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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Will be my third newbie game : ). Could we wait for at least 1 or 2 replacements before starting this game? In alot of the newbie games people dropping out for no reason seem to somewhat ruin the game because replacements arent found/aren't found fast enough. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons. 1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2. 2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more. 3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still. We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him. Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post! I wanted to get this post out as fast as possible because it's my first one. Will be reading the rest of the thread now! | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Your second post is this: On June 09 2012 11:13 grush57 wrote: (Yes, lets pressure the only non-lurker) Woo! So this doesn't add anything to the discussion really. If I understand this correctly, you think that because you are posting (which at the point isn't true at all because you only posted once before but w/e) it makes you look townie and that s0Lstice and Release should instead focus at the people that havn't posted yet. Long story short: you think that lurkers are scummy. On June 09 2012 11:38 grush57 wrote: So your third post is this. Now you changed your mind. It's fine if people lurk. (What case?) Whats to talk about, seriously give me something lol. People are lurking? Yeah mlg is on and it's not even 3 hours On June 09 2012 12:07 grush57 wrote: Yeah, but I'm not a lurker. Some hours later you post this. You clearly don't want to be viewed as a lurker. Still you post only very short posts, wouldn't it be more effective to post longer posts with better content if you wanted to apear non-lurker? Instead of telling everyone that you aren't a lurker? On June 09 2012 12:12 grush57 wrote: Even later, Unless you find a clear scum(this is on D1, aka hard to find clear scum) you are fine with lynching lurkersYeah but I want scum lynched not necessarily a lurker. However, if there are no clear scum then a lurker lynch would be best. On June 09 2012 12:22 grush57 wrote: So you don't want to lynch a scum. You want to lynch a lurker that will give no information. Ah, that isn't scummy. Once again you change your mind. Lurkers gives no information. I take this as lynching lurkers are terrible I guess. The last post before you are off. On June 09 2012 13:55 grush57 wrote: So now you are once again really suspicious of people not posting. Also if there are two mafia among the lurkers it means that you have a townread on s0Lstice, KtheZ and Release. Correct?K well it's hard to do with half the people didn't even post yet. I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers. You are all over the place atm. You don't take a clear stance with your opinion on lurkers but flip your opinion like 4 times. And you also seem very concerned with the possibilty of being a lurker. It's really simple. If you post good stuff, you will not be considered a lurker. There is no point in trying to convince us wheter oor not you are one. FoS: grush57 | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 09 2012 18:11 The_Zen_Man wrote:Also, as to my opinions on lynching, i agree that in case there is a hard lurker and no scum reads we should lynch the lurker, as he is not contributing anyways. But lynching with not much information (like d1) will probably result in a misslynch. We still gain information even is there is no lynch, by observing how players act before lynch, what they vote for, reaction after lynch, etc. There isn't ever going to be a situation where we have no scumreads at the deadline. Never. We already have grush57 being massivly suspicious and this is just a couple of hours into the game! Yes we gain info from nolynches but nowhere as much as a normal lynch. The reason being is that nolynch isn't really a bad choice for scum so they don't really have to take a specific stance anywhere in order to fit in. I think no lynch simply is inferior to lynching. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 09 2012 22:57 grush57 wrote: Lazermonkey you'r misinterpreting things and putting words in my mouth. The words I type are what they mean, I was never lying. I never said that you lied. I think at least ; ). You are the person with the most posts atm but out of those posts 50% are about how you want to lynch scum and what not. They didn't really give us anything. The other 50% is about lurkers. The major issue for me is that even after theese posts I don't get a clear view on your opinion on lurkers. Yes, we know that you prefer to lynch obvious scum instead of lurkers. Anything but that would be strange. Except for that, your opinion seem to flip back and foreward. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 09 2012 23:09 ha236 wrote: He does not say that it is "fine if people lurk". My interpretation of the sentances is that he does not know what to post about and then proposes the subject of why people are not posting and offers his explanation (being that the game just started, people might not be by the computer and even if they are they may be watching MLG). I might have been exaggerating a bit but if you compare with the tone of his previous post there is a clear difference. On June 09 2012 11:13 grush57 wrote: (Yes, lets pressure the only non-lurker) Woo! Feel free to correct me grush, but I take this as; Why push me when you could push someone who isn't posting? And why would you ever push someone if you didn't think they were scummy? He is implying that there is scum among lurkers, which at that point wasn't to bold of a claim to make due to the fact that only 3 people had posted back then. The second post is more like; Sure people lurks atm but it's fine due to the circumstances None of the posts individually strikes me as scummy but together I feel he is contradicting himself quite a bit. If he thinks there is scum among lurkers then why doesn't he push any of them? And if he thinks that it's okay with people lurking at some circumstances why is he now suspicious of the lurkers? On June 09 2012 23:09 ha236 wrote: In this paragraph Lazermonkey is trying to make the rest of us believe that grush said something he has not, that he is "suspicious of people not posting". Grush says he "wouldn't be surprised if the two mafia are in those lurkers" and from this Lazermonkey believes him to have a town read on the rest of the posters at that time. How? If he thinks there is two scum among lurkers and there is a total of two scum in the game, there cannot be any scum among those who are posting, right? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:07 ha236 wrote: This isn't the point I am making. He says he "wouldn't be surprised" if this were the case, not that he is sure that it is the case and from what I understand he isn't making this assumption based on his "readings", rather a motto that players that don't post alot are usually mafia (which, to me isn't very logical). Why would he say ''I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers.'' if he didn't even think that himself? He could've just kept his mouth shut if his thoughts were very vauge. He choosed not to. So he thinks it's of enough substance to be posted. And even if you are correct I don't like this post. He doesn't help us at all by saying ''there is a possibilty of 2 scum hiding among the lurkers''. Everyone understands this. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Lazermonkey seems to make his own conclusions about grush, without it being the truth, as ha236 stated. His latest comments about the "i wouln't be suprised" quote is strange. Grush simply said that the scum might be among the ones that had not posted, but you just jumped to the conclusion that he meant that everyone that had posted was his townread. You also jumped to conclusion when grush wrote: [QUOTE]On June 09 2012 11:38 grush57 wrote: (What case?) Whats to talk about, seriously give me something lol. People are lurking? Yeah mlg is on and it's not even 3 hours [/QUOTE]So your third post is this. Now you changed your mind. It's fine if people lurk. [QUOTE][B] Where you assumed his stance was changed on lurkers. I think he only wanted to state a reason for people not posting. I agree that grush seemed scummy, but don't try to come up with conclusion that are not true.