EPTunless there are more worthy foes (likely)
also, don't modkill me pretty please. unless it will cause me masochistic pleasure
Wheel of Fortune Mini Mafia
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
unless there are more worthy foes (likely) also, don't modkill me pretty please. unless it will cause me masochistic pleasure | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 22 2012 11:29 MrZentor wrote: Goodness, you're thick. This could also apply to voting for yourself to start discussion. I don't really see your case on prplhz either. Just a humour failure, and I'm not sure why clarifying hydras signing their name is supposed to be a non-constructive thing at the start of a game. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 23 2012 07:34 strongandbig wrote: I skimmed the first few pages of VE's last several games. This seems like by far the least he's posted in the first 24 hours of any game recently, as scum or as town or as SK. The one thing I did notice was that it seems like he tries to lead when he's town but not by pushing lynch targets, but rather by telling everyone else why their lynch targets are wrong; he's not doing that this game, but he's not doing anything yet either. (at least compared to normal) Did you not see whichever game it was where he singlehandedly led the lynch on Cyber Cheese? | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 23 2012 08:10 Forumite wrote: I agree with this. While you are here, would you mind building on your own filter? We´ve talked about masons the first half of the day, during this time, have you found anyone suspicious? Just had a read over it now, as honestly it made my eyes glaze a little the first time. Regarding the masons thing, it seems that no-one really particularly disagrees with anything, there's just pros and cons of claiming right away and later such as on Day 3. Nothing screamed at me scummy, and I'm not too sure on the case against VE. Sure I know it's a Day 1 case, but it seems to have even less substance than usual. Also very hard to tell just who's lurking and posting and whatnot without the lovely filter list :x | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote: Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying "only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor. No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 23 2012 21:26 strongandbig wrote: Also: I'm kind of suspicious of ace's focus on game mechanics day1 given how pissed he was in the ss mafia postgame analysis about how that game was won using mechanics rather than analysis. I would have expected him to focus on analysis this game. I think there's a marked difference between discussing the mechanics here (blue roles, benefits of how to use) and the PM mass claim in Space Station. Two different beasts. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 23 2012 21:31 prplhz wrote: Are you saying that some scenario could apply in this situation? You're absolutely right!.. But it's a lot more interesting to discuss whether or not it actually does apply in this situation. How do you feel about MrZentor self voting allegedly just to see responses (kind of admitting it is out of character) and then when I respond to it he's says it I am just asking stupid questions, even though I am just questioning some odd post (which is what townies generally do)? For now I would say it could sound somewhat scummy, but more information is required. From what I know of Zentor I reckon it more likely that he would be belligerent/odd as town than scum. This is NOT saying he has a free pass to do stupid stuff, just opinion on what he's done so far. | ||
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marvellosity
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##Vote: Snarfs | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 04:29 Snarfs wrote: Did you read my response to his case? I addressed everything he said. Also, why would you choose to sheep s&b when there are probably at least a half dozen more reputedly decent scum hunters in this game? What of them? Ace has nothing, VE is looking to consolidate, sandroba as far as I can see basically has nothing. There's a shit-ton of nothing. s&b's points all seemed reasonable and your defence was almost purely meta, where I haven't seen people backing you up on it. What is the consolidated case on Radfield? | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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We're gonna drift into that lovely situation where town's gonna lynch me although no-one really thinks I'm scum, and everyone will be like "well, that kinda sucks, but hey ho whatcha gonna do" | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 05:55 prplhz wrote: @marvellosity Why are you acting all indignant? What makes you think that town is just apathetically and inevitably going to lynch you? Where was the indignation? I'm just looking at the flow of the game and the votes objectively. I've not been terribly productive because I've not found anything to be terribly productive about. I've been transparent that I've had null scum reads. I've asked on separate occasions what the cases were on VE and on Radfield to try to get a handle on anything, but I wasn't responded to. I voted for Snarfs because s&b's case seemed coherent, and like I said Snarfs' defence seemed to be meta and he wasn't backed up on it. I admitted my Day 1s were bad, because clearly my Day 1s are bad. This is just the way things are the way I see it at the moment. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 06:06 prplhz wrote: @Sbrubbles Yea, I don't really know who's scum and I was feeling frustrated with it all. The case seemed kind of alright and it still does. How are they clearly bad? Do you often find yourself in this situation? In Newbie VI I played pretty badly for the first couple of days, and right at the endgame, the final townie left his vote until one minute from the final deadline before finally siding with me, as my 2nd half had finally made up for my first half. Take a look at the ongoing Mafia LIII for something else, although I can't talk about it. Take a look at this game. Then take a look at Mafia LI where everybody generally agreed I played decently and appeared clearly townie. There I replaced in at the start of Day 2. | ||
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marvellosity
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Objectively the way this lynch is going down is making it pretty clear this is going to be a mislynch. | ||
