EPTiGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 10 2012 08:23 Radfield wrote: Hizzah! No setup to talk about! No roles to direct! Nothing but cold hard calculation...! No medic and no ability to confirm townies means that every player needs to actually play, and establish themselves. No spamming, no coasting, etc. Given that, lets lynch into the players who are most difficult to find and the players with the best scum play. In this case that's ace and.... uhmmm.... well, just Ace I suppose  Seems like a good policy to me! Ohohoohoho, yes! It's funny because Ace was one who make policy lynch thread, ohohohoho! Is funny! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 10 2012 09:10 chaoser wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/14xfjew.png) Let's go yo. ##vote: Ace Haha, was that your first try, or do you just want to kill Ace? I know someone you might like to get to know better, I think you share similar interests. Radfield meet Chaoser. Chaoser meet Radfield. It's a perfect match! | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 10 2012 09:36 chaoser wrote: Nah, Radfield doesn't want to RNG; he thinks it has no benefit. So I'm not a perfect match with him. Ace does want to RNG though so I'm possibly a perfect match with him. Or at least a better match than with Radfield. It just so happened that the RNG picked my perfect match. =[. What's done is done yo. No, I meant because you both want to lynch Ace. :p Unless you love Ace as well, and then maybe Rad is just jealous, and is trying to kill Ace to steal you away from him. Isn't the idea behind RNG that we have nothing to talk about, so it provides a talking point, and that it makes mafia sweat, because they have no control over it, so if you decide to lynch a scum they'll freak out and the reaction will be enough to lynch them anyways? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Now, onto the game. In response to gonzaw, I made that post to take a stab at what I thought the benefits of RNG were. However, I wasn't sure if I was correct in my assumptions, and that's why I phrased it as a question. I didn't want to ascribe the merits of RNG and then argue against them myself, so I was waiting for a reply. Unfortunately, none of the RNG supporters have actually bothered say what they think the merits of it are. Personally, I'm against actually following through with an RNG lynch, except in a few situations. I think RNGing a target and then discussing them could be a decent way to start discussion, and get people to either defend or attack a player and take a stance, but that needs to be done at the beginning of the day, and we didn't do that. However, I don't think we should just lynch that person unless there is an adequate argument as to why we should. So, in that case the RNG serves as a way to start us talking about players instead of policy or game mechanics, and then we find the lynch target from there. The only time I'd actually follow through an RNG lynch is if the entirety of Day 1 was so devoid of discussion analysis was impossible, but I rarely see that happen, and it doesn't seem to be happening in this game. So, I do not support actually lynching an RNG'ed target in this game. I actually want Chaoser to answer my question from earlier, since he sort of side-stepped it: On June 10 2012 09:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Haha, was that your first try, or do you just want to kill Ace? I know someone you might like to get to know better, I think you share similar interests. Radfield meet Chaoser. Chaoser meet Radfield. It's a perfect match! There's no assurance you actually RNG'ed that, so I'm wondering why you want to kill Ace. Do you actually support an Ace lynch? Your next post looks weird too, asking if Ace is backing off RNG when he said you're jumping the gun and that your RNG isn't valid. False pressure, and all that. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I can't really comment that much on the lynch, because I wasn't around to interact with it, but I get why people wanted to lynch MZ, and he martyred himself, which wouldn't help his case. Looking at how the votes fell, there's a few people who just single voted for someone who wasn't Palmar/MZ. This includes Gonzaw, hesmyrr, and chaoser. Going through filters: chaoser, you said in this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 02:16 chaoser wrote: I'm ok with either a MZ lynch or a BB/wiggles lynch. This is an invite only game that was very exclusive from what I can tell from pre-game and so for people to be as inactive as BB or wiggles are is very disappointing. But even then, lynch wise it would be greymist>>>MZ>>>>>>>>>>BB/Wiggles You'd like an MZ lynch in preference after grey. However, you don't comment at all on how you think MZ is scummy. You also don't switch your vote to consolidate at all onto MZ, even when the lynch came down to being in between MZ and palmar, with you writing this: + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 05:54 chaoser wrote: I don't think palmar is trolling, if that helps. I think palmar is playing a pretty good game actually (not trying to buddy), I think you're misrepresenting his actions BB. So, if you had a town-read on Palmar (which is what I'm getting from "palmar is playing a pretty good game actually"), why didn't you switch your vote onto MZ, who you said you were ok with lynching, and to prevent the lynch of palmar? What gives? Hesmyrr only mentions the MZ/Palmar lynch here: + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 07:07 Hesmyrr wrote: I was actually waiting for you to post the analysis regarding VE, since I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet. Currently I find MZ lynch to be better than that of Palmar but I am not going to get stuck on black-white thinking; the fact that GreYMisT+VE have voted him is cause for concern which is why I am reserving my judgment until the last moment. Personally the interactions happened between VisceraEyes and you are making me extremely wary. He says he likes the MZ lynch better than a Palmar one, but that's it, and doesn't commit to it with a vote. This was 53 minutes before the deadline, but the vote counts were all low, so I'm hesitant to call him out on not switching to a target more likely to be lynched. I'm keeping an eye on him. Gonzaw said he doesn't like the MZ lynch, but there's no mention of Palmar one way or the other. So, he didn't say he likes one of the candidates and then didn't vote for them like the other two, he just stuck to his candidate he put forward. He looks the best out of the three after the lynch. By the way, Gonzaw, what do you think of Palmar? Personally, I think Palmar is being Palmar right now (or at least acting like it). He's been changing his scum meta recently from being just useless from Day 1 on to trying to act like himself for a while. I'm leaning slightly towards town now, but if he starts not pushing any cases or doing anything useful, it means he's scum. On June 12 2012 09:10 gonzaw wrote: Another question: Does any of you have an idea who the SK might be? And is there any subtle difference in scum behaviour and SK behaviour? (without taking interactions with scumbuddies into account) I'd say that an SK is going to be active enough to not get lynched, but not so active that he will be shot early on. So, basically someone who's running middle of the road. It depends a bit on the player though. Obviously, someone like Radfield couldn't play the SK the same way as me or you, or someone else who people aren't expecting to be one of the central figures of town in the mid-game. But, for most of the players, it should go how I said. They'll contribute enough to not look scummy, and then they'll keep a low enough profile to not get shot. This will go on until the player numbers go down, and then they'll probably try to become a stronger force in the game. Also, something people seem to be missing, or at least glossing over, is that if scum shoot the SK, they don't need to out themselves to lynch necessarily. They can just make an analysis of that player calling them scum, or wait a day and make one calling them the SK. There's nothing stopping them from just trying to lynch the SK normally, and as soon as a town player does it, calling someone out as an SK isn't suspicious. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:53 gonzaw wrote: First of all..can someone tell me why the lynch was on "either MZ or Palmar"? Both Palmar and Grey had 2 votes (before I voted BB) if I recall correctly, and MZ only had like 3 votes at a time (which is not a "oh oh he's definitely the lynch today" amount) @Wiggles: I was suspicious of Palmar initially because of him trying to shift attention towards MZ when I presented my Grey case. However after seeing him play I see he's playing with confidence and arrogance. I know he can play pretty good as scum, like in Liar Game, so I'm not crossing him as town yet, but I don't think lynching him right now (or yesterday) is a good idea. Wiggles you have a lot to contribute since you've been missing, specially about the cases on Grey, VE and Radfield that were posted last day I said it was between Palmar and MZ because it looked like it ended up as 4-3, and then everyone else having only 1 vote on them. I read through pretty quickly, so I might not have paid enough attention to how the vote developed. I just saw three people single-voted and went through their filters to see what I thought and look for people avoiding being responsible for the lynch or not. I have a bunch of stuff to catch up on, so would you mind linking me to the specific cases? I know you made the greymist one, and hesmyrr made the VE one, who started the one on VE again? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 12 2012 11:06 gonzaw wrote: You answered your own question. Sorry I'm too lazy right now to reread the thread looking for them. But chaoser and I posted about Greymist Hesmyrr posted about VE VE and MZ posted about Radfield Just check their filters (and of course read the thread in it's completion) I don't really like the Chaoser case against GreY. I also agree with him that your reasoning for voting GreY isn't very strong, even if I disagree with him on his own case. I think it was early to pull out the "Never made any analysis" card. I explain why I don't like Chaoser's case later when I talk about why he's scum. Next, I don't agree completely with Hesmyrr's case on VE. I don't see a logical disconnect between the two posts in the second paragraph. In the first, VE says that he's afraid of trusting how we decide the RNG lynch. This implies he's afraid of someone manipulating the results or something similar. Next, he says he like Palmar's plan. There's no disconnect, because Palmar's plan is essentially random, and isn't decided by one person, as it would be verified by multiple people. So, it's something that's not open to manipulation. Therefore, the change in stance makes sense. The part I do agree on with Hesmyrr is that pushing the RNG talk to continue doesn't look that great. However, I don't think that's enough to call VE scum on. I'll respond to the Rad case later. On June 12 2012 18:43 Radfield wrote: Wiggles, that's all well and good, but those posts are startlingly neutral. Who would you have voted for yesterday. Who do you think is playing scummy. Between MZ and Palmar, I would have truthfully voted for MZ. Out of other people, I would have voted Chaoser. The reasons for this are that he's done about three things that make him look off to me. First, he did that weird thing with the RNG. I have no idea how that was supposed to work though, because RNG doesn't work with just someone posting a number and saying that's who we're lynching. But, after not enough people supported him, and I called him out on it, he says that it was for pressure and to see how Ace reacted. That sounds silly though, because the pressure would always be weak, and Ace didn't back off RNG but Chaoser still pushed him for it. Like I said, false pressure. Second, I don't understand his initial case on Grey at all. I don't know what he means by "you show no suspicion to the usage of terms", but I guess he's saying that he's not suspicious of different names and that makes him scummy? But this is an iGrok game. I lost Sleeper Cell I because I lynched a guy for having a green bolded name when no one else did. I learned my lesson, and I know iGrok has done similar things in lots of his games since then with regards to flavour and role name, because flavour hunting is just stupid. So, it makes sense for GreY not to necessarily question that they have different names, which makes Chaoser's accusation weird and off-base. Then he calls out GreY for wanting to lynch me and not MZ. The thing is though, there's nothing stopping GreY from thinking I made a bad post even if MZ made a worse post, so that's not really a valid for saying he's scum. Just because something is worse than something else doesn't mean that other thing can't still be bad (On a side note, I don't think my post was bad, this is from GreY's PoV :p). So again, I don't like Chaoser's reasoning for voting GreY. Third, Chaoser didn't change his vote from GreY to MZ. There wasn't enough support for the GreY lynch it seemed, and the votes between Palmar and MZ were very close. Chaoser said he'd prefer an MZ lynch after a GreY lynch, and that he thought Palmar was playing well. However, he never ended up changing his vote to ensure someone he thought was scummy would get lynched instead of someone he thought was playing well. That stinks. So, these three things together lead me to think Chaoser is scum. It's a lot of little things that I find off or pushing from an insincere direction that add up to that conclusion. On June 12 2012 19:17 Radfield wrote: He can't shoot you because if he did that would make him scum There's the Ace we know and love. You can't shoot me though, I'm bulletproof. I like how when you are scum you find something someone has done and then just spin it as scummy like crazy. Look for an entire body of evidence.. nahh. I assume what your insinuating is that me and Palmar are scumbuddies, or that I wanted to save him for some sort of underhanded reasoning. I can assure you that if I was scum and Palmar town, I would push any lynch on him I possibly could. Palmar, like no other player on this site, correctly ID's me by Night 1 pretty much every game we have ever played. Certainly he busted me in LOTR and Arkham 2, and was on my case in Closed Casket. No way I would save him, especially when I had already given myself plenty of reason to not vote Meapak.  Then again, if you're bullet-proof that makes you the SK too. Hey, this scum-hunting thing is pretty easy! | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:55 gonzaw wrote: Hmm...I'm leaning on BrownBear-Wiggles-Radfield 2 scum-SK team for now. I don't like that post of yours Wiggles, I dunno...seems your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum are kind of weak. But well, if I'm still alive on D2 I'll reanalyze the thread, hey! Maybe you are right about chaoser who knows? What about them are weak? If you'd like me to explain in more detail or go over something in a different way I can. Just saying they're weak doesn't really help me if you don't think he's scum or the case is bad. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:40 gonzaw wrote: You didn't actually respond to this point. The point is that he makes a fake RNG on Ace. Ace calls him out for making a fake RNG. Then Chaoser tries to turn it around that Ace is backing off his original plan of having an RNG lynch. It has nothing to do with whether RNG is bad or good, or whatever. It has to do with how Chaoser dealt with it. This is inherently weak because it relates to the RNG bits from earlier on. chaoser could have easily done that as town or scum. It's like if someone said we should lynch lurkers near the beginning of the day. Then person #2 comes in three hours later and says that the person who made that post has only made three posts in total, so we should lynch them for lurking. Then the original person comes back and says that they hadn't even defined what constituted lurking so the vote is silly. Then person #2 responds by claiming that the original poster is backing off of his policy lynch of killing lurkers now that he's been put under pressure, and thus implying he's scummy for it. The reasoning is fallacious, and it parallels what Chaoser did with the RNG lynch. He just made a number. Ace said we hadn't even talked about how we would determine the random number. Chaoser calls him out and implies he's scummy because he's backing off of his policy, when Ace didn't do anything near that. The logic isn't right, and the pressure is non-existent because of that. That's why I don't like Chaoser's response to my question, and think it makes him look scummy. This seems weak as well. You find chaoser suspicious because he found Grey's reaction to my "joke" suspicious, only based on a game you (but not chaoser) played (and he would have no way to know that). GreY mentions this himself while talking to chaoser, but chaoser never concedes the point: + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 09:33 GreYMisT wrote: Im not suspicious because me and iGrok have hosted together multiple times. I know not to put stock in Role PMs being different as he changes them on purpose, or gives them different names, he also puts sample Role PMs in the OP. so yea, I don't put stock in Vanilla townie being too different from Vanilla towny He ignores it, even though that was the reason mentioned for why he initially voted for GreY. If he had made some sort of post taking it back, or revoking what he had said, I'd feel better, but he doesn't. He just lets it stand even though it's a silly reason for thinking GreY is scum. Also, to counter what you said, this is becoming a pretty frequent practice in games with lots of flavour to help deter people from trying to confirm with role PMs while not just mass modkilling them. For a counter-example, chaoser played in responsibility mafia that had two vigs outed on Day 1 because one claimed and the other counter-claimed because their role names were different and we ended up losing one to a mislynch on Day 1 and the other that Night. So, he has played in a game like that, and it's still a terrible reason to vote someone. This is the main thrust of Chaoser's case against GreY. The logic is again silly. He's saying that GreY is scum because he called me out for what he saw as a bad post but didn't call out MZ at the same time for what Chaoser believes is a worst post. That's one of the worst reasons for calling someone scum I've seen. It's like calling someone scum if they make a case on someone and ask someone who made another case to explain it again, and you think that second person's scummier. Just because GreY called me out and not MZ isn't a good enough reason to say he's scum, and it's a weird reason at that. It looks like Chaoser's just trying to make stuff up to support his initial accusation. Well..MZ did flip town. chaoser not voting someone that flipped town would be better considering the circumstances. I do find that a little bit odd, but he said he prefered a Grey lynch rather than a MZ one, and I was voting Grey at that time as well (while MZ only had like 3 votes on him), so at that time him keeping his vote on Grey isn't alignment telling. Yes, him not changing his vote to MZ later seems weird, because he said MZ was his 2nd lynch. But all in all your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum seem weak to me. What about his interactions with other players? What about his behaviour and aggressiveness? Do you think he's scum because of them as well? But meh. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
##Vote: Chaoser | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:11 chaoser wrote: How do I generally start off games? I post "Blank is mafia, let's lynch him". This worked well for me for a while after that game I fakeclaimed DT but now it no longer works. When radfield jokingly suggested RNG and then Ace backed it up I figured it was a good way to pressure. I think palmar explained it really well and is kind of what I was going for in my post about why I started off talking about RNG but didn't really get across at all with my "it provides an amazing amount of pressure" Palmar's: Notice the part where he talks about settling it early, which is why I asked palmar to do RNG before the first 24 hours was up. I couldn't explain in thread at all as palmar points out so that's why I told radfield: The VE/gonzaw vanilla towny/vanilla townie was actually just an over reaction on my part and once I realized no one else was bothered by it, I knew it was a false reading on my part. When I first saw VE claim vanilla townie and then gonzaw counterclaim it as vanilla towny, I though I had caught them on something huge since I was taking both their posts seriously. The OP allows for me to post my PM so I'll do it to explain: Vanilla towny/townie/anything like that is never mentioned in the PM and so I was like wtf...did VE mess up and gonzaw caught him on it or did VE bait with it and then gonzaw got caught and was very confused. I don't remember right now but after a few minutes of thinking, I ended up reasoning out that the most suspicious person in that interaction was not VE or gonzaw but greymist because he hadn't responded the way I did, which was to do a double take upon seeing the VE/gonzaw interaction since Vanilla townie is never mentioned in our PMs as townies. I figured any townie would immediately be like wtf... That's why I immediately asked people what they thought of the usage of the words. Once I realized no one else really reacted the same way I did, I knew it probably didn't mean much. However I had already found greymist's posts to be suspicious at that point already because it looked like he was picking and choosing who he wanted to point fingers at while ignoring others who were guilty of the same things he was pointing out in the people he wanted to point out at. And at the same time his case on Ace came up and it was ridiculously scummy, I mean, how can anyone think it's not, especially if he said he was suspicious of wiggles and then all of a sudden moves on to Ace while wiggles was also guilty of not posting much content at all? Then I had to go out for dinner with a friend for his birthday and basically till now hadn't even looked in the thread. That's why I didn't change my vote. I think I've answered all your questions, please point out more if I haven't Ok, so this explains the points I didn't like. To make it clear though, you're saying you were planning on changing your vote to MZ but were out? Next, while this provides explanation that could say why you did what you did, all you've done in this post is defend yourself. Who do you think is scum? Who do you want to lynch? If you want me to move my vote off of you, I want to see what your own opinion on things is. Right now, my only misgiving about Radfield is that he asks a lot of questions but doesn't interact with other people. For example, he asks me: On June 12 2012 18:43 Radfield wrote: And I make a reply, and then he just ignores it. He doesn't engage with me after asking me for my reads, and this is the same for a lot of his questions. Besides that though, I'm not sure if I see the case on him. I went back and read through his filter, and not much stuck out as scummy besides that. Also something funny:Wiggles, that's all well and good, but those posts are startlingly neutral. Who would you have voted for yesterday. Who do you think is playing scummy. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2012 09:27 Radfield wrote: I sense meta will play a strong role in this game. I vote we lynch the first player to use the term 'scumslip' inappropriately. :p Obviously this is damning evidence and Radfield should lynch himself. If I change my read on chaoser, or need to vote to get him lynched, I'll switch onto Hesmyrr. I like the case on him, and what BB added. His Day 1 vote made me a little suspicious, but I wasn't ready to call him out completely on it, as well, I didn't like his case on VE very much. It had a couple points that were OK, but a big part of it seemed like it was just completely ignoring the content of VE's posts in favour of calling him scum for them. I want to see what he has to say in defense as well. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 14 2012 04:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Wiggles what do you think of gonzaw sir? Palmar is hellbent on his destruction, which concerns me. Clearly you don't agree with his vote, so what do you think of the event if it's not worth commenting on or even mentioning? I think Gonzaw is town. If Palmar wants to lynch him, it doesn't look like he's doing a very good job. He's the only vote on him, and he hasn't produced anything resembling a case. He's made a post defending rad, but hasn't produced anything similar with reasons for why Gonzaw is scum. So, right now it's just baseless and there's nothing to comment about. If Palmar comes in with a case, I'll read that and respond to it. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 14 2012 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote: So you don't have any comment on the action itself? Trying to get someone lynched...by doing nothing? I mean, we can assume it's some sort of ploy or ruse or whatever to gauge his reaction...but we just don't know do we? The only thing I see even close to reasoning in Palmar's filter regarding gonzaw was a slightly leading question asking about Rad and Grey and him being butthurt about being accused of not playing. Why is this not something worth commenting on Wiggles? It wasn't worth commenting on because it wasn't completed. When Palmar does stuff, sometimes it's for different purposes than it just appears to be on the surface. When he makes that post on Gonzaw, I have no clue if he actually thinks Gonzaw is scum, or he just wants to pressure him for a reaction, or he wants to see if someone else reacts, or whatever. Like I said, it didn't give me any reason to vote gonzaw and goes against my own read. Besides that, it's palmar doing palmar stuff. I normally ignore that stuff until I think he's scum for it, or it becomes something actual i.e. people actually voting, an actual analysis, a follow-up post, etc. I'm switching my vote to Hesmyrr. No one is commenting on my chaoser case besides gonzaw, and chaoser himself has disappeared. I don't like that any pressure on him is gone because he just went inactive for a day cycle. We should lynch him Day 3. Hesmyrr is my second candidate after chaoser, so my vote is going there. I don't feel like his defense or follow up post really did anything to sway my mind about my read. Oh how I wish we had vigs... If the SK wants to be nice, he should shoot chaoser tonight. You'll hit scum, which will be good for you. ##Unvote: Chaoser ##Vote: Hesmyrr | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 15 2012 07:40 gonzaw wrote: chaoser seems to be legitimately inactive I think. I don't think he'd purposefully lurk like this as scum, considering that he hasn't been lurking at all on D1/N1 either. If he doesn't show up he'll get modkilled as well, so he HAS to show up if he was indeed lurking as scum, and he'd get insane pressure on top of him after doing so. It still bothers me that he isn't here, specially when half the players in this game disappear as well. @Wiggles: What in particular makes Hesmyrr your 2nd preferable lynch than, say, Radfield or someone else? You only mentioned him not committing his stance on D1 with a vote and you not liking his case on VE. What else? I mentioned the stance on Day 1, and his case on VE as my own reasons. That he doesn't commit to what he said with a vote shows that he wanted to distance himself somewhat from the lynch, and the VE case doesn't follow logically from what VE posted. It just looks like he decided to make a case on VE and needed reasons to call him scummy; it's grasping. I also agree with what you and BB wrote about the wishy-washiness and wanting to just sort of blend in. I also like when it was pointed out that Hesmyrr just sort of pops up whenever he's being talked about. That's pretty much the definition of active lurking, and is also a strike against him. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 15 2012 19:29 Radfield wrote: I also think we need to set aside Chaoser from our lynch options right now. There is simply not enough information to base a case one way or the other. It's very possible he is scum, but if he isn't that leaves mafia a complete freebee, which we cannot afford to do. This is wrong. There's definitely enough information on Chaoser to make a case. I don't understand what you're trying to get across here. He posted actively on Day 1, and that should be enough information to make a judgement call one way or the other. I don't like this cop-out. Unless prplhz comes in tomorrow playing as the towniest town who ever towned, he should hang. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 16 2012 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote: He concurs as far as I can see Wiggles. Care to give your thoughts on everyone but chaoser Wiggles? As far as I can see, if you're town you're a #1 priority night-hit since Rad/Palmar are aligning against each other...I'd really like you to comment on everyone in case you die. I don't really want to post a list of reads, so I'm going to tell you who I think are scum. Right now, I think Chaoser/prplhz is scum based on his play. I don't care if he went inactive, and prplhz's posting hasn't exactly inspired me to think he's town yet. I'm not sure exactly who his team mate is, and would rather just lynch him first than divide my pressure across multiple people. That said, he comes out of the pool of Palmar/Rad/BB, as I feel good about you and Gonzaw right now. After Chaoser flips red, I'd go through those and figure out which one is scum with him. As for GreYMist, he's actually fitting how I think the SK would be acting right now. He's not pushing people enough to really warrant a scum shot, and he's not scummy enough to be the top lynch. Overall, his posting has felt rather forgettable. That's my feeling from a cursory read through, but I'd rather go after mafia than SK hunt right now, because that's going to be somewhat harder to actually make a case about and then convince people. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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He's been changing his scum meta recently from being just useless from Day 1 on to trying to act like himself for a while. I'm leaning slightly towards town now, but if he starts not pushing any cases or doing anything useful, it means he's scum. Palmar's very transparent when he's town, and because he's good at asserting he's town, he can get people to follow him very quickly and that helps him lynch scum. However, that also works against him when he's scum because sure he can mimic how he acts normally, but he doesn't appear sincere or just doesn't hunt/kill scum. Right now Palmar has done absolutely nothing in the game, so that makes him very likely to be scum, because it isn't like he's just been inactive all game or something that would give him an excuse. Instead, he's been around but has been willfully not contributing or hunting scum. I was willing to give him a chance on Day 2 with the gonzaw thing to see if it was some kind of ploy, but he hasn't improved substantially since then. So, GreY, my answer is prplhz, followed by Palmar. After we kill those two, we can go SK hunting. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 17 2012 05:53 gonzaw wrote: Well this is boring. Wiggles, what makes you feel better about BB than you did? I included BB in the list of three names through the process of elimination and because I just hadn't read him very closely. After going through his filter, I don't feel like he's mafia. He's been pretty open and direct about what he's thinking and who his scum reads are, which makes me feel good. He's also making sense and not misdirecting. Overall, I don't get many scum-vibes from him compared to Palmar, and I don't feel weird about him like Rad either. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 17 2012 06:22 gonzaw wrote: So your "scum+SK" list would be something like this then?: Scum: Palmar prplhz SK: Radfield My list for now would be like this: Scum: Palmar BrownBear SK: prplhz I'd go more into detail why I get the feeling BB is scum, but I want to lynch Palmar first and not distract town. Yeah, the SK I feel is one of Rad or GreY. How strongly do you feel prplhz is the SK though? I feel very strongly that he's mafia, but if you think he's the SK as well, it might be good to lynch him. The SK hasn't shot yet, so that means that there's two options to limit the KP against us. I'm going to do a little analysis of how we should lynch. The first option is to lynch both mafia consecutively today and tomorrow. Then: We kill 1 mafia, 1 mafia left. Mafia shoot tonight, 1 KP. We kill the last mafia, 0 mafia left. Then there's only the SK KP left over. 2 KP total that can hit the town. There's also the chance that scum hit the SK which could help us because it will block a KP. The other option is to lynch the SK today and then both scum. Lynch the SK. Mafia shoot, 1 KP. Lynch a mafia Mafia shoot, 1 KP. Lynch the last mafia, win. Both of these rely on being fairly certain of who the two scum are. For example, if we did something like lynch a mafia today, and then the SK tomorrow, we would lose. Right now it's 4-2-1. If we lynch scum today, but both SK and mafia hit town, then: 4-1-1 2-1-1 Then we need to lynch mafia to remove their kp: 2-0-1 Then lynch the SK. 2-0-0 If we hit SK instead of mafia: 2-1-0 1-1-0 after hits. If SK hits mafia after a mafia lynch: 3-0-1 Which puts us in a good position 4-0-1 if the mafia also hit the SK If mafia hit the SK after a mafia lynch, SK hits town: 2-1-1 or 2-0-1 In the first case, we need to hit the mafia to get rid of his KP, case 2 is LYLO. So, if we lynch mafia today, we must hit the other mafia tomorrow if the SK shoots town. So, we have to be sure of and agree on, who the second mafia is in the majority of cases, as lynching the SK could result in a loss. Now, if instead we hit the SK today, it will go: 4-2-0 3-2-0 after hits 3-1-0 lynch 1 mafia 2-1-0 next round of hits 2-0-0 lynch the second mafia If we hit the SK, we need to do a 1-2 hit on both scum with our lynches. So, lynching prplhz could be the best move today. I think he's mafia, you think he's the SK, but we both agree that he's scum. If we lynch him and he flips mafia, we just lynch Palmar tomorrow, and then hunt for the SK. If he flips SK, we still lynch Palmar, and then we look for the last mafia. Either way though, we don't get into a situation tomorrow where we disagree on who the last mafia is and end up potentially lynching town or the SK and then losing. What do you think? ##Vote: prplhz | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 17 2012 09:50 gonzaw wrote: Right, so we don't lynch obvious scum Palmar to lynch him tomorrow right? Anything can happen by that time, Palmar can come up with a case against someone, then cause more shitstorm, have people doubt their reads on him, and he may even survive. If we all agree to lynch him today I don't see why we shouldn't. Yes, if tonight SK shoots a townie (I don't see this happening either, but lets assume it will happen), we can argue tomorrow about who is scum, prp or BB or someone else. That's what's supposed to happen, we lynch one scum and then argue about who the other one is, but if the SK doesn't shoot tonight (most likely), then we could still lynch prplhz if we think he's either SK or scum. If prplhz is scum, the real SK won't shoot a townie tonight because he knows that if he does, we'll most likely avoid lynching prplhz tomorrow, while if he doesn't, we'd most likely do, so he'd not shoot a townie tonight, let us lynch prplhz, and then try to win solo. You are making too many assumptions, you just assume the SK will shoot a townie tonight if we lynch Palmar no matter what and be successful.. Like where the fuck does that come from? The SK could even shoot the other scum if he feels like it and try to survive 2 lynches, he could just not shoot, or he could try to shoot a townie but shoot the same one as scum or scum can shoot him or not shoot at all. You say your plan is better because "We lynch Palmar today"->"SK and mafia will shoot different townies, so we'll have a hard time trying to lynch the remaining scum":
You still haven't answered me the question about prplhz's behaviour. I'm home now, but holy crap, I am making NO assumptions about the kills. that's the whole god damned point. Killing prplhz means that it DOESN'T MATTER what happens at night, because it makes no difference. Prplhz is not town, if you think he is town, then make a post defending him because otherwise you're taking out of your ass. I think he's mafia. He's mafia because he/chaoser are pushing the wrong people. They're not hunting for scum, they're hunting for mislynches and easy/bad cases. The SK is just going to float around with town and do enough to not get lynched, but not enough to get shot by scum. I'm astounded that so many people expressed that chaoser/prplhz were mafia, and now with how prplhz is still posting there's only my vote on him. My plan makes it so that it does not matter what happens tonight, because prpl is scum, and I think he's mafia, but even if he's the SK it doesn't make a difference. Palmar is more likely to be mafia than just an SK. So, if we lynch prpl and he flips scum, we just kill Palmar the next day, and we eliminate mafia KP. If he flips SK, there's no more SK KP, and we can lynch Palmar the next day and then find his ally in the next 144 hours. It doesn't matter if there's two lylo's, because I'd rather rely on my own analysis than on having to differentiate between mafia/sk and then having to argue and still potentially losing if we lynch the wrong kind of scum. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Now, why is he the SK you ask? Well, the major point is that he is maintaining a facade of being pro-town while not actually pushing his so-called scum reads. Here's his filter for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=120900 I'm going to focus mostly on his play since Day/Night 1, though what I'm saying applies to then as well. That starts on page 4 of his filter. The big thing looking through the filter from that point, is to ask yourself, "What has GreYMisT done or accomplished?". For example, he says stuff like he's suspicious of one person more than another, and he asks questions of people, but does he actually try to push for lynches? For example, he makes a case on Radfield, and then quickly backs off. The next person he starts to feel out is prplhz. This post shows that he apparently likes a prplhz lynch more than a palmar one: On June 17 2012 03:07 GreYMisT wrote: I think his play this game is highly unusual. I mentioned some things before the flip that I thought weird about him. It is possible that I have misinterpreted your actions regarding VE. Unless I'm mistaken its LyLo, so I have been reconsidering my vote on you quite a bit so I can be as sure as possible. I like your defense, and upon rereading I have decided not to vote you. Understand when I reread you, I was looking for weird behavior surrounding VE and MZ. I found some, but i realize that it would have made far more sense for you to keep pushing VE into day 2, as opposed to acting the way you did. Anyway, You me and Gonzaw appear to be it as far as activity goes. might as well assume we are all town right? (  )joking aside, I again want to be as sure as possible, so lets get a real disscussion going . Would you guys really like to lynch palmar over say Chaoser/prp? I feel atm that he has a higher chance of being mafia. Notice though, how he words the suspicion. He doesn't say, "I think prplhz is more likely to be mafia, so let's lynch him", instead he asks Gonzaw/Radfield if they would like to lynch palmar over prplhz. He's feeling out what the general attitude towards the lynch is. Then again, he's sounding out where the general