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On April 27 2012 08:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't agree that BL is even a proper candidate - and I find it odd that Rad and Ace both seem to think he's the "easy lynch".
This game is...very odd. I'll post my final thoughts before dawn.
Can you post them now? You are near the top of a few scum lists that I've seen floating around so I wouldn't worry about mafia targetting you.
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On April 28 2012 05:30 Ace wrote:
Like I said in my previous post's about this topic: I tried to stop the Zentor train but everyone never bothered to read his meta or believe me.
Could you answer my question about Ace? Also, who would list as your top 3 scum candidates?
Zentor's meta is irrelevant. If he does scummy things we don't go "thats just his meta" and ignore it. That isn't even a real defense of the guy. Like seriously is anyone fucking reading around here? On one hand we have people saying he tried to keep the discussion going by naming a bunch of other suspects, on the other he says he tried to stop the Zentor train by informing us about his meta.
It can't be both. [/QUOTE]
Yes, it can. Why can't he both be trying to prevent the Zentor lynch AND keep discussion going? These do not scream mutually exclusive to me.
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EBWOP:
On April 28 2012 05:30 Ace wrote:
Zentor's meta is irrelevant. If he does scummy things we don't go "thats just his meta" and ignore it. That isn't even a real defense of the guy. Like seriously is anyone fucking reading around here? On one hand we have people saying he tried to keep the discussion going by naming a bunch of other suspects, on the other he says he tried to stop the Zentor train by informing us about his meta.
It can't be both.
Yes, it can. Why can't he both be trying to prevent the Zentor lynch AND keep discussion going? These do not scream mutually exclusive to me.
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I shot VisceraEyes. I am a one-shot vigilante (brutally honest guy).
Sorry I couldn't be on at deadline, had to drive my girlfriend around a bit to get her wisdom teeth out  .
Thanks for the good work Radfield!
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On April 28 2012 19:45 marvellosity wrote:The entire VE part of my argument is just ridiculous. All the voting on Day 1 is nonsense as VE didn't need to vote or not vote for me for me not to get lynched. As mentioned above VE did not know he was going to die tonight, so why would he be making a case against me under the reasonable assumption that I would live? If we're playing percentages, the percentages are very much that VE is living through the night (how can he have expected to be shot?) and was setting up what he regarded as one of the easier lynches the next day. My 'stepping in to answer for VE' is in fact - 'pointing out what you should have been able to read yourself, you bloody idiot, but here I am having to do basic comprehensive skills for you'. I also thought it was quite clear that I never voted for Snarfs because I was certain of it, I voted for him because it was the best case I had read thus far. Thusly: Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 06:58 marvellosity wrote:
Although Snarfs only has one vote less than me, I'm going to unvote him and vote for the no-lynch. It has good grounding and with no-one being certain of anything it seems a decent option at this point.
##Unvote
##Vote: No Lynch The entire VE connection case is simply weak sauce. Radfield thinks I am town. If you're going to make a case, please make a case that's made of something. The entire thrust of a case against me should be that I haven't managed to scumhunt, which is an accusation I can't easily brush away. Your case however is easily brushed away based on weak circumstance and connection.
marv, your entire defense is that:
1. VE didn't know he was going to be shot.
2. Radfield thinks you are town
3. That the case didn't focus on the real scummy part of your play, even though it does include that too
1 Can not be assumed. Even before sbrubbles posted his case you try really hard to make sure everyone is aware the VE didn't know he was going to get shot. You are so damn sure of it, which doesn't make sense.
I made this post meaning to imply that I, or any vigilante really, was likely to shoot VE:
On April 28 2012 05:39 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 08:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't agree that BL is even a proper candidate - and I find it odd that Rad and Ace both seem to think he's the "easy lynch".
This game is...very odd. I'll post my final thoughts before dawn. Can you post them now? You are near the top of a few scum lists that I've seen floating around so I wouldn't worry about mafia targetting you.
The bolded part specifically. Now, I'm not going to assume that VE picked up on that, but considering it was meant for him to pick up on so that I could see his defense, I'm not going to assume he didn't pick up on it either.
2 Can not be assumed either. Radfield did not see the flip, he did not have time to go back and reread the thread knowing VE was scum. Plus, even if he does think you're town, so what? Radfield is not infallible and that is a terribly contrived defense.
3 As for you claiming that Sbrubbles' case is "easily brushed away based on weak circumstance and connection": sounds like you're trying to undermine his case. He clearly mentions your lack of content and scumhunting. It is my opinion that rather than brush these parts of his case aside by claiming they're not even there, you should address them AND remedy them, or else my vote will remain on you today.
