Been looking for a mini to hop into.
Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia II
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Been looking for a mini to hop into. | ||
Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On March 01 2012 12:46 Adam4167 wrote: The only person in this game that I know zero about would be Snarfs, everyone else ive read/played at least one game of/with. I don't think you are a smurf, since your account is over a year old, but whats your story? Are you new to TL mafia? or new to forum mafia in general? Is this your first game? Figured I'd take these questions and give a little more information about myself too so that you know what you can expect of me. Yes, I am new to TL mafia, forum mafia in general and this is my first game. Over about the last week and a half I've read/skimmed through quite a few games - I recognize most of the names in this game - and most of the guides as well. I'm really excited for the challenge presented by forum mafia, especially the behaviour (spelt with a 'u') analysis as I studied psych for a couple years at UBC. As for my timetable -> I live on the west coast and can only really not post when I'm sleeping as my job requires me to be in front of a computer all day anyways; however, while I'm at work (regularish working hours) I may have to stop replying in the middle of a conversation if I need to take care of something but I will always come back to respond. ------------------ Now, to the game at hand: One thing I haven't quite picked up on in my readings is what sorts of things to talk about to get the ball rolling. Policy lynches seem like a common topic, but in the end it seems to come down to lynching whoever the most scummy person is, whether they're a lurker, a liar, both, or neither. Yes? | ||
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Canada1006 Posts
On March 01 2012 13:23 Bluelightz wrote: Well, Snarfs responding to your question Policy Lynches end up like this (I'll use LA-Lurkers as an example) A: *Lurks* *Enact Policy* People : A is lurking Lynch him! Anyway, what your saying is analysis, we deduce who is the most scummy in the thread through analysis and lynch him/her at the end of the day. Yes, I understood that, but my point was that analysis can (should?) include lurking and lying. Of course, you would need to differentiate between "lurking" and "afking" while assuming as little as possible which I imagine is a difficult but not always impossible task. | ||
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Is the SK more likely to be of benefit to the town or the mafia during the beginning, middle, and late parts of the game and why? What's his mindset? Is it right to assume he is trying to kill players with KP first? In case you're wondering my motives for asking the question: Understanding each role's motives/mindset helps to uncover the players assuming these roles. Mafia and town are fairly obvious, but I still don't know about the SK (aside from the destroy all humans factor). Also, feel free to berate me for asking such a question. I'm still learning and it'd be good to know if this is not something I should be asking. | ||
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On March 02 2012 04:16 sandroba wrote: Pandain is likely scum because of his entry in the thread. Somehow he is tired to post anything productive, but not tired enough to make a fake contribution saying doing something to get the thread going is wrong. Unlike probulous which I believe was trying to somehow produce content, his post is exactly what he accuses probulous of doing, which is posting with no purpose just to appear to be contributing. Town has no reason to do that and suggest nothing better to discuss. ##Vote: Pandain I don't think this is reason enough to vote Pandain. He's calling Prob out on talking about where people live and saying "hey is anyone here?" (Pandain's quote, not mine). He's not calling him out for talking about things like policy or how to catch scum. Plus, if you look at TL Mafia XXXVIII where he rolls town-side he makes a similar post: On April 09 2011 08:10 Pandain wrote: Alright broskis, let's get some things straight. 1.No Spam To paraphrase Ver, to spam is almost as bad as being useless, sometimes even more so. In fact, I will probably be either lynching a "inactive" or a very spammy person. I have no idea how town nearly won last game(Insane mafia.) That game was a shitfest, and seriously analysis was a drop of water in the desert there. You don't need to share every thought you have. Just don't be inactive, and don't post 70x the amount in a LR thread, and you'll be good. Why are you so quick to jump on him for posting something that typifies his town play? | ||
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Not enought reason to lynch him. (Rather than vote in my first sentence). | ||
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A) It didn't seem like enough reason to lynch somebody based on the quote I gave and B) Based on the lynch rules, it seems like we have to be a bit more careful with throwing around votes without gathering as much info as possible. I could be mistaken on B though, and if I am I would appreciate you letting me know. To follow up though, what part of the rest of the quote in that game which I left out changes the context of what he was saying? | ||
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Canada1006 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:19 Bluelightz wrote: I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho. Seems you've decided Paper is more scummy, but I'd still like to hear an explanation for this one. | ||
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I've noted the defence of Paper, namely that posting short lists of players with little analysis is something he just does. That being said, something else he does is back up his votes with some reasoning. So far, his reasoning for voting deconduo is: deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. Furthermore, Paperscraps' vote for deconduo came shortly after Palmar was grilling him, making him a seemingly easier target to jump on. The combination of the lack of reasoning and the fact that Palmar was grilling dec makes me think that Paper was trying to hop on a wagon while it was forming. | ||
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##Vote Sandroba I'll give a longer(ish) post later, before the day ends. I'm leaving work now and want to make sure that if I get stuck in traffic or anything at least this gets in. | ||
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First off, I didn't like Sandroba's vote on Pandain that early in the day with such terrible reasoning. To paraphrase: "I notice subtleties, that's how I hunt scum". If that's the case, why don't you point out the subtleties for me? I wouldn't be offended. Second, as Probulous mentioned, he doesn't seem to care. This is a stark contrast to previous games I've looked through where he is town. Finally, I will put my trust in some of the more experienced members of this game, especially when it adds up with other things I'm noticing. If Palmar says someone is scum and I have a scummy feeling about them, vs if someone else says someone is scum and I have a scummy feeling about them, it's going to weigh differently and I don't see any point in denying it. That being said, I also have to be more wary of people like Palmar because I am putting a little more faith in them. Anyways, it's 7:00 now so should see the results before I post more.... | ||
Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I agree that it's highly unlikely that AKCT can come up with an explanation that isn't too complicated to be believable. At this point, no matter what he says, the most likely case is that he's a killer. On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula? Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently. However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation, ##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea Assuming Pandain is a watcher unless he claims otherwise, would he not have seen more than one person visiting rgTS if there was more than one person hitting him? If he's a tracker this might work. On March 04 2012 18:07 Paperscraps wrote: Honestly this is very believable. AKCT has played a scummy game so far. AKCT needs to claim a role though, before we proceed with anything. Why's that? Is he your scumbuddy and you want to give him an out? | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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Now I'm about to go to bed, but I did come across something interesting in my reread. Maybe it's something for you guys to discuss. Before rgTS was killed, he was one of the only people pushing a vote on Pandain. Then, afterwards, Pandain causes a bunch of drama that, while throwing the spotlight on himself, also provides the perfect timing for him to say something along the lines of: "There's no way I could do this as mafia. Not a single way." Then, he goes back to pushing a lynch on TheToast, who was another person to push for him. When he fails to garner support for that, he switches to Bluelightz, an easy target because he hasn't posted very much... but maybe that's just what Bluelightz does... he is a hard read as several people have mentioned before. Take this as you will. I know I need to sleep on it and have a look again in the morning before casting my vote. | ||
Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I don't have enough of a read on Pandain yet, but he's on my watch list. He's saying some weird things. Ordering blues around... Making false claims then claiming he's not mafia before anyone accuses him of it... On the other hand, he's contributing a lot and certainly isn't afraid to throw himself in the spotlight. Then there's Sandroba. Either Sandroba is a townie who doesn't care about winning, or he's not a townie. Either way he deserves at least to be lynched. On the plus side, if he does turn out to be a Vet, at least he did his job before going out. | ||
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Why Paperscraps should be lynched tomorrow: To start off the game, we have a couple of not so awesome posts: On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far Vote: deconduo On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game? My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all. ##Vote: Deconduo I messed up the format last time. I point out the fact that his vote lacked any sort of his usual reasoning (something he still hasn't provided), and then add that it came after Palmar was hassling dec. Here is his reply: + Show Spoiler + On March 03 2012 08:42 Paperscraps wrote: The irony in this post is pretty laughable. This whole entire post is pretty hypocritical as well. I play a certain way at the beginning of games to gauge people's reactions. My FoS on Deconduo was because I thought his reads were off base. Then his reaction to my vote seemed overdone. I mean who cares what I think really. I was just one guy voting him up for a reaction test, in which he failed. Now if I understand you correctly, Snarfs, two whole votes on some one is a bandwagon. You could accuse Deconduo for the same logic, which is bad logic btw. Palmar grilling Deconduo has nothing to do with this. Palmar didn't even vote him up, so your last point makes no sense at all. There is no bandwagon. I will be the last person to be lynched in this game and probably one of the first to be murdered during the night. What does Paper focus on? He focuses first on attacking my credibility: Calling the irony in my post laughable and calling my post hypocritical. Then, he gives a short one-liner explaining his vote ("thought his reads were off base"), then justifying a reason for keeping it ("his reaction to my vote seemed overdone"). For reference, dec's response was this: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote: Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you. Is that really an unreasonable response given the accusation? No, it isn't. At the end of the above quote, Paperscraps again attacks my credibility, saying my last point makes no sense at all. Reread the thread. Palmar starts calling out deconduo for a bad read. Paperscraps jumps in with a vote and his reasoning is that deconduo's reads are bad. I make the connection. Makes sense. Then we see this: Also Bluelightz has voted me which is hilarious. Funny, he provided more reasoning for voting than Paperscraps did for his vote. Good attempt at discrediting him though. Jackal, it isn't OMGUS when I voted him first, which I have stated my reasons for doing so. If anything Decon has OMGUS on me right now. At this point, Dec has mentioned Paper in two one-liners this game, the worst of which is to say "We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two." Hardly OMGUS when you consider that up until this point, Paper's filter is indeed pretty bad. Followed by some defending of himself: + Show Spoiler + I know Decon's reads are bad, because I am getting towntells from the people Decon is calling scum. Doesn't the last sentence of this quote strike you as odd? Pushing on Misder and I, the only two people to have him voted up. If that isn't OMGUS, then I don't know what is. I can see a bit of a team forming between Decon and Jackal right now. Pandain has been playing more town as of late. Palmar is playing weird this game so far. He might be scum. This part makes sense: Paper thinks Decon's reads are bad because he's getting town reads from the people Decon is calling scum. This part doesn't: Decon has 2 bad reads a day into the game; therefore, he's scum. Good analysis of Pandain and Palmar as well. Note who he claims who is playing more town and who might be scum; this might be important later. Next up, Paper attempts to defend himself. Nothing really to gather from here, except for the fact that Jackal is one of his top two scum at this point. Jackal who had 8 posts up until that point, none of which could possibly be considered either pro-town or anti-town. However, Jackal did mention that he was okay with lynching Paperscraps. + Show Spoiler + On March 03 2012 09:07 Paperscraps wrote: Hey Bluelightz are you going to change your vote to a better lynch like Decon or Jackal? First off your case against me is weaksauce. I have provided a lot of useful information to town. I got a reaction out of Decon to show his true colors. He is already doubting his reads. Of course I can't be 100% sure on anything, but some players are obviously townie. Bluelightz and Deconduo argument's against me hinge on two main points. 