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marvellosity
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The thing that ISN'T circumstancial is the fact that the lynch on me gently drifted into being without anyone trying to prevent it. You should be able to discern the difference between the two. Engage logic please. Although Snarfs only has one vote less than me, I'm going to unvote him and vote for the no-lynch. It has good grounding and with no-one being certain of anything it seems a decent option at this point. ##Unvote ##Vote: No Lynch | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 07:04 SamuelLJackson wrote: Ok I said I'm going to bed but I can't stand this... Think about C9++. How much people did that game have trying to prevent a Jackal lynch on d1? 0. What did Jackal flip? Mafia People trying to prevent or not trying to prevent a lynch is not an alignment tell at all and actually there's a SHITLOAD of people trying to prevent your lynch right now ALTHOUGH they said they'd be up for a marv lynch. What kind of mofo action is that supposed to be. And it's not the point that you weren't mentioned earlier in the game but the fact that you did not get a single mention until 2 hours before the lynch or something like that. That's not "earlier in the game", that basicly the whole day1. --- Toad Considerably more people trying to prevent my lynch than there are scum, in fact... | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 07:04 Ace wrote: Just because someone doesn't oppose your wagon on Day 1 doesn't make you innocent. I showed up late and asked Snarfs where are the posts of you soft defending people. Other than that I don't see what you really did wrong. I know it doesn't, but it's not a totally unreasonable heuristic either. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 07:10 Snarfs wrote: What's your defense here, that town is preventing your mislynch or that scum is NOT preventing your mislynch? Please pick one... It wasn't a defence, it was an observation. Is that not allowed now? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 07:21 Snarfs wrote: Just an observation. So you managed to observe the fact that my lynch gained a lot of support without original opposition and then people came to their senses eventually? I dare say there's scum marv with about 5 henchmen. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 07:29 Ace wrote: I actually don't see those as defending any of us. More like an alternative explanation to the results someone is else is suggesting. His comment on me talking game mechanics is in line with the same thing I said. Likewise, he is right that Zentor calling someone thick when he voted for himself to start the game is...  If he is defending Forumite from Zentor, and then defends Zentor 3 times all on Day 1 then I think at best he is just one of those people that always responds to every post in an effort to be as transparent as possible. Or yea, maybe he is just Scum trying to fake a contribution. Defending Zentor 3 times who isn't a good player at all is lol worthy. Maybe it was my mistake for continually responding, but I only had one point to make on Zentor. People kept prodding me and I kept responding is all. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 08:39 MrZentor wrote: Prphlz, no vigilante would be careless enough to kill me. Why would the SK listen to you? You're being stupid. Any particular reason you're being so obnoxious? Just curious like. | ||
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marvellosity
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I'm fairly up for a Zentor lynch at this point. He's actively playing anti-town. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 24 2012 20:14 Bluelightz wrote: Right now, I REALLY want to believe marv is scum, but I believe he is town, look at this: Would mafia be posting THAT unsafe? I feel like that marv didn't fear ANYTHING, so therefore he is town, Mafia wouldn't go like that (straightly pulling the newbie card) after being accused. That's terrible reasoning for me being town, but ok. I'm town because I'm transparent and don't do anti-town things (see zentor), but if you wanna clear me for that, be my guest | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 25 2012 06:08 Forumite wrote: What was up with Marvel? Was it more than him avoiding attention? Cursory glance through his filter told me that he´s not very aggressive, but that could be because most of his posts have been used to defend himself from the lynch. Well, I could be more aggressive if you like. You big ninny. Any questions for me while we're here? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 25 2012 06:12 Forumite wrote:  What do you think about snarfs? You and him are the only players I haven´t seen playing before. Having had a look through his filter, he seems to be posting quite normally. Perhaps s&b's case on him was a little forced on him after all. I found his going after me for my 'soft-defences' to be really quite odd. | ||
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marvellosity
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Zentor is being actively unhelpful. In fact that's all he's doing. Where is this town read coming from? | ||
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marvellosity
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Is this not odd? | ||
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marvellosity
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##Vote: MrZentor | ||
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marvellosity
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Like, how could he play any more scummy before Radfield believed him to be scum? Or should everyone just act like total douchebags to confirm themselves town? Yukkyyuk | ||
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marvellosity