[/QUOTE] Did you even read my answer to ha236? I feel like I have already answered all of your questions... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:54 ha236 wrote: I didn't say that he wasn't thinking it, I said that he wasn't sure. As for why he said it, probably for the reason of generating discussion - which everyone is so keen on doing on day one from what I've gathered. You can never be sure of anyone being scum, unless you of course are scum/detective. On D1, your accusations will never be more than an educated guess. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 05:14 Release wrote: lazermonkey, you were putting words in grush's mouth. Stop it. grush is 100% allowed to answer my accusations himself. In fact, I'd much rather prefer that over having you, ha236 and Thezenman telling me that I'm putting words in grush's mouth. Also mind to show exactly WHERE I made these false assuomptions you are talking about? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 05:42 s0Lstice wrote: Release, what do you think of my post on ha236? Lazermonkey, same question. I dunno what to think yet. He needs to post more before a can make a clear read. My initiall thought is that he is somewhat of an inexperienced townie or scum. I share your suspicion on him at this very moment, not only because of your post but also because of the way he doesn't seem to take a clear stance anywhere. He is soft defending grush but still thinks he is suspcious? His only real critique at this point is against me for making to big assumptions against grush. He still states that he overall agree with my suspicion of grush. I need to go to bed now, will be away for about 12 hours : S. See you guys tomorrow! | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
But I'm not really interested in how many percent chance you think it is for him to be scum, rather who you think we should lynch and why. You havn't really said why you think Ha236 looks scummy, only that you think there is a certain possibilty for him to be scum. Also would you be able to lynch into someone like Ha? Or are you only up for a grushlynch atm? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 06:46 The_Zen_Man wrote: Did you read my post? I merely posted my opinion on you, i didn't post ask question. But it is good that you answered my imaginary questions. The_Zen_Man : I assumed that those were questions. Why would you ever post it otherwise? You say it's your opinion but basically all you had done was copy paste Ha236 concerns on my post. Like LITTERALY the same post. Except your claim your are just opinions. But it still confuses the shit out of me. I had answered all of his questions. You did not include any of these in your post. why? was it: a) You didn't think the answers were good enough b) You didn't read it c) ??? Since I ''make up my own conclusions which aren't true'' to quote you, I'll let you answer the questions this time. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 18:13 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey, in my post i wanted to say that i supported ha236 that you made conclusion on grush that were not true, so it was bound to be similliar. I even said that it was what ha said in my post. Ha had already posed questions to you, but your answers were not very good. in one of your answers you agree that " might have been exaggerating a bit", which is basically saying that you were lying. That is not really a good answer. Then, with your second answer, you argue about the meaning of grush saying "I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers", which clearly means that he thinks that the mafia might be among the lurkers, not that they are definetly there. And no, it wasn't "LITTERALY" the same post, because if it had been that it would be one and the same. The case against The_Zen_Man So instead of writing ''I agree'', you took the time to write the whole case again? Not only is this useless and waste of time, it's also the way scum would play. You make it look like you post stuff of actuall value when it's in fact crap. You said my answers weren't very good. How am I suposed to know that? Because the concern here must lie in that you were unsatisfied with my answers, otherwise why would you post it in the first place? Yes I said I " might have been exaggerating a bit" but you are taking it completly out of context. I don't think you read my post very carefully if you said that. You make it look like I confessed that I lied. If you read the post this is clearly not what I did. You give 100% the exact answer that ha236 did once again here, regarding "I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers". I have already said what I think about this but still you don't inculde it in your post. Why is this? did you not like this answer either? am I suposed to ''assume this''? I don't get you ZenMan. You tunnel me like no tomorrow. But your cases are all crap. Either they are exact copies of Ha236 or they are over exaggerations and/or lies. None of that is good for town. You think grush is scummy, but you don't add thought behind that at all. You also put soft defense for him all over the place, but is very clear with that you still think he is scummy. You even say we should lynch him and ''then we can think about how to proceed once he flips.''. Bandwagon much? You don't think Ha236 looks scummy at all. You don't give any reasons at all for this. Still he havn't taken any clear stances anywhere? You don't think this is scummy? Is there a possibilty of you two being scumbros prehaps? Tbh you just fucking broke my scummo-o-meter. You don't write cases, at beast you copy them from Ha236, at worst you say things without a singel reference or post to back it up. You try(intentional or not) to pull the action away from both grush and Ha236 by posting crazy cases on me. I am willing to lynch grush or Ha236 if that is the only alternative but right now my suspicion on The_Zen_Man is tenfold my suspicion on those two combined. ##Vote: The_Zen_Man | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:First of all, i would like to say that i am not making this in respond to Lazermonkey voring on me, but rather that he said that i did not have any ideas of my own. That's cool for me.On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, that's what you should've done in this case. Can you mention even one thing in this post that isn't already in ha236s post?Now i would like to talk about your vote. First you say that i should have just written "i agree" in my post, which is what I basically did, I just referred to Ha236 post. But you seemed to think that i wrote this as my own post, which i did not. On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:Then you later on say that i "tunnel" you, after i have just posted about 2 posts about you. Once again you exaggerate a lot. This is a typical scum play, to make small things seem very big, so that they can build on a case that is not really there. I don't think it's an exaggeration. You've made 7 posts so far(not counting the /in-post).1 is about how you missquoted 1 is about how you think Ha236 is not scum(but this is a crap post as you basically only says that). 1 is your introction post 4 is about me So basically you have two useless posts, 4 about me and one that is not. So 80% of your posts of substance is about me. On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:You go on to say that i put "sof defense" for grush. Where have i done this? This seems like a scum move also, fabricating facts that do not exists. I have stated my opinion on grush before. ##Fos: Lazermonkey First you told Release to ease the pressure on grush. Then you also accused my case against grush of being bad. You are also one of the few people that havn't yet put any pressure on grush. This is ''soft defense'' in my eyes. You havn't said you don't think he is scum but if he flips green then you will be among those who looks least guilty.On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote: It's intresting that you keep saying that the case on ha236 is so weak when there are already a couple of people willing to vote for him. Surely there must be at least something with his play that is suspicous? ''Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?'', so the fact that I thought there were something worth of notice in his post makes us both scum? eh...What is also interesting is that not long after ha236 posted about Lazermonkeys's flawed logic and "exaggerating", Solstice came and posted a "case" on ha236, which was imo very weak. Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon? On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote: After i posted some more on Lazermonkey where i was suspicous of his post on Grush, he immediatly voted on me to turn the attention to me. This can be a scum move, as they can start to panic and direct the attention elsewhere Lolwat. This is like the opposite of what I did. Your first posts was insanly strange and with lack of logic. Yet I didn't post a case on you. It was only after you had posted no more than 3 posts against me, all filled with crap that I wrote the actual case. On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey later goes on by saying that i pull the action away from grush, but that i am trying to start a bandwagon on him. This is contradictory. Why would i pull the action away from him if i wanted to bandwagon him? I don't know, that is for you to decide as you are the scum : ). I can think of plenty of alternatives. This also adds up to my point about your indecisiveness of grush. You pull the action away from him, doesn't push him at all yet you say we should lynch him without giving any alternatives? On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote: I am not going to vote for you because that would be to sink to your level. I prefer to stay calm instead of just voting for the other person, but you did rise on my scum reads. ##Fos: Lazermonkey Why so scared of voting me? Why would I write this case if you were a townie? Either admitt your very flawed logic or you should belive that I am scum. You did neither. And you even said earlier in the post that my play was much like scum play and also you thought there was a chance for me and s0Lstice to be scumbros. And yet you don't vote me... I have answered all you questions. You however failed to answer one of mine. Why do you not think Ha236 looks scummy? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 10 2012 21:56 ha236 wrote: No, that's not really what I meant. I find it odd that The_Zen_Man is able to say that the case against you were weak, without a singel motivation even though there are people willing to lynch into you for that. This part stands out to me. You're basing your suspiscion on the fact that solstice and Release have said so? I might have misunderstood this but the reason people think I'm suspicious is because I've softly defended grush. If I havn't allready let me go over it again; I don't think grush is scum. In my opinion there is not enough information to decide this, basically the only thing grush has posted about is trying to defend himself against Release's relentless nitpicking of his posts. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you overestimate the value of that conversation. Anyone in their right minds understands that encouraging the rest of the players to not post (not exposing any information) so you're stuck at square one for the whole game pretty much labels you as mafia instantly. It's way to simple to lynch him because of this. He felt obligied to defend himself since he didn't want to end up in the situation (that he's in now anyway) where he's look suspicious because he hasn't answered peoples questions. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 11 2012 02:31 grush57 wrote: K, we all know ha is mafia and that post pretty much tells who the scum team is. Besides defending a suspicious player and being very suspicious, he isn't scummy to me. Random ass numbers. He isn't making a bold move and a clear opinion on things. Very scummy. As town you have to stick to your guns like Release.That's why Release is my only 100% town read. Also, all the people somewhat defending me right now are town as well, as I know I'm town. The mafia are going to push me as I'm the most suspicious and somewhat defending Ha like KtheZ is. Very bad logic here. If scum smell that a lynch is going your way they could easily put up defense in favor of you. Then if we still misslynch you(assuming you are town now...) they gain town cred for defending you. Also this post contain contradiction. You say Release is 100% town read for you but also that scum would push you because you look suspicous. Release have been the one pushing you hardest this far. How can you have 100% townread on him then? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 11 2012 03:51 KtheZ wrote: So now that it is time to decide who to lynch, we should think about whose lynch will provide the most information. The current FoS/Lynch votes have been directed to: grush<---- Release(voted), me ha<------- s0lstice The_zen_man<-------- Lazermonkey(FoS) Lazermonkey<---------- The_Zen_man(FoS) Or something like this. To me, the most probable first day lynch will be grush or ha. (zen man and lazermonkey have been trading blows with one another, but we havent paid attention to that all that much) First off, I voted The_Zen_Man, he FoSed me. Why havn't you paid attention to my case on The_Zen_Man? Unless I'm misstaken it's about 4 hours untill deadline. This is more than enough time for us to get 5 on this scum also known as The_Zen_Man. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
grush Ha236 me(Lazermonkey) The_Zen_Man s0Lstice s0Lstice were also suspicious of KtheZ recently, although no FoS were placed. We need to know who are willing to vote for who, even if they are not your n1 scumread if we are going to get a decent lynch tonight. Right now my main scumread is The_Zen_Man but I am also willing to lynch grush. Ha236 has imo given quite solid response to the accusations against him and I'm not very keen on lynching him anymore. I am not sure about either s0lstice and KtheZ yet tho, as their cases were very recently posted. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 11 2012 05:15 The_Zen_Man wrote: Well, i have said my opinion on Lazermonkey, but i am still equally suspicous of grush (still don't know why people say i soft defended him), and seeing as the support for him is stronger than Lazermonkey i can vote for him too. But ha236 still does not seem scummy to me, and i would prefer not to lynch him. YO ZENMAN! You have still some unanswered questions, remember? I explain why prople think you are soft defending grush, so it might be worth a look ; ). + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2012 21:11 Lazermonkey wrote: That's cool for me. Yes, that's what you should've done in this case. Can you mention even one thing in this post that isn't already in ha236s post? I don't think it's an exaggeration. You've made 7 posts so far(not counting the /in-post). 1 is about how you missquoted 1 is about how you think Ha236 is not scum(but this is a crap post as you basically only says that). 1 is your introction post 4 is about me So basically you have two useless posts, 4 about me and one that is not. So 80% of your posts of substance is about me. First you told Release to ease the pressure on grush. Then you also accused my case against grush of being bad. You are also one of the few people that havn't yet put any pressure on grush. This is ''soft defense'' in my eyes. You havn't said you don't think he is scum but if he flips green then you will be among those who looks least guilty. It's intresting that you keep saying that the case on ha236 is so weak when there are already a couple of people willing to vote for him. Surely there must be at least something with his play that is suspicous? ''Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?'', so the fact that I thought there were something worth of notice in his post makes us both scum? eh... Lolwat. This is like the opposite of what I did. Your first posts was insanly strange and with lack of logic. Yet I didn't post a case on you. It was only after you had posted no more than 3 posts against me, all filled with crap that I wrote the actual case. I don't know, that is for you to decide as you are the scum : ). I can think of plenty of alternatives. This also adds up to my point about your indecisiveness of grush. You pull the action away from him, doesn't push him at all yet you say we should lynch him without giving any alternatives? Why so scared of voting me? Why would I write this case if you were a townie? Either admitt your very flawed logic or you should belive that I am scum. You did neither. And you even said earlier in the post that my play was much like scum play and also you thought there was a chance for me and s0Lstice to be scumbros. And yet you don't vote me... I have answered all you questions. You however failed to answer one of mine. Why do you not think Ha236 looks scummy? To everyone else: Why have almost noone commented on my case on The_Zen_Man/his case on me so far? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 11 2012 05:42 The_Zen_Man wrote: I don't care about your intentions here. You told him to ease the pressure on grush. You never said anything about grush but that you thought he looked scummy. You didn't bring the case even one centimeter further. You also said my case against grush was bad. Thus you soft defended him.First of all, the reason i wanted release to ease the pressure was not to "soft defend" grush, but so that the discussion would not get more out of hand, and someone else say what they think about him. They filled up 5 pages of posts, and in the end of the discussion release himself said that his comment would be useless to anyone but grush, If it has turned out like that, it benefits the case if we get some fresh eyes on the subject. You then say that i accused your case of being bad. You had a lot of flaws in your post, which we discussed before, and that is why i said it was bad. I have from the beginning said that i am suspicous of grush, and i am pushing for a lynch of him now. So you first say you think grush looks suspicious, without saying why. Then you post one hellofacase on me. You then decide to vote grush anyway. Lol? And you still haven't said why you think he is scummy. Just that he is... On June 11 2012 05:45 The_Zen_Man wrote: If it gets to a choice between grush and ha(which it seems to go too) i will choose grush. I do not like ha as a lynch, but grush has seemed much more suspicous to me. If people feel the same, now is the time to vote for him. ##Vote: grush57 Yet another post. He is suspicious. Why? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
So now we have 3 people saying that they are willing to vote for Zen. With the help of Ha236 that gives us 5. Let's kill this scum now, shall we? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
1). His indecisiveness in the early game. I don't agree so much with you on this point. His early post about me he clearly said he thought my opinion on grush was strange but he agreed with my statement about lurkers. This is not a contradiction which some of you seem to think. I think that his opinions on grush were wish-washy and not very precise to begin with but he later on gave some good explanations on his thoughts. Overall I think that he should've stated this reasons from the start rather than being so unsure but I don't see this a scumtell. 2). His vote against s0lstice and Release. While I think his behavior here is quite odd and I certainly don't see it as a town move, I don't see it as a scum move either. Neither s0lstice nor Release were ever close to getting lynched. I see this as a way for him to respond to the massive critique from s0lstice. s0lstice had basically tunneled Ha hard at that point. And his main argument and reason for his suspicion was his post on me. I can understand that Ha got frustrated that s0lstice tried to make a case out of something that wasn't there and also ignored his explainations. To ha236: With this being said, you are nowhere close to a strong townread for me. You have almost have no reads up untill this point, one of the few being s0lstice who were in fact town. You need to stop defending yourself and instead post your own reads. If you get lynched and flip town, and all you ever did was to OMGUS everyone that accused you then we are in a tough spot. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Vivax post count is okay given that he he missed basically the first 24 hours or so of the game so note that I'm not actually usuing his lurking as a reason for his suspicion but rather the content in his posts.He have been playing insanely passive up untill this point. You should all check out his filter. This guy has during D1 pretty much not taken a clear stance anywhere. + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2012 21:12 Vivax wrote: Good day guys. I opened this thread with the expectation of everyone pointing his finger at me for lurking so heavily the first half of day 1, for which I apologize now. I have had a REALLY shit day yesterday, and I didn't have any motivation whatsoever to get into the internet. I am not very willing to specify what happened yesterday since this is still the internet, I'll just mention that it involved me driving. Now that it's Sunday, I can lean back a bit, gonna have quite some shit going on from tomorrow on, but I feel that I can keep contributing to this game in spite of the circumstances, but don't expect me to be online whenever you are. Oh, and you should also know where I'm located to know the times I'm posting at: Austria/CET. Time to start Top-down: Like I already mentioned, I expected everyone to suspect me cause of policy lynching. Surprisingly, that's not the case. The policy talk quickly resulted into Release squeezing grush like a lemon throughout the game, but grush results to be a pretty dry one, just releasing unjuicy drops which only help to fortify the suspicions against him. Frankly I think Release has a really aggressive playstyle reminding me of my own last game, it's a great way to gain transparent information from other people and to a lesser extent from the accused ones, but also involves risks of all kind. The subsequent posts regaridng this case all revolve around the initial posts as tells. My verdict is: Release looks like he's tunneling pretty hard with the aggressive style, on the other hand I have to give him credit for getting out so much information from this case, town really IS busy due to this. Grush, well, if he's town I would be able to understand his somewhat angry, resignated answers as follow-up. If he's scum I would also be able to understand his high amount of one-liners with the least possible amount of information. However, his first posts really weren't helpful to town, so I'll treat him as suspicious, but not definitely guilty. I feel it's too early for me to cast a vote on him, he kind of reminds me of + Show Spoiler + superouman If he's the only alternative to a No lynch, you'll have my vote nontheless. I'm going to post more very soon, I'd prefer to keep my posts focused on single cases since I have to post a lot at once. The first post by Vivax. Note that this is a long post. Note what he is saying. Well, what is he saying? Release is pushing grush hard but still he think it's good. grush is strange but he could very well be town. He is willing to lynch grush, at least under some circumstances. What did he REALLY say here? Remember my first post where I talked about different types of lurkers? This is the type who writes hellofapost and still very little content. + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2012 22:22 Vivax wrote: Okay, I've been doing a stance analysis on the grush case and here's my promised post: s0lstice prefers to go on with policy discussion in the first posts and goes on with it until he outs for the night. When he's back, he completely drops grush and the policy discussion and puts his FoS on ha2etc. Release thinks grush is guilty. Pretty much everyone agreed on grushs post about 'nothing to discuss' being a really bad suggestion for town play. Many dropped the case or defended grush in spite of this. KtheZ notices the overconfidence of Release against grush and points out the danger of tunneling. But he also believes grush to have made scummy moves. I find his semi-calculations pretty strange tbh, but I guess it's his way of FoSing. ShiaoPi has one post in which he says people should stop tunneling grush and instead pressure ha2etc. . What strikes me here is that he wants to pressure ha2etc. for actually defending grush. I find this to be contradictory. Lazermonkey notices grush's suspicious posts and focuses on the people defending him in consequence after placing his FoS on grush. ha2etc. soft-defends grush. The_Zen_Man soft-defends grush. I'm keeping my summary of the swedes in this thread rather short cause there are complex cases developing around them and I think these deserve an in-depth analysis before a summary. So here is a summary post. Contains our opinions about grush. Not his own tho. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote: Here's an inofficial vote count somewhat including the order. grush: ha236: s0lstice, Release The_Zen_Man: Lazermonkey grush57: KTheZ s0lstice: Release: ha236 Guys, we're at close danger of a no-lynch. I'm not very satisfied with ha236 as option cause I find his first posts regarding Lazermonkey and Release to be true, but on the other hand he didn't make a single case except for OMGUS ones now in the end and instead only spent time defending grush and himself. It was a pretty bad day 1 imo, and it can get even worse if we will have to further lurk in the dark, you'll have my vote on ha236 for the sake of the lynch, but be aware of the fact that I'll gladly switch it for any other majority. ##vote ha236 @ s0lstice odd analysis? To me town play seems to be messed up atm and you should actually thank me for getting a bit of transparency in here. Every single and good player would make such a summary in a case before going on and accusing single persons. I doubt one would want to play with a narrow sight. So he does not like ha236 lynch. I'm okay with that. I'm even okay with that he says he is willing to lynch into Ha236 if he needs to, in order to archive majority. What I'm NOT okey with is that he still doesn't give an option. He is fast on on dismiss both grush and ha236 as targets but what does he think himself? Still he havn't given one scumread himself. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 06:21 Vivax wrote: Needless summarization? That is the type of summarization a good townie uses to get an idea of the connections someone had once he flips. If grush gets lynched, you can look up my summary and check the connections between grush and other players. Just cause you don't see the use doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Btw, I can prove you are being selective since I didn't see you pick on the following summary yet. I just wonder if you are being selective on purpose cause raising suspicion on me would further increase the chance of a No lynch or if it's by mistake. While working on Lazermonkeys case against The_Zen_Man i found another 'needless summarization': + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 04:47 Lazermonkey wrote: So right now, we have not too much time untill lynching. We need to get something done here. With nine players there are 5(Lol) players that have received FoS/Votes unless I'm misstaken. These players are: grush Ha236 me(Lazermonkey) The_Zen_Man s0Lstice s0Lstice were also suspicious of KtheZ recently, although no FoS were placed. Regarding The_Zen_Man case: I especially liked LazerMans point regarding the contradiction between the FoS on him, but the vote on grush. It looks like The_Zen_Man doesn't believe much in his own case. We also have to consider that The_Zen_Man mostly used ha236 points already posted to soft-defend grush. That would allow scum to deflect attention to ha236 again in case gursh flips green. That's about the latest points made by Lazermonkey, now to my own analysis, I'll be especially focusing on The_Zen_Man's first posts: 1. Here's the broken promise: We still have no analysis on grush from you. In a lynch all liars environment you would already be in huge trouble. 2. Without the analysis, you proceed to soft-defend him. The problem about your posts is the way you do that: You tell Release to focus on someone else. Imagine if he suddenly switched target like you propose, that would make him look quite inconsistent...and scummy. 3. The opinions on lynching. I mean, seriously? This part confuses the hell out of me. We should lynch lurkers, but on the other hand you say it will probably result in a mislynch. Then you actually say that we might gain information without a lynch. How is that so? Both points lack reasoning behind them and contradict the other points in your post. Your opinion on lynching policy is wishy washy and no opinion, you seem to promote everything at once. The next posts show your support of ha, always disproving points others make against grush, but at the same time you emphasize your beliefs that he looks scummy. Once ha gets into the crosshair, all of sudden you think it's best to drop all your defenses of grush and to lynch him. When Lazermonkey actually notices your suspicious behavior: I think this quotation of mine reminds that he does have a point about that. You took many of the points about grushs defense from ha236, allowing you to deflect responsibility in case they turn out to be wrong. Looking at your and ha2's posts, your stances are soft and inconsistent as opposed to his, so I'll let you know: If there's a choice between a majority on you and a majority on ha2, I will pick the one against you. ##FoS The_Zen_Man His first real case on someone. This time he gives some actual opnions, which is good. However, why the FoS? Why not a vote? He first agrees with alot of my points about Zen_Man and also brings up a couple of new ones. All in all, the whole posts are filled with accusations yet he only FoS him. I feel like he is testing the waters here. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 07:20 Vivax wrote: I've got the vote for Zen_Man ready, I'll give him about 30 minutes more time to post a defense, then I will proceed to vote for him. We have a majority on him, that's for sure. I think even 6, not 5. Count me in in case he doesn't post a nukeproof defense. Strange post. You said earlier that in case of majority on Zen_Man, you would vote him. Yet you don't. Contradiction here. Vivax finally decides to vote Zen_Man anyway but only after both Ha236 and s0lstice have laid down their votes. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 20:33 Vivax wrote: Sucks that s0lstice got lynched, he was one of the few active posters here. With people being lazy it's even easier for mafia to choose the active ones to get killed first. GG and thanks for the activity yo. Let's get back to the real stuff, I think we have a good clue of the direction to move into:
I have no decisive scumreads yet. But I'll pick one of the three based on his post quality, activity levels and gut feeling: ##Vote grush57 The tone is this post is sooo... I don't know, different? You finally give out reads. In the end of your post tho, you say you have no decisive scumreads tho. You still vote grush right away. Think about how hard it was for him to vote Zen_Man last night even tho he had loads of suspicion on him and compare to this. wtf. You would also fine with lynching any of theese 3. I feel you're almost wanting to lynch for the sake of lynching here. We don't lynch because of that, we lynch because we want to kill scum. At least one of these persons must be townie but you are still okay with lynching any of them. And your motivations for lynching any of them is kinda meh. Your problems with both Ha and KTheZ seems to be their activity level and not the content of their posts. Overall, this guy has basically taken no strong stances anywhere. He makes huge posts with little to no content. All players he have put up this ''weak'' pressure on are those who are already under heavy fire. First grush, then Ha236, then Zen_Man and lastly KTheZ. With all these players(maybe not Zen_Man tho) he basically says ''I'm willing to lynch if necesary but I'm not sure he is scum''. This is classic bandwagon play. ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
