EPTTL Mafia LIV - Page 67
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:13 Nova_Terra wrote: Cases and posts against Eiii are at least convincing enough to warrant his vote. Therefore, i would like to see how he flips for info. On May 12 2012 20:31 Nova_Terra wrote: for info as in if Eiii is town l10f is probably scum and vice versa. sorry for no clarification Please specify the cases and posts, and write your own reasoning regarding those. this is literally the first time in your filter you mention Eiii. I want you to write WHY you think his scum. As an aside: How on god's green earth are you still alive? Bless the name of Kurumi for granting me a bullet, but curse him for granting me only one! ##vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Also now is not the time to be mislynching me, maybe that was day 2, but not now. that would screw us over | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote: You are full of crap [1]ways like what exactly? relying on the calimed vig in the hopes that we have an engineer and they picked refill ammo and life over doctor? relying on having a blu demoman that has placed bombs on the players we want, and then manages to get themselves killed? relying on red not having a medic that can counteract these night hits? The lynch is the most reliable way to kill players if we decide to. There are so many lurkers that we cannot grant them immunity from the lynch on the grounds that "our blues will deal with them" as you are doing. Would you have us ignore scummy players that are lurking and lynch elsewhere? If BM had been the only death 1 we would be in a similar position to most towns that ever were having mislynched a townie day 1. [2]The candidates we had when i opened the thread where grush57 5 votes and then a few people with 1-2 votes. The votes were spread out. I thought and still think that grush is town. Lynching a "lurker" was the best move we could have made+ Show Spoiler + Strictly speaking BM was an inactive. [3]??? Let's pretend that you didn't post this: which describes the information gained from lynching me, after you emphasized the value of information. You want to kill me because i pushed a lynch that didn't give us much information. Boo fucking Hoo. That is not the point of a lynch. You lynch to kill scum. When you are desperate you might lynch a lurker (who has a chance of flipping scum) over player that are active or that you have town reads on. [4]He is dead isn't he? I got the lynch onto him, and i would do it again. I am also going to shamelessly hijack Palmar's reputation by pointing out that he supported a BM lynch and he flipped VanillaTown/Blu Team + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2012 06:20 Palmar wrote: ##Vote Bill Murray [5]"questionable defense?" i think ghost summed it up here: *ghost tragically forgot this later on when other people suggested killing me. [6]You will weep tears and become the laughing stock of the entire forum! On May 07 2012 07:07 layabout wrote: Can somebody other than me adress why the above post from Eiii is wrong so that instead of just arguing with each other i can pretend that you don't exist and play the game and he can not post at me? i will even get you started: contradiction: comment which has nothing to do with what i wrote: so we should kill lurkers by means other than the lynch. whoever gets the most votes dies. always, the lynch kills people, whoever it targets dies It is reliable killing mechanism. Vig shots can be blocked by red & blue medics and engineers (medics), and red roleblockers(syies and blu heavies (veterans). An unreliable killing mechanism. Since we had an awful chance of lynching scum (spread out votes, weak cases, limited discussion, nearly everyone was afk and the leading candidate looked green(blu)) I went into last resort mode and tried to get us to lynch BM. You then called me scummy for pushing a lynch that generated limited information, when the very concept of lynching for information has been agreed upon by this sites best regarded players as a bad town play that you can take advantage of as mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 + Show Spoiler + When the town is allowed to focus on one or two key topics at a time (without the same points being repeated over and over), then the town is in a strong place. Lack of doubt, inflammatory posting, and strong town leadership must be avoided. Here are some of the things mafia can do to steer the town in the wrong direction: Incite active or aggressive players to do the work for you. If you can get a player emotionally invested enough in one train of thought, they can likely cause the chaos you need without linking you directly to the bad atmosphere. If something goes wrong, the town will generally blame the most vocal and aggressive person, even if someone else was really behind the chaos. By letting other townies do the work for you, you allow them to take the fall when town realizes they were on the wrong track. guess i got carried away. The introduction is a bit hateful. I think i will just edit it slightly. On May 10 2012 04:52 layabout wrote: froggynoddy you are now confirmed town so my scumteam is in here: grush57 l10f Eiii papapanda On May 11 2012 05:49 layabout wrote: Eii would be my pick for the scum other than grush. He has a similar (pityful) post count to l10f but within it a different agenda is clear. I do not wish to re-start my argument with him but a quick glance show that whilst that was one of many posts from me. The argument with me was the thing that Eiii felt deserved the most time and effort. Then after making it clear that he thought i was scum (and arguing with me even though most of the guides here tell you not to argue with the person you are pushing as you do not need to convince them) he follows me onto blubb.