Space Station Mafia

On April 13 2012 09:51 wherebugsgo wrote:


you can see the mafia QT?

On April 13 2012 09:55 marvellosity wrote:


Zentor, why so serious

On April 13 2012 10:13 chaoser wrote:


can't even put in the effort to write up your own thing. not mayor material imo.

##vote sandroba for captain

On April 13 2012 10:48 Jackal58 wrote:
So Sandroba, GMarshall and Chaoser walked into a scum bar..................

On April 13 2012 23:57 Acrofales wrote:

All you need to do now is convince me you're town!

On April 14 2012 00:23 GMarshal wrote:

Right now?

VayeshMoru has done squat, and has only trolled, good lynch on the basis of taking out the trash.

Once the mayoral candidates have solidified, probably one of those, since scum are very likely to try to run, especially if they don't know what other bonuses the captain might get.




So, you aren't going to take responsibility for anything? I don't want you near the captains seat.

Also you are fear-mongering, by that argument, we would have to lynch Ace day 1 every game he plays in as he is terribly damaging as scum, much more than what he contributes as town! Its a stupid argument, so don't make it, this game isn't about "reducing damage" its about getting scum lynched, and your method currently sucks for getting scum.

On April 14 2012 01:20 sandroba wrote:

Not to argue pointless things but matchew jailed me to protect me. And you should regret it and learn from your mistakes. I don't give a fuck about being vet, I care about being right, as should you. And you should care about winning too. I really don't care about how people perceive me, I only do whatever I feel like it's going to help the most to win the current game. We can be nice to each other after the game is over. =)

On April 14 2012 22:30 Acrofales wrote:

Then why are you voting for Ace. You should be voting for a random person among the lurkers. They clearly don't want the captaincy, they're not even making a campaign! Or, if you don't like the lurkers, vote for Rayzor. He's managed to put his name forward and say he's a bad candidate in the same sentence! My bullshit detector is in overdrive here.

Why are you voting for Ace?

On April 15 2012 02:55 grush57 wrote:
Mr Zentor is my scummiest read right now. He wanted to be captain, failed, wants to decide who to lynch, and is voting Ace because he wants Ace to vote Acrofales which is questioning him. Plus, he has to post a post saying that he is leaving, which there is no point to suggesting he is trying to be active seeming like a townie. Probably a puppet of a vet.

On April 15 2012 02:55 chaoser wrote:
Still for a sandroba captaincy. I've been fairly active in PMs so that's why I haven't been posting in thread a lot

I want a lynch on zentor. I'm too lazy to summarize it so I'mma just copy/paste my reasons from a Skype convo

gahhhh, waiting for drh to get back to me is annoying. I'mma post it and if i get modkilled so be it

[1:06:58 PM] Chaosers: i'm ok with a zentor lynch
[1:08:02 PM] : because he wants to lynch you?
[1:08:17 PM] Chaosers: i didn't even know he wanted to lynch me
[1:08:18 PM] Chaosers: lol
[1:08:20 PM] Chaosers: "GM, as annoying as sand is being right now, I think ET seems the scummiest right now, so I would kill him, but it is really difficult to have an accurate read yet."
[1:08:24 PM] Chaosers: cause of that
[1:08:38 PM] Chaosers: and the fact that he tried to derail thread by talking about what happened in GoT
[1:09:08 PM] Chaosers: he's trying to get people to not trust sandroba
[1:09:12 PM] : ok. quite similar reasons to what i had for engaging him in conversation, lol
[1:09:15 PM] Chaosers: and running a "counter" campaign
[1:09:26 PM] Chaosers: based on being transparent
[1:09:36 PM] Chaosers: but then he says the exact same thing as sandro
[1:09:50 PM] Chaosers: but tries to sell it as if he's completely opposite him in stances
[1:10:12 PM] Chaosers: "i will follow town's vote for N1 lynch...unless I don't think they're right"
[1:12:39 PM] Chaosers: i'm on page 17
[1:12:51 PM] Chaosers: i think he's scummy and the best lynch for today
[1:12:56 PM] Chaosers: but even if he turns out to be not scum
[1:13:01 PM] Chaosers: it's still an ok lynch for me for night 1
[1:13:09 PM] Chaosers: cause he's being vry disruptive
[1:13:17 PM] Chaosers: and he's misrepresenting people
[1:18:14 PM] Chaosers: that's like the most scummy thing to do imo, misrepresneting people

