and this part of it proves it to me. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 16:23 Hyaach wrote: On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote: Some other points to make: If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have. I also don't like the case on Maju On June 18 2012 07:19 Nisani201 wrote: I think the source of a lot of confusion surrounding the monarch stuff is because talis/acro aren't making good distinctions between what is fact (established in the role pm) and what is speculation. Could you two be more specific? Why are you so interested in the King and the specific set up? Do they have anything to do with your win-con? Once again more blatant and pointless speculation. A lot of people are talking about the king. Because 2 people (and probably more) already have information on it it seems like it's a very important mechanic in this game. Information is especially important in a game like this where we have so little information about the setup and anything can happen. Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 16:23 Hyaach wrote: On June 17 2012 10:09 Nisani201 wrote: What information is revealed upon death? With 0 KP last night and KB who is buddy-buddying you is in the spotlight. Are you afraid his death will reveal existence of your 3rd party set up? What the hell is this? I ask a question to the host and now you're spinning it and making up bullshit. There are a million reasons why I could have asked this question, and you pull one out of the hat to match the opinion of Hiro and a few others that I am 3P. On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you want me to claim? I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives. This is after knowledge of the MA and king was given out, but nobody had mentioned alternative wincons, except deconduo's speculation on kingmaker + assassin. As an extra crumb we have this: On June 19 2012 05:46 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:44 talismania wrote: On June 19 2012 05:39 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you keep asking me these questions? Because I want to know? And I have a gun? Do you know of any other factions? If your wincon is town-aligned, then maybe us in town can help you out. Did your pm contain any info on the king and MA at all? No I don't know about any other factions, and my role PM didn't have any information about monarchs or monarchist activist. So he claims his extra wincon/losscon are independent of the M.A. and king mechanic in the game. I am very hesitant to believe this bit, though. | ||
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On June 19 2012 22:54 strongandbig wrote: He means your role name herp derp Fairly certain this is him claiming he doesn't have a role name... which cause me to not believe his claim. But we're losing track of the bigger picture. SnB: what do you think of Nisani? You say you don't think he's Maju's partner... so is he some 3rd party? Or town? Same question regarding KB. | ||
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On June 19 2012 20:49 EchelonTee wrote: Vote Count: (in order of voting) Nisani (5): dropbear, xsksc, hiropro, deconduo, Hyaach xsksc (3): nisani, tali, ET DropBear (4): Drazerk, Acro, KB, SnB KharadBanar (1): BioSC EchelonTee (1): FourFace Updated. HiroPro, xsksc: why are you voting for Nisani? FourFace: do you think your vote on ET is doing any good? Out of the realistic lynch candidates (hint: they are Nisani, xsksc, DropBear and I'd see KB as an outsider candidate) who do you want dead? | ||
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On June 20 2012 01:52 talismania wrote: so. anyone else think kb and nisani are both third party and have some sort of immunity against this possible vengeance thing? No, I think the lack of a name is because DropBear is LYING about his roleclaim and nobody is afraid of getting avenged. | ||
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On June 19 2012 21:54 Acrofales wrote: Was scum provided with false roleclaims? Also Votecount please? | ||
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On June 20 2012 02:16 Drazerk wrote: Wait why do you guys have names? Drazerk, you have your vote on DropBear and I'm too lazy to look through your filter for a motivation. What made you think he's scum before his bogus roleclaim? | ||
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On June 20 2012 02:59 KharadBanar wrote: ##Unvote: DropBear ##Vote: KharadBanar Hello Nisani | ||
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June 19 2012 18:05 GMT
#1001
Also: great job, Mr. King! Killing anti-town 3rd party is awesome. This also gives us more info on the MA and king deal! Now, can we kill DropBear please? | ||
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June 19 2012 18:09 GMT
#1006
On June 20 2012 03:06 talismania wrote: Uh. How does vengeful townie work again? I was under the impression that dropbear was supposed to die. Or else a vote manipulation power was employed. Fairly certain that what happened is the vote was a completely bogus mechanic that had us running around in circles. It also makes it DOUBLE CONFIRMED that DropBear's roleclaim was completely bogus: if there's no lynch, then there's also no vengeful townie mechanic. | ||
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June 19 2012 18:10 GMT
#1008
On June 20 2012 03:06 HiroPro wrote: So, this means the king and MA are probably on our side I think. And a new king gets picked every day? That's what I said in N0 based on my role pm, but then nobody believed me. | ||
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June 19 2012 18:12 GMT
#1013
On June 20 2012 02:57 FourFace wrote: FourFace to the rescue. I am If you guys have read the pre-game discussion it should come as no surprise that I'm bulletproof. Well, I'm the Insane Bulletproof Detective, at least that's what I think because Hiro returned anti-town. I am offering you guys my service in the form of a shield, meaning i'll be the last one to vote DropBear. My role PM clearly states that I can only be killed as the consequence of a lynch and another thing which I won't tell for the sake of my own safety. I am claiming now because this role is imba and scum can't touch me.. it is a bit gay actually but I'll make the best of it. ##Vote: DropBear I don't have a strong scum read on him but he's going to get lynched anyway. If your sanity is in question, I suggest you check DropBear tonight... that should give you more info on whether you're sane, insane or paranoid. Of course, I'm not sure I believe this roleclaim. A bulletproof cop seems retardedly powerful. | ||
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June 19 2012 18:18 GMT
#1020
On June 20 2012 03:10 FourFace wrote: KB was the king obviously .. king dies every day. Sad In that case KB's role pm is a bit strange. But it is a possibility... but only if the MA is not town, but a survivor-type deal. It doesn't go specifically against my role pm for that to be true, but it would be a VERY strange setup. | ||
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June 19 2012 18:22 GMT
#1023
On June 20 2012 03:18 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 20 2012 03:16 Zephirdd wrote: Every flavor is just flavor. Also Drazerk, you did not. So the king didn't decide the lynch??? But then why did KB die... Hrmmm... canthe now ex-king please speak up? I presume you are no longer in danger of evil assassins, because you're no longer king... | ||
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June 19 2012 18:24 GMT
#1024
It would be hilarious if KB's voteswitch caused him to get himself lynched. | ||
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June 19 2012 19:20 GMT
#1030
Of everybody, I want DropBear to die most. Overall he looks incredibly scummy and the chance of his roleclaim being a blatant lie on top of that is just too much and he must die. The problem I have with Nisani is still mainly his roleclaim. I'm not sure that's enough to merit shooting tonight. No harm in putting him up for lynch tomorrow, though: he's still scummier than everybody else, including the trio of lurk (hyaach, biosc and xsksc). Going to watch the football match now. Drazerk: England is going to lose against the Ukraine, lol. | ||
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June 19 2012 19:29 GMT
#1034
On June 20 2012 04:23 FourFace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 20 2012 04:20 Acrofales wrote: there is so much redundant information in the AMA's role pm. He didn't need to be told that any king could only be named once if the king got murdered at the end of the day. There's so much more aesthetic value to this because of it. Trust me .. I know beauty when I see it. It's not aesthetic beauty... it's just adding confusion: does it mean that a king can be chosen only once? Or does it mean that only once per game, the MA may repeat his choice for king? | ||
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June 19 2012 19:46 GMT
#1045
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June 19 2012 19:48 GMT
#1047
On June 20 2012 04:45 deconduo wrote: Well that was interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the king isn't claiming because KB was the king. Given how the votes were before KB switched his vote to himself it is clear he expected Nisani to get lynched when he posted this: Show nested quote + On June 20 2012 02:59 KharadBanar wrote: ##Unvote: DropBear ##Vote: KharadBanar Hello Nisani However that would only happen if there was some vote manipulation in play. He didn't have any from his role, so it could only happen if he got it from being king. However due to this being bastard mafia it backfired on him somehow. Dunno why he voted for himself and not for Nisani though, possibly some restriction with the king's role, and maybe thats why it backfired. Show nested quote + On June 20 2012 04:33 Drazerk wrote: Everyone in England hates the English football team. I was rooting for Ireland >.> And we all saw how that turned out Still, we win the award for best fans. No... I think he expected Nisani to die from DropBear's claimed vengeful crap (which I still think is bogus). | ||
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June 19 2012 19:56 GMT
#1056
On June 20 2012 04:52 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 20 2012 04:49 talismania wrote: My role says that "some" of the people who know about the MA want him dead, which suggests to me that there are multiple AMAs. Grand. So considering we have 15 players and only 2 scum, that probably means 2-3 third party. 3 AMAs seems a bit OP considering that they all have KP, so maybe 2 AMAs 1 survivor or something. Eh, we'll see that tomorrow when the KP is revealed. 3 KP in a 15 player game is pretty harsh... | ||
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June 19 2012 22:13 GMT
#1107
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June 19 2012 22:21 GMT
#1113
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June 20 2012 08:10 GMT
#1162
A quiet Drazerk is even worse than a trolling Drazerk. I'm sorry I doubted your glorious England, now please come back and play with us. Top 3 scum reads! Now! On setup speculation: while I don't like using mistakes by the host as a tell, I don't think he would've forgotten to update KB's vote on the final count if it was the only one that mattered. If the king doesn't know he's king, then HiroPro or BioSC are kingly options. Neither of these options make a lot of sense to me (HiroPro's post was too close to the deadline to read and decide upon, imho). That leaves: the king knows he was king. The only person to not post tonight is Hyaach and I doubt he was king. So either the king has some reason for not exposing himself (either he's not allowed to, or the king was scum/3rd party), or the king is dead. I presume the M.A. knows enough about the setup to be able to distinguish between these options and we'll figure it out tomorrow. If the king is a death sentence, then the minute this ability is used on a townie, that townie should just say so. The final suggestion was Talismania's: the king lynch is decided with the smiley face and the king cannot lynch the M.A. This seems farfetched, but it's not impossible. The possible presence of more than one A.M.A. means we shouldn't try to confirm this theory yet. Even the voicing of this possibility could've been shooting ourselves in the foot (and yeah, I also figured it out at the eureka post... just not the why you thought that). So that brings us back to scumhunting: DropBear, rather than proclaiming your innocence. KB was 3rd party, not scum, so your victory dance is completely unfounded. I don't think many people thought KB was town, but you unvoted him based on the Maju flip: that made no sense if you thought he was your strongest anti-town read. So yeah, DropBear, other than Nisani, who else do you think is scum. I want to hear more than just "Nisani must die". Nisani has not been fishing for the M.A, but rather for the king. I am completely unsure what to think of him at this point. And that brings us full circle to Drazerk: start playing! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 09:05 GMT
#1165
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 09:09 GMT
#1166
BioSc: lurker xsskddlal: null BnS: null (and by extension Drazerk null?) Nisani: didn't gain town cred (does that make him null? or scum?) DropBear: ??? (what do you actually think of your Koala neighbour?) | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 09:13 GMT
#1168
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 09:28 GMT
#1174
On June 20 2012 18:19 Drazerk wrote: Finally tali you said you was a one shot vigi why would they shoot you when it confirms me + dec? Well, mainly because it doesn't, because of the retarded way that sentence was phrased (still pisses me off). The post with the full logical proof is somewhere in my filter. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 09:35 GMT
#1176
On June 20 2012 18:16 Drazerk wrote: Also someone was going to lynch everyone without a name / using it as evidence against DB I just wanted to stop that from happening No... I'm perfectly happy to believe vanilla townies have no name. It'd be a bit like GoT mafia, where blue roles got fancy names (then again, so did scum and 3P), but VT were just "stark bannermen". It's also possible there are no VT in this game. Role names may be a completely random thing (meaning some red/blacks have names and some townies don't). I'm still thinking DropBear looks terrible (with or without the role name stuff). He is very defensive, but his actual scumhunting is nowhere to be found. He might be like Tunkeg, though. So focused on trying to defend himself, that he forgets that the way not to get lynched is to play actively and find scum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 10:21 GMT
#1178
On June 18 2012 02:27 BioSC wrote: Is it just me, or did the bastard voting thread say "votes before and after the deadline don't count"? *Phoenix Wright Point* I spy a conundrum! Yo Bio, you claiming here you are also Phoenix Wright? Or is this just a coincidence? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 10:48 GMT
#1179
Given this lack of content, I started digging a bit deeper. Earlier, we caught Majuju, based mainly on Hiro's excellent case, based on Maju's stance on Chezinu. Take a look at BioSC's opinion of Chezinu: it is exactly the same. Cautiously trying to gain information without actually giving an opinion one way or the other. Here are some gems from his filter: + Show Spoiler [Ho Hum, Bio Scum] + On June 17 2012 04:39 BioSC wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:28 Drazerk wrote: From this point on I am now ignoring any post that has anything to do with House Chezinu I advice everyone else does the same so we can play a normal game If the last Bastard game was any indication, this will be a bit stranger than a normal game. Speaking of this House Chezinu... You "guys" want a lot for giving not so much. Are you a mason group? Can you recruit? I'm staying cautiously positive atm. Unless you guys have cupcakes to offer, then I may change my stance =D On June 17 2012 14:27 BioSC wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 14:06 EchelonTee wrote: Isn't House Chezinu that 5th party mason circle from Aperture Mafia? Which means they are the good guys? Do you have a link/proof? For those of us bastards not in the loop? Not doubting you, just want as much info as possible. After this, there's only his case on KB, which was exactly enough to let him fly under the radar for all the rest of D1. Nothing else of use is in his filter, which would be pretty incriminating by itself, but lets look further. Go and look at this, his filter in his only other TL Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892&user=85763 Eeee gads! This filter is chock-a-block full of PBPA. He may have been wrong in Newbie XIII, but he was very VOCALLY wrong. Now look at his filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892&user=85763 Something tells me he learned from his newbie game: lurker scum wins... so he's giving it a try! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 10:49 GMT
#1180
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 12:04 GMT
#1186
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 12:05 GMT
#1187
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 16:18 GMT
#1195
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 16:54 GMT
#1207
On June 20 2012 17:10 Acrofales wrote: .... On setup speculation: while I don't like using mistakes by the host as a tell, I don't think he would've forgotten to update KB's vote on the final count if it was the only one that mattered. If the king doesn't know he's king, then HiroPro or BioSC are kingly options. Neither of these options make a lot of sense to me (HiroPro's post was too close to the deadline to read and decide upon, imho). That leaves: the king knows he was king. The only person to not post tonight is Hyaach and I doubt he was king. So either the king has some reason for not exposing himself (either he's not allowed to, or the king was scum/3rd party), or the king is dead. I presume the M.A. knows enough about the setup to be able to distinguish between these options and we'll figure it out tomorrow. If the king is a death sentence, then the minute this ability is used on a townie, that townie should just say so. The final suggestion was Talismania's: the king lynch is decided with the smiley face and the king cannot lynch the M.A. This seems farfetched, but it's not impossible. The possible presence of more than one A.M.A. means we shouldn't try to confirm this theory yet. Even the voicing of this possibility could've been shooting ourselves in the foot (and yeah, I also figured it out at the eureka post... just not the why you thought that). ..... | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 16:55 GMT
