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VE/WBG
First things first: VE I'm getting worried about your constant attacks on WBG, I'll start by saying that I did think he was scummy at the beginning of the game and right now on a list from town to scum he would fall on the lower half for me, but nothing much has struck me as especially suspicious since the start.
What's bad is that your case on him as of right now is entirely based on one post, this could be a problem for a couple of reasons. First is that as I mentioned he's seemed less scummy to me as the game went on and by using one post your focusing the argument on one thing he said a while ago. The second issue is that well individual posts can be strong indicators and what you've pointed out does look suspicious to me (your post has pushed WBG to the scummy side for me) it's still only one post and in what I've seen any town player can make a post that looks weird or scummy just because they were thinking weirdly at the moment or had a disconnect in what they meant and what they said, and I don't think you need to even go that far for that post which doesn't have any big behavioral tells, just some logic you dislike. Because of that I'd be really uncomfortable lynching him based on what you have right now and if there's more you should really bring it up.
My biggest issue though is that you seem so positive that if you're not scum he must be scum and that one of you has to die by tomorrow, this is an attitude that could cause a LOT of problems if you are both town, obviously we can't know that but still you should be deciding to make cases based on play alone, anything else could be a big distraction or derailment especially when it's coming from the two big vets in the game. Obviously if you see a bunch of scummy things from WBG don't stop with this but Mattchew's right this is a really bad idea if it's gonna be based on one post and be because you can't imagine both of you are on the same team.
Zealos/Tunkeg
On Zealos and Tunkeg I'll start by saying Tunkeg is definitely the less likely to be scum and I'm even leaning town at this point. Looking through his filter he doesn't have a huge number of posts but he has stuck to what he said his meta was switching to at the start. Most of his posts are him giving his reads, directly answering people, making a case, or asking questions. These are all townie things to be doing and while I disagree with his play and arguments at points (e.g. his scum-read on ET obviously, (also it would be very weird for scum to shoot someone that one of them called a scum-read on just the day before, it both immediately show them to be wrong and forces them to make a case on someone else as well as wasting any case they've made so far.)) he's doing them in a townie way and at worst he'll stay this open and show himself to be scum, if he doesn't stay so open we notice and lynch him for it, either way I'm happy with him atm.
Zealos is a different story. First he lurked a lot day 1 and said almost nothing with what posts he did make, now day 2 he's basically just argued back and forth with hiro which has just cluttered the thread with no possible benefit. This especially because arguing with the person you're accusing (and often with the person accusing you) is not useful, you're obviously not going to change their mind, but instead of moving on and proving his towniness by scumhunting zealos sits around in a useless argument. This means between tunkeg and zealos I obviously would prefer a zealos lynch but...
Acid~
My biggest scum-read right now is in fact Acid. Looking through his posts the first thing that jumps out is simply lurking. He has been lurking this entire game, with few posts, even fewer posts of any significant length by him, and even fewer posts in which he is directly addressing or responding to others, something scum love as they get to look like they're making content without ever calling anyone out or putting themselves in a situation where they might get directly called out.
In a similar vein what content he has had has been the same in almost every single post, him tunneling acro/marvel. This tunneling began at the start of the game and hasn't abated, this is very big as it means that he gets to look like he's giving reads the whole time while he's really just repeating the same thing, this thing that also hasn't been the main topic of discussion so he never would end up in the spotlight. The biggest issue in this whole tunneling spree is that then at the end of day one the vote is between NT and Mouldy, Acid had expressed that he thought that NT and Marvel were scumbuddies yet when it's clear that a marvel lynch isn't going to happen and when NT is on the table he doesn't even attempt to move the vote. No he sits content to leave his vote somewhere where it can't do ANYTHING, washing him of any possible guilt for a mislynch of either candidate.
And looking at his most recent post and one of the only posts of his with any reads that aren't marv/NT (maybe the ONLY post) he goes for literally the easiest reads possible, a couple of lurkers who he gives one line on about them lurking and ONE of WBG/VE because it would be too much work to even decide between that.
Finally as if this all wasn't enough, after looking through Acid's stuff and concluding much of this, I also looked at ET's filter as promised and found something very interesting. Our resident just-killed townie's largest (Okay maybe second largest) post was an accusation of the one and only Acid. Now this post was a night-time accusation so it didn't draw much attention (if it had I suspect ET would be alive right now) which meant that if say, he had been correct and accused scum they would feel okay shooting him for it as no one really noticed the accusation. I mean look at why ET was killed, he seemed town and was playing well as far as I can tell and those very probably contributed to his death but vets are viewed very highly in these games, so much that it's surprising that both of them are alive even by day two, it's strange that the scum didn't shoot one of the two people who as scumhunters would presumably be their biggest threats, and one thing that could very much have influenced this choice is if someone else who was playing well also hit on a scum with a good case.
