This will be my first game of forum mafia. Played lots in person and on sc2 though.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VIII
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Nova_Terra
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This will be my first game of forum mafia. Played lots in person and on sc2 though. | ||
Nova_Terra
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I'm wondering how well SC2 -Mafia- Logic will work here... | ||
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I hate people who leave when they get Citizen. I find it fun to play as citi, making wild accusations that often turn out right :D | ||
Nova_Terra
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I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. | ||
Nova_Terra
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That being said, I think we should continue to suspect all people on that list. I guess that even includes myself. i just have a feeling that ~2 scum could be in there and will step up when their buddies tell them, "You gotta post, man!" | ||
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On March 11 2012 17:59 cosine wrote: lynch is always better than no lynch except sometimes in lylo. no lynch day 1 just kicks the can to day 2 and gives the scum a free kill. btw tofu advocating lurker lynches this early is p stupid. scum don't need to lurk this early. it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. even if we got lucky and hit scum, it wouldn't tell us anything. better to get the talkative scum first. Did you actually just say that no lynch is sometimes better than lynch in a situation where town loses if they dont lynch mafia? By those sometimes do you mean (hypothetically) when you are mafia? Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid. Also i disagree with the point about it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. ##FOS: cosine | ||
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On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote: Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. | ||
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On March 12 2012 02:02 phagga wrote: - We should lynch every day. - no policy lynching lurkers, but if we can not find a better target, a lurker lynch is acceptable. however, as long as the first 24 hours have not passed, i will not accuse anyone of lurking - posting from a mobile sucks. - TerraNova is really eager to FoS at least im not immediately trying to lynch him. it just makes sense that i want him to clarify and defend. | ||
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On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote: Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him. Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say. Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said. | ||
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On March 12 2012 06:06 Mementoss wrote: Re-reading I missed this quote from you "i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.". Which does show that what you were saying was just a pressure play. The original post however just seemed a bit more aggressive. Initially when I read over it, it just seemed like a newbie mistake, not understanding the acronym. As time goes on, without a response it is getting more suspicious. Can't really take that any further until we get a response. Also there is another odd post that I would like to point out. This is his only post. To put this in context it was about an hour and a half after NovaTerras post about cosine. He comes in posts a one liner, that completely ignores the discussion at hand, cosine case, and wants to commit to lynching a lurker, rather than making a case to lynch. Lynching a lurker is a good town decision if there is no case at the end of the day, but purposing it as the correct option at the start of the day is scummy. Mafia can avoid getting lynched just by being active and letting a townie lurker die and get 2 for 1 on day 1. Either he is just skimming the thread, or trying to take the attention off of the cosine case by just ignoring it. Also its ironic that he wants to lynch a lurker, yet he only has 2 lines above the people who didn't post anything at all. I would like to hear his opinion on the cosine case at hand. Where my head lies right now in terms of suspicion is: 1. cosine 2. Eleanthas 3. Inferookami, Sbrubbles, koritora (aka the "lurkers") Am interested in hearing responses from all the above. Day 1 is a tough day for town and only by being active and making topics of discussion will we be able to weed out the scum. I was trying to make it seem to him like i was aggressive against it in hopes that he would post quickly if lurking. Also, i picked up on the Eleanthas thing as well, but didnt really want to mention that as well. i agree with your suspicion list currently. | ||
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On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote: hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid. This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours. | ||
Nova_Terra
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On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. | ||
Nova_Terra
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On March 12 2012 10:12 koritora wrote: Riddle me this. Riddle me that. Don't lynch me unless based on fact... Not sure if making a boring rhyme or trying to get us to not lynch him for lurking. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote: However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Okay, then from your logic, we should lynch… You, or people who don’t want to lynch day 1. Ok then. Koritora, what is your opinion on cosine and Eleanthas? On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote: We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort? Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this. | ||
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On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote: Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter here I read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. I agree with your lynch candidates, and I think that Eleanthas should be our main target until he posts. I was also wondering about tofu, I hope he shows up and weighs in on everything. Thanks Probulous for the filters | ||
