EPTI'm a cop you idiot mafia
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
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Tunkeg
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Tunkeg
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Tunkeg
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COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On April 14 2012 07:22 Dirkzor wrote: Hello  drunk and sleepy. Game filled up fast... Lets kill scum okay? good night! Drunk players are the best, they say it as it is. Any inputs on my cop claim? | ||
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Tunkeg
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On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! | ||
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Tunkeg
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On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum. I don't care what you think  We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check | ||
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Tunkeg
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On April 14 2012 09:43 Blazinghand wrote: All I need to do is find your scumbuddy and town wins this ez. I think I know what's going to happen here though: You're gonna claim you checked the guy who you're shooting N0. He'll wind up dead and you won't "give" any info to town, and if the medic saves him, you're just corroborating an already-confirmed town info. Hehe, you so funny | ||
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On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield. Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. | ||
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On April 14 2012 09:59 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not sure I fully understand these two sentences. You wouldn't suggest an n0 cop claim as scum... but if you are not to claim, you will... pretend to be a VT, then leave the thread? Isn't that what you did? I'm honored <3 As a scum I wouldn't have posted what I did in my opening posts, thats all I am saying. I would advocate all the cons, but none of the pros if anyone were to bring it up. You guys can't know this for sure, but I am just saying. When no one started discussing it as soon as the game was up, I was thinking town will never agree upon a cop claim before I got to go to bed anyway. The best way for me is to just "leave" the thread and wait for a bit before I post my nightaction, so that not me leaving happends and then nightpost happends straight after. That would lead scum to understand I was scum, and town not to know. I will honor you even more if you manage to pull of a win on this BH, then I will tip my hat to you | ||
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Tunkeg
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Haha, just between me and you BH, this is pretty funny knowing one of us is lying his ass off | ||
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On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team. Well, there you have an input at least | ||
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Tunkeg
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Best start to a mafiagame ever (that I've been in). Good night, and good luck. Leaving for reals this time. | ||
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Also the key to reading our claims as both Radfield and Dirkzor have pointed out before me is how the claim is made. I make a post willing to discuss it before considering to claim (Post game note: I think a cop never should claim without the support of the town first in this kind of setup). I sort of give up claiming n0 because of not everyone beeing able to chip in and I "leave" the thread. I counterclaim once there is a claim. This way of playing do not indicate a townclaim or scumclaim. I would say if I as a scum were to post my first post (which I have stated before I wouldn't) I would probably follow it up in the same manner I did. What I think is to be focused on is BH's claim: He starts his posting with: On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. Saying Cop should claim period. If he was cop he should be his own logic just claim straight from the get go. But he doesn't meaning he wants to discuss it. If he wants to discuss it he should wait for more players to chip in but he doesn't, he doesn't even follow Radfields advice to wait before claiming: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. He then proceeds to say his logic is to DISCUSS whether or not he should cop claim, when in fact such discussion never happened: On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? I think this should tell you that his claim is the false one, and that it is damn sure more likely for scum to do a claim this way then a townie to do it this way. I am biased though because I know the truth here, so do BH and his scumbuddy, but I think this is the greatest indicator of who is scum and who is not. | ||
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Tunkeg
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You say: "Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ". The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above. You also say: Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic. I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter. | ||
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On April 14 2012 18:13 Dirkzor wrote: I just don't understand why you'd have to lie about going to bed. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stop posting? It seemed you wanted to lure a reaction but at the same time you later wrote that you didn't think scum would claim cop so it just doesn't add up. The cop claim is already on the spotlight due the nature of the setup and the name. There is no avoiding a cop claim at some point during this game. All we had to figure out was when it was the best time to claim. So I don't agree with you here at all. With your logic anyone who talked about the cop claim and tried to figure out how it worked best/worst for us is town? Or am I mistaken here? Or is it only because you were the first one to bring it up that you are town? As I brought up the subject of the cop claim I think it is only fair to say when you leave. Starting a discussion and then just not answering isn't right in my book. Reason for not going to bed straight away was that I wanted to put some distance between the sending in of my n0 action, and my departure from the thread, just to not make it obv to scum that I got nightactions. If BH had waited lets say 20 more minutes before he claimed I wouldn't have been around. Were closing up a Dota2 and were waiting to respawn when I refreshed the thread and saw the claim. I was by no means sticking around for the counterclaim (but more so for a possible nightpost and a pm with my check, after I sent in my nightactions). I agree that a copclaim have to come eventually in this setup. But my logic is that it would be better for scum not to have it happening on n0. My logic is (although I am biased as hell in this) that scum would not be the one who bring this up early in n0, when first brought up they can swing whatever way (for or against), but I would definately not bring any attention to it if it weren't previously mentioned. Now I don't think BH thought I was the cop, and that this caught him offguard. This is also why I think his post after my counterclaim is abit inconsistent with his actual claim (saying he wanted to discuss it before doing it and so). His claim would have been way stronger if someone who had not previously talked about it was the cop. In fact if they had a single suspicion about me being cop he would just not do it, and just kill me as I would never had gotten a doc protection n0 in this lineup. | ||
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On April 14 2012 18:34 Dirkzor wrote: If you think it was bad for scum that the cop claimed n0 why didn't you claim? Why wait? Because I wanted the towns input on this. In a game like this I think not just the cop should decide when to claim. There is both pros and cons, I clearly thinking more pros than cons. But again my decision alone shouldn't decide whether I claim or not. | ||
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On April 14 2012 18:40 wherebugsgo wrote: there is no reason not to claim as cop. The faster you claim the harder it is for scum to CC IMO. It's not much usually but it's something (e.g. scum would have to choose which player CCs and stuff) Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go. I don't want to fuck up the game by doing something not thought through. Hopefully post game discussion can give a clear guideline to what is optimal play though. | ||
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Don't want these two posts to get burried as they are good posts on what happened with the claim and the counter claim: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=6#110 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=6#115 | ||
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Obs QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/rkYCZpYtCmk7g | ||
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Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize. And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad. | ||
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On April 18 2012 19:48 Dirkzor wrote: BH spamming and me calling it out was intentional. Was about to point out that BL interacted with BH spam-fest making BL more scum... I decided against it though. I'm looking forward to radfields take on this... looking through the scum qt it seemed I fooled a lot of people I don't understand how people could find radfield scummy at all. Everything he posted made so much sense even though he was wrong.... Radfield was to good as a townie. His reads were almost to perfect early on, which is why some of us got suspicious of him. What should have made me stop suspecting him though was him pushing for a no-lynch on day 2, which clearly is very town favored. Also you were basicly a Radfield light in this game, so if there was no way he should be scum, there should be no way you could be scum. Most scummy thing you did in the game was the halleluja post you made about Radfields last analysis post. And I said in obs QT if Radfield die Dirk is scum because of it. But I changed my mind, so it doesn't really count. | ||
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On April 18 2012 20:34 Bluelightz wrote: Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me. EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town! Well you were the only player ingame to figure out the secound scum, that have to count for something, right? | ||
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