##Vote marvellosity
@strongandbig: I'd really value your input on this one since you played through the entire newbie game with marv where you were both town. What is your feeling on marvellosity?
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On April 28 2012 23:52 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 23:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 28 2012 23:09 Ace wrote:
He bussed VE? Where? He didn't, because VE is dead. I'm saying that was their plan. If VE would have lived. Probable but why didn't he begin setting up VE during Night 2 or at the very end of Day 1? There was a lot of discussion going on and VEs name was off the radar. If he wanted to bus VE that would have been the perfect time to remind everyone "hey, VE is still a top suspect".
I think it is very likely that once Radfield flipped blue (which VE and his scumbuddies would know was going to happen), VE would be the lynch target for the day, or VE knew that he was also likely to be vigged (see above). EITHER WAY, at that point it makes sense to prepare for the situation.
However, I don't think the VE case on marv is the most suspicious part of their interaction, though it does add some weight. I think you should pay close attention to day 1. You said yourself, it didn't seem like VE cared who died. Yet, he refuses to place his vote on marv, even after claiming that he would be fine with a marv vote. He draws attention to himself by doing this. The only reason I can think a scum would risk drawing attention to themselves is to save another scum. What do you think about that?
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To be specific marv, if you're looking for something to give your opinion on:
I noticed you were asking for previous filters from Bluelightz's scum games. What did you make of that?
Quick question: anyone know which games Bluelightz played scum in of late please?
What do you think of Ace's pressure on Bluelightz?
And finally, how would you compare strongandbig's play in the newbie game you played together to this game?
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On April 28 2012 19:45 marvellosity wrote:
If you're going to make a case, please make a case that's made of something. The entire thrust of a case against me should be that I haven't managed to scumhunt, which is an accusation I can't easily brush away. Your case however is easily brushed away based on weak circumstance and connection.
On April 29 2012 07:52 marvellosity wrote:
My not-so-solid scumread at the moment is on Sbrubbles. Unfortunately my feelings on him make me a hypocrite with how I've attacked the case on me based on the VE connection.
I feel like the interaction between Sbrubbles and VE suggest a connection. VE pressures Sbrubbles and generally talks about him quite a lot (more than me) as part of his lurker connection. VE also calls Sbrubbles scum and a response somewhere very scummy. He keeps calling him scum when it doesn't matter and fake-pushing him. When the game is getting more serious just before VE gets shot, VE completely abandons any case on Sbrubbles to make a case on Radfield/me.
From Sbrubbles perspective he puts some pressure on VE day 1, and even votes for him twice. He votes for VE but says "he will vote for zentor for a majority" - i.e. this is a safe vote on VE at the moment as he's under no risk and will happily go back to zentor. There is then his case here on me which heavily involves VE, which I find to be an interesting psychological mistake. Really, VE and Sbrubbles have been distancing themselves all game, and now VE makes a case on me and miraculously Sbrubbles makes a case on me, with quite a large part dedicated to VE.
The problem with all this is that from any of you guys perspective (and also mine, I suppose) it's all WIFOM and you have no particular reason to believe me ahead of Sbrubbles.
I don't have a strong scum-read in the typical 'this all reeks of mafia motivation', and I went over phagga/prplhz/forumite/sbrubbles filters. s&b I think is probably town from his posts, and I can't really read Ace very well but a lot of what he says makes sense.
This leaves me with my gut read on the Sbrubbles and VE interactions that I have here.
Quit being a hypocrite and give me a real case on someone.
I'm still fine with either a marvellosity or an Ace lynch. I think both of them need to die before lylo anyways unless they show us some actual desire to find scum.
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Hey Ace,
You think marvel is probably town right?
Do you think that this looks like scum jumping on a town wagon:
On April 29 2012 08:39 Forumite wrote:I´m here. I´m trying to make sense of this but too tired/confused. I was so close to throwing in with Sbrubbles. When I first saw the case it made perfect sense, the distancing, the Radfield+Marv case, where Rad got shot, making the case fall apart, so Marv looks town, while VE gets towncred for scumhunting. Right now I don´t know. Marv made an OMGUS on Sbrubbles, but it wasn´t an OMGUS, he´s so damn calm about it even when half the town are preparing to lynch him.