* now his vote for blubb was strange and is one thing that makes him look like town as there was no real reason for him to switch as scum. The problem with this point is that mafia are aware of that and might deliberately do it + Show Spoiler + lets hope that if that is the case he will do as risen did and make a ton of promises and then follow them up with excuses casting aside any doubts that he was scum Look, if anybody is guilty of not scumhunting, trying to fit in and copying the opinions of others it's him. I am not sure that he is scum. But if he is town then he needs to pull his head out of his rear and start playing. And these are Layabouts posts that I find to be useful regarding Eiii | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Town is dying from inactivity... Those people who want to lynch Eiii over N_T or grush (which is beyond me), give reasons that distinguish him from the other lurkers/low content posters. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 13 2012 00:57 Nova_Terra wrote: And blazinghand told me to quote the exact posts, dont say that i shouldnt copy and paste posts *sigh*, if you actually put in to reading my post then you'd realise I'm not saying don't quote posts accurately, its just your analysis should be more than just block copying another player's case, with no logical premise, conclusion... nothing. If you think that everything you posted is in any way conclusive or even makes sense then you are seriously mistaken. Thats not to say I don't think Eiii is scummy, just that the effort you (amongst others) are putting into the game is pitiful. If I wasn't so sure you're more likely to be just terrible townie than Grush you'd have my vote. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:36 Nova_Terra wrote: but i would prefer to lynch grush or papa over marv NT what happened about lynching grush or papa? | ||
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
Thoughts about N_T: 1. His FOS are mememtoss, kenpachi, layabout, papapanda (Well, he voted for kenpachi, he didn't really make a case) but never really contributed much to discussion. 2. N_T's relationship with kenpachi grabbed my attention(reading their filters). He jumps on the bandwagon, Kenpachi says to lynch N_T, layabout, and marvellosity (+paqman). layabout flipped town, so this might be a list of people who are all townies, or a mixed bag. Considering that while kenpachi asked for a replacement, he was still in the game for red at that moment, and I think he wasn't under the impression he was getting lynched soon, this list seems to make more sense as a list of townies(this is WIFOM though:/). Thoughts about grush: 1. Lots of FOS with little to no backings. Does not contribute to discussion, does not benefit town at all(even less than N_T). 2. Interactions with red team include voting on katina, calling out sinani, and defended by Kenpachi (sorta) when paqman votes grush. Again, I am not so sure about Kenpachi outright supporting another scum, so this case is still kinda invalid. 3. Grush is a sheep (yes I sheeped too, but a little less than grush), all his votes have been part of the lynch of townies. grush57: Day1 Bill Murray (lynched) Day2 blubbdavid (lynched) Day3 layabout (lynched) Overall, both still come across to me as nooby-townies, but I am leaning towards lynching N_T "for information" to see Kenpachi's move. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 13 2012 05:27 papapanda wrote: As of now, my vote would be either for Nova_Terra or Grush57. // Overall, both still come across to me as nooby-townies, but I am leaning towards lynching N_T "for information" to see Kenpachi's move. So you want to vote for N_T or Grush57 both of whom... strike you as town? By what unbelievable compromise of mental acuity could you possibly think voting for a town player is a good move today? Let me break it down for you: our goal is to lynch scum. I don't give a dick what "info" lynching someone will give us if he flips town. I personally believe N_T is scum, but the fact that you're willing to vote him and also claim he's town is utterly preposterous. I literally can't imagine why you would do this unless you are scum. ##unvote ##vote: papapanda | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Grush Eiii Marv (21) Stop hurting town. ow. ow. stop it. ow. | ||
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