On April 15 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
So since I wrote my last post, I've looked again at Mr.Zentor's brief run for captain, and rather than being suspicious it now seems downright scummy to me.

If you look at the context of his posts, they go like this.

He started his joke campaign near the beginning of the thread, when a lot of other people were starting joke campaigns - people including GMarshal, EchelonTee, and RazorFlash. A pretty good way to make an impression as being active without actually saying anything of value.

However, now look at his first "serious" campaign post. A few things look scummy to me.

First, there's the commitment to lynch whoever the thread picks, unless he's sure that someone else is scum. Now as other people have pointed out, that's a good scum move - the odds of the thread picking scum on day 1 are relatively low, and if they did pick scum, Zentor would be able to pick someone else. Sure, he would have to rationalize that the next day, but if he made a good enough case on whoever he did pick, it would give the scum team a better shot than just having whichever team member the thread chose killed with the day 1 lynch.

Also, it's worth noting that Zentor is one of the only people who brought up this idea of doing a poll - it wasn't being demanded by the thread. At the time that he posted, there was a debate going on between Sandroba, myself, and earlier others including Ace and l10f about whether or not the Captain should pledge to reveal all the information that came with the role - but there wasn't a consensus or even a movement towards demanding that the captain be democratic with the lynch. What I and, I think, others were asking for was a Captain who would listen to the thread's cases and explain the reasoning behind his choice for the lynch - but not someone who would just bow to the people. While that could be a reasonable sentiment, it's also exactly the kind of Captaincy that scum would want to have - one that doesn't give them any responsibility.

Now, let me note one other thing. When Zentor posted his four-point "serious campaign" post, changing from a joke candidate to a serious one, the captaincy race was a one-man show. Sandroba had four votes and no one else had more than one. GMarshal's post where he posted his skype info and indicated that he was running for real was within ten minutes before Zentor put up his post, and GMarshal still didn't have any votes. My contention is that this would have looked like the last shot for a scum candidate to get into the race. There was a very good chance that the election would have just snowballed into a coronation for Sandroba, instead of a competitive race. The timing of Zentor's entry as a serious candidate makes me think that he was put forward by the scum team in an effort to keep the race competitive, when it looked like Sandroba was going to run away with it. (Now let me say here that I'm not convinced that Sandroba's autocratic method is best, or even that he's town; that's why I'm voting for GMarshal. However, it looks unlikely that Sandroba and Zentor are both town, and I think Zentor is way scummier.)

After that one post about being a serious candidate, there were some other posts about the campaign, but Zentor seems to have trailed off with his campaign when it didn't pick up any momentum. However, he hasn't done anything really pro-town since that time, as people above have pointed out. But I wanted to focus on his campaign specifically, since I don't think it's been brought up enough and it smells really scummy to me.

In conclusion: Mr.Zentor is scum.



PS: As usual, I don't know whether or not other people have posted using faster methods as I type this post. Just to establish context, as I started typing this the last post I see in the thread is by risk.nuke about running the noob mini and studying for exams. Sorry if I got ninja'd anything here isn't relevant anymore.

First, there's the commitment to lynch whoever the thread picks, unless he's sure that someone else is scum. Now as other people have pointed out, that's a good scum move - the odds of the thread picking scum on day 1 are relatively low, and if they did pick scum, Zentor would be able to pick someone else. Sure, he would have to rationalize that the next day, but if he made a good enough case on whoever he did pick, it would give the scum team a better shot than just having whichever team member the thread chose killed with the day 1 lynch.

