Fuck yeah I want to /in if possible.
(inb4 I become Doc/Cop/Watcher and can't day vig )
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
gonzaw
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Fuck yeah I want to /in if possible. (inb4 I become Doc/Cop/Watcher and can't day vig ) | ||
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On June 05 2012 10:25 slOosh wrote: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 08:36 Ace wrote: Everyone closes their eyes and I call out each role to do their thing: (Mafia, Cop, Doctor, maybe an SK) and all actions go through. Oh so you have to axe out the "less standard" roles such as watcher and roleblocker? Fully open setup too I'm assuming (e.g. you tell them all there will be 1 cop 1 doc 3 mafia etc.) Nah, you could still have them. And you can have a semi-open setup as well. For instance, each "night" is like this: "Mafia open your eyes"-They point who they want to kill "Roleblocker open your eyes"-He points who he wants to block "Framer open your eyes"-He points who he wants to frame "Medic open your eyes"-He points who he wants to save, shrugs or something if he was RBed "Cop open your eyes"-He points who he wants to check, receives check depending on what RBer and Framer did (nod=mafia, no=town, shrug shoulders=you've been RBed) "Watcher open your eyes"-He points who he wants to watch, and the host points a finger to whom visited that person (no=he wasn't visited, shrug=you were RBed) "Tracker open your eyes"-He points who he wants to track, and the host points a finger to whom he visited last night (no=he didn't visit anyone, shrug=you were RBed). "Everybody open your eyes"-He says who died. He would spend what, like 10 seconds tops between each cycle right? So imagine there is 1 RBer, 1 Framer, but only 1 Medic. He still says "Cop open your eyes" and stuff, even if there is no Cop, that way people won't know if there is one or not. | ||
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On June 06 2012 01:59 FreelanceSatan wrote: Im not a smurf. I have no idea what your talking about. lol | ||
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This is less fun I.E stupid VT shoots 10 minutes at the start of D1, shoots a townie and we go straight to N1. Rinse and repeat each other cycle. EDITED FOR DERP EDIT: Vanilla Towny Yeah I'm sure this won't bring any problems at all, right? >_> | ||
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(or at least he's making a good job of impersonating that guy). I don't want to ruin the surprise though | ||
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On June 11 2012 05:58 Toadesstern wrote: if that was a smurf fail that's hilarious and I should have added [ ] before the game has started to the question as well :p I thought it's someone else though Same here | ||
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On June 11 2012 09:51 FreelanceSatan wrote: here maybe this will help you remember. Oh yeah, I remember that time we spent in there, if you know what I mean Also.....if I'm VT I'm shooting you D1 unless you don't act like an idiot >_> | ||
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At least you'll live longer | ||
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Let's get this bad boy started pew pew pew | ||
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On June 11 2012 14:37 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2012 03:14 rastaban wrote: Are millers self aware, can Doctors protect themselves, can watchers and/or millers shoot? And. Here. We. Go. Millers are self aware in this setup. Okay, Millers, claim away. | ||
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Thoughts on this? | ||
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Doctor - Saving lives is your job! Shooting people is a no no! You can't day kill but you can protect someone at night. You can't protect the same player on consecutive nights. You can be Sane, Insane, Paranoid or Weak. Nevermind | ||
gonzaw
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If you think someone is scum and really want to shoot them...you can always shoot them later (if everybody follows this trail of thought we'll have normal days). Okay people, if we have a Miller, do they claim tonight or tomorrow? If they claim tonight, and we have a cop the cop won't check them, but if they don't claim tonight there' s a chance the cop will. If they claim tonight however, there's a chance scum will shoot them because of their "semi-confirmed" status (i.e scum never fake-claim Miller, so someone claiming Miller is 80% telling the truth). Oh wait, here's the plan: Miller, as soon as D1 starts, claim and you'll be the one in charge of shooting on D1 My plan goes like this: First of all, a Miller claim will avoid a cop checking him subsequent nights. Second, the Miller can shoot at day, therefore we can use him to choose the D1 shot. Third, like said before the Miller is "semi-confirmed" because in average scum never fake-claim Miller, and they will most likely not do it today. Why? Because then the Godfather will be the one forced to fake-claim Since the plan is for the Miller to shoot on D1, and the only scum that can do so is the GF, then only him can fake-claim Miller (if any other scum claims Miller, they'll get instantly caught once they refuse to shoot). So, let's imagine the GF fake-claims Miller, what then? Then there is another Miller or there isn't: 1) There is another Miller claim: Then there will be a counterclaim; and one of them will basically be confirmed scum (the chances of 2 Millers is EXTREMELY low). We then let them shoot each other. If the real Miller is faster, great he'll shoot the GF and we'll live happily ever after. If the GF is faster, well then we can kill the GF the next day/night. 2) There is no other Miller claim: In this case, although we may take him as "confirmed" for a while, he'll be in the spotlight for quite a while. Not only that, we can make a tracker track him at night, that way we can catch him as GF. After we get rid of the GF, then catching the remaining scum will be easy if we all claim if we have a gun (and can shoot) or not. Those that claim they have a gun take turns in shooting each day (to actually confirm they have a gun) into the group that claimed they didn't have a gun (of course shooting those we think are actually scum from that group, not shooting our freaking blues >_>). So, if the GF claims Miller there is a high chance he'll get fucked, therefore I don't think he will. Therefore I think we can trust a Miller claim tomorrow, and in the worst case we'll get a tracker on him at N2. So people, this is the plan I was thinking of, do you agree or not?: To Miller:
To Town:
To Tracker the next night:
If we don't have any Millers it will be apparent soon (before the 24 hours or so) since everybody will post but there will be no claim. If that happens, then after the 24 or so hours normal VTs are allowed to shoot. The purpose of this plan is:
Of course this means everybody would follow the plan (those that have a gun and those that don't), so we are guaranteed to have some D1 time to discuss So people, what do you think? Observation: Maybe the SK can fake-claim Miller, since he can shoot at Day. However, the SK is forced to shoot at night, therefore a tracker on him WILL catch him. Also, since a "confirmed" Miller is bad reputation for scum, scum are likely to shoot the Miller claim, so the chances of scum shooting the SK will increase, blowing his cover once he survives the hit (and no medic claims his save). Basically, the SK fake-claiming Miller will let us/scum catch him sooner or later, and doing so to get the D1 shot (why would he want the D1 shot?) and a little confirmed status for a while isn't worth it for him. Observation2: There is a chance we don't have a tracker. In which case we can't confirm the Miller. First of all, the point is that scum don't know if we have a tracker either, so by having the GF fake-claim Miller they risk we actually having one. Second, even if we don't have a tracker, the GF will still be in the spotlight, because town will assume the tracker tracked him and got a "good" result (i.e that he didn't visit anyone), but the "Miller" claim will keep being alive throughout the whole game. This will mean that one day or the other the Miller-fake-claiming-Godfather will fall; so again it's not very convenient for him to do so | ||
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On June 12 2012 01:03 chaoser wrote: @gonzaw I'm surprised you're asking millers to claim and then shoot day 1 when it's just as good to have millers claim day 1 and then you yourself volunteer to shoot day 1. Since you yourself did not volunteer immediately to shoot on day 1, I was wondering if you'd like to start us off by shooting on day 1. In this game, to find 3 out of the 4 mafia, I feel like it's pretty easy. We just force the person we think is the most suspicious to shoot the person THEY think is most suspicious. If they can shoot, they are not one of the three regular mafia. The only anti-town that gets out of this is the GF and the SK but they should be easy to narrow down when we combine this method with regular analysis. If they can't shoot, then they are either mafia or blue. In terms of blue roles, I actually don't think they matter that much this game and I'd totally be ok with any blue role that gets suspected and put on the spot to shoot to just claim. RB is nerfed this game to only be able to roleblock the same person on every other night so that means mafia can't just nilly willy claim blue and then when they don't die to mafia gunfire for a few days, get off scott free. So basically it goes discussion--->decide who is "most suspicious"--->force them to shoot who THEY think is most suspicious--->if they can't shoot, they will be forced to claim--->we then decide if the claim is valid or not--->shoot if we don't think the claim is valid. I don't want to volunteer to shoot myself because that would be selfish as fuck, and I know people would oppose that throwing the "But I don't know your alignment!" argument around. Millers shooting is an "universal" plan that everybody can follow. However, I agree with what you said, we can force the most suspicious player to shoot to prove he's not regular Goon. Actually I thought about it once I read Bang Bang Mafia...but for some reason I forgot about it when this game started :/ I find one problem with having the most suspicious player shoot the guy he thinks is scum and not the 2nd most suspicious player: If that player is the Godfather he will easily shoot a townie. If we forced that player to shoot the 2nd most suspicious player, the GF would be forced to shoot him, and if that 2nd suspicious player was another scum, he'd be forced to shoot his scumbuddy (or not shoot and out BOTH of them as scum). We also prevent the chaos of that player being the VT, but shooting our cop or medic and then spending the rest of the night/day wondering if he's GF or not. @Toad: Well, every single game I've played had only 1 Miller in it. Okay, we can try to be careful if there are more than 1 Miller claim. To be honest, having Millers shoot on D1 or following chaoser's plan is good either way. It certainly beats what they did on Bang Bang Mafia 1. Anyways, this shouldn't even be a discussion, no matter what plan we take: Millers claim at most on D1 So, let's hope this is taken care of, so let's try to get some analysis up in this bitch | ||
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Every time you've been lynched you flipped scum, I don't remember a single time you've been lynched as town. So that's crap If you start acting similar like that game I'll policy lynch you. However you are acting normal now so that's not the case (see? It wasn't hard). If you really want to volunteer, then you know that you should shoot the player town tells you to, right? | ||
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Anyways, I had a sudden doubt: -If all VTs of us died, and only blue remained...would we instantly lose the game? I mean, we wouldn't have anybody to shoot at day, meaning we wouldn't have "lynches". So every day would either be NL or the GF shooting townies; then scum would shoot at night. Is this true or did I miss something? | ||
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On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote: The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle. If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two. If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return. I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping. It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will. I think this is what we've already agreed on initially. This is another thing I've thought of: Medics, try to protect our claimed VTs that already shot as much as you can instead of blues Reasons:
If you have to choose someone to protect, then I'd say choose watchers and trackers, since the checks from those are confirmed (i.e they know their "sanity"). Cops and other Medics need lots of days to figure out their alignment, so in early game they are not useful. So in N1 I'd suggest the medic protects the VT/Miller that used his shot. Kind of like if the one that shot was a claimed blue that confirmed his action of sorts (and needs protection at night). Although....figure out your sanity first. Tonight protect someone and see the result of your action (e.g the guy you protected claimed RBed, etc). Anyways, damn, I really want to start some analysis, but this whole night is just a bunch of discussion about plans @Marv: What do you think of RoL's claim? Do you think it's legit or not? | ||
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We can force him to shoot and have trackers/watchers/cops (not all of them at the same time of course) on him to determine if he's GF or not. As in, we force him to shoot someone of our (town) liking, with voting and shit, not just someone he randomly wants to shoot (like he says he'll shoot Toad). Of course he'll have to follow this or we'll just shoot him the next day for being a scummy scum/rogue. If he's really GF he'll be alive for quite a while (and obviously under quite scrutiny like he's under now) so I doubt he can get away with it (again, like I said in my other Miller post). | ||
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On June 12 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 10:14 gonzaw wrote: I don't find him suspicious mostly because of the claim itself (I've never seen scum fake-claim Miller in my whole life, and I doubt I will). We can force him to shoot and have trackers/watchers/cops (not all of them at the same time of course) on him to determine if he's GF or not. As in, we force him to shoot someone of our (town) liking, with voting and shit, not just someone he randomly wants to shoot (like he says he'll shoot Toad). Of course he'll have to follow this or we'll just shoot him the next day for being a scummy scum/rogue. If he's really GF he'll be alive for quite a while (and obviously under quite scrutiny like he's under now) so I doubt he can get away with it (again, like I said in my other Miller post). For someone who likes his setup speculation this is some weak shit. We have no idea what roles we have and if they can come close to confirming anything. Watchers doesn't even make sense. Scum have 1 KP and they'd send their GF? Doesn't make sense either, what does a tracker do. Cop takes forever to confirm sanity and he can't keep checking RoL. Towns very rarely lynch mafia day 1 so forcing him to do anything is probably going to lead to a townie death regardless and will confirm nothing of his alignment. Anyway guys, RoL, gonzaw... Yeah I got carried away when I mentioned the watcher He's under scrutiny just by claiming Miller. Mafia may take the chance to shoot him tonight or on N1 just because of the reasons I presented previously. The "real" game hasn't started yet (the analysis and shit), so there's really no behaviour that can convince me Rol is GF (like I said his claim alone makes me think its legit). Anyways I gotta eat so I'll expand later | ||
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On June 12 2012 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 10:14 gonzaw wrote: I don't find him suspicious mostly because of the claim itself (I've never seen scum fake-claim Miller in my whole life, and I doubt I will). Because the games where self-aware millers are possible on this forum are practically nonexistent. I played 2 (I think? Or maybe it was just once) games with self-aware Millers on UG and there weren't any fake-claims either. The rest of your post and filter is just unsubstantiated assumptions (for example, the repeated language toward you assuming RoL is town). Yeah I'm not really putting too much effort this game for now (other than just coming up with a plan of action). Mostly because I expect to get shot tonight, so anything I do would basically be pointless (I knew that in pre-game though). And no, the "real" game hasn't started because there's basically nothing to analyze or to respond to. There aren't any cases, or people's thoughts on other players, and I'm lazy to check each filter to try and gauge a read out of people just by their opinion on the plans presented. For now I only have a few town reads, and a slight suspicion on Dirkzor for his "eagerness" to show people what to do or correct them but being absent since then. You also contradict yourself fairly heavily in that you urge specifically for a day 1 miller claim but you seem to have no problem at all with a n0 miller claim I already posted he fucked up by claiming right now. But at least he claimed, Miller claim >>>> no Miller claim, whether on N0 or D1 The only bad thing about doing so on N0 is that scum may shoot him....and that's not the end of the world or anything (again like I posted in my previous post | ||
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If you really want to shoot me or something at least wait 24 hours into D1 so you don't waste the whole day and so we can put some sense into you. You are being needlessly aggressive as well, I don't know what's up with that. | ||
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On June 12 2012 11:47 talismania wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 10:58 marvellosity wrote: On June 12 2012 10:57 talismania wrote: On June 12 2012 10:50 wherebugsgo wrote: On June 12 2012 10:35 talismania wrote: I've realized that an idea I had after Space Station might be applicable here. I was saving it up for a game with a mayoral election and PMs, but I then saw that in this game we all get to be mayor! So here's the outlines of the idea. The goal is to catch scum out in the long run by forcing them to post cases, suspicions, etc. Scum operate by feeling out the thread, sensing where discussion is going and nudging it along in a favorable direction or whatever. Blending in and all that jazz. To make it harder for this to happen (and to simultaneously make it so that everyone is playing harder), I came up with this proposal. (1) Everyone has to pick one person to make a case on, for why they think that person is scum. You have to actually make the case, like you're radfield or qatol or whatever. Nice decent-length post. (2) Everyone reveals their case at the same time (a good time would be near daybreak). This is the part that makes it hard for scum to blend in. (3) Note that there's extra information to be had here: who participated and who didn't. And why did the people who didn't participate not do so? (4) We take a look at the cases and go from there. FAQ: What's this good for again? --Forces participation / thread reading --Forces scum to make their own cases rather than hanging back --Additional information: HOW do people make their cases etc --When someone flips scum, there's a wealth of information to look back on. Who did they make a case on? Who made a case on them? Etc etc How the fuck do you get everyone on the thread at the same time? --You don't need to. You can post your case before the deadline but encrypt it using http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html and then post the key later. Yay encryption! What's wrong with just posting our cases as we make them? --Nothing really. That's obviously how every other game is played. But doing it this way can force everyone to play harder, better, etc. See the first question. It's not like posting has to stop until the cases are made or anything. Does it have to be a case on a single person? --All that matters for point (1) above is that it's something agreed to by everyone. It could be a case on a single person. It could be reads on everyone in the game. It could be a top four list of scum contenders. Whatever we think generates the most information. Your point (4) - how do we get from this to a lynch? --Nothing in particular. This acts as an info dump. We can get from it to the shooting however we want. Boohoo it will spam the thread up! --Suck it up and play the game. Mafia is about reading things and making decisions. If you're concerned about this, then we can all put our encrypted cases in spoiler tags. ___________ I will do this for sure. Anyone with me? I'm not going to wade through walls of bullshit to find scum. If I were on the scumteam I personally would love doing this, as I'd instantly be the most townie motherfucker in the thread. Look at my first post in Mini X if you don't believe me. Right here. Do you have any idea how damaging it is to town to have to wade through walls of completely fabricated text? Even townies will end up fabricating cases just to create fluff if we impose this rule. I know I will, because often times when I run into a scum, it's one or two lines that make or break the read. Fair point, but if people don't want to wade through walls of shit, then we don't have to make a case. It can be a list of four names, simply. Maybe one sentence for why each is scum. So effectively you want townie to behave like townies would anyway and scum to appear more townlike than they'd appear otherwise Nice =/ You miss the point. Participation doesn't mean scum are acting "more townlike" at all. The strongest information that comes out of it is what happens when someone flips scum. Now there's a repository of information to be gleaned from, as we've instituted a policy requiring everyone to post their reads/cases/top 4 whatever. Furthermore, there's info in HOW the cases or whatever policy is presented. How strongly are they worded - how much do people push what they wrote afterwards? It gives the people that like to read something to study, and those that want to ignore it can do so too. Do you think RoL is fake-claiming scum or real Miller? Do you think I'm scum because I think RoL is real Miller or not? | ||
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On June 12 2012 12:18 marvellosity wrote: Because I'm so nice gonzaw, I'm just going to lay out a post for other people to read instead of tunnelling you. And I will not be unilaterally shooting you. I don't like your passive-aggressiveness there, but okay I'll respond to it. It will make a fine start to discuss and take sides though. gonzaw completely ignores anything to do with the behaviour, content and mentality, because he has 'never seen scum fake-claim miller in his whole life'. His speculation on how to confirm or otherwise RoL is equally weak, as I note here: I basically saw your case as nitpicking.what RoL said and didn't hold much water. RoL specifically said there were benefits in claiming Miller N1 (I think he meant N0, the one we are at now), which were basically having the cop not publicly claim if he were to check him later. I didn't see anything wrong with what he said, even though it seemed confusing at times (like he was at times berating "plans" regarding Millers and discussions about it, but intertwined it with the benefits of actually claiming). Even if his behaviour was "suspicious" in some way, I'd be glad to ignore it until D1, or until the "real game started" (like I put it), where RoL has to contribute himself, present cases, reads, etc. I made a thorough post on why I thought no scum would claim Miller at all, so yeah as soon as he claimed I didn't take much notice of it and didn't doubt it initially. VE received similar flak when he claimed Miller (with people instantly FoSing him when he did), and that only served to clutter when (because of reasons previously explained) heuristics just show that he's likely town. I actually asked you that thing about RoL because I found you somewhat shady (with your initial aggressiveness and nonchalance in a matter of speaking) , saw that you were talking about Millers and stuff and thus wanted your reaction to it. Before you go asking me what I think of your reaction....I do find it weird indeed. You seem too aggressive, too aggressive compared to the previous games I've played with you. Is there anything specific that made you play like this? So gonzaw ignores all the analysis of RoL's behaviour because he has played in at most 2 games where miller wasn't fake-claimed. He doesn't even bother actually looking at the content of the posts, and dismisses the case multiple times with "there haven't been analysis or cases yet". Yet his sole reason for dismissing was his 1 or 2 out of how many games he's played with self-aware millers. Yes basically that, and because of all the reasons I previously stated on why I think the real GF wouldn't actually claim Miller at all. Saying my "sole" reason for dismissing it is quite an exageration though, considering I've been talking about Miller claims, their benefits and likelihood since my first post or so since the game started. | ||
