EPTI haven't been modkilled yet, so I'm pretty confident that I will not be modkilled this game
Wheel of Fortune Mini Mafia
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
I haven't been modkilled yet, so I'm pretty confident that I will not be modkilled this game | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Purplehaze I'm looking at you. It feels like you made this an issue just to make an issue of it. >.> | ||
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strongandbig
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No but actually, I think we've got plenty of time for the last two people to post before we start worrying about policy lynching one of them. I'm also trying to fully understand the mason plan in all it's configurations. The first thing I see is that if there are no real masons, then a pair of scum fake claiming would be really powerful. The way we get around that is by having a dt check on one of the mason claimers, so the plan overall basically just turns a normal dt check into a double dt check. This would be helpful to town. However, there could also be real masons and no dt. In that case, the scum could fake claim dt; when we lynch one of the masons and they come up town, we don't learn much because there could be a framer, and he would have almost certainly chosen one of the masons. Alternatively, scum could fake claim dt and confirm the masons, then start confirming the other scum (with some real townies in the mix as well.) If scum have a framer, then it seems like their move would be to target one of the masons for a kill and the other for a frame up. That way, they certainly either get a kill or on one of the masons, or else the town won't get a dt check on the mason pair. (If the mason targeted for the kill is jailed, then they survive but can't be dt checked. Therefore the dt either gets no result, or gets a framed result.) Preview edit: actually, when I reread the OP, it looks like jailing someone may not block dt checks ion them, going by the in-flavor description. Does "Gregory House's safety net" (jailkeeper power) also block actions targeted on the subject other than "being booted off the show" (getting killed)? I expect that the answer to this will be "yes" since that's how I think jail keeper normally works. If the answer is "no" I will post an update. Anyway, my current feeling is that the masons should not claim super early. Since there's no doctors, the mafia could go for either the fake dt claim response or the kill/frame combo, significantly reducing the advantage we get. There's one other thing I was thinking of. Since we don't know whether or not there are masons in the game, what's to stop two townies from fakeclaiming masons? One VT would claim mason and choose their best townread, claiming them as the other mason. The other person would go along with it, assuming they also think the first one is town. In theory, this could give us the benefit of having masons even in a scenario where we don't have masons. However, if a townie chose a scum, it would be really bad for town, so this sort of bets the whole game on one read. I'm not comfortable doing that. Additionally, this would let the town act as though those two are confirmed town as long ad they're both alive, but as soon as one is killed and flips VT, the other one isn't confirmed anymore and it goes back to reads. This could be helpful, but I don't think the risk is worth the reward so I don't think anyone should do it. HOWEVER: I also think there's a foolproof way for the masons to breadcrumb each other without putting each other at risk. Everyone should post a string of characters. For everyone who's not a mason, those characters wil be random. However the masons will share a one-time pad, and will encrypt each other's names, repeating through the string of characters. Then when one of the masons dies, the other one can reveal the one time pad which converts their string into the other mason's name and vice versa. Clearly a one time pad can be chosen to convert any string into any other string, but the odds that this will work both ways without having been constructed are astronomically small. I suggest we use at least sixteen characters. Thus, if my mason partner was to encrypt my name, then the decripted string would be STRONGANDBIGSTRO. Since scum won't have the one time pad, there's no way for them to figure out who the masons are as long as everyone posts a string. I see no way this could go against town, but I won't post such a string yet so that people can tell me why I'm wrong, if I am. Finally, I have a question for MrZentor. Ace is in this game; why did you change your trolling method from last game and not call for people to lynch him again? Another preview edit: ace posted the point about the SK KP potentially messing up the town; this does seem like it decreases the odds of masons surviving to help the town, which makes me even more hesitant to support a quick claim. | ||
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strongandbig
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You randomly generate a string of characters, which you both have. This is your one-time pad. You each take your decrypted ("plaintext") string, and add each letter to the letter in the same position in the one time pad. This gives your encrypted string. (by adding letters I mean incrementing by the position in the alphabet. You can convert each letter to a number, 1-26, and add the numbers, going back to 1 when you would go past 26.) The messages can then be decrypted by anyone who knows the one time pad, by subtracting each letter of the pad from the corresponding letter of the message. However, without the pad the messages cannot be decrypted. Therefore you post the encrypted messages before anyone dies, and then when the other mason dies you reveal the pad, which changes their string into your name and your string into their name. | ||
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strongandbig
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On April 23 2012 03:11 Snarfs wrote: Couple of things to comment on in the beginning. First of all, strongandbig's posts are big and mostly useless. Specifically, this encrypted message stuff that takes up a large portion of his posts. Anyone can hide something in their post, we don't need you padding your filter and clogging the thread with that sort of stuff. Last time you started a game like that (SS Mafia) you were scum. Are you scum this game too? MrZentor, you're abrasiveness and dismissal of people's questions, while not necessarily (or likely) mafia behaviour doesn't really help the town. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would appreciate a more respectful player than the one who needs to call everyone "illiterate, boring, dull, stupid, or thick" just to make a point. I'd say it actually lessens the strength of your cases when you resort to ad hominem attacks. As for the other things that have been talked about: -Hydra should sign their posts -Masons should claim if they feel like it will benefit town -Town reads are not necessarily only negative (though admittedly they are not as important as scum reads) I get the feeling you didn't really read my posts. Sorry they were so long. I had a lot of scenarios to work through on the "early mason claim" question, and I People have previously been talking about how the masons should "leave clues" in their posts to who their partner is, but that their clues would have to be careful so as not to alert the mafia. I'm saying that I've got a foolproof way for the surviving mason to confirm themselves if the first mason gets killed, but that it requires cooperation. It's not at all the same as "anyone hiding something in their posts." It only really covers up the masons if everyone posts. Scum would naturally be against a scheme like this, in my opinion. Since I can't see any way it can possibly hurt town, I think we should do it, even if the benefit ends up being small. | ||
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strongandbig
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Also I'm not actually sorry they were so long, fuck that. | ||