Also, it's worth noting that Zentor is one of the only people who brought up this idea of doing a poll - it wasn't being demanded by the thread. At the time that he posted, there was a debate going on between Sandroba, myself, and earlier others including Ace and l10f about whether or not the Captain should pledge to reveal all the information that came with the role - but there wasn't a consensus or even a movement towards demanding that the captain be democratic with the lynch. What I and, I think, others were asking for was a Captain who would listen to the thread's cases and explain the reasoning behind his choice for the lynch - but not someone who would just bow to the people. While that could be a reasonable sentiment, it's also exactly the kind of Captaincy that scum would want to have - one that doesn't give them any responsibility.

Now, let me note one other thing. When Zentor posted his four-point "serious campaign" post, changing from a joke candidate to a serious one, the captaincy race was a one-man show. Sandroba had four votes and no one else had more than one. GMarshal's post where he posted his skype info and indicated that he was running for real was within ten minutes before Zentor put up his post, and GMarshal still didn't have any votes. My contention is that this would have looked like the last shot for a scum candidate to get into the race. There was a very good chance that the election would have just snowballed into a coronation for Sandroba, instead of a competitive race. The timing of Zentor's entry as a serious candidate makes me think that he was put forward by the scum team in an effort to keep the race competitive, when it looked like Sandroba was going to run away with it. (Now let me say here that I'm not convinced that Sandroba's autocratic method is best, or even that he's town; that's why I'm voting for GMarshal. However, it looks unlikely that Sandroba and Zentor are both town, and I think Zentor is way scummier.)

On April 13 2012 09:55 chaoser wrote:


WTF is the point of this? No pressure, no direction, no stance taken by anyone.

Hi Mafia. See, that's how to start a game.

##vote: michaelthe

On April 13 2012 09:58 chaoser wrote:


goddamnit...ok, i'mma go finish watching the heat/bulls game and then come back lol

On April 15 2012 02:55 chaoser wrote:
Still for a sandroba captaincy. I've been fairly active in PMs so that's why I haven't been posting in thread a lot

I want a lynch on zentor. I'm too lazy to summarize it so I'mma just copy/paste my reasons from a Skype convo

gahhhh, waiting for drh to get back to me is annoying. I'mma post it and if i get modkilled so be it

[1:06:58 PM] Chaosers: i'm ok with a zentor lynch
[1:08:02 PM] : because he wants to lynch you?
[1:08:17 PM] Chaosers: i didn't even know he wanted to lynch me
[1:08:18 PM] Chaosers: lol
[1:08:20 PM] Chaosers: "GM, as annoying as sand is being right now, I think ET seems the scummiest right now, so I would kill him, but it is really difficult to have an accurate read yet."
[1:08:24 PM] Chaosers: cause of that
[1:08:38 PM] Chaosers: and the fact that he tried to derail thread by talking about what happened in GoT
[1:09:08 PM] Chaosers: he's trying to get people to not trust sandroba
[1:09:12 PM] : ok. quite similar reasons to what i had for engaging him in conversation, lol
[1:09:15 PM] Chaosers: and running a "counter" campaign
[1:09:26 PM] Chaosers: based on being transparent
[1:09:36 PM] Chaosers: but then he says the exact same thing as sandro
[1:09:50 PM] Chaosers: but tries to sell it as if he's completely opposite him in stances
[1:10:12 PM] Chaosers: "i will follow town's vote for N1 lynch...unless I don't think they're right"
[1:12:39 PM] Chaosers: i'm on page 17
[1:12:51 PM] Chaosers: i think he's scummy and the best lynch for today
[1:12:56 PM] Chaosers: but even if he turns out to be not scum
[1:13:01 PM] Chaosers: it's still an ok lynch for me for night 1
[1:13:09 PM] Chaosers: cause he's being vry disruptive
[1:13:17 PM] Chaosers: and he's misrepresenting people
[1:18:14 PM] Chaosers: that's like the most scummy thing to do imo, misrepresneting people

On April 15 2012 04:08 chaoser wrote:
yawn zentor, it's not me who you should be appealing to but rather one of the few people that are running for captain. This is a PM game after all. Posts in thread do not signal a person's activity. Your posts though, do show that you have been acting very scummy.



