iGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia

On June 07 2012 09:32 GMarshal wrote:
guys, I'm the Time Traveling Avenging Dragon of Rebirth and Radfield scumslipped when he said he knew the setup!

On June 10 2012 09:06 chaoser wrote:


Gotta think deeper about it yo

On June 11 2012 02:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

This post is smart. Unlike RNG, which is dumb and useful for scum seeing as all they need to do is "RNG" someone who already has a couple votes. It leaves no accountability for who gets lynched because everyone will say the same thing "I just RNG'd it."

On June 11 2012 05:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
There's a happy coincidence - when I came into the thread and expressed my willingness to follow Palmar's algorithm, I refreshed his page and I was on the top of the list. The moment chaoser did the same, I went and refreshed the page and HIS name was at the top.

Fweeaky.

Anyway, hypothetically what would your thoughts be on using Palmar's program as a means to arrive at two CANDIDATES for lynch (the top and bottom of the list it generates) and lynching between them? In that way, we arrive at the two candidates randomly and we still get to pick the scummiest of two candidates rather than lynching truly randomly? Or does that remove the point of the RNG lynch entirely?

On June 11 2012 05:58 gonzaw wrote:
Oh yeah I fucking forgot about the Crazy Fiend.

Well, hey scum! If you ever shoot the CF and you are getting lynched, could you out his identity to us before you get lynched?

Here read this post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=3#46

On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:


I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG.

Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing".



Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction

Irrelevant.



Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game.

He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone.
VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose.

However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it.


After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy).
They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum.
They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that.

I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement.



For now yes, either him or Wiggles.

Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG.

About Radfield:

As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going.
I find those very positive traits.

However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum.
That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal.


However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).
Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal

On June 11 2012 06:14 Palmar wrote:
Just for the record, I think MZ failed already and I'd be willing to lynch him.

Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible.

Let's do this.

On June 11 2012 07:38 gonzaw wrote:
/facepalm

(please read the thread like I asked you to)

You also avoided a question I made to you:

What do you think of Wiggles?

Not only that, but:

What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him?
What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ?

On June 11 2012 07:38 gonzaw wrote:
/facepalm

(please read the thread like I asked you to)

You also avoided a question I made to you:

What do you think of Wiggles?

Not only that, but:

What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him?
What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ?

On June 11 2012 09:10 gonzaw wrote:


Wtf? Scumslip much?

My role is Vanilla Towny, so that means you just fake-claimed


##Vote: VisceraEyes








>_>


So VE, please share those reads with the "class"

On June 11 2012 11:59 gonzaw wrote:


Could you stop arguing with me please?

Yes, I may have missed BB's post when I tried to analyze Grey.
Hell, he could be scum as well, along with Grey (or SK, whatever).
The fact that I missed it doesn't mean shit on what I wrote about Grey.
I don't need to lynch both scum today, one suffices (and is in fact the only thing I can do...you know....you can't double-lynch and shit).

Yes the "he might be a bored townie" part may have been an exaggeration.

Water under the bridge, the enemy of my enemy is my friend (unless you are SK, in which case the enemy of the enemy of the friend of my enemy which is still the enemy of my enemy is my friend).

---

Ehmm...everybody except me in this game is a "big player". If had fear of lynching a big player then I'd have to vote for myself.


Grey, there has been thorough discussion about:
-VE
-Radfield

And you completely ignored both.

You were also asked to make reads with more content (on Wiggles for instance), and you didn't.
Instead you ignored everything and created more chaos by adding a guy (that you failed to acknowledged at all before) to the lynch candidate mix for shitty reasons.


No, Ace is barely trying this game, and he's acting just like in Liar Game; just fooling around.

If he were scum he'd be more manipulative by now, instead of "yeah RNG lynch k koo".
The great thing is that if he's scum he wouldn't do that, and that's true (unless someone posts a counter-example).

Not only that, I'm sure you know that as well, considering you've been interacting with Ace way longer than I have, which is why your vote was scummy as shit.

On June 11 2012 12:02 gonzaw wrote:
Right, you never hosted a game with Ace in it, nor you ever observed a game with Ace in it.

I'm sure you don't even know who Ace is. Is he one of those noobs that played the Newbie Games these past few games? I think he is.

On June 11 2012 12:12 gonzaw wrote:
Nope, it's not an attempt to make you emotional but an attempt to show the absurdity of what you've just said (well...if you don't really know who Ace is then sorry I guess >_> )

I'm still waiting for your contributions and "analysis"



I don't want you to make a decision, I want you to prove to us that you are town.