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On March 12 2012 19:56 koritora wrote: Well to answer your first question, the one liner is not exactly foretelling as to whether or not Eleanthas is part of the mafia or not. However, it is suspicious that he hasn't posted anything since--means to try to draw suspicion away or something. In reference to Cosine, well it's hard to read what his motives are. His words are a little contradictory in my opinion. He was all for lynching without a cause since no lynch would be bad, then a few posts later he says that people misunderstood. As for me not posting anything of value, well, my bad. Still learning the ropes of this game which is why I joined this one. Plus, It's hard to read people day 1 anyhow which is why I was for lynching the lurkers. And yes, it was a rhyme, but a truthful one. Besides the lynching of lurkers, it would not be beneficial to lynch unless some sort of evidence exists for it to occur. Okay, thanks for the insights. Just continue to try to post often and discuss things just like what you wrote above. It would be better if you could recommend a course of action relating to your deductions regarding certain people. I.E.How we are likely to lynch Eleanthas if he doesnt post up. | ||
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On March 12 2012 21:51 phagga wrote: Ehm, is there a voting thread already? Because I don't see one linked in the OP. Or do we vote in this thread here? I think its this thread itself, as there was no link in the op and it had "This Thread" underlined. | ||
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On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day. I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives. Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said." And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it. @Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas | ||
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Janaan I dont really think that Firmtofu is more suspicious than say Cosine, but Cosine had a chance to come and explain. if thats the plan for a lynch though, i dont disagree. ##Unvote Eleanthas ##Vote FirmTofu This will likely be my last post for tonight, see you in the morning | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote: @Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that? I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched. ##Vote: FirmTofu Oh, simply because he was one of the few early posters that generated discussion, and therefore i was more suspicious of those who didnt. I feel that he is being sufficently pressured to the point of where if he was lurking, he would say something, and therefore i find it more likely that RL got in the way and that he should be given the chance to respond. Also, its going a little too easily. Eleanthas, i think i finally got it right! Ok. i decided that i dont want a lynch on tofu, yet. lemme quickly find someone not likely to be voted so i can put a vote on them (not actually trying to lynch you, no hard feelings) | ||
Nova_Terra
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This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision. Unvote: FirmTofu Vote: Gossemerr | ||
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##Unvote: FirmTofu ##Vote: Gossemerr | ||
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On March 13 2012 07:19 Gossemerr wrote: You realize you can just vote for a no lynch? OH, damn, my bad. when i saw that voting is mandatory, i just assumed that meant if nobody has majority it goes to no lynch. sad about tofu's death. I do think kori's posts were a bit strange, and it definitely merits further discussion. Also, the general lack of posts from him doesnt help his case. | ||
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On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote: So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list: - Eleanthas - koritora - cosine What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. | ||
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On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post. Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies. Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess. I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie. By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more. sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra I think you have been misunderstanding many of the points I’ve been making. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Yes, that is accurate except for the part about the town being frustrated by the town not agreeing with me. I was frustrated that people found me suspicious for the ways that I found Cosine suspicions, but then immediately used my same logic to find him suspicious. I found it hypocritical. It is true that I was mad that the town didn’t think like me, yes. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. Meh, I didn’t consider it semi random as he made a suspicious first post as well and appeared to be lurking. See last post on the “thinking him” thing, I think you just interpreted “thinking him” wrong as I should have clarified it more. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Sorry, maybe shouldn’t have used the word ‘The’ in ‘The Blame’. He was putting blame on me, not tossing it from him to me. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. Uhhh, sorry? He wanted MORE explanation about my early FOS? I thought he was accusing me for repeatedly defending myself for it. I think that I explained my early FOS well enough. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. I still maintain that the thing with Eleanthas as a misunderstanding where you considered my ‘Im thinking’ to not being to point a finger, Whereas I meant that that would probably be my vote if nothing happened to clarify. I was not asking for anyone else to point a finger at him, etc. I find that my clarification of my FOS from beforehand was enough, and therefore I feel that he had an obligation to read the thread through fully, especially if he had just arrived. And he did ignore a few of my posts, as I directly talked to him and he didn’t respond. I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. Well I think/thought that my logic on FirmTofu was accurate, and therefore didn’t want to vote for someone that I was relatively sure was town, especially with the lynch going so easily. I was hoping that enough people would agree with my logic that they would stop their votes, but it was too close to the lynch deadline. in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. You mean my “play” of not voting for the townie, correct? If so, I agree that that was a nice play, as the town’s general goal is to not lynch townies. Of course, Phagga only said that he was sure we could find 1-2 scum in that list, therefore leaving 1-2 out as well, so I consider that as touching on us as well. I find it sad that tofu died, I really thought that my reasoning was enough for people to cancel votes, but it was probably a bit WIFOMy. Anything else? Many of the points you made are based on WIFOM, and therefore I apologize if I was not able to respond to those in a way that cleared it up, as I have trouble defending against WIFOM cases. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Wow, long post. I also was surprised when I seen this mafia kill. I immediately thought the same thing that mafia kills are usually motivated by people who on the right track for hunting scum. The only person to put relatively any pressure on NovaTerra was Sbrubbles. Of course this is just WIFOM situation, as the mafia could just be trying to mess with the town there is no way of knowing. But I do find it interesting the way NovaTerra replied. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. This reply is very defensive. He FoS'd him, but in an aggressive manner to get the whole town on board early, at least for a thought. By being aggressive and FoS an early proof of innocence, doing what is good for the town.Also by the same most people would be thinking that no mafia would be that aggressive early game. Is that what he wants us to think? Then he goes on to state Eleanthas is his most suspicious at the moment. Then bam, change of though Sbrubbles is his suspicious now. OMGUS sorta attitude. You think i'm suspicious well that makes you suspicious kind of defensive manuever. I have the same thoughts on this as Seviro, basically, but i'll quickly go through it. 1. "Throws blame on others." Why would he do this? No one suspected Sbrubbles. 2."Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion" - At that point discussion was discussion, and overall your argument wasn't exactly strong, so it was more like disagreeing not , not understanding. 3. "Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness" - Trying to give a reason for your defensiveness if you were town 4. "Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious." - I think he was just against early FoS because he wasn't confident in his read on you without more posts. Not because he didn't want to bring further attention to himself. Also as stated before, the vote change by Nova_Terra was weird. He didn't push the town to get off of Tofu's case until it was too late to lose majority. Does this make him innocent, just because he didn't have a final vote for a townie. Well it looks like that is the way he was trying to make it look. Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra 1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote: Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter here I read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote: I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote: Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM. We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia. There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win. However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. 4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran Hi, just wanted to clarify a couple of things before you go through my defense. after you do, please feel free to ask me any more questions, as long as they havent already been defended against, i would be glad to answer them. The thing about why Sbrubbles' post was suspicious was not a defensive maneuver. I was attempting to state that his post was suspicious as well, not because he accused me or anything. 1. If Sbrubbles had been mafia, I do think that a likely strategy would be to try to blame other people for mistakes. Which is why i pointed out the blame thing. 2. I did find that he had seemingly not understood my posts, as he was referencing questions that i thought i had already answered completely. The fact that there was barely any discussion happening notwithstanding. 3. Of course, there is a reason for defensiveness, as being thought of as a likely mafia who could easily be lynched is a bad thing, and therefore i was showing why i defended myself. 4. Probable, but at least by my logic his post was enough against me to warrant further investigation. | ||
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Yeah, i noticed phagga supporting me and i just assumed it was because he thought i was town, as i am. Wasnt sure if he was trying to buddy me, or just thought like me or something, but I was pleased that at least someone agreed with my status as an active townie. He did say though that he was busy and would go through his case when he had the time and did not dismiss it. The thing about the DT check was so that the DT wouldnt be alone in deciding who to check, and would be able to secretly know what other towns though. I still stand by my opinion of Sbrubbles having seemed suspicious. Especially so as he seemed to have ignored my posts multiple times, where he was referenced in them and where i directly asked him to share some thoughts. I still feel that i am one of the people who is providing the most pro-town ideas and thoughts. Maybe my brain just works strangely. You are entirely correct to question my wishy washy vote switch, which i immediately admitted, and i feel that that was the most/only really suspicious thing i did. However, i feel that it was the right move, and it was as he was town. | ||
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As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort. Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts. Note that this is not an FOS. | ||
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Mafia literally doesnt even have to post as enough town is lurking as well that they can just sit back and watch townies clobber eachother because the only ones that get accused are the ones speaking. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote: At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like after Day 1 ended, implying that we should simply wait until after Night 1 is over before doing anything, wasting 24 hours, doesn't look good to me. Then his accusation of Nova_Terra was full of WIFOM argument, and possibly confirmation bias. Mementoss has a townie feel to me, he's been a fairly active poster so far, and seems to be speaking his mind on what's going on. The other players, I don't have nearly enough posts from them to make any kind of read. The trouble is that it's quite possible for all the mafia to be in this category, but we can't know for sure until they decide to start posting. Okay, fair enough. I cant help but feel like we are doomed unless people start posting. | ||