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This, yes. As scum, this could clearly be an effective defence - see Bluelightz/Radfield opinions for examples. As town? Why would you actively troll? Why would you not TRY to be constructive? Or worse still, why try to be DEstructive? Trololol let's waste 20 hours, what the fuck? Why is antagonising the rest of the town in any way useful to anything? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 25 2012 22:35 Ace wrote: A normal Townie = a person trying to actually survive a lynch. Why does How player A defends himself even matter here? It could be the worst defense of all time, but the fact that he even tried in stark contrast to a player who doesn't goes a long way. Really, your defense is "I've seen him do this one time before, and I don't believe Scum would do Scummy things so blatantly." Where as some of us have deemed his behavior Scummy, so then yes more than likely he is Scum. Screw it, let's lynch people for being too town. There is no way an actual Townie would have the balls to do that. Right. The defence of Zentor here is just pure wifom. Would scum act so scummy? It's too scummy to be scum, so therefore he must be town. But what if he knows that he's behaving too scummy to be scum and therefore he looks townie. Then all of a sudden he could be scum again because he grasps this. Ad infinitum. This is practically a paragon of WIFOM, pure and simple. If we leave the WIFOM that we can't possibly resolve (we can always go an iteration further...) then what are we left with? His scummy behaviour, his anti-town posting. This is the evidence we can rely on, and it's why he's probably scum. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 25 2012 23:00 Sbrubbles wrote: 3) Marvelosity: Your play this game has been essencially inactivity and sheeping. During the D1 last-minute scramble, you were apathetic, were giving up on the game and pulled the newbie card. In fact, you did these things at 4 votes, which meant you weren't exactly in mortal danger (but close anyway). Now D2 you're being slightly more active, but the bandwagon on Zentor is already rolling, so you're not actually adding a lot to the discussion. It's hard to make a case on someone who doesn't have content precisely because you can't break down their arguments, but you not having content is exactly my point. You've been lurking and I think you're scum. Also, I tried looking at your games and couldn't find any D1 lynches, but maybe I just missed it. Can you link to one? So because I have a strong opinion on Zentor I'm only sheeping because someone else had it first? Na. This stupid WIFOM defence of Zentor is the first thing I've felt strongly about, so it's the first thing I'm posting strongly about. Also, I've never been lynched (day 1 or otherwise). Look at my other ongoing game for my general posting behaviour Day 1 and beyond. In Newbie VI (as town) I made a one-liner vote on therapist toward the end of the day, and followed this up the next day by lynching a claimed cop (Kohbee). Nonetheless I found the 2nd scum eventually and got him lynched on the final day. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 01:23 Snarfs wrote: @marvellosity: Can you answer Bluelightz's question? Who would you lynch besides MrZentor today, and importantly, why? I wouldn't lynch anyone besides the guy who is playing a lot more scummy than anyone else. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 01:41 Snarfs wrote: Sigh, you're doing an amazing job at sheeping Ace. I'm going to take that as a compliment. It's not my fault Ace is thinking most logically. 1) there is someone behaving scummily 2) we lynch the person behaving scummily What's to disagree with? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 01:48 strongandbig wrote: The thing to disagree with is that by refusing to even discuss other scum reads, you're letting zentor kill off a full day of potentially useful discussion. Don't do that. Alright. Ask me a specific question and I will do my best to answer it. I just see no point in answering the "besides the scummy guy, who would you lynch?", because... we lynch the scummy guy. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 01:53 Snarfs wrote: Fine, let me rephrase the question. Besides, MrZentor, who do you think is scum? I'm not trying to suggest we switch lynches today. I'm just trying to see some of your original thoughts. That's the same question, I understand you weren't suggesting we switch lynches for today. But, nonetheless - I was somewhat irritated by Radfield's cop claim, as realistically for now I think it has to be accepted it. But there has been something off about his posts. On April 21 2012 10:24 Radfield wrote: My challenge for you this game is to have zero 1 liners. If you are going to post, make sure it actually serves a purpose. Do some analysis and make sure that your opinions have actual reasoning behind them, and show that reasoning. This was directed at Bluelightz, but I'm linking it as relevant to what he thinks townies should be doing. On April 22 2012 11:35 Radfield wrote: That is some weak sauce Zentor. Mini jab at Zentor, ok. On April 23 2012 19:41 Radfield wrote: As far as Zentor, he seems classically townie to me. Forumite was talking about how he was nervous and defensive, but I don't really see that at all. If anything, he seemed unconcerned with his defense, and unafraid of the ramifications of his actions. His case on you was a bit premature, but I appreciate the effort. Actually, upon rereading that part of the thread in context, his case does seem a bit forced. I think had forumite not pressured him to continue posting why he thought you were scum, he would not have posted his case against you. Again though, I don't really see it as a sign of scum. It's not a plus, but it's not enough to make me see him as scum. Now Zentor seems townie because of his faux-case at the start of Day 1. On April 25 2012 00:41 Radfield wrote: I think Zentor is town. His posting was casual and confident to start the game, he seems unafraid of consequences in his posting and is not looking to make friends. He is also seemingly shooting from the hip, posting whatever seems to come to him when it comes to him. Additionally he has been confident and cocky about his own towniness, above and beyond what I would expect of a mafia player. I dislike this "above and beyond what I would expect of a mafia player". Mafia players as a tendency don't simply play to people's expectations, otherwise they'd be easier to find. On April 25 2012 06:22 Radfield wrote: Zentor I have commented on already. I think his play is strongly town aligned this game, though I have no meta to compare to. He's been cavalier in his actions and attitude, and nothing he has done really rubs me the wrong way. His case on prplhz was weak, but I don't think it stemmed from a mafia mindset. I just don't understand this. Strongly townie aligned by a non-case followed by incessant trolling? What? On April 25 2012 19:11 Radfield wrote: I don't like this Zentor lynch. I feel like the case on Zentor is that he hasn't been playing like a nice safe contributory townie(which is how scum play). Instead he's been playing like he doesn't give a shit and being disruptive and arrogant. It's like he's trying to look as scummy as possible. This is still bullshit to me. The case on Zentor is that he's been scummy and not playing pro-town, therefore he is town? Crap reasoning. Here I would remind you of the quote from earlier, how Radfield would want townie to play: On April 21 2012 10:24 Radfield wrote: My challenge for you this game is to have zero 1 liners. If you are going to post, make sure it actually serves a purpose. Do some analysis and make sure that your opinions have actual reasoning behind them, and show that reasoning. How does this hold up to his opinion on Zentor in any way? It doesn't. Just going through filter I find it amazing how many times he's defended Zentor because he's been playing too trolly/confident - despite it being the opposite of what he expects a good townie to be doing. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 22:18 Ace wrote: I feel like there is much effort to throw around other suspects names' and derail the wagon on Mr.Zentor. The same Zentor who showed up with his "20 hours later" post and didn't even attempt to convince anyone on his reads. Are you people really this dumb? Yes, but what do you actually think of the Radfield VE case? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 26 2012 21:43 Sbrubbles wrote: As I said, I agree with a marv lynch, especially if VE flips red (which I think he will). ##unvote VisceraEyes ##vote MrZentor Heyoooooo. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 01:30 MrZentor wrote: Don't worry; I won't change my vote. If you want a mislynch, you're going to get one. I just hope town can make a comeback after my death. + Show Spoiler + Considering town has prphlz and forumite, I doubt that that's going to happen. If you are in fact town, what is your reasoning for needlessly antagonising other people? Does this help to find scum? And as an aside, how are you sure prplhz and forumite are town? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 02:28 Sbrubbles wrote: I'm questioning this part of your post: Rad has NOTHING in his post that would make you rethink voting marv. Nothing about going back to the beggining and rereading. Nothing. In fact, his post is lightly pro-marv lynch. If you see something in the following post that says anything about marv's metagame, about going back to the beggining and about rereading or anything of that kind, please point it out: Here you go. On April 24 2012 04:34 Radfield wrote: Marvellosity seems like an ok lynch, though in the newbie game(Newbie VI) I hosted, marvellosity really only posted one liners during day 1, which is what he's doing here as well. I'd like to compare and contrast the two game before I make any serious judgement. ##unvote | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 06:56 MrZentor wrote: Forumrite and Prphlz, hopefully in the next game I play with you, you won't be so blinded by emotions. And hopefully you won't post like such a douchebag all game. We all have our wishes | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 10:22 Radfield wrote: Marvellosity, how did you go from having a town read on Zentor Day 1. Defending him 3 separate times, to this: Really? After having your own town read on him and then slowly swaying towards wanting to lynch him, you can no longer fathom how someone else might still have a town read on him? You had a town read, though yours changed, I had a town read, though mine did not. Why was that so hard to fathom? Keep in mind I understand how you derived your scum read, I just don't see where your confusion comes from about my town read. Because having been called out on his weirdness, he just got trollier, more destructive, and more unhelpful as time went on. His behaviour just deteriorated to the point where "he's done stuff like this before" stops flying. After a point I cannot fathom a town motivation for how he continued to behave | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 10:40 Radfield wrote: Cool, I thought maybe you were just clarifying your own read. It doesn't really matter though, as I don't really think you're scum right now. I went back to clarify my own thoughts on what I posted, the third mention of Zentor being: On April 23 2012 21:40 marvellosity wrote: For now I would say it could sound somewhat scummy, but more information is required. From what I know of Zentor I reckon it more likely that he would be belligerent/odd as town than scum. This is NOT saying he has a free pass to do stupid stuff, just opinion on what he's done so far. My opinion was that he was probably more likely to be odd/beligerent as town. The bit in bold is what helps to explain my subsequent stance on Zentor. If this is how he plays town now, then he's just awful. Because it was so bad. Bluelightz can be all over the place, but his play as town is never wilfully abrasive or malicious. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 10:43 Snarfs wrote: Please don't try and undermine my saying something that you completely agree with. MrZentor provided an extremely easy wagon for scum to do whatever the hell they wanted with. VE is at the top of my list because: A) I find everyone voting for a mislynch day 1 suspicious B) I found VE's not voting particularly suspicious because he said that he would be fine lynching marv until your conveniently placed idea (convenient from his point of view) C) I still have no idea why he is so much more convinced that Sbrubbles is more scummy than phagga or marv or Ace D) His level of care for this game seems about 1/4 what I would expect from a town-VE I'm also highly considering Ace as scum because of his attempt to setup Bluelightz for tomorrow which I think is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing he has going for him, in my opinion, is the green check which you made on him. Zentor was an easy lynch, day 1 was an easy no-lynch, and Bluelightz is always an easy target for scum to throw suspicion on. I would also consider one of marv/phagga/sbrubbles scum, but their play needs to be scrutinized more closely before I can definitely place them. However, sbrubbles would be most likely to be town out of that group, marv/phagga is still a tossup for me. I wouldn't lynch yourself, prplhz, or Forumite. prplhz and Forumite because they went after MrZentor extremely hard the entire game and I don't think scum would do that because it looks terrible when he flips town. You, because you're trying hard to find scum... and the whole cop thing. That leaves Bluelightz and strongandbig. strongandbig's probably town and Bluelightz is actually putting in a lot of effort this game so I'd keep him around because if he's scum he'll crumble when his scumbuddy/ies start dying. Anything else? I disagree with this line of reasoning. Going after Zentor hard this game has been a very easy thing to do and him flipping town is almost irrelevant to this after the content of his posts. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 19:57 Radfield wrote: Actually, we know how the setup is derived: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ If you accept that there is no mafia roleblocker, that leaves only 3 possible setups. If you further accept that there is no Serial Killer, that only leaves 1 possible setup. Agreed? How is this helping us? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 17:32 phagga wrote: Marv: From staying under the radar to blatantly sheeping Ace, he has pretty much not put any effort into finding scum. His case on Radfield centered around Rad defending Zentor. I know people say he is a good late game player, but that's also a great excuse for a scum to just do nothing the first 3 days until it's almost too late for town. Also, there is quite some material of every player to analyze, so I don't really see why he should not try to come up with is own reads by now. That made me giggle, I'm not sure anyone said that actually ^^ I'd agree that I haven't done as much scumhunting as I'd like, I've been kinda stuck pointing out inconsistencies so far (while potentially useful, it's not really scumhunting). This game has been quite odd I feel with the no lynch day 1 followed by the practically unanimous Zentor lynch - which clogs up filters because it's quite easy to take stances on him and doesn't really indicate much imo. VE seems to come and go, often looking like he's finally ready to get involved before fading away again. People seem to be having a go at Ace for what is as far as I can see quite correct, if abrasive, logic. That said, this evening I will do my best to try to make sense of this game and hopefully find a good read. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 28 2012 00:13 Sbrubbles wrote: @Ace + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2012 10:55 Ace wrote: Ok let me try this again. BL shows up "defending" Mr.Zentor's lynch long before it happens. However, he never talks about why Zentor must be Town. I don't see it in any of his posts so if they are there show me. It's literally "I dont think a Townie would do this" which isn't a real defense. If he REALLY thinks Zentor is innocent why would he not destroy any of the posts against him? He didn't. This is why I said he comes off as Scum knowing Zentor is innocent ahead of time. He looks like he's defending Zentor but he really isn't. The second bolded doesn't make him Town. "Looking for Scum" is subjective as even Scum can look for Scum. I don't think you are looking at the big picture here. Once again, look at the chain of events the way they went down. Once you showed up with a post on VE, BL shows up with a 19 minutes later with a post calling out a Scum team of VE, Forumite and phagga. His next post after that is calling out Sbrubbles as Scum. He even tries to throw me in there and says me and Sbrubbles must be talking in QT. That's 5 players in not even a quarter of a day that he calls out before Zentor is even flipped and you want to believe he was actually Scum hunting. Seriously this is very simple: If he truly believed Zentor was Town and he is also Town then why would he focus his efforts on calling out 5 other players instead of saving Zentor? He had ample time. He also should know that calling 5 players out isn't going to lead to all of them voting for whoever he thinks is Scum. This was a feigned attempt to look like he was defending a player and attempting to find Scum when he did neither. I feel like his town Zentor read was a gut read, and, frankly, Zentor himself wasn't resisting the lynch, so it was hard to defend him. I would argue that Bluelightz's intentions were simply to not let the discussion die out. Just because there's a good candidade is in place, it doesn't mean we should cease talking. I don't agree with his reads nor how he pushes them, but I don't think he's scum. He's being erratic, but, unlike Zentor, he's being much more accusative. The last thing I think of when I look at Ace's play is erratic. Precisely the opposite in fact. | ||
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marvellosity
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Shit. Well, there was me completely misreading your post above there. Apologies | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 28 2012 09:47 Sbrubbles wrote: Or WOULD he??? It's a huge can of WIFOM we're opening right now. Still, as I argued before, VE's behavior day 1 makes a shitton of sense if you consider he was protecting marv. Either way, gonna reread Marv right now. It's not decisive one way or another, but bear in mind VisceraEyes did not know he was going to die tonight. Great shot by Snarfs though, I'd got the impression VE was a decent scum candidate but I'm not sure I'd have had the balls to shoot him. | ||
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marvellosity
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As mentioned above VE did not know he was going to die tonight, so why would he be making a case against me under the reasonable assumption that I would live? If we're playing percentages, the percentages are very much that VE is living through the night (how can he have expected to be shot?) and was setting up what he regarded as one of the easier lynches the next day. My 'stepping in to answer for VE' is in fact - 'pointing out what you should have been able to read yourself, you bloody idiot, but here I am having to do basic comprehensive skills for you'. I also thought it was quite clear that I never voted for Snarfs because I was certain of it, I voted for him because it was the best case I had read thus far. Thusly: On April 24 2012 06:58 marvellosity wrote: Although Snarfs only has one vote less than me, I'm going to unvote him and vote for the no-lynch. It has good grounding and with no-one being certain of anything it seems a decent option at this point. ##Unvote ##Vote: No Lynch The entire VE connection case is simply weak sauce. Radfield thinks I am town. If you're going to make a case, please make a case that's made of something. The entire thrust of a case against me should be that I haven't managed to scumhunt, which is an accusation I can't easily brush away. Your case however is easily brushed away based on weak circumstance and connection. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 00:48 Sbrubbles wrote: That's a possibility. But do you see any other reason why VE would accuse Rad, who he knew was gonna die? I mean, why put a lot of effort into calling Rad scummy only 3 minutes before killing him? And why he would add Marv into his accusation? I've got my theory, but I'd like to know yours, Ace. This argument is so retarded, why would VE bring focus on me one way or another? LOOK AT THE RESULT. You guys are all looking at him making a case on me going "her der bus lololol" and what have you. That is an entirely fucking predictable result, and if you don't agree, then you're being wilfully dumb. It's absolute nonsense to suggest anything VE has done with me makes me connected with him. Like I said, the case against me is not having scumhunted. All the case with VE in it is so stupid I can't even fathom. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 02:31 Snarfs wrote: To be specific marv, if you're looking for something to give your opinion on: I noticed you were asking for previous filters from Bluelightz's scum games. What did you make of that? What do you think of Ace's pressure on Bluelightz? And finally, how would you compare strongandbig's play in the newbie game you played together to this game? I will look into Bluelightz now, time got away with me last night. regarding strongandbig - he's quite good at walls of text as newbie or scum. For reference he was scum in Space station mafia. I incorrectly had a town read on him for quite a while until he failed to respond to a PM in Space Station where I felt he would have as town, so I'm not that confident in my ability to read his alignment. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 03:41 marvellosity wrote: I will look into Bluelightz now, time got away with me last night. regarding strongandbig - he's quite good at walls of text as newbie or scum. For reference he was scum in Space station mafia. I incorrectly had a town read on him for quite a while until he failed to respond to a PM in Space Station where I felt he would have as town, so I'm not that confident in my ability to read his alignment. Ok, further to this, I went over Bluelightz' filter in Aperture, I'm a Cop, and here. My read of it tells me that he is town. The reason for this is perhaps counterintuitive - in I'm a Cop, as townie, he was talking about who he viewed as town all the time. In Aperture he did not do this at all. Here again he is talking about viewing people as town. I feel his play here is more consistent with his town play than his scum play. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote: @marvellosity We're all quite aware that Bluelightz is town which is why his lynch is gaining zero momentum even though Ace is pushing it. Who is scum if not you or him? Fuck if I know atm. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 06:23 prplhz wrote: You seem to be very blunt about how you don't have any reads but that doesn't actually look town, it looks like a scum who heard someone say that being blunt is a town trait. Right now what you're saying is "I have no thoughts on the game and we should no-lynch today", and that is in no way pro-town. No, that's not what I said, and I'm not trying to look town with the way I say it. | ||
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marvellosity
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Other than people who think I'm scum, does anyone? Ace has Bluelightz... what else? | ||
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marvellosity
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I feel like the interaction between Sbrubbles and VE suggest a connection. VE pressures Sbrubbles and generally talks about him quite a lot (more than me) as part of his lurker connection. VE also calls Sbrubbles scum and a response somewhere very scummy. He keeps calling him scum when it doesn't matter and fake-pushing him. When the game is getting more serious just before VE gets shot, VE completely abandons any case on Sbrubbles to make a case on Radfield/me. From Sbrubbles perspective he puts some pressure on VE day 1, and even votes for him twice. He votes for VE but says "he will vote for zentor for a majority" - i.e. this is a safe vote on VE at the moment as he's under no risk and will happily go back to zentor. There is then his case here on me which heavily involves VE, which I find to be an interesting psychological mistake. Really, VE and Sbrubbles have been distancing themselves all game, and now VE makes a case on me and miraculously Sbrubbles makes a case on me, with quite a large part dedicated to VE. The problem with all this is that from any of you guys perspective (and also mine, I suppose) it's all WIFOM and you have no particular reason to believe me ahead of Sbrubbles. I don't have a strong scum-read in the typical 'this all reeks of mafia motivation', and I went over phagga/prplhz/forumite/sbrubbles filters. s&b I think is probably town from his posts, and I can't really read Ace very well but a lot of what he says makes sense. This leaves me with my gut read on the Sbrubbles and VE interactions that I have here. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 29 2012 09:09 Sbrubbles wrote: Forumite: + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 04:10 Forumite wrote: There´s a ton of things connecting VE to Marv. VE making a Radfield+Marv connection N2, right before shooting Radfield, effectively kills his own argument, distances him from Marv, while still making it look like VE is scumhunting and Marv is Town (because a strong case on him just got refuted). However, this is based on what VE did. Sbrubbles, did Marv do anything that connects him to VE, or do you base it only on what the flipped scum did? I haven't found anything strongly connecting Marv -> VE. Marv soft defends VE on a few occasions but nothing that stands out too much. My case is based on the VE -> Marv connection and Marv's own scumminess. Marv: + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 07:52 marvellosity wrote: My not-so-solid scumread at the moment is on Sbrubbles. Unfortunately my feelings on him make me a hypocrite with how I've attacked the case on me based on the VE connection. I feel like the interaction between Sbrubbles and VE suggest a connection. VE pressures Sbrubbles and generally talks about him quite a lot (more than me) as part of his lurker connection. VE also calls Sbrubbles scum and a response somewhere very scummy. He keeps calling him scum when it doesn't matter and fake-pushing him. Me