On June 11 2012 12:17 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah I'm sure they can bring it to you in the Obs QT when they die after you




(Bam! )

On June 11 2012 12:42 gonzaw wrote:
Okay Grey, do know that I don't have a "tunneling vendetta" against you or anything, you just seem to completely avoid the issues being brought on against you (lack of reads/analysis, creating suspicions, being "neutral", etc) and divert attention.

Okay then, I'll ask you some questions then (although I was hoping you'd post your opinion on them without being asked to):

What are your thoughts on the current discussion? Do you agree with Hesmyrr's case on VE (how the hell did you miss it?) ?
Do you agree with VE's and MZ's "case" against Radfield (again how the hell did you miss it?) ?

Do you have a more thorough analysis of Wiggles' play? What about the things we've been mentioning about him? Do you agree with them or not? Why or why not?

Why exactly do you think Ace is more suspicious than say...BrownBear?
Do you think this would fit Ace's scum play? Do you think he's just trolling or something as scum (unlike his "normal" scum play?) ?
Considering Ace played almost exactly like this on Liar Game (and he was town), what would you say about it? Would you still find him suspicious?

If you still think he's scum in base of all these, then make a more thorough explanation..

If you are town, you already have lots of opinions...just post them (it shouldn't be too hard...you already own said opinions, you don't have to fake them or anything).

On June 11 2012 12:56 Ace wrote:


what are you defining as content? This isn't rhetorical I'm really interested in knowing so I can frame your posts better.

On June 11 2012 13:09 gonzaw wrote:



*sigh* Why don't you stop worrying about "spewing gibbreish all over the thread" and just answer the questions and contribute?

Seriously, if I was town and I knew I was a possibly misslynch then I would give two shits about "trying to play correctly" and I'd try to convince people I'm town, because as much as "I don't want town to get into trouble", they would certainly get into one if they misslynched me.

That would be the case if answering those questions, providing more reasoning behind your votes/reads, and commenting on what's happening in the thread was "spewing gibberish"....which is not.....it's actually the opposite.


So you say that you want us to take a step back to analyse you and ask you questions, but when we do you get all defensive on our asses and do shit all?
What kind of town plead is that?



No, they are completely different things.

Ace is not doing anything disruptive, and because of the appliance of meta it means he's likely town. There's nothing "absurd" there.
Not only that, but he didn't even use it to "confirm" his towniness. Ace never said "Hey guys see how I'm not causing chaos nor creating suspicion among yourselves? Do you see it? Yes that means I'm confirmed town okay bye".
However, you certainly did (that Ace bit was a hyperbole so don't nit-pick).

On June 11 2012 13:10 Ace wrote:
somewhat. I'm going to re-read the thread later as I've been like active lurking when I've been on. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being cast as doing absolutely nothing for the day

On June 11 2012 13:18 Ace wrote:
have been what?

On June 11 2012 13:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
What is it with people absolutely losing their heads when they get accused these days. Grey please just take a step back, though you may not think you are, you're coming across very defensive. Also I'm just gonna say right now I'm EXTREMELY wary of lynching VE. He's been mislynched two games in a row (I was directly responsible for one of them). While that does not excuse him from scrutiny, I'm gonna have a hard time voting for his lynch.

On June 11 2012 13:44 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

broski I've done it twice in the span of two games, pardon me if I'm hesitant to complete the hat trick.

On June 11 2012 18:29 Palmar wrote:


hehehehehhe.

So who's up for lynching meapak with me?

On June 11 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
To clarify, the logic is terrible, but that doesn't make him scum. While using bad logic may be an indicator of someone being scum, it's not conclusive, because townies tend to be well... dumb.

The point is that he's using bad logic to avoid reaching a conclusion. If he was using bad logic to actually do something with it, like conclude someone he wanted to lynch, or decide that someone is town, I'd not be so eager to kill him. It's the fact that he's basically saying nothing for no reason that makes him scum.

Now, about VisceraEyes, there isn't a case against him yet, and meapak is much more likely to flip scum anyway. VE has a nice habit of looking ridiculously much like town when he is one, so we'll know soon enough.

The reason VE has been getting mislynched is because mafia has been pushing the idea he's scum, not because he has been scummy, or that was at least the case in Liar Game. I was scum myself and just chose to ignore the fact he was looking pretty towny.