#1208
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 16:57 GMT
#1209
Either that, or he decided that if he was going down, he'd try to help out other scum factions by sending town into chaos trying to figure this king thing out. I still think scumhunting and finding people for our illustrious king to kill is the proper move here, rather than chasing our tails trying to figure out the setup: there simply isn't enough information (yet). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 17:40 GMT
#1211
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 18:17 GMT
#1220
I am a vigi. To be precise, I am Ezio Auditorie de Firenze and I shot BioSC. Breadcrumb is + Show Spoiler [here] + On June 20 2012 04:20 Acrofales wrote: Votecount looks normal. It means that either there was no doublevote/politician shenanigans, or those mechanics are hidden. Given this, I think the hypothesis that there was a king who got to choose the lynch is the most likely one atm. Something is wrong with 4F's theory that the king dies: there is so much redundant information in the AMA's role pm. He didn't need to be told that any king could only be named once if the king got murdered at the end of the day. Of everybody, I want DropBear to die most. Overall he looks incredibly scummy and the chance of his roleclaim being a blatant lie on top of that is just too much and he must die. The problem I have with Nisani is still mainly his roleclaim. I'm not sure that's enough to merit shooting tonight. No harm in putting him up for lynch tomorrow, though: he's still scummier than everybody else, including the trio of lurk (hyaach, biosc and xsksc). Going to watch the football match now. Drazerk: England is going to lose against the Ukraine, lol. On June 20 2012 19:48 Acrofales wrote: Tweedledeedledum, I have found a scum! After a quick look over BioSC's filter I don't think any other conclusion is possible. Ridiculously lacking in any useful content whatsoever. Given this lack of content, I started digging a bit deeper. Earlier, we caught Majuju, based mainly on Hiro's excellent case, based on Maju's stance on Chezinu. Take a look at BioSC's opinion of Chezinu: it is exactly the same. Cautiously trying to gain information without actually giving an opinion one way or the other. Here are some gems from his filter: + Show Spoiler [Ho Hum, Bio Scum] + On June 17 2012 04:39 BioSC wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 04:28 Drazerk wrote: From this point on I am now ignoring any post that has anything to do with House Chezinu I advice everyone else does the same so we can play a normal game If the last Bastard game was any indication, this will be a bit stranger than a normal game. Speaking of this House Chezinu... You "guys" want a lot for giving not so much. Are you a mason group? Can you recruit? I'm staying cautiously positive atm. Unless you guys have cupcakes to offer, then I may change my stance =D On June 17 2012 14:27 BioSC wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2012 14:06 EchelonTee wrote: Isn't House Chezinu that 5th party mason circle from Aperture Mafia? Which means they are the good guys? Do you have a link/proof? For those of us bastards not in the loop? Not doubting you, just want as much info as possible. After this, there's only his case on KB, which was exactly enough to let him fly under the radar for all the rest of D1. Nothing else of use is in his filter, which would be pretty incriminating by itself, but lets look further. Go and look at this, his filter in his only other TL Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892&user=85763 Eeee gads! This filter is chock-a-block full of PBPA. He may have been wrong in Newbie XIII, but he was very VOCALLY wrong. Now look at his filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892&user=85763 Something tells me he learned from his newbie game: lurker scum wins... so he's giving it a try! Sorry BioSC. I really liked your posts... I just thought you were scum. Blues shouldn't lurk I like Hiro's plan and unless someone can think of a reason why I should post my extra losscon before Nisani does, I'm waiting to see what Nisani has to say. Also, there was no king appointed?! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 18:20 GMT
#1221
On June 21 2012 03:09 talismania wrote: Thoughts on mass claim? I think there's just two anti-town left. Either that, or there's anti-town without straightforward KP. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 18:26 GMT
#1224
On June 21 2012 03:21 Drazerk wrote: Huh that breadcrumb is amazing And why me I'm glad you like it. And it was a bitch to come up with. I wanted you dead because I was pissed off about you not reading your role pm. After claiming you were town you went afk, which is highly suspicious for you. However, you came back during the night and I actually liked your posts, so I relented and looked for a different target. I figured DropBear and Nisani are major lynch candidates today, so figured I'd look into the people I hadn't looked closely yet. I almost changed my target to Nisani when BioSC started posting, but his posting style and the case were just so weird (and cute), that they confused me more than convinced me he was town. I couldn't find a scum motive for posting so weird, but it isn't exactly townie either. I then thought of you and remembered that strange posting styles can be employed by scum to seem inoccuous So I went through with the shot. Wrongly. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 19:38 GMT
#1242
On June 21 2012 04:16 Nisani201 wrote: Hi everyone! How about this: I wont talk today unless you all agree not to lynch me? If you're town, this is playing against your wincon. You are clearly not helping us solve the clusterfuck you got yourself into. So not talking today means we lynch you. In fact, to give this some extra punch: ##vote Nisani How's that for agreeing "not" to lynch you today? If you're scum, go right ahead and shut up all day. It'll make our lives incredibly easy! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 19:40 GMT
#1244
On June 21 2012 04:04 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 01:33 talismania wrote: Acrofales - you said you were going to be ready to claim in full D2. Is that still in the cards? Do it on the deadline I'm worried you're going to have a hit put on you. Why would mafia shoot Acrofales? He's been blindly tunnelling a townie all game and he just shot a detective. Sounds like the perfect person to keep alive. Good news, crazy koala dude. You're no longer my top scum read! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 19:41 GMT
#1245
On June 21 2012 04:40 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 04:38 Acrofales wrote: If you're scum, go right ahead and shut up all day. It'll make our lives incredibly easy! But wait, that would still be playing against my win-con! Are you biased towards town? Yes. You jelly? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 19:48 GMT
#1249
On June 21 2012 04:08 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 04:04 DropBear wrote: On June 21 2012 01:33 talismania wrote: Acrofales - you said you were going to be ready to claim in full D2. Is that still in the cards? Do it on the deadline I'm worried you're going to have a hit put on you. Why would mafia shoot Acrofales? He's been blindly tunnelling a townie all game and he just shot a detective. Sounds like the perfect person to keep alive. Possibly because he is the only person playing pro town But if he survives another day I kill him because he shouldn't be left alive at that stage. I'm not the only one playing pro-town. Give Tali and ET some credit here. Gonna go over ET's filter in a minute. Could be that ghost_403 shot him.. he was the only one to be suspicious of 4F. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:03 GMT
#1253
I know it's all wifom. I'm just throwing the theory out there before I look into ET and 4F/ghost's filter in detail. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:10 GMT
#1255
On June 21 2012 04:51 talismania wrote: Acro I'm still wanting to hear what your extra loss condition and all the stuff in your pm about king and MA. __________ Nisani is clearly MA? I don't understand this behavior from a scum perspective. You do understand this behaviour from a town perspective? There's a consensus that he must roleclaim or die. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but it's clearly going to happen, so might as well roll with it. A town Nisani should be trying to prevent a mislynch. He clearly has no interest in preventing a mislynch. Maybe his extra wincon was to outlive the AMA, so he doesn't give a fuck, or maybe he's scum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:24 GMT
#1258
On June 21 2012 04:51 talismania wrote: Acro I'm still wanting to hear what your extra loss condition and all the stuff in your pm about king and MA. __________ Nisani is clearly MA? I don't understand this behavior from a scum perspective. Forgot the first part of this post. Nisani is clearly not going to claim. There's nothing in my role pm that really gets anybody any further than they have... most of it has been disclosed. The reason my role pm says anything about the MA and the king is because, similarly to Tali, if I shot the person being made king by the MA, I would end up dead instead. My extra losscon is exactly that: if I die from trying to shoot the future king (at night he wouldn't be king yet), then I lose. I presume that means that if town wins I'd get a special mention as the derp who shot the king. I was also promised a "bonus" if I shot anti-town, but now I'll never know what that is. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:25 GMT
#1259
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:29 GMT
#1262
Then with all the night speculation that the king is someone who gets nominated to die, I didn't want to shoot into the people everybody thought was scummy, on the off chance that that theory was right (and they'd be prime lynch candidates anyway). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:41 GMT
#1263
SitRep as far as roles go: HiroPro --- ? Tali --- used dayvig Acro --- used vig Drazerk --- VT Ghost --- ? deconduo --- used objectivist DropBear --- vengeful townie Hyaach --- ? SnB --- ? xsksc --- unspecified blueclaim Nisani --- unspecified blueclaim ET --- dead medic BSC --- dead cop KB --- dead SK Maju --- dead scum | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:52 GMT
#1267
On June 21 2012 05:43 DropBear wrote: Acro why did you shoot BioSC when you were on my case the entire day? I've explained that twice already. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 20:56 GMT
#1269
On June 21 2012 05:52 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 05:41 Acrofales wrote: Fuck it. Mass claiming might be a pretty good idea at this point. There's 2 people who blueclaimed and both are a bit scummy and will probably be lynched. At least this way scum has to shoot them. They may do that anyway. SitRep as far as roles go: HiroPro --- ? Tali --- used dayvig Acro --- used vig Drazerk --- VT Ghost --- ? deconduo --- used objectivist DropBear --- vengeful townie Hyaach --- ? SnB --- ? xsksc --- unspecified blueclaim Nisani --- unspecified blueclaim ET --- dead medic BSC --- dead cop KB --- dead SK Maju --- dead scum Alright, I'll fullclaim in 30mins or so if nobody objects. I object. I want to hear from some other people first. The setup might make a mass claim rather risky and anybody with information on town maybe losing its edge should say why. Imho we don't really need the MA alive. The king is a fun mechanic, but as long as we can lynch by vote, we can win the game. However, there might be some info we're missing that makes the MA or some other role essential to keep hidden. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 21:53 GMT
#1284
On June 21 2012 06:20 DropBear wrote: I'm sick of making perfect sense and being told it makes me mafia. I spent all of yesterday defending myself against the most retarded case I have ever seen yet somehow getting the most votes. The person who pushed it the hardest just shot a detective and it's being shrugged off. Incidentally, you spelt Auditore incorrectly in your claim Acrofales. Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 03:17 Acrofales wrote: Damn it. I completely totally missed that shot I am a vigi. To be precise, I am Ezio Auditorie de Firenze and I shot BioSC. Blame Zephirdd for that, not me. I'm playing with the name he gave me. Who are you to claim my name is spelled wrong anyway? If I want to be Ezio Auditorie, I bloody well will be. Also, did you actually read the case I made on BioSC before deciding I was dumb for shooting him? I also waited for opinions from a number of people in the thread. Most people agreed that he was a scummy lurker and not a townie lurker. If you thought he was town why didn't you say so in the approx. 10 hours between my case and the shot? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:01 GMT
#1287
All I've gotten from you since the pressure is off is a load of butthurt wining, which is actually making me think you're scum again. Yes, I did some reevaluating during the night which made me think I might have put you too high on my scumometer. Now I'm thinking I was right after all. You're lucky Nisani exists or I'd still be sticking to you like a fly on honey (and none of your funky hats with corks would chase me away). Instead of crying about it, take the time to help out and prove you're actually town! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:03 GMT
#1288
On June 21 2012 06:59 DropBear wrote: Because you don't give your town reads at night. It makes people get shot. Could you explain the part in bold please Acrofales. Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 03:26 Acrofales wrote: However, you came back during the night and I actually liked your posts, so I relented and looked for a different target. I figured DropBear and Nisani are major lynch candidates today, so figured I'd look into the people I hadn't looked closely yet. I almost changed my target to Nisani when BioSC started posting, but his posting style and the case were just so weird (and cute), that they confused me more than convinced me he was town. I couldn't find a scum motive for posting so weird, but it isn't exactly townie either. I then thought of you and remembered that strange posting styles can be employed by scum to seem inoccuous So I went through with the shot. Wrongly. And Drazerk when I was still playing regularly Kenpachi had a 100% strike rate on hitting mafiosos as a vigilante. Explained (probably have to expand the inner quote). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:04 GMT
#1289
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:32 GMT
#1297
/shrug ##claim Ezio Auditorie de Firenze, the Assassin | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:39 GMT
#1299
On June 21 2012 05:15 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 05:10 Acrofales wrote: A town Nisani should be trying to prevent a mislynch. He clearly has no interest in preventing a mislynch. Maybe his extra wincon was to outlive the AMA, so he doesn't give a fuck, or maybe he's scum. Your post has inspired me to say something. I have decided I will help you guys scumhunt. Everyone who thinks I am the MA should say so now. This is important. Yo Nisani, I think you're MA! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 20 2012 22:49 GMT
#1303
On June 21 2012 07:42 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote: On June 21 2012 05:15 Nisani201 wrote: On June 21 2012 05:10 Acrofales wrote: A town Nisani should be trying to prevent a mislynch. He clearly has no interest in preventing a mislynch. Maybe his extra wincon was to outlive the AMA, so he doesn't give a fuck, or maybe he's scum. Your post has inspired me to say something. I have decided I will help you guys scumhunt. Everyone who thinks I am the MA should say so now. This is important. Yo Nisani, I think you're MA! ugh you don't count These people need to tell me if they think I am the MA: DropBear xsksc Drazerk Hyaach I totally count! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10... wait while I take off my shoes. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 07:26 GMT
#1369
Lynching Nisani still seems like the way to go for now. His play is not making any sense. Not making sense is not a scumtell, but it's certainly not townie either. I am currently also unsure what to think of xskskc. His investigation targets seem believable, but are also conveniently dead. 2 DTs in a 15player game seems strange (and we have 4F's DT claim too, which ghost repealed). Particularly, you'd think that if there really are 2 DTs, scum would have more tools than a single one-shot framer. Seeing as how we're mass claiming anyway, lets add in: Who was king yesterday and how does your role work? If you're king today and it wasn't in the daypost, please say so! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 08:25 GMT
#1370
On June 21 2012 13:08 Hyaach wrote: From my understanding of a breadcrumb, its something that will substantiate your role claim ? and his whole posting style is one big crumb really. lol So we should have magically deduced that his hearty cutesy posting style made him a My Little Pony... and from there drawn the conclusion that he was town? You need to have your eyes checked, I think you have a severe case of 20/20 hindsight. BioSC was lurking. His posts around Chezinu were bad and he had done nothing of use except follow the general opinion. I made a case, people agreed, so I shot him. How is that bad play? As I said to DropBear: coming in 15 hours later and yelling is NOT CONTRIBUTING. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 08:25 GMT
#1371
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 09:25 GMT
#1374