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On June 12 2012 12:34 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 08:48 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, damn, I really want to start some analysis, but this whole night is just a bunch of discussion about plans If you want to start doing some analysis, you should stop writing about possible plans yourself. Seems kind of contradictory to me. This nightphase is by no means just discussion about plans, in my opinion it is very well possible to analyze someone's behavior already. (Of course a larger sample size is always better, but sometimes you can get a good start with just a little.) Adding to what you were talking about medics, if they find out that they are insane, they should stop protecting VT's unless the 50% chance is crucial for our survival and still having a shot at winning the game for town. I personally don't find people's opinion on certain plans (or policy lynches, etc) alignment telling at all. So no matter how much someone talks and talks about plans, I can't analyze their alignment based on their behaviour, if everybody else is discussing plans as well. Also I was lazy so I didn't want to filter everybody and try to find subtle hints of scumminess (I did do it later and found Dirkzor slighly suspicious, and marv a little bit as well). On June 12 2012 12:34 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 10:30 gonzaw wrote: Yeah I got carried away when I mentioned the watcher He's under scrutiny just by claiming Miller. Mafia may take the chance to shoot him tonight or on N1 just because of the reasons I presented previously. The "real" game hasn't started yet (the analysis and shit), so there's really no behaviour that can convince me Rol is GF (like I said his claim alone makes me think its legit). Anyways I gotta eat so I'll expand later Everyone should be under scrutiny. Not just someone claiming Miller. I don't like how you state that the real game hasn't started yet, and you give an absolute "There is really no behaviour that can convince me RoL is GF", just because in your opinion the game hasn't started yet? Someone claiming Miller will obviously be in the spotlight. I never said he shouldn't be under more scrutiny than someone else, I said that he just was by the nature of his claim, the way it brings attention to himself and sparks people to analyze his actions and behaviour more thoroughly to figure out if he's lying or not. Yes, there is no game-related "behaviour" from RoL to convince me he's GF. RoL hasn't accused anybody yet. He hasn't commented on other cases yet either. He hasn't been part in discussion about other players' behaviour either, and yet he hasn't been absent from those either. The only thing he did was give his opinion on some setup talk, about Miller plans, and claimed Miller. There's no way you can figure out his alignment with that, because (like I said) it's not alignment-telling. Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote: Yeah I'm not really putting too much effort this game for now (other than just coming up with a plan of action). Why not? You talked about how you want to get to analyze stuff but then you keep just talking about random plans when you didn't really want to. That doesn't make any sense to me. Where's the enthusiasm? ...because I'm not? Really? What kind of question is that? I was lazy, had to do some work for uni, was spending time and effort in the other mafia game I am, and wasn't in the mood to put a lot of effort in this game, specially since there wasn't much to motivate me to do so (i.e there weren't any meaningful discussions going on, just talk about the setup). Show nested quote + Mostly because I expect to get shot tonight, so anything I do would basically be pointless (I knew that in pre-game though). .... I don't even know what to say to this. You don't even know your role pre-game, why would you expect to get shot on N0 before the game has even started? I don't like that attitude at all. You can't play mafia going into the game thinking "I'm going to die soon anyway so anything I do is pointless." You have to make the best out of it while you are alive. If you die and are a townie, you better have made the time you were alive count for your teammates to take the game for you. Because I had the feeling I would. I've been shot N1 in 2 out of 3 games I've been town...and in like 90% of the games I've been town in UG mafia. Knowing that and knowing that there wasn't going to be any meaningful discussion going on (that wasn't related to the setup) it just disheartens you a little bit and doesn't put you in the right mood. Show nested quote + And no, the "real" game hasn't started because there's basically nothing to analyze or to respond to. There aren't any cases, or people's thoughts on other players, and I'm lazy to check each filter to try and gauge a read out of people just by their opinion on the plans presented. Every post is analyzable or respondable. It may not be useful in every case, but there is certainly a lot to go by already. If there aren't any cases, you can make one. If people don't post their thoughts yet, you can ask for them. What's up with this sudden lazyness of yours? See above. Again, I don't think plan posts and opinions are alignment telling at all (without taking into account their context. If someone is still talking about plans in D3 of course you can analyze it). Also, nice of you to bring up the usual "pro-town" speech that's brought up D1 every game (or N0 this one). What do you think of marv's aggressiveness towards RoL and me Cephiro? | ||
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On June 12 2012 12:52 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 12:42 gonzaw wrote: [ Yes basically that, and because of all the reasons I previously stated on why I think the real GF wouldn't actually claim Miller at all. Saying my "sole" reason for dismissing it is quite an exageration though, considering I've been talking about Miller claims, their benefits and likelihood since my first post or so since the game started. Yes, it is interesting, given your view on this. Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 10:14 gonzaw wrote: I don't find him suspicious mostly because of the claim itself (I've never seen scum fake-claim Miller in my whole life, and I doubt I will). That seems to be your view, that it's practically impossible. Funny then, that your first major post is entirely about discussing millers and the possibilities of scum fake-claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 17:25 gonzaw wrote: Please everybody don't make a L plan to shoot a townie 5 minutes into D1. If you think someone is scum and really want to shoot them...you can always shoot them later (if everybody follows this trail of thought we'll have normal days). Okay people, if we have a Miller, do they claim tonight or tomorrow? If they claim tonight, and we have a cop the cop won't check them, but if they don't claim tonight there' s a chance the cop will. If they claim tonight however, there's a chance scum will shoot them because of their "semi-confirmed" status (i.e scum never fake-claim Miller, so someone claiming Miller is 80% telling the truth). Oh wait, here's the plan: Miller, as soon as D1 starts, claim and you'll be the one in charge of shooting on D1 My plan goes like this: First of all, a Miller claim will avoid a cop checking him subsequent nights. Second, the Miller can shoot at day, therefore we can use him to choose the D1 shot. Third, like said before the Miller is "semi-confirmed" because in average scum never fake-claim Miller, and they will most likely not do it today. Why? Because then the Godfather will be the one forced to fake-claim Since the plan is for the Miller to shoot on D1, and the only scum that can do so is the GF, then only him can fake-claim Miller (if any other scum claims Miller, they'll get instantly caught once they refuse to shoot). So, let's imagine the GF fake-claims Miller, what then? Then there is another Miller or there isn't: 1) There is another Miller claim: Then there will be a counterclaim; and one of them will basically be confirmed scum (the chances of 2 Millers is EXTREMELY low). We then let them shoot each other. If the real Miller is faster, great he'll shoot the GF and we'll live happily ever after. If the GF is faster, well then we can kill the GF the next day/night. 2) There is no other Miller claim: In this case, although we may take him as "confirmed" for a while, he'll be in the spotlight for quite a while. Not only that, we can make a tracker track him at night, that way we can catch him as GF. After we get rid of the GF, then catching the remaining scum will be easy if we all claim if we have a gun (and can shoot) or not. Those that claim they have a gun take turns in shooting each day (to actually confirm they have a gun) into the group that claimed they didn't have a gun (of course shooting those we think are actually scum from that group, not shooting our freaking blues >_>). So, if the GF claims Miller there is a high chance he'll get fucked, therefore I don't think he will. Therefore I think we can trust a Miller claim tomorrow, and in the worst case we'll get a tracker on him at N2. So people, this is the plan I was thinking of, do you agree or not?: To Miller:
To Town:
To Tracker the next night:
If we don't have any Millers it will be apparent soon (before the 24 hours or so) since everybody will post but there will be no claim. If that happens, then after the 24 or so hours normal VTs are allowed to shoot. The purpose of this plan is:
Of course this means everybody would follow the plan (those that have a gun and those that don't), so we are guaranteed to have some D1 time to discuss So people, what do you think? Observation: Maybe the SK can fake-claim Miller, since he can shoot at Day. However, the SK is forced to shoot at night, therefore a tracker on him WILL catch him. Also, since a "confirmed" Miller is bad reputation for scum, scum are likely to shoot the Miller claim, so the chances of scum shooting the SK will increase, blowing his cover once he survives the hit (and no medic claims his save). Basically, the SK fake-claiming Miller will let us/scum catch him sooner or later, and doing so to get the D1 shot (why would he want the D1 shot?) and a little confirmed status for a while isn't worth it for him. Observation2: There is a chance we don't have a tracker. In which case we can't confirm the Miller. First of all, the point is that scum don't know if we have a tracker either, so by having the GF fake-claim Miller they risk we actually having one. Second, even if we don't have a tracker, the GF will still be in the spotlight, because town will assume the tracker tracked him and got a "good" result (i.e that he didn't visit anyone), but the "Miller" claim will keep being alive throughout the whole game. This will mean that one day or the other the Miller-fake-claiming-Godfather will fall; so again it's not very convenient for him to do so That's an awful lot of effort to go to to explain something you think will never happen 'in your lifetime', don't you think? Why are you being this aggressive and "in-your-face" on purpose? Really? "That's an awful lot of effort to go to explain something you think will never happen 'in your lifetime', don't you think?" ? That's the best you can come up with to discredit me? I doubt I even need to explain why you are just nit-picking and stretching things out + Show Spoiler [Just in case I do] + Yes, I know mafia are less likely to fake-claim Miller, and will most likely not this game. I need to express why I think that wouldn't you think? It's not like I can say "Yeah mafia will never fake-claim thanks bye!" and just drop the subject. | ||