On June 11 2012 09:43 chaoser wrote:



The fact that you show no suspicion to the usage of terms along with the rest of your posting makes me extremely suspicious of you.

##vote: greymist

On June 12 2012 00:20 chaoser wrote:


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=12#223

Your previous posts were the ones that lead me to be suspicious of you, your weird response to the townie/towny post (which might have just been me thinking everyone would think like me but they didn't so your reaction is less suspicious now though still in my mind) was just the last drop in the bucket.

And seeing as how you're here, you've got less than 12 hours till end of day yo. And you still haven't been doing much of anything.

On June 11 2012 13:37 GreYMisT wrote:
And woah woah woah. You are hesitant to vote VE because of misslynching him under completely different circumstances in a different game?

On June 12 2012 02:48 gonzaw wrote:


*sigh* LAL anyone?


I won't support a MZ lynch today, if we still have Greymist, Wiggles and maybe BrownBear still around.

I reread his filter and I don't find him as townie as I thought, but I don't want a bandwagon to form on him now, specially if nobody post why they wouldn't lynch Greymist or Wiggles instead

---

@Palmar: So, do you plan on commenting on this shit we've been doing these past few days or will you just try to live in your own little world up there?

Radfield is still disappeared...interesting.

On June 12 2012 04:01 gonzaw wrote:


It was sarcasm (lol I can't believe you guys keep falling for it).



You didn't post any thoughts about Greymist nor Wiggles, and the discussion pertaining those 2, for instance

---

@Meapak: I don't see you doing shit, I may end up supporting your lynch after all.
All these past few posts of you have been you bickering against Palmar and other people and not contributing at all.

On June 12 2012 04:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
And for those people who are complaining that I am "not contributing," relax. We have like 24 hours or something. I've already stated that I would support a greymist lynch, if you people actually need me to write a massive "analysis" (although it may not count because Palmar hasn't ordained it) I will.

chill people.

On June 12 2012 04:34 gonzaw wrote:


It was obvious it was sarcasm as soon as I mentioned the "Vanilla Towny" thing...which is why I did it.

I'd really like you to link those games you've played before (Student mafia was it? Or something)

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...mainly because you are active, and trying to do shit...even if that shit is absolutely nothing at all (and because nobody is pushing you right now and doing so would most likely mean me tunneling you and shitting the thread up).


Who would like a Wiggles or a BrownBear lynch?

On June 12 2012 06:31 Radfield wrote:


I'm considering it, but his demeanor is very unscumlike. That being said I think he has the ability to put up excellent defenses as scum when his back is against the wall. He had me second guessing myself in PYP:Int, and I basically had a red check on him.

He doesn't have anything expressly super-townie in his posts, but his overall in your face/antagonistic playstyle doesn't seem forced or fake. It seems like he doesn't really give a crap, which is a townie trait.

THAT being said, some of his posts raise flags(his early posts+ the VE post), but not really enough for me to want to lynch him.

I'm also realizing that it doesn't make particular sense to lynch you Day 1 either, as your town play tend to stand out, and you'll get significantly easier to read as the game goes on. It hinges on me finding another candidate though

On June 12 2012 19:10 Radfield wrote:


As far as I can tell this never happened. Care to point it out to me?




Can you elaborate on this? What kind of response did you expect to see from Greymist?

Greymist, what did you expect to accomplish from voting Ace? That seems like a fairly lame-duck plan to generate content.

On June 12 2012 07:07 Hesmyrr wrote:

I was actually waiting for you to post the analysis regarding VE, since I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet. Currently I find MZ lynch to be better than that of Palmar but I am not going to get stuck on black-white thinking; the fact that GreYMisT+VE have voted him is cause for concern which is why I am reserving my judgment until the last moment.

Personally the interactions happened between VisceraEyes and you are making me extremely wary.

On June 13 2012 09:14 chaoser wrote:
seems I've neglected this game, I'll be more active tomorrow since tomorrow is night for the other game.

On June 13 2012 11:00 gonzaw wrote:
@Greymist:

I don't like how you are just going around asking people questions and creating doubt on them.
Like, you quote Hesmyrr and cast doubt on him, but then you quote chaoser and cast doubt on him. What's your motivation for that? Do you really think any of them can be scum or are you just trying to blend in?