On April 30 2012 00:30 Forumite wrote:
Fuck it, I`m going with my first strong gut feeling. I'm agreeing with Sbrubbles case on Marv. I think what happened at the end of the night was that VE intentionally made a case on Rad+Marv in order to make both him and Marv look good when Radfield died. On the flipside, Marv is talking about VE a lot.
##Vote marvellosity
I´m going to be out of contact for a few hours, should be back about 2 hours before the lynch. I hope it´s enough time to consolidate our votes and avoid a no-lynch.
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On April 30 2012 03:10 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 02:54 Snarfs wrote:Hey Ace, You think marvel is probably town right? Do you think that this looks like scum jumping on a town wagon: On April 29 2012 08:39 Forumite wrote:On April 29 2012 08:29 prplhz wrote:
@Forumite You here mate? I´m here. I´m trying to make sense of this but too tired/confused. I was so close to throwing in with Sbrubbles. When I first saw the case it made perfect sense, the distancing, the Radfield+Marv case, where Rad got shot, making the case fall apart, so Marv looks town, while VE gets towncred for scumhunting. Right now I don´t know. Marv made an OMGUS on Sbrubbles, but it wasn´t an OMGUS, he´s so damn calm about it even when half the town are preparing to lynch him. On April 30 2012 00:30 Forumite wrote:
Fuck it, I`m going with my first strong gut feeling. I'm agreeing with Sbrubbles case on Marv. I think what happened at the end of the night was that VE intentionally made a case on Rad+Marv in order to make both him and Marv look good when Radfield died. On the flipside, Marv is talking about VE a lot.
##Vote marvellosity
I´m going to be out of contact for a few hours, should be back about 2 hours before the lynch. I hope it´s enough time to consolidate our votes and avoid a no-lynch. No. You quoted 2 posts hours apart where the first one looks like Forumite responding to prp about marv and the second one agreeing with Sbrubbles about marv and dropping a vote. Looks like a Townie with suspicion hours before, being convinced by a post that confirms his suspicion and he follows it through. Did you read the original way this marv wagon got started with prp calling him out?
Sbrubbles started it. prplhz and I agreed that marv hasn't done anything this game. Forumite gets all wishy-washy, then goes with a "gut read". That's how I read it. Anyways, doesn't actually matter if marv doesn't flip town.
Ignoring all the VE-marv interaction WIFOM. What do we have with marv?
We have a guy who is in danger of getting lynched day 1, so promises future content for living now: [click]
Uses contradicting "observations" to explain why people are voting for him in order to convince people that voting for him is not legitimate: [click]
Tries to put suspicion on Radfield for thinking MrZentor is town (WIFOM): [click, click]
Despite promising future content, does not provide any until pressed to do so: [click, click]
And finally, when giving content, contradicts himself by creating a case against someone based entirely on connections, when he stated himself that the case on him was weak as shit based on connections: [click]
Tell me Ace, and anybody not voting marv for that matter, where in all of this, do you see town?
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Man, I'd be down for a prplhz lynch for these shenanigans.
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In what world does a town player waltz in 2.5 hours before a lynch when there's no guarantee that all the players will get online before the deadline, and propose that we lynch someone who hasn't been discussed at all for the last day and a half rather than one of the two people who have been discussed for the entire day cycle, whose lynches we could stand to gain a ton of information from, whether they flip town or scum?
prplhz, if you're not scum, I will eat blazinghand's hat.
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And now if marvellosity flips town, you've set yourself up perfectly to gain town cred. This play reeks of scum. I don't even know what to say/do. Are you serious?
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Sure, there are no "information lynches", but that doesn't mean that there are no lynches which give us information if the suspect flips town. What happens now if 2 people come back and vote strongandbig and then leave, and we end up with another no-lynch today?
strongandbig wasn't even being considered by anyone except by you, apparently. I had a look back over his filter and the context of his posts and in no way do I see a scum motive. Again, you try to setup tomorrow's lynch at the end of today and cause a bunch of confusion. This is the second time that you've done this this game! I ask you again, are you serious!?
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Sorry prplhz, if you're town I just think it's kind of a dumb move. Why strongandbig rather than phagga, marv, Ace, bluelightz... anyone we actually have discussion about? What do you think we can learn from a sudden switch to strongandbig? It just... doesn't make sense.
Let me just walk away from the thread for a minute to clear my head.
Also, it's not "my lynch" that you're stomping on.
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I'm going to sleep on a case I have and post in the morning if I still feel it's relevant. I'm too tired to make that decision right now.