That's WIFOM though. Using bad play to excuse oneself? wtf...how does that make any sense? I'm playing too badly in this game to be scum is a ridiculous assertion. I hedged GoT game on that fact that people would overlook my team's bad play as "to bad to be mafia" and it worked. What do you think of his misrepresentation as well as his bullshit noncommittal stance on ET?

And now he's only coming back to defend himself against allegations in a way that he's trying to paint everyone against him as somehow scummy.

On April 15 2012 10:25 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, so you didn't throw it away on node. You threw it away on Ace. Big difference. Don't even try to tell me you believed Ace had a shot of beeing elected.

Here is a thought for you. Quit trying to generate discussion and discuss. There is plenty if you look for it.

Also MrZentor posts a lot and he gets people to post, so I'd rather try to make people who don't post much like Errandor and Senjai post what they think.

I am talking exclusively about clues that exist in PMs you get from me. The message in the day post is a different animal entirely and you will be given no guidance or advice on figuring it out.

On April 13 2012 16:19 l10f wrote:
Agree with Ace. We're much better off electing someone who'll tell us everything that comes with being a captain than someone who gives the best lynch case. It's almost always better for things to be transparent and public knowledge.

It's hard to come up with a good lynch on day 1 when we have almost nothing to go on. On the other hand, the mafia know exactly who to lynch for obvious reasons. It's easier for them to pick specific lynch targets to earn our favor.

So let's vote someone who promises complete transparency to us.

Also if you're running for captaincy, please clearly state it.

On April 15 2012 05:29 l10f wrote:
I ain't a lurker, I was just busy/having fun

I'm going to vote for GMarshal. He and sandroba being very active and outgoing shows that they're probably town. I wouldn't mind either of them being the captain, but I'm picking GMarshal over sandroba because he seems to have a clearer direction for town and I agree with voting off non-active player for the first lynch.

MrZentor you seem to be just trying to convince town that you're not scum but by reacting so strongly to every accusation you get you seem defensive. I'm not convinced he's scum 100% but he seems to be very suspicious.

I'm elteneff on skype if anyone wants to have a conversation ^_^

I've received 4 PM's so far, sorry for not responding because I didn't see them until now!

On April 17 2012 08:40 marvellosity wrote:
Also VE, apparently I'm talking to your wife.

On April 18 2012 00:38 talismania wrote:
Ok. There are five people in this game who are scum. There are twenty who aren't.

Here are the players from which I believe the scum team comes:

MrZentor - A few reasons to think this as have been posted.

One, as brought up by layabout via kurumi of course is the entanglement with l10f. l10f is bad at playing scum. The simplest explanation for his behavior is that he was trying to protect his scumbuddy when he saw someone attack him.

Two is that his demeanor has changed over the course of the game. He started out with his bid for captaincy, ever since it fizzled and people started looking at him, he's been on the defensive. This is a weaker reason as town can act this way too. Also note strongandbig's point about his campaign for captaincy including the promise that people could lynch him if they disagreed with his decision-making. That made and still makes no sense from a town point of view - if you're town, why would you agree to let yourself get lynched under any circumstances?

Three is that he basically revealed that he knew about acrofales' bombs. I haven't heard any replies from the people I PM'd about this yet so I'll just go ahead and post it.