What are your suspicions right now? (before you "go back and reread carefully" and not show up for 10 hours, just tell me what you think right now)

On June 13 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, what do you think of Wiggles and BrownBear? (I don't think you ever mentioned your thoughts on BB yet)


Damn this game is deserted, before the game started I would have expected a war or something going on by now, with cases being thrown and posts being dissected and people shouting "OBJECTION!!" and then coming up with a new case that finally catches the right scum or something.

Clearly I was expecting too much from it

On June 13 2012 14:51 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, off to reread the thread!

(I think it will be the 1st time I'll ever reread a thread since it's beginning and not just read filters, I'm so excited!)

Up to page 11, and I already have new info and revelations :O :O :O

This is fun.

On June 12 2012 07:07 Hesmyrr wrote:

I was actually waiting for you to post the analysis regarding VE, since I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet. Currently I find MZ lynch to be better than that of Palmar but I am not going to get stuck on black-white thinking; the fact that GreYMisT+VE have voted him is cause for concern which is why I am reserving my judgment until the last moment.

Personally the interactions happened between VisceraEyes and you are making me extremely wary.

On June 12 2012 08:01 Hesmyrr wrote:
I am not insinuating, I am stating your behaviour before then was deservingly suspicious. Also I was still divided on whether to vote for VisceraEyes or MZ so wanted to see if there was going to be more materials/clues, like how you just behaved. You just wrote "I don't have the ability to make a coherant case in this amount of time", but you posted your suspicion on 6:11 so I'm not telling you to work on the fly. I don't even have to tie it into VE partnership to make it scummy, like you said ("I think the honest reason is that I wanted(and want) an alternative to a MZ lynch") you could be preparing in advance to make yourself look less responsible when MZ flips town, since you were looking for 'alternatives'. Keeping my eyes on you.

Also VE, why are you so concerned about where my vote is parked? As I see it, with Radfield present there is no way Palmar is going to be lynched - which is one thing I definitely do not want to see at the moment - so I see no reason for me to change my vote unless necessary.

On June 14 2012 00:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
FWIW GreY, I read the bolded as "Because Radfield, someone who is supporting Palmar, is here, Palmar isn't going to be lynched. Because this is something I'd like to avoid (because Palmar is my lynch of chocie) I'm leaving my vote on Palmar"

On June 14 2012 00:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's an odd way of looking at votes. "If you're not voting for who gets lynched, your vote doesn't matter"

Everyone's vote matters, whether they're voting with the majority or not.

On June 14 2012 06:53 Hesmyrr wrote:
Looks like people are holding some misconceptions. In response to gonzaw's post, firstly, my case is not entirely based on RNG but the fact that he'd been indecisive and have not been scum-hunting at that moment. This objection became alleviated on the future which is why I struggled a bit on the deadline since I had no clear suspect to comfortably push for.

My post in page 19 is not pointless. Like I stated I did not have any scum-read (at least one I believed I could push for with logic) except the fact that I did not want to see Palmar lynched. I also still thought VisceraEyes had reasonable chance of flipping scum while I had null read on MZ, so I tried to determine what to do using vote associatons. At that point BrownBear was unreasonably pushing for Palmar lynch and the post I quoted stood out as weak, passive defense of MZ. Thus I considered the possibility of BrownBear-MZ scum team therefore asked BB to flesh out his response to better. Unfortunately he then went afk for rest of the day so I dropped it.

What do you mean I barely mentioned MZ and Palmar? I was perhaps wishy-washy at that time, but one point I made clear was that I did not want to see Palmar lynched. I've repeatedly stated that was my primary objective. I did want to lynch VisceraEyes over MZ, but "I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet" a.k.a. I had no smoking gun that was going to persuade people, since others have dismissed my original argument and there wasn't much else to add. In fact the post you have quoted is continuation of my argument for VisceraEyes lynch. I noticed the suspicious interaction between him and Radfield, and tried to ascertain scumminess of those two by probing his response. Note that I actively start pressuring Radfield for his response thereafter. You bring up MZ repeatedly, but I do NOT have to wreck my brain trying to confirm him alignment. If VE become further scummy, then MZ definitely becomes town. Too bad you dismissed my last post since that's the conclusion you so sorely demand; between those two at least Radfield emerged greatly scummy.

Due to time constraints I am not going to be write proper analysis for today. I will post it on June 15, 2 ~ 3 KST.

On June 15 2012 04:43 gonzaw wrote:


Could you explain why "rad looks a bit bad" then?

@Palmar: You didn't unvote (it doesn't count...I think).