1). You claim DT DESPITE being VT. If this is a joke, it's the worst one ever. I can only think of 1 situation where this would be smart, if you want to bait bullets from scum in order to let the real detective get one more garuanteed check off. This is just really risky play and can end up in a real mess if you don't do it correctly. But let's for once think if that's what grush actually wanted to do here. Why would you in that case claim someone to be scum? You are forcing a counterclaim here, which is what happend. A much easier way would probebly be if you claimed someone to be town as there is a much higher chance for someone to be town. 2). When Kthez claims you say that you are a just a townie. Lol? I can get that you wanted to tank bullets but this is a noob game and hoping that noone would counterclaim is stupid. This cannot simply be town play... ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: grush57 | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:19 Vivax wrote: Didn't see a claim yet, but if both claim we will nail 1 scum for sure. One hour has passed and still nothing from KTheZ. Grush has been derping around all game long, but KTheZ is surpassing him at it right now. He's either a pretty bad townie or scum denying information. Pretty sloppy from both perspectives to announce he's gonna post something and then leave it unfulfilled. I don't think a scum grush would claim like that without a good reason, he isn't under pressure atm and if KtheZ flips town he's dead anyway. I'm very curious to see if KtheZ actually ends up replying. #unvote ##Vote KTheZ I still wanna hear opinions regarding the 'Lazermonkey vs. me-case'. And now that grush is most likely a townie he can stop playing the minimalist style  Am I the only one who noticed this post? Now I really think grush is the scum. So you think Kthez is the scum because he ''denying info'' but then you say both of them are withholding info (which is were true at the time of this post). Contradiction. ''I don't think a scum grush would claim like that without a good reason, he isn't under pressure atm and if KtheZ flips town he's dead anyway. ''. I know you wrote this before he claimed VT but it seems just like he did this without any reason what so ever. Link to Vivax filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960&user=171343. He haven't taken a clear stance on grush at all, despite all the action on him. Notice how all of his posts about grush is either summaries of other peoples views or himself and how he thinks grush looks suspicious but probebly shouldn't be lynched but he is willing to lynch if he it comes down to a no lynch. Super wish washy. Doesn't push the case at all. And a perfect setup for a buss in case grush seems to fuck up far too much. Did I just nail the 2 scum here? : D | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On June 13 2012 04:34 ha236 wrote: Allright, I'll do it on d3 since there are more pressing matters (KtheZ vs grush) atm I rather want you to do that now but in case you simply don't have the time I am fine with you posting it on N2, minutes before D3. Because if you get shot, we will have no info by you to go with! | ||
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On June 13 2012 11:11 grush57 wrote: Okay, so KtheZ is town as I doubt a mafia would fake it, I'm town, Release is town, Lazermonkey is town,so basically the 2 mafia are out of: Shiapo, Vivax and ha236.(3 people left) Why are you so sure Release is town? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 14 2012 03:08 grush57 wrote: Because mafia doesn't spam the thread and tunnel. Mafia also don't make clear decisions. I don't know why you are letting ha live right now lol. Because the DT claim was the worst thing I've ever seen, you made our DT claim, which means he will 99,9% chance die this night. Why would you do this as a townie? On June 14 2012 03:09 grush57 wrote: I'm pretty sure that if you lynch me it'll be 3 town to 2 mafia, and then night will make it 2-2, mafia wins sooooooooooooo make the right choice now. Not true. it's 5-2 now, so D3 we will have two MYLOs in case we misslynch. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 12 2012 22:33 Vivax wrote: I've already responded to s0lstice in defense of my first posts. He also felt my summarizations were needless. If you want answers to your accusations, read spoiler 3 and 4. It pretty much comes down to whether or not you think it's useless if someone posts overviews of town relations. Which is not what I said either. I said you used this summaries to hide the fact that you weren't takeing a clear stance anywhere... On June 12 2012 22:33 Vivax wrote:Then you say I didn't give scumreads yet. Just lol, the next spoiler already contains my read, I wonder why you bother criticizing me for something which is disproved in the next thing you mention You even said youself that Zen_Man was a super easy target. He apeared scummy as fuck so you don't really need to take a risk at all when pushing him. I don't blame you for pushing the misslynching Zen_Man, I did aswell. But don't say that you are taking alot of stances and opinions when the only stance you have ever really taken was on him. On June 12 2012 22:33 Vivax wrote: I said earlier that I would vote for Zen_Man in case that there was a majority possible on him. While I was writing that, town was about to lynch ha236. If I switched my vote at the point you find suspicious cause I didn't do so, then I would have put the town at danger of a no lynch. Gl the next day with no new information gained except for a nightkill that might allow mafia to make someone look suspicious or get rid of a better townie than the would-have-been-lynched one.A lynch is always better than no lynch, Zen_Man really appeared scummy. He didn't even claim. It was a solid lynch from a perspective of someone not knowing his alignment, and if he wouldn't have died, he just would have kept the circle of suspects bigger along with town's insecurity. Okay, I kinda buy this one. Still, you weren't the first one to swap the vote. On June 12 2012 22:33 Vivax wrote: That was my defense to your feeble points, now I think you really deserve to be in the spotlight for what I'm about to post: I still have posted more useful cases than anyone I mentioned in my post above. I wonder why you suddenly start bothering me and not them. You are giving them incentives to keep lurking, and their lurking is one of the reason I don't have decisive scumreads on them. That, on the other hand, makes YOU suspicious. When I'm about to call out lurkers, you start accusing me with a really weak case. 'When you can't defend your scumbuddies, discredit their attackers' could be what you're plotting. /care? Here is piece of your post that is 100% uneccesary. Once again posting useless material to make it look like you are contributing while you aren't. There are WIFOM here. Also don't make it look like you are townie just because you are calling out lurkers... On June 12 2012 22:33 Vivax wrote: Haha, this is kinda funny actually. Not only a random insult but also contradiction. You said when posting your own case on Zen_Man that you agreed with alot of things in my case. Why do you agree with a weak case? Don't you think that is a bit scummy? You have a history of tunneling mate, and your posts aren't less wishywashy than what you think of other people's posts, just check this out: + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 04:47 Lazermonkey wrote: So right now, we have not too much time untill lynching. We need to get something done here. With nine players there are 5(Lol) players that have received FoS/Votes unless I'm misstaken. These players are: grush Ha236 me(Lazermonkey) The_Zen_Man s0Lstice s0Lstice were also suspicious of KtheZ recently, although no FoS were placed. We need to know who are willing to vote for who, even if they are not your n1 scumread if we are going to get a decent lynch tonight. Right now my main scumread is The_Zen_Man but I am also willing to lynch grush. Ha236 has imo given quite solid response to the accusations against him and I'm not very keen on lynching him anymore. I am not sure about either s0lstice and KtheZ yet tho, as their cases were very recently posted. Look how scummy you actually are, even by your own definition. You make a summarization (I used that to prove s0lstice's selective view.) You moderate a lot: 'We need to get something done', 'We need to know who are willing to vote for who' and 'even if they are not your n1 scumread' I highlighted this cause it contradicts the points in