direction is: On June 17 2012 03:58 GreYMisT wrote: I'd like to hear everyone's 2 people they want to see dead today. I am personally fine with lynching Prp and now Palmar at this point. Notice he doesn't say he wants to lynch prp over Palmar, even though that was his original thought. Now he's just fine with either of them. Then, during my argument with Gonzaw, he doesn't actually take a side, he just writes this: On June 17 2012 08:51 GreYMisT wrote: I agree with wiggles, a plan that requires the SK to shoot scum (when he doesnt know 100% even) is a plan that can go very, very wrong. Implying that he agrees with me somewhat, but notice he doesn't actually push his opinion one way or the other. He doesn't say we should lynch prpl because my plan is correct or things could go wrong with a Palmar lynch, and he doesn't say that he thinks I'm wrong and we should lynch Palmar. This is also surprising, because in a way I gave him an outlet to vote for prplhz, who he said he thought was more likely to be scum than Palmar, but instead he doesn't. In fact, even though he said he thought prplhz was more likely to be mafia than Palmar, his vote never touches prp. After he unvotes rad, he holds it, which fits in with the idea that he's trying to sound out what people are thinking to slide along with the majority. Then, he eventually votes for Palmar after it's clear a prplhz switch isn't happening: On June 18 2012 01:17 GreYMisT wrote: Im going to vote palmar, hopefully there are no objections atm. Something to note, is that he mentions that "hopefully there are no objections atm". Why is he apologetic about his vote? If he thinks Palmar is scum, why does he care if someone objects to his vote? This is also at a point where Palmar was very likely to be lynched considering activity and the complete lack of discussion about lynching prplhz instead from anyone other than myself and gonzaw. So, why is he apologetic? Because he doesn't want to cause waves or step on anyone's toes. + Show Spoiler [Irony] + On June 17 2012 08:42 GreYMisT wrote: Its LyLo, now is not the time to sheep votes you don't believe in. This is just a kicker but pretty funny when compared with GreY saying he likes the prplhz lynch more but then not pushing for it at all. So, overall, GreY's behaviour over the last cycle has been exemplary of a vast majority of his play over this whole game. He is not actually pushing to lynch the people he suspects. Instead, he states a suspicion, and then follows along with how the rest of the town is voting. He doesn't argue for his own opinion, but meekly folds over like a wet noodle when it looks like there's some kind of opposition. Now, you might ask, how does that make him the SK? Well, the answer is rather simple. It's because he's doing a rather good job of blending in. He isn't pushing his suspicions, so mafia won't see him as a threat when compared to players who are actually doing analysis and pushing for scum to be killed. Meanwhile, he's doing a good job of posting "reads", but not actually much reasoning or analysis behind those reads. So, town will be content to let him live, because they'll see him as someone who's posting his thoughts or being open. That way, he's not in danger of being lynched. He's living life in the middle of the road, not dangerous enough for scum to shoot, and not scummy enough for town to lynch as mafia. Add on to this, that GreY himself if posting about how the SK isn't afraid of being shot, so he'll be one of the most pro-town players in the game. He's moving any potential area to look for the SK into the more active and helpful players, and thus away from himself. Mafia already want to shoot there, because those are the most dangerous townies, and now town might want to lynch them as well, because any one of them could be the SK. This also helps by making sure the pool of players most likely to be able to catch GreY are shot by scum and also seen as suspicious so that hopefully they won't have enough power to lynch him. Overall, this all adds up to point to the conclusion that GreY is the SK. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 19 2012 09:11 Radfield wrote: Well played Gonzaw. Very solid effort. Prp, if you are town, you are going to get mislynched and lose the game. I need a solid effort from you in the next 24 hours. If you are not the last scum, who do you think is. Find him and push him. I'm going to be rereading everyone, there's no reason to slack off now folks. Wiggles, I want you to assume Prplhz is town, who is the last scum if that's the case? Greymist, you haven't done much of anything lately. Are you convinced prplhz is the last scum? That question is basically asking, "Who's scummier, me or Brownbear?". I'll read through, but I'll reserve posting judgement for later, because I'm very sure that prplhz is the last mafia. What do you think about my case on GreYMisT? Since no one, including GreY has commented on it, I'll assume it's because it got buried: Ok, I'm sure everyone already knows my stance on chaoshz. If you really want me to pick through what prplhz has been doing since he replaced in even though it's been pretty blatantly scummy, I can. Otherwise, I'd like to present to you the SK, our very own GreYMisT! Now, why is he the SK you ask? Well, the major point is that he is maintaining a facade of being pro-town while not actually pushing his so-called scum reads. Here's his filter for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=120900 I'm going to focus mostly on his play since Day/Night 1, though what I'm saying applies to then as well. That starts on page 4 of his filter. The big thing looking through the filter from that point, is to ask yourself, "What has GreYMisT done or accomplished?". For example, he says stuff like he's suspicious of one person more than another, and he asks questions of people, but does he actually try to push for lynches? For example, he makes a case on Radfield, and then quickly backs off. The next person he starts to feel out is prplhz. This post shows that he apparently likes a prplhz lynch more than a palmar one: On June 17 2012 03:07 GreYMisT wrote: I think his play this game is highly unusual. I mentioned some things before the flip that I thought weird about him. It is possible that I have misinterpreted your actions regarding VE. Unless I'm mistaken its LyLo, so I have been reconsidering my vote on you quite a bit so I can be as sure as possible. I like your defense, and upon rereading I have decided not to vote you. Understand when I reread you, I was looking for weird behavior surrounding VE and MZ. I found some, but i realize that it would have made far more sense for you to keep pushing VE into day 2, as opposed to acting the way you did. Anyway, You me and Gonzaw appear to be it as far as activity goes. might as well assume we are all town right? ( )joking aside, I again want to be as sure as possible, so lets get a real disscussion going . Would you guys really like to lynch palmar over say Chaoser/prp? I feel atm that he has a higher chance of being mafia. Notice though, how he words the suspicion. He doesn't say, "I think prplhz is more likely to be mafia, so let's lynch him", instead he asks Gonzaw/Radfield if they would like to lynch palmar over prplhz. He's feeling out what the general attitude towards the lynch is. Then again, he's sounding out where the general direction is: On June 17 2012 03:58 GreYMisT wrote: I'd like to hear everyone's 2 people they want to see dead today. I am personally fine with lynching Prp and now Palmar at this point. Notice he doesn't say he wants to lynch prp over Palmar, even though that was his original thought. Now he's just fine with either of them. Then, during my argument with Gonzaw, he doesn't actually take a side, he just writes this: On June 17 2012 08:51 GreYMisT wrote: I agree with wiggles, a plan that requires the SK to shoot scum (when he doesnt know 100% even) is a plan that can go very, very wrong. Implying that he agrees with me somewhat, but notice he doesn't actually push his opinion one way or the other. He doesn't say we should lynch