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On April 23 2012 04:24 Forumite wrote: strongandbig, your posts are long, not so long that I didn´t read them, but you could put some effort into putting everything on a subject together in one paragraf, instead of having lone lines here and there. Why do you make a situation to help identify scum, then tell scum how to blend in? Since we´re still talking Masons, I don´t think there´s a rush in claiming. If they claim then scum have more time to pick them off. As long as they claim well before getting lynched then there´s no reason not to wait a few days. To emphasize that, if you are a mason about to be lynched, then don´t wait with claiming. I don´t want to ever see a voteswitch the last 10 minutes, or even the last 30 minutes. If you are too late then we might as well lynch you to confirm your partner. I usually operate under the assumption that unless something's a deliberate and crafty trap, scum will figure out what the scummy reaction is as long as they take some time to discuss things over in their QT and think through the ramifications. This was not a deliberate trap, so I think that only hasty scum reactions are likely to get caught by it. I'm also very softly pointing a bit of suspicion at snarfs, and to a lesser extent Ace. I also usually think even unnecessary paragraph breaks make for easier reading, but I could be wrong about that one. On April 23 2012 05:58 SamuelLJackson wrote: If I understood correctly what strongandbig said he is pretty much against masons claiming at all. He doesn't want masons to claim unless the other counterpart of their mason role is dead, therefore giving us less advantages but also less risks because it's only one confirmed townie but it's just impossible for the 2nd guy to be mafia when the first one already flipped town AND mason. If we are willing to work on the assumption that neither scum nor VTs will ever claim masons, because it's too risky for scum and too stupid for VTs, then the best move for the masons is probably indeed to claim day 2. FWIW, I definitely think masons shouldn't claim day1 for sure, but I'm pretty much okay with a day2 claim if we think the scum won't take the bigass gamble on claiming mason and linking themselves together. It's only when we start to think that's possible that the situation gets very much more complicated. I guess we could just rely on the "policy lynch a mason if both of them survive more than two nights" or whatever it is you guys are saying, as a counter to the potential of scum fake claiming masons. However two days of behaving as if two scum are confirmed townies seems like a pretty tough hit for the town to take. Anyway, if there are masons in the game, then there's still at least a 1/10 chance they die night 1, and there could also be an SK. airncdkurhtigyeb | ||
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strongandbig
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On April 23 2012 05:58 SamuelLJackson wrote: That being said I really don't think there's masons in here because of what I said earlier and would rather talk about scumreads instead. No responses about what I said about VE? I skimmed the first few pages of VE's last several games. This seems like by far the least he's posted in the first 24 hours of any game recently, as scum or as town or as SK. The one thing I did notice was that it seems like he tries to lead when he's town but not by pushing lynch targets, but rather by telling everyone else why their lynch targets are wrong; he's not doing that this game, but he's not doing anything yet either. (at least compared to normal) | ||
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strongandbig
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On April 23 2012 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Did you not see whichever game it was where he singlehandedly led the lynch on Cyber Cheese? No. I read DFM2 (town), LI (scum), and Bastard (SK). I'll take a look at some others if I have time, but there's a lot of players here to get background on. | ||
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strongandbig
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On April 23 2012 09:09 Snarfs wrote: I'd like to see a few of VE's scum reads before voting for him. There hasn't been a ton of content and I'm not convinced that giving his town reads is an indicator that he is scum. strongandbig, I actually did read your full post. It just seemed like a lot of setup speculation coming from the same guy who said this: What was it about the setup speculation that was more important than discussing the hydra signing their posts and why should we not consider you "suspicious" for the same reasons that you thought prplhz was suspicious? Hmm. I guess partly because in the case of the hydra it seems kind of obvious and irrelevant, whereas in the case of the masons thing it was actually a question that didn't have an obvious answer (to me at least) and which could require a certain amount of coordination amongst the town. You're right though; it was kind of a distraction as well. | ||
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strongandbig
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On April 23 2012 10:25 Ace wrote: You guys are boring me :/ Compared to the insults and arrogance you were throwing around in SS mafia, you've been pretty tame this game. Maybe you are boring us. Anyone else getting a weird feeling from ace? People who've played more than one game with him? | ||
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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Still I would lol so hard if wbg had to modkill ace after the /in for this game. @ace, I was wrong about your stance in ss mafia re mechanics. I lumped you and BC together as "douchy vet" and got your stances on that game confused. My bad. | ||
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On April 23 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote: ....... Its not the Kenpachi method if said person doesn't do this literally EVERY game. I believe this because VE does this very rarely. Also, heads up, USELESS! POST! Not true. I was caught by BC using the Kenpachi method in SS mafia. I'm starting to really wonder what's up with VE, it seems very out of character for it to take him this long to respond to this set of accusations, whether he's town or scum. I actually feel like we should not lynch him for lurking, but we maybe should wait and see what his explanation is. He has to post his vote sometime in the next six hours or risk a modkill anyway. Since we appear to be seriously considering lynching Zentor, let me put in my two cents on him as well. His play this game doesn't look exactly like his play in his previous games as either scum or town, but it looks much closer to his town play (he started SS mafia with a bunch of retarded trolling as well) than to his scum play (where he seems to have been much more lurkey). He's either making a deliberate decision to change his scum play, or he's still town and was trolling retardedly. I'm not sure which, but I'm leaning towards the latter. When it comes to actual suspects, I'd like to point to Snarfs. He's done a few things so far that make me suspicious. First, we have + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote: I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum. In this post, he says that we should be hunting scum, but in none of his later posts does he actually do any scum hunting. Looks like trying to gain town cred for getting us focused when he's actually not adding anything to the discussion. Also note that this comment at this point was not really trying to change the arc of the thread; at the point he made it we were already moving on from the masons discussion. The two posts we have from him after that are the following: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 09:21 Snarfs wrote: Speaking of which, I'd like to hear some from Ace, whose posts have almost entirely been about Masons at this point. Ace, what do you think of VE has a lynch candidate? If you had to pick a second candidate, who would it be? I think it would be valuable to have two candidates to consider going into the last 18 or so hours before the lynch. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 15:31 Snarfs wrote: These are excellent points, sbrubbles. Thank you for pointing them out, my suspicion of Radfield has also risen because of this and I look forward to his response. Neither of these actually lays out an opinion on who is playing scummy and who we should actually vote for. Again more behaving like he's moving discussion along without actually contributing. Especially with his "suspiciousness of radfield" post, this looks a lot like trying to bandwagon onto a case without actually contributing anything to said case. Finally, here's his first major post (and the only post in which he actually expresses opinions): + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 03:11 Snarfs wrote: Couple of things to comment on in the beginning. First of all, strongandbig's posts are big and mostly useless. Specifically, this encrypted message stuff that takes up a large portion of his posts. Anyone can hide something in their post, we don't need you padding your filter and clogging the thread with that sort of stuff. Last time you started a game like that (SS Mafia) you were scum. Are you scum this game too? MrZentor, you're abrasiveness and dismissal of people's questions, while not necessarily (or likely) mafia behaviour doesn't really help the town. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would appreciate a more respectful player than the one who needs to call everyone "illiterate, boring, dull, stupid, or thick" just to make a point. I'd say it actually lessens the strength of your cases when you resort to ad hominem attacks. As for the other things that have been talked about: -Hydra should sign their posts -Masons should claim if they feel like it will benefit town -Town reads are not necessarily only negative (though admittedly they are not as important as scum reads) Let's look at both of the points he makes here. First, his response to my mason encryption plan is nonsensical. It's a plan that would, I admit, only help town in maybe 1% of situations, but could literally not possibly hurt the town. It died, I believe, mostly because Ace was dismissive and seems to be leading the whole "mason theory" discussion; that's not actually out of character to me, Ace seems pretty dismissive in general of plans that aren't his. However, the first few reactions to the plan are still interesting. Snarfs's seems like what I would expect from a scum reaction to a complex or convoluted townie plan; dismissal without actually engaging the details, as well as accusations being thrown around. Additionally, if you look at my post, the real filler wasn't the encrypted message stuff; it was me trying to work through the scenarios that could come out of a mason claim. I was responding to the question Ace asked, when he asked for reactions to his mason plan. Now, look at his arguments on MrZentor. Note that he calls him out for being weird and not townie without actually accusing him of being scum or anti-town. He doesn't take a position on whether or not Zentor is scum or town at all, just saying he could be anti-town. Then there's the little comment blurb. None of the things he says there are actually meaningful, but seem like they might be an attempt to jump in on a discussion that already happened without actually adding anything new to the topic. Snarfs, J'Accuse! ##vote: Snarfs | ||
