Death Factory Mafia 2

On March 31 2012 07:08 Ace wrote:
PMs will go out between tonight and Saturday afternoon. Game will start Sunday at 12AM ET.

On March 31 2012 07:47 Tobon wrote:


So wait. 12AM ET would be Midnight ET. Which means Snarfs would be out for the first 24 hours almost, not 12. Is he confused, or am I?

On March 31 2012 07:54 Tobon wrote:
So did you mean 12PM ET, then? Noon or Midnight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight

On April 01 2012 13:43 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Let's try not to throw our pushes and pulls around too liberally, or at least not anymore than we have to if we can. That means that we don't end up wasting a whole bunch of pushes and pulls that have the net effect of cancelling each other out because people disagree.

Though it's tempting, I don't think we should kill more than a couple people each day, barring anyone basically claiming scum. The last game ended with a whole bunch of people dying on day 2, so based on the probability of queue altering abilities, we should probably pull townie looking people, or people we don't want to die forward a little. Maybe keep them towards the middle of the queue, in case there's some kind of queue flipper.

On April 01 2012 13:44 Mattchew wrote:
also, we should pop palmar to the blue item and then pull him back to safety. with syllogism and VE here it shouldn't be too hard to tell if he is a good toy or bad.

On April 01 2012 14:24 Tobon wrote:
It'd take almost 1/3rd of our PoPs to move Palmar in and out. It's too big a cost for too uncertain a result, and discussing it much more would just be a distraction from scum hunting. Wait for a situation where we have confirmed town in a good position and/or have a particular need for some of the item types.

On April 01 2012 15:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
if Palmar is town he'd be dead with one push over the line

If he's scum he'd live and get the item.

The only reason anyone should be pushed is because we think they are scum. Treat the pushes like votes. Treat the pulls like anti-votes.

Therefore, only pull someone in a last-resort situation (i.e. as if you're trying toforce a no-lynch in a regular game) and push them only when you believe they are scum.

If we simply push and pull for arbitrary reasons then we take the responsibility out of the action and scum can get away without doing any real work.

On April 01 2012 15:18 Bluelightz wrote:
I haven't helped discussion and didn't explain my reads. I think the people I mentioned are town because they didn't seem to act like they are discussing stuff in a qt blah blah.I agree that we should coordinate our PoPs.

if you thought Bluelightz is scum,why the hell would you waste your push on cascades?

I'm just wtfing and this logic right now

On April 02 2012 14:21 syllogism wrote:
How is using a pull as a rolecheck wasteful? Pulls can generally only be used to "save" someone, which isn't particularly towny as especially early on that means using your power against the wishes of the majority. Furthermore, since then people have been pulling palmar towards the item quite "lightly"; are they too suspicious?

On April 03 2012 02:15 Tobon wrote:
Okay, so Acro is NOT double wide. Which means that Nemesis is double strong or something after all (or I guess I could have some sort of super light and easy to push role - but that's not me). I was already suspicious of Nemesis, but how could him not explaining his push possibly be pro-town?

I'd like to see Nemesis lynched. I can't push him myself, and I can't push Palmar out of the fire either. Both of those would be what we'd need to do if we want to go that direction.

Meanwhile, still very interested in pulling syllogism or sbrubbles down and out of risk's range. Any objections or volunteers to pull sbrubbles?

On April 03 2012 02:56 Cephiro wrote:
Sigh. What is it with you people being so insanely obsessed with Palmar getting that item? Are you just living in a fairytale where everything that happens is the best case scenario, Palmar is innocent as a bird, gets a dayvig item, shoots a scum and everyone is happy?

It seems to me that certain suggestions are going through way too easily. >_>

Also, I will threaten to push Palmar over the edge if someone pushes him to the item. I do not trust him at all currently, and if he doesn't even bother responding to me, I'm fine by killing him.

On April 03 2012 03:14 Cephiro wrote:
His play so far has been "Let me get the item" "Random person is town for no reason", and "Lets kill person X".

On April 03 2012 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
The fact of the matter is that if Palmar is telling the truth, scum's agenda is for Palmar to not have the item. If Palmar were scum, he wouldn't be doing this - he'd want the item.