your case against me. You say I'm scummy cause I tell who I'm willing to vote for, and then I'm scummy cause I'm not entirely sure of the scumreads on them when I vote. You actually promoted that in your moderation . Not to mention your stances on lynch candidates, the syntax of that part is 'I'm not sure on who to lynch', that's all one can get from what you wrote there. First of, I don't see the contradiction here. I said I was 100% willing to lynch Zen_Man. I was also willing to lynch grush if that was required in order to gain majority for a lynch. I was not willing to lynch Ha236. Because both the case against s0lstice and the case vs Kthez were quite new at that point, my read on thoose two were very slim. Thus I hadn't decided on if I was willing to lynch thoose two yet. But as the day progressed, it was obvious that none of thoose two were about to be lynched so I simply dropped them and focused on Zen_Man. Once again, never said that summaries were scummy. You are making that up Also the differences between this post and yours are huge. This post was made just some hours before lynch and almost noone had dropped their vote at that point. You seem to agree with that no lynch is bad for town. This is what I wanted to stop.Your post on the other hand were posted at the very start of the day. There were no stress in getting the post done. still you claimed you'd be okay with any of the 3 persons getting lynched. Lolwtf? And your arguments for them getting lynched was, as said before, weak and hardly worth a lynch. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Lazermonkey
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On June 14 2012 04:37 ShiaoPi wrote: Lazer, right now I am more or less just waiting for the flip of grush. Nothing more to say right now, as he will be our lynch today, even if he is a townie his play is soo ridiculously anti-town that we are probably better off without him Considering that if we misslynch, we are at 2 MYLOs I don't really agree here but w/e. I see your point. I might not stay up untill the lynch as I need to get up quite early in the morning tomorrow as I feel everyone is having this mentality right now. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 14 2012 05:28 Vivax wrote: Guess why I only quote this. This quoted part is a good example of your way of bad thinking (or acting). 'Vivax doesn't swap his vote first, thus his argument is invalid and he is mafia'. Yeah sure. Really smart move bro. Read the quote. There's already the reason why I wasn't among the first to swap, it's cause it might have put the town at risk of a no lynch. You don't just say: 'I BUY IT', no, you're even so clever to say right next to it: 'BUT YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS CAUSE OF IT'. And this is how town should look at you after reading this:    -> + Show Spoiler + I really hope that other townies recognize how often you are contradicting yourself (within really close textparts!!!) in your desperate attempts to tunnel me. Wow, you are stupid right now. Yup, I said just that. I wouldn't have done this in your position which is why I answered like I did. But after I read your response I understand that this could be done from a town point of view which is why I answered like I did. Therefore I drop the argument because it's a weak one. You are however avoiding ALL my other arguments, and you instead choose to pick on the one even myself consider to be weak one. On June 14 2012 05:28 Vivax wrote: There are cases promising a ton of information, and while you try to blend in on each of these cases, your main objective remains to tunnel me, throughout a ton of pages. You're incredibly narrowsighted or you seek to spread as much distrust against me as possible. Yes, my main objective is to kill scum. I see no problem in tunneling to succed here. On June 14 2012 05:28 Vivax wrote: Oh and btw. Grush is about to get lynched. If I don't switch vote now, I risk a no lynch and you'll throw that at me. If I switch vote now, you'll say I bandwagoned. Know what?Why should I risk a no lynch?I really don't care about what you have to say after all your slips, but you can try and keep tunneling. You better hope you're not the next scum to hang, cause I think that might be very possible. ##vote grush57 Cool story bro. I'm not sure if your blind but doesn't that mean Kthez is scum? But you want to lynch grsuh? ehh? But the thing is, like always, you put massive uncertainty in this post so you'll just respond with ''I never said you were scum''. On June 13 2012 05:23 KtheZ wrote: My first night rolecheck was Lazermonkey. After the results of the first day lynch I decided to check one of the people who voted for Zen_Man,and Lazermonkey was a solid choice. The results turned up: Lazermonkey can be confirmed townie. Grush is obviously scum, and his behavior in both accusing me and his nonsensical roleclaim are all meant to apply extreme pressure onto me. Grush is in his death throes, and is trying to pull as much information for scum as he can. Thus the fake roleclaim, which forces me out to contest this and reveal myself. He took s0Lstice's post against me and then killed s0Lstice, which makes it very easy for him to push a lynch on me. If you look at grush's filter, his posts have been very anti-town and full of OMGUS. From the beginning he has never contributed anything useful to the town. I was trying to steer the town lynch in the direction I felt was right, without painting myself as a symbol for the mafia to hit. Imagine my suprise when I find out we randomly bandwagoned our medic. There goes my only avenue of survival if I claim! On the first day I was unwilling to look too pro-town to the mafia, because I did not want to have any potential as a target. However, the one point I was firm on was my vote on grush, because I genuinely thought he was mafia. Grush's play as town has been unconvincing, and even anti-town. None of his actions make sense, from a townie perspective. I find it funny that I manage to find loads of posts on you that contains clear indications on scumplay You, on the other hand, only find one line which could be considered scumslip. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On June 14 2012 06:01 Vivax wrote: I've quit wasting my time with you lazer. Aside from the personal attacks, I think it's pretty obvious that you're tunneling me hard. A good townie has to keep an overview of all players in the cases he decides to pursue, and that's not what you're doing. On the other hand it allows you to claim you're being consistent in your play if your target flips town. Just try to pull that card. You are excessively afraid to make other cases. Instead you post high content low information ones (wall of text ugh). You even admit that you made a weak point. Make good cases or don't make them at all. There is much better information out there you plainly ignore. LOLOLOLOL. This is ad hominem which was discussed on D1.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). Yes, I am tunneling you atm. I even said that in my last post so you don't need to say it aswell. Can you give examples of these high content low info posts? Also, yes my point was weak. I said it because your response here was good. I'm not going to push you for something I don't think look suspicious. Doesn't this make sense? You point out one single thing in my whole case(which I even admitt) and therefore you say it's invalid. But you skip all the 1000 points which aren't. The logic here is questionable... I kinda want to go to bed. Someone want to swap votes onto Vivax? | ||
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On June 14 2012 06:07 Vivax wrote: And no, tunneling is not hunting scum. Tunneling is being stubborn as hell and blind to alternatives, constantly only pushing one player. Heist did that to me last game and left me unable to post cases cause I was busy defending attacks. And like in this game, other townies just didn't care. I hope they will during day 3. I don't care. really, I don't. Please answer my questions. The reason I'm tunneling you is because your answers are crap. Also I don't care about Heist. I care about you. Stop avoiding the questions. | ||