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From the way i had seen it, there was ample time left for people to switch their votes after i made mine. as most players in this game are in North America, i believe, it made sense to me that they would see my post at a time when most of them would be online, around 6pm ESTish. I attempted to post the best defense of him that i could, which was hard due to his inactivity. The reason why i did not come up with another case or present any defense for him earlier was that i had been hoping that he would come and post a defense of himself when he learned he was under fire. I really thought that it might influence the result, and my thinking was, if he did get lynched, at least i didnt vote for a townie. About the lurkers, you know someone has really been allowed to lurk when you cant even remember a single opinion that they had, and to me that person i remember nothing about is inferno. there is one or two other players that i dont get good vibes from, but i dont really have any non-WIFOM points so i shall have to wait with that until more posts are made. Anyway, If it does come down to those three you said, i would prefer an Inferno lynch, but a Kori lynch is a-ok with me too. | ||
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One thing i just dont like from that post is the kind of. Oh im new sorry i know now i did bad kind of attitude. once again, not a big deal at least to me, however. | ||
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I think that he had not fully read the thread, or at least fully understood it, as he did not seem to understand why i was impaitently pushing on cosine, which i felt i had explained and accounted for. Even if it is an "excuse for what i had posted earlier" i find that calling something inexperienced/carelessness to be discrediting. to me, this was not about defending myself there as it was just pointing out not to discredit anyone's posts in that manner because once a post is thought of as inexperienced or careless it doesnt carry the same weight, at least to me, as one that hasnt been called out in any way. my point was that that kind of post, at least in my mind, shouldnt have been made. | ||
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I think i mentioned the connection between myself and phagga in an earlier post. I am not voting yet as there is still time for a well made case, but when i do, It will be on InfernOokami. | ||
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Hmm, I like the basis of this case. in a couple hours, i will look over the filters and check everything, but you may be on to something. Phagga, i think that Gossemerr should be on your "somehow active but barely contributing" section. One think that i noticed about Gossemerr is that he appears to be here often but rarely says much. I find this to be true because when i hadnt realized that you could vote for no lynch, and put his name down, he popped up very shortly after to say, You do realize you can vote for a no lynch. More later. | ||
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''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu. ~Eleanthas on InfernOokami The Gossemerr case In Gossemerr's filter, He mentions Eleanthas a grand total of 1 time, In which he soft defends him by saying he fails to see why Eleanthas was more suspicious than anyone else. In gossemerr's 12 ingame posts, half of them are meaningless 1-2 lines or short answers that can barely be counted as contributing. Then, there is that post that soft defends ele, The post where he decides to lynch Firmtofu without much reasoning on his part, and the post where he says that he thinks firm is town, presents an unlikely situation, and decides to continue lynching him anyway. Yes, a grand total of 3 posts he makes contain any real information. In one, he throws a bit of sight to janaans "weird" posting timing, and ends it by trying to make it seem like he isnt trying to direct any attention. In another, he analyzes why we shouldnt no lynch, so a totally worthless post really. In the last, he dreams up a connection between Janaan, Phagga, and myself. Then he votes janaan with little reasoning, and this little reasoning had already been brought up by me. so just restating what i had said. Then add that to how he says phagga makes little analysis, etc. Also, He appears to want a active lynch instead of a lurker lynch. which didnt bother me originally, but now i can see what this did, if he was a mafia with Eleanthas and InfernO. Ele and Gossemerr had been semi lurking, posting barely any content. InfernO is a hardcore lurker. I think he is trying to distract attention away from lurkers/semi lurkers by his Janaan voting post. Also, Gossemerr never mentions infernOokami. ever. And, as i explained in a post or two ago, Gossemerr seems to be here, a lot. The Eleanthas case Eleanthas mentions Gossemerr a grand total of ZERO times in his entire filter. He really never adds anything of great value to the table, and when in agreement with someone pretty just restates what they said. Not only is this suspicious within itself, but 2 of eleanthas' 8 Posts soft defend InfernO. On Inferno's first non-lurk post, Ele responds by not questioning his lurking, more just stating that Inferno is trying to lurk, which was relatively obvious, and kind of gives him the free pass by saying that he would like to hear more from Inferno in the future. In his latest post, he defends Inferno's lurking in a relatively moderate manner. He says that he defends himself, and doesnt seem to have much of a problem with inferno having said the same thing multiple times. Every now and then he comes in with a 1 or 2 liner to make it seem like he is adding something to the discussion. for instance, Last 2 hours to affect to my vote. Then going to go to sleep. or I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia. Which may seem partially helpful, but all it really does is help is it helps stop the spread of town information.Or even still I hope that people learn my name by the end of the game or only call me as Ele ^^ Meaningless fluffcontinuing