So I believe that Palmar is town and scum want him dead. But your mileage may vary. If you believe like I do, and you want to save Palmar, get in here and say something so we can get it done.

On April 03 2012 05:20 Cephiro wrote:


I perfectly understand what you mean, and I by no mean take any similarities as certain. I am however very sure that I know VE's role, but that's nothing that needs to be dwelled on further. There is a reason why I've saved my PoPs this far, and I am not going to act on impulse just due to an assumption of a previous game.

On April 03 2012 09:34 Cephiro wrote:


Okay, I believe this is what they call WIFOM. But I'd like to point it out anyway: How could you know for sure he was nullified by scum? I do admit that it certainly doesn't look like a pro-town move, but there is a slight possibility it could have been a townie ability.

On April 03 2012 09:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
3 pushes to kill Wiggles or cascades. Anyone feeling frisky?

On April 03 2012 09:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Same to you Snarfs. BM's alignment is in doubt (because he's not here), but he's certainly right about my alignment, so for the moment I'm going to assume he was right about yours too. What do you think about a Wiggles kill vs. cascades?

All the claims coming out are silly. Half of you aren't even under a ton of pressure, and that makes your claims even more nonsensical. Looking at you, Palmar and risk.nuke. Palmar claimed because someone guessed his role. risk.nuke claimed... just because, from what I can see.

People have been saying Mattchew has been pushing a lot for Palmar to get the item, so if that's true, and Palmar's telling the truth, then that makes him look a lot worse. Same thing with others strongly supporting going for the item with Palmar. We'll have to look at them all.

So, Syllo>Shrubbles, but I'd like them both to post more, so I can get a more concrete read.

I think either of Mattchew or Bluelightz are good targets for my push, and I'd probably go with Bluelightz.

What the hell? How's there no harm in someone asking you for your role? Why would another townie want to know your role, or more importantly need to know your role? If you're a townie, and you're rolefishing, you're just being dumb. You look like scum.

Caller, why haven't you actually been pushing for Jackal's lynch if you want to kill him?

On April 02 2012 22:56 Bluelightz wrote:
Fuck this, you guys see my name? Yeah I am.( For those of you who don't understand I am bluelightz.

On April 04 2012 13:40 wherebugsgo wrote:


Scum couldn't have killed Sbrubbles, I don't think, unless they had a KP role. Scum KP is listed at 1.

On April 04 2012 13:49 Tobon wrote:
EBWOP: Congratulations Nemesis! If you are lucky, your 3-push may already have killed me!

On April 03 2012 03:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wiggles is a smart guy. Like, super smart. He knows how voting works, and Bugs was insisting that it took 13 pushes to kill Bluelightz at the beginning of his push. A town Wiggles would have corrected Bugs I think, immediately. I only realized it later, but Wiggles is much smarter than me.

Combined with the fact that his first bit of advice from playing in the original DFM was "let's try not to anger each other" when it's appeared (at least to me) that he's been trying to get a rise out of me for most of his later posting.

That's my reasoning for wanting to off Wiggles.

On April 04 2012 14:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey risk.nuke, do you get to use your power again today?

If we can, we should put some people we want to check into next to him, and get him to check. We could also 1-1 trade syllo or Ceph by checking them alone to get the scum, and then if the one determined to be scum flips town, flipping risk.nuke. Unless they're a miller, I don't see a reason for them to appear as scum on day 1, if risk is telling the truth.

On April 04 2012 14:35 Cephiro wrote:


How is Bluelightz confirmed scum?

On April 04 2012 03:01 prplhz wrote:
I really doubt that Bluelightz is scum. I didn't think so before the claim and his outbursts in face of the scrutiny he was under during his absence seem genuine and townlike. Furthermore, that claim doesn't do him any good since he's claiming a scum role, the only thing the claim actually does is make sure that he can never use his power without getting lynched so the claim makes little sense from scum perspective.

I just can't get over why Ace and Kurumi would give a scum role to a townie but as long as it isn't overpowered then I don't care.

On April 04 2012 14:36 Tobon wrote:

Pulling me is bad just from a practical standpoint. Thanks to my nemesis, I almost surely require more pulls than anyone else.