prpl because my plan is correct or things could go wrong with a Palmar lynch, and he doesn't say that he thinks I'm wrong and we should lynch Palmar. This is also surprising, because in a way I gave him an outlet to vote for prplhz, who he said he thought was more likely to be scum than Palmar, but instead he doesn't. In fact, even though he said he thought prplhz was more likely to be mafia than Palmar, his vote never touches prp. After he unvotes rad, he holds it, which fits in with the idea that he's trying to sound out what people are thinking to slide along with the majority. Then, he eventually votes for Palmar after it's clear a prplhz switch isn't happening: On June 18 2012 01:17 GreYMisT wrote: Im going to vote palmar, hopefully there are no objections atm. Something to note, is that he mentions that "hopefully there are no objections atm". Why is he apologetic about his vote? If he thinks Palmar is scum, why does he care if someone objects to his vote? This is also at a point where Palmar was very likely to be lynched considering activity and the complete lack of discussion about lynching prplhz instead from anyone other than myself and gonzaw. So, why is he apologetic? Because he doesn't want to cause waves or step on anyone's toes. + Show Spoiler [Irony] + On June 17 2012 08:42 GreYMisT wrote: Its LyLo, now is not the time to sheep votes you don't believe in. This is just a kicker but pretty funny when compared with GreY saying he likes the prplhz lynch more but then not pushing for it at all. So, overall, GreY's behaviour over the last cycle has been exemplary of a vast majority of his play over this whole game. He is not actually pushing to lynch the people he suspects. Instead, he states a suspicion, and then follows along with how the rest of the town is voting. He doesn't argue for his own opinion, but meekly folds over like a wet noodle when it looks like there's some kind of opposition. Now, you might ask, how does that make him the SK? Well, the answer is rather simple. It's because he's doing a rather good job of blending in. He isn't pushing his suspicions, so mafia won't see him as a threat when compared to players who are actually doing analysis and pushing for scum to be killed. Meanwhile, he's doing a good job of posting "reads", but not actually much reasoning or analysis behind those reads. So, town will be content to let him live, because they'll see him as someone who's posting his thoughts or being open. That way, he's not in danger of being lynched. He's living life in the middle of the road, not dangerous enough for scum to shoot, and not scummy enough for town to lynch as mafia. Add on to this, that GreY himself if posting about how the SK isn't afraid of being shot, so he'll be one of the most pro-town players in the game. He's moving any potential area to look for the SK into the more active and helpful players, and thus away from himself. Mafia already want to shoot there, because those are the most dangerous townies, and now town might want to lynch them as well, because any one of them could be the SK. This also helps by making sure the pool of players most likely to be able to catch GreY are shot by scum and also seen as suspicious so that hopefully they won't have enough power to lynch him. Overall, this all adds up to point to the conclusion that GreY is the SK. On June 19 2012 23:52 GreYMisT wrote: Don't you think he is a little scummy for not helping us at all? not to mention the contradictions: And then suddenly! He also keeps bringing up this "i'm scum by default" bit. Well yea, you are never here, and you arnt doing anything, and your filter is full of the above. You are scum by default for just doing that. I was scum by default to gonzaw day 1, but the difference between you and me is I decidided to become helpful, rather than complain and guilt trip the town into not voting me. Helpful, but not town, unfortunately. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 20 2012 06:13 Radfield wrote: I haven't really looked hard at your case on Greymist, because it's way easier to find the last scum first. Do you think Greymist has a chance of flipping scum Wiggles? I guess he could be scum if I'm wrong, but my own read is very much that prplhz is the last mafia, and then GreY is the SK. What's yours? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 21 2012 00:26 Radfield wrote: OK, here's the blitz case on wiggles. Day 1 is obviously a write-off, as he does nothing of consequence, and votes himself. Fairly quickly he gets back after the deadline, and I found his post very odd:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=22#433 He mentions the three players who DIDN'T vote MZ or Palmar, which was very strange. A townie was just lynched, so who cares about the singleton votes. It makes far more sense to focus on the MZ voters. However, if you know that Palmar is mafia, it all of a sudden makes more sense, because the people who didn't vote MZ/Palmar are people who were afraid to weigh in when a scum death was on the line. From a mafia perspective, it makes sense to have those three look scummy(because it looks like they both wanted to save Palmar, yet didn't want to link themselves in the voting lists) It doesn't matter what Palmar and MZ's respective alignments were because those three all still decided to not weigh in on the lynch. Two of them made it pretty clear they would want to vote for MZ, but never followed through with it. That he turned out to be town made it worse, because then it looks like they didn't want to be be linked to his lynch. It looks scummy because they wanted to lynch town but didn't follow through with it. If they're townies, then they would think that the person is scum and vote for them, if they're actually writing their true thoughts in the thread. If they're scum on the other hand, they know MZ will flip town, so they'll avoid actually voting for him so they can't be linked to killing a townie. It looked suspicious to me, so I analyzed it. The entire case he builds on Chaoser+ Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=23#458 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=24#466 is stretched and overstated. Early plays like Chaosers RNG thing can only be taken so far in a case. However it's mostly the tone that gets me, as it seems like Wiggles is trying not to convince us that Chaoser is scum, but rather to convince us that Wiggles is Town. A lot of the paragraphs are spent relating stories and analogies. The second post was in response to gonzaw who dismissed my case with about 5 lines of text, and terrible reasoning. The original case is not long or overdrawn, it's short and to the point. The second post was trying to explain it to Gonzaw because either he didn't understand or I did a bad job communicating what I meant. So, I used analogies and stories to try to show how I saw chaoser acting in different words than his own, or to draw parallels to how he was acting. Personally, I think Palmar is being Palmar right now (or at least acting like it). He's been changing his scum meta recently from being just useless from Day 1 on to trying to act like himself for a while. I'm leaning slightly towards town now, but if he starts not pushing any cases or doing anything useful, it means he's scum. That ended up being the case. I also don't particularly like Wiggles play surrounding his Hesmyrr reasoning. I have no real salient point to make with it, but something seems off. You guys be the judge: How's it scummy? As far as I could tell, prplhz was considered scum by a majority of people. I thought so, you made posts indicating that, Gonzaw said he thought he was the SK, etc. So, the motivation for my posts wasn't to convince people that he was scum, since I thought everyone already agreed about that. The motivation was that I wanted to lynch him first. The best way to show why this was the optimal play was through logic, which unfortunately no one understands or bothered to comment on. It was pretty much agreed that Palmar was mafia. Meanwhile, I though prplhz was mafia, and Gonzaw thought he was the