pressuring VE on multiple occasions suggests a connection? So, calling him out and drawing attention to both him and to myself is the scummy thing to do? Also, I'd be happy if you could point out said scummy response. + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 07:52 marvellosity wrote: When the game is getting more serious just before VE gets shot, VE completely abandons any case on Sbrubbles to make a case on Radfield/me. VE tried to discredit Rad on multiple instances before N2. It makes perfect sense he'd go back to it. You, on the other hand, he brought out from thin air (or, as I believe, from the scum QT). + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 07:52 marvellosity wrote: From Sbrubbles perspective he puts some pressure on VE day 1, and even votes for him twice. He votes for VE but says "he will vote for zentor for a majority" - i.e. this is a safe vote on VE at the moment as he's under no risk and will happily go back to zentor. There is then his case here on me which heavily involves VE, which I find to be an interesting psychological mistake. Really, VE and Sbrubbles have been distancing themselves all game, and now VE makes a case on me and miraculously Sbrubbles makes a case on me, with quite a large part dedicated to VE. The problem with all this is that from any of you guys perspective (and also mine, I suppose) it's all WIFOM and you have no particular reason to believe me ahead of Sbrubbles. I don't have a strong scum-read in the typical 'this all reeks of mafia motivation', and I went over phagga/prplhz/forumite/sbrubbles filters. s&b I think is probably town from his posts, and I can't really read Ace very well but a lot of what he says makes sense. This leaves me with my gut read on the Sbrubbles and VE interactions that I have here. So, doubting, accusing and pushing equates to "distancing" now? In that case I hope to "distance" myself from every scum in this game. You're grasping at straws at this point. Re: the bold, I was simply referring to VE's comment here: On April 25 2012 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm still very interested in hearing Sbrubbles' take on everything that's going on. His response to my vote yesterday was scummy as hell in my opinion. It seemed more like he was trying to sheep Radfield and Toad's vote than an actual vote because he found me scummy. Sup Sbrubbles? I don't get your "I'm grasping at straws" comment. I'm remarking on what I've noticed, it's not a desperate defence. I also don't know why you keep saying "distancing". I don't think I say "distancing". I am remarking on the remarkable amount of interaction between you and VE. None of which came close to culminating in anything. Why so defensive? | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 30 2012 01:40 Ace wrote: Case on marv is bullshit by the way. You guys are trying to imply that a known Scum player did something that connects him with marv. Let me repeat that: A known Scum player. Trying to attach marv to some made up wifom is bs. Yup, people are pretty dumb if they think that VE would make a case on me if I were his scumbuddy. It's so stupid it hurts. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 30 2012 01:38 Ace wrote: actually I was out and about all day yesterday. Just woke up from partying but I did read your posts earlier in the morning. I think their rubbish and I'm feeling lazy. Do you want me to respond to them though? But I would certainly like you to reply to their posts, especially s&b's. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 30 2012 02:34 Snarfs wrote: Quit being a hypocrite and give me a real case on someone. I'm still fine with either a marvellosity or an Ace lynch. I think both of them need to die before lylo anyways unless they show us some actual desire to find scum. How am I being a hypocrite? I never said my comments on Sbrubbles constituted a case - only he and laughable people like you are for some reason lapping up VE's case on me that makes me scum. Get a grip. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 27 2012 10:02 Radfield wrote: I had not even realized that only 2 scum was a possibility. I was obviously reading the C9++ setup wrong. At any rate, it seems fairly likely that we don't have a lot of power roles this game. Consider: No masons, as they would've claimed No jailkeepers, as no on claimed a roleblock No vigilantes fired on N1 No Serial Killer, as there was only 1 kill(possibly overlap though) 1 1-shot Cop, likely no second full cop. No roleblockers, again as no one claimed a roleblock. This is doubly important, as combined with no SK it means we know the setup exactly: 1 Goon, 1 Godfather, 1 Town Power role(me). Unless I've messed up on reading, this is the setup. Yes, you messed up the reading, my dear departed Radfield. There were 3 scum in this game, and there are likely 3 scum in this game. Toad in Pink Dress isn't marked as scum on Page 1, but if you look at the thread he was. | ||
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On April 30 2012 02:42 Sbrubbles wrote: Think about this from a different perpective. VE had no idea he was going to die. Everything he said during the night was under the assumption that he was gonna be alive today. Tell me Ace, why did VE make a big case on Rad, who was playing strongly as town, 3 minutes before killing him and confirming him as town? And why add marvelosity to the case? Ace, you're known as a strong town player and I respect you opinion. But you're refusing to put any thought into case and it's starting to look scummy. No, you're just incapable of thinking logically. | ||
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marvellosity
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WHY INDEED, for god's sake. Look at what it's done, it's made all you fucking jubjubs convinced I'm scum BECAUSE THE SCUM MADE A CASE ON ME. God almighty. Why indeed you ask, why indeed? | ||
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marvellosity
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You say VE didn't know he was going to die. Right, that given, why would he pile pressure on an easy target in me?. I am clearly a good lynch target due to the fact I haven't scumhunted. Why the fuck the fuck would he put big pressure on me if he didn't think he was going to die? Use your bloody brains. | ||
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marvellosity