On June 21 2012 18:08 Hyaach wrote: I was along the lines of his post have major power slip in them. And his tone was to breadcrumb himself if he needed to claim. Why are you so defensive? Yes we can't tell him from his tone of typing and draw conclusion but FROM what he typed. Who agreed on BioSC's case? Can you link me the response which make you come to the conclusion that his is a scummy lurker and not just A lurker? I have no idea about bastard games, this is my first one. But would having 2 2 person scum teams and 3rd parties be unlikely? Maju was a scum cop and i refuse to believe we have two cops with almost identical PM. I'm not defensive, I'm angry. Here is why I thought he was scum. And here are the people who remarked on the situation: + Show Spoiler + Drazerk replies: On June 20 2012 19:53 Drazerk wrote: While I see your point about his lack of PBPA me and ET have been very vocal in our hatred for them so we might of scared him off. I still think he is scum because of his lurking / Chezinu stance but I think he is more of a 3rd/4th priority at the moment ET replies: On June 20 2012 22:00 EchelonTee wrote: I like biosc. I think he's scum but I like him. Not on a cpu atm, ill get back to you in the morning hiropro. And Talismania replies: On June 21 2012 01:23 talismania wrote: Ok a note on the king/setup business. If KB was king, he knew he was king. There can't have been any of this "he didn't know he was king" stuff because his role PM outright says that he gets told who the king is. My new theory is that the king's vote doesn't outright determine the vote, but the king gets to choose whose vote does. In this world, the king was cool with getting rid of dropbear and saw that kb was definitely going to vote for him, therefore he picked KB. Then at the last minute KB tried to get nisani killed with the switch onto himself (KB probably figured nisani for the MA and was trying to meet his wincon, it's really the only explanation for that switch) but ended up dying. _____________ @Drazerk I am powerless now but I still would be a decent night kill because I'm not getting lynched anytime soon and I'm driving a lot of discussion. ______________ BioSC you look hilariously scummy. _______________ @ghost... what? I kinda believed his claim since the part about hiropro made complete sense given how paranoid fourface was about hiro at the beginning of D1. What are you? The only one who thought Bio looked townish was ghost, but he was (and still is) pretty high on my scumometer himself, so I didn't trust that too much: On June 21 2012 01:25 ghost_403 wrote: BioSC looked townish to me, but that came mostly from the reading of the House Chezinu situation early on in the game. Past that, I didn't really notice anything significant about him. DropBear didn't make it on my spreadsheet until I looked at the players list. Points to terrible townie or lurking scum. As we can see, out of these, one flipped town, and Tali is pretty townie in my eyes too. I still have my doubts about Drazerk, but more on that later. Your setup speculation: it is entirely possible for there to be 2 2person scumteams. Note, that xksksksksc claims alignment cop, not rolecop. Not that that means he's town, in a setup with 2 scumteams and 3rd party, an alignment cop can be an excellent tool for scum to find the other scumteam. The only problem is the KP. Unless ET got doublestacked, there should've been 2 KP if there's 2 scumteams left. Only 1 KP was used. The other possibility is ET blocking a shot while getting killed himself, but nobody has claimed getting shot. If ET stopped a shot, would the target be notified? Also, how does the "HEAVY" being notified of the shot part work? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 09:26 GMT
#1375
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 09:30 GMT
#1377
On June 21 2012 05:09 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 05:03 Acrofales wrote: I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm saying ET was killed by Maju's partner (the only KP we know exists). That could be 4F/ghost. 4F never really convinced me, but I haven't made up my mind either way yet. Just throwing this theory out there: ET could've been killed because he was on to something and the only real suspicion he had mentioned that wasn't generally held opinion is 4F/Ghost. I know it's all wifom. I'm just throwing the theory out there before I look into ET and 4F/ghost's filter in detail. This doesn't make sense because maju made his case D1 against fourface and was trying to get him lynched. Maju was in Holy Roman and has seen how Mattchew busses his scumbuddies like a pro on D1. I wouldn't count 4F out... I went over his filter again and there is not much to recommend it being townie. Lets put it this way: if shitting up the thread is a mafia characteristic, 4F is the king of mafia. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 09:44 GMT
#1378
On June 21 2012 18:30 Hyaach wrote: I wouldn't claim before Nisani201 is dead or full claimed. that's all I'm saying. Interesting. Why the fear of Nisani? You think he's going to shoot you during the day? One of the points of the mass claim is to verify Nisani's soft claim of MA (he has vehemently denied being everything else we've accused him of being, but is silent on the MA part). If someone had it in for the MA and could use a dayshot, Nisani would've been dead at daybreak. He's not, so if anybody is still after the MA, he's not a dayvig and has to wait until night. I am also not a big fan of lynching the MA. The more I think of it, the less sense it makes for the MA to be anti-town. So regardless of how weird Nisani is playing (note that he's playing weird from a scum perspective as well), if he is in fact the MA, I'd prefer not to lynch him, as it's probably a mislynch. The reasons I think the MA is town: 1. If I shot the king, I lost the game. I'm town, therefore the king is a townie mechanic. Given that the MA appoints the king (also in my role pm), the MA must be town, because giving a town mechanic to a malicious 3rd party makes no sense at all. 2. The AMA was an anti-town 3rd party with a KP. It makes no sense from a balance perspective for the MA to be another anti-town 3rd party without direct KP (if he has night KP, it's absent from N1). If 4F's theory was right, and the MA is out to kill the AMA by crowning him king, then town is left without actual KP until this war is over. That would be completely unbalanced and no fun to be playing as town. Ockham's razor says that we are overthinking it and the MA is a town blue role. So, if Nisani is the MA and nobody actually counterclaims, then lynching Nisani is a bad idea, regardless of how scummy he's playing (and he is playing very scummy... the whole "lynch me because my wincon has been fulfilled" was terrible stacked on already shoddy play). TLDR: lets complete this mass claim and verify Nisani as the MA. Then lynch xksksksks or ghost_90210 and let scum deal with Nisani? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 09:56 GMT
#1379
+ Show Spoiler [start of the extra wincon / losscon:] + On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you want me to claim? I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives. On June 19 2012 05:24 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:21 talismania wrote: On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you want me to claim? I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives. It's ok I guess I don't expect you to claim. But what's this extra win extra loss stuff? I don't see how you can extra lose. Can you give us a hint as to your various wincons? I can't say much without revealing my role. All you need to know is that it 100% aligns with town objectives. I'm not really sure how the "extra win" and "extra loss" works either, but I'm guessing that I can sort of get a double-win, or not lose nor win in the same game depending on the combination. So extra win or loss, based on something he is not saying. + Show Spoiler [knowledge of king/MA:] + On June 19 2012 05:33 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:32 talismania wrote: Nisani, what do you know about the king and monarchist activist? I don't know anything more than what was posted my you and Acrofales. On June 19 2012 05:46 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2012 05:44 talismania wrote: On June 19 2012 05:39 Nisani201 wrote: Why do you keep asking me these questions? Because I want to know? And I have a gun? Do you know of any other factions? If your wincon is town-aligned, then maybe us in town can help you out. Did your pm contain any info on the king and MA at all? No I don't know about any other factions, and my role PM didn't have any information about monarchs or monarchist activist. Claims his role pm didn't contain anything about the MA/King. This is clearly in direct contradiction with actually being the MA. So here he claims not-MA. + Show Spoiler [more on his wincon] + On June 19 2012 17:21 Nisani201 wrote: Also in response to acro, my extra win con is nothing like the glados lynching thing from aperture. It does not remove me from the game and it doesn't require other people in the thread to do anything special. On June 21 2012 14:21 Nisani201 wrote: In case you guys are wondering, I already fulfilled my extra win condition. All that's left is for you guys to kill the anti-town people, allowing me to get a double-win! This is the most interesting bit: his wincon doesn't require people to do anything special and has already been fulfilled. If he had to kill the AMA then this would make sense: the AMA is dead. Nisani: if your extra wincon is fulfilled, why don't you want to fullclaim? Why are you deliberately withholding information from town that can no longer hurt you? We've been starved for info on the MA/king and if you are in fact the MA, you can clarify it all, but are choosing not to (insofar as I understand the game, just to fuck with town). If you are not the MA, you can clarify your wincon, because you've already fulfilled it and we can go on from there. As is, you're withholding information on the setup from a town that desperately needs information on the setup. I wish we could pull the lynch forward and kill you right now. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 10:14 GMT
#1381
The day post doesn't say anything about a king being chosen (which it did say on D1), so it seems likely that there is no king today. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 10:33 GMT
#1383
Nisani, were you roleblocked last night? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 10:37 GMT
#1384
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 12:36 GMT
#1385
Looking at Drazerk, deconduo and xsksksc here. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 12:40 GMT
#1387
On June 21 2012 21:38 strongandbig wrote: Hiro, in your mass claim plan are we claiming all our role information like powers or wincons, or are we just claiming role names at first? You think there's stuff in your role pm that can hurt town if disclosed? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 12:59 GMT
#1389
On June 21 2012 21:53 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 21:36 Acrofales wrote: Come on, the rest of you Europeans. Wake up! Looking at Drazerk, deconduo and xsksksc here. I'm here and I already claimed ages ago remember. You could comment on stuff. What do you think of the plan to mass claim? What do you think of xksksksksc's cop claim? Is Hyaach town? For instance, that's just 3 questions that popped into my head for you. I'm sure you have plenty more to say. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 13:12 GMT
#1392
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 13:14 GMT
#1393
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 13:59 GMT
#1395
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 14:00 GMT
#1396
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 14:19 GMT
#1400
Okay, that leaves SnB, who appears to have gone awol again and then the troublesome pair of Hiro and Nisani. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 16:39 GMT
#1415
So, if I get this right, we have: Totally confirmed town: Acro - vig Virtually confirmed town: Tali - day vig Deconduo - lie detector Claimed town: xskckskskwi - cop DropBear - vengeful? Hyaach - roleblock Drazerk - vt Claimed survivor: ghost_90210 HiroPro S&B Claimed TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL: Nisani If there is really only 1 KP flying around, as it is starting to look like, I vote we lynch Nisani, the MA and win the 3rd parties who are lying about their wincon the game. Then one of the townies gets shot. Then we lynch xksksllsewissls because his roleclaim is bogus. Then either we win the game, or another townie gets shot. If at this point town has not yet lost the game, then it's almost certainly lylo and we can figure out what to do from there onwards. Anyway, lynching Nisani and roleblocking xksksks seems to be the way to go for now. Hypothetical situation: if there is a roleblocker, can scum KP be roleblocked? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 16:45 GMT
#1420
On June 22 2012 01:41 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 01:38 ghost_403 wrote: Well, now, there's an interesting response. Because I'm a neutral survivor, I don't really care about which side wins. But, as a survivor, what I do want is a short game, which means that it's in my best interest to be gunning for one side or the other. Being bulletproof, scum can't kill me, so that means I should be playing as pro-town as possible in this game. You don't care. Why's that? Because I'm not bulletproof lol. If someone decides that I'm being too helpful to town, they can kill me. To be fair, if your roleclaim is in any way true, time is running out for scum. There's probably 1 scum, and possibly 1 3rd party hiding in the dodgy roleclaims. They can't afford to shoot 3rd party. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 19:35 GMT
#1438
On June 22 2012 03:00 Drazerk wrote: If you could win alone as town I'd probably just murder everyone Hiro Drazerk and I are alike in many aspects. We both post proliferously We are both Europeans And given the choice we would both murder everybody. This time I'm hoping Drazerk is town, instead of a backstabbing scum bastard. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 19:35 GMT
#1439
On June 22 2012 04:29 Nisani201 wrote: If everyone has claimed already then I will claim. Is there anyone who hasn't claimed yet? No. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 19:57 GMT
#1448
On June 22 2012 04:54 Nisani201 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 04:48 talismania wrote: well he's third party which is good to know. can we please lynch into xsksc/hyaach/dropbear? who do people want out of these three? No. I am getting lynched today. I'm not giving you guys any information unless I can be sure that I am lynched. You know that if you're getting lynched we're already GETTING your information, right? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 19:59 GMT
#1454
@Nisani: why did you make Hiro king? Were you that taken in by his chezinu deal? @Hiro: that makes you look like the second scumteam. You claim you're helping town, but you could've helped us by saying this earlier. Instead you waited until Nisani figured it was time to tell us. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:00 GMT
#1456
On June 22 2012 04:57 Nisani201 wrote: How does this sound... Plurality lynch. Every day, with no King nonsense. You can get that if you lynch me. We can get that if we kill scum now too and win the game. Also, we could just roleblock you ad infinitum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:03 GMT
#1458
That means we should lynch xsksksks, DropBear, Drazerk, or Hyaach (in order of preference) today. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:13 GMT
#1462
On June 22 2012 05:00 HiroPro wrote: lol, i didn't know. I didn't receive anything telling me I was king. Nisani, is Hiro lying? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:25 GMT
#1468
There is a 3rd party (I can see no reason for town to use this role), who can completely annul the town KP and nobody knows who will decide the lynch except that 3rd party. Basically Nisani could give the KP to xksksksks tomorrow, then DropBear the day after and we'd be fucked. I don't see much choice but to lynch him today, or roleblock him ad infinitum (which relies on Hyaach being town). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:53 GMT
#1473
Now. Lets start thinking about the future. Who is the final scum? Options: Currently not under suspicion: Acro <--- town. Tali <--- negligible chance. He claimed town vigi and shot his scumbuddy? Unlikely. There is also the deconduo lie detector and his overall townie play. Deconduo <--- despite his horrible use of the lie detector and general disinterest in playing the game, it just seems improbable that he's scum. Hiro/S&B <--- if they're anti-town, they're anti-town together and definitely not Maju's single scumbuddy. Suspicions: Drazerk <---- the reason he's not in the "above suspicion" list is because he didn't read his role PM before the lie detector. He looked townie through that, but it's easy to play townie if you don't have a clue what you are. The fact that he claimed VT and nobody else did makes him the least suspicious of everybody in here. Hyaach <--- claimed roleblocker and has been confirmed as roleblocker. The question is whether he's TOWN roleblocker, though. His play was giving me a null read up until now, but the rolename is more scummy (in GoT mafia: Tyrion was scum) than townie. Additionally, roleblockers are more likely to be given to scum than to town. On the fence here. Ghost <--- bulletproof survivor. His predecessor played like he didn't give a shit about the game. Spamming up the thread with well.. stuff. Ghost is better, but hasn't really done much either, except make this claim. It was the first roleclaim that I actually believed initially, though. On the fence here too. Downright scummy: | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 21 2012 20:54 GMT
#1474
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 07:28 GMT
#1503