This means that acrofales told him how his bombs work. This means that MrZentor knew that if acrofales died, another person would die. This means that if MrZentor were scum, he knew that killing acrofales would be a 2 for 1. Also note that acrofales stated in the thread at one point that he thought MrZentor was acting scummy. Acrofales was targeted for a reason - part of it may have been his suspicion of l10f but another part of it may be this. Marvellosity, this explains why acrofales told you to be suspicious of Zentor if he died. The only part that doesn't make sense is why Zentor would even make that post - maybe someone else knew? Maybe he slipped in trying to appear helpful? Or this whole case is rubbish and he's town.

Sinani206

Read Sinani's filter. Compare it to l10f's.

Sinani does nothing day one but comment on the captaincy. It's all superficial game-content posts from him. There is no attempt at real scumhunting. There is no attempt at any protown plan. He hasn't responded to PMs. Yet he's still in the game, posting and making votes. His vote just now for ET reeks.

Jackal58

He's on here almost by process of elimination and my own gut feeling to be perfectly honest. Here are his comments in PM land when asked what he thinks of sinani, node, and zentor:



Could be confirmation bias, but my eyebrows arched a bit when he asks me that fish-y question on sandroba. Here's the rest of the conversation:
+ Show Spoiler +

coagulation

Like, Jackal, this case isn't that strong. There's not much to go on here, but again it's almost process of elimination. He goes after ace fairly strongly, as maverick pointed out. That doesn't necessarily make him scum - many people had suspicions of ace at the time, myself included. His vote on prp does not sit right with me. Not necessarily because of who it was made on, but how it was made. Maybe I'm tunneling, but it was almost like "oh whew, people are interested in a townie lynch let me hop on that real quick".

VayeshMoru

Oh Vayesh. I really have no clue what your alignment is. You're on this list because you're voting Node right now, and Jackal is fingering him as well. That's weak, I admit. But you also have cast some suspicion on marvellosity, who gives me town vibe, as well as me. You were the only person and maybe are the only person in the game to ever publicly state a suspicion on me. I think it was something like "he's only trying to play for himself" or something when I had just made a post about making sure that everyone shared as much information as possible.

________

On the bubble:

Node

Node has the same MO as sinani day one - except he actually did put some pressure on someone (strongandbig). And he's also disappeared since then, whereas sinani has at least attempted to keep playing. He's mainly out here because Jackal is raising suspicions of him, and I think scum right now are fishing for viable lynch alternatives to themselves

________

Outside possibilities:

Prplhz, erandorr. I wouldn't mind seeing these players flipped but I'm guessing they would come back town and would rather we go for one of ones higher up.

One, as brought up by layabout via kurumi of course is the entanglement with l10f. l10f is bad at playing scum. The simplest explanation for his behavior is that he was trying to protect his scumbuddy when he saw someone attack him.

Two is that his demeanor has changed over the course of the game. He started out with his bid for captaincy, ever since it fizzled and people started looking at him, he's been on the defensive. This is a weaker reason as town can act this way too. Also note strongandbig's point about his campaign for captaincy including the promise that people could lynch him if they disagreed with his decision-making. That made and still makes no sense from a town point of view - if you're town, why would you agree to let yourself get lynched under any circumstances?

This means that acrofales told him how his bombs work. This means that MrZentor knew that if acrofales died, another person would die. This means that if MrZentor were scum, he knew that killing acrofales would be a 2 for 1. Also note that acrofales stated in the thread at one point that he thought MrZentor was acting scummy. Acrofales was targeted for a reason - part of it may have been his suspicion of l10f but another part of it may be this. Marvellosity, this explains why acrofales told you to be suspicious of Zentor if he died. The only part that doesn't make sense is why Zentor would even make that post - maybe someone else knew? Maybe he slipped in trying to appear helpful? Or this whole case is rubbish and he's town.

this whole case is rubbish and he's town.

we also do not know if roba speaks the truth.

On April 19 2012 10:51 VayeshMoru wrote:
Vayesh believes after listening to the com logs of coagulation that mr.zentor has a high chance of being an alien. Vayesh believes through reactions and contributions that strongandbig is also an alien. The last one seems to be one of erandor node or chaoser perhaps?