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Of course, if someone took a hit claim, until someone does I'll assume all KP is accounted for. It seems weird there was only 1 night kill, because of this: Serial Killer - Lone wolf. You must survive until the end of the game and eliminate both Town,Mafia and any other factions. At night you are bulletproof and can't be shot. You also show up as Innocent to role checks. You can kill at Night OR Kill during the day. You must kill at Night or the following Day or else I will mod kill you. Check the bolded. If there is a SK this game, and he didn't shoot last night, he HAS to shoot today. If we go forward with the "RoL the claimed Miller should shoot" plan (and RoL isn't SK of course), then the SK will be forced to shoot himself and out himself. He can just shoot soon though and pass it off as a mistake and try to hide it though. Again the other possibility is that he did indeed shoot last night but was RBed, or his hit was saved by a Medic/Vet. Or again there's the possibility he doesn't exist I doubt that though, 4 scum in a 20 player game with only 1 KP seems too little for a game like this. It's likely there is a SK, just like in the previous Bang Bang Mafia game. | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:18 chaoser wrote: or mafia didn't shoot Why wouldn't they? They have to kill either 12 townies or 11 townies and 1 SK to win, I'm sure they'll take any chance to kill townies they get. On June 12 2012 13:15 chaoser wrote: gonzaw, if you want to dispell the suspicions on you, I'd suggest you just shoot No I won't, not until 24 or more hours have passed at least | ||
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Anyways people, be sure to chime in and post your thoughts on RoL and marv's "case" against me please. Dirkzor I want your opinion the most. | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:24 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + This is a Dirty South set-up also known as a day killing game. The way this works is that almost everyone can kill another player in the game by typing ##kill(##Kill): player in the thread. If possible I will kill that player and the game moves on to night phase. There are No Lynches in this format so there is no voting. Day ends when someone kills. If SK didn't kill at night, he is forced to shoot in the morning or else he is modkilled. His shot will also end the day. So, as you can see, SK WANTS to shoot at night unless he knows he will be forced by town to shoot the next morning. Yes, what you say makes sense. But mafia not shooting on N0 doesn't make much sense either. It must mean there is an absorbed KP out there, or RoL is SK (knew he could convince us to let him shoot today, which is why he wouldn't shoot at night). Hmm, I doubt RoL would risk it that much as SK though, so I'll wait to see if someone claims they were shot. | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:26 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:21 MrZentor wrote: The post says that the days ends when the first person is killed. Couldn't we just keep talking but not kill anybody for a few days? Pretty sure 1) We'll run out of things to say or just go in circles 2) Ace will probably put a limit on like 48 hours and then we just "no shot" and move straight to night 3) Someone will probably get trigger happy and shoot anyway. I want gonzaw to shoot. We already had 24 hours of discussion since night 0 happened, we've got our suspicions. Let's go gonzaw, chop chop. Why do you think I'm scummy then? I won't shoot at least until half a day has passed and it's been consensus that I have to shoot. On June 12 2012 13:28 wherebugsgo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:16 gonzaw wrote: Either our Medic is not sane, he doesn't exist or he wasn't doing his job as intended (saving claimed VTs). Of course, if someone took a hit claim, until someone does I'll assume all KP is accounted for. It seems weird there was only 1 night kill, because of this: Serial Killer - Lone wolf. You must survive until the end of the game and eliminate both Town,Mafia and any other factions. At night you are bulletproof and can't be shot. You also show up as Innocent to role checks. You can kill at Night OR Kill during the day. You must kill at Night or the following Day or else I will mod kill you. Check the bolded. If there is a SK this game, and he didn't shoot last night, he HAS to shoot today. If we go forward with the "RoL the claimed Miller should shoot" plan (and RoL isn't SK of course), then the SK will be forced to shoot himself and out himself. He can just shoot soon though and pass it off as a mistake and try to hide it though. Again the other possibility is that he did indeed shoot last night but was RBed, or his hit was saved by a Medic/Vet. Or again there's the possibility he doesn't exist I doubt that though, 4 scum in a 20 player game with only 1 KP seems too little for a game like this. It's likely there is a SK, just like in the previous Bang Bang Mafia game. please kill this guy, the bolded is scummy as hell ...no it isn't...? Anything constructive to say wbg? Could you at least post a semi-legitimate reason for thinking I'm scum? There are some "veteran" players I want to chime in soon (before someone shoots me and we end this thing too early). On June 12 2012 13:30 VisceraEyes wrote: FreelanceSatan was Coagulation. Factor that in. Yeah he was. Shouldn't have claimed VT with gun on N0 though, specially considering he seemed pretty townie. VE, what do you think about RoL and this uprising against me? On June 12 2012 05:20 supersoft wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 04:55 FreelanceSatan wrote: On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already... yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho? because we probably got a LOT of blues. + In an optimal scenario, we really could benefit from a Millermassclaim D1 NOT N1.... Great supersoft, do you have anything to say about RoL's claim? Ehm, you can also chime in with this talk about me getting shot or shooting today. Ehh I still don't get why a lot of people want me dead now (rastaban seemed to jump on the wagon as well), but unless something definitive is brought I'll just ignore it for now. Not what I'd like for D1, but it brings discussion and forces people to take stances, so it's good. For instance rastaban, what are your thoughts on this? Meapak and kitaman are welcomed to post their thoughts as well. | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote: If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person. If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow. Now that I look at it, here's our 1st candidate for SK that didn't shoot last night. A wbg SK makes sense to me. He seems to just be trolling (posting pointless videos, one-liners, etc) and barely trying, and just wants to attack me at all costs without even stating reasoning behind it. Are you SK wbg? If I was going to be today's kill, would you agree to let someone else take the shot? | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:54 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Well I was shot last night but survived. I also had my gun taken away which is quite interesting. How the hell can that happen? Did Ace tell you how it did? Well...RoL being SK, not shooting last night so he can shoot today, but claiming he got his gun taken away so he can't actually shoot and he'll get modkilled is implausible. If scum have a "Gun stealer", then this is pretty shitty. Unless they can steal the guns of players that haven't used their shot yet, they can steal the gun from any VT that shoots each day. (Pre-Edit: It would make sense as an SK ability though) RoL, do you agree with me dying today or not? On June 12 2012 14:07 wherebugsgo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:51 gonzaw wrote: On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote: If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person. If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow. Now that I look at it, here's our 1st candidate for SK that didn't shoot last night. A wbg SK makes sense to me. He seems to just be trolling (posting pointless videos, one-liners, etc) and barely trying, and just wants to attack me at all costs without even stating reasoning behind it. Are you SK wbg? If I was going to be today's kill, would you agree to let someone else take the shot? so because I'm suspicious of you, there was only one shot last night, and I volunteered to shot your red ass, your first thought is for me to be SK? Pretty convoluted shit, it's nice to know only townies are capable of understanding Occam's Razor. No, because you are trolling, FoSing me out of nowhere without reasoning, and yes volunteering to shoot my ass. If RoL is telling the truth it can't happen though, so let's just forget about it. So, I think they did this in Bang Bang Mafia 1 and it might work: What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not? Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there). I think they did it like this: 1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not 2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public): Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list. That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun). This is the beauty from the plan: Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues.... ...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game. Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day. Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made). So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group. Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK. Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use: 1)Their medic saves on the gunners 2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners 1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them 2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later. That was the way it would work in the 1st game. Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy? No this isn't me trying to divert attention or anything, I still want a fucking explanation why I'm being considered the D1 lynch by everybody yet when I ask why everybody stays silent | ||
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On June 12 2012 14:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 14:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On June 12 2012 13:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Had your gun taken away? Is that real? Did you just say that? :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Yeah, interesting though. So the mafia have additional powers to take away a gun. Although this is interesting. If the mafia have the power to take away my gun why would they do that while trying to kill me? Someone tried to kill me and someone tried to take my gun. I can see why the SK would have that power, he is bulletproof at night but needs a way to survive day hits as well so that is definitely a possibility. I find it interesting that the SK would use that power on me since he needs as many people to die as fast as possible and taking my gun would just make me look a bit guilty. The only way that would make sense is if my first accusation was right and toad was the SK. That is essentially the purpose of that power. On the same note that would make the SK really powerful, but the set up makes him really weak to day shooting. I would say that would make up for the SK's shortcomings in the current set up so it is probably the most likely. On the otherhand the mafia has 4 members and I'm sure that could be a power that is functionally a day RB. You claimed Miller. People wanted millers to shoot first to prove they're a miller. If they take your gun away, it makes you look like scum because you can't shoot. Or, you're faking someone taking your gun away because you're scum who fake-claimed Miller. The hit could be a fake, or maybe a medic protected you and SK shot you. There's lots of possibilities here. I'm not taking your claim at face-value. Would you mind typing shoot into the thread so that we know you actually don't have a weapon? That at least tells us you aren't a lying town or scum that can shoot. Also VE, you never responded at all to my FOS. Not in the mood? I second this. Of course choose to shoot yourself (if you are lying scum/SK, at least you'll shoot yourself) | ||
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Also, I thought this would be the "perfect" game to enforce those "Lynch All Lurkers" policy lynches you guys have been talking about. Yet nobody even mentioned it at all this game | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:21 MrZentor wrote: The post says that the days ends when the first person is killed. Couldn't we just keep talking but not kill anybody for a few days? You. What do you think about the things being discussed until now? I don't like how you made that post when the day started but ignored everything that went on on n0 before it ended If I am to be shot I'd like it to be from MrZentor (at least for now) | ||
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Why do you want me killed again? | ||
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He doesn't play like that (I don't think he plays like that as scum either, although I only skimmed through Magic (was it?) where he was), and I found it odd. Perhaps he's trying to emulate Blazinghand or something... | ||