Atleast it says you have to have : on vote so making sure my vote counts yepand last but not least Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer. And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak. Yes, that is 5 of Eleanthas' 8 ingame posts that are 1-2 lines and dont really contribute. Then count the fact that 2 of his other 3 posts have defended Inferno. Yes, 2 thirds of eleanthas' posts have been to defend or reference inferno's play as not being very suspicious. Then add that with the fact that Inferno has been lurking, and how Eleanthas' first post says that we should lynch a lurker (maybe), and how Eleanthas refuses to suspect inferno. I am liking this connection more and more. The InfernOokami7 Case Lets delve into InfernO's extensive 6 ingame posts. Most of which are made to avoid being replaced, it seems. One, he asks about his opinion in a question. Two, he further explains his side. Three, he adds to it. Four, he clarifies it Five, He clarifies a typo SIX! He finally posts analysis! He distracts from our suspiciousness of his own absence by noting how i seem to have little to say about FirmTofu's absence. at the time, my stances were already being questioned, and therefore this could be seen as an attempt to further find me suspicious. then he uses WIFOM to further prove his side. and attempts to jump onboard the bandwagon which Ele and Gosse had jumped on as well. All in all, InfernO isnt extremely suspicious, but when coupled with the way Ele and Gosse have been acting about him, i can see in my mind a mafia trio. I like this hunch. A lot. I would love to see people's thoughts on this. I worked hard ^^ | ||
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##Vote: Gossemerr | ||
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I just hope i live to see the results of it | ||
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Welcome! I feel more that Gossemerr is related to eleanthas, and that eleanthas is related to inferno. also, the fact that Gossemerr seems to ignore Inferno as a whole leads me to believe that they are trying to not become involved with eachother, but taking it to a new extreme. When you post your case against me, please make sure you compared it against the previous cases made against me to make sure that the same things arent in there twice. Its a pain, Thanks. | ||
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I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous. | ||
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On March 14 2012 03:03 Eleanthas wrote: Is it wrong that you agree with people? I really think that there was nothing new anybody could have risen up. Besides. It was pretty much case of ''If you don't speak, we lynch you.'', so decided to post my view of the game that point (wich agreed with many people), than being lynched for saying nothing. On March 14 2012 08:36 Gossemerr wrote: There is not much action going on so it is kinda hard to read anyone. Only thing that pops out at me is Janaan talking about the days votes after its already over. Earlier he said he would keep watch on the thread, and koritora posted the no lynch vote only a few minutes after his (Janaan's) last post. Kinda scummy imo to bring this up after the fact. Either way I agree with the analysis, just weird timing. In this case, Ele's post is defensive and doesn't change any thoughts in my mind. Gosse's post, on the other hand, quietly puts a little bit of question and suspicion of Janaan into my mind. Had i not read through is filter in depth, I probably wouldnt have picked up on the seeming intent to do this. So thats why i wanted to lynch Gosse. I feel that he is playing a better, smarter game (no offense meant to either ele or infernO) | ||
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in those 2 cases: 1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up 2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum. I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first. I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad. | ||
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I am interested to know why you dont agree with my other points on why gosse is suspicious. For instance, his semi case on janaan that make him even vote his name? Also, Please let me know What these holes in the case are. my brain seems to be working faster than my hands when i write these, and i sometimes forget a point or two that i meant to have in places, etc. It was just a lot better formulated in my mind. | ||
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And by the way, Nova gets mad and makes a case for anyone who says anything about him. He flips his mind every time a new argument is made, just following the flow of the thread. On March 16 2012 06:24 Gossemerr wrote: Additionally, the evidence that Ele, Me, and Infero are related is just as bad as you say my evidence that Nova, Phagga, and Janaan are possibly related. .... Wow, i actually dont know what to say. I feel offended by this, the first time i've felt offended by anything on the internet in some time. Can you trash me a bit more here? Back up your defense. I've made a total of 2 cases in the game, one against cosine to make day 1 conversation, and one against you(which includes ele and inferno). other than that, i have pointed out suspicious things in peoples play while noting that it wasnt an accusation, and in most cases, people agree. I got mad once, and said it. thats it. I most certainly do not make a case for anyone that said anything about me. actually, until now, i feel that you, ele, and inferno have barely pressured me, and if you did, i barely noticed it. and you guys are my one good case. once again, back up your defense. the evidence that you, ele, and inferno are related is not bad, it easily could make logical sense. also, i believe that i was the first to call janaan's questioning out, whereas you didnt do anything to pressure ele or inferno in any way. When i see a logical argument, i go through filters and see what makes sense. its not flipping my mind whenever a new argument is made, its genuine curiousity for the argument and if it agrees with the filters than it could work. Lastly, This, meaning TL Mafia in general, doesnt take that much of a time committment. you dont have to be on here half as much as me to still be an effective and active player. most of the time, i just check in quickly. If you cant make a committment to like 45 minutes to 1 hour of time in 1 day, i dont see why you would join a highly interactive co-dependent game like this. How rude. | ||