On May 13 2012 05:59 Blazinghand wrote: So you want to vote for N_T or Grush57 both of whom... strike you as town? By what unbelievable compromise of mental acuity could you possibly think voting for a town player is a good move today? Let me break it down for you: our goal is to lynch scum. I don't give a dick what "info" lynching someone will give us if he flips town. I personally believe N_T is scum, but the fact that you're willing to vote him and also claim he's town is utterly preposterous. I literally can't imagine why you would do this unless you are scum. ##unvote ##vote: papapanda I don't recall who, but someone said don't throw away our votes. And to do that, we must focus on 2-3 people each day so mafia has less influence. In this case, I assumed our 3 candidate for lynch is Eiii, Grush, and N_T. Yes, grush has made some suspicious actions,and yes, N_T has made some suspicious actions; Eiii less so for me. My post was based on this assumption and my analysis of each of these three players. So let me rephrase. The content of my argument points to Grush and Nova_Terra being bad players, and the likelihood that they are bad-townies is the same, if not more, as them being bad-mafias. Regarding information in quotations, I was referring to this post: On May 12 2012 07:13 Nova_Terra wrote: Cases and posts against Eiii are at least convincing enough to warrant his vote. Therefore, i would like to see how he flips for info. The point I was trying to get across was that using his logic, lynching N_T would have been just as viable. | ||
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
Mememtoss said not to throw away votes: On May 12 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: Its pretty hard to "tip the balance" with 2/12 people. Thats also why I say don't throw away your votes as a townie. If the person you think is not going to get lynched and you can't convince anyone else. Then use your best judgement to vote for who you think is scummiest that has a possiblity of getting lynched. Throwing away your vote on a person with 0 votes ultimately gives the mafia heavier sway in deciding who gets lynched. And no 2 mafia to 10 townies is a good position. We haven't lost any PR's but I doubt we have any. If we keep the discussion active town will win. The fact that half the town is quiet most of the town is the only chance of town losing. Someone also said to post all FoS, so I just want to bring up sinensis once again. On May 12 2012 12:13 Sinensis wrote: I am sick of seeing scummy, zero effort posts like this from N_T. His posting has been a huge issue in the thread ever since day 1. I am putting l10f and papapanda on the back burner until N_T is dead. -I am going to vote N_T until he is dead- (I WILL BOLD IT SINCE NO ONE LISTENS TO ME NORMALLY) ##vote: Nove_Terra If you flip town I don't know what I believe anymore. He is going to vote Nova_Terra until he is dead, seems like an easy bandwagon for a scum. FoS Sinensis, I will be listening to you very closely. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 10:35 PaqMan wrote: + Show Spoiler [laya post1] + On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote: zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing, together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though! + Show Spoiler [laya post2] + On May 07 2012 06:36 Eiii wrote: Hey remember that time I prefaced a statement with 'ideally' and then you freaked the fuck out and took it as an actual defense of lurkers even when I explicitly said right beforehand that we should definitely be killing them? That was great. You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said there. I never came anywhere close to saying we should grant lurkers immunity from being lynched, just that they're always the best option when they can easily be killed off in other ways and we can get more out of our lynch. Plus, lynches aren't the most reliable way to kill people by a long shot. With lynches, we have to deal with mafia influence in arguments and votes. With a vig? He just shoots whoever he wants and that person dies. Seems pretty reliable to me! I refuse to believe you actually think this. Mislynching an active town-- or at least one that tries to defend himself-- has a completely different outcome than lynching a lurker who everyone just kind of agrees is *probably* going to be bad for town so whatever let's kill him. Here's how I see things: Day one is always a chaotic waste of time that usually results in a mislynch or something else equally retarded (e.g. BM lynch). Day two is then mostly driven by analyzing who did what day one and, with the information gained from the day/night deaths, how those actions look. And hey, what do you know, that's almost exactly how this game is going! A good chunk of the talk today has been about Kat/206 and how people connect to them or how they connect to others-- but no one has said a thing about the BM lynch. Because it was useless. Let's pretend that you *actually* read and understood that and aren't just trying to attack me for whatever reason. Lynching you for information isn't even remotely close to lynching you because you're scum, and then looking into the connections that start popping up once you flip red. I want to kill you because you've done scummy things. You started a scummy lynch bandwagon day one and you defended another scum, which is suspicious in ways that have been brought up again and again. So I agree-- let's lynch scum! If only you had that same mantra day one, when you decided that you didn't like where the lynch was going so you just threw a lurker (or 'inactive', whatever) onto the fire, who you had no reason to believe was red. What happened to 'let's lynch scum' then? When you're desperate for a lynch you find the scummiest player and you lynch them, you don't just redirect the lynch onto whoever's convenient. 