1. I can't know if their reads are bad, unless I am scum 2. Making lists are bad and scummy. When player A towntells and player B calls player A scum, then of course I am going to think something is wrong here. It is pretty reasonable to think they either (a) Player B is scum trying to get a townie lynched or (b) Player B is just bad at mafia and reading bad. I don't see the latter Making lists is NOT scummy. Just because I don't provide a book long post on the merits of each player doesn't make me scum. Making lists is town. It lets you know where my reads are at and gauge me at my scum hunting abilities. Just look at Decon and Jackal's filters and tell me they aren't scum. Jackal's filter takes 5 seconds to read and Decon's filter is full of non-sense and bad arguments. Next, Paper tries to get rg to claim Vig. On March 03 2012 18:02 Paperscraps wrote: rg who are you shooting tonight? At this point my read on rg was either Veteran trying to draw fire, or SK without a clue as to what he was doing. Am I going to try and get rg to claim his blue role though? No. Is any townie going to try and get rg to claim his blue role? No. So why is Paper trying to get him to claim his blue role? Next up we see a great example of how to make a meaningful looking post without actually posting anything, followed by defending a scum buddy: On March 04 2012 07:07 Paperscraps wrote: A)Three people voted Misder: Deconduo, AKCT and Jackal. They all give me a scum vibe, but I can't believe that scum would vote together like that on the first day. At least one of them has to be scum though or they are all just bad at this game. B)Deconduo's little back and forth with Palmar today was interesting. Deconduo calling Palmar bad at scum hunting is pretty funny imo. Deconduo blamed Palmar for Misder's death, but Decon was the one with the vote on Misder. Pretty contradictory. Palmar is still null to me right now although Palmar's read on Misder was correct and Decon's read was wrong, as I have said in previous posts. I am still leaning towards Decon being scum. He is redirecting blame on to others when he should accept responsibility. C)Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler D)A Killer Cuppa Tea uses being drunk as an excuse for pretty much everything. Also AKCT thought Probulous was mafia which is a pretty bad read. Right now I think AKCT is just a ignorant townie. E)Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? A) We can all see who voted Misder. Saying that at least one of them has to be scum? A terrible assumption. 3 out of 13 people (not including Misder himself). And at least one of them has to be scum? Hardly. B) Summarizes Deconduo and Palmar's chat for us. Ends with a slightly weaker read on Dec. Now he's only "leaning towards Decon being scum". What happened there? C) Calls Jackal out for not posting much. Fluff. D) More fluff about AKCT E)Now this is very interesting. Agrees that Sandroba is the easy lynch. Agrees that he's been posting nothing. Disagrees with Sandroba's read (sounds familiar to the Decon case). Then spends 4 sentences convincing himself that Sandroba is a bored vanilla townie? Not looking so good given Sandroba flipped scum. Next up we see Paper claim that he thinks Sandroba is SK and is claiming a fake hit. On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. Then, 9 hours later, his opinion is changed. On March 05 2012 17:35 Paperscraps wrote: Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. And finally, this beauty: On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote: If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba Side note: TheToast is scum. Followed by this: On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote: Slinging unsupported accusations is what I do! Have you been playing this game? Oh, and this: On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all. This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy. Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here. Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting. ##Unvote ##Vote: Deconduo Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. To recap, first he states Sandroba is an SK with a fake claim. Then, he states Sandroba is not worth lynching. Then, he is worth lynching (after votes are 4-2 Sandroba over Bluelightz, with a single vote on Pandain, AKCT, Adam and his own on Dec). Then, the "lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right". Now, you should all compare Paperscraps' posting to his previous games where he was town. The contrast is frightening. There we have such great gems as: On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling". I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid. I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before. On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this *Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1. And he can be reasoned with and isn't afraid to change is vote: On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote: ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: Prplhz Two reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability! Finally, he has the ability to perform good analysis: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299955¤tpage=46#911 Does this look like the same Paperscraps? It certainly doesn't to me. And THAT is why Paperscraps is scum, and should be lynched tomorrow. | ||
Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
"Usual reasoning". Can you be more clear on what you think this is? Are you trying to imply that my read came solely from the Palmar/Deconduo exchange? By usual reasoning, I am referring to previous games where you've actually provided good reasons for going after someone. Whether you're right or wrong makes no difference, it is in town's best interest for people to back up their votes with good reasoning so that we can pull the bullshit away from the truth. If you're not going to back up your vote with good, logical reasoning, or at least a decent attempt at it, then I can only assume that you don't have a good reason and therefore are scum. I am not implying, I am inferring. I am inferring that because of what I just wrote: You hadn't provided good reasons for your vote. If you still think your reasons for voting Deconduo the first time, and then reaffirming your vote were good, then we will have to agree to disagree. You are using the same meta on me in two different ways. You are saying that my posting makes me town, because that is how I played in werewolves mafia. Then you say that my posting makes me scum, because it differs from my posting in my newbie mafia game. I have been town in every mafia game I have played on teamliquid so far. I did not think werewolves was a good game to study because it utilized IRC a lot. Much of the discussion for that game appeared to have taken place outside of the forum. Also, I do not say anywhere that this post makes you town, nor do I compare it to werewolves mafia. You are putting words in my mouth in an attempt to either discredit me or make yourself look better. Focus on what I actually say. So how do we know anyone is anything when we are town? Certain towntells are obvious and Deconduo is either missing them or over looking them. Deconduo's response is loaded, because Deconduo is saying that the only way I can know his reads are bad is if I am scum. I could use this argument against you right now, saying that you read is horrible, because you think I am scum, when I am town. Just because his reads were on other people, doesn't mean I can't deem them bad. I can't know with 100% certainty if they are wrong or not, but mafia is a game of induction and deduction. We know from logic and reasoning as you say at the end of this paragraph. Your argument lacked both and if you were to use the same argument against me, it would again lack both. To clarify, this is good logic: Deconduo thinks Probulous and Misder are scum Probulous and Misder are both town (assuming Prob at this point) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Therefore, Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad This is not good logic: Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad ----------------------------------------------------- Therefore, Deconduo is scum You mentioned deduction. Show me how you made this argument. I've taken logic and philosophy courses, I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong when you show me what I'm missing. Quality > quantity. Bluelightz says a lot of things, but there is really no substance behind anything he says. I agree, Bluelightz is lacking in substance. Hard to argue against that. What I'm focusing on though is that your posts have lacked substance while trying to appear to have substance. Not sure, what you are trying to get at here. You are saying that my voting of Decon is unjustified. Then Decon foses me with very little reasoning and that isn't OMGUS? Double standard. No comment here. I agree, Decon FoSing you was silly. Deconduo's read coupled with his reaction to my fos is what made me think he is scum LOL. Ok let me explain something to you here. rg was soft claiming Vig pretty hard. Why would someone do this? THEY WANT TO GET SHOT. Ok, so now that we all understand that, we have to try and decipher if the claim seems legit or not. rg was being pretty obvious and blunt about it. My assumption was that he was either a Vet or vanilla townie trying to take one for the team. How can I help rg get shot then? Try and make people believe that I think he is a real vig. (hint hint I really didn't think this) Thus, rg's plan worked out perfectly. I may have even helped. I don't think he was soft claiming. I think he was slapping us in the face with the fact that he had killing power. Why would he do this if he was actually a vig? I don't think anyone would think he's actually a vig at that point. But you know who would want to make sure? Mafia. Misder was town. People voting him are stupid or mafia/sk Misder was contributing nothing and could easily have garnered 3 out of 13 votes without any of them being Mafia. Why would you discount the possibility that there were no mafia on him? I was always leaning towards Decon being scum. I don't understand your implication. My implication was this: First you are certain Decon is scum. Now you are only leaning towards him being scum. If this is false, please correct me. Yeah definite fluff. Trying to get someone to be more active, help scumhunt and all that jazz. /sarcasm I don't think you can count calling out inactive people as a contribution either way. Honestly this analysis on AKCT holds the same weight as people's read on Sandroba. Sandroba says he is too busy to post. AKCT says he is too drunk to post or post anything coherent. Maybe scum is playing the afk/lurk/not care game. This was not an analysis. This was stating the obvious on someone you think is town. This was fluff. Me: E)Now this is very interesting. Agrees that Sandroba is the easy lynch. Agrees that he's been posting nothing. Disagrees with Sandroba's read (sounds familiar to the Decon case). Then spends 4 sentences convincing himself that Sandroba is a bored vanilla townie? Not looking so good given Sandroba flipped scum. You: I am not infallible. Honestly though I would be raging pretty hard if I were mafia this game, because Sandroba played horribly. I would like to hear more about why you still thought Decon was a better vote than Sandroba day 1. Surely you thought that Misder was town based on Deconduo's horrible read. That gave you the chance at the end of Day 1 of lynching Sandroba instead. My problem here is that if Sandroba has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's a bored townie. If Decon has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's scum. I can't make a good argument against you for why you left your vote on Deconduo instead of Sandroba without making any assumptions; but it would certainly help your case if you could explain it to me (preferably without taking it personally, but that's up to you). The bandwagon on Sandroba went up very quickly and Sandroba was very scummy, that it was almost too easy. Like seriously I called it the night before how easy it would be to lynch Sandroba. So, I second guess myself and look bad. Not voting with the majoity doesn't make me scum. If I were scum, I would have just bussed Sandroba to make myself look town. See the contrast here? Scum obviously bussed Sandroba. Or maybe you would switch your vote so that later you can say that if you were scum, you would have just bussed Sandroba to make yourself look town. I don't know that I can argue with you here, scum could do either, always looking to get one step ahead of town in situations like this. Look at my last game in werewolves mafia. I have played the same. You are basing your meta off my game in newbie mafia, I don't play like that anymore with big long analytic posts, because they are unnecessary and anyone can contort peoples words to whatever they like. Just as you have done above. I'll reiterate that much of werewolves appeared to be played in IRC. Also, I'll give you that you don't make big long analytic posts anymore. That's fine. But for the sake of the town, please don't stop giving good, logical reasoning for your votes! If you really are town, then you've certainly wasted a lot of my time by acting scummy. What happened to this Paperscraps? On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling". I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid. I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before. Or this one? On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this *Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1. Or this one? On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote: ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: Prplhz Two reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability! Just because you don't make big long analytic posts anymore doesn't mean you're throwing logic and reasoning completely out the window. Only scum would do that because they really have no logic or reasoning to back their suspicions. Let me bring up some points to you. 1. I have rolled town every game in tl mafia, thus you have no scum play to read. 2. You are using proof by contradiction off my town meta to call me scum. My town play has been evolving since newbie mafia, so this isn't valid. 3. I have played pretty similar to my last game in werewolves mafia, where my reads were decent when it came to finding scum. If you want to use meta to read me then use that. If this is your town play "evolving" then you should really reconsider what your end goal is. | ||
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On March 07 2012 06:45 Paperscraps wrote: TLDR: One townie calls another townie scum. They argue back and forth and nothing is gained. This is the main reason I don't post big huge analytic posts. I did that in my first game against CatsNHats, who I thought was scum and made pretty convincing cases against him. CatsNHats was actually town and thus I was blind to the real mafia,Cephiro, who I thought was town. Basically CatsNHats and I tunneled each other and argued constantly losing the game for town. This is what is happening here. Mafia is sitting back, watching two townies rip each other apart. But wait there is a difference this time! I think Snarfs is town and won't tunnel him back, so we have a chance! Meh, I don't think anything was lost here. I had fun typing it up if nothing else. So which of these is the most scummy: Decon, Adam, Pandain, other? | ||
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On March 07 2012 09:05 Palmar wrote: I am a soft kitty Clearly this game is playing tricks on my mind. | ||
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On March 07 2012 12:34 Pandain wrote: #vote Paperscraps Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it. | ||