Hmm, I agree that VE is pretty townie and Rad would easily catch it...but he did say that "after rereading VE doesn't look so bad", so I'm not sure if he's being "blatantly and probably maliciously wrong".
What I'm concerned about is how he spent all Day 2 making promises and only defending himself but then he imploded and said he wouldn't do shit.



CHAOSER WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU?

On June 15 2012 06:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
EBWOP

Vote's so nice, I had to do it twice.

On June 15 2012 11:15 gonzaw wrote:
Oh people, another thing:


Beware of who scum push. Scum HAVE to lynch the SK at some point, and I doubt they'll be happy leaving him alive forever and let him be the last lynch since if they ever get to close to victory he can shoot into them.
So I think that scum may have started to or may start to push for a SK lynch (as in, they genuinely believe someone is SK and are pushing for his lynch, they could always be wrong about who they believe is SK though).

I dunno why but my gut feeling says that's what's happening with Wiggles/other people pushing chaoser.

But like I said, I'll reread things later so take this with a grain of salt it's just a hunch.

On June 15 2012 11:52 gonzaw wrote:


Finding the SK, what else?

On June 15 2012 12:01 gonzaw wrote:
No, that's not true.

For instance, scum could very well do with me surviving until a 2-2 phase, they don't give a shit as long as they kill/lynch other townies.

So they don't really give a shit about killing me or forcing my lynch, but they'd do it only if it's in their best interests.

However, they NEED to kill the SK, it's not just one guy they can take care of only if it benefits them. They actively need to search for him, and not only that, but need to get him lynched (since he's bulletproof at night).

So yeah, scum will most likely start to hunt the SK and force his lynch, and I don't see how it isn't be good for town to know this.


I wonder what you think of Hes' flip Grey though, and what made you start this conversation in the first place (do you think I'm scum for bringing it up?)

On June 15 2012 12:08 gonzaw wrote:
I sure got those vibes when you said this:



No...scum don't instantly know who the SK is...but they need to find him, and they do need to get him lynched afterwards.

When we lynch some scum in the future, we can use this info to see who he was pushing..and if we find he was legitimately pushing someone with good reasons, then that guy is probably SK (or is probably the guy they thought was SK).

You are still dodging the issue, what do you think of this Hes flip? (and why start this semi-pointless argument?)

On June 15 2012 13:16 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah, you say that so casually that it looks like a normal Thursday.

Wife-"Hey honey! How was your day!"

Husband-"Oh, hes flipped VT, which means I was wrong, which means he thought that VE was scum, changed his mind, and wasn't here at all to contribute, you know, the usual stuff"

Really dude? Like, he just flipped VT and you have nothing else to say? How about it completely changing your reads? How about the flip making you desperate because you know tomorrow is LYLO and we need to catch scum fast?
How about it phasing you at all in any way?

On June 15 2012 14:20 gonzaw wrote:
I want you to react.

Any townie whose FoS just flipped VT would at least feel something and would at least start to think differently.


What are your immediate thoughts right now? Like, what is the first thing that crossed your mind when you saw him flip? "Damn I was sure X was town but now I think he may be scum" perhaps?
Or "Okay, doesn't matter I already I thought X was a little bit suspicious so now I can still have a coherent scum team and I don't need to change my reads too much" ?
Or maybe "AOJALKD WTF??? Okay I give up" ?


You are just acting like you don't even care about his flip...or like you expected it.

On June 16 2012 01:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
What worries you about Wiggles? You spent a fair amount of time explaining why you're worried about Palmar and none explaining what worries you about Wiggles.

On June 16 2012 02:37 prplhz wrote:
Hey

After Liar Game I decided never to join another invite game. I simply feel outclassed because I'm simply outclassed. But then you guys needed a replacement and chaoser already had a 2 page filter and it was [M][N] so I thought what the hell. This means that I'm just going to post whatever I feel like and if some (or all) of it is dumb then you can just kiss my derriere.

chaoser had a 2 page filter and he was vanilla townie. If you look hard enough then you should be able to see that. It's going to take a while before I can get a 2 page filter and expecting me to appear hyper townie on day1 (well, my day1) is pretty silly.

Think we're at night 2 so I should have a good 48 hours to read the thread and form some reads. Expect anything more from me and you're going to be disappointed. If you really feel that chaoser was scum then I can only tell you to read his filter again or be wrong.