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strongandbig
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Oh well. Waiting to see what he posts and if that changes my opinion. | ||
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On April 24 2012 03:49 Snarfs wrote: Only about 3 hours to lynch and noone else here? What do you guys think about a marvellosity lynch? strongandbig and prplhz, what makes me a better lynch than him? Of the other players who have votes on them already, I'd probably prefer a Radfield over a Zentor, mainly based on the difference in effort between I'm a Cop You Idiot and this game. When I look at your filters, comparing yours before I accused you and his as it stands, I see him lurking hardcore, and I see you lurking hardcore but putting in an effort not to look like you're lurking. I actually find that far more suspicious, since it seems much more in line with scum behavior to try and fit in rather than just to not do shit. Your attack on marvellosity again seems to fall into that category for me. You're not actually accusing him of being scum; you're just saying what we all know, that he hasn't actually contributed to the thread yet. Your posts since I posted my case have been more on the side of contributing, I guess; at least, the stuff about marvellosity and radfield is getting into the issues. However, with marvellosity you're essentially proposing we do a lurker lynch, and the radfield stuff is kinda helpful but really short. All in all, I'm not yet convinced that your posts during the first 40 hours of this game were doing anything other than trying to look contributory. I still think you're a better lynch than either marvellosity or sbrubbles. Regarding the lynch: options overall: I think that sbrubbles is probably a worse lynch than either marvellosity or snarfs. He only made three posts, but he still manages to have more substance in his filter than either of the other two. If it comes down to a lurker lynch, sbrubbles is a worse choice than marvellosity imo. I don't think we can call a snarfs lynch a lurker lynch, but I still think he's pretty scummy ATM. In general, I think that a lurker lynch is only a good idea if (A) the lurker is both scummy and lurky at the same time, (B) there's little to no prospect that the lurker will contribute to the town in the future, or (C) if there's no one you think is genuinely scummy after day one. I think we have enough information to go on that we can lynch someone for looking scummy rather than just looking lurky. For me to move my vote over to marvellosity or sbrubbles, I would have to hear someone explain why they're scummy rather than just lurky. So far all I've got on them is "man they're not posting much." I also want to hear MrZentor tell us who he thinks has been acting scummy. As I said above, his retarded trolling could either be his town MO or a scum tactic. However, in the previous game I played with him, he got serious relatively quickly. This game, the fact that his vote is still on himself three hours before the deadline bugs me. Personally, I was leaning against him being a good lynch, but that sort of hangs on him deciding to contribute something serious to the game. PRE-EDIT: I see radfield and sbrubbles both posted while I was typing this up. (I'm typing this on a desktop so I can actually check before I post in another tab, instead of posting on my iphone like I usually do.) Sbrubbles is even less lurky now that he's posted again. Still think he's not a good lynch. | ||
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strongandbig
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##unvote ##vote: MrZentor | ||
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strongandbig
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OTOH, it'd be a shame if we wasted tonight and all of day 2 just sitting around in anticipation of the Zentor lynch. We should discuss other possibilities as well and see if we can find someone who's actually playing effective scum. | ||
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strongandbig
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At first I had a pretty strong town read on him, since his MO at the start of SS mafia was also to troll, and then say he was "starting discussion" or whatever (that time, he ran a joke campaign for mayor, this time he votes for himself.) However, what happened in SS mafia was that he took accusations against him seriously, although he did continue playing the tard card. Here's an example: On April 13 2012 10:01 MrZentor wrote: I just felt the need to show that they misinterpreted my post as a "scumslip". I always feel the need to clarify when I accidentally post something that is misleading/vague or when somebody misinterprets my post. Thanks for the vote, Michael! A vote for me is a vote for the death of a scum(probably Ace) I'm actually not so sure anymore about him. After rereading his filter in SS mafia it looks like the derping continued a lot longer than I remembered. Why I originally said I thought he was the SK was that he wasn't trying to help the town, but he also wasn't trying to play like a townie; I thought that if he was actually scum with buddies in a QT he would be trying harder to fit in. Now I think there's a pretty good chance he could be SK, scum, or town and just not give a shit. It's like he's trying to slowly build up to being Kenpachi. | ||
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He just doesn't seem like he's trying, or if he is trying it's at something other than "helping the town." If he can prove that there's some meat to this weirdness of his then I'll change my vote. | ||
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I'll put this in a spoiler so people don't accuse me of padding my filter: + Show Spoiler + Well shit. I guess there's a reason they call it a one time pad. I haven't actually studied much cryptography, so I didn't think of that. The first thing which comes to mind as a remedy is that the reason it's breakable using your method is because scum know the set of possible decrypted messages. What if instead of hiding each others' names they each encrypted one of a pair of linked words (for example, "apples" and "oranges")? That way the scum wouldn't be able to reverse engineer the key because they wouldn't know the decrypted message. I guess it's pretty much academic at this point though, since masons would probably have claimed already. @bluelightz: So your case against me is that I accused snarfs of being scummy, but you also think he looks scummy? I think both of your other points have already been pretty well explained in the thread; I posted about mason mechanics because that's what we were all talking about at the time. I've explained my votes on Zentor. My initial town read on him was based on his play in SS mafia, where he started out trolling but quickly started playing a bit more seriously. This game he hasn't taken much of anything seriously; it feels different. Let me know if you have any specific questions. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Example] + On April 25 2012 23:22 phagga wrote: Forumite: He has focused a lot on Zentor, and barely spoke about anyone else. He posted frequently, asking a lot of questions. I haven't noticed anything particulary scummy, but it's the same in the other direction. LOL, ok, so... Why the change of mind? What did you find that makes s&b town now? I already discussed this in this post, as Radfield brought up the same point. Those were an answer to this question. Yeah, I actually thought I lined out on D1 why I found him susicious. Rereading my own filter now I see this is not correct. So in short, the reasons I'm voting him:
This is from the top of my head and my notes, without rereading his filter. First: There was no votecount for a long time. I intended to help. That's not the first game I've done that. Second: That was shortly before the deadline. I wanted people to know that I will be no longer around as a lot of discussion was going on at that time. Also: But then I checked his profile, and he's been a formatting tryhard before in other games; for some examples how about + Show Spoiler [Aperture] + On April 03 2012 15:21 phagga wrote: Derp indeed.