On April 13 2012 22:59 Kurumi wrote:

I find it amusing that I asked Coag and You're the person to respond.
1st
People want to lynch Ace for no reason. (some say it's a joke-gone-real)
2nd
He actually says something related and helpful to the game.
3rd
Sandroba has gone the same way like he did in his scum games. Say skype publicly and try to mess in the pm land. He wanted me to claim to him because he somehow knows a mechanics present in the game giving him possibility to break it.
Bullshit.

On April 14 2012 04:49 Kurumi wrote:
As for now Jackal's my vote. I'll vote for whoever is against sandroba.
Talismania, You might need a shovel.

On April 14 2012 22:27 Kurumi wrote:
Remember this post?

That's finger pointing. You've done this twice. To me and l10f.
There's no contradiction in my post. Nobody asked You why You were away. Nobody cared. Then, why the hell would You post that You were busy?
My early-game posts are early-game posts. Don't expect them to be too good. That goes for pretty much everybody. You can't have a fully fleshed out case 10 hours into the game, come on. The days are 48h for a reason (besides timezones)
You posted a post full of fluff and I called You out on it.
You also tried to lower opinion of GMarsh and make look sandroba better, my question is: WHY?
You weren't so "confident" about sandroba then. You're lying. You don't even know what You've thought some time ago, but that's cool. When I am scum I have the same problems. Then I just usually lurk or just post a lot without attacking anybody, because it's easy!
You support some shady D1 all-claim-to-one-guy plan with no reasoning. You just think sandroba is Town because he cares.
I WOULD CARE TOO IF PEOPLE STARTED CLAIMING TO ME DAY ONE LOL
Ace's looking Town because he's making all the good observations so far. Sandroba is scum because no town would try to get all the claims day 1 for no reason for the sake of "confirming them by a broken mechanic"
Also, did You know I am Obama himself? Trust me, that's as true as Sandroba's intentions!

On April 17 2012 07:32 Kurumi wrote:

Not mine. Layabout's.

On April 18 2012 05:59 Kurumi wrote:
Its five not two. Anyway, the item name inconsistency might be solved by host trying to save the setup from being broken. Also guys. Lets go with the words of another confirmed town Ace. We should not lynch active players. I agree with Jackal that pm games tend to suck because people post a lot less in the thread and many vets say that town tends to rely too much on blues and confirming people. Remember , the flip confirms someone. I am against Jackal lynch fully. I am more than happy to lynch someone scummy lurking. As for Zentor my gut still says town but the things shown are at least weird . Although I have hard time reading the thread because I dont sleep much or well at all so I get tired fast and am really weak after school.
About Node : check his pregame posts. Check his in game posts. Did he just get lazy?
On phone so cant quote.

On April 18 2012 06:22 Kurumi wrote:

It is Jackal damnit. I dont say Jackal has done excellent scumhunting so far because he had done little to none, but I dont see how killing a guy who is around benefits us when we have people like Node talking how good town they want to play this game and the game starts and he goes lurky as hell. Sinani has meta of being lurky, just like damn Kenpachi and we cant do much. There are people who certainly know how to play but are lurking. Wbg is not as active as usual too. The item thing looks indeed pretty strong , although unless sandroba himself does not posses such an item then he cant be sure who is lying(if someone is) I just think we are at a similar situation like with Ace. We might be pulling the trigger too quickly. Jackal, have You lied to sandroba about Your item?

On April 19 2012 11:40 chaoser wrote:


negative, kurumi is probably not mafia

On April 20 2012 10:08 RayzorFlash wrote:


Give this man a medal. Sinani/Zentor would be good lynches. Lets get Sinani out of here.

##vote: Sinani206

Of course I knew about his bombs. He and I were best friends. <3 Assuming he was killed because of his bomb, and therefore I am scum is stupid. He was being very active by pming a lot of people, acting extremely townie, and pressuring l10f. He would be a great target for the scum, mostly because of the last part.