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On March 02 2012 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
It should be noted also that there might have been a misunderstanding about the sabotage rules - there was a night-phase in Resistance 1 where the scum team was given the opportunity to submit a sabotage. In this game it looks like scum have to submit their sabotage WITH their vote...so it's possible there's scum on the successful team who forgot to submit their sabotage. And with as many 'Failed to vote' as we've had, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Just putting that out there. I think the original three sent is a good starting point, but don't just write us off as auto-town either. If one of us just stops making sense or starts acting super scummy, don't be afraid to call us out and if necessary, replace us over the course of discussion today. But have a damn good reason, because a successful mission is successful.
As for who I want on the next team, I'm torn between derp and kita. Gonna reread and see what I see.
Good shit guys.
Why would you ever write that?!?! I have made the same thought but why write it out now when town have NO use for this what so ever.
To me this could just as easily said:
"Hey scumbuddies, Sorry. I fucked up. I thought there was a nightphase and I would sabotage there. Turns out there isn't and I should have sabotaged earlier."
Next team: Dirk, Nav, Ve and Prplhz
Prplhz is making ton of sense and we can't get into an argument about whether or not palmar is scum.
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yeah sure, I'll support prplhz as an addition to that team.
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also ve lol, that post is such huge wifom, because I had no idea such a mechanic would exist, and I'm wondering why you would know that
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On March 02 2012 18:55 Palmar wrote:
also ve lol, that post is such huge wifom, because I had no idea such a mechanic would exist, and I'm wondering why you would know that
I'm continouisly amazed of how bad people are at reading OP's. I knew it. It's in the Voting OP.
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@kita
You are casually comparing a day1 team pushed hard by Palmar to a later team pushed by a less experienced and reputable player. It's bad to listen to Palmar just because of his reputation but that doesn't mean that a lot of people aren't very often influenced by how he's quite experienced and how he's right more often than the average player. Just because it was pushed by him and in the way he pushed it, I think it's very weird that it failed. Usually, when Palmar wants to lynch somebody on day1, that guy gets lynched. If that guy suddenly doesn't get lynched and a lot of people support another lynch with a bad reasonable, then that makes you very suspicious of the situation.
If you think he was the only scum on it then I think it's so weird that not even one of the other two spies voted yay with how hard Palmar was pushing it. Imagine [UoN]Sentinel as a spy (that's not very hard), would he nay that team that Palmar pushed it so hard and was going to get sabotaged and then on a shoddy reasonable? I really think that the team is extremely likely to be all town since it was nayed. I yayed it on a weaker reasonable (mostly just some gut reads on all of the players along with chaos13's analysis of Navilus, I didn't as much time for this game in the beginning as I would have liked to have had) but that turned out to be a good decision since I'm now extremely sure of three other townies.
You'll also notice how Palmar and I proposed the VisceraEyes, Dirkzor, Navilus team at a point where we thought (well at least I did) that Dirkzor, Navilus and both of us would yay it and that VisceraEyes would probably seal the deal since he was on it. Why would either of us take such a risk as scum, to submit to accepting a team that apparently doesn't contain any spies, with the only thing that could stop us would be a townie voting nay to a team that he himself was on? We're also both prepared to yay VisceraEyes, Dirkzor, Navilus and the other. Does this look like one of us is scum?
I also think it's weird that you think Blazinghand is town. I know that he's loud.
Anyway, you guys better yay this or have a pretty good reason for why I am scum.
VisceraEyes/Dirkzor/Navilus/prplhz
This is a decent team.
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Huh. I sent my votes in this time, but they're not even in my PM outbox. Strange.
I would yayvote the same team again, even if Dirk is on it. It would make zero sense to nayvote a team that was just successful.
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On March 02 2012 12:23 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav.
On February 21 2012 18:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry, can't deal with a Navillus team. He stopped by the thread a couple of times to ask questions and generally fail. The fact that he showed up after the deadline to offer a "team" and then immediately dipped up out is even more disconcerting, IMO. I really think you could have done better than Navillus. Much better.
I like Dirk. I'm not actually super pleased with you on the team either, especially if you think Navillus is somehow one of the three townest players in this game.