Thus - ##Vote Acid~ QED
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EBWOP: I did mean to say at the top of the last paragraph
Finally as if this all wasn't enough, after looking through Acid's stuff and concluding much of this, I also looked at ET's filter as promised and found something very interesting (I say "much of this" because I did notice some of this from ET's own case, just to give credit where credit is due).
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Okay that's fine, the last bit -
Let's do this bugs. Not later. Now. If we both live until tomorrow this is happening anyway, so let's just get it over with. I think you're scum. It's your turn to think I'm scum and vote for me.
gave me that impression but honestly of course I could have been wrong, that aside I maintain my other issues with the case. I do though see that he hasn't answered some important questions and that does look worse for him, I would say it's becoming more likely that he is scum but I also am much more sure of Acid right now. I will add my own question for Bugs - yesterday (in game) you said you were okay with a vote switch to VE (that's in what he just quoted) do you still think that VE is scum and if so why? Bugs it will look very bad if you don't answer this as well.
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EBWOP - That was directed at VE's last post.
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Okay I'm going to sleep now but you kids play nice, I'm also waiting for Acid's response of course but I can't say I'm expecting anything special. A bunch of other people need to get in here and start commenting too though, I'm looking at you froggy, zelblade, katina, tunkeg... (shoot, way too many people are lurking, if these people don't get commenting that's gonna be more of an issue than which/if either of VE or WBG are scum) if you lurkers are town you should be posting, it really only helps.
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Could we get a vote-count up in here?
Holy shit this thread went to hell, Mattchew thank you for posting normally to try and fix things (at this point I wasn't even annoyed that you were doing flavor text, but someone needed to get in here and help cut off the VE WBG shitfest so thanks) On the possible lynch candidates now, first ##Vote: Zealos I've been asleep so I haven't been here to do this but know there's at least one more person who would support that lynch per the reasons in my last big post. (also look to that for why I don't think a tunkeg lynch would be good)
But what interested me is I think there is definitely a stronger case to be made on Acid than on Zealos or Zelblade, (haven't looked into him yet, give me a little time for that) he made one response, and now no one is voting or pressuring him. So I'd like to ask, Mattchew and Marvel what are your reads on Acid right now?
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NT the WBG VE thing mostly ended a few pages back, the discussion's now mostly on Zealos, Zelblade and some lurkers. Speaking of which, who would rather have lynched Zealos, Zelblade or another lurker? (if so which one?)
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Oh whoops I forgot to unvote,
## Unvote
##Vote: Zealos
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To clarify I was referring to Zelblade when I said "haven't looked into him yet". I think I saw Marvel's read earlier looking at that... now. Okay I see it, he says he probably shouldn't have included you, that's not a very complete explanation of his thoughts on you, I'm not saying I think he thinks you're town, I'm saying I want to know all of what he thinks on you.
I didn't respond to your response first because as I think I pointed out somewhere it's rarely useful to get into an argument with the person you're accusing on whether they're scum, you're obviously not going to get them to concede anything and frankly I think VE/WBG and Hiro/Zealos had that ground covered, we didn't need another two players going back and forth on each other.
The purpose of this post isn't to make a case on you it's to look at other people and what they say on you, hence the question at the end, I'm curious as to whether the reason your case didn't gain much traction is because you're scum or because better townie's looked and don't think you're scum. (honestly I was leaning to the second one, that's why I asked two people who I think are town, if I thought it was more likely you being scum I would have asked my scum reads because that puts them in an awkward position if you are scum)
I said you were a stronger read than the other two in part because I'm slow to give up my reads (probably a problem with my play) and in part because if I had phrased it a lot less confidently it would have had even less of an impact. I'm explaining this all now because I admit I did like your response and it pushed you away from a scum read for me and after making that post I actually looked over you again (I noticed what Marvel said a little bit after making that post actually) and between your response and posts since I felt less scummy on you.
So if you're town then Acid I have a question for you, is your biggest scumread still Zelblade? Where would you place Zealos right now? Also what do you think of Froggy?
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Marvel first at the beginning he was doing his whole flavor text thing which I really didn't see as alignment indicative, if anything town would probably be more willing to do it because scum would be afraid of drawing attention and everyone yelling at them to stop, but then where I started to think he was town was when people had a problem with him he continued to do it but also made sure to make his reads clear and explicit as the game went on, I don't think scum would do this as once enough people were accepting it or not lynching him over it I think he was in the clear, policy lynches rarely happen day 1 and almost never day 2, but he continued to be clear with what he was saying.
Then when he posted all of his reads I agreed with many of them and just the thought process behind them seemed townie.