On April 04 2012 14:40 prplhz wrote:
If Cephiro is really up for it (I'm not really as worried about losing him as I was about losing Palmar because he's really just a tunneling bastard , then we could push him TO the item, then he could do his thing (I imagine it's some kind of place swapper?) and kill syllogism. Then we could use the rest of our pushes on Tobon and our pulls on Bluelightz. If anything is leftover, we do our best to kill Mr. Wiggles.

How about that?

On April 04 2012 14:41 Cephiro wrote:
Ahh, I see, thanks for pointing that out. Especial thanks for pointing out yet another contradiction of prplhz. "I really doubt that Bluelightz is scum" --> "Why is nobody talking about confirmed scum Bluelightz?"

And then his buddying on me. Is there any more confirmation I could ask for?

On April 04 2012 14:43 Cephiro wrote:


Fairly sure he means it in a pro-town way, as Nemesis pushed him a whole 3 spots upwards (which could be much more due to stacking.) That means he'd be much easier killed by feeding him to the flames, I am fairly sure his suggestion of how to kill him if you decide to do so is pro-town.

On April 04 2012 14:45 Tobon wrote:

It isn't fearmongering, it is merely logic.

As far as I can see, there hasn't actually been a case made that I'm scum. (Besides Nemesis's tunneling that I answered yesterday). If I had something to answer, I'd answer it. Meanwhile, I'm helping town however I can.

On April 04 2012 14:49 Cephiro wrote:


Yeah, of course you're not worried about losing me, you'd just be delighted if that happened, one less person that knows you are scum. If you check my posting, you can clearly see I do not tunnel, but I have my reasons to believe and know that you & syllo are both scum. Why would I let you off the hook for something I know?

On April 05 2012 01:45 Cephiro wrote:


This is true, but it is modconfirmed that it is on one of the positions 2, 13 or 24. It is possible that 13 is unsafe, Blue is scum and is claiming it as safe, but at the moment I don't see that likely enough. If that's the case however, we should know by the day's end.

On April 05 2012 02:14 wherebugsgo wrote:


It's in the daypost iirc

Additional Announcements
There are 3 booby trapped queue positions. 1 of these is legit. At the end of the day, any Toy standing on the legit position will fall through and die.

On April 05 2012 02:21 wherebugsgo wrote:
Snarfs who would you most like to kill today?

Is there anyone outside of Bluelightz and Cephiro/syllo you find suspicious? Please explain your reads.

On April 05 2012 02:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yeah, he's chosen to ignore my request for reads and he's flip flopped about Bluelightz as well.

You've already pulled Bluelightz, correct? Would you rather push Cephiro or Tobon?

I think we need to get town on the same page here relatively quickly. The only person I'm waiting to hear from is layabout; if he gives a solid opinion that's in agreement with what I currently think is true then we're probably on the right track.

On April 05 2012 02:37 Cephiro wrote:
wbg: Wiggles has a relatively short filter, but what I can make of it, he doesn't show much actions that would make me lean scum on him. His play however has so far been very careful, and he hasn't taken an active stance of pressuring scum. So far he is null to me, but I expect him to start pressuring the people he suspects, as he will not get scum killed by quietly humming aside and agreeing, while asking for pieces of information.

On April 05 2012 02:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
What I can't reconcile though is that rarely are scum so in-your-face as Cephiro is, and if they are they usually cause a lot of disruption. Cephiro doesn't seem to be trolling us or trying to cause disruption, and it's no secret there is a scum between him, syllo, and risk. In addition he has pointed out a couple of things that I don't think scum would have pointed out. It's true that he could be scum, and if he is, he's been playing very well so far.

The thing though is, IF he's scum, this is a very risky proposition for him, because it ensures he dies after syllo flips town. You agree with that? Now my question is, why would scum put themselves at such great risk just to trade 1 for 1 with someone else?

Worst IMO is that two of them die and flip town.