There are much better people you could have picked as man #3 for the team, like Kita or myself.
That being said, thank you for suggesting a team.
##Vote Palmar: Nay
Find the difference...
Can't? I'll spell it out for you.
Post 1)
BH say that its unlikely that I'm scum if Palmar is scum based on Palmars first team suggestion. Reason for that is, if Palmar is scum he would want to bring 2 town players with him.
Post 2)
BH suggests that Navillus is scum (or atleast scummy looking) based on Navillus lack of thread presence and due to him not suggesting a team in time.
He also think that Palmar is looking scummy for choosing Navillus as a member of Palmars team.
How could BH not find the same reasoning in Post 2) that he did in Post 1) ?
Also why did he think this in between those two posts:
On February 23 2012 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't like Dirk since his interaction with you (palmar). I don't like Navillus, period. Currently acceptable third members for a team with VE or Sent: Chaos13, BH. MAYBE PRPL but I don't really like him atm.
BH is scum. And by extention so is Chaos13.
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On March 02 2012 14:33 Navillus wrote:
So this should be sort of completely absolutely 100% obvious but same team, also I think this puts these 3 people almost completely in the clear as if there was a scum their options are 1. sabatoge now 2. sabatoge day 2 with same team which yields them exactly 0 benefit over sabatoging day 1 and gives us a free day or 3. wait til we get a bigger team day 3 (someone said this is happening, that is true correct?) in which case they've left themselves with 0 room for error which seems just stupid.
Why would it yield them zero benefit? By your logic, if I was town and one scum was already on the team, and team was sabotaged, who do you think would be FoS'ed?
(It's me.)
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Cool.
I'll nay a prpl team if he includes himself. We just passed through a team, why would we send one of the likely scum suspects when we have a chance at winning this? Just because it happens to be his turn for submission, doesn't mean that he we should settle for a less than ideal member. There is no longer a threat for a draw.
Obviously I would prefer myself to be the fourth member. I know palmar and prpl have been opposing me, but we don't need scum votes to pass it through. Just because they are outspoken against me, doesn't mean they've got the towns best interests in mind. I think there are enough players that we could pass this through.
I think its funny that blazing passed through the first successful team and everyone comes to the assumption that he is scum. If he submitted the team, why wouldn't he be added on as the fourth member? If I'm not able to be part of the team, then I think blazing makes the most sense.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On March 02 2012 23:43 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:23 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav. Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 18:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry, can't deal with a Navillus team. He stopped by the thread a couple of times to ask questions and generally fail. The fact that he showed up after the deadline to offer a "team" and then immediately dipped up out is even more disconcerting, IMO. I really think you could have done better than Navillus. Much better.
I like Dirk. I'm not actually super pleased with you on the team either, especially if you think Navillus is somehow one of the three townest players in this game.
There are much better people you could have picked as man #3 for the team, like Kita or myself.
That being said, thank you for suggesting a team.
##Vote Palmar: Nay Find the difference... Can't? I'll spell it out for you. Post 1) BH say that its unlikely that I'm scum if Palmar is scum based on Palmars first team suggestion. Reason for that is, if Palmar is scum he would want to bring 2 town players with him. Post 2) BH suggests that Navillus is scum (or atleast scummy looking) based on Navillus lack of thread presence and due to him not suggesting a team in time. He also think that Palmar is looking scummy for choosing Navillus as a member of Palmars team. How could BH not find the same reasoning in Post 2) that he did in Post 1) ? Also why did he think this in between those two posts: Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't like Dirk since his interaction with you (palmar). I don't like Navillus, period. Currently acceptable third members for a team with VE or Sent: Chaos13, BH. MAYBE PRPL but I don't really like him atm. BH is scum. And by extention so is Chaos13.
Ah yes you're right, there's no reasonable explanation for me changing my mind over the course of the 10 days between those posts, which included dozens of pages, several team submissions and votecounts, etc. Clearly this is scum behavior not somebody changing his mind based on new evidence.
On March 03 2012 00:37 kitaman27 wrote:
I think its funny that blazing passed through the first successful team and everyone comes to the assumption that he is scum. If he submitted the team, why wouldn't he be added on as the fourth member? If I'm not able to be part of the team, then I think blazing makes the most sense.