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I didn't 'try to put suspicion' on Radfield, I pointed out, using filter as evidence, the remarkable amount of times Radfield defended Zentor. There is nothing to disagree with in the post I made there. When I die, I would favour a lynch into prplhz and Sbrubbles. And whichever alignment Ace is, I hope he wins the game as he's the only guy I've really enjoyed reading the posts of this game. Snarfs - at least that's a decent case against me. I wouldn't blame you for lynching me for it, unlike the Sbrubbles and Forumite idiocy. | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 30 2012 03:58 strongandbig wrote: @Marv, you made some cases in our noob game which I ignored at the time but in hindsight were really quite good. Why haven't you made a case on anyone this game? If you had to do so now, on who would you make it? I haven't made a case because I haven't had a strong scum-read on anyone. I have stated this before. s&b - you should probably know me well enough to know that if I wanted to fabricate a decent looking case on someone, I could probably do it. And in the interests of saving my own hide, I would have done it. As above, my gut hunch is that prplhz and Sbrubbles are scum. prplhz for sheeping and stirring, and Sbrubbles because I just see something in him+VE (NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CASE. IT IS MY FEELING. IT IS WHY I HAVEN'T PUSHED FOR A SBRUBBLES LYNCH) | ||
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marvellosity
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I don't really care at this point, I've not got the energy to try to not get myself lynched. prplhz: you call s&b's filter empty and yet you seem to brush over his case on Ace? | ||
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marvellosity
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Forumite and Sbrubbles are too clueless, the game is too inactive. One of those two has got to be scum. | ||
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marvellosity
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##Vote: Sbrubbles | ||
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On April 30 2012 06:04 Forumite wrote: I thought you weren´t making a case on Sbrubbles? I wasn't, but as my only read that's where I'm going. At least when I flip it'll force you to take a look yourself, whereas a no-lynch forces nothing | ||
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marvellosity
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On April 30 2012 06:04 prplhz wrote: @marvellosity You should very seriously consider voting for yourself 1 min before deadline to secure lynch if nobody shows up. Also, we're probably going to find scum among the people who didn't show up. None of them apparently cares about lynch because we're lynching a townie anyways. I'm not lynching a confirmed townie, but as only I have that point of view, it would be silly for the rest of town to allow a no-lynch | ||
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marvellosity
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I don't really wanna lynch strongandbig either because your case was one unsubstantiated paragraph - saying his case on Ace is 'easy' because Radfield called him scum is wifomy, the other way of looking at it is that if one person saw something off in Ace, then so could strongandbig. He could be scum, but I can't push it. I only have my gut on Sbrubbles. There's no-one else likely to get lynched, so in the absence of anything better people should probably vote for me, although, obviously, I'd rather they lynched my gut read, but that's not a very convincing reason. That's all there is to it | ||
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I could probably make a decent case on any of Sbrubbles/prplhz/forumite if I actually believed in it. | ||
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marvellosity
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Hai, look at me guys, I'm the one who didn't find a read! Isn't that great! .... | ||
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On April 30 2012 07:22 strongandbig wrote: I do - but let me ask you, after the Zentor fiasco, why would you decide to start Zentoring yourself today? There were only like three solid votes on you at the point where you just gave up... BTW I actually randomly got put in a game with MrZentor on bnet. Weird. I didn't Zentor myself. In fact I stated clearly I wasn't voting for a confirmed townie in myself. I also stated my strongest gut-read is Sbrubbles. And it is probably correct that town gains more from lynching me than no-lynch, purely for the information. All this seems correct to me, I didn't 'Zentor'. | ||
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On May 06 2012 22:11 Radfield wrote: Oh yeah, the Zentor lynch was pretty bad. For all the townies who followed along and pushed that lynch, you guys need to adjust your scumhunting heuristics. It's very rare for a scum player to play a game like Zentor did, and extremely common for townies to do that. His confidence, his utter disregard for his own safety, etc were all huge town tells. I rather think it's on Zentor not to behave like a douchebag | ||
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marvellosity
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On May 07 2012 02:00 Radfield wrote: I strongly disagree. In 90% of the time it's town's fault for pushing a mislynch. Sometimes townies do things that force you to lynch them(bad claims, blatant lies), but that is typically not the case. Zentor did none of those, and displays some very clear townie traits. At the very worst you Vig players who are being disruptive, but you don't lynch them unless you think they are scum. Lynching anyone but a scum candidate(NOT an anti-town candidate, I'm making a distinction here), is a move that allows mafia to coast by for a day. ANYONE can come up with a legitimate reason for lynching play like Zentor's, which means you learn nothing from the lynch. I understand why he was lynched, and why people wanted to lynch him. I'm just saying that that is a definite area where people can improve their town play. ie sorting townie tells from scum tells, and not lynching just to get rid of or punish someone. Your argument is of course correct. However lynching players like that does at least send out the message that being a dick townie isn't an acceptable trait. Which I can live with. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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wbg's summary of me is as accurate and succinct as it needs to be | ||
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(therefore he is town.)