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Thoughts on the game so far. Please feel free to ask me any questions you can before the deadline, I’ll try and reply throughout the day when I can make some time.
Snarfs' Night 3 Thoughts
Read the whole thing. It's important.
prplhz and Ace are the remaining scum
1. prplhz
The bulk of my case is on his day 3 actions. However, for completeness I have analyzed his play chronologically. Please read it all.
Day 1:
prplhz starts by saying that MrZentor is the lynch of the day: [click]
However, 18 minutes after strongandbig makes a large case on me, he votes me without a single question about the case, nor a comment on why he's voting me: [click]
5 hours later after asked about it, he gives a very weak reason: [click]
Why would a town prplhz not try to be very clear about his reasoning or question why/who he is voting?
He doesn't even question me at all! He spends the entire first day asking MrZentor to explain himself for his crazy, erratic behaviour, but he doesn't ask me a single question, nor does he address my response to strongandbig's case at all. He doesn't care about finding out if I'm actually town.
Then, he goes back to questioning MrZentor!
Finally 4 minutes before the deadline, he posts a rebuttal to MrZentor's case. click. The timing of this rebuttal is really bad.
From a mafia mindset, he is trying to set up the next days lynch early so that there will be as little discussion as possible. There is no town motivation to do this. Only two possible scenarios arise: a massive voteswitch to MrZentor from which town gains no information and mislynches another town, or maybe some town switches but nothing else happens and we no-lynch (which is what happens).
If he had actually wanted MrZentor lynched and believed he was scum, he would have posted his case earlier in the day, when he admits he had written it. Otherwise, town has nothing to learn from MrZentor’s lynch.
His excuse is that he "didn't know if [he] wanted to lynch MrZentor" [click]. This is not a town excuse.
Two things wrong with it: a) His post doesn't even call MrZentor scum. It just outlines how weak of a case MrZentor wrote on prplhz. A weak case is not a reason to lynch someone.
b) He's searching for a reason to lynch MrZentor rather than trying to prove that he's scum. This is a mafia mindset.
Day 2
prplhz is barely around and goes into lurky-scum mode. He drops his vote on MrZentor then pretty much lurks through the entire day.
In the few contributions he makes, he still manages to both try to prevent discussion of reads AND defend VE from Radfield's case: [click]
Day 3
If you can read through prplhz's day 3 and come up with any reasoning for what he says and why that makes him town, then I would be amazed. I'll just point out some highlights, but seriously, everyone should reread from about 2.5 hours before the day 3 lynch. It’s very hard to find any town motivation to suggest strongandbig as a lynch candidate, and then try to push him without any discussion.
Keep in mind that one of the goals of a mafia team is to deny town information. By lynching marvellosity we gained a lot of information. By lynching strongandbig, or by no-lynching, town gains zero information. I’ve made a note at the bottom of this post about why no-lynching here can help mafia win this game.
First off, notice the contradictions prplhz makes. He is saying one thing while doing the complete opposite. He claims repeatedly (4 times) that he doesn't want another no-lynch, yet pushes extremely hard to convince people to switch their votes off marvellosity.
I'm going to lynch marvellosity if he's the alternative though 'cause I don't want another day1 no-lynch fiasco.
As I already said, I'll mislynch marvellosity just to avoid a day1 fiasco.
I said in my very first post 20 minutes ago that I would prefer lynching marvellosity over a no-lynch because that sucked on day1. How the hell is that trying to force no-lynch or derail discussion?
@marvellosity You should very seriously consider voting for yourself 1 min before deadline to secure lynch if nobody shows up.
Then, in the end of the day, he does not follow through with his word and ends up voting Sbrubbles: [click]
This is very similar to VisceraEyes’ play on day 1, something that stood out to other players (Radfield and myself included).
Second, notice how, for someone so concerned about making sure we don't no-lynch, he does not care to get organized enough to get people to agree on a lynch target.
He starts out by trying to get everyone to consolidate on strongandbig (which I highly doubt he thinks will actually happen), but then 40 minutes before the deadline starts grasping for straws, asking for anybody else to lynch, including throwing out phagga's name: "who the hell knows what phagga is really? He could easily be scum so lets lynch him." [click]
Now, if this was a town prplhz, he might very well believe that marvel is town and be trying to convince others to switch to a new target, and I’m sure this is what he’ll argue. However, in this situation, how would attempting to lynch strongandbig and phagga, two people with zero votes on them and no discussion throughout the day, make more sense than lynching Ace, whom people are willing to consolidate on? Personally, I don’t think that prplhz thinks a switch to phagga in the last 40 minutes is actually likely, and I believe that he is looking for one or two people to switch and cause a no-lynch (see end of post for reasons).