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On June 15 2012 03:34 Release wrote: Lazer, i'd like to hear what you say, since from what i can see, you are town no matter what Will be posting lots of shit just before deadline. Just you wait : ) | ||
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Everyone, I am the detective! So my first check was on Vivax. Release seemed to think that a check on anyone other than grush or ha236 was a bad check. I don't agree with this at all. First off, this is a noob game and their play could be explained by them being inexperienced. Or rather grush, because I never really had a scum read on Ha236 anyway. Also, in case that were to show town I would either need to claim in order to save one of the weaker townies which means no more checks for me or I had to defend them while they were acting suspicious without me claiming. I would either risk a lynch of them anyway or even a lynch on myself for defending a suspicious person and swaping my read super hard(said I was willing to lynch grush D1, Wants to stop the lynch on him D2...) My reason Vivax for this was because of his play. He didn't apear clearly scummy with his ''nice'' posts. But still, his unwillingness to take a stance anywhere. This wasn't his first game so he should know the basics of town play. I didn't find anything that pointed in that direction.Vivax showed as scum! Regarding the second scum, I am 99,9% sure this is Kthez. He have faked a DT claim at this point. I'm not even sure you need any more evidence than this. He even claimed me to be town. What townie would do such a thing? My guess is that Kthez was feeling the hard pressure against him and when he saw grush claim DT, he took the opportunity as he felt most people would rather belive him than grush in a 1vs1. This would lead into a 2-1 where Vivax could've gotten lots of town cred by bussing him. If Kthez is a townie, he is the worst one ever. Btw, I decided to check Kthez this night. I don't have a way to 100% confirm myself as detective so you will not know if my claim here is true or not. But you can be sure that either me or Vivax is scum here. I will not really push the case vs Vivax here either. In case I die tonight, you will all know I spoke the truth. If I survive, I will be able to push the case against him for 48 hours. I recomend you guys to take a very close look at their filters as well as mine and try to think you is the most likely scum at this point. Essentially if I survive the night, D3 will come down to a lynch on me vs a lynch on Vivax/Kthez. If I die, it's insta GG, town wins! When writing this, I feel I probebly could've posted this way earlier. My head was just sooo full of fuck with two guys claiming DT when it was obvious not only that both of them were lying but also that one of them HAD to be town. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
My thoughts on this game. D1: So grush is under heavy fire. I didn't understand the way he played at all but I wasn't to convinvced that he scum. He didn't play town but his play didn't make any sense out of scum perspective either... Ha is the next one to be grilled. While I didn't like the way he played he simply seemed noob-town to me. I was quite sure he was town at this point. I'm the first one to pick up the case on Zen_Man, I don't regret this really. His play were the most scummy out of all players in the game at that time. Sad that he flipped medic but quite ironic that both of the games blues were accusing each other of being scum. N1: So my thought procces were something like this: s0lstice looked town, Release looked kinda town and I didn't really want to waste a check on him. Ha I was kinda convinced that he was town aswell despite his play but even then I was considering checking him. However, I felt that the high chance of him being lynched the next day would make it a weaker check. Same thing with grush. So was left with ShiaoPi, Vivax and Kthez. Vivax and Shiaopi were very passive the first day. Both of them were avoiding to take any clear stances. Kthez was at this point posting more of substance but I felt every time he posted, I didn't make alot of sence. He also scumslipped quite alot. In the end I kinda flipped a coin to decide which of theese three I would check : ). D2: My original plan was to push Vivax without claiming. However, then the thread blew up with 2 people claiming DT. You guys can't even realise the amount of mindfuck that were going on in my head here. I probebly should've claimed right when grush backed off. I kinda wanted to see what grush would flip as I wasn't sure whether grush or Kthez were scum at this point. My case on Vivax was somewhat Ignored. Alot of you guys seemed to think it was weak, why? : (. It's obviously a bit trickier to write a case when I knew that he was 100% scum. Still, I think his answers wasn't really good at all. My plan was to claim in the following night, so I tried my best not to look like the DT but also to piss Vivax off. If I was shoot N2 I figured it should be GG. N2: Not much to say. I am now 99,9% sure Kthez is scum. I just need to let everyone else know. fortunately I was shot : ). Onto the players The_zen_Man: Sorry for gettingt you lynched bro : ). Still your play was strange and you were far from dead untill the last 30 minutes where you posted some really strange no content posts on how yous hould lynch me when you flip. Post more next time and you should be fine. Also, try to post more of your own stuff. s0lstice: You were probebly the best towni e in the game. You were the first one to push Kthez I think nad you were also the first one to put any critique at Vivax. I guess that's why you got shot : ). grush57: Strange play overall. The DT claim didn't make any sense what so ever but on the other hand it was what won us the game Release: You were really active which was very good in an otherwise quite lazy game. Your reads weren't super tho, and you keept going after people that were bad townies instead of scum. I know that is a fine line but you should probebly analyze peopple motives more next time. Ha236: Your play was strange aswell. You need to give more reads next time you play. Also remember that a player pushing you as town isn't necessarily a scum. Shaiopi: You play on D1 wasn't really good imo. You were quite passive. On D2 I think you improved tho. You gave good opinions and looked at peoples motives etc. Vivax: Sorry for the agressive tone against you : ). I really wanted you guys to kill me tho, so I somewhat succeded : P. I can only really comment on your play D1 as that's what made me check you. You never took a stance except for Zen_Man and he was a really easy target. I don't have problems with summaries but you avoided taking stances while only doing summaries. This is kinda scummy. Kthez: You took a risk, and if grush would've been the DT(which he should've been, VTs should claim like that) then it might just have won you guys the game. Your D1 play was a bit scummy to me but D2 was better. You were just unlucky that grush played next level mindgames with you : P. Also thanks to wherebugsgo for Pro coaching! : ) | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Overall Town Despite mudslinging early on between Release and Grush, there was a lot of activity throughout the game. People bemoaned lurking, but remember this is a 9 player game. I thought the activity was enough to have substance without being spammy. The biggest problem was not re-reading closely, especially s0Lstice's reads. You have to think; WHY would they shoot s0Lstice over Release? Release was pushing ha and grush a lot, while s0Lstice was leaning against KtheZ a lot. Take that into account. Also, if you're blue remember it's important to try and act as green as possible; if you act scared, it makes you more obvious to scum, and suspicious to your comrades. Clutch blue play from Lazermonkey sealed the deal; town deserved this win overall. Even without the weird claim from grush, town was in a good position to win it as long as Release refocused his thoughts. Don't you think it's WIFOM to discuss why people were killed? Let's say they instead killed Release N1 then we could have argued that grush/ha would be scum because of that. At the same time Kthez would look even more clean because why would scum let anyone who are pushing their case live. | ||
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