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On June 12 2012 15:17 wherebugsgo wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 15:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Your interactions with marv were scummy. He was asking what I thought were reasonable (if a little sarcastic) questions, and you respond by accusing him of being "in your face" and aggressive. I mean...I don't know, it seemed like you wanted to make him out to be suspicious for being suspicious of you....which is suspicious. which is pretty interesting given that this is exactly how he reacted to me suspecting him. It's also how he acted in Liar Game with Cephiro. Now you don't go and lie for your own convenience there I FoSed Cephiro first in that game and then he flipped his shit afterwards.. ....if you are somehow comparing your game here to Cephiro's game in Liar Game then I don't think you are making yourself look any good. I think you are suspicious because you seem to troll (at first); and then just accuse someone, but without the intent to produce any meaningful discussion about it or drive town forward. It's just the typical "Self I don't know if you would act like this as scum, which is why I suspected you of being SK. You are just acting like those self-centered vets that try to do the bare minimum in a game and act all mighty and shit. So get the fuck down to earth and act normal. | ||
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I knew this would happen....but I didn't think it would happen so soon. Damn, I guess I need to smurf from now on | ||
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[again, that's not the sole reason I believed scum wouldn't fake-claim, read my posts] I thought my stance on this sort of things was pretty apparent from my behaviour in past Obs QTs (specially regarding previous claims from you ), but well. | ||
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On June 13 2012 00:41 chaoser wrote: Point of the matter is, no one was going to agree with it, especially not the person I was asking to do it since everyone has come out against "shooting early". My asking him to do it though, does bring out a shit ton of pressure. First of all, to gonzaw, given his stances so far, I should be appearing extremely scummy to ask him to shoot immediately and he should be all over me trying to pressure me about why I was doing something that he SHOULD be considering to be scummy. But he doesn't. Instead he starts focusing on the SK when he SHOULD be focusing on mafia. "RoL is SK, no wait, WBG is SK." He's not responding back to my asking him to shoot; in fact he's taken a passive stance to it "I will only shoot if everyone wants me to". Given what he had said previously (and his play in previous games), he SHOULD be acting like zentor, but instead he's backing away from my pressure. Well I'm turning on the full pressure now. Gonzaw, you can shoot me if you want, let's see it. Or do you want to say you don't think I'm scummy? The beautiful thing about this game is that everyone can act on their reads if they want. That means mafia can't just go off making cases against people because in the end, they would be forced to back it up (shoot). That puts a lot of restrictions on mafia. Townies however, don't have that restriction; to be sure, townies are somewhat restricted but they are not as restricted as mafia. So to pressure them to shoot their suspicions, is one very good way to catch mafia. If they can't respond, then they're mafia since they can't shoot. I don't find you suspicious because of the way you've been pushing it and the way you are trying to pressure me. I do want to know why exactly you find me scummy though. Oh and sorry I won't be able to have the pleasure to shoot you, but thanks for outing me as blue on n0! I don't have a gun Here I'll prove it: #Kill: gonzaw I won't claim my role though, that would only create more shitstorm. | ||
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On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum. So just shoot him. See what I'm saying? Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts. I didn't want to out myself as blue so soon just because 1 guy (you) was buggering me about shooting. *sigh* Right I see how fucking suspicious this looks now. Okay people, if you really want me dead, at least let us do this: Try to find someone else suspicious that should shoot me If I'm to be the D1 shot, at least I want to catch other goons/RBers before I die. For now I still think Zentor could be one of those. He spent the whole n0 and beginning of d1 trying to blend in with filler, but didn't post anything about what he thought. But now he is suddenly coming to my rescue out of nowhere, and I find that odd. Scum already know that I'm town (if I was SK I'd not shoot last night and shoot today), so it's easy for them to come up with reasons to defend me. Yes, it's not infallible, but it makes me a little bit suspicious of him. Another player I'd want to shoot me is wbg, but to be honest I doubt he's scum at this point (I thought he was SK initially, but well that was before RoL's claim). I don't think he's "not GF" type of scum because of him volunteering to shoot me, so I don't want him to shoot me now. I'd want him to shoot at least once in the game though...just in case this was a scheme of his as goon to avoid shooting. I'll reread and try to come up with someone else to do it. | ||
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On June 13 2012 03:15 supersoft wrote: full claim or i shoot you in the next minutes. No you shouldn't shoot me, someone else would. I'll claim my full role the minute someone puts ##Kill: gonzaw in the thread. Posting info about my role before would only serve to cause more shitstorm, and if I'm somehow kept alive to cause even more shitstorm (with RBs and stuff) later. | ||
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If I claim Medic for instance let me assure you it will cause a shitstorm with people still wanting to shoot me, but people wanting to save me. It's better to just forget about it and not let it come into play. | ||
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We still have time though, a lot of people haven't posted yet (risknuke, kitaman I think), and some people still haven't posted their actual thoughts on this scenario (Toad I think). | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:38 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote: If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person. If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow. I support this! On June 12 2012 22:40 rastaban wrote: The following People need to post, they are very inactive, and if they have said anything it is only a few one liners. risk.nuke Kenpachi payl gonzaw I don't see him for mafia, but I don't have a problem with making him shoot someone else if it will lessen the distracting discussion on him. So far the biggest arguments against him have been that he supported ROL and that he claimed He hadn't seen a Mafia fake a miller claim before. To me he doesn't seem scum at all, and most of the case is hinged on defending ROL, If ROL is really a miller then all the discussion seems moot. ROL Controversy, We still have no other Millers claiming, and until we get some other contenders I am very inclined to believe ROL. There should have been 2 hits last night (mafia & SK), and only 1 went down. Unless someone else claims to have been protected I see no reason to disbelieve this. I lean towards an SK 1 shot power as if it is reuseable it would be way over powered, I think we keep an eye on him and see how things progress. If the Mafia tried to shoot him, and an SK tried to remove the gun, then I think we should hold off on killing him for a bit since there must be a reason so many people tried to hit him last night. Again if more Millers come forward then I agree we should re-evaluate the claim but for now I think his play seems town and we should hold off a final judgment for him. Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on? On June 13 2012 02:06 rastaban wrote: I say we have Gonzaw shoot payl. We find out if Gonzow has a gun and if he does, we off the single post Smurf. I have a feeling at least one if not more of the mafia are in the lurking crowd intentionally or not and it is causing confusion in the Mafia ranks. If gonzaw won't fire lets let chaoser kill him. What is exactly your stance on me? First you want me to shoot or have wbg shoot me. However then you say I'm most likely town. Yet now all of a sudden you want chaoser to shoot me? Wtf man? | ||
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On June 13 2012 03:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I don't want to have anyone shoot until RoL comes in and proves he's not lying. He can shoot Gonzaw if he likes. Also, Gonzaw, shoot again with the right formatting. I already did read the thread | ||
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He flip-flops on his read on me, or just head-on contradicts himself by saying I'm town but he wants someone else to shoot me. Oh yeah, he wants someone else to shoot me (first wbg, then chaoser). He never volunteers himself to shoot. Anyways, if all of you guys think claiming is better then I will, but I want to avoid VE-like scenarios this game. | ||
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On June 13 2012 03:38 rastaban wrote: @gonzaw But the whole point is that you can't shoot. I thought you could shoot, so now that you can't and you have this many accusations on you it is time to kill you. Claim your role if you are town. I don't want my role to create more chaos. If I'm being shot (someone puts ##Kill: gonzaw in the thread), then I'll claim my role. But until then it will only serve to distract people (they'll start thinking "Oh what if his claim is real? Oh what if we let him live and bla bla bla?"). In the off-chance I survive this (not likely), then scum won't know my role either. rastaban, if it came down to it, would you shoot me? You say "so now that you can't and you have this many accusations on you it is time to kill you...." So, it is time to kill me because I have accusations against me...but not because you think I'm scum? Also, me having a gun or not had nothing to do with your "town" read on me. | ||
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On June 13 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw why did you act as if you had a gun N0 when chaoser first introduced the notion that you should shoot today? I know you never explicitly said one way or the other, but you never even opposed the idea of you shooting. On June 13 2012 03:15 gonzaw wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote: On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum. So just shoot him. See what I'm saying? Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts. I didn't want to out myself as blue so soon just because 1 guy (you) was buggering me about shooting. What do you guys think of rastaban? @Wiggles: I think rastaban was talking about me and not RoL, but I'm not really sure | ||
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On June 13 2012 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 04:02 gonzaw wrote: On June 13 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw why did you act as if you had a gun N0 when chaoser first introduced the notion that you should shoot today? I know you never explicitly said one way or the other, but you never even opposed the idea of you shooting. On June 13 2012 03:15 gonzaw wrote: On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote: On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote: But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum. So just shoot him. See what I'm saying? Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts. I didn't want to out myself as blue so soon just because 1 guy (you) was buggering me about shooting. What do you guys think of rastaban? @Wiggles: I think rastaban was talking about me and not RoL, but I'm not really sure But you're the guy who was pushing the idea of all guns outting N0, thereby outting all blues. You were the one saying this should be an analysis game. This is a blatant contradiction in your philosophies. When did I say that? I said that on D1 not N0 On June 13 2012 04:03 rastaban wrote: Sorry gonzaw I won't tell you if I have a gun or not, Scum is already trying to snipe our VEs as it is, you will just have to wait and see. If everybody says that when we try and force them to shoot me...then nobody would shoot me at all (that would be nice, but we wouldn't find any scum with it). You are still avoiding the issue: Why does the fact that I don't have a gun make you think I'm scum, when your town read on me never hinged on the fact that I had a gun? | ||