The biggest thing now though is that he stopped with the flavor to try to get VE and WBG to stop fighting. Scum would have no reason to do this, first most scum would (and probably did) just stay out of that fight in general seeing as it was making the thread more confusing and scum-hunting more difficult. They could sit behind the excuse that it was the two vets and they know more or should work it out or something, but Matt has an even better excuse, he could have ignored it or thrown some useless flavor at it and if anyone asked him about it later he could say he did what he could (which because it would just be some flavor text probably wouldn't fix anything) and no one would blame him as most people accepted the flavor at this point. But instead he decides that doing what's best for town is more important and stops with the flavor text, this is big because one he's helping town in the first place by calming the fight and two by stopping the flavor text he's making himself more vulnerable and easier to read, I think if scum took the gambit to post like that at the beginning they wouldn't be willing to give up the advantage of being harder to read so soon at all.
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I'll say my two choices would probably be to leave it between Zealos and Zelblade, Zealos I'm the most sure on being scum and I'm going to keep my vote on him, Zelblade I just looked through and HE NEEDS TO POST. Either I'm crazy or he has exactly 1 post today, that's not okay. If he doesn't provide some serious content by the end of the day I would really hope that he get vig-shot just so we don't have to waste time lynching someone without anything to read them by.
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WBG I mostly agree but I don't see it with tunkeg, I'd happily lynch Zealos and Zelblade if he doesn't show back up, then maybe froggy (I saw something recently that pointed town to me but it was something he could've been copying from big town players) kat I haven't looked at recently so I'd have to look over that again, but tunkeg despite less activity recently just doesn't look scum to me.
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Hey guys just a heads up I'm leaving for a debate tournament over the weekend, I will still have an internet capable computer (I think the hotel will, if not my phone) and will stay as active as I can but I definitely won't be able to go back and forth for continuous periods of time so just expect more in the way of larger individual posts that address everything I can.
On the game I'm happy that Zel is back with us, will reserve alignment-judgement until I see more. I still support the zealos lynch, aaaand not much to add at the moment.
Oh actually I'm realizing that I could very possibly not be back in time for the lynch because of the bus-ride (lynch is 6 pm EDT correct?) well assuming there's no massive scum-slip in the next 12 hours I'm happy leaving my vote on zealos, so I guess this is just a heads up, don't be surprised if I can't make it back before the lynch. (I think if I can't get to a computer I'll try to at least check things by phone like an hour before the lynch) anyway I only have time for 2 hours sleep as-is so I'm off now.
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Hey guys I'm really sorry I didn't post before the deadline I'm having a super busy day and no wifi so phone posting it is.
I'm caught up on the thread and have a couple things to say, first it's really good the zealo lynch went through obviously, to be totally honest I think I wouldve switched on to hiro because of the risk of killing dt. As to the possibility hiro is scum, I'm just not sure, it seems super risky for scum to put 2 of 4 up at risk over a gambit like this, and I don't know why they would choose to get hiro involved when he went 1v1 with zealos as obviously one of them was gonna go down after that, it would seem better if 1 scum dies no matter what for them to do what it looked like, make a desperation claim to take out a townie.
On the general game state. Calm. The fuck. Down. We are 2 days in and we've already lynched scum, in no possible world is this a bad situation for town, yes people have argued and tempers have flared but please cut the shit about people playing terribly or giving up or whatever, we're doing fine and everything seems a ton worse than it is because people are saying it's that bad.
Ummm I feel like I had a lot more to say, if I think of it I'll post otherwise day might bring more to mind, sorry I can't really save posts and going over is hard so stuff might come out in bits an pieces as I remember it.
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Zelblade, froggy, or kat, kat because she's seemed semi-scummy to me but some people have commented on her meta and this is definitely the type of play that I think could just be someones meta, similar to NT. Zel and froggy have just been lurky and I think that's really the best use of a shot right now as if we have more than 1 or 2 lurkers going into late game we'll be in a very tough spot, I would lean toward froggy of the two because he really hasn't been in the spotlight at all, zel had a major wagon giving him both attention an a chance to slip up and he hasn't made himself obviously scum which counts toward him more than someone sitting in the shadows who could have been very scummy without ever having pressure. Zel if we need to we can continue the discussion and case from yesterday on, froggy we have almost nothing to go on.
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I don't have much to say but I just got 10 minutes out of the debate tourny so I'm checking in, I'm caught up, I don't know how i feel on the acid case now, I'm mostly interested to see who gets killed before I provide new analysis, I don't really have time to think over any of the longstanding conflicts at this second :/
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Okay i'm mostly caught up, I saw all the claims and right now I want to ask, VE do you still want us to lynch you and go through with your original plan?
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Soo I'm back and, I honestly just don't know... I guess at this point we just go through with VE's plan, I just got in and I've stayed caught up on my phone but I couldn't really analyze much, I'm gonna go back over the thread and see if I can make sense of what's been happening or if there's anything I've missed but... yeah I really don't know what to do at this point.
##Vote VisceraEyes
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Those 3 before me ninja'd me, idk about that being obvscum, he just looks given up, but at this point I don't think we can really let VE get out of this, it was his own plan.
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EPT