What's stopping me from pushing Cephiro is that the possibility of him having a scum role that benefits from this still exists. Based on the knowledge we have (which isn't much) it is a better proposition to simply straight up kill syllo, because we have no clue what pushing Cephiro will do. however the pushing of syllo relies on the assumption that syllo is scum, which makes Cephiro far more likely to be town. So in that case we should consider Cephiro is actually telling the truth and push him anyway. in other words, since the basic assumption is the same, it may be better to just push Cephiro after all.

On April 05 2012 02:47 Tobon wrote:
Worst thing town can do today is split up PoPs and not lynch any potential scum. Which is why people should pull Bluelightz.

On April 05 2012 02:56 Tobon wrote:


Already did, here: link

On April 05 2012 03:11 Bill Murray wrote:
my pull is on someone I know is either town or godfather, basically, if there even is one

On April 05 2012 03:44 Nemesis wrote:
Ok shit, are we really going with Cephiro's plan?

If we do, I'd like to use my push early before anyone else, because my push might make him skip over the item.

On April 05 2012 05:27 Tobon wrote:
EBWOP: I suppose it's possible he started in 18 and a Nemesis push would skip him over the item, but I don't think it's actually possible that any toy would be randomly placed that far up.

Just clarifying my role but I DO NOT KNOW WHICH SPOT IS BOOBY TRAPPED OUT OF THE 3 BUT I KNOW 1 OF THE SPOTS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED IS SAFE.

3 RANDOMIZED POSITIONS IN THE QUEUE WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY THE NEXT DAY, BUT ONLY 1 IS BOOBY TRAPPED.

Fuck this, you guys see my name? Yeah I am.( For those of you who don't understand I am bluelightz.

If I die and I gurantee everyone I will flip blue.

So, my vote(push) will go to dirkzor because he only has picked on the easy target(sup me).

##push: Dirkzor

Die scum.

Fuck this, ##Pull: prplhz

Hey scum, DIE

On April 05 2012 07:13 layabout wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Snarfs how is bluelightz lying?
Everything he said lines up with the daypost.
Trying to lynch a player for claiming blue in a game in which there are no vanillas, because his blue role will flip green is silly.

On April 05 2012 07:19 MrZentor wrote:
I like Ceph's plan to get the item and kill syllogism.
##push Cephiro

Also, we should kill BL for obvious reasons.
##pull Bluelightz

Right now I'm a little suspicious of Tobon; I'll probably post a case on him when I've had more time to digest the information.

On April 05 2012 07:34 layabout wrote:

Bluelightz, prplhz, maybe mattchew.

On April 05 2012 07:47 Cephiro wrote:


I appriciate that, but even in the case my quest fails you shouldn't save me, as me dying will confirm syllo as scum in a worst case scenario. I am fairly sure I know your ability, and I'm sad to see there are people pushing for your lynch.

I trust you to save town with it at the right time.

On April 05 2012 09:23 Cephiro wrote:
I have been nullified. I cannot be targeted by PoP-actions, and I am roleblocked for the next day/night cycle. (I will be able to use my ability on D3, if I live that far.)

On April 05 2012 09:56 Tobon wrote:


Right. Anyone who was alive at beginning of day comes back to where they started. So we couldn't kill BL first.

On April 05 2012 09:58 Snarfs wrote:

kk good work. No need to discuss further.

And now we kill syllogism based on risk.nuke's claim?

On April 05 2012 12:31 cascades wrote:
Fuck this shit I lost my post and have to retype this shit.

1Lol ceph don't give me shit. I was in a rush and it was a genuine mistake. My pops weren't in correct format.

2You gave snarfs a free pass. Cos he buddied with you and I was suspicious of you, for entirely legit reasons? In most other games my pressure on fake softclaim and "i'm town" filler posts would be a gigantic red flag. Don't be hatin.

My original post was targetting mattchew since he all but dissappeared like syllo. He still doesn't look good.

Why would Tobon's ability make him town Nemesis? Because it was town in previous games? Look at mirror toy. You can't imagine reset power being useful to mafia? Critical thinking.

3Why would Tobon's use of ability make him town to those that suddenly cleared him?
1) Why can't he be trying to buy town credit?
2) Ceph has some magical power that avoids nullification, which is why he wasn't afraid of mafia using nullification and ruining his plan. Why is there a need for Tobon to use his ability and waste all the pulls on Bluelightz?
Critical thinking.