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On June 13 2012 04:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I wouldn't mind supersoft shooting gonzaw. I don't want to put it on a lurker who may or may not come back, I'd rather just shoot into those guys if we want to get a read on them. supersoft already made it apparent he wanted to shoot me. It's very likely he has a gun (whether VT or GF/SK). Same as wbg Unless you say that they are goons and this is a reverse-psychology-WIFOMy plan of theirs to appear they have a gun so we assume they do and they never shoot...they do have a gun. Any of those lurkers shooting me is alright, although I'd prefer rastaban doing it (or Zentor in any case). You guys are still fucking ignoring me: What do you think of rastaban? | ||
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On June 13 2012 04:14 wherebugsgo wrote: hahahaha My favorite people: marvellosity chaoser illiterate fools: Cephiro some others I can't be arsed to find again scum: gonzaw zentor kitaman some lurking asshole #1 some lurking asshole #2 If RoL shows up and contributes something decently he's probably town. His posting style has not been scummy to me, but the fact that all he did was use the misformatted post and then run away during a 24 hour day is rather suspicious. As there is no counter miller claim I find it unlikely he is scum, but it's possible we don't even have a miller. We need more time for RoL to post to actually know his alignment. For once I agree with you (replace me with rastaban from that list). I'm not that sure of marv, but he's being confident and perhaps too aggressive to be scum. Still, keep an eye on him. Keep an eye on Cephiro as well, I think he would be more active and contribute more if he was town. On June 13 2012 00:23 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote: If you really want to shoot me or something at least wait 24 hours into D1 so you don't waste the whole day and so we can put some sense into you. His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting. I personally don't find people's opinion on certain plans (or policy lynches, etc) alignment telling at all. So no matter how much someone talks and talks about plans, I can't analyze their alignment based on their behaviour, if everybody else is discussing plans as well. This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say. + Show Spoiler + What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not? Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there). I think they did it like this: 1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not 2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public): Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list. That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun). This is the beauty from the plan: Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues.... ...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game. Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day. Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made). So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group. Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK. Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use: 1)Their medic saves on the gunners 2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners 1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them 2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later. That was the way it would work in the 1st game. Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy? This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it. Also, something I found along the way. Pretty sure 1) We'll run out of things to say or just go in circles 2) Ace will probably put a limit on like 48 hours and then we just "no shot" and move straight to night 3) Someone will probably get trigger happy and shoot anyway. I want gonzaw to shoot. We already had 24 hours of discussion since night 0 happened, we've got our suspicions. Let's go gonzaw, chop chop. Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion. That's exactly what scum would want to happen. Regarding the plan of guns and not guns claiming, don't you think even the mafia without guns will claim they have guns (maybe 1 won't) so we just end up shooting all our blues for a few days? We don't know how many blues town has so we won't even know if mafia is the group. I don't see how that plan helps anything it isn't like the goons are going to admit they have no guns. We end up have some people claiming to have guns, who don't have guns, but how do we decide who it is? We are back to square 1 but now they know which townies have guns and who doesn't so they can shoot acordingly. We just give them even more information while we are just as confused as before. Unless I am missing something this is a very bad plan, plus we should worry less about plans and more about about posts. I agree Chaoser trying to push the shot so fast was very very bad. Chaoser, why did you want to stifle so much discussion? Just because I think this plan is good for town, I'll respond to this: If mafia without guns claim they have guns....then at some point they'll have to prove they have by shooting. If we make the process of determining who shoots random (with Palmar's site or something similar), then they won't be able to control AT ALL when they'll shoot. If they claim they have a gun, they may be chosen to shoot the next day and they'll fuck up. Not only that, but if we have like 18 gun claims and only 2 non-gun claims, we'll know something is wrong and that those 2 that claimed non-gun are most likely real blues. Of course if there's scummy people that claim they have a gun we could force them to shoot (by voting or something). It was followed on Bang Bang Mafia 1 (although town lost that game ) Like I said the problem I'd find is with the "gun-stealing" mechanic (if RoL tells the truth)...but that one is going to be around no matter what, and nobody even seemed to answer me of the implications of it (can't improve a plan if nobody is there to criticize it nor approve it). If it comes down to me (I'm sure everybody will ignore me); this should be the order of people shooting me:
As in, the 1st one from that list shoots me, if he can't the 2nd one shoots, etc. Right now I'm leaving home, but I'll be back in a couple of hours (2 at most). So if you want me to claim or something please don't shoot until then. If someone shoots until then please held them accountable for it. If I don't come back in 3 or 4 hours or sorts (if you think I'm "disappearing so I damp discussion" or some shit) then yes shoot me then but that won't happen unless I'm kidnapped or something | ||
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On June 13 2012 04:26 supersoft wrote: OKAY WAIT: Gonzaw I have this figured out. I want you to claim now. I have a rough idea what i want you to claim. If you fail you're guaranteed dead. Go for it. If you're town claim. If what I think you think is true, then yes I claim that (you know what I mean) I'm leaving now though (if I have to claim I'll claim when I come back). REally, I don't have time I realy have to be going :/ | ||
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That's what I'll say for now (Sorry dude, I'm in a real hurry and I don't want to make a mistake or something by claiming in a rush) | ||
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Hopefully I wasn't shot yet | ||
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On June 13 2012 04:38 Toadesstern wrote: you remember what you said about the shitstorm? what you're doing is way more shitstormy than any claim could ever be. Just tell us or don't but don't do such a middle thing that makes everyone wonder what it might be... Well apparently it is. *sigh* I just wanted people to ignore the "what's your role" thing from my claim, but I guess that's not possible. Okay then, I'll claim. I am a Macho Cop with Balls of Steel Macho: All protections fail on me (partly why I told medics to not protect blues) Cop: Self-explained Balls of Steel: Ace will make some sweet flavour once I die. Last night I checked supersoft, got Innocent I breadcrumbed it here: On Post #324 of this game gonzaw wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 05:20 supersoft wrote: On June 12 2012 04:55 FreelanceSatan wrote: On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already... yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho? because we probably got a LOT of blues. + In an optimal scenario, we really could benefit from a Millermassclaim D1 NOT N1.... Great supersoft, do you have anything to say about RoL's claim? Ehm, you can also chime in with this talk about me getting shot or shooting today. Ehh I still don't get why a lot of people want me dead now (rastaban seemed to jump on the wagon as well), but unless something definitive is brought I'll just ignore it for now. Not what I'd like for D1, but it brings discussion and forces people to take stances, so it's good. My reasoning was this: I can't be Naive, therefore if I get a green check on someone that flips town, my sanity is confirmed to be Sane I thought scum would try to shoot supersoft last night, so I checked him hoping to get a green check if he died (thus confirm me as Sane if I was). I thought about checking RoL, and I thought he'd get shot by scum, but me checking him wouldn't confirm my santity like I wanted. If I checked RoL, he came back Guilty and he died and flipped Miller, I wouldn't know if I was Sane or Paranoid. If I got an Innocent check I'd be confirmed Insane though, but since it's more likely I'm Sane (all cops are more likely to be Sane in these kind of setups) I knew I'd most likely get a guilty check out of him, which is why I tried to check someone else most likely to get shot. Didn't think Coag would get shot though :/ I guess I should have seen it coming after he claimed he had a gun, but I didn't think a freaking smurf would get shot n0. Also, since it's more likely I'm Sane, it's more likely supersoft is actual town (specially considering he was so eager to shoot me...something kind of hard to fake if he was goon since he has to take a shot sometime in the future). Of course he could be SK/GF, but again it's less likely (don't take this as absolute truth though). So, apparently payl won't shoot me. It's okay though rastaban, would you kindly take a shot on me? If I die and you didn't shoot me I give permission to town to hunt your ass as soon as possible So if people agree, please let rastaban take the shot | ||
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On June 13 2012 07:10 supersoft wrote: don't buy it. wbg, VE what do we do? Let rastaban shoot me Seriously how is this so hard? | ||
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I'll make a more "compact" case in a few minutes, but just check my filter and check the reasons why I'm suspicious of him. | ||
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On June 13 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Why, by your estimation, was supersoft someone you "thought would get shot overnight" gonzaw? I saw him play on LV (I think?) and he seemed pretty good as town, and I think scum would have known that. He's also a "vet", making him an obvious shot N0. I was thinking to check these: -supersoft -wbg -Toad -VE -Meapak I was trouble thinking about supersoft or wbg...but after wbg started to troll and play retardedly I didn't want to risk wbg actually being scum and not getting shot at night so I choose supersoft. On June 13 2012 07:15 Toadesstern wrote: What about shooting payle instead of gonzaw? If he's truely a DT I can live with him being alive and mafia can't because they don't want him to get more checks because the moment we see his flip we know wether or not we can trust him. If he's mafia and survives n1 we shoot him tomorrow? This is the shitstorm I was talking about *cue everybody shitting on each other whether they let me live only because of my claim or not* Oh, I'm also getting RBed tonight. Anyways, case on rastaban coming up... | ||
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On June 13 2012 07:23 Toadesstern wrote: [/red]Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 07:20 rastaban wrote: On June 13 2012 07:15 Toadesstern wrote: What about shooting payle instead of gonzaw? If he's truely a DT I can live with him being alive and mafia can't because they don't want him to get more checks because the moment we see his flip we know wether or not we can trust him. If he's mafia and survives n1 we shoot him tomorrow? I like this plan a lot, and with him being macho there isn't even WIFOM on if he is protected. I am guessing they won't hit him either way, but it gives us another check the moment he flips tomorrow. exactly. Noone protects him and he either dies or he doesn't, 1.If he does we get another check that may or may not be bullshit but we kill him the next day and know wether or not we can trust his checks. 2.What's the reasoning for knowing you can't be naive gonzaw? 1. I'll get RBed 2. It's in the OP and I asked Ace for confirmation. | ||