Third, prplhz is so damn sure that marvellosity is town.
-He starts out by repeating that he doesn't think marvellosity is scum: [click, click]
-Then all out claims that marv is town: [click, click]
I'm town and I was not even close to as sure marvellosity is town as prplhz seems to be here. Sure, I thought there was a pretty good chance near the end of the day, but I still had nagging doubts that would best be served by letting the lynch happen. I'm sure most of my fellow town players did as well. However, prplhz knew for damn sure that marvellosity was town. The only way that is possible is if he's scum.
Fourth, his case on strongandbig was clearly thrown together in about the 30 seconds he had when he realized that I was around to call him out on his vote and that I wasn't going to stand for it.
-prplhz's case on strongandbig: "his filter is empty, his posting style is weird and he has not been called out yet." [click]
The entire case is weak and I'll tell you why scum make up weak cases in case you don't already know. He needs to sow some seeds of doubt about at least one or two other town players in order to win this game. He knows the case is weak. That's why it looks as weak as it does.
-First of all, strongandbig's contributions were not empty. Reread his filter. Even if you believe that what strongandbig has written qualifies as empty, you could look at both marvellosity and phagga and find even more empty filters. Which is weird because prplhz knows that marvellosity is town. So, why strongandbig? It doesn’t make sense, even if prplhz believes what he’s telling us he believes.
-Second, "his posting style is weird and he has not been called out yet" is not a legitimate scum-tell and prplhz knows that.
This is the same kind of weak case that VE had on Sbrubbles during day 1. It doesn't make sense because if you look at the criteria by which prplhz is judging strongandbig, you find 2 other players who match the same criteria, but to a stronger extent - one of whom is about to be lynched.
Also, when strongandbig replies to prplhz's “case”, strongandbig quite adequately (if we're comparing, again to marvellosity who somehow proved to prplhz that he was town) defends himself and all prplhz replies is:
@strongandbig Read your rebuttal, still think you're scum.
prplhz just dismisses strongandbig because prplhz knows that the case is made up so he pretty much has to stick to it no matter what.
Again though, suppose that prplhz actually believes that there’s a chance strongandbig is mafia. Why dismiss his rebuttal so offhandedly when there are an additional 5 players who could also be the mafia members?
If I had another vig shot tonight, it would be aimed straight at prplhz.
2. Ace
I think the cases on Ace have already been made, but I think everyone should seriously consider the end of day 3 as a big red mark beside his name.
To summarize the case:
-More than happy to spend day 1 talking about mechanics.
-Rather than willingly offer up information, he only answers questions which are asked of him.
-Shows up 10 minutes before deadline to throw a vote on someone not going to be lynched day 1.
-Votes MrZentor day 2 but refuses to talk about other scumreads.
-Leaves a vote on bluelightz all of day 3, again without discussing other scumreads even when it's apparent bluelightz won't be lynched. Shows up only to defend himself.
-Shows up in a whirlwind at the end of day 3, demanding that everyone unvote marvellosity because it’s “more than likely that he’s town” which is the opposite behaviour he showed on day 2 with the Zentor lynch
Some more evidence:
-Is a very intelligent mafia player and probably realizes that no-lynching benefits mafia more than town in this situation (see end of post), then clearly attempts to cause a no-lynch
Why do I assume he tries to cause a no-lynch? Ask yourself, do you believe that Ace really believed that everyone would switch to phagga at the end of the day?
Why does Ace ask everyone to switch to phagga? Because he comes in at the end of the day and places a vote on marvellosity (which by the way ensures that town gains information from his lynch), while only saying that the explanation was to come.
What’s wrong with this?
First off, he doesn’t actually let phagga explain his vote.
Second, why would scum do the most blatantly obvious, attention grabbing thing in the game by hammering a towny a couple minutes before deadline?
Third, again, what do we have to gain from a last second vote switch to phagga? Even if it succeeds, town has very little information. I refuse to believe that Ace did not think of this.
I refuse to believe that Ace spend the entire day 3 sitting behind a vote on bluelightz, not suggesting any other scum reads, only to show up at the last second and vote phagga.
Why do I refuse to believe this? Because this is the Ace who spouts that we should “focus on the lynch at hand”. He lives by this. How is a last second vote switch to phagga in any way focussing on the lynch at hand?