everyone else: GET ACTIVE! + Show Spoiler [snmm] + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote: Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now.1 So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me.2 About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him.3 So what I think about InfernOokami7: beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him.4 And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him.5 ##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote: I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas So I no longer think that's a scumtell for him. So on to who I do think is scum at the moment. First, there's the Zentor question. With someone behaving so oddly, it's very hard not to wifom about the implications. I'll do that plenty, but I just thought that maybe we should save that for after we know whether he'll flip town or not. If we start talking about how we will interpret future events, it kind of tells the mafia how to manipulate us during the time before we actually get to the lynch. So some other thoughts. [b]VE, what is the ups? Why are you playing so differently from normal? Your filter is less than twice as long as mine, which is really not what I'd expect. Interesting fact: VE was also the first to change his vote officially to "no lynch." (His vote was on sbrubbles before, so it was effectively a no lynch vote already.) I'm not entirely sure what to make of that; on the one hand, why change your vote and draw attention to yourself as scum when your vote is already getting the same result? On the other hand, a couple of people followed him and voted "no lynch" instead of potentially joining one of the bandwagons, so maybe it was a tactic that achieved it's effect. [b]Ace, we already have more than a majority voting to lynch Zentor. You've said you want to focus on his lynch and not discuss other potential scum because it "just throws more names out there." Now that the Zentor lynch seems to be pretty much the status quo, what do you suggest we discuss, if not our scum reads on other people? Also for some reason every time I try to preview this post the bolding on Ace and VE's names doesn't show up. Hopefully it will show up in the actual post but if it doesn't, just mentally bold it for me. | ||
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On April 26 2012 10:19 prplhz wrote: I wonder if any of this has anything to do with how you are getting lynched and how I'm not getting lynched. mafia ZING! | ||
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On April 27 2012 06:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Spewing BS you say? So it's just fine with you that Sbrubbles ignores the present lynch candidate in favor of someone who has a single vote based on a single case which was in the process of being responded to? That's...okay with you? As someone who's saying I'm "trying to divert the Zentor wagon"? DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE!! What are you talking about? Sbrubbles is voting zentor right now. Unless you're referring to the fact that he kept up pressure on you earlier in the day. I don't see that as "ignoring the present lynch candidate" personally; to me, it seems more like he's trying to keep us focused on finding scummy posters rather than letting everyone just coast on the knowledge that a zentor lynch was coming, and thus waste the whole day's potential for getting town more information. That's not scummy behavior, imo. That said, sbrubbles filter is mad short. | ||
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I further postulate that this makes his town play less helpful to the town than it makes his scum play helpful to the scum team. The clear solution is to lynch Ace every game until he shapes up. That probably won't happen this game, but it's definitely something to think about. Now, here's my thoughts on what appears to be the main issue of the hour: Regarding the VE case, I note that he's finally given us an explanation for behavior that we all agree is outside of his usual meta. He claims that he's decided consciously to play a less active town, because the way he normally plays town gets him killed earlier than he likes in a lot of games. The questions are (a) whether this explains the weirdness that we've noticed about his behavior, and (b) whether we believe him. As far as (a) goes, I think it would definitely explain his abnormally low amount of posting, since obviously that's exactly what it's intended to explain. However, it doesn't answer away some of the other parts of Radfield's case against him, like the accusations that VE doesn't care about the lynch, has a mafia oriented mindset, etc. VE's answers to those arguments are found in other parts of his defense, not in this mindset claim. (b), however, is where I get a bit suspicious. Even though I can understand the motivation of wanting to stay alive, it seems like a mini like this one where something like half the players are known mafia veterans would be the worst one to start a conscious change in meta as a townie. First, it's bound to raise suspicion unnecessarily from players who are known good readers of meta. Second, even if a domineering and very active town style tends to attract mafia guns in normal games, in a game like this one where there's plenty of veteran targets, it seems odd to be so worried about getting killed quickly - especially when VE himself has posted about how stacked this town is and how he couldn't be a leader in it. Third, and related to the first two, VE should have known that he would be making himself an easy vote park for scum by changing up his playstyle on purpose. On the other hand, the point about this game being an odd choice to consciously change meta also applies to if VE is scum; he still would have known that it would attract attention. My interpretation is that VE's play this game is not like either his normal town play or his normal scum play. I just am not convinced that his explanation for that holds up, so it makes me lean towards a scum read on him. | ||
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Gonna do a real post when I get to a computer with a keyboard, too many filters to open on a phone. | ||
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On April 29 2012 09:16 Forumite wrote: He´s been absent during D3, and I want to hear what he has to say about all the flips. He posts less that Sbrubbles, that´s bad. He´s kind of like Marv during D1, but that doesn´t really make him scummy. For some reason I haven´t thought so much about him. Next week is finals week, so studying kind of started all of a sudden. Here's my thoughts in a nutshell: - I'm still suspicious of Ace. Some specifics: - I don't think any real town player would have tried to shut down discussion in the way he has. His "focus on the lynch at hand" strategy translated to an attempt to get us not to talk about scumreads during all of day two. This seems to me very much like pushing a subtle mafia agenda, trying to get the town to not think about what it's doing. Even though we all knew Zentor was getting lynched barring something extraordinary happening, there was no good reason not to keep talking about who else might be scum. A town isn't just a lynch machine. The essential function of a town is to discuss; to get information out in the public and to get people to post things that can be analyzed. Regarding the town as something that just finds someone to lynch, then finds the next person to lynch, then the next, is an impoverished view that I wouldn't expect to come from a real veteran townie. Additionally, how does Ace expect the town to get information around which to build cases for later days, if he doesn't want us to discuss anything except the "lynch at hand", or the "easy lynch" as Radfield put it? Finally, there's the subjects that Ace actually has discussed. Note that he has never actually put out a read or even an opinion on any of the other veterans in the game; except for some soft accusations toward Radfield, when Radfield started to post his cases on VE. If you look at Ace's filter, he actually accuses Radfield of being scummy by "trying to divert the Zentor bandwagon" with his case on VE. However, Ace never