Acro, Tali, deconduo, Drazerk, Hyaach, ghost and HiroPro are the first 7 votes on DropBear in any order. 8th is xksksksksc 9th is S&B 10th is Nisani DropBear votes for Nisani (if there's secret king shenanigans and DropBear is king, then Nisani still dies). What this accomplishes: if all goes to plan, DropBear is scum, dies and we win the game. Chance of DropBear being town and his roleclaim being true, Nisani and DropBear both die and we can decide which of Drazerk, Hyaach and xkskskskc are the final scum. If Nisani does any shenanigans crap, we have a buffer: if DropBear is town, then a claimed 3rd party survivor dies and HiroPro is confirmed as a neutral 3rd party. We roleblock Nisani and lynch him tomorrow. If both Nisani and S&B do shenanigans then our most scummy town-claimer dies. Personally, I think everybody should go along with this plan. Oh, Hiro and S&B: if Hiro prefers to be the martyr, I'm okay with that deal too. I have just been liking his play more this game and would prefer him to stick around The risks: To town: we lynch a townie DropBear who lied about his roleclaim and are stuck with Nisani tomorrow as well... one day closer to lylo. Also can't try to roleblock the scum. To Nisani: none as far as I can see. You want to die? We want you dead! Lets do this without wasting a day of lynching! To Hiro/S&B: you're the ones I'm afraid won't go along with this, but I think you should. The risk to you is very small: the only situation one of you dies in, is if DB is town and his roleclaim is true (small chance) AND Nisani decides to screw you over (he has been claiming he wants to die all day now to avoid his second losscon). If you agree with me that the chance of these two events occurring together are very tiny, then you stand to gain: heaps of towncred! If you don't get lynched, you win and town likes you. If you do get lynched then your partner is confirmed and we're no longer worrying about you perhaps being a scum team. To xksksks: if you're town you'll go along with the plan. If you're scum, you'll also go along with the plan, because the chance of being killed is virtually 0. You're just the final backup buffer. Lets do this! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 08:27 GMT
#1507
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 08:45 GMT
#1508
On June 22 2012 16:55 xsksc wrote: Sound's fine to me, I hope those people hurry up and vote though, I haven't slept yet. Isn't it 9:40 in Scotland? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 09:29 GMT
#1511
On June 22 2012 18:09 xsksc wrote: What do you think of my proposal, Acro? It depends a lot on who dies and what they flip what I think of the proposal. If town wins, then your proposal doesn't matter. If Nisani dies then I'm not sure it isn't just safer to roleblock you (if Hyaach is mafia he'll roleblock you anyway and if you're a mafia goon then roleblocking you prevents a NK and catches us a scum). But lets talk about your roleclaim. I don't automatically agree with Tali that you're scummy for not jumping on 4F (BioSC didn't either), you did say this, after all: FourFace's bulletproof DT looks really overpowered. He also tells us who he plans to investigate, which is insanely careless and gives off the impression that he doesn't give a fuck. I don't believe him. And it was night and revealing a blue role at night is not something you want to do (by day ghost had already said the claim was bullshit). So I don't really think this is a reason to nail you to the cross. However, BioSC flipped DT and giving town two DTs in a 15player game seems like a very strange setup. Do you have any insight into why we should believe your roleclaim? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 09:35 GMT
#1513
On June 22 2012 18:34 strongandbig wrote: Okay wait hiro why would we go along with any plan that involves one of us dying? It puts all our chances in he basket of hoping scum are playing reasonably, which I'm not sure I'm comfortable with. This is why: To Hiro/S&B: you're the ones I'm afraid won't go along with this, but I think you should. The risk to you is very small: the only situation one of you dies in, is if DB is town and his roleclaim is true (small chance) AND Nisani decides to screw you over (he has been claiming he wants to die all day now to avoid his second losscon). If you agree with me that the chance of these two events occurring together are very tiny, then you stand to gain: heaps of towncred! If you don't get lynched, you win and town likes you. If you do get lynched then your partner is confirmed and we're no longer worrying about you perhaps being a scum team. What is it, exactly, that you're afraid of? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 10:00 GMT
#1516
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 10:06 GMT
#1518
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 10:30 GMT
#1519
You may check a player every night, and receive "Nothing", "Vigilante", "Medic", "Detective" or "Weird". You are sane, although you have some very long arms which makes your clothes require unique measurement. This makes the whole Hyaach situation really weird, because personally I don't think a roleblocker is a weird role at all. I can imagine this was done, because they didn't want to give hints about the potential roles in the game (other than the ones outlined in the OP), however, he IS explicitly notified about vigilantes, who are also not mentioned in the OP. That leaves a rather plausible explanation: Hyaach is Maju's scumbuddy. He is, in fact, a roleblocker (I don't think there's much doubt of that, because Nisani was roleblocked). However, Maju would never bother checking him, because he is his scumbuddy. So there was no need to add "roleblocker" as a possible role to be checked by the scummy rolecop! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 10:32 GMT
#1520
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:11 GMT
#1524
On June 22 2012 19:50 Hyaach wrote: No idea about Maju's PM at all. But it really makes me look ugly as fuck. Been on him since day one. I know his 3rd party, I don't know what power he has so I roleblocked him. Voting thread says alot of stuff. Voting thread says you think he's scummy. It doesn't say much about your motivations for roleblocking him. I also wanted you to voice it. How things are said is often as important as what is said. Unfortunately, in this case I got nothing from it | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:12 GMT
#1525
On June 22 2012 19:36 DropBear wrote: Check the voting thread oh glorious confirmed townie. G'day mate! What do you think of the guy you decided to answer for here? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:19 GMT
#1526
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:24 GMT
#1528
On June 22 2012 21:21 Hyaach wrote: I've been vocal about my opinion of him. I suspected his 3rd party. I don't know what power he has and before his dead, I will tunnel him. Who do you suggest was a better target for roleblock last night? my guts read on xskxk? my null read on on BnS? or my 3rd party read on nisani201? No... I completely agree with roleblocking Nisani. I would probably have done it too. I just wanted to know why YOU did it. The problem is that if you're scum, you know Nisani isn't, so from a scum perspective roleblocking someone suspected of being the MA makes a lot of sense. I was hoping your reason would include something about the MA. It doesn't, hence null. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:37 GMT
#1533
On June 22 2012 21:25 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 21:12 Acrofales wrote: On June 22 2012 19:36 DropBear wrote: On June 22 2012 19:32 Acrofales wrote: Hyaach: why did you roleblock Nisani? Check the voting thread oh glorious confirmed townie. G'day mate! What do you think of the guy you decided to answer for here? He made a case. He voted on this case. He roleblocked on this case. He is making sense. He claimed roleblocker and that he roleblocked Nisani. Nisani claims he was roleblocked. There is no King today according to the daypost. It all checks out. I can't see why he would roleblock Nisani if he was Mafia, Nisani was a major target. So... he's making sense. Is he scum? Or town? He would roleblock Nisani, because everything at night pointed towards him being the Monarchist Activist and everything up until that point (except Nisani's actual behaviour) pointed towards the MA being a townie role. What is there not to understand about that? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:39 GMT
#1534
On June 22 2012 21:29 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 21:24 Acrofales wrote: On June 22 2012 21:21 Hyaach wrote: I've been vocal about my opinion of him. I suspected his 3rd party. I don't know what power he has and before his dead, I will tunnel him. Who do you suggest was a better target for roleblock last night? my guts read on xskxk? my null read on on BnS? or my 3rd party read on nisani201? No... I completely agree with roleblocking Nisani. I would probably have done it too. I just wanted to know why YOU did it. The problem is that if you're scum, you know Nisani isn't, so from a scum perspective roleblocking someone suspected of being the MA makes a lot of sense. I was hoping your reason would include something about the MA. It doesn't, hence null. Your actions and posting suggests otherwise. You had me as number 1 scumread and you shot BioSC. If you are mafia you are doing a good job sir. If you aren't you are a total idiot. Okay, you're right. I might not have done it too. I'm thinking with 20/20 hindsight. Sorry. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 12:40 GMT
#1535
On June 22 2012 21:34 DropBear wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 21:30 ghost_403 wrote: Alright, I'm down with the Acro-Tali-DropBear Initiative. ##Unvote Nisani201 ##Vote DropBear Why am I like the only person declaring my vote in thread? Also, bbl. Acrofales didn't have anything to do with it why is he getting credit? Tali made the plan, you sheeped the plan, I hammered out the final details. But yeah, I don't care about credit, I just want people to follow it. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:04 GMT
#1542
On June 22 2012 23:10 talismania wrote: ok I voted dropbear but I feel kinda like it's dumb now that he himself came up with that idea. scum shouldn't do that. numbers-wise if he's town that will leave us at 4 v 1 v 3 tomorrow I think which is actually a situation where the third party players could ostensibly help the scum player if they felt like it. unless my math is wrong. =/ on hyaach that's a good catch acro with maju's pm. If I were scum though I wouldn't have roleblocked nisani given how disorienting the king situation was. Then again maybe he saw the mass claim coming? dunno. I'm not sold on the idea anymore either, but I can't clear DropBear in my mind. There's just too much in his posting that doesn't feel right from a town perspective. I realize my cases from yesterday are now outdated, so I'll just sum up my current feelings. 1. He is extremely defensive, acting all up-in-your-face at anybody (mainly me) who accuses him. While I recognize this a bit from my own play (regardless of alignment), I usually defend myself once and then shrug off further accusations as town, while as scum I pad my filter replying ad infinitum. DropBear's posting style feels more like the latter than the former. 2. He is not reading the thread well at all. He repeatedly asks questions that have already been answered. This is definitely not townie. It clogs up the thread with repetitions. Additionally scum generally does not pay as much attention to the details of the game: they already know who's town and scum (this does not quite work in this game). 3. His roleclaim still doesn't sit well. Vengeful townie is an easy claim to make as scum as it has a pretty good chance of scaring townies into not voting. I am just very doubtful about the truthfulness of the claim. 4. He keeps pointing to his contributions this game as if that makes him town. It doesn't. His attitude has not been to proactively scumhunt, but reactively make a case on the most damnable player around. These happened to be 3rd party, so he was happy to comply. However, there are some redeeming qualities that reduce the whole scumfactor: 1. His explanation of how Maju's flip made KB less scummy in his eyes. Not the explanation itself (which is nonsense), but the way he insists on this explanation and how it changed his mind. His behaviour on this point seems like a townie defense, not a scum one. 2. His pro-plan attitude. He even suggested it... not sure he suggested it as a new idea, or as a reintroduction of Tali's idea, but he posted it at a time to give it extra reinforcement. I don't see a scum motive on how this can be a good idea. The only scum motive is the kind of thing Drazerk would do: because we don't see a scum motive, we think it's a town thing to do and don't lynch him. It's a giant gamble, but plausible. It's also wifom. The Ockham's razor explanation is: it's a townie thing to do. However, the long and the short of it is that I don't think we can allow DropBear to live. We are never going to make up our minds about him. There are plenty of reasons to suspect him of being scum and it's basically a win/win scenario: if he's scum, he dies. If he's town, we get rid of the speculation around him (lets face it, scum won't kill him and we'll have him left at lylo) and kill Nisani in the process. I see no downside. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:20 GMT
#1545
On June 22 2012 23:16 talismania wrote: shit third party survivors are annoying. might be best to just get rid of them and force the scum to shoot into town to eliminate options even if it takes us to lylo. let me think. 4v1v3 then 3v1v2 then 2v1v1 ugh no that's just icky nevermind. For scum to get survivors on his side, he would have to claim. As it is now, survivors know as much as town does, which is that there is a scum hiding in: ghost, hyaach, dropbear and xssksksc. The survivors are pretty astute mafia players (well, hiro and S&B are... I have no history with ghost), so they may figure stuff out before we do, but in general we can assume town and survivors have the same info about who's scum. So survivors playing on the scum side of things only really helps them if scum can hand them an ironclad victory by claiming. The only one who has extra info is ghost, who knows of himself whether he's scum or not. However, how is not lynching DB a better option, unless we are actually convinced he's town? I've gone through the math, and DB being a vengeful townie does not delay lylo and does eliminate a candidate for the final scum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:27 GMT
#1546
On June 23 2012 00:10 Drazerk wrote: Except if he isn't the only scum left and nisani controls the lynch forever meaning we lose... But leaving DB alive doesn't change that. Nisani only controls the lynch if he jumps off AND Hyaach doesn't roleblock him again tomorrow. We know Hyaach is a roleblocker. We don't know that he's town. However, Nisani getting roleblocked again tonight if he somehow survives, would guarantee him being town Okay, changed plan to avoid that crap VOTE Scheme: Nisani: DropBear, Drazerk, Tali, Acro, Hyaach (5) DropBear: deconduo, HiroPro, ghost, xskskc, Nisani (5) xksksc: S&B (1) This way we are guaranteed a Nisani lynch. If Nisani does shitty shenanigans and jumps off, DB lives and Nisani dies all the same. All we have to do is make sure that DB has the votes before Nisani does. I am happy to wait until the votes are ready. It also removes any risk to anybody except Nisani and DropBear getting lynched! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:30 GMT
#1547
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:35 GMT
#1550
Nisani: DB, Drazerk, Hyaach DB: Acro, Hiro, deconduo, ghost, Tali Not voted: xksksksc, Nisani, S&B TODO LIST xksksc: vote for Nisani (sorry for keeping you awake ) Nisani: vote for DropBear S&B: vote for somebody else When these votes are in, I will switch to Nisani to create the situation outlined above. Nisani and DB will have 5 votes each, but DB will have them first, so will be up for lynch. If Nisani tries any shenanigans, he will have more votes than DB and be up for lynch. If anybody else tries any shenanigans they will either be last on DB (and if DB is town telling the truth that means dead upon lynch) or nothing will change. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:37 GMT
#1551
[b]TODO LIST xkskcc: go to sleep Nisani: vote for DropBear S&B: vote for somebody else. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:38 GMT
#1552
Just to make sure I'm not miscounting | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:46 GMT
#1557
On June 23 2012 00:40 ghost_403 wrote: Wait, I'm confused. (Not changed my vote confused, just "why are we here again" confused.) Why are we playing shenanigans with the votes again? Drazerk's objection to the DropBear lynch seemed to be based around the fact that he thought it was more important to lynch Nisani. So how does lynching DropBear this way fix that? Drazerk absolutely wants Nisani to die. I agree that Nisani's death is a good thing. However, killing just Nisani puts us at a possible lylo tomorrow with 3 very scummy candidates. Killing DB in addition gives us a good chance at killing scum (I still think he's scum and lying about his roleclaim) and in the strange situation where he's not, he avenges himself and kills Nisani: 2 birds with one stone. However, Nisani COULD screw this up and then, if DB is in fact town (if he's scum then who cares what Nisani does), Nisani is alive to wreak havoc, while town is no nearer to its wincon (having killed xskskckskc or S&B with DB). The NEW voting system absolutely 100% ensures Nisani's death (unless at least 4 people collude to screw it up). If Nisani cooperates, it kills DB together with Nisani. If Nisani doesn't cooperate, it just kills him and leaves DB alive. If somebody else doesn't cooperate we know he's anti-town and can lynch him tomorrow (Nisani will still be dead). In the NEW voting system the only scenario in which Nisani doesn't die, is if DB is scum. I consider that a win all the same. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:48 GMT
#1558
Nisani, please vote for DB now! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:51 GMT
#1560
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:53 GMT
#1561
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 15:55 GMT
#1562
Damn it, Nisani. Why are you afk. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 16:29 GMT
#1568
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 16:29 GMT
#1569
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 16:51 GMT
#1576
Oh, DB, please be scum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 17:34 GMT
#1582