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##Unvote: Gossemerr ##Vote: Eleanthas | ||
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sorry, when i saw the thing about having 2 jobs and goin to school full time i immediately classified it as a " dont blame me i cant help but post only a little" kind of post. The first part is what made me more angry. seems blatantly bashing me, in a manner that i would say seems "frustrated". Discrediting me, without so much as even backing it up, is what i found rude. It seems to me as if it was in a manner to tell someone new to reading this, like velinath for example, that i am just a mad wishy washy player whose cases cant be taken seriously as they are founded in angry response to them even mentioning me. Yeah, at this point its relatively obvious that i am the most emotional player here. i drop my day 1 suspicions quickly as they are founded on early lurking and suspicious first posts. They are easily clarified, by just one post, and the main idea was to try to have everyone posting. I didnt think he was sooo suspicious, i just wanted him to post to defend himself. at least if you're gonna make points, back them up so i can at least defend against it or reference it while i attempt to keep a cool head, instead of stating something like its fact and leaving me to speculate on why you would post something like that in a manner that seemed rude. | ||
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That being said, i wish ele had come and defended himself in a longer post than what he attempted to do. Hosts, is anyone being modkilled? | ||
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I hope i can come up with something useful. | ||
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Better hope we get those replacements. | ||
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I hope we have a vigi who identified a scum. would be so helpful for info at this point in time. | ||
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On March 17 2012 04:43 Velinath wrote: Nova_Terra I'll just throw the EBWOP in here so it makes more sense as I go. Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking. NT goes on to just say "let's suspect everyone on that list just in case". We're 6 hours into the game at this point, there isn't nearly enough posting to justify a pure town read on ANYONE...of course we should be suspecting everyone this early on. This is useless filler. Okay, let's talk about this FOS mess on day 1. Might as well just use this entire post rather than quoting everything that's nested inside it. First of all, reflex FOS after one post? That goes a little far, I think (never mind that FOS does nothing in this game, just inflames people and is essentially a push for early votes). Same sentiment could have been expressed as I have already - I've said already that I have a negative read on NT without making some big stink about it. Pressure plays should be vote based, because an FOS does nothing. On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote: This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours. I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint. On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote: No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day. I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives. Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said." And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it. @Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas So much to talk about in this post. NT OMGUS's after Sbrubbles brings up the point that his recent posts had already been defensive. The reaction's totally out of proportion to what's going on here. The interesting thing that I see here is that NT keeps on emphasizing "I didn't accuse cosine!" I disagree. On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: his post . . . seemed very scummy (emphasis mine) On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. That's an accusation. Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense. I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. First of all, calling someone a scummy poster is apparently not the same as saying they're scum. What? Secondly, I think I've made the point clear already that NT's been acting scummy in this thread. Why wouldn't Sbrubbles point out suspicions based on reading the thread - that's kind of the point of the game. Defensive, OMGUS reaction - that says scum to me. Sbrubbles isn't misunderstanding an argument when he uses NT's own posts to make his point. He's pointing out an inconsistency. I'd say TN's making a pretty clear finger point especially after his second post. Let's not forget this gem: On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response? compare to: 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town? DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play. First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets. NT uses the excuse of "Well, I decided Tofu was a townie" to justify his vote switch, but honestly, his vote switch was completely meaningless. The result was already set, so he could switch with impunity - in fact, you notice that he says things like after the majority's already locked in on FT. At this point, he's able to backfill and make these posts, since it doesn't matter whether he votes for FT or someone else. Was he the motivator of this vote? No, but he certainly didn't object until after there was already a majority. He even states himself that it was "too close to the lynch deadline" to stop the bandwagon rolling. Alright, now we get to come back to that point I made earlier about the Eleantris vote on day 1. I want to point out that NT's already made clear his early suspicions of Elea, and then posts his case on a Gosse/Elea/InfernO scumteam (It's a lot of words, I won't quote it here). He then proceeds to vote for...Gossemerr. Why? I have absolutely no idea, considering he already had his suspicions of Elea on day one. I'll also note here that he was one of the first people to swap his vote to Elea, and I'd actually argue that him doing so really got the bandwagon rolling, considering we really needed a lynch Day 2 (we were already at 3 on Gosse, and then everyone followed TN to Elea). Lastly, I'd like to quote phagga: I really didn't want to put this into my case if I was the only one saying it, but phagga's right there with me. This whole "connection analysis" thing