If anyone besides Ace actually wants some quotes to back these up I can do some copy-pasting during lunch tomorrow (and no, Ace, I don't need you to reply. I've seen your replies already and I'm not satisfied).
Important lynch mechanics
First, and relevant to the above, is a note on the no-lynch vs. mislynch mechanics.
During day 3, it benefits mafia much more than town to cause a no-lynch rather than a mislynch. The only thing town has to gain is another no-lynch, which they have to use in order for it to be remotely beneficial. Even then, you are sacrificing a confirmed alignment of a suspicious player for an extra day where that player is still alive.
The tradeoff is this:
- 2 suspicious town members dead, 2 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 5 (3:2 town:scum)
vs
- 1 suspicious town member dead, 3 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 6 (3:2 town:scum
Scum would much rather be in charge of which town members are dying than letting town kill off their most suspicious reads to work their way towards lynching red. Especially when one of those town members is a town-vigilante ("confirmed" town).
And remember, the second option only occurs if town actually no-lynches a second time. If mafia can convince town to mislynch twice in two days, then no-lynching on day 3 was a huge win for them.
That is why I have strong reason to believe that prplhz and Ace are the remaining scum.
NB: It is not just because they voted for a no-lynch on day 3 (in fact, they didn’t and town could have been justified in doing so), but indeed partly because they actively pushed for it to happen without actually saying that they were okay with a no-lynch. As I said above, prplhz claimed several times he didn’t want a no-lynch. He left it pretty damn close for someone so sure.
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On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote:
My cases are always short and always weak, that's probably one of the reasons nobody ever listens to me. I could mention my case on MrZentor in Death Factory Mafia 2, you can go read that. It's a more wordy version of the case I have on strongandbig right now but it's pretty much the same. Or you can look at the case I made on Artanis[Xp] in TL Mafia LVI, that was equally "weak". You can also look at how I just dismiss Artanis[Xp]'s defense in that game, I'm pretty sure he is scum and I don't want to argue shit with him. I know my case is "weak" because I can't really explain it any more to you than what I've already done. The most important thing I'm doing is that I'm pointing out that he is scum and telling you to read his filter and then that should convince.
Okay, but why strongandbig? Why NOT marvellosity? Go through each of the points of your case and tell me how they apply to strongandbig more than: Ace, marvellosity, phagga, and Sbrubbles. How are you now convinced that strongandbig is scum when clearly there is some town in that group? I don't see it. How was marvellosity guaranteed town to you and why was it more important to try and drum together a bandwagon on someone else than lynching someone whom I think 5 town members were suspicious of?
I'm also perfectly aware that my day1 and day2 were ruined by some guy who decided to make those a horrible experience for me by demonstratively being a douchebag. That's also why I had a break day2, I couldn't read one more of his posts after the "Why are you even playing this game?" post so I took some time off of teamliquid.net. All I can say is that I'm pretty sure that strongandbig is scum and now I'm pushing it as hard as I can.
As for the "he's trying to set up day2 lynch", why is that even scum? I'm never trying to ruin discussion (and we have always had plenty of time for that even though he didn't use it all that well), I was telling Radfield that we were lynching MrZentor as a way of pushing MrZentor. I didn't want people to leave his lynch and if I didn't fight for it then it might not happen.
The stuff surrounding MrZentor is very tough to read. I admit it is weaker than some of the other parts of the case.
A problem though, is that you were not around day 2 to discuss other scum targets, even though it was clear almost from the beginning of the day that MrZentor was probably going to be lynched.
Even though you are really tunneling me right here you played a pretty good game, I was absolutely sure that you were town even before your shot on VisceraEyes and that shot was also really nice.
Can you explain to me, at what point between voting me day 1 and my shot on VE that you became absolutely sure that I was town?
For people reading Snarfs' case on me, don't ask yourself "Is this scum?", because you can always find a way to spin something as scummy (which Snarfs shows quite skillfully in his analysis of me), you should ask yourself "Is this something scum is likely to do?" and then you should read my filter. And ask me questions 'cause I'm around.
By all means, that is why I posted the case now. So people have time to ask both of us questions and so that I had time to respond to your response.
What about the promises to "mislynch" marvellosity in order to ensure a no-lynch doesn't occur, then not following through on that? How is that town behaviour? Town needs the information and scum wants to deny it.
What was with the weird desperation you showed in the last hour before the lynch to find a new target? How could that have been more beneficial for town than a marvellosity lynch?
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EPT
