EPTZealos can you put the red text aside and give an explanation that relies on more than just a "Vague feeling of oddness"?
Bang Bang Mafia 2 - Page 53
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Zealos can you put the red text aside and give an explanation that relies on more than just a "Vague feeling of oddness"? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:14 layabout wrote: Well i think Toad is making sense. Oh god what have a done?? Due to his last post I am now open to the idea that Mr. Zentor is in fact clueless and not mafia. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:06 Zealos wrote: Toad, looking over your filter is a TON of talking about millers, then talking about whatever is going on without really saying much of use. You're so Mafia to me right now. fine shoot me. If that' a reason to call someone mafia I can't help you other than making clear you know how bad you are by shooting me  | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Have you anything to say about Wiggle's case against you? | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:20 layabout wrote: RoL are you around? Have you anything to say about Wiggle's case against you? I would love to hear his thought son the situation but any case against ROL is absurd right now, he is obviously town at this point. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:22 rastaban wrote: I would love to hear his thought son the situation but any case against ROL is absurd right now, he is obviously town at this point. Do you think it was absurd when he posted it? There was an awful lot going on but Wiggles didn't bat an eyelid. He posted his case and ran to the hills. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:25 MrZentor wrote: So, Toad, you now agree that instead of me shooting you, I should shoot somebody who seems more scummy, right? + Show Spoiler + No I don't. Let's get this over with. If people think I am GF becaue I am bussing both Talis and Payl whatever, I said they're both scummy, I can't even talk back to that because I'm not bussing but they were legit scumreads. If that's really a reason to consider me mafia I will never be able convince you guys becaue you're all tunneling like crazy and will for the rest of the game consider me scummy because of rnd shit like "omfg Toad just shot a mafia, clearly he is bussing his last mafia buddy as well, just like he did with the other 2 guys!" If we're already at this point there's no need to talk back. I'm still sticking with the plan. Shoot me or I'll shoot you. If you are convinced in Payl shoot him. If he flips green I'll shoot you the next day, instantly. If he flips red we're both happy because I was right on 2 reads, which apparently makes me mafia and you're good for the moment because you hit mafia although you look incredible bad. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On June 16 2012 02:47 Toadesstern wrote: What happened yesterday:
Am I really the only one who fails to understand the logic here? Also so far noone (except for Zentor who did the most ridiculous "case" I've ever seen) explained why I am mafia. Well and Supersoft said I am GF because I think Talis and Payl are mafia, because that's clearly the reasonable explanation here. This doesn't add up with what you actually wrote during the end of d2.
The way you are presenting the end of day 2 doesn't align with what actually happened... And that is SUPER scummy! The closest thing you come to calling Talis scum is this: On June 15 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote: the greencheck on you is totally wayne because gonzaws sanity isn't even clear. But yeah it's standing a little aside. He came up with that idea of everyone doing a case each circle and said he'll do that no matter what. I can't see that yet. Seems like he's to lazy to do it which I take for a mafiatreat, especially if suggested to do a case every cycle earlier. That's what I'm talking about. What you pointed out is a null-tell about him because I'm pretty sure he'd do a post like that either way. The fact that he hasn't done something so far however does look like a mafia. But you never actually called him scum. You used words like "mafiatreat" and "it's standing a little aside". If you are town Toad why are you lying about your own actions and what you said? It makes absolutely no sense to me. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
You know when I shoot you, we'll have a 0% chance of getting mafia. Yet when I shoot Payl, if he flips town, I get shot. So you're forcing me to shoot a townsperson. And you don't see a problem with this? | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
Toad never mentioned it was a pregame post until after talis flipped scum. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:41 Dirkzor wrote: This doesn't add up with what you actually wrote during the end of d2.