has discussed his opinion on Forumite's play, despite people repeatedly accusing him. Unless I missed it, he's also never commented on whether he thinks I'm scum, or sbrubbles, or anyone at all except for Zentor, Radfield, and Bluelightz. This is from Ace's Mafia Manifesto: Deny information - never give the town a damn thing. Whatever you know keep it yourself unless it furthers your win condition. Don't volunteer it if you don't have to. Don't even talk about it. If you are about to be lynched and the town asks you for information evaluate if you REALLY think it'll save you. It won't? Die without saying a word. Don't talk about anything. Don't talk to anyone unless it's to taunt them and make them emotional. They can't find your allies if you don't give them a clue. Read that and think to yourself, does this or does it not sound like how Ace is playing right now? - Regarding Bluelightz: I just skimmed through his filter. It is a bit erratic and he does throw accusations around randomly. However, the amount of effort he put into getting people to keep talking during Day 2 smells pretty town to me. Think about it this way - what is more scummy, the person who takes a whole bunch of positions that may not make much sense, or the person who takes no positions whatsoever, except on the two easiest lynches and the player who successfully fingered a confirmed scum? I think the latter. - Regarding Marvellosity: I don't have a good read on him yet. I just skimmed through his filter in the newbie game we played together, and my impressions were as follows: 1. During that game, he got indignant and forceful in responding to accusations that he was scum, similarly to what he's done here. 2. However, during that game he also made more reads - looking back, he may actually have been the first person to find the final scum. He definitely found him long before I did. This game, on the other hand, it seems like he hasn't really been posting much at all in the way of content that's helpful to town. That could either have town or scum explanations - it could just be that he either doesn't feel able to read people who know how to play much better than we did in that mini or that he feels intimidated by the vets in this game; or it could be that he's playing one of his first scum games and trying to post without actually posting much content. It actually does sort of remind me of how I posted during my first scum game in space station mafia. Overall my read right now on Marvellosity is null, but squarely in the >.> suspicious looking category. Snarfs proved my wrong after I called him out for fitting in rather than contributing; he started contributing significantly, as well as taking a great shot on VE. Marvellosity could very well do the same. ##vote: Ace PS: I have a problem set due on Monday at 10AM. We are supposed to turn that in at the same time as we pick up the first of two 48-hour take home exams. Barring serious bodily harm I will post once more before deadline, but I can't promise much more than that. I'll try to drop shorter posts from my phone when I can though. | ||
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Ace, I don't think that ignoring veteran players necessarily makes you scum, but consistently going for the easiest lynch available without putting any effort into finding the more dangerous scum players does not smell town. Sorry but I just don't have the time right now to Radfield it up and make a long case with lots of quotes. If that means other players won't believe me then so be it. Winning a game of forum mafia is important, especially since this seems like something that gets richer and richer the longer you've played it and the better you understand the theory and the other players; but if I don't get better than a B in this class I have to take it over again next year and I'm totally not going to risk that. I'm not saying it's always a bad idea to try to get the town to really focus down on a lynch. In fact, it usually makes a lot of sense in majority lynch games like this one. However, as I and BL and other people had said several times, Zentor's refusal to defend himself and his consistently anti-town posting meant that there was zero chance his lynch gets derailed by anything other than a concerted scum effort, a huge change in heart from him, or some major scumslip. As it was, scum didn't have to do either of those things, because they could just ride the mislynch wagon. If they had been forced into discussing their reads during that day instead of being able to just focus on Zentor, we would have more to analyze now and they would have been forced to take more stances. Sure, you could argue that in cases where the clear and obvious lynch target actually is scum, then having the town focus exclusively on that lynch would make it harder for the scum team to sneak in and try and divert the lynch. However, imo it's always more dangerous for scum to have to act than for them to be able to just slip by, and if they try and divert the bandwagon it gives an opportunity for the town to catch them in the act. Plus, even once the Zentor lynch was assured and we had several votes beyond majority, I don't see you having helped move the discussion forward - or done much of anything as a matter of fact. What I'm saying is that by focusing on the Zentor lynch and discouraging discussion of other scum, you were moving the mafia's agenda. | ||
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I'm also not convinced he's scum, but I'm officially willing to say the following: I think ace is the better lynch for today, but I would switch to Marvellosity if that was the only way to prevent a no-lynch. I think Ace is the better lynch for several reasons. One of those is that I think he's been more actively scummy than Marvellosity; and another is that I think that Ace left alive as scum is far more dangerous than Marvellosity left alive as scum. I haven't seen anything yet that would rule them out as being scum partners. @Marv, you made some cases in our noob game which I ignored at the time but in hindsight were really quite good. Why haven't you made a case on anyone this game? If you had to do so now, on who would you make it? Also EBWOP: By "either of those things" I mean "make an effort to redirect the lynch bandwagon" or "post opinions and risk slipping up." A change of heart from Zentor would have been great, since he flipped town. | ||
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Let me quickly respond to the "case" here. On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: I don't think that marvellosity is scum. Why? I've detailed why I'm unsure about him and would rather lynch Ace. Why do you not think Marv is scum? On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: I want to lynch strongandbig. The case on him is that his filter is empty, I'll be the first to admit my filter isn't very long; that's not the same as "empty" though. I like to mostly post when I have something to say. I've made two relatively detailed cases on people (snarfs and ace), and although those cases weren't necessarily the most polished or (apparently) the most persuasive, they represented what I genuinely thought at the time. On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: his posting style is weird and he has not been called out yet. Lol. My posting style is weird? What about Bluelightz? Or yours? On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: He was the ultimate sheep vote on MrZentor How is that? I explained my reasoning for that vote several times - the nutshell being that I thought he was town at first, but when he kept trolling and didn't try to contribute I thought he was scum and overreacting to being told he lurked too much in DFM2. On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: and his big contribution has been his mason plan which was not a contribution since masons have successfully crumbed since the beginning of time without one-time-padds or any other cryptological remedy. He wasn't even called out for it when I pointed out how his plan was broken even though that was a perfect opportunity for scum to jump him, Thanks for reminding me about that! I had forgotten that you were the first one to attack that plan for no reason, which I still think was a scummy move. Unless you're claiming to have already figured out that flaw, days before you posted it in the thread, you admit you were attacking a plan which had no downside but only upside for the town. I admit there was a flaw in the plan originally, that I didn't see at the time; however, I think I found a way around it by changing the encrypted message to linked words like "apples" and "oranges", which wouldn't be breakable because the scum team wouldn't know what the encrypted messages were and therefore wouldn't be able to find out who was using the same key. On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: a really safe case that scum should like. Lol. On April 30 2012 04:43 prplhz wrote: He smells like a scum and I want him to die. I'm going to lynch marvellosity if he's the alternative though 'cause I don't want another day1 no-lynch fiasco. What about Ace? Also if you are so sure that Marvellosity is not scum, wouldn't a no lynch be better than lynching him? Also if your secret evil plan is to sabotage my grades by making me type more, you've succeeded. T_T | ||