On June 16 2012 03:55 gonzaw wrote:


Although I like people thinking I'm SK for now (hopefully scum don't shoot me tonight because of it ), I don't think the SK would be too confident in being "invincible" at night, since if he's too pro-town there's like 80% chance scum will shoot him at night, revealing his identity to them.


"Wiggles worries me"
"Chaoser is a mystery to me"
"Palmar worries me"

So.....anything conclusive to say? At least from gut feeling?



Do you think Greymist is town?


What do you people think about lynching Wiggles tomorrow?

On June 16 2012 04:18 gonzaw wrote:
That's not conclusive, I didn't see you calling him scum.

On June 11 2012 08:03 Radfield wrote:
I really like that.

This is why you need to play more often Hesmyrr.

On June 12 2012 06:11 Radfield wrote:


It's actually not that good. But it IS a good effort.

There is a decent case to be made on VE, but I want to finish filtering first.

On June 12 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
This isn't going to work. Cue the VE 'I told you so' dance.

I don't have the ability to make a coherant case in this amount of time and I misread one of VE's posts that made it go from scummy to normal. VE doesn't even look that bad upon rereading. I'm happy to explain what I was seeing, but it doesn't make a difference right now.

I prefer a MZ lynch over Palmar.

On June 16 2012 10:19 gonzaw wrote:
Greymist, answer me this:

Why was VE killed instead of me?

Is there anything that catches your eye or something? Like scum trying to kill VE because he was onto something, or WIFOMing about it and trying to misdirect town?
Why wouldn't they kill me? Because I was on the wrong track or perhaps because they thought I was SK?
Or perhaps because they wanted to push my lynch in the future? (I doubt this).

Grey, would you want a Palmar lynch today or not? What about Wiggles?

On June 16 2012 10:32 gonzaw wrote:
You can certainly analyze night kills...although you can't really use them as evidence for anything.

The way you can usually use them is like this:
"I think X,Y,Z,etc are scum, do night kills contradict that? If so then it's likely they are not the scumteam; if not then it doesn't really tell me anything, but it doesn't contradict it.

However...there are times where some night kills do seem odd (like VE one last night, at least from my POV). Perhaps it doesn't tell you anything about exactly why scum did it...but I think it can tell you something about scum's "comfort" in the game and their "versatility" in a manner of speaking.
Basically, if a night kill happens and you don't seem to really understand it, it most likely means that perhaps scum are content and comfortable (for instance, in Newbie IV me/Ceph/etc as scum just night killed suspicious people because we were trolling town, and because we were pretty comfortable, even though the kill itself wouldn't say anything in particular about the game).

That's what I believed happened with the Ace kill, and what I believed happened with the VE kill as well, from my POV, which I think means that scum are comfortable and using their shots just to induce WIFOM/create chaos/just get rid of annoying people, and not because they are shooting people that are on the right track and are a danger to them.

I may be overanalyzing it, but that thing made me reconsider my reads (again >_> ), and I think Palmar has a great chance of flipping scum because of it (a Palmar scum would be pretty comfortable this game).

Thoughts on this?


Palmar has been absent since he cast his vote on Radfield like 30 hours ago or something, do you think he'd act like this as town?

On June 16 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:


Exactly my point.
Why would you kill a random person as scum? Because you are comforable in the game

If your whole scum team was gunned down by 1 townie for instance, and he was systematically slaying all of you each day, you wouldn't shoot a random player would you? If you did it would heavily play against you unless you were a real smooth-talker, it would still be risky as hell.

For instance, if you and Wiggles were scumbuddies, I think you could have shot me last night, and you wouldn't shoot VE as hell considering he would most likely push a misslynch on Palmar or prplhz.
If that was the case, then I doubt you guys were comfortable, which would mean that if you took a shot at night, you wouldn't make it to confuse town or just to improve your comfort, but to try to actually improve your chances at winning by shooting me.

It's not set in stone and I won't use it as 100% proof of anything, but it made me say to myself "Wait, why did this happen? Maybe I should reread the thread with a clear head"


Grey, do you still think Rad is scum...even though he's been active pretty much the whole game, has been in part of every discussion, tried to get people to post, seemed cheerful about it, and even recognized he was playing bad and tried to remedy it later with his case on Palmar and thoughts on other players?

If so, what scum motivation do you find there? Do you think he may be acting similarly to another game of his as scum perhaps? (one that wasn't AC...I don't know which other game he was scum in >_> ).