'Player X is scummy and the best candidate we have for a lynch today-- but let's not lynch them! They're smart! Let's at least wait until later.' ...that's a perfectly reasonable, valid defense to you? ok.  Eiii believed layabout was scum at the time of those posts. He then follows up with this: With his reason being: + Show Spoiler + On May 08 2012 05:59 Eiii wrote: In my experience, when people blow up under pressure like this, they're usually scum :s Why does that bother me? Because he easily dropped his one & only scumread to join the blubb wagon. He had no hesitation with dropping layabout in favor of blubb. His last-minute voteswitch was weird and I don't know what to make of it.FoS. People need to put some attention on him and make him de-lurk. Good D4 lynch. All of my previous fos's were horrible. I will look into NT as a possible lynch and re-evaluate my opinions. The main point from within this post is here: On May 11 2012 10:35 PaqMan wrote: Why does that bother me? Because he easily dropped his one & only scumread to join the blubb wagon. He had no hesitation with dropping layabout in favor of blubb. His last-minute voteswitch was weird and I don't know what to make of it.FoS. Not even really that much of an accusation. Having looked back at it though, Eiii's switch to blubb doesn't look great. Eiii actually makes a couple of pretty extensive posts on layabout with many paragraphs and argument, and then spends a whole sentence going 'k, gonna vote someone else now'. This is worth mentioning because it was practically the only time in the game Eiii bothered to make any extensive posts. This does look scummy. However, he is easily overshadowed by stronger scum prospects. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nova_Terra: For me the mind boggles that BH has moved his vote off him. Nova has suddenly hopped on the Eiii train somehow. On May 12 2012 07:13 Nova_Terra wrote: Cases and posts against Eiii are at least convincing enough to warrant his vote. Therefore, i would like to see how he flips for info. He goes on to quote a bunch of layabout's posts, so these are clearly the convincing enough cases he is referring to (l10f never made a case, Paqman's was a FoS). Nova has taken to sheeping a dead townie. Like "ah, this townie thought this dude was scum, so he has to be a valid target for me!" except we never actually get anything new from Nova except this: On May 13 2012 00:56 Nova_Terra wrote: Doesnt scumhunt, seemed to suggest that lurkers shouldnt be lynched, the fact that dead players say he is scum, defensively oriented This... this is not a case. Remember this? + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Just got back from yet another apple store, looks like im gonna have to take an hour train ride to get to a place where teh iphone can be repaired for around 150$ isnt it wonderful So anyway, as I promised i will be making an effort to do some analysis, i decided to do a bit of filter analysis on papapanda Please read his filter along with this case papapandas filter is surprisingly short. I didnt realize this until i actually went through his filter. Less than 2 pages. Papapanda starts off the game decently, actually. He seems to post some minor analysis on behavior at the beginning of the game in regards to blubb and grush. However, at the same time, i noticed a bit of noncommittal behavior on his thoughts on blubb. "i thought he probably misread, but im still somewhat suspicious" just say you have a neutral read if you're neutral on him. Then he kinda tries to make a very early bandwagon target. I dont like that. Then theres a bunch of 1 liners, with a question that makes it seem like he is contributing. he likes to continually state that he will lynch/unvote blubb, while at the same time saying nothing else about anyone. another thing to note is he puts a "placeholder vote" on blubb in case he cant make the deadline, effectively setting himself up to not be there and not post if he doesnt have to. Then he jumps on the GRUSH BE HELPFUL NOT THIS SHIT "contribution" bandwagon. Now here comes the parts that i think are pretty scummy. This post goes like this SOFT DEFENSE SOFT DEFENSE AGREEMENT AGREEMENT SOFT DEFENSE and fluff. then he says he is totally undecided. come on, really? you can make a post spamming agreement and soft defense, but you cant make a solid read? Next comes a puny case of marvellosity after saying a conspiracy theory about how BM's lynching was orchestrated by scum, which seems mighty convenient coming from someone who soft defended BM and didnt take part in his lynch Then he reposts an idea from layabout and says its "interesting", then agrees again with someone else and sets up a cute little train "marv next after layabout" setting up for future lynch. Goes on to criticize defense again and agains, and now he goes back to a neutral read on blubb. and says that the only reason to think blubb was scum was becuase of his slip day 1 (wait, didnt he say that he thought this wasnt scummy and he could have easily done the same thing?) And some more 1 liners. Later, "i can see why you want to lynch N_T but like N_T said" MORE AGREEMENT, MORE