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On April 30 2012 06:09 Sbrubbles wrote: Strongandbig, Bluelightz and Ace, are your town reads on marvelosity strong enough that you refuse to consolidate? Mine is not that strong. I'll be back before deadline. | ||
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I haven't really heard anything from Marv that strongly changes my mind about what I said earlier. ##unvote ##vote: Marvellosity Still not sure about this. | ||
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On April 30 2012 06:44 prplhz wrote: If you're not sure then why are you voting him? Please, a couple of sentences if you would be so kind! I explained above how I felt about switching to Marvellosity, but I'll post it again here for you. I think it's odd that he hasn't been posting strong cases in this thread, or actually any cases at all. I could see that being because he just doesn't have any scum reads, as he claims, but I find that unlikely - at least in my opinion there has been plenty of scummy behavior so far by plenty of people. It kind of reminds me of how I behaved in my first and so far only scum game, in space station mafia, were I ended up posting reads and cases that everyone attacked as flimsy and noncommittal. I didn't even intend to do that out of a sense that I should avoid committing to positions, it was just a subconscious effect of actually knowing who scum was rather than trying to figure that out. So I don't know that Marvellosity is scum, but I think there's a higher chance that he is than if it were a random player. I think that chance is high enough that I'm okay with the lynch, especially given his apathetic response this afternoon. | ||
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On April 30 2012 06:55 Ace wrote: How can you lurk the entire day and then show up to hammer marvellosity? EVERYONE UNVOTE MARV! HE IS MORE THAN LIKELY TOWN! LOOK, A LURKER POPPED IN AND HAMMERED HIM OUT OF NO WHERE! Marv has stopped trying and told people to vote him. Where's the "EVERYONE VOTE ZENTOR HE'S NOT TRYING AND TOLD US TO VOTE HIM" "oh well more prize money for us" Ace of yesteryear? | ||
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On April 30 2012 07:15 marvellosity wrote: s&b, you're a silly boy, you know very well I'm town. T____T | ||
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On April 30 2012 07:17 marvellosity wrote: Like I asked you before s&b - you don't think I could have fabricated some sort of case on someone if I had so desired? I could probably make a decent case on any of Sbrubbles/prplhz/forumite if I actually believed in it. I do - but let me ask you, after the Zentor fiasco, why would you decide to start Zentoring yourself today? There were only like three solid votes on you at the point where you just gave up... BTW I actually randomly got put in a game with MrZentor on bnet. Weird. | ||
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I still think Ace is also scum but ##vote: prplhz | ||
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Also @ "coming around" wtf are you talking about. He posted once between posting his case on you and dying, and that post was supporting and pushing the same case. On you. | ||
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I'm glad you "have your doubts" about me being scum, seeing as the only case anyone has made against me is prplhz's "herp derp he's scum guys," and he hasnt even mentioned any of my answers. Also where the fuck is forumite? Does he usually go missing for days at a time with no explanation like this? | ||
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This buddying between forumite and prplhz where they both just assert that the other one is "most likely town" without giving any reasons makes no sense to me. Unless they're both masons or something, which would just be trollolol given how this game started off. | ||
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Seven alive, majority is four Prplhz (3): Strongandbig Phagga Sbrubbles Phagga (2): Prplhz Forumite Forumite (1): Bluelightz Strongandbig (0): Not yet voted: Ace Bluelightz, if you actually want to get someone who might be scum lynched, you should change your vote back to prplhz. I agree that Forumite has been acting kind of suspiciously, although I think less so than Ace or prplhz; but we're currently heading towards a no lynch, so even if Forumite is your #1 scumread you should change your vote to prplhz. Let me summarize some key points from Snarfs' case on prplhz that haven't been answered to my satisfaction: - He started day 1 going after MrZentor, but as soon as I made my case on Snarfs he voted him with no explanation, trying to sheep whatever he thought the town bandwagon would be; - He posted a case on Zentor right at the end of the day when it was too late to discuss, despite having written it earlier; - He lurked most of day 2, and joined in the "focus on Zentor, don't talk about other lynch targets" thing; - He claimed to want to avoid a no lynch day 3, but then kept throwing around random targets, including his absolutely inane "case" against me - which he seems to be sticking with; - He also hasn't been at all interested in discussing his case on me, or responding to my answers, which he would do if he was really a townie who thought I was scum; I still have no clue why Forumite is so insistent that prplhz is town. It's really making me think that Forumite might be one of the scum, instead of (or even together with) Ace. But either way, he seems pretty insistent on it. So to Ace and Bluelightz - at least one of you is probably town. Either (1) vote for prplhz, (2) tell me why you're so incredibly sure that he's town that you're willing to take another no lynch, or (3) make a case on someone else that's so ridiculously strong that there will be a mass switch to them in the next six hours. Actually forget number three, because it would take a case as persuasive as Radfield's on VE, and I don't think either of you are going to do that. Vote for prplhz, or tell us why you'd prefer a no lynch. | ||
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On May 03 2012 00:52 Bluelightz wrote: I don't mind a no-lynch today as if we ML we'll be lylo tommorow :/. If there is any information roles its good I guess :| . Oh, s&b please answer this: WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING SURE PRP IS SCUM? I THINK HE'S TOWN. I'M NOT VOTING HIM. YOU GOT THAT?. WHY ARE YOU SO MUCH TRYING TO SECURE THIS (MAYBE) MISLYNCH? Because of the case snarfs made on him. It was very persuasive. Snarfs analyzed everything that prp had done this game and explained how it made way more sense from a mafia mindset than it did from a town mindset. And nothing prp or anyone else has said since then has explained his actions. Here is a link to that case. Also if you're so sure he's town why did you vote him like three hours ago? | ||