On June 16 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:


Exactly my point.
Why would you kill a random person as scum? Because you are comforable in the game

If your whole scum team was gunned down by 1 townie for instance, and he was systematically slaying all of you each day, you wouldn't shoot a random player would you? If you did it would heavily play against you unless you were a real smooth-talker, it would still be risky as hell.

For instance, if you and Wiggles were scumbuddies, I think you could have shot me last night, and you wouldn't shoot VE as hell considering he would most likely push a misslynch on Palmar or prplhz.
If that was the case, then I doubt you guys were comfortable, which would mean that if you took a shot at night, you wouldn't make it to confuse town or just to improve your comfort, but to try to actually improve your chances at winning by shooting me.

It's not set in stone and I won't use it as 100% proof of anything, but it made me say to myself "Wait, why did this happen? Maybe I should reread the thread with a clear head"


Grey, do you still think Rad is scum...even though he's been active pretty much the whole game, has been in part of every discussion, tried to get people to post, seemed cheerful about it, and even recognized he was playing bad and tried to remedy it later with his case on Palmar and thoughts on other players?

If so, what scum motivation do you find there? Do you think he may be acting similarly to another game of his as scum perhaps? (one that wasn't AC...I don't know which other game he was scum in >_> ).

On June 16 2012 10:49 gonzaw wrote:
Because he isn't a threat to scum, and is a possible misslynch.
Like I said, that's what happened on "I am a Cop you Idiot!" Mafia, which is what made me rethink my "subcutaneous" (wut?) suspicion of him.

I knew the night kill would basically boil down to VE or me, but I thought I was more "apparent" townie than VE and I thought I was on the right track, meaning I thought I'd get instantly shot. But well we know the rest of that story.


Also Grey, answer that question, do you find Rad's specific behaviour scummy as well?

On June 16 2012 13:02 Radfield wrote:
VE dying pushes more doubt on me. One, Palmars case against me rested on VE being obvious town, which he now most certainly is. Two, me not dying pushes suspicion on me as well, as technically I should be dead.

I honestly would have been shocked if I'd been shot last night, and I expected Gonzaw to take a bullet. Thinking about it though, VE was almost universally seen as town, so his death makes sense by virtue of that alone.



Greymist, that is not how things went down. I did not simply put out VE's name and then sit back to see if it picked up steam. I read his filter, saw some things I didn't like, and mentioned that I thought he should be looked at closer. I then went and filtered every other player in the game(except Gonzaw) in an effort to find a good lynch. Read my posts at the end of Day 1. My thought process is clear, and I was trying to find the best lynch.

When I went back to build his case, it just wasn't happening. Things I thought were scummy simply no longer seemed scummy. And I even mentioned that he didn't look that bad once I reread him.

If I was really trying to push a VE lynch, I wouldn't have just said "there is a case to be made on VE". That's not going to pick up any votes, and is hardly even a condemnation, it's just me stating I found some scummy things in VE's filter.



I admit I wasn't contributing for a time, but really we're talking about a chunk of time from end of D1-mid D2. Since then and before then I have been doing my best to contribute. Also, there were no careful steps to find a safe lynch. I didn't really like the MZ lynch, but couldn't see a better option and didn't want to lynch Palmar. Day 2 I was quite happy with a Hesmyrr lynch, as he was my top scum read.

Anyways I'll weigh in on the lynch in the morning. Haven't read that case yet Gonzaw.

On June 17 2012 02:21 Radfield wrote:



I'm not quite sure what you mean. I never "swapped off" VE, as I never voted him. I stated that I saw some scummy stuff in his filter, but wanted to look for a different target. Lynching VE day 1 doesn't really make sense because he's normally pretty easy to deduce as town as the game goes on.

Also, I feel had I been able to make a strong case(which I didn't find), then there was plenty of time to lynch VE. The real issue is that upon rereading VE's filter, he didn't really look that bad.

What do you think of Palmar Greymist?

On June 17 2012 03:18 Radfield wrote:


Why were you looking for weird behavior around VE and MZ? Do you find that scum act weird towards townies? Not sure I follow that line of reasoning.

On June 17 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
Okay screw that.

gonzaw is not scum and no matter if he is SK or town he wants to lynch scum today. He's also putting in quite a bit of effort so maybe he's right. Palmar isn't doing much and I don't really have a huge town read on him. He just seemed townie when I read the game. Anyway, lets just roll with this Palmar lynch today. I'm just going to sheep gonzaw on an opinion I don't really agree with but that's how it's going to be for now.