On June 23 2012 02:13 talismania wrote: It would be hilarious if deconduo is scum and almost completely got himself killed by asking me to post what I posted. Maybe that's how you win with scum, do something incredibly stupid and against your wincon, have it fail for completely accidental reasons, and then get enormous towncred when everyone figures out why you couldn't have done what you did if you were scum. Regardless it feels like we're lynching a townie but at least we get to see what nisani's role pm is I guess. It would actually be really funny if the game just ends because nisani already met a wincon once he dies O.O Maybe that's why he's keen on being offed. Agreed, but lynching Nisani is a waste of a lynch, other than discovering his role pm and getting rid of someone who can completely screw over town. He's playing like a 3rd party and I don't trust him to nominate a king in any way that helps town. So that means Maju's scumbuddy is hiding in these 4 people: DB, hyaach, ghost and xkslskls We HAVE to narrow this group down asap. As you said, the happy 3rd parties could flip to help scum at any time it suits their wincon better. The easiest way of finding scum in a group of scummy people is by lynching into them. In this case, it's basically a "free" lynch, because we HAVE to kill Nisani (or scum). If, at this point, Nisani was already dead, I would probably prefer to lynch ghost than any of the other people in the group (including DB), but killing ghost might just give us a survivor kill and leave Nisani alive to wreak havoc. I also have a tricky plan on how to narrow down the options at night, using the claimed roles. I need to think through all the implications, but I think it works out pretty well. I'll think it through and post it after the nightpost. And yes, DB, my reads tend to be pretty hit and miss. I'm working on learning to read people (in HR I was pretty good (except for Drazerk), in Newbie VIII I was terrible, as Hiro can attest. Those are my 2 most recent games). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 17:48 GMT
#1584
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:03 GMT
#1586
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:04 GMT
#1587
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:06 GMT
#1590
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:08 GMT
#1594
So the following night actions allow us to eliminate some of the possibilities: xkksslsls checks Hyaach Hyaach roleblocks Ghost Lets go through the possible outcomes: If ghost is scum, then the NK is roleblocked (unless he's extra-lying about his role and he has an action in addition to his role, but this is true regardless of who is roleblocked. Regular scumhunting has to augment the role-based reads) If Hyaach is scum, then he is getting checked. If xksksksksc is roleblocked then Hyaach gets lynched, otherwise we take the cop info along in our scumhunting. That eliminates a number of scenarios. Lets go through the outcomes: 1. xllslsks says Hyaach is red and there is no NK: WIFOM central! Ignore everything and back to scumhunting 2. xñsñslñss says Hyaach is green and there is no NK: we lynch ghost and win the game 3. xkxklxlks says Hyaach is red and there is a NK: Hyaach and xksksks are prime suspects, ghost less so (but still possible) 4. xlxlxlx says Hyaach is green and there is a NK: WIFOM central! Ignore everything and back to scumhunting As far as I could figure out, this combo of night actions gives us the best shot at downright nailing a scum and a decent shot at narrowing down the options. Not saying it's the best, just that I can't think of a better option. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:10 GMT
#1596
On June 23 2012 03:07 Drazerk wrote: No it was a pretty big scum role even if he did win with town No. He could have used it as either. Him being town he could have used it as town. The AMA was DEAD. We could have discussed who should be king the next day. It's like having a mayor election every night, except Nisani gets to decide if town is being derps. Even if scum keeps hitting the king, it reverts to plurality lynch, so /shrug. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:11 GMT
#1597
On June 23 2012 03:10 HiroPro wrote: Did Nisani even get an extra win? Cause KB wasn't technically anti-town. KB was technically anti-town. Read his role pm. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:13 GMT
#1600
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:16 GMT
#1602
On June 23 2012 03:12 talismania wrote: does RB block night kill? I would think it would just block the bulletproof. Also, do you really think maju was bussing when he posted his case on fourface? Was he just being clever, hoping that the case would never build any momentum? Third party people: will you help us if the last scum claims? It will end the game much more quickly and you still get to win :-) :-) :-) Mods obliged us with an answer On June 22 2012 05:25 Zephirdd wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 01:39 Acrofales wrote: Hypothetical situation: if there is a roleblocker, can scum KP be roleblocked? Only if said scum does not have/does not use another action that night. In essence, a roleblocker stops One ability, where "Role" ability takes priority over "Faction" ability. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:30 GMT
#1605
The other scumteam wasn't much better. They didn't start D1, but left it for later in the game, with Drazerk being a good little town helper and ratting out his scumbuddies in our mason circle at the slightest suspicion from either me or Hassy. He went hardcore bus mode on prplhz and layabout, using his public DT check to modconfirm them as scum. So yeah, Maju could've been bussing. However, the case does not look like a typical bus case, nor does 4F look like typical scum. Nevertheless, that leaves Hyaach and xslskksls, unless someone proposes another suspect (deconduo is an outside possibility, but it would be sooo weird, I don't think even Drazerk would pull that stunt). Having Hyaach roleblock xsksks could work, but the only chance of it giving any info is if there is no NK, which, unfortunately might still be just due to xksksks's second role being blocked and his KP going through. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:36 GMT
#1608
On June 23 2012 03:27 ghost_403 wrote: @Acro: Isn't that plan based on xbard being town? You've stated a couple of times that you don't buy his roleclaim. What's up with that. It is based on information. It is based on me assuming an equal likelihood of all three of you being scum. I don't buy his roleclaim. I don't buy Hyaach's alignment claim. And I don't know what to think of you. The night action plan therefore assumes any one of you could be lying and is aimed at getting as much information for town as possible. There are myriad ways of it going wrong and it all needs to be backed up with proper scumhunting, but any other combo of night actions I came up with gives less info. Oh, and if you're afraid of your bulletproof getting roleblocked, think of it this way: if scum kills you and you're real 3rd party, YAY us, it's a day longer until lylo! Your death will be helping town! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:37 GMT
#1609
On June 23 2012 03:32 ghost_403 wrote: Wait. So your theory on me being scum is that the dead guy was once on a team with someone who liked bussing his scummates, and the deadguy also thought that the guy I replaced was scummy, so I must be scum. Have you actually read 4F's posts? There is nothing townie about them. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:39 GMT
#1610
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:40 GMT
#1612
On June 23 2012 03:35 Drazerk wrote: Hey hey hey gimme some credit here I bussed TWO scum teams in Holy roman and won that game As for dec you have to remember he came up with the stupid check so he might of had a bigger plan involved with the first one that involved it coming out true ( hell he could be a GF in which case I'd do that every time in every game) You couldn't bus the other scumteam, you weren't ON it. Killing the other team was in your own best interest as well! Oh and being a GF wouldn't make him town, zephirdd explicitly claimed it didn't work for frames, so I doubt it works for godfathers. He would've had to phrase that differently for it to work. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:41 GMT
#1614
On June 23 2012 03:39 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 23 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote: On June 23 2012 03:32 ghost_403 wrote: Wait. So your theory on me being scum is that the dead guy was once on a team with someone who liked bussing his scummates, and the deadguy also thought that the guy I replaced was scummy, so I must be scum. Have you actually read 4F's posts? There is nothing townie about them. You said the same thing about mine No. You actually had some townie posts, which is why I didn't shoot you like I intended to! Plus, you didn't even know your role pm for most of the first cycle... :@ | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 18:43 GMT
#1615
On June 23 2012 03:41 ghost_403 wrote: Scum wouldn't shoot me tonight. Killing me doesn't get them any closer to winning the game. I don't count as town for their wincon, as detailed previously. I'm fine with being roleblocked, my problem is that I don't think it will help us find scum. Your plan needs a town DT to actually work, and I haven't seen anything that shows you've thought that out. It's very strange considering the fact that you thought he was lying about his roleclaim to begin with. It doesn't need a town DT to work. Read it again. All it requires is someone who has claimed DT to say that someone else is red or green. We then decide what's what. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 19:05 GMT
#1621
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 19:20 GMT
#1625
On June 23 2012 04:12 HiroPro wrote: lol, you don't reveal your best player like that. Now they know who to kill, lol. And I still need to think of possible topics. So if you want to pre-write your limericks, that's fine. But unless it fits the topic (or if I really really like it), it won't count. Pffft, I have a better plan: reach mylo and lynch you. Let a townie be killed and reach lylo. Lynch S&B. Town loses, but SO DO YOU! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 22 2012 20:40 GMT
#1626
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 23 2012 07:52 GMT
#1648
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 23 2012 18:52 GMT
#1669
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 23 2012 19:36 GMT
#1672
Also: lol, the French playing like shit. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 08:17 GMT
#1705
On June 24 2012 13:17 HiroPro wrote: I suppose I should explain why there's probably a traitor in this setup. I'm pretty sure hyaach is town RB and xsksc is mafia. If somehow, hyaach is mafia and xsksc is town DT, then I'm wrong and I suck But the thing is it makes no sense for scum xsksc to hold his kill, unless he has no ability (in which case his kill will be RBed). So the logical assumption is that anti-town had a SK, a permanent 1-target framer capability, and a rolecop (3 people in total). From a balance standpoint though, that seems pretty broken even with 3 survivors (still leaves 9 townies, some of them with ridiculously powerful abilities: 2 vigis, a cop, a medic, a RB, the phoenix wright business). So probably another anti-town role exists. Judging by Forumite's comments in the Idea Factory thread, a traitor is likely. This is meta-meta! I'm not sure that's even a valid argument, but okay, lets run with it. Then who killed ET on N1? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 08:29 GMT
#1706
So what was the plan all about? Nothing. It was a sham. All I wanted was a night without a kill. I figured xskskc and Hyaach for scum and ghost as an outsider chance. I needed someone that a scum xkskskc or Hyaach would be able to frame believably. We got doubly lucky: we got some good info from the plan as well! If xsksksc is scum, he would know Hyaach is town and would be roleblocking ghost. That leaves him open to not shoot at night and get a mislynch on ghost. However, he needed to return a Hyaach check for this to be completely believable. With the red check, this seems very improbable. If Hyaach is scum, him roleblocking ghost is kinda beside the point, but he has to claim he did, or is immediately lynched: there's no reason for a town roleblocker to block the check on him. However, he could roleblock and claim xskskc is lying if there is a red check. The problem is that I don't see a good reason for xsksc to lie about a red check. Insofar as I can puzzle out we're not at lylo and can afford a 1 for 1 deal. If ghost is scum, then xsksksc's check makes no sense. The only situation in which neither xksksksc nor Hyaach is scum is if there is still a framer in the game. With Maju's flip this just seems unlikely. I will go over xsksksc's and Hyaach's filters again before the lynch, but for the moment it looks like Hyaach is scum. ##vote Hyaach | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 11:40 GMT
#1716
First question: is the bulletproof ability able to be roleblocked? If it is, then second question: Hypothetical situation (I know, there's lots of these) Lets say there's a player named Spooky_123 and he is bulletproof. He gets roleblocked that night, but not shot. Is Spooky_123 notified that he was roleblocked? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 13:45 GMT
#1717
Been going over xksksc's filter. In general I don't think it is nearly as terrible as many people here are claiming. However, some things stand out like a sore tooth. The first has been pointed out by a number of people already. Nisani's case on him was nothing very spectacular and at the time I didn't pay much attention to it, or xk's response, however on reading through again, I completely understand what people's problem with xk's response was: On June 18 2012 10:23 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 10:14 Nisani201 wrote: On June 18 2012 09:49 xsksc wrote: Point number 1 of my post should read fishy and not fish, lol. In response to Nisanis vote - On June 18 2012 09:20 Nisani201 wrote: First of all I'd like to call out BioSC for hardcore lurking throughout all of N0. However I'd prefer not to lynch a lurker today because I think there are better targets. xsksc is who I'd like to lynch today. Read his filter, and you'll see that he is sort of unwilling to contribute but is trying to make posts in the thread. In other words, all of his posts are easy to make. His most recent post, commenting on me and KB wanting to ally with the House Chezinu, is once again very diplomatic and is siding towards the general popular opinion on the thread. Putting my vote on him for now. ##Vote: xsksc Maybe it's the popular opinion because allying with a completely unknown faction is a pretty bad idea for town? As for my posts being "easy to make", I'm sorry you feel that way, but I disagree. I've voiced my opinnion and encouraged discussion when the thread was dead. I suggest you have a quick read of your own filter, and maybe that will stop you from accusing others of shit contribution. On June 17 2012 07:21 Nisani201 wrote: Drazerk, I feel like you are trying to make it look like you are contributing and being outspoken by latching onto any bullshit you can find. On June 18 2012 06:26 Nisani201 wrote: I'm on my phone so i can't do much right now, but i don't believe talis's claim. Makes it look like he's contributing when really he's just "forcing" everyone else to contribute for him. On June 18 2012 09:20 Nisani201 wrote: Read his filter, and you'll see that he is sort of unwilling to contribute but is trying to make posts in the thread. Copy and paste attacks, that's pretty much it. Your easy-to-make argument is completely nonsensical, not to mention hypocritical. Yes indeed, contributing without contributing seems to be a common theme this game. Not my fault. I don't think you quite got my point there.. You have contributed fuck all, and you are in no position to point that particular flaw out in everyone elses play. This is not a defense, but an OMGUS. I wasn't convinced by BioSC's defense when someone leveled the same accusation at him, but at least he defended his actions, instead of blindly attacking the person posting the case. Regardless of Nisani's badness, he was justifed in pointing out the lack of xk's contributions. Does xk address that? No, he goes full OMGUS mode. Now, in and of itself, this is not necessarily a scumtell (just a bad play tell), I have seen plenty of townies go OMGUS when they think they've been unjustly accused. However, xk backs up this defense with this: On June 21 2012 14:46 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 21 2012 14:35 HiroPro wrote: On June 21 2012 14:30 xsksc wrote: On June 21 2012 14:29 HiroPro wrote: On June 21 2012 14:25 xsksc wrote: I'm Sherlock Holmes, the Detective Every night I can investigate a player, and I'll get told if they're anti-town or non anti-town. I was told I could be sane or insane. I've determined that I am most definitely sane, as I checked KB n0 and he returned anti-town. I checked BioSC n1 and he returned non anti-town. The reason I checked BioSC was that I knew someone was framed, and he had managed to stay fairly low profile. Bit of a waste in hindsight, but I had no idea he was about to be vig shot. At least it confirms my sanity. lol, 2 cops in a 15-man setup. We have a liar, ladies and gentleman. Read his filter, read my case, and then laugh at his claim. We're lynching him tomorrow. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326599 That game had 6 survivors and 2 serial killers. Town was a minority of 7 people. It is not comparable. And your behavior has already shown that you are scum. Your claim is just icing on the cake. You argue that I'm scum because of how I reacted to Nisani's case. You yourself even said the case was bad, why would I risk exposing myself by reacting in such a way, to such a bad case that would never get me lynched? It was a bit over the top admittadly, but I was fucking annoyed by what he said. You said you don't want to argue this issue with me, but it's the core of your case on me... This gives a valid explanation for his defense, but I really really really don't like the bolded part. This looks like scum backpedalling to me. A "scum doing this would be terribad" defense can be used, but only if it wasn't also terribad as town. Trying to spin the original defense as a decent move for town, but bad for scum is really really dodgy. This actually only caught my eye, because he used the same defense more recently. And, in fact, it seems to be a general line in his posts: On June 21 2012 14:54 xsksc wrote: Oh, why would I fake claim DT? I don't see any reason why I would possibly want to do that as scum, lol. I'm going to be shot asap and the mere prescence of another DT in the game means I'm nowhere close to confirmed town. Pretty stupid claim to fake, wouldn't you say? On June 24 2012 18:38 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 24 2012 17:54 deconduo wrote: I think he was just being an idiot and didn't think through about what result he should give. Oh. So I'm an idiot as well as scum now, that's good to hear. I really wish I had put the same ammount of thought into using my ability as you did, lol. Seriously though, how can you think I'm scum when it'd just be playing against my wincon to claim DT and return an anti-town result on a townie AND not shoot. That reduces my chance of winning to 0, because I would die right after Hyaach flips. What the fuck would possibly motivate me to do all that? I don't get towncred unless he actually flips anti-town, and I miss a night's KP for absolutely zero gain. By faking the anti-town result, I sign a death sentence, and for what? He uses the same defense for 2 of his other actions: they would be DUMB play for scum. His main line of defense is: scum cannot possibly be derp enough to play the way xkskcd is playing, so xkskkskscd cannot possibly be scum. The main problem with this defense is, in xkskcd's own words (from C9++ mafia): On March 19 2012 05:00 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On March 19 2012 04:51 johnnywup wrote: I don't think they're that dissimilar situations, really. But the thing is, when I was questioned about my opinions I felt attacked, wrongly or rightly, but I did. So I tried to back off, as I didn't feel that strongly about what I said, I was just trying to be helpful where I could. And of course, that led to a lot of red flags from people, so I tried to show that I didn't feel strongly about it which raised more red flags..so I didn't know what to do. I was put in a situation where any newb town would be struggling, and here I am. I don't know what to say at this point, because no matter what I say people are going to be accusing me of being scum when I am not. I honestly don't know who could be town or scum at this point, so I'm not very helpful there. So there, that's my thought process during this situation. I didn't know it would lead down this path, but it did, so here I am, trying to clear my head. So keep trying to lynch me, but it's a waste of lynch, you'll get a vanilla townie and you'll get no information from any of this. The problem is, a newbie scum who messed up would make the same exact defense here. I would like to add that playing completely erratic as scum is something not only newb scum do. While I was going over C9++ I found this enlightening post from xkskskskssc's postgame analysis: On March 24 2012 16:56 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On March 24 2012 16:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen. Hmm. In the post-game of TLXVIII, WBG gave me some pretty helpful analysis about my play. In that game I figured out toad was scum medic, but not a single person listened cause I wasn't vocal enough with my reads, and nobody really had a reason to believe I was town. Finding scum is useless if noone is gonna listen to you, so establishing yourself as town is super important. So with that game in mind, I went into this game with the gameplan of making myself obv town, being open and posting a lot etc etc, so my opinnions would actually have some weight later on. I guess I didn't do too good a job, considering how suspicous slOosh and dirk found me. Oh well. I think sheeping Sandroba was the obvious choice though, pushing my own read (slOosh) would have resulted in a no-lynch which would have been really dumb. Now, I didn't actually read a lot of his filter there, but the first 1 1/2 pages just read incredibly townie to me. That, in contrast to this game (I haven't read xksksk's filter in XLVIII either, but he subbed in, so it's a tricky one in any case): in this game I don't get a town vibe from his filter, with gems like this: On June 18 2012 23:29 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2012 19:25 Acrofales wrote: as I am leaning increasingly towards some third party role for KB, which may or may not be anti-town, but is probably not (pure) scum. In this sort of game, I want to kill 3rd party even more, given that to win we have to remove all anti-town elements, which 3rd party/SK definitely falls under. For all we know, there might not even be "pure" scum in this game. Repeat performance by Obi Wan! Finally, I am rethinking the 4F claim deal. I didn't mind him not being up in arms about it, because he DID post a short blurb saying he didn't believe the claim. However, I really dislike his reaction at being pressured on it: On June 22 2012 07:30 xsksc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 07:15 strongandbig wrote: On June 22 2012 07:12 ghost_403 wrote: I really don't like xaard's stance on 4F's fake roleclaim. Again, if someone claimed my role, I would be all over that. He says almost nothing about it at all for the majority of the cycle. Why wouldn't you push someone who claimed your role? I just don't buy it. I think xberk scummier than DropBear at the moment. What I'd really like to hear is their thoughts on each other. Those are always enlightening. That's a really good point actually. Is it? One thing I have learned this game is that there are 50 ways to spell xsksc, although I do wonder how you arrived at xaard and xberk.. He doesn't just quote his own post, which he would've done if alarm bells HAD in fact gone off in his head. He questions whether the point is valid. It IS valid and he had an easy out, I just see this as careless play by someone who forgot how he had reacted to 4F's claim, which I can't imagine a real DT doing: he would've had alarmbells going off and been trying to UNDERSTATE his doubt of the claim (due to it being night). When called out on this I feel a real cop would've been far more annoyed and posting his night response. Verdict Scummy scum scum. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 14:04 GMT
#1718
Hyaach <--- claimed roleblocker and has been confirmed as roleblocker. The question is whether he's TOWN roleblocker, though. His play was giving me a null read up until now, but the rolename is more scummy (in GoT mafia: Tyrion was scum) than townie. Additionally, roleblockers are more likely to be given to scum than to town. On the fence here. In fact, I think that overall his play has been that of a bored townie, rather than scum. The only thing that doesn't sit right with me at all is the roleclaim. There are all kinds of things wrong with it: 1. I think it's far more likely to be Tyrion Lannister than Tyrion Lannister. Black would make even more sense, but I'm not getting a 3rd party vibe on him at all. 2. Maju's rolecop doesn't have roleblocker as an option. 3. I think it was Tali who pointed out that a town roleblocker makes little sense in this setup. On the other hand, I see no reason for a scummy roleblocker to roleblock Nisani (unless deadly afraid of the MA mechanic, but it seemed to just be adding to town chaos, so roleblocking the MA was a townie thing to do). Verdict Null, leaning town. Bastard moderators could be to blame for the weird role situation. [b]##unvote ##vote xkskc[/vote] | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 17:47 GMT
#1727
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 18:05 GMT
#1730
On June 25 2012 02:47 xsksc wrote: I'd still like to know what you guys think I withheld KP for If you give me a plausible explanation for Hyaach withholding KP, I'll give you one for you doing that. I posted above why it was a dumb idea for either of you to withhold KP, yet apparently one of you did it (or ghost is the real scum). Actually scratch that. ALTERNATIVE scenario: our 3-way tandem is completely wrong. You're town, Hyaach is town and ghost is an innocent 3rd party. Someone else is Maju's scumbuddy. He is a framer and framed Hyaach. He withheld his KP to cause us to go completely wifom on you three. While this is a possible explanation, I don't find it plausible. The only real option is that Hiro and SnB are a scum team together and one of them is a framer (it's possible balance-wise: 9 town, 1 neutral 3rd party, 1 SK and 2 2-man scumteams is plausible). However, that STILL means one of: Acro Tali deconduo Drazerk is Majuju's scumbuddy. Out of these, the only real possibility based on play are deconduo or Drazerk. Drazerk is ruled out by mechanics, unless the OP was lying to us. deconduo used his Phoenix Wright stuff. He used it terribly, but he used it townie-terribly, not scummy. It might have been a masterful gambit, but I don't see it happening. So that scenario is LESS plausible than one of you, Hyaach or ghost is scum. I have a final unlikely scenario that has a Hiro+SnB scumteam without KP, and a backup plan for that situation. However, the most plausible situation is that either you or Hyaach is scum. You look scummier than Hyaach. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 18:17 GMT
#1732
On June 25 2012 03:15 strongandbig wrote: Drazerk isn't ruled out. Hosts refuse to confirm that he couldn't be vanilla townie. Here's something interesting though - all the claimed and revealed town or third party roles come from previous games on TL mafia except for Sherlock Holmes and Marceline the Vampire Queen. Got a link for Tyrion being a roleblocker? In GoT he was a scum framer. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 18:34 GMT
#1738
On June 25 2012 03:28 xsksc wrote: Ah whatever, I'm going to bed I'll find out tomorow. Find out what? Your own alignment? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 24 2012 18:36 GMT
#1739
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 08:48 GMT
#1759
The reason is math, not scumhunting. Everything except this very last day points to xsksc being scum, and a scum trying to save himself by appearing townie is exactly that. However, lets go through the scenarios. Scenario 1: The currently assumed scenario: xsksc is scum. a) We lynch xsksc. This either wins us the game, or the game continues. Either way we lynched scum. Yay us. If the game continues then we STILL have to choose who is the last anti-town: ghost or the mason pair. Chances are we lynch the mason pair in any case. The only difference with starting with a mason pair lynch is that we take out a KP, and win with a bigger margin (and also have a bigger margin if there is some funky KP on that final scum role. b) We lynch SnB. If he flips anti-town we have found another scumteam. If he flips 3rd party, we proceed tomorrow with the xsksc lynch. This probably means we have a NK to deal with tonight, putting us at a presumed 4v1v2 (2 3rd party). This is still a completely winning position to be in as town. Scenario 2: The second-most plausible scenario: Hyaach is scum. a) We lynch xsksc. He flips green and we lynch Hyaach tomorrow (eating a NK). If the game ends, yay us! If the game continues, then we are in a similar situation as scenario 1, but with 1 less townie. Who do we lynch? ghost? Or the mason pair. At this point it is almost certainly mylo, so we definitely lynch 3rd party, and just to be sure we HAVE to lynch the mason pair (to ensure we're not actually in a 3v2v1 situation. If ghost is a rogue 3rd party, then we get another shot at him after the NK). Another option is to lynch into drazerk and deconduo, but they (currently) seem less likely than the 3rd parties. b) There are no downsides to bringing forward the mason pair kill. We lynch a mason and eat a NK from the scum. xsksc flips town tomorrow. We eat another NK and are at mylo. We then lynch Hyaach. The only thing is that we now have an extra opportunity for xsksc to use his DT skills! We already lynched a mason, so don't have to worry about him. We thus fire a DT check at Drazerk. This gives us a LOT more info at lylo. Scenario 3: ghost is scum. Let me note that in this scenario there is guaranteed to be another scum, who is a framer. a) We lynch xsksc on the next night. Hyaach roleblocks ghost again. Now, if there is no NK, we should lynch ghost before Hyaach: there is really no reason for Hyaach to hold his KP two nights in a row (unless both Hyaach and ghost are scum, so distinguishing between scenarios 2 and 3 is hard and should only be dealt with after the no NK night actually happens). If we lynch ghost, we take out the scum and have to hunt down the framer. This probably means lynching into our 3rd party survivor team! b) We lynch into our 3rd party survivor team, who either flips scum (found the framer or his buddy) or regular old 3rd party. However, once again, we give the DT that extra night to perform DT checks. Because the scum KP is getting roleblocked there's still no NKs, so we're golden. Scenario 4: none of our scummy 3some is scum. Similar to scenario 3, but with KP. We just need to keep our eyes open. TLDR: the only situation in which I can see lynching one of our claimed 3rd party survivors as detrimental is if xsksc is scum and someone in our "confirmed town" team is scum too. This scenario is just really really unlikely to me. If xsksc is scum and one of our 3rd parties is also scum, we'll get around to them in any case and sooner vs. later makes little difference. If xsksc is town, then lynching into the 3rd party will happen eventually anyway, and doing it sooner vs. later gives us more DT info. In the realistic scenarios, we can say that at worst it kills a 3rd party (who still wins due to mason!) and delays the town win by 1 day. At best, it saves us a world of trouble. ##unvote ##vote strongandbig | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 08:51 GMT
#1760
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 09:49 GMT
#1763
I also knew you would be onboard, because murder has always been your thing | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 09:59 GMT
#1765
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 12:33 GMT
#1776
Also, I am not excluding the possibility of a traitor, but your insistence of its presence is weird. I detailed exactly what situations can occur and nothing you have said effects it much. If the final scum is in the group of "confirmed" townies, we're screwed ANYWAY. Lets check that situation out: 1. We lynch xsksksk. He's town and someone gets shot at night. 2. We lynch Hyaach. He was framed and is also town. Someone gets shot at night. 3. You three (ghost, Hiro, SnB) are 3rd party, so now we are at: 1v1v3. AKA town lost the game. Lynching a 3rd party today does NOT change the time we have. It just makes it 0v1v3 after the last night (so technically the last day is lylo instead of mylo). However, in this unlikely situation it DOES improve our chances at lylo, because we have an extra DT control to go on AND information about the alignment of Hiro-SnB. SnB's fear of dying and his reasoning around it is setting off all kinds of alarmbells in my head. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 12:48 GMT
#1778
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 13:09 GMT
#1781
1v1v3 is a LOSS for town. Straight from the Maju role pm: You win when the number of scum alive are equal or outnumber the number of Town-aligned players alive. 3rd Party do not count. If one of the "confirmed" townies is scum, then it really IS better to lynch SnB right now. It matters nothing to town whether we lose at 0v1v2 or 1v1v3. The chance of PREVENTING the 0v1v2 happening is better if we lynch you now, rather than after xsksc is dead (which would also make tomorrow mylo, so if xsksc is town, then lynching Hyaach tomorrow would be dumb). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 13:13 GMT
#1783
On June 25 2012 22:03 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On June 25 2012 18:05 Drazerk wrote: Well its much better than a no brain sacrificial lamb vote at any rate and I've been paranoid about the mason pair considering just how broken that role really is and I can't imagine anyone using it without some major drawback involved. S+B wants to stay alive the most so I want to kill him first so... ##vote strongandbig If scum was hanging on their KP last night they are basically forced to do it again anyway so it shouldn't matter that much delaying the sacrificial lambs This is super fishy. Why would scum hold their KP again tonight? Why is it fishy? I don't see much reason to hold their KP again tonight, but I don't know why the comment is fishy, it's just wrong (I think). | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 13:38 GMT
#1786
On June 25 2012 22:30 xsksc wrote: I don't see why you care about dying, you still win when Hiro lives right? Nobody has a reason to kill him, or they'd have done it already...besides why should we care if you win or not? The fact you're so paranoid about dying just gives us more reason to kill you lol. I agree with the scum! Kill (uncover) the other scumteam! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 14:11 GMT
#1792
On June 25 2012 23:06 ghost_403 wrote: But they aren't claiming to be the DT. Maju's PM says that he gets to frame a player Night 0, and that player will get checked opposite the rest of the game. The rules state that any wrong alignment check will read wrong the entire game. That doesn't make it sound like a framer role is possible in this game. I would expect someone claiming to be the DT to pick up on these sorts of things. This is a pretty damned good catch, ghost. Makes me doubt my plan (the only situation in which it's a bad plan is if xsksc is actually scum). All the evidence mounting up against xsksc, but for now I'll stick with it. Everybody else should use their own judgement. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 14:17 GMT
#1794
1. If xsksc is the last scum, it doesn't matter (just delays the win by a day). 2. If xsksc is scum and so is one of the "confirmed townies", the plan may be bad for us. 3. If xsksc is scum and so is (at least) one of the 3rd parties, the plan is not detrimental and may be beneficial. 4. If xsksc is not scum, the plan is clearly beneficial to us. I still weigh the chance of 4 being true greater than the chance of 2 being true. 1 and 3 are more likely than either, so the plan is most probably neutral. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 15:45 GMT
#1800
From a purely coherence of role name point of view, Tyrion the MILLER roleblocker makes a hell-of-a-lot of sense. In fact, I believe I mentioned it in the ScumQT of GoT mafia that Tyrion could just roleclaim his own name and say he's a miller :D | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 16:49 GMT
#1817
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:01 GMT
#1818