SK. In the situation we were in, we could have ended up in some terrible positions even lynching scum. So, the logical thing to do was to lynch the contentious player first, and then lynch the one who was mafia, because lynching mafia second was always the correct play no matter if the SK or Mafia was lynched first. On the other hand, lynching mafia first means that we had situations where we had to kill mafia and couldn't even lynch the SK. That means that if we mis-fingered the SK as mafia, or mafia pushed an SK lynch that made sense, because the guy was scum, we would lose. That's a shitty way to lose, and something I wanted to avoid. Say I was wrong about chaoser being mafia, and he was really the SK, that's a loss. Say Gonzaw was wrong about BB and Chaoser was mafia and not SK, that's a loss. The better thing to do was to have the conversation that day and make a decision while we still had time. Unfortunately, the conversation never happened as everyone was inactive or just plain lurking.He just kind of hits all the reasons in these posts. It feels like he's throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Wiggles obviously also tries hard to divert the lynch off of Palmar onto prplhz. I'm not going to go into it deeply, but it's obviously scummy by definition. The arguments are not really the prplhz is necessarily scummier. Wiggles puts forward that HE thinks prplhz is scummier, but he never really labors and tries to convince everyone else of that fact. He mainly tries to argue that from a logic standpoint lynching prplhz makes more sense, which is a strange argument. Also, if everyone suddenly changed their minds to thinking prplhz was town, I didn't know it, because no one said anything in the thread. I was working under the assumption that town agreed he was scum, but we were divided on whether he was mafia or SK. That's my blitz case on Wiggles. It's not exceptionally strong, as I haven't been able to really flesh out my case. I'm not necessarily making a judgement on Wiggles, as I want to first reread prplhz/chaoser. I'd like to hear Grey's and BB's thoughts though. Wiggles, if you want to respond to this, that's fine, though most of my case is built on tone and motivation. Additionally on Palmar's interaction with you, which I didn't touch on. That's my response. Looking forward to what you think of prplhz. Also, I want you to comment on GreYMisT. We still have to find the SK after we kill prpl. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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This is long overdue: ##Vote: prplhz We need to kill mafia to remove their KP. If you don't think prplhz is mafia, make a case for someone else and present it. Otherwise, he dies. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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So which of you is mafia, and which is the SK? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 21 2012 09:08 GreYMisT wrote: Well there is no way I can win now, haha. So you're the mafia and rad is SK? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 21 2012 09:13 GreYMisT wrote: Nope, im the town. If I were mafia I would still have KP, and if i were the SK i would be bulletproof and have a shot left (assuming BB was modkilled) How does your KP help you when the SK's bullet-proof and presumably still has his bullet. That means me or you is dying tonight and he wins. If you shoot me and he shoots you he's the last man standing. gg no re. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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I should have lynched both of you for being so useless and not pushing any real lynches... Too late now, I guess. =/ | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 21 2012 09:27 GreYMisT wrote: Ok assume I am the town player here. SK, You and me both win if you shoot the "not GreYMisT" player left and I don't die. This is a win/win scenario for you. Either you shoot the mafia and he doesnt trust me and shoots you, we are both alive and win. If he shoots me and you shoot him, You are the last left and GG you win. Except the same thing happens if you're mafia too, lol. You're just trying to play for a happily ever after ending with mafia and the SK joint winning. Whichever of you two are SK needs to decide which of the other two players is mafia and shoot them. Hopefully you make the right choice (not me). I'd rather not let mafia joint win. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:07 Radfield wrote: I had to shoot Night 1. First, there was a decent chance I was going to get shot by mafia, and if I didn't shoot then I'd be totally screwed. Second, I needed to kill a mafia before they hit me, because otherwise they could out my identity once 1 of them was getting lynched. Basically I had to kill a mafia before they shot me. So I shot Ace lolLol, you shot Ace too, hahaha. Also, the funny thing is that I don't think my interaction with Palmar was odd at all. Me and him just don't really interact in our games. For example, in JubJub, Pandain masoned me on Day 1. Palmar replaced in for him. The extent of our mason communications were about 20 lines of absolutely nothing over the course of the game. Same thing happened in Liar Game. I talked a lot with WBG, and somewhat with Syllogism, but had almost no communications with Palmar, even though I mentally linked their trio together. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
 ) then I'd look terrible. I was trying to figure out who the scum was between Rad and GreY, but their play was similar in that they didn't actually push lynch targets. I should have figured it was Rad because he's more experienced, and therefore should know better, but I'm a sucker for excuses and apologies. I also figured I'd like him more on my side since he'd be more likely to read what I wrote and be swayed by it. I'm not sure, but I think that might have even ended up happening. I was actually really scared when the game started because compared to a lot of the possible combinations, a Wiggles/Palmar scum team didn't seem that strong. Palmar becomes easy to read after a while, and I'm not a very strong late-game player as scum because I haven't really gotten the whole manipulation and push stuff where you want thing down yet. Fortunately town pursued some bad lynches before actually getting around to killing scum. I find it funny though, that in my last two games as scum, I keep looking for scummy townies to make cases on, and then get ninja'd by town players. Happened in LV, and now in this game. I thought hyaach would be a good player to accuse, and that's partially why I made that post after Night 1. Then in comes BB and Gonzaw to steal all my thunder, haha. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 21 2012 13:05 gonzaw wrote: Meh I firmly believed in my Hes case. His case on VE was bad and then he just appeared sporadically to accuse Rad and VE of being scum together and then immediately disappeared. Also in hindsight I could have voted Palmar instead of BB on D1 to get Palmar lynched......but well I thought he was town then Well, waiting for iGrok's analysis then EDIT: Oh yeah, why did you guys kill VE on N2? Since Wiggles was scum and I was saying "We'll lynch Wiggles on D3 no matter what" the whole night I thought if he was actually scum I'd get shot instead (which is another thing that made me think he was town later). Dunno, you'd have to ask Palmar. :p We didn't really talk about anything. That QT is the entire extent of our communications with each other. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 22 2012 06:10 iGrok wrote: I didn't get one comment on GreYMisT and Mr.Wiggles having hot lesbian sex in the endgame? Really? On June 21 2012 11:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So iGrok, what you're saying, is in the end I drew with SK and also literally fucked over the last town? I can live with that. :p GreYMisT was wearing the handcuffs. I think it's symbolic of how town were on the bottom and scum were on top. :p | ||
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