that NT's pushing is very weak. I don't think it's a legitimate case, and it's meant to distract us from scumhunting. I'd also like to take into account the lynch results of Day 2. Eleantris was TOWN. NT's been busy being "suspicious" of Elea since Day 1, and obviously nothing's changed since that point as far as his feelings have gone (see his day 2 case, as mentioned earlier). If you count Sbrubbles, that's two townies that have disappeared after attracting NT's attention - on this one, he even admits leading the mislynch. Interesting. Ok on point 1 “Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking” No, read that as people who have lots of suspicion drawn to them and are about to be voted are more likely to post to defend themselves rather than not, if they are actually there. And I think a mafia would probably be there. And of course it wasn’t enough posting yet to consider someone town. I meant that those should all be people that we may end up lynching day 1. Onto the FOS, I feel that I sufficiently explained that multiple times. I do find that an FOS does things. “I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.” Next, pointing out a problem with lurker lynches and saying maybe we shouldn’t lynch them are two totally separate things. You may be reading into this a little too hard. I did say from the beginning that I would be open to a lurker lynch if there was some scum evidence. I explained the FirmTofu thing as well as I could. “That's an accusation.” No, in my opinion an accusation would be saying “this person is scum.” This is pretty much saying that he is suspicious enough that a vote on him would make sense. Still, I was looking to generate discussion and posting. “Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense. “ Where did you explain why that’s an accusation? I find that my explanation does make sense. Please tell me what doesn’t, and I can elaborate if necessary. Uh, no. Calling a move scummy and saying that someone is scum are two different things. One is related to the other, of course. When someone points out suspicions, becoming defensive makes more sense to me than pushing on aggressively and ignoring the suspicions. “Let's not forget this gem: On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response? compare to: 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?[/i]” Someone said that Sbrubbles was pressuring me for responses, I asked why. “DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.” I find that DT lists aren’t a terrible idea for reasons that myself but mostly Phagga has already explained. Spreading town suspicion thoughts would make the dt more accurate. Of course I took into account the possibility of a framer. However, if the dt checked 1/3 people on this list there is a 1/3 chance the framer would hit the same one, and all players were lurkers I believe, so losing one wouldn’t be terrible and dt would know that mafia has a framer. “First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.” If my WIFOM wasn’t credible, in what way was the case made by Seviro credible as well as his was also based on WIFOM? And where did I say anything that meant “well, it couldn’t possibly be because sbrubbles suspected me” what? I said the exact opposite. Because sbrubbles suspected me, he died. I find that argument just as simple. Yes, I did say that that vote switch was wishy washy, and I did think that it might be able to influence the vote. I had a hope. Yes, I explained my vote on gossemerr instead of eleanthas as well. The day 1 suspicions, as I said, were inactivity related. And, as I said, I was fine with an Ele lynch though as well, so I did change to ele to get a more likely lynch. And yeah I did say that that was probably my fault. Yeah, I read too much into connections and convinced myself that they were correct. The fact that the points I had made in the individual portions of that post seemed suspicious from them was enough for me to continue to delude myself into thinking I was totally correct. And yes, I feel that the mislynch was largely my fault. | ||
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In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought. This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno? I hate WIFOM. gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on. | ||
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At this point in time, is it a good idea for a dt to come out and say what he found? then at least we might stop lynching townies. | ||
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On March 17 2012 23:22 Velinath wrote: Did you even read what I said after you posted your defense? And stop WIFOMing, it doesn't get us anywhere. phagga said something good before he died - nightkills get us nothing until we lynch a scum. Umm, yes, you said that my defense was completely WIFOM and it wasnt. Im trying to use possible logic to figure it out myself. nightkills can help us learn. putting out my view on what mafia was thinking makes sense. its not like im using it to accuse anyone or anything. | ||
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2. I thought that the targets on his list were good ones to check. Also, even if it doesnt get is closer to a lynch target, it is something valid to discuss because a possible insight into mafia thinking is one thing that town can take from the mafia. if we can know how they think blues might be able to predict what they will do, etc. | ||
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You're welcome, and i'm glad we got some information out of it. I am slightly less suspicious than i was about Gosse, due to the Ele flip, but at this point i am really not sure who to vote. | ||
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I have been going through filters for the past couple hours and am having trouble attempting to make a case, especially with 2 lurkers that we cant really vote as they are gonna be replaced. | ||
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If anyone has any questions for me to answer, shoot. | ||
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2. I hate lurkers ruining the game so damn much 3. town reads: Nova_Terra Janaan, Mementoss null: inferno, kori, veli leaning scum: seviro, gosse yeah yeah im attempting a case later on | ||