AGREEMENT, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO PUSH SOMETHING OTHER THEN LAYABOUT/MARV MOOOOOOORE Then he seems like hes making a misunderstanding about mementoss on purpose allaround, Agrees a shitton, 1 liners a ton, and tunnels a good bit, soft defends so he can use it later so right now i feel comfortable putting a vote on him ##Vote: papapanda Gone and forgotten. l10f comes out with this superhandy list and hey presto, Nova has an easy bandwagon target to jump on, completely abandoning his previous read. Scummy as fuck. There's something else that caught my eye because it reminded me of something from LIII. On May 12 2012 21:02 Nova_Terra wrote: If you take a look through Layabouts and Eiii's filters, you will notice that there is a lot of suspicions of Eiii throughout. Eiiis filter comes across to me as defensively oriented, and he has been under suspicion all game. as l10f is going hard on him now, it makes sense to me that if one of them is scum the other is almost certainly innocent, and if one of them is town the other is probably scum. Also now is not the time to be mislynching me, maybe that was day 2, but not now. that would screw us over On April 29 2012 09:26 Bill Murray wrote: Nah, you can afford to wait another day, now BM was scum. Both posts are basically just "na, you shouldn't be lynching me *today*. Nova is still scum and we should be lynching him today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- l10f: I encapsulate my thoughts pretty succinctly on him here: On May 12 2012 05:43 marvellosity wrote: At the moment his case, though, is superceded by l10f's. What distinguishes l10f and grush is that l10f actually seems pretty capable of logical thought - his posts are arrogant and dismissive, as opposed to grush's headless chicken/ostrich approach. Mementoss, your whole case on him is pretty sound. The list is just all kinds of bad, pushed at us like it's '100% objective' and not his opinion. The fact that he's basically claiming the list is truth when he never makes any attempt to back anything up is really scummy. I also go back to the contradiction I pointed out in my last post. He has Eiii and me as #1 and #2 for lynching, but also explains 'scum have led the mislynches we've had so far'. This statement and his list can't both be accurate, so he's been caught in his own lie. However, digging through his (lacklustre) filter, I found something else I want to bring people's attention to. Firstly, I'm just gonna spoiler his two posts that constitute his 'case' against Eiii. + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2012 05:30 l10f wrote: OMG THESE BANDWAGONERS SUCK --> joins layabout bandwagon wat I like my chances better on you than layabout! And if you're green, darn, sorry! ##vote: Eiii + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2012 08:10 l10f wrote: His post just seems so scummy. he just points out some people looking like scum because they jumped on "bandwagons", then pretty much says yeah these people all look scummy, blah blah BUT I VOTE LAYABOUT. Then he proceeds to use information that layabout already made clear to attack layabout, when if he had actually read layabout's posts it would be clear that nothing happened so far condemns him nowhere near how he's posting right now. But what's this? On May 09 2012 15:55 l10f wrote: Also I forgot to mention, before night 2 actions I was originally going to say marv + paqman are scum team together but with Kenpachi flipping scum I'm just not sure about paqman anymore. They've agreed with each other most of the way so I thought they looked suspicious together. Now I'm just down to marv. What does everyone else think about this possibility? Marv and Paqman now, except not Paqman, just marv. Where the hell has Eiii gone in this reckoning? The post clearly states before Kenpachi flipped scum, me and paqman were his choice of scumteam, but with the flip were no longer. Eiii just completely disappeared from this read and it was just me. He then revives Eiii as his fucking number 1 scumread somehow. On May 10 2012 05:25 l10f wrote: Because you looked like an obvious scum then. You and marv #1 scum team? On May 11 2012 13:45 l10f wrote: Anyway, it looks like I was right all along, scum is in Eiii/marv/grush. Eiii most likely. Basically it seems to have gone from Eiii to marv, to marv and Paqman, back to marv, back to Eiii. With pretty much no explanation in the middle. No scumhunting. No cases. Pushing and being suspicious of various people in various orders with no consistencies. Also re-read my quoted post on him above where I lay out the contradiction in his list and how he views the scum and mislynches. This guy is scummy as hell. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To papapanda: I think you're reading Sinensis wrong here. He's basically saying "Nova is scummyscumscumscum, gonna vote for scum until he's lynched'. This does not seem unreasonable to me, please rethink. To BlazingHand: the chances of papapanda being a dumb townie and just saying really stupid things is too high when compared to the lies, inconsistencies, and failure of other players. I do not think papapanda makes a good lynch today. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
##Vote Nova_Terra | ||
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