4Getting item is bad. Ceph left out the critical part, which refresher orb is instant.Don't need more mafia nullifcations and shit.

5What's up with delay on lynching syllo? We need to move on. Dude's disappeared off the face of the earth. You guys too pussy to start pop because I got chewed out for doing so?

##Push: syllo

On April 05 2012 13:42 Tobon wrote:
As confirmed town, I want to see 2 more Syllo pushes (we have 3 already, counting Nemesis's double-strong one), no more and no less (post and give warning before performing your push).

On April 05 2012 18:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'll do some rereading when I wake up in the morning. I'm going to look through the posts and see if I can find anything that didn't stand out to me before.

On April 06 2012 04:57 Cephiro wrote:
If I had a gun, I would shoot cascades, Mattchew, and prplhz in that order. (Syllo should be more than clear to everyone by now and should be able to get killed by PoPs).

On April 05 2012 22:15 Bluelightz wrote:
The usage of my power *gasp* I can only say to use or not to use.

For tonight just for everyone im flipping a coin if im going to use my power or not.

On April 06 2012 05:20 cascades wrote:
If you guys don't read my posts just tell me and I will stop bothering. Not once have Ceph nor Tobon addressed my claims or my defence. They just dodge and keep yelling "scum" over and over. That shit isn't going to stop me from pressing them on how that plan failed so bad.

On April 06 2012 05:33 Acrofales wrote:

UPDATE:

Mattchew: Acrofales
Bluelightz: Layabout, risk.nuke, Nemesis

On April 06 2012 05:57 Acrofales wrote:
I am not waiting up till 5 AM to use my pull.

On April 06 2012 06:38 layabout wrote:
acro, i cannot PoP, i posted PoP's so that in the votecount it would show that i cannot PoP.
I had not counted the votes at that time and it was possible that syllo could have gone over the edge and thus a PoP on him might be refunded. So i picked a name out of my ass instead.

On April 05 2012 04:54 layabout wrote:
ACE! please don't smite me
##push Cephiro

On April 06 2012 06:55 layabout wrote:

You claimed to have been nullified. I thought i better post again just in case it would not have counted anyway. Plus it should show that i can't do either.

On April 06 2012 07:28 Bill Murray wrote:

check the bolded, for instance
WBG admitted bluelightz is town yet again
the funny thing is, what he's doing is pretty pro-town it seems, but I set this trap days ago, and he just fell in. It's really funny that I already saw a slip from him, but he just fell to one of my traps

I pushed what he just said in the bolded. I pushed a policy lynch on BL to see if scum would bite on it on that policy. He just bit.

I'm happy with my push on WBG, I can't take into account what Palmar may or may not have done, for instance. I can only play to what I know of the mechanics when the lights are off.

WBG is scum

On April 07 2012 10:39 Bill Murray wrote:




I save you, then you put me on your lynch list?
You think I'd have saved your ass if I was mafia?
I have an innocent on you. Are you reading this game, snarfs?

On April 09 2012 01:24 prplhz wrote:
I just don't see what else you guys want to use your PoPs on and checking into Mattchew/Cephiro/prplhz/Snarfs is a really good check with the current state of things (no general consensus on Mattchew).

I see that it would be a problem if we wasted PoPs, but we're only going to use pushes and those aren't really going to go to anything else. We can't even decide on pulling Mr. Wiggles or MrZentor, how are we ever going to agree on pushing anybody?

On April 09 2012 12:28 Bill Murray wrote:
Oh, snarfs, I'm terrible at town, and more heart and soul than rationality

On April 09 2012 01:47 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, I'll use my abillity now on tobon and dirkzor.

On April 09 2012 13:13 Mattchew wrote:

oh so you admit you don't care about the game. and now you are back peddling cause I was mean. idc about your apology I am hoping for you to be scum.

On April 09 2012 13:15 Nemesis wrote:

I don't see anything. I only see the actions of a townie trying to hunt scum???

On April 09 2012 13:17 MrZentor wrote:
Syllogism, Nemesis, Cascades, and I are all masons. We planned this out to save our mason buddy and kill prphlz(scum)