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On June 13 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote: Like at the end of N0, did any of you think scum might shoot supersoft? He was being retarded on purpose most likely. Considering his status I don't see why he couldn't have been shot, specially after his whole "If I was VT I'd like that....am I VT? Maybe I am maybe I'm not" thing that to me basically seemed him taunting scum to shoot him. | ||
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On June 13 2012 07:27 Toadesstern wrote: Actually wait about the RB. We started with n0. Did anyone claim being rb'ed ? wherebugsgo claimed RBed | ||
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On June 12 2012 13:38 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote: If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person. If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow. I support this! Here is the 1st post where he basically takes a stance on something game-related. He says he supports me shooting or wbg shooting me. However, by this point he only posted setup-related fluff. The only thing game-related (who he thinks is scum, etc) was him thinking RoL was most likely Miller if there weren't any counterclaims today. Yet now he all of a sudden jumps on the wagon to shoot me..... On June 12 2012 22:40 rastaban wrote: The following People need to post, they are very inactive, and if they have said anything it is only a few one liners. risk.nuke Kenpachi payl gonzaw I don't see him for mafia, but I don't have a problem with making him shoot someone else if it will lessen the distracting discussion on him. So far the biggest arguments against him have been that he supported ROL and that he claimed He hadn't seen a Mafia fake a miller claim before. To me he doesn't seem scum at all, and most of the case is hinged on defending ROL, If ROL is really a miller then all the discussion seems moot. ROL Controversy, We still have no other Millers claiming, and until we get some other contenders I am very inclined to believe ROL. There should have been 2 hits last night (mafia & SK), and only 1 went down. Unless someone else claims to have been protected I see no reason to disbelieve this. I lean towards an SK 1 shot power as if it is reuseable it would be way over powered, I think we keep an eye on him and see how things progress. If the Mafia tried to shoot him, and an SK tried to remove the gun, then I think we should hold off on killing him for a bit since there must be a reason so many people tried to hit him last night. Again if more Millers come forward then I agree we should re-evaluate the claim but for now I think his play seems town and we should hold off a final judgment for him. Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on? Except he now thinks I'm town and doesn't want to shoot me. It seems like he basically forgot he supported a claim from someone wanting to shoot me. On June 12 2012 22:46 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 22:09 Dirkzor wrote: Well as I also wrote in the Policy lynching thread I'm all for setting up rules like these that enforces a townlike behavior. So no arguement there. But MZ does have a point that whoever shoots are most likely a townie. So we shouldn't just kill them... A point that was no way clear from Kita's post. In other news: I think MrZentor might be scum. Go look at his filter. He very clearly have been following the thread. On June 12 2012 05:26 MrZentor wrote: I never thought of that, Gonzaw. o.0 But he haven't really put any thought in what he have posted. He seems to jut be posting in order to increase his filter. He also seemed to get very defence for no appearrant reason during his only real response in the thread: On June 12 2012 02:30 MrZentor wrote: He was trying to copy my reason for being suspicious of Rastaban, but he confused Rastaban with chaoser. FAIL On June 12 2012 02:34 FreelanceSatan wrote: I just woke up bro. And im not trying to "copy your reason" im agreeing with it. highlighting it and supporting it. You dont like when people support your reads?? On June 12 2012 02:35 MrZentor wrote: There's nothing wrong with copying as long as you do it accurately and add on your own ideas. I have an irrational fear of being misquoted. >.< So any reads MrZentor? Anything? Thanks for bringing this up, I forgot about him. He really needs to start posting content, and he does seem very scummy. I will try and get some time to review some of his other games to see if he is always so useless to town. So....where are those "reviews" you promised? You never mentioned Zentor again On June 13 2012 00:23 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote: If you really want to shoot me or something at least wait 24 hours into D1 so you don't waste the whole day and so we can put some sense into you. His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting. I personally don't find people's opinion on certain plans (or policy lynches, etc) alignment telling at all. So no matter how much someone talks and talks about plans, I can't analyze their alignment based on their behaviour, if everybody else is discussing plans as well. This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say. + Show Spoiler + What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not? Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there). I think they did it like this: 1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not 2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public): Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list. That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun). This is the beauty from the plan: Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues.... ...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game. Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day. Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made). So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group. Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK. Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use: 1)Their medic saves on the gunners 2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners 1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them 2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later. That was the way it would work in the 1st game. Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy? This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it. Also, something I found along the way. Pretty sure 1) We'll run out of things to say or just go in circles 2) Ace will probably put a limit on like 48 hours and then we just "no shot" and move straight to night 3) Someone will probably get trigger happy and shoot anyway. I want gonzaw to shoot. We already had 24 hours of discussion since night 0 happened, we've got our suspicions. Let's go gonzaw, chop chop. Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion. That's exactly what scum would want to happen. Regarding the plan of guns and not guns claiming, don't you think even the mafia without guns will claim they have guns (maybe 1 won't) so we just end up shooting all our blues for a few days? We don't know how many blues town has so we won't even know if mafia is the group. I don't see how that plan helps anything it isn't like the goons are going to admit they have no guns. We end up have some people claiming to have guns, who don't have guns, but how do we decide who it is? We are back to square 1 but now they know which townies have guns and who doesn't so they can shoot acordingly. We just give them even more information while we are just as confused as before. Unless I am missing something this is a very bad plan, plus we should worry less about plans and more about about posts. I agree Chaoser trying to push the shot so fast was very very bad. Chaoser, why did you want to stifle so much discussion? ...except here you talk to Zentor...but instead of trying to figure out Zentor's or my alignment based on Zentor's defense of me....he only dwells on that plan I posted and ignores everything else (of course he says that my plan is shit). On June 13 2012 00:32 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 00:24 chaoser wrote: On June 13 2012 00:01 MrZentor wrote: Do you agree that Chaoser is scummy? I'm ok with gonzaw shooting me right now. Wow that's an incredibly bold claim. Are you that good at picking out scum, because I got a townie vibe so it is quite shocking for me to see someone so certain. Maybe I am being too sure of things I shouldn't be. I had him pegged as stupid Towney for the giant plan that failed due to not even reading the OP. I like to think that ROL is actually the miller so his defense of him seems like something mafia wouldn't due (sticking their neck out for someone else), especially after they apparently tried to hit last night (Missing KP and no one else claiming to have been hit). I haven't seen you give strong arguments for his guilt though(maybe I missed it)... are you swayed by Marv's reasoning or do you have your own? Again, he thinks I'm town, repeating the same thing he said previously (that the only arguments against me are that I defended RoL last night and he didn't think a mafia would do it). On June 13 2012 02:06 rastaban wrote: I say we have Gonzaw shoot payl. We find out if Gonzow has a gun and if he does, we off the single post Smurf. I have a feeling at least one if not more of the mafia are in the lurking crowd intentionally or not and it is causing confusion in the Mafia ranks. If gonzaw won't fire lets let chaoser kill him. So here he jumps on the "let gonzaw shoot or be shot" wagon again...even though he thought I was town. On June 13 2012 03:24 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 03:22 marvellosity wrote: On June 13 2012 03:20 wherebugsgo wrote: Nevermind on the supersoft bit. His most recent 2-3 posts make it far less likely. We should have Zentor shoot gonzaw. Very happy with this I concur with this statement. Now he just straights wants me shot (he concurs on Zentor shooting me). No indication of what changed his town read on me On June 13 2012 03:38 rastaban wrote: @gonzaw But the whole point is that you can't shoot. I thought you could shoot, so now that you can't and you have this many accusations on you it is time to kill you. Claim your role if you are town. So he changed his town read on me to a scum read just because I couldn't shoot. He never specified he thought I was town because I could shoot initially, and afterwards he never specified he thought I was scum because I couldn't shoot (until he was called out on it). He still hasn't contributed on anything else, not even on Zentor as he promised to. He just made his flip-flopping on me, and discussed about Millers and plans...even though it's not N0 anymore. And I think he can't shoot either, because of this: On June 12 2012 13:38 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote: If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person. If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow. I support this! Supports wbg shooting me....not volunteering himself to shoot me. On June 13 2012 02:06 rastaban wrote: I say we have Gonzaw shoot payl. We find out if Gonzow has a gun and if he does, we off the single post Smurf. I have a feeling at least one if not more of the mafia are in the lurking crowd intentionally or not and it is causing confusion in the Mafia ranks. If gonzaw won't fire lets let chaoser kill him. Supports chaoser shooting me...not volunteering himself to shoot me. On June 13 2012 03:24 rastaban wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 03:22 marvellosity wrote: On June 13 2012 03:20 wherebugsgo wrote: Nevermind on the supersoft bit. His most recent 2-3 posts make it far less likely. We should have Zentor shoot gonzaw. Very happy with this I concur with this statement. Supports Zentor shooting me...not volunteering himself to shoot me. On June 13 2012 04:03 rastaban wrote: Sorry gonzaw I won't tell you if I have a gun or not, Scum is already trying to snipe our VEs as it is, you will just have to wait and see. This basically seals it for me, he doesn't have a gun. Not only that, but he's diverting attention off it by saying that scum are sniping "VEs" (I guess he meant VT's). Why does claiming blue have anything to do with sniping VT's? There have been like 5 people that claimed they were VTs already, if scum are sniping VTs at most they'll be "sniping" them, whether you claim you have a gun or not. What difference does it make? This convinced me he has a gun, but his previous behaviour and the fact he's trying to dodge the issue of claiming a gun based on bad reasoning makes me think he's scum. Of course if I'm somehow wrong and he's VT he can change all this by shooting me and proving me wrong. | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 07:42 chaoser wrote: marv, shoot him. I want to see it from you. Especially since you said: Show nested quote + To the bold: I very much want to shoot him. I want this day to come to a conclusion by me shooting him. There's a tonne of ppl who haven't been around today yet though, so I don't want to jump the gun. Forgive the pun and still haven't pulled the trigger after his bullshit claim. Shut up chaoser. Why wouldn't you want rastaban or even payl/other lurker shooting me? marv can prove he's VT by shooting later, wouldn't you want someone more suspicious to prove he's VT first? | ||