The way you are presenting the end of day 2 doesn't align with what actually happened... And that is SUPER scummy! The closest thing you come to calling Talis scum is this: But you never actually called him scum. You used words like "mafiatreat" and "it's standing a little aside". If you are town Toad why are you lying about your own actions and what you said? It makes absolutely no sense to me. 2) I called him a null besides telling people I think he is playing more boldly than in PYP (mafia) and that I'm having different vibes because of that. So clearly I had a mafiaread on him if it wasn't the his bold-ness. 3) Talis had the thing pre-written and copy & pasted it no matter of alignment. On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote: the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea? I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances. That's why I said "I'm pretty sure he would have done the same a town in PYP" because he said it's a prewritten post he would have done either way. Remember I was in the mafia QT with him in that game and we were pissed about why he did something that was helping town so badly. That + the fact that Talis explained the situation should have made it clear. I even linked the game... Your final conclusion: I am not lying about my own actions and what I said. You just said that you didn't realize it was a pre-written post he posted the moment the game started. Yes you call me a liar when I say it was not alignment indicating because it was prewritten? Or is it about the "he is scummy except for his sudden boldness" that's making you think it's weird because it's not a "fos" in your books? | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3571 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:14 layabout wrote: Well i think Toad is making sense. Zealos can you put the red text aside and give an explanation that relies on more than just a "Vague feeling of oddness"? Not really. I don't plan on shooting him. Yet. I'll figure it out soon enough. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously. And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:01 Dirkzor wrote: Posting something pregame and posting something after the game have started stating that it was a pregame idea are 2 totally different things. I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously. And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum. Ok, what about "I was mafia with him in a mafia QT were we talked about what we're doing this game and therefore his talked about his #1 post as well and also postgame and he told me, when we were both mafia, that he wrote that post pregame and made it no matter of alignment because he though it's a good idea for town and he wants to get towncred that way" do you not understand? Because frankly that's pretty much confirmed for me. Yeah when a mafiabuddy explains me why he does something I usually take that for granted because I see no reason to lie to a mafiabuddy in a game. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:01 Dirkzor wrote: Posting something pregame and posting something after the game have started stating that it was a pregame idea are 2 totally different things. I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously. And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum. I am sure that Talismania said that he wrote/thought of it before the game began so in a sense it was "pregame" it also follows that it was not related to his alignment or reflective of how he tries to make himself appear town. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:03 Dirkzor wrote: Also you can't say you had a scumread on him "If it wasn't for his boldness". That is clearly a townread from Talis in your book and thus you had conflicting reads making him - as you wrote yourself - a nullread for you. exactly. It is a townvibe, thus everything else, like the fact that he was taking stances without backing them up, just like in PYP has to be a mafiavibe or I would have said "I have that townvibe, therefore I think he is town" and not "I have this one particular thing that's giving me a townvibe but I'm getting vibes in both direction so far so I'd say he's a null right now". That usually reads as suspicious in my book. I lynch people for that reason, just look at VE in my recent games. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Stealing RoL's gun made RoL look very bad since we where unaware of that mechanic. Talismana's flip has made RoL extremely difficult to lynch, and mafia will have known his flip would have caused this, thus the only time mafia could have pushed him would be before talismania dies. Since mafia would be unable to predict the time of his death it would make sense for them to try to lynch RoL early on. One player has ade it his mission to do just that and so; My Finger of suspicion + Show Spoiler + insert slight immature giggling here at the word "finger" + Show Spoiler + and insert is pointed firmly at Mr. Wiggles + Show Spoiler + Early on he spends time discussiung stragety with VE. He advocates millers claiming. He seems very concerned about wasting cycles by letting players shoot recklessly. He agrees with those voicing suspicions against gonzaw commenting about how he shouldn't be focussed on defending himself but on hunting scum. He suggests searching for another suspicios player to shoot gonzaw or for gonzaw to shoot. He stresses the importance of RoL proving that he doesn't have a gun. He says that if RoL does not prove he cannot shoot then they should kill him. (RoL had said that he would be absent so it's possible that he may have done this to push someone else into shooting RoL while he could not respond). He re-explains this point in a few posts and stresses that if he is lying then they should kill RoL*. *Note: Since the thread can verify whether or not RoL has a gun ("prove it by typing the command or we shoot you") it makes absolutely no sense for RoL to be lying. So this posturing is worth next to nothing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=725&topic_id=340480 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15088363 He is around at the end of the day. Surprise surprise RoL was not lying. The thread is focussed on choosing between Payl Toad and Zentor. There are threats flying around. The thread is disordered and chaotic. Explanations have been flung out of the window and people are shoving their guns in each others faces and exchanging insults about their respective parentage. Wiggles seems oblivious to all of this and pushes RoL. What is strange is that if wiggles advocated shooting him if he was lying and shooting him if he wasn't lying why it took so long for him to get round to telling the thread that he thuoght they should shoot him. He also does not stick around to weigh in on what was happening (the shot "decision" restore order or try redirect attention to his case. Key points:
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