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I gotta agree with Prob and the recently deceased on this one. Adam has been actively posting without providing any content. Here's a good example for you: On March 02 2012 12:58 Adam4167 wrote: Prob, my activity will come in bursts most of the game. I have uni back on now and also I don't like posting just for the sake of it, only when I feel I have something relevant to contribute. I find Palmar interesting, as I do in every one of our games. I think his exchange with you from yesterday was an exercise in stating the obvious, something I don't expect from him. As I said to him yesterday, everything he was stating was stuff that townies should already be doing and the fact that he needed to stress it across 4 posts shows that he is either just talking for the sake of putting words on a page, or he has no faith in this town. Right now, I am leaning towards he is not town. I find Pandains 'analysis' of Killer Cup interesting also. Pandain warns about making assumptions about your accusers here. Then he goes on to make the assumption that Killer Cup is so scummy that he cant be scum here. I made that assumption in Arkham City with jaybrundage, that he looked so damn scummy that he had to be bad town. Nope, wrong. He was just obvscum. I don't agree with Pandains logic, but that doesn't make him scum, so I have him as null for now. Misder, if you have all those reads on everyone, why not write a paragraph on each one and detail how you got to those reads. Writing everyone's name and then an alignment is pointless and we all love pointless lists around here. Your OMGUS vote on deconduo is weak. You're voting him because he has different reads to you? You need to start putting effort into your reads. I also don't know what this is: I have been actively not contributing since day 1. But it certainly isn't pro-town. And this: You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself. This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180. Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction. Looks an awful lot like misdirection to me. I don't want to just leave it at that though. The strength of the town is in our numbers. Can we not use that? One thing that immediately pops out is Adam's recent vote on Probulous. Can anyone else besides Adam give a good reason for voting up Probulous? I mean, he seems like the most pro-town guy left! I would really like to hear Pandain and Dec's opinions on this, given they're the remaining veterans here. It also wouldn't hurt if AKCT chimed in, I feel like we haven't heard from that guy in awhile. | ||
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On March 07 2012 13:43 Adam4167 wrote: You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself. This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180. Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction. ##Vote Probulous I think rather than nailing Probulous on this assumption, it would be in the best interests of the town to explain why you are not voting for Pandain given that you noticed it. | ||
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Adam has already had a case made against him. Pandain:
decon:
Obviously my case against decon is very weak. But who are our alternatives? AKCT's reaction to Pandain should pretty much clear his name, but he has disappeared since then. I would really like to hear a good reason for this. Bluelightz??? How the hell do you read this guy? Paper? Maybe, but his reasoning for hitting Jackal makes sense, he did think he was scum. Also, I do believe him when he admits that he should have called the shot before the deadline. I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong, and I definitely think I was wrong about Paper unless I see some sort of evidence to disbelieve his claim. My case against Pandain does revolve a bit around Adam being mafia. I think we have enough reason at this point to lynch Adam today though. | ||
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anyway staying lurkerish but not being ompletely inactive actually gets you off the mind of people XD and this: I Think my lurkerish state is lurkerish enough to stop a case being made on me ^_^ in the quick topic Adam linked earlier on Bluelightz, I would be very happy to lynch Bluelightz today. | ||
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We're at 6-2-1 right now assuming an SK. If we mess this lynch up we could potentially be at a worst case of 3-2-1 if mafia and SK both kill a townie. I mean, this lynch is so important for town today. Where're the contributions from AKCT, Bluelightz, Pandain, etc.?? | ||
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On March 08 2012 09:20 Probulous wrote: I assume from that post and your previous one that you believe Paper's claim? What do you think of my defense of him? I am not 100% convinced but it justs seems more likely that he is a naive Vet than scum or SK. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. To me, it looked like an honest mistake. I think we could make a ton of assumptions or guesses, but in the end, mafia and SK are trying to look like town anyways. Unless we have evidence to refute his claim, we're better off targeting people who look more scummy. | ||
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##Vote Bluelightz This feels more right as of now. Bluelightz deserves to die. When I get home from work tonight I'm going to reread the thread again and try and untangle this mess, but I have the same feeling for Bluelightz as I did for Sandroba, and that is that no matter what he flips, he deserves to be lynched and I can be happy with that. Still 25.5 hours to go though, who knows what will be said that can't be unsaid. | ||
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On March 08 2012 10:37 TheToast wrote: Ummm wait a minute here. Total number of mafia is hidden in this game. How is it you seem to know how many scum players there are in this game?? I suppose you could have guessed/reasoned from balance, but you didn't say that. You didn't even bother to share your reasoning as to why you think there were 3 scum to start off with. Why would you go out of the way to point out that you are assuming the existence of the SK but not to mention you are assuming numbers on Mafia? Explain please. Sorry, I just assumed that these games are all typically balanced the same. 4 anti-town to 10 town made sense to me. | ||
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On March 08 2012 09:07 Snarfs wrote: You know what? After reading quotes like this: and this: in the quick topic Adam linked earlier on Bluelightz, I would be very happy to lynch Bluelightz today. I realized Adam's link doesn't go straight to the mafia QT for that game. Here it is for easy reference: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/sBtbs6s2Fwh | ||
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On March 08 2012 13:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late. ##Vote Bluelightz Why would you say this and then vote for Bluelightz instead of Adam? | ||