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Finally - being in MYLO tomorrow is actually worse for town than being in LYLO, because it's harder to lynch correctly with more targets. That's also something snarfs explained in his big post before he died. Unless you plan on no-lynching tomorrow, we don't actually gain any time by no lynching today; and even if we no lynch both today and tomorrow, giving ourselves an extra day, that puts scum in control over who dies rather than town. During day 3, it benefits mafia much more than town to cause a no-lynch rather than a mislynch. The only thing town has to gain is another no-lynch, which they have to use in order for it to be remotely beneficial. Even then, you are sacrificing a confirmed alignment of a suspicious player for an extra day where that player is still alive. The tradeoff is this: - 2 suspicious town members dead, 2 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 5 (3:2 town:scum) vs - 1 suspicious town member dead, 3 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 6 (3:2 town:scum Scum would much rather be in charge of which town members are dying than letting town kill off their most suspicious reads to work their way towards lynching red. Especially when one of those town members is a town-vigilante ("confirmed" town). And remember, the second option only occurs if town actually no-lynches a second time. If mafia can convince town to mislynch twice in two days, then no-lynching on day 3 was a huge win for them. | ||
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On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: My cases are always short and always weak, that's probably one of the reasons nobody ever listens to me. I could mention my case on MrZentor in Death Factory Mafia 2, you can go read that. It's a more wordy version of the case I have on strongandbig right now but it's pretty much the same. Or you can look at the case I made on Artanis[Xp] in TL Mafia LVI, that was equally "weak". You can also look at how I just dismiss Artanis[Xp]'s defense in that game, I'm pretty sure he is scum and I don't want to argue shit with him. I know my case is "weak" because I can't really explain it any more to you than what I've already done. The most important thing I'm doing is that I'm pointing out that he is scum and telling you to read his filter and then that should convince. This isn't a real argument. prplhz is saying "I'm not making weak cases because I'm scummy, I'm making weak cases because that's what I always do. BTW guys he's scum." That doesn't actually explain why the cases are weak. Basically, this is a perfect way for mafia to hide; if you never have to make a real case on anyone because you just don't ever make real cases on anyone, then people can't suspect you for not ever making actual cases on anyone. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: I'm also perfectly aware that my day1 and day2 were ruined by some guy who decided to make those a horrible experience for me by demonstratively being a douchebag. That's also why I had a break day2, I couldn't read one more of his posts after the "Why are you even playing this game?" post so I took some time off of teamliquid.net. This is impossible to verify. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: All I can say is that I'm pretty sure that strongandbig is scum and now I'm pushing it as hard as I can. lol. "the important part is where I say he smells like scum." On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: As for the "he's trying to set up day2 lynch", why is that even scum? I'm never trying to ruin discussion (and we have always had plenty of time for that even though he didn't use it all that well), I was telling Radfield that we were lynching MrZentor as a way of pushing MrZentor. I didn't want people to leave his lynch and if I didn't fight for it then it might not happen. This is patently false. There was no need to push the Zentor lynch so hard; the bandwagon was moving. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: Even though you are really tunneling me right here you played a pretty good game, I was absolutely sure that you were town even before your shot on VisceraEyes and that shot was also really nice. Sucking up to people attacking you seems pretty scummy to me. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: For people reading Snarfs' case on me, don't ask yourself "Is this scum?", because you can always find a way to spin something as scummy (which Snarfs shows quite skillfully in his analysis of me), you should ask yourself "Is this something scum is likely to do?" and then you should read my filter. And ask me questions 'cause I'm around. The WIFOM defense. He can't be scum, because scum wouldn't do that! If it's scummy then it's scummy then it's scummy then lynch it. + Show Spoiler [Purplehaze's second defense post] + On May 01 2012 05:28 prplhz wrote: strongandbig made false contributions, marvellosity was very blunt in his opinions. Really, it's not just what they said 'cause people say tons of shit all the time, it's the way they said it. When I say that strongandbig's filter is empty then I don't mean that if you click it then no posts show up, I mean that all his posts are pretty useless and it looks like he's just skirting by. It's gutty and we can lynch phagga instead if you want to but my gut tells me that strongandbig is the way to go. I wasn't perfectly sure about marvellosity's innocence until he said, at 4 votes and a bunch of people in the lurk, "people, just lynch me" because scum would never ever say stuff like that, it's too dangerous especially when there are lurkers about. Pretty sure Zentor said that same stuff. He just was more of a dick about it. We were even talking in the thread about how giving up like that can be a scum tell. Anyway this is a bunch of unwarranted assertions with no evidence, which aren't actually true. He eventually admits his read on me is a gut read too. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: "But how do you know that there are lurkers about?" there are always people coming in close to deadline. Even though 2.5 hours before was cutting it a little short for a vote-switch, just see how many people showed up (and later than me), we could easily have succeeded! I'm pretty pissed that you and Forumite and Sbrubbles weren't sufficiently around to agree to a no-lynch, or even a switch to someone else because that would have helped us a lot. See Snarf's post (the part I quoted) for the explanation of why a no-lynch is better for scum than a mislynch. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: I wasn't around day2? I was around in the beginning to secure the lynch and then I took a break. I was around again day3. See above. Excuses for lurking = scummy imo. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: No, I'm not going to tell you why I was very sure that you were town. I'm not blue or anything it was just how you appeared to me in the thread. More gut reads with no evidence or assertions or anything. Great for scum, since their town gut reads never have to be wrong! On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: marvellosity was mislynched and I unvoted with him at 6 votes. I was a little conflicted about this because I thought people might yell at me for ultimately voting for a guy who I was simultaneously saying was town, but when I saw that his lynch was secure I unvoted him. Admits that he changes his actions based on what will get him criticized the least. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: If you read the thread you can see me ask you three people who wanted to lynch him to take care of business and brow beat people into doing whatever you felt like, even though I prefer lynches to no-lynches it's not really me who should be trying to secure it when I'm quite sure it's a mislynch. This doesn't make sense. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: There was no desperation, and how would desperation even be scummy? The "desperation" is in the fact that the case just doesn't exist. I "smell scummy to you"? Really, you just picked me out of a fucking hat. That's how serious your "case" seems. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: Why would I, in your words, be "desperate" and make up a "weak case" that I would "have to follow" when a mislynch was coming up? Why would I up to the deadline say "this guy is really town, look at him and the stuff he is saying" and try to convince you three of a no-lynch (you were the reason we mislynched, a mislynch is only preferable if people think that the person is actually scum). Really, I was doing what was best for town and while you say that 2.5 hours before deadline is a little late, look when everybody else came in. Even later. Now, let me talk about what he hasn't responded to at all in Snarf's case. - There's the fact that puprlehaze combined a defense of VE and a push to keep Radfield from talking about non-Zentor lynch candidates, in the same post. - There's the random jumping around between lynch targets on Day 3. - There's the random jumping to Phagga as a lynch target today, too. Seriously, his whole filter is basically "pick someone random (me in this case) and tunnel them for no reason" combined with "but also randomly throw in votes and accusations at basically everyone else without ever explaining any reasons for those either." | ||