gonzaw
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My rastaban case: This convinced me he DOESN'T HAVE a gun, but his previous behaviour and the fact he's trying to dodge the issue of claiming a gun based on bad reasoning makes me think he's scum. | ||
gonzaw
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Cephiro has disappeared as well, not a good sign at all coming from him (whether he's nice and all like in DF2 or just straight up crazy like in Liar Game) | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 07:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: On June 13 2012 07:31 marvellosity wrote: He can't fake a breadcrumb? Look at how much trouble he was in when he made it. Go back and read the thread (this isn't me being aggressive, just asking you to do so) I did go ahead and reread his filter and yours as well for your posts against him. It's pretty convincing stuff and the way that gonzaw is attempting to shift focus onto rastaban away from the people we had previously lined up to kill him is also scummy. Given what I just read and gonzaw's last post I'm down with killing him. I don't want rastaban to shoot though. I think we need to have payl or someone like that shoot since it seems like gonzaw really doesn't want them involved. He really doesn't want Marv involved. He about cried when chaoser suggested it. How about you guys try to make connections about my supposed "scumteam" after you kill me and see I'm scum? (if not you'll waste quite time in doing once I flip town and you are forced to abandon that). I don't want anybody that claimed they have a gun already, AND were eager to shoot me (supersoft, wherebugsgo, marv, chaoser, Toad perhaps), because: 1)It's very unlikely they are "non-GF" scum 2)If they were, they will be forced to shoot later when the pool of suspects has lessened, and they'll get caught there So anybody from that list I posted earlier (check it) is fine to shoot me. I'd prefer rastaban because I think he's scum, but payl/kitaman/Cephiro/etc are all good. Now can someone please tell me their thoughts on rastaban and if you think he's town, or scum? | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 07:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: On June 13 2012 07:45 Toadesstern wrote: yeah I really don't want more good looking people to claim either way. EBWOP This this this this this. We already have several people lined up, let's not give scum more information by dragging more people into this. What information do you give them....? That you want someone else to shoot me? What info would they get out of it? If you choose Zentor to shoot me it's the same thing as if you choose rastaban to shoot me....either he does or doesn't; what other info are you talking about? | ||
gonzaw
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I wouldn't want this to end before Zentor/payl/rastaban attempt to shoot me. | ||
gonzaw
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chaoser...what do you think about rastaban? Also people, once I die please be sure to reread my filter, the plans I made, the accusations I made and take them into account (every time I die everybody completely ignores what I say....except when I accuse a townie and they jump on that accusation (like in LIII ) ) | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 08:00 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I really feel like someone should shoot gonzaw already. This is just horrible. He's trying to get more and more people claiming and everyones growing impatient because the people that are supposed to shoot him are all not here... and it's 1 am in germany... just mentioning There's no way you can't go through this game without someone claiming. If someone shoots me they claim they have a gun...if they fail to shoot me (post the #kill thing and it doesn't work) they claim they don't have a gun. Now I don't get why me trying to get the guy I think is scum (rastaban) to shoot me is a bad thing *sigh* | ||
gonzaw
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It's very likely most scum just lurking away in this list: -kitaman -risknuke -talismania -Cephiro -payl -Zentor (perhaps) -Kenpachi | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 08:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 08:00 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I really feel like someone should shoot gonzaw already. This is just horrible. He's trying to get more and more people claiming and everyones growing impatient because the people that are supposed to shoot him are all not here... and it's 1 am in germany... just mentioning Toad what do you think about having someone who has already claimed to have a gun just to shoot gonzaw now? It would be really nice to get payl or zentor to shoot but the longer this goes on the more idiots are claiming. Ok, let me get this straight: 1)Most likely there are 3 non-GF scum and 1 GF scum 2)The non-GF scum are NOT likely to straight up claim they have a gun and come THIS CLOSE to actually shooting. 3)Because of (2) if someone straight up claims they have a gun and are very close to shooting and he's scum he is most likely GF 4)There are a bunch of VTs this game, way more than there are GFs (which is most likely 1). 5)Because of (4) and (3), if someone straight up claims they have a gun and are very close to shooting it's more likely he's VT and not GF 6)Because of (5) and (1), if someone straight up claims they have a gun and are very close to shooting it's more likely he's town and not scum This whole plan was to force someone we think is scum into shooting, out himself as a non-gunner, and get killed later because of that (because it's more likely he's a non-GF scum than a blue). What benefit is there in forcing someone that because of (6) is more likely town to do so? | ||
gonzaw
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On June 13 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2012 08:01 gonzaw wrote: On June 13 2012 08:00 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I really feel like someone should shoot gonzaw already. This is just horrible. He's trying to get more and more people claiming and everyones growing impatient because the people that are supposed to shoot him are all not here... and it's 1 am in germany... just mentioning There's no way you can't go through this game without someone claiming. If someone shoots me they claim they have a gun...if they fail to shoot me (post the #kill thing and it doesn't work) they claim they don't have a gun. Now I don't get why me trying to get the guy I think is scum (rastaban) to shoot me is a bad thing *sigh* because we think you are mafia and therefor I don't care who you think to be mafia, because again, we think you're mafia. So you don't think I may be bussing rastaban? Remember SoaF where I bussed 2 of my 3 teammates on D1? Dude, I promise you that if I was scum I'd be bussing the hell out of my teammates right now, and rastaban is surely one of them, so go check him out. | ||
gonzaw
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gonzaw
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Fine whatever, have it you way. Just fucking shoot me yourself if nobody is even trying to make this day productive. I'm leaving to the gym and be back in 2 hours or so. | ||
gonzaw
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I'm FoSed in D1 for random reasons even if people think I'm being pro-town, and then everybody ignores what I say just because "you are mafia and we don't listen to mafia". Then after I'm killed they'll say "oh fuck why u so scummy gonzaw?" and then they'll continue to ignore everything I said (and most likely go and lose the game). Should have smurfed along with Coag. | ||
gonzaw
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Okay, doesn't matter (even if this day will be wasted by having chaoser/marv/supersoft shooting me), just take it into account once I flip. Oh yeah, we also have like 10000 lurkers (include top-notch players like kita) that just didn't even try to appear in the thread. Yeah I'm sure there's nothing wrong there, I'm sure ALL scum already posted in the thread and ALL of them claimed they have a gun (/sarcasm) Well, I'm going away so GL town | ||
gonzaw
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(fuck yeah my unlynchable run still continues) | ||
gonzaw
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June 22 2012 07:52 GMT
#1323
ALLAH AALLAH WTF ALLAH Zealos I was so close to sending you obscene things because of your laya shot Also lol Zentor why did you shoot at night? Just abstain from shooting at night and wait for the Day Post to instantly shoot Dirkzor. If Dirkzor shot Rol/Zealos at night, then since you shoot Dirkzor at daytime you'll be 1v1 with Rol/Zealos (the remaining one) at night, but you have your bullet (since it's a new night) so you win. You only lose if Dirkzor shoots you (but you'd lose anyways if this was the case). lol thank god you didn't though EDIT: Seriously omg I thought this was unwinnable for us I guess Zentor shot Dirkzor and Dirkzor shoot Zealos (with that list he sent wbg) right? | ||
gonzaw
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June 22 2012 07:56 GMT
#1324
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gonzaw
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June 22 2012 07:57 GMT
#1325
On June 22 2012 16:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: gg all. I played a pretty bad game but I stand by my supersoft shot. Had cephiro not been killed by the sk and had dirkzor been active the game would have been very winnable due to the town basically freezing up after my shot. Ah well... Supersoft for MVP btw, he had the entire scum team picked out at one point or another with very few errors. If it wasn't for my green check on him nobody would have believed a word he said, so you can give me credit as well. >_> <_< | ||
gonzaw
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June 22 2012 09:30 GMT
#1327
On June 22 2012 18:26 supersoft wrote: OMG Dirkzor had the easywin by roleblocking zentor and shooting rol *facepalm* G_G Show nested quote + On June 22 2012 16:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: gg all. I played a pretty bad game but I stand by my supersoft shot. Had cephiro not been killed by the sk and had dirkzor been active the game would have been very winnable due to the town basically freezing up after my shot. Ah well... Supersoft for MVP btw, he had the entire scum team picked out at one point or another with very few errors. yay thank you ^_^ He was roleblocker!!??? LOL Both Dirkzor and Zentor had like 100% wins each and yet they both lost >_> <_< | ||
gonzaw
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June 22 2012 18:39 GMT
#1347
On June 22 2012 20:11 supersoft wrote: should have happened like this: dirk roleblocks zentor and shoots RoL. Next day: nothing happens, next night: Dirk shoots and roleblocks zentor, next day: nothing, next night: dirk shoots zealos it was a guaranteed win. Zealos had a gun didn't he? His bullet would regenerate at this point wouldn't it? Also yeah if the RB doesn't RB the SK bullet then it wouldn't matter On June 22 2012 21:41 MrZentor wrote: I feel like Dirk should have been replaced, so we would have had a chance of winning... ....you had like 99% chances of winning had you shot at day | ||
gonzaw
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June 23 2012 16:03 GMT
#1362
Meapak in Scum QT gonzaw for scum MVP anyone? Hey!! > : ( | ||
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