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Just finished rereading the thread, need to dump some thoughts. ---------- For a "confirmed townie", A Killer Cuppa Tea is playing pretty bad. Especially for someone who claims that he has played "a pretty large amount of games. Before that though: Hi! I'm AKillerCuppaTea, but you can call me Tea. I'm from the UK. My experience of mafia on TL is none whatsoever, but I have played a pretty large amount of games on a number of other forums as well as irc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299955¤tpage=16#304 Pandain hasn't come back to support his extremely quick vote for Paperscraps, but he was online about 7 hours after it. On rereading the thread, my case against Paper was pretty bad. The only decent cases started coming out against Paper after Pandain's vote, not before. He couldn't use that as evidence so why was he so quick to jump on Paper? We know Pandain is capable of orchestrating... pretty much anything. Is it possible that a scum team of Tea, Sandroba, and Pandain came up with this plan from the start? Palmar claimed that he would bet on this being a town-Pandain, but he also said he'd lynch him for being bad anyways. Plus, there's the whole 'throw my vote on the guy who's claiming blue because he's under a little scrutiny'. --------- Jackal, Probulous, and Palmar all claimed at one point earlier that Adam was giving them bad vibes for different reasons. Adam tried to make a case against Probulous? --------- Bluelightz has been absent most of the game. He has contributed 2 posts of worth. One was an attack on Paper that was worse than mine, and the other was a list of players with his scum readings. Either of which could have come from either town or scum. --------- After consideration, I'm going to put my vote back on Adam for now. Palmar said at the beginning of the game that if a vet dies, we should make sure we go back and give their reads a chance. Both Jackal and Palmar had bad feelings about Adam and I trust their reads far more than I trust my own. That being said, I feel that Adam's attack against Probulous and his switch to Bluelightz with a null read were both quite scummy. I voted Bluelightz because I convinced myself he was scum. I still think that either he's scum or he should have asked for a replacement ages ago, but I've been told by multiple people that this is how he plays. I think it is too late to lynch Bluelightz for being a null read. If he turns up town this game, I will certainly back any Lynch Bluelightz day 1 policies in the future. As to the attack against Probulous, he claims that he had his case ready on March 06 2012 08:55. Then he finally pushes it on March 07 2012 13:43 after first being called out by Probulous? Sorry it took me for taking so long to get to this conclusion, but: ##Vote Adam4167 | ||
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On March 08 2012 21:45 deconduo wrote: Pretty sure the was Palmar breadcrumbing his watcher claim. I can't find any Night 1 result breadcrumb though. Possibly this: But thats either spam or too cryptic for me. As I pointed out before, soft kitty could easily be serial killer. Sometimes I just wanna cuddle? Maybe he's pretending to say something the serial killer would say because he has a hunch. Just guessing at that one. I realize now though that I could easily have got both the serial killer and the mafia wanting to kill Palmar night 2 by pointing that out . Serial killer because they want to make sure if he knows he isn't able to tell anyone. Mafia because it could look like he himself is claiming serial killer. If that's true, I'm sorry Palmar. | ||
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On March 09 2012 02:12 Paperscraps wrote: @Snarfs: If Pandain or AKCT is scum, do you think the other is scum necessarily? No, I don't think that if one of them should turn up scum that we should just assume the other one is. I do think it's evidence against the other person though. | ||
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On March 09 2012 07:03 TheToast wrote: And Pandain is shady as fuck. Thoughts? While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list, this is something I can keep coming back to agree on. Notice how when asking for someone else's opinion on Paper, he asks the only other guy to have voted for him today? That's shadddddy. | ||
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On March 09 2012 07:38 Probulous wrote: Adam4167 I think Paperscraps is a town vigilante. Yes I believe his claim because as I keep outlining the supposedly "scummy" things (eg. timing) about his claim are bad for town, mafia and SK so I don't see how it makes him scum. He was consistent in his FOS on Jackal and second guessed himself on decon. As for Pandain, I am looking at his push for the sandroba lynch. Right now that is what makes him town in my mind but I am taking a closer look. I think you're confusing something. Pandain was never pushing for a Sandroba lynch. He was actively against it. | ||
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On March 09 2012 08:30 Pandain wrote: The thing is it doesn't matter whether he had pushed Jackal beforehand..... Jackal was an easy target. Never posted and hardly a contribution, and was a vet. And they would've known he was town. Of course mafia would point at him. Just because there's consistancy doesn't mean he's town..... you have to look at the whole portrait. Take for example, his reads. He was suspicious of decon, jackal, and toast. Toast I actually am learning towards town now given the huge contributions he's been doing lately, trying to figure stuff out. Decon I'm almost certain is town. And Jackal, as we all know now, is town. Bad reads could be either town or mafia. This is something I've learned quite quickly this game. What has he done regarding the only confirmed mafia(sandroba) Before the night ends, he states hish reasons against voting sandroba because "he's too easy." To be fair, When Sandroba claims, this is what he describes. However later he would backtrack, saying that we should not lynch him because he claimed............vet.(yeah, vet). First off, this doesn't make sense. You state specifically that he says we shouldn't lynch sandroba because he claimed "vet", then give a quote where he doesn't even mention that? Also, this could very easily be a vigilante trying to figure out where the other shot would come from. If he knows that he's holding a shot, then he's going to be the most interested an vested in who the other shooters are. Plus, if we were just to look at the Sandroba case, why should we have more reason to believe yourself over Paperscraps? You both made some shady vote switches which are going to be working against you now. If anything, you were more defensive about the Sandroba lynch than Paper was. After Sandroba basically gave up, Paper finally votes against him. Then we have this suspicious post. Read this post, over and over. There are many things that feel wrong in this post. From the "inb4 you guys call me scum" to the "going to change my vote anyways , this post just is oddly timed. First off, he clearly states the truth here. The bandwagon on Sandroba went up really fast and Sandroba did not put up a fight. Again, I'd like to reiterate that you also did some very scummy things around the time of the Sandroba flip. Also, again, he could merely be confused because he knows he has a shot. Finally, I think you're being quite hypocritical: After your gambit against Tea you claimed that there was absolutely no way that you could be mafia. This sounds very similar to Paper's "inb4 you guys call me scum". Also, you're switch on Sandroba also looked very scummy, but you weren't afraid to do it. Why should Paper be? Then he posts this, which is his longest post, and coincidentally because he was accused of being scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=62048¤tpage=2 Note in this post he says he asked rg who he was going to shoot because "he wanted to play along." No , that's a horrible excuse. I can't even explain why its so wrong, just read it and realize why that 1. Isn't how you would do it. 2. Hurts town if he does say who he's going to shoot 3. is a anti town question in general. Do you think it's possible that he asked rg who he was going to shoot because, knowing that he himself is a vigilante, he knows that rg is fake claiming and he wants to find out what he's up to? Also, this was your defense as to why it was okay for Adam to ask you if you were watcher/tracker: Maybe Paper is trying to infer whether rg was claiming so that he could counterclaim. I just see a lot of things that look similar between yourself and Paper, which is why I don't see why you would be making this case. Can you not see these similarities? | ||