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Seviro starts the game off by posting analysis regarding lynching day 1. He also says that he is 100% against a random lynch. On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote: Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though His next post attacks my FOS, but agrees that it is suspicious of cosine. On March 12 2012 04:43 Seviro wrote: Yeah sorry, I just thought that FOS someoned base on a single post was a bit over reacting but I understand that you were in fact just stating that he was suspicious and as the day pass I agree more and more since he didn't post since then. Right now it's hard to make a decision though because there is many people that didn't post yet or if they did they just stated their position on the "no lynch/random lynch topics". We need more contribution to not make a mistake on our first lynch (if we decide to lynch that is) Essentially says that FOS based on 1 post is suspicious but agrees with me that he was suspicious for not posting, which was my entire point in the FOS Then goes on to state that its hard to make a decision due to inactivity, then states that more contribution is needed His next post then states the obvious that cosine is getting more and more suspicious as time passes, more fluff After this he does some more analysis on lynching/vs no lynching. Bringing up more not so important issues. Then he feels the need to clarify his first post to make sure we aren’t thinking that he doesn’t want a lynch day 1 and explains it as him wanting to make sure we discuss it first. Then he agrees with a FirmTofu lynch and notes his own suspicions on him, further adding to the bandwagon. Then adds “helpful” fluff making sure that people vote right. In his next post, he brings up koritora being contradictory, possibly trying to make him seem a bit suspicious. Then expresses sadness at tofu dying, and states finally that we should wait for the mafia kill to get information (leading up to his next post maybe?). + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Seviro constructs a WIFOM case to make me seem suspicious and to mislead us after leading up to it with his “waiting for mafia kill” post. Then he makes sure to note to phagga that he is analyzing, like a “see im doing something useful” gesture. Then he pulls the “Im new that’s why I didn’t know WIFOM was bad” card when his case wasn’t received as well as it could have been. He later states that the case on lurkers is a “hard one” as we cannot tell if they are town or scum. Oh really? Then he agrees that the Im new kind of post isn’t okay. Then he provides a reason for him not voting yet, in essence providing a reason for not pointing a finger yet. Then, suddenly, Seviro uses Backwards WIFOM, suddenly understanding the exact opposite side to the case he had made versus me, and uses it to put down Ele, another townie, as his vote. Then he posts fluff on how he messed up on math. On March 16 2012 05:51 Seviro wrote: While I agree on that, I feel like if he flips town we would lose a big contibutor of the town whereas if we lynch Eleanthas there is 2 possibilities: 1. he flips Town and we lose a semi-lurker that didn't help the town at all since the start of the game 2. He turns out to be indeed scum which then we can safely say that Gossemer is most likely a scum as well. I feel like Eleanthas is the safest lynch for today, hence my vote. As for the third possible scum, I don't have a clue yet but if these two are indeed scum that would make it much more easier to find him based on their post. Now he pulls something interesting. He doesn’t want to lynch gossemerr because we would lose a big contributor to the town instead of a lurker, and that if Ele turned scum, Gosse was likely scum. Imagine this from a scum point of view, if Seviro was scum. Seviro could be saying that he wants to lynch a townie instead of his mafia ally, Gossemerr. and not only in a way that excuses him voting for ele, in a way that makes Gosse seem more innocent when Ele flips town. He further defends Gosse moderately in his next post. He defends Gosse voting Janaan even more in the post after that, On March 16 2012 06:52 Seviro wrote: EBWOP It's seem like I missed a part of my post. Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote: GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Then he turns around and: First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this. While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything. And then continues to explain why voting janaan could have made sense in his next. And continues to edit his posting on why janaan could be mafia. He then jumps on board the Nova Scummy again train, and shows again his suspicions for me. Enjoy, this is also why I found Gosse leaning scum, partnered to the points in my earlier case that were not based on connections. I was tempted to vote for no lynch, but as I am starting to think that there may be no dt, it would just prolong our doom, I am afraid, and so, I will vote based on this case and my gut feelings. ##Vote: Seviro | ||
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having 0 blues would suck majorly. im hoping that after i am lynched ( as seems inevitable at this point) 1 lurker is replaced and one is modkilled and the modkilled one is mafia. best case scenario i guess. DT, if you exist, now would be a damn good time for you to show up. | ||
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I actually feel really bad Gossemerr, Its me who hopes that you dont hate me o.O Really well played by mafia, i was so sure mementoss was town... Thanks jaj22 at the end i was trying to figure out what i was doing/defending wrong that got me lynched, but it was my own stupidity in making a case vs seviro(/gossemerr) that really killed me. it made sense that they lynched me. I think i read into Janaans metagame much too hard too. in his last game he had pretty much the same approach and was a vanilla townie. I wish we had lynched cosine day 1 haha. Of course we read the day/night posts, and i thought they were very good and relatively creative. . sorry again to seviro and gossemerr | ||
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EDIT: Hahahah this was my favorite part of the scum QT "When he reads this he is gunna cry, get mad, then say I DEFENDED THIS SO ITS INVALID" ~Mementoss on me Edited again: Also mementoss how is your kitty <3 | ||
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Im hoping i get a blue or red role next game, but green is still fun. Haha you should post pictures of him with the bow. | ||
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I hope next newbie game starts soon | ||
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