On June 26 2012 01:48 talismania wrote: actually fuck it. if we're going to lynch third party, why not ghost? fourface claimed insane dt - why? probably because his ass wanted to mislead town. He's a survivor alright, but wins with scum. Just a thought. Also ghost has been acting weird since he's arrived. Lynching ghost actually has a good chance of catching scum imho. As today has developed, he has been acting weirder and weirder. 4F never really convinced me he was town in any way. Ghost has played more coherently. It was actually you who convinced me 4F/ghost was improbable scum. Also, if we lynch ghost and he flips scum then we've proven Hyaach as a pretty townie roleblocker, leaving the road even clearer for an xsksc lynch tomorrow. I am not opposed to killing ghost. My main reason for picking Hiro/SnB is because there is something fishy about their role and until we lynch one of them or the game ends we won't know what it is. I am inquisitive and not above lynching for information Let me go reread ghost's filter, but a switch to ghost does not seem like a bad plan. At worst it'll prove that roleblocking ghost was NOT what stopped the mafia kill from happening. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:10 GMT
#1820
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:13 GMT
#1824
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:16 GMT
#1827
On June 26 2012 02:11 deconduo wrote: I'm not changing my plan to kill xsksc, and then hyaach if he flips town. Going after third party when we have a guaranteed mafia is just a bad idea. Why do you think ghost is 3rd party and not mafia? What makes you think xsksksksks is scummier than Hyaach? Why can't Hyaach be a miller? We don't have confirmed scum. We have someone who looked scummy up until very recently and then started to look townie as fuck. We have another guy who looked null leaning town until very recently and then started looking scummier. We have another guy who has claimed 3rd party and played like 3rd party/scum. Also, Hiro brings up a good point. He did promise to play townie and if there's anything I get loud and clear from his filter, it's that he hasn't done that. Lets get this show on the road. ##unvote ##vote ghost_90210 | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:19 GMT
#1829
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:20 GMT
#1831
On June 26 2012 02:18 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2012 02:16 talismania wrote: roleblock does remove bulletproof, at least it did in pick your power. That's not bulletproof, that was just a veteran right? It's academic. There are games in which bulletproof can be roleblocked and nobody knows if this game is one of them, because the mods aren't answering questions like that. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:31 GMT
#1840
Prime thing that makes him scum: we KNOW hyaach is a roleblocker. We've been assuming scum held their KP, but what if ghost is simply a mafia goon and the roleblock STOPPED his KP. Even if that is what scum wants us to think, the WORST case scenario is that we lynch a 3rd party. Who cares? (except ghost himself) Ghost said he'd play townie, but has not been playing townie Roleblocking ghost had the effect of stopping mafia KP Lets lynch him! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:32 GMT
#1842
Also, being able to roleblock scum KP is automatic justification for a town roleblocker. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:32 GMT
#1843
On June 26 2012 02:31 Acrofales wrote: Okay. A miller roleblocker actually makes a lot of sense atm and I feel pretty badly atm about both an xskskc and a Hyaach lynch. On the other hand, I feel we can't go wrong on a ghost lynch. Prime thing that makes him scum: we KNOW hyaach is a roleblocker. We've been assuming scum held their KP, but what if ghost is simply a mafia goon and the roleblock STOPPED his KP. Even if that is what scum wants us to think, the WORST case scenario is that we lynch a 3rd party. Who cares? (except ghost himself) Ghost said he'd play townie, but has not been playing townie Roleblocking ghost had the effect of stopping mafia KP Lets lynch him! Stuck at the bottom of a page and I know nobody reads that shit (Mattchew told me) | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:39 GMT
#1846
It's not what deconduo wants. Tali hasn't made it completely clear yet what he wants. Drazerk is a mystery to all. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:42 GMT
#1850
On June 26 2012 02:38 talismania wrote: Hmm I still doubt ghost is mafia goon because of maju's case on fourface being as strong as it was. The reason a NK was withheld was either to make ghost look bad, or because it didn't matter. Like, if it's a 1 on 1 between xsksc and hyaach and whoever's scum between them knows that, then they know the only way they have to win is to convince the third party players to join their side, and I think mathwise that happens tomorrow regardless of if they used a NK or not. The other possibility is that the NK was replaced by a traitor being recruited or something. Eh fuck too many possibilities. That scenario was not properly thought through. The math does not work out. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:46 GMT
#1853
I have gone through all possibilities and it really made no sense for scum to withhold KP yesterday. My night plan was made in order to wifom scum into thinking it did and they *might* have fallen for it (I was hoping they did). However, if we assume scum can actually think things through for themselves, then they should know withholding KP was a bad move. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:48 GMT
#1857
On June 26 2012 02:44 ghost_403 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2012 02:10 HiroPro wrote: On June 26 2012 02:01 Acrofales wrote: On June 26 2012 01:48 talismania wrote: actually fuck it. if we're going to lynch third party, why not ghost? fourface claimed insane dt - why? probably because his ass wanted to mislead town. He's a survivor alright, but wins with scum. Just a thought. Also ghost has been acting weird since he's arrived. Lynching ghost actually has a good chance of catching scum imho. As today has developed, he has been acting weirder and weirder. 4F never really convinced me he was town in any way. Ghost has played more coherently. It was actually you who convinced me 4F/ghost was improbable scum. Also, if we lynch ghost and he flips scum then we've proven Hyaach as a pretty townie roleblocker, leaving the road even clearer for an xsksc lynch tomorrow. I am not opposed to killing ghost. My main reason for picking Hiro/SnB is because there is something fishy about their role and until we lynch one of them or the game ends we won't know what it is. I am inquisitive and not above lynching for information Let me go reread ghost's filter, but a switch to ghost does not seem like a bad plan. At worst it'll prove that roleblocking ghost was NOT what stopped the mafia kill from happening. Cool, I guess you guys can have this. ghost_403 has claimed BP survivor and said that since he's BP, it's in his best interest to play pro-town. Thing is, ghost hasn't actually done anything like that this game. He makes a call for Nisani to be shot without ever talking about why he thinks Nisani is scum. He makes "reads" on DropBear and xsksc that just rephrase what other people have already said about them. Additionally, look at how uncomfortable ghost was with providing a concrete opinion on DropBear's alignment. ghost refers multiple times to DropBear as "bad townie or scum", but never actually decides which one it is. + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2012 01:11 ghost_403 wrote: Nisani StrongAndBig EschelonTee Two of my best scum reads are already dead, GJ town. I really don't like having to put ET on this list, given how much him and my predecessor fought it out, but I really don't like how he jumped around on his voting. Later, I'll look through some of his previous games to see how he votes as town. Also, never trust the guy who reports the votecounts. Given a bullet, I would shoot Nisani in a heartbeat. On June 21 2012 01:25 ghost_403 wrote: BioSC looked townish to me, but that came mostly from the reading of the House Chezinu situation early on in the game. Past that, I didn't really notice anything significant about him. DropBear didn't make it on my spreadsheet until I looked at the players list. Points to terrible townie or lurking scum. On June 22 2012 06:57 ghost_403 wrote: I'm not a big fan of DropBear. He opens the game by pushing KB, then drops it after Maju flips because his single vote somehow exonerates him of all scumminess. It's a bad move on his part, but he was rather townish in how he stuck to his guns on that issue. Past that, the only thing he's really contributed is his case on Nisani. Take a look at his filter, he's not bringing anything to the town at all. Also, I don't like how he refuses to claim his role's name. Everyone else has, why not him? Very strange. He's either scum or very bad townie. Now to look at xkcd. My ride home is almost here, so that might not get put up for a bit. On June 23 2012 03:41 ghost_403 wrote: Scum wouldn't shoot me tonight. Killing me doesn't get them any closer to winning the game. I don't count as town for their wincon, as detailed previously. I'm fine with being roleblocked, my problem is that I don't think it will help us find scum. Your plan needs a town DT to actually work, and I haven't seen anything that shows you've thought that out. It's very strange considering the fact that you thought he was lying about his roleclaim to begin with. ghost has claimed that he is bulletproof. So why is it that he's speculating about why scum wouldn't kill him? That scenario should never even cross his mind; it's not just that he's talking about being shot (that would be understable), but he specifically refers to himself dying from a scum shot (something which should not be possible if his claim is true). The differences between what ghost has claimed to be and his actual words and actions in the thread are stark. ghost claimed that he is bulletproof, yet the way he talks suggests exactly the opposite. ghost says that he's a survivor who's interested in helping town as it helps him out too; yet he's done absolutely no scumhunting. Show nested quote + On June 26 2012 02:12 HiroPro wrote: On June 26 2012 02:10 Acrofales wrote: Okay, quick wrapup of ghost's play. He is clearly completely unconcerned about who is getting lynched (while he is out-of-shot). Which makes him not-town. But we knew that already. Complete toss-up between scum and 3rd party as far as I can read him, though. Think about what ghost has claimed. He says that he's a BP survivor who's going to help town because he's at no risk of dying; has he actually done that? No. Show nested quote + On June 26 2012 02:33 HiroPro wrote: ok, voting for ghost then, if that's what you guys want. One of the greatest skills for scum to have is to get the ball rolling, then distance themselves from the mess that it causes. Hiro, if you're going to push my lynch, I fully expect you to own it. That only really works if the lynch is on a townie. Pushing a 3rd party (maybe scum) lynch as a claimed other 3rd party is hardly a scumtell. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:51 GMT
#1863
On June 26 2012 02:47 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2012 02:46 Acrofales wrote: If ghost is 3rd party and scum withheld a kill to make him look bad, they are really stupid. What does scum win? 1 extra day in which we eliminate 1 3rd party. There's still the same number of townies as yesterday and we have eliminated one of the possibilities where scum might be hiding. I have gone through all possibilities and it really made no sense for scum to withhold KP yesterday. My night plan was made in order to wifom scum into thinking it did and they *might* have fallen for it (I was hoping they did). However, if we assume scum can actually think things through for themselves, then they should know withholding KP was a bad move. Funny if they just forgot to send it in. That would be funny -- and bad play One thing this game has taught me is the infinite amount of wifom that a kill-less night can create. Totally worth remembering: even if it's suboptimal play, it is optimal due to the derailment of town into wifomtopia. PS. I PREDICTED THIS: On June 23 2012 03:08 Acrofales wrote: That eliminates a number of scenarios. Lets go through the outcomes: 1. xllslsks says Hyaach is red and there is no NK: WIFOM central! Ignore everything and back to scumhunting | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:52 GMT
#1866
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:56 GMT
#1872
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 17:58 GMT
#1874
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 18:05 GMT
#1881
I don't think there's a framer, because then the OP is lying to us (once again), so we can tell xsksc who to check. My preference is for Drazerk or one of Hiro/SnB. Alternatively we can just have Hyaach roleblock xsksc, because who really cares about DT checks anyway? It might prevent KP again! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 18:08 GMT
#1882
So. xsksc claimed a rolename that wasn't in a previous game on this forum. I think we're back to lynching him tomorrow | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 19:34 GMT
#1898
On June 26 2012 03:52 deconduo wrote: You guys -_- Also now xsksc is the only one with a roleclaim that hasn't been in a previous TL mafia game. In what game was Pinkie Pie? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 19:40 GMT
#1900
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 19:41 GMT
#1901
On June 26 2012 04:37 strongandbig wrote: Ummmmmmmm srsly? It was in my little pony mafia. I just used the TL search engine but restricted it to mafia subgroup. Okay. I didn't actually search for that one. I never heard of that game and knew it wasn't in any of the games I had taken a look at. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 19:59 GMT
#1902
Also, @deconduo and Tali: I still insist the lynch wasn't bad. For myself, I was firmly stuck between xsksc and Hyaach as the last scum. There was a not-too-outside chance that ghost was scum and worst-case scenario was that we lynched a 3rd party. He was not helping us and just breezing by, so I don't feel bad for it. We got a LOT of information: we know for sure that scum was withholding KP. We also got the whole rolename deal, even if I don't buy it yet (find me professor badass, ezio auditorie and neutral balrog survivor). PS: I will accept my rolename with or without its typo | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 25 2012 20:31 GMT
#1906
On June 26 2012 05:09 HiroPro wrote: I think iGrok claimed that he was a Neutral Surviving Balrog in either IRC or LoTR mafia. Professor Badass was the hydra name that Curu and Erandorr used in Election Mafia. I know that. Those aren't roles, though. I don't buy the theory. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 07:03 GMT
#1910
On June 26 2012 05:47 strongandbig wrote: At this point you've crossed the line into willful ignorance. Lets just agree to disagree. I don't think you're right and I think it is a really fucked up reason to think someone's scummy. It's speculation about the mindset of the mod when he made the game. There's plenty of other reasons to suspect xsksc. I don't like Hyaach's absense at all either. xsksc: other than the red check, what makes Hyaach scum? Hyaach: what makes xsksc scum? Gogogo! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 09:46 GMT
#1917
Circumstantial evidence: Pinkie Pie is not a role from "TL Mafia lore". It is a role from an obscure and forgotten game (which Forumite did play in). Similarly MA and AMA are not "TL Mafia lore", nor are they exact rolenames. They are just the two factions in LI, which happens to be a famous game for other reasons (VE vs. Toad and Mattchew endgaming everybody). I cannot find the SCUM rolecop anywhere at all either, btw. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 09:49 GMT
#1918
Pros: if Hyaach is scum and wants to keep incriminating xsksc, he will hold his shot. Cons: if xsksc is town we miss out on a DT check. I think the pros outweigh the cons in this situation. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 14:53 GMT
#1946
On June 26 2012 23:49 HiroPro wrote: Ok, I've got limerick topics selected. Doesn't look like I'll get to use them, though This game has a noob called HiroPro Who wants to end dead as a dodo He threatens with rhymes But when the bell chimes We all know that this is a no no! Now back to I was enjoying the xsksc and Hyaach little spat. I just wish I had time to give it a good read through. At least it has both of them posting, which I think is great. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:00 GMT
#1949
Think of it: Maju checks Tali and he gets back "weird" Tali claims daytime vigi Deconduo doesn't believe the claim at ALL, because he thinks this would've given back vigi on the check, so concludes that Tali is lying. He tells Tali to say this: I am a dayvig I am town Deconduo is town He plans for this to come back false, because he *knows* Tali is not a dayvig (and he's also not afraid of Tali's shot). However, he needs the "Deconduo is town" blurb in there to make himself "confirmed town". Because Tali is not a dayvig and deconduo won't get shot, this could also get the pressure off his scumbuddy Maju, who was in danger of lynching, if not shooting. When Tali flips town, but not dayvig, he is cleared as confirmed scum and goes into hiding. What actually happened was possibly even better (although his scumbuddy died): Tali reacted in a really townie manner and Drazerk jumped into the fray. Deconduo being quick on his feet joggled the sentence round a bit: Deconduo is town Drazerk is town Talismania is not town Tali IS town, so this sentence is false, but because nobody believes deconduo would pull such a stunt as scum, he's off the hook. This lie detector deal made me completely dismiss all my suspicions of deconduo, but I just can't help thinking that OTHER than that lie detector thing he has been horrid. Hyaach played townie, and then went into lurker mode, but his spat with xsksc seems more like a town vs. town spat. xsksc played scummy, and then when the pressure was on reacted in a townie manner to it. When I can't find a clear scum motive for actions, I have to default to town. And one thing I absolutely cannot fathom is why either Hyaach or xsksc would withhold the NK: the pressure was very clearly on them and withholding the NK would only confirm to us that scum was hiding in Ghost/xsksc/Hyaach. That gives them a very finite window of opportunity and all NKs help. However, if deconduo is scum, then withholding the NK makes sense: it allows him to get all those 3 killed, and by the time they're dead, he can win the game. I invite everybody to look at deconduo's filter. It is scummy as hell. It goes from scummy (including a Majuju softdefense) into lie detector into hardcore lurker. And yes, I know I am introducing someone into the equation AGAIN. I just don't feel the xsksc or Hyaach lynches anymore. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:02 GMT