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On March 09 2012 09:27 Bluelightz wrote: I have a small feeling that Probulous might be scum............ I agree Paperscraps could be SK as how tonights number of KP that got fired was 2, Either that we have a gloriously awesome medic that blocked the SK shot last night or hit a vet I'm not sure. Right now, I will vote Paperscraps instead of just leaving my vote to be useless on me ##Vote: Paperscraps Bluelightz, I encourage you to read my response before you disappear. | ||
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On March 09 2012 10:00 Snarfs wrote: It would not surprise me at this point if there is no SK but rather there is a mafia team of Sandroba, Adam, Pandain and Bluelightz. Actually, that wasn't very well thought out. I rescind this comment for the time being. | ||
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Why is decon town in your eyes? I don't see what makes him so town that you would suggest saving him tonight. | ||
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On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Yikes! Does this mean I'm dying tonight and you want to look like you had no clue when I flip, or do you have something to back that up? | ||
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On March 10 2012 11:01 deconduo wrote: Why? He has flip flopped the whole game. Look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=25#495 Then this quote: The just two hours later, he defends Paper and pushes the lynch on Adam instead: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=35#681 Also this comment of his annoyed me: I have no problem defending myself to try and alleviate your concerns. First off, yes I did flip flop a lot. I voiced my opinions and suspicions as they came across my mind. While I realize this may not have been the best idea, perhaps I should have waited until I had more information on things, you have to appreciate that this is my first game of forum mafia ever. I'm not trying to say that anything suspicious I did can be blamed on this, but certainly I think it justifies my unfiltered responses and comments. Second, I have already stated that I don't see any reason to disbelieve Paper's vig claim. I think that both sides were brought up, mostly by Probulous and Pandain, and in the end, I choose to believe that he is telling the truth. Also, here is the full quote for reference (it is in reference to Pandain being shady): On March 09 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote: While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list, this is something I can keep coming back to agree on. Notice how when asking for someone else's opinion on Paper, he asks the only other guy to have voted for him today? That's shadddddy. Third, I did think it was silly of you to just claim that Paperscraps was going to be lynched day 2 after he voted you. I didn't see any reasoning for you to FoS him. Finally, I apologize for implying you might be scum when you're being a tough read. However, I thought I would put that thought out there so that if something should happen to me tonight, people would at least consider the option. | ||
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Paperscraps + Show Spoiler + As I've stated before, I'm always willing to change my views in light new evidence. Up until day 3, I'll admit, I had quite a bias against Paper, and I was actively looking for flaws in his play. However, I have seen absolutely no reason to disbelieve his vig claim. The vig claim: Paper takes particular interest in the vigilante claim. So much so that it caused me to think he was fishing for a blue role. Makes sense when he claims vig that he was probably trying to call rg out on his bluff. rg who are you shooting tonight? Also, he makes it quite clear from the beginning that he expects a lot out of Jackal. Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler On Sandroba: This quote was brought up as "damning" by both Pandain and Probulous: Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here. However, there are 14 players and up until that point, everyone had been assuming there were at least 2 KP: 1 from mafia and one from SK. Ask yourself if you really expected only a single kill. It makes sense that Sandroba was hit by an SK! He turned out to be mafia and I've been informed that SK goes after mafia first. Now, what about the KP on night 2? What's the missing link? Well, do you think it's so unreasonable that mafia and SK would both want to get rid of a town-sided Palmar? Sure, SK doesn't know Palmar's town, but they know he's not on their team. Who else were they going to kill? There is no reason to try and convince ourselves otherwise if it is the simplest explanation; therefore, we can't assume that they didn't double stack. If we do this, we are allowing ourselves to believe there is one less killer than there could potentially be, and that would probably not be good. My accusation: Paper's first reaction to my accusation is very town. While scum would be happy to lurk and not have people actively playing the game, he was happy that people were attempting analysis. Holy crap this is awesome! People are actually playing the game now. His answers to my accusations were all very towny. He understood that i actually believed he was scum and he tried to clear things up for me, quite patiently. He did not try to misdirect my claims, he did not try to discredit me. Even so, it was clear he was getting exasperated with me. Quite understandably. Conclusion: Paperscraps is our town vigilante. While his shot on Jackal, in hindsight, could have cost us one of our best Day 3 analysts, he had good reasoning in his own mind to take it. Bluelightz + Show Spoiler + This will be a short section. His first (only) useful post that came when he was not under attack was an analysis of a person I am convinced is town (Paperscraps). He never explained his reasoning for thinking Pandain was scummy. I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho. Oh, I forgot to tell I don't find Pandain scummy after I read his filter He claimed rgTS was third party, but also most likely to flip scum. rgTheSchworz - Leaning Third Party Maybe... Right now, I believe rgTS has the largest chance of being scum so I am voting him. His reaction to Misder's flip was... unbelievable? I.... I.... what happened His response to taking pressure was to roll over and die. I don't care If I get lynched, If Town wants to lynch me fine. Know that the mislynch is on you. I could go on... just read his filter. He finally shows up when he has 3 votes on him and is likely to be lynched. And even then it's to provide more excuses. Day 1, I voted for rgTheSchworz because I believed he had the highest chance of flipping so called "scum", I botched up the sentence for voting by saying "scum" and not "third party" like I suspected him to be. I admit, I have been providing excuses for most of the time because im at school for most of the time of the day. And, I start posting at this ridiculous time because I went like School -> Pick-Up Dad -> Pick-Up Mom -> Dinner at a restaurant -> now As I've stated before, based on this one game, I would happily lynch Bluelightz day 1 any other game if he turns out to be town. He has provided NOTHING of use. He has actively contributed to the thread to make it look like he is not lurking with fluff "I'm going to bed" posts. His redemption: Not voting for Adam when Adam was up for lynch. I don’t