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It seems very unlikely to me that phagga is scum, since I don't think scum would have started bussing each other as early on as he started attacking VE + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. I also don't think that they would have kept at for more than one post, much less have made it pretty much the only thing they were saying: + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 02:50 phagga wrote: I was not on the whole time, but whatever. Yes, I still think VE is fishy, one post with some halfbaked accusations is not gonna change that. And no, I am not up for a Radfield or Ace lynch, as I think bot VE or MrZentor are better targets. Sbrubbles lurking is disappointing, but that's rather a last resort. I would like to hear something from MrZentor soon. Also, I think s&b's case on Snarf is rather stretched, I don't see any of the two as scummy currently. Bluelightz defense of VE seems strange, even for him. I know he can be superlazy, but normally he is still making sense as town somehow. Still not on the scummy side however. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 21:39 phagga wrote: Uh, my impression is that he exactly tried to avoid putting himself in the spotlight. He has 5 posts, which are a town list, 2 defensive posts about himself and zentor, a heart to rad and a post about game mechanics where he also tries to find out more about Aces possible plan(s). That's not putting yourself in the spotlight. Actually, that last post seems a bit strange, now that I read it again. He has not activily participated in this discussion about game mechanics but suddenly seems interested in knowing how Ace would deal with the situation? When I look through his posts again, this one feels out of place in comparison to the others. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 00:08 VisceraEyes wrote: @Ace: I think it looks a lot like your Hypothetical Situation 2. The only issue I have with it is that we don't know if there's a cop OR medic present, where your HS2 was assuming an open setup. Wanna walk me through how your plan works if there are no medics/cops present Ace? Also, he is one of the few people who is not openly supporting a mason claim. @Radfield: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 19:22 Radfield wrote: Marvellosity, you need to step it up. More content please. Also, if you want filters do the work and make them yourself, it takes all of 5 minutes. This is the definition of a 'safe' post. Everything in this post is a popular opinion that has already been mentioned by someone else. It hits slightly on all the major points of this game, without going into detail on any of them. Zentor -> parroting Forumite and talking like Zentor is scum, yet not stating that explicitly nor voting for him. Visceraeyes -> following Toads lead(backed by me), and again indirectly talking as if Visceraeyes is scum(or SK), without actually saying it. Ace and Radfield -> again parroting others points and slinging a bit of mud towards two strong players, without actually calling them out. So phagga, what is your actual opinion here? You seem to think both Zentor and VE are scummy, yet are doing nothing about it. Additionally, I have responded to Shrubbles, what do you think of my response? My problem is that I have a hard time making out something new, something that has not been said yet. There is not much content so far (which is partially my fault), and there is a lot of game mechanics talk that does not really show anything about the alignement of players, specially as pretty much everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the general concept. What exactly do you expect? That I'm going to make stuff up only for the sake of being original? Also, You can believe me or not, but the fact that Ace was only talking about game mechanics and not trying to scum hunt crossed my mind before he was called out for this by someone else. Alas, I was too slow, so it looks like I'm parroting. I'm still a bit undecided on who to vote on, which is way I have not voted yet. I think it is going to be VisceraEyes for now, but I want to read through Zentors filter first. 1 I agree with you that it's no issue. 2 So you just fling some mud into a vets direction without any hard facts? 3So you have a good reason to vote VE, but withhold because... well, you keep us in the dark why you are not telling us. why can't you tell us? Is the explanation going to be so long, are you waiting for more info? I don't see you as scum atm. I just thought that sbrubbles actually saw two good points (the second and the third) and I wanted to point out that I share his sentiment and that I want your reaction too. Note that all three of those were before Radfield made his bigass case on VE and everyone realized VE was scum. Then he kept on it after that huge case: + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 02:50 phagga wrote: I was not on the whole time, but whatever. Yes, I still think VE is fishy, one post with some halfbaked accusations is not gonna change that. And no, I am not up for a Radfield or Ace lynch, as I think bot VE or MrZentor are better targets. Sbrubbles lurking is disappointing, but that's rather a last resort. I would like to hear something from MrZentor soon. Also, I think s&b's case on Snarf is rather stretched, I don't see any of the two as scummy currently. Bluelightz defense of VE seems strange, even for him. I know he can be superlazy, but normally he is still making sense as town somehow. Still not on the scummy side however. So Ace tell me, why do you find Phagga more suspicious than prplhz? Or sbrubbles for that matter? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On May 03 2012 05:38 Forumite wrote: What now? I don´t expect Sbrubbles or S&B to switch, and I don´t want to lynch prplhz over phagga. Why don't you want to lynch prplhz over phagga? I do want to lynch prplhz over phagga. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
nothing should happen ten minutes before deadline. prplhz what was the point of you trying so hard to persuade phagga not to vote himself? If you think he's scum? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
After this shit-show festival of retardation I'm starting to consider that neither prp nor phagga may be scum. Just... so... retarded... We should lynch ace or forumite imo. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:48 prplhz wrote: and by "we're" i primarily mean "i'm" No I think it's all of us. And I agree with what you said up there. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
I'm sure there's a very good reason for your reputation as a great mafia player but the cases you've made so far this game have not been very persuasive, and you only engaged with people on them in one post. It seems like you just got pissed that everyone didn't leap to and lynch bluelightz when you said to. That or you're scum. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Also seriously death by swirlie? T___________T | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Didn't catch on to forumite until far too late though. I was too blinded by that whole prplhz thing. | ||
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