##Vote: Palmar

If gonzaw is scum then gg wp. You should try replacing into a game where everybody thinks you're scum by default, it's not really all that fun.

On June 18 2012 00:57 BrownBear wrote:
I think Greymist is town because I haven't really been able to read through his filter, and don't have much of a read on him. I will do that.

Also gonzaw, don't try to play when you're drunk. Bad things happen. I'll wait for you to come back when sober and clarify what you meant by all of that.

On June 19 2012 06:44 Radfield wrote:
Man, Brownbear, Greymist, Wiggles, Prp. Who do you guys want to lynch tomorrow? Who do you think is strongly NOT scum?

On June 19 2012 07:11 prplhz wrote:
I just disagree, that's not scummy at all. It's not towny in any way but it's not scummy. Why would scum ever say "I'm not going to help at all", especially when I'm the last scum left? I can do whatever the fuck and write bullshit analysis 'cause I'd have no fear of doing anything that might potentially hurt my team mates. I only have me to worry about.

It's not that I don't care, I sheeped gonzaw for a perfectly valid reason. I read up on the thread and gave you my opinions. I think it's weird that you and Mr. Wiggles feel so strongly about me.

On June 19 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote:
Why is this suddenly about me?

It should be pretty obvious that I don't feel as strongly about BrownBear as you and Mr. Wiggles do about me.

On June 19 2012 09:11 Radfield wrote:
Well played Gonzaw. Very solid effort.

Prp, if you are town, you are going to get mislynched and lose the game. I need a solid effort from you in the next 24 hours. If you are not the last scum, who do you think is. Find him and push him.

I'm going to be rereading everyone, there's no reason to slack off now folks. Wiggles, I want you to assume Prplhz is town, who is the last scum if that's the case?

Greymist, you haven't done much of anything lately. Are you convinced prplhz is the last scum?

On June 17 2012 06:25 prplhz wrote:

Don't really want to talk about gonzaw. I'm probably just getting the same 3rd party vibes off of him that everybody else is getting too.

I want to lynch you because you are still alive. I don't see why scum would shoot Ace and VisceraEyes over you. You can't really do much to defend yourself here and I guess that sucks (for both of us).

BrownBear had his weird emotional outburst against Palmar that seemed rather townie but then he didn't do much else which seems less towny.

On June 17 2012 06:31 prplhz wrote:
Like, gonzaw just did two huge posts on Palmar. One of them says that Palmar is scum because he is too confident in himself, lol have you never played with Palmar before?

Anyway, then in his next post he's like "We can lynch prplhz, whatever". At the same time, when I ask for help after having replaced into the middle of a game and expressing my insecurities about playing with you lot, he doesn't seem interested at all. He doesn't appear to want to help me get started or anything. GreYMisT thinks I'm scum but he's been pushing me for something at least. gonzaw doesn't look like he cares and for absolutely no reason. It looks to me like he's just doing whatever this game and that seems 3rd partyish to me. 8 page filter and then I still don't get the feeling that he actually cares about town this game.

On June 17 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote:
I don't think that Palmar is scum no. It's mostly his demeanor and I'm probably shit at that but I think that he seems townie enough for now. Your case is a little far fetched with the "How is he so confident?!". I didn't read it all too hard 'cause you were all yelling at me to write something in this thread and I didn't think that Palmar was scum so now I'm here.

If you think I'm going to replace in and carry this game then you're crazy. Not only do I suck compared to most of you, I also replaced in mid way which is kind of hard to do. The rest of you have several days on me. I'm here and I'm giving you my opinion and that's really what I'm going to be doing for at least today. inb4 "l0L he r maek xcuze 4 not p0st".

Your filter is just so fucking huge, 8 pages that's 20% of this game. And it feels like you're all over the place, pointing at someone and then pointing at someone else and not really caring who gets lynched (right now of Palmar and me but I think this has been a general trait of yours in this game).

On June 17 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
Okay screw that.

gonzaw is not scum and no matter if he is SK or town he wants to lynch scum today. He's also putting in quite a bit of effort so maybe he's right. Palmar isn't doing much and I don't really have a huge town read on him. He just seemed townie when I read the game. Anyway, lets just roll with this Palmar lynch today. I'm just going to sheep gonzaw on an opinion I don't really agree with but that's how it's going to be for now.

##Vote: Palmar

If gonzaw is scum then gg wp. You should try replacing into a game where everybody thinks you're scum by default, it's not really all that fun.