think that cuts it. Why? Because I don’t think Bluelightz cares who gets lynched, he’s probably an SK. Probulous + Show Spoiler + Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree . Pandain + Show Spoiler + There have been some really scummy things. First of all, he bandwagoned on the Sandroba vote after a pitiful attempt to save him. Makes a slip in calling Sandroba “scum” twice as opposed to the SK he thought he was. I don’t actually know if that’s a slip. Do we refer to all anti-town as scum, or just mafia? There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse. But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum Then, during the night of Night 2, he has 7 out of 8 posts that are just fluff. I think the most damning thing about Pandain’s play though, was on Day 3. First, he votes Paperscraps immediately after his blue claim without any logic put behind it at all. His only mention of Paperscraps before this was much earlier in the game when he claimed that he was town, basically for WIFOM reasons (can’t be mafia because they wouldn’t push the same person over and over, can’t be SK because they wouldn’t be that active). Then, without defending his reasoning, he disappears for nearly 2 full days, only to show up 6 hours before the deadline. At that point, he dismisses all the evidence that people have provided against Paper and makes a big fluff post with 2 pointless lists and an excuse for being gone for 24 hours that just DOES NOT match up with his post. Look at what he claims: Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. Does that make sense given that this is what follows: On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote: I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be: 1. Serial killer. 2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment: 1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis) I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything..... No. It is completely incongruent. After Toast calls him out on this post, he shows up over 2 hours later with his justifications which boil down to calling out Paperscraps on a bunch of things he himself is guilty of. Conclusion: Scum. Oh this is great, I wrote this up about 7 hours before the lynch but he keeps talking. My read on Adam was uncertain. I was uncertain about everyone until i looked at it for like 36 hours, which you guys are like omg lurking. Then im like omg paper is wtf There’s no way you can be certain if you don’t have all the facts! This is so scum. Town would admit that there is a gap in their knowledge but Pandain refuses to admit when he could be wrong. TheToast + Show Spoiler + Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree . A Killer Cuppa Tea + Show Spoiler + Really tough to get a read on this guy. When he does post, I feel he explains his actions very well. Unfortunately, he doesn’t post a lot. His excuses have been a laptop dying and a mild concussion. I don’t think there’s enough evidence either way as to whether he is scum or town. He says that hopefully once he gets home he’ll be able to contribute. That’d be nice. deconduo + Show Spoiler + Really doesn’t have a lot of substance posts this game. Has proven in the past that he’s not afraid to bus a scum buddy night 1, bussing Sandroba would probably be just as easy if not easier on night 2 so I can’t see how that could be evidence for him being town. See decon vs. Annul in TL Mafia 37: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=25#490 Hops on Adam’s bandwagon after reiterating points that have already been made, but what else was there to say about Adam at that point? Doesn’t really say whether he’s mafia or not. Conclusion: I’m leaning scum on him. There just hasn’t been much substance, but he has been trying to make himself look active. Conclusions + Show Spoiler + I’d be happy lynching Pandain today. I think Bluelightz is a possible SK candidate given that pretty much everyone has tried to lynch him at one point or another but he’s still around not contributing. When Pandain flips red, until further evidence is provided, I would be happy with either a deconduo or AKCT lynch, preference being given to lynching deconduo. And most importantly + Show Spoiler + A very special thank you to Probulous Whether you’re town or scum, you still think I'm semi competent and helped me get my points through unblocked. Thanks man. | ||
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##Vote Bluelightz I've explained this already, and given the flip I'm going to leave it here while we figure things out. | ||
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On March 10 2012 21:02 Bluelightz wrote: Yeah decon I realized it but didnt bother to correct sorry :| How does Mafia have a medic(the sandroba hit?) It's not you posting things that are incorrect that seems mafia-esque. It's you posting things, realizing you're wrong, but then waiting for someone else to call you out on it rather than correcting yourself. You did the same thing with thinking Pandain was suspicious and then never explaining your vote switch to Paper. Care to explain this behaviour? | ||
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On March 11 2012 21:39 Bluelightz wrote: Oh, and im sure your gonna speak up on my contradicton, so for more clarity please ignore the reads of me thinking BOTH AKCT & Snarfs are town thanks^^ Lol. | ||
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How often does scum do that? | ||
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##Vote TheToast | ||
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Just let me know and I'll oblige. | ||
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On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: For reference Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland | ||
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Jackal was listed as "shot on night 2" for the better part of a few days as opposed to the traditional "killed on night 2" while Paperscraps claimed that his vig role came with a high-calibre rifle... But that wasn't why my mind changed so radically on Paper. I saved Palmar night 2 and knew there were two KP on him. The vig claim was the only thing that made sense. I tried to make it as obvious that I was defending Paper as I dared without giving myself away but clearly I didn't do a good enough job . | ||
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On March 10 2012 11:59 Snarfs wrote: And most importantly + Show Spoiler + A very special thank you to Probulous Whether you’re town or scum, you still think I'm semi competent and helped me get my points through unblocked. Thanks man. I thought this tidbit would be enough to convey that information when I flipped medic. Thoughts? Too cryptic? | ||
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I know I learned a ton from start to finish and look forward to playing again. | ||
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On March 13 2012 12:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, all role PMs were exactly the same as in the OP, i.e. there was no flavour. I'm not sure if he said that before or after the post where it said Jackal was shot. Most of the time I interchange shot and killed for night kills. It's a bad habit, but flavour had nothing to do with who performed what. The same thing, but Jackal had his throat slit in the Day post, and Paper claimed he was a vig not the sk, and then it says Jackal is shot, so all the flavour was inconsistent, because it had no real bearing on the game. Ah okay, I thought maybe it was in his flavour. Maybe he saw that on the front page and made that claim, who knows. | ||
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