#1951
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:06 GMT
#1952
On June 26 2012 23:25 talismania wrote: oh duh Haha, this was such a fake-out. I knew there was no reason for scum to withhold KP. You knew there was no reason for scum to withhold KP. I was just hoping scum didn't know there was no reason to withhold KP There is no reason to let either xsksc or Hyaach off the hook for this kill. It makes it marginally less likely that xsksc is scum because we've ruled out that he's a mafia goon: if he's scum, he has some ability that can be roleblocked, in addition to his KP. However, I just don't feel a lynch on either of these guys anymore. Drazerk, what is your opinion of this? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:07 GMT
#1954
If you play Dota2, pick a support. Seriously I'm tired of people going all carry mode and I'm the only one left to support them. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:08 GMT
#1956
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:11 GMT
#1961
On June 27 2012 03:10 strongandbig wrote: Acro if xkcd and Hyaach are both town then why would xkcd's check on Hyaach be red? Acrofales for traitor anyone? ##vote: hyaach You said it yourself: miller. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:11 GMT
#1962
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:18 GMT
#1966
I may be overthinking things and we should just lynch people who looked scummy at the start. However, I just don't feel the xsksc lynch anymore. Something is just off about it. I never really felt the Hyaach lynch. I am looking for alternatives to lynches that just feel like they are not townie lynches to do. If you guys think I'm wrong and we should be lynching into those two and then the day after lynching the other one if he flips town, lets just do that and if we're wrong I'll say "I told you so" and if we're right I'll be happy because you stopped a stupid mistake from happening. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:23 GMT
#1968
On June 27 2012 03:17 strongandbig wrote: He would have been a reasonable hit target that night there was no kill. And after that he started being all "trololol let's stop trying to lynch one of the obvious scum here and kill a third party instead!" Like look at his switch from me to ghost, he just wanted to kill any third party, he didn't actually care about finding scum. He didn't even bother to make cases. I didn't make a case on you because I wanted to kill you for math. Your buddy made a decent case on ghost and there was little time. I read ghost's filter and found it scummy. The NK not happening also made sense if ghost was scum. A lot MORE sense than if xsksc or Hyaach was scum. I knew tonight was a toss-up between Tali and myself for the shot (assuming no miracle and scum didn't hold their shot again). Drazerk would be making the exact same case against Tali as he is against me now that I am still alive. Whoever is scum probably felt my reads were further off-base than Tali's (he shot scum, I shot a blue), or that I was so verbose that I was shooting myself in the foot. Two accusations that could be leveled against my town play this game. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:24 GMT
#1970
On June 27 2012 03:21 Drazerk wrote: I say we just lynch Hyaach purely because of the amount of information it will create What information will it create? If he's scum? Great. If he's town, what information do we get? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 18:28 GMT
#1973
On June 27 2012 03:27 deconduo wrote: Acro has been super scummy the last couple of days. Especially with the last minute switch to ghost, and now wanting to go after SnB. It feels like someone trying to lynch all the 3rd party. We haven't even cleared him of being scum, and we definitely haven't cleared him of being 3rd party. I don't want to go after SnB. I want to go after you. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 19:17 GMT
#1978
On June 27 2012 03:30 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2012 03:28 Acrofales wrote: On June 27 2012 03:27 deconduo wrote: Acro has been super scummy the last couple of days. Especially with the last minute switch to ghost, and now wanting to go after SnB. It feels like someone trying to lynch all the 3rd party. We haven't even cleared him of being scum, and we definitely haven't cleared him of being 3rd party. I don't want to go after SnB. I want to go after you. Nice OMGUS, great to help your case along. So far you are doing a fantastic job of getting everyone to not lynch you. :D Do you even read this thread? Or just come in to give gratuitious comments? On June 27 2012 03:00 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Wacky idea. What if deconduo is Maju's partner. We all completely let him off the hook for the whole lie detector thing, but what if Maju checked Tali on N0 and it came back "weird" rather than "vigilante". If that is the case, then the whole lie detector part suddenly makes sense from a scum point of view. Think of it: Maju checks Tali and he gets back "weird" Tali claims daytime vigi Deconduo doesn't believe the claim at ALL, because he thinks this would've given back vigi on the check, so concludes that Tali is lying. He tells Tali to say this: He plans for this to come back false, because he *knows* Tali is not a dayvig (and he's also not afraid of Tali's shot). However, he needs the "Deconduo is town" blurb in there to make himself "confirmed town". Because Tali is not a dayvig and deconduo won't get shot, this could also get the pressure off his scumbuddy Maju, who was in danger of lynching, if not shooting. When Tali flips town, but not dayvig, he is cleared as confirmed scum and goes into hiding. What actually happened was possibly even better (although his scumbuddy died): Tali reacted in a really townie manner and Drazerk jumped into the fray. Deconduo being quick on his feet joggled the sentence round a bit: Tali IS town, so this sentence is false, but because nobody believes deconduo would pull such a stunt as scum, he's off the hook. This lie detector deal made me completely dismiss all my suspicions of deconduo, but I just can't help thinking that OTHER than that lie detector thing he has been horrid. Hyaach played townie, and then went into lurker mode, but his spat with xsksc seems more like a town vs. town spat. xsksc played scummy, and then when the pressure was on reacted in a townie manner to it. When I can't find a clear scum motive for actions, I have to default to town. And one thing I absolutely cannot fathom is why either Hyaach or xsksc would withhold the NK: the pressure was very clearly on them and withholding the NK would only confirm to us that scum was hiding in Ghost/xsksc/Hyaach. That gives them a very finite window of opportunity and all NKs help. However, if deconduo is scum, then withholding the NK makes sense: it allows him to get all those 3 killed, and by the time they're dead, he can win the game. I invite everybody to look at deconduo's filter. It is scummy as hell. It goes from scummy (including a Majuju softdefense) into lie detector into hardcore lurker. And yes, I know I am introducing someone into the equation AGAIN. I just don't feel the xsksc or Hyaach lynches anymore. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 22:01 GMT
#1985
On June 27 2012 04:19 Drazerk wrote: how did I miss that post 0.0 So now that you've seen it, why don't you grace us with your opinion. Now that Tali's dead it's up to us to clear this game... and I'm not even sure you're town. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 23:10 GMT
#1988
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Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 26 2012 23:28 GMT
#1990
##vote Hyaach | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 07:28 GMT
#1997
On June 27 2012 08:13 Drazerk wrote: Xsksc seems scummier but its generally easier to look townie as scum so I'd rather lynch Hyaach who has the red check on him Okay, I missed the reasoning in this last night. How does this even work. It is easier to look townie as scum than as town? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 08:58 GMT
#2001
On June 27 2012 16:13 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2012 14:44 xsksc wrote: My check last night was RBed - that goes without saying though. ##vote Hyaach deconduo, don't be an asshole. Vote me if you think I'm more likely to flip scum, don't do it to be fucking awkward. Its both. If you flip scum and the game ends its great. If you flip scum and the game doesn't end then we lynch acro. If you flip town we lynch hyaach. Lynching hyaach first is the most dangerous thing to do because there's a chance acro is a traitor, given how he saved you from being lynched yesterday and tried to divert the lynch again today. And now he's pushing for hyaach to be lynched first which is ridiculous as well. Let me nip this in the bud. How does your mind work. If xsksc is town then I am scum for pushing a lynch OFF him and onto a claimed 3rd party. Wait WHAT? Lets rewind that: xsksc is town Acro pushes the lynch from a townie to a 3rd party Acro must be scum This is the most upside down, inside out, back to front reasoning in this thread so far. However, that's okay, because scum is allowed to do that (and then they get lynched for it). Here is you earlier: On June 23 2012 07:12 deconduo wrote: Acrofales isn't confirmed town by any means, and is confirmed to have KP. Just because he claimed his role early doesn't make him town. Enter Talismania, who was the only one I trusted to make sense in this thread (Hiro makes sense, but is 3rd party. Drazerk is town, but doesn't make sense), who told you to read my filter. Instant 180º flip! On June 23 2012 07:19 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 23 2012 07:16 talismania wrote: hyaach claimed town roleblocker, not 3P acrofales is too much of a stretch. He asked me to shoot maju and dropbear. And he's been incredibly protown. And everything Oh I just assumed a Tyrion Lannister claim would be neutral, not town. Oh and you are right about acro, went through his filter, he isn't scum. Point still stands about xcvxc, lynch him first, not hyaach What has happened since then is that I have pushed a lynch on 3rd party for rather valid reasons. I was doubting the xsksc/Hyaach lynch (and still am, but recognize that at least one of them has to die before lylo) and started thinking about the lynch and alternatives to it. If I had thought things through about your claim earlier, I would probably have gone straight to you, but as it was, I figured we had two more lynches left before mylo. If we lynched a 3rd party, it would be lylo instead of mylo, but other than that nothing would change. The rest is explained multiple times in the thread. However, lets go back to you. You want to lynch xsksc, because lynching a roleblocker is dangerous (despite the fact that it is doubtful that a roleblocker can stop KP: that only works if the scum is vanilla). I would argue that it's the other way round: you're scum and NOT lynching a DT is dangerous, especially if Hyaach is in fact a miller (information scum has, because they know xsksc and Hyaach are both town). Lynching Hyaach tells us for 100% sure whether xsksc was lying and is therefore scum. Lynching xsksc and him flipping town means Hyaach could still be a miller rather than scum, forcing a Hyaach lynch tomorrow and allowing scum-deconduo to get away scot free. However, lynching Hyaach puts actual scum in a difficult spot. You are forced to kill the DT, because Hyaach flipping miller will make his claim believable (scum could not know he was a miller, just that he was town. It would be an extremely lucky lie and Ockham's razor rules it out). However, you don't want to kill xsksc the DT, because he is who you want to hedge your lylo against: having to lylo with Drazerk and me means you're dead. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 09:02 GMT
#2002
So the only situation where we have a truly difficult lylo is if Hyaach flips miller. The rest are layed out for us and that's why I focus on this situation when talking about deconduo. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 09:59 GMT
#2004
On June 27 2012 18:46 Drazerk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2012 16:28 Acrofales wrote: On June 27 2012 08:13 Drazerk wrote: Xsksc seems scummier but its generally easier to look townie as scum so I'd rather lynch Hyaach who has the red check on him Okay, I missed the reasoning in this last night. How does this even work. It is easier to look townie as scum than as town? Look at your own filter then look at mine the people you are arguably calling most likely to be town both are complete death traps (mainly mine but yours also sucks). Then look at my filter from holy roman and the skype logs (Totally directed at hassy) my play was arguable much much better ( All though this has to do with the fact I am a good scum player and a god awful town / third party player ) Townies make mistakes and generally aren't useful... scum have all game to make their gambit get into an awesome position and never leave it. By this logic we should've lynched into Tali and HiroPro on D1... but lets save this discussion for post-game. We lynch Hyaach today! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 10:34 GMT
#2007
@Drazerk: don't forget to vote. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 12:37 GMT
#2012
On June 27 2012 20:01 Hyaach wrote: You are using my lynch to gain information based on a WIFOM situation. And for me to RB faction KP, xsksc has to be goon. What's the possibility of that? Reasons I want to lynch you: 1. You have looked scummy ever since the lynch was between you and xsksc. Ironically, you looked less scummy before the pressure was on. However, you lurked like mad. Then when I called both of you for your opinion on each other there was some interesting stuff. It was obviously all alot of omgus, but I found xsksc's arguments townier than yours. Combine the two and you are now slightly scummier. 2. Lynching you gives us more information about the alignment of xsksc than lynching xsksc gives of your alignment. If we're going to be stuck in lylo with one of you I'd rather it's him. However, I suspect you of being both town now. Nevertheless, if we lynch someone else and he flips town, then we're stuck with both of you at lylo. That is a terrible spot to be in, so one of you has to die. You know this, xsksc knows this and everybody else in this game knows this. Given argument (2), you should be quite happy to die as town, as you being alive at lylo would be bad, whereas if you flip pure town we know we can lynch xsksc tomorrow and win. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 27 2012 15:35 GMT
#2014
On June 27 2012 16:13 deconduo wrote: Lynching hyaach first is the most dangerous thing to do because there's a chance acro is a traitor What does the former have to do with the latter? You think a roleblocker is more use than a DT? Also, (I repeat from above): lynching Hyaach gives us more information about the alignment of xsksc than lynching xsksc gives of Hyaach's alignment. If we're going to be stuck in lylo with one of them I'd rather it's xsksc. So once again, how is lynching Hyaach more dangerous than lynching xsksc? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 28 2012 00:41 GMT
#2048
And gonzaw wrote: Fuck yeah Portugal! lolo Netherlands...serves them right >:D screw you! And take that!!!! LALALALALAAAAA LALALALAALAAA QUEEEE VIIIIVA ESPAÑA!!! A POR ELLOS OEEE A POR ELLOS OEEE A POR ELLOS OEEE OEEE OEEE OEEE LALLALALALA LALALALALALA QUE VIIIIVA ESPAÑA!!!! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 28 2012 00:43 GMT
#2049
On June 28 2012 03:08 Zephirdd wrote: So what you guys think of the flavor? I went online at least 30~40min before each day(except the no-kill day) in order to have the flavor done. The flavour was awesome. When the game was going I was already thinking of nominating it for best flavour in the TL Awards. I'll go make the post when I'm sober | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 28 2012 01:02 GMT
#2050
@bio: sorry for shooting you. However, hearts and rainbows get you nowhere if you don't actually play townie enough to roleclaim :/ @dropbear: sorry for pushing the lynch on you. By the time your lynch rolled around I was fairly convinced you were town, but it didn't really matter anymore: too much doubt had been cast to keep you alive and your death took down nisani, who honestly really had to die, which brings me to him. @nisani: seriously. WTF was that about. You didn't read your role PM properly enough to notify town a day in advance that there weren't any AMAs left. You played your role in an anti-town way and insisted on getting yourself lynched to prevent an accolade in the post-game. I'd say you played against your main wincon by the way you dealt with your role, but okay, in the end it all worked out, so water under the bridge. @ghost: I am sorry to ghost for lynching you. I really wanted to lynch SnB, to confirm a mason without endangering 3rd party survivor wincons, but people didn't want to get onboard. Then when people started thinking of you as another option it made alot of sense. @xsksc: you recovered quite well from a pretty bad start. I stand by my D3 case, but after the case I think you had a wake-up call. It was part of the reason that a lynch on you seemed like a bad idea. When ghost flipped 3rd party I had a bit of a relapse, but Hyaach acting scummy and drazerk reasoning out that if we didn't know, Hyaach was a better lych, gave us the save. Your D3-D4 play was not bad at all. Just act townie like that all the time and you'll be fine @Hyaach: I didn't suspect you at all until you went /awol when you felt somewhat safe. I think you could be a pretty formidable scum player, but that really hurt you (and having your teammate shot in D1 obviously doesn't help). @deconduo: all's well that ends well? :D @drazerk: I still want to shoot you. @zephirdd and forumite: thanks for the game. ##I had fun /bedtime. See you all tomorrow | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 28 2012 01:05 GMT
#2051
@HiroPro: town MVP imho @SnB: you really really overthought some things (so did I ) and I didn't like your anger when people disagreed with you. However, you stayed in the background at the start and later stimulated discussion. No complaints from a town point of view! | ||
Acrofales
Spain17183 Posts
June 28 2012 14:03 GMT
#2059
Also, I'm not even sure you forgetting to send in the NK was bad for scum. It definitely created confusion. | ||
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