You clearly haven't looked at it from another player's point of view. Take a moment and think, man ._.
If you're Navillus and you think that BH is scum, it wouldn't be inconsistent with your views for him, low on town credibility, to do the Resistance equivalent of bussing an ally-- suggesting a team that you know will pass. I consider this to be fairly unlikely given the possibility of a town win since all it takes is one good fourth member for a D2 and D3 victory, but it's not impossible. If you begin with the assumption "BH is scum" then nothing inconsistent has happened. In fact, you might even say that I was attempting to head off some sort of similar suggestion from prplhz or Palmar, attempting to take credit for a team that was inevitable anyways. People will bend the facts to fit their conclusions assuming one doesn't rule out the other.
Also I don't like the "with prplhz" team.
##vote: nay
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On March 02 2012 22:32 chaos13 wrote:
Huh. I sent my votes in this time, but they're not even in my PM outbox. Strange.
I would yayvote the same team again, even if Dirk is on it. It would make zero sense to nayvote a team that was just successful.
Goddamn dude are you even reading the thread, D2 team requires 4 people
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On March 03 2012 00:37 kitaman27 wrote:
Cool.
I'll nay a prpl team if he includes himself. We just passed through a team, why would we send one of the likely scum suspects when we have a chance at winning this? Just because it happens to be his turn for submission, doesn't mean that he we should settle for a less than ideal member. There is no longer a threat for a draw.
Obviously I would prefer myself to be the fourth member. I know palmar and prpl have been opposing me, but we don't need scum votes to pass it through. Just because they are outspoken against me, doesn't mean they've got the towns best interests in mind. I think there are enough players that we could pass this through.
I think its funny that blazing passed through the first successful team and everyone comes to the assumption that he is scum. If he submitted the team, why wouldn't he be added on as the fourth member? If I'm not able to be part of the team, then I think blazing makes the most sense.
I'd say it's more of a result of a mod pressure than people actually supporting BH. I don't think support for the guy is unanimous. It's more of, if we keep this stalemate going for political jockeying, the game just ends in a draw.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 00:37 kitaman27 wrote:
Cool.
I'll nay a prpl team if he includes himself. We just passed through a team, why would we send one of the likely scum suspects when we have a chance at winning this? Just because it happens to be his turn for submission, doesn't mean that he we should settle for a less than ideal member. There is no longer a threat for a draw.
Obviously I would prefer myself to be the fourth member. I know palmar and prpl have been opposing me, but we don't need scum votes to pass it through. Just because they are outspoken against me, doesn't mean they've got the towns best interests in mind. I think there are enough players that we could pass this through.
I think its funny that blazing passed through the first successful team and everyone comes to the assumption that he is scum. If he submitted the team, why wouldn't he be added on as the fourth member? If I'm not able to be part of the team, then I think blazing makes the most sense. I'd say it's more of a result of a mod pressure than people actually supporting BH. I don't think support for the guy is unanimous. It's more of, if we keep this stalemate going for political jockeying, the game just ends in a draw.
Yeah also this. A draw would be super lame, and this was a team that was mostly acceptable to mostly everyone. The only people who should be automatically on the D2 team should be the three who were on the team today. Although *I* personally am the best fourth member, that doesn't mean I should automatically be put on the team. We should debate and see what people suggest/vote and get more info.
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On March 03 2012 00:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 14:33 Navillus wrote:
So this should be sort of completely absolutely 100% obvious but same team, also I think this puts these 3 people almost completely in the clear as if there was a scum their options are 1. sabatoge now 2. sabatoge day 2 with same team which yields them exactly 0 benefit over sabatoging day 1 and gives us a free day or 3. wait til we get a bigger team day 3 (someone said this is happening, that is true correct?) in which case they've left themselves with 0 room for error which seems just stupid. Why would it yield them zero benefit? By your logic, if I was town and one scum was already on the team, and team was sabotaged, who do you think would be FoS'ed? (It's me.)
I was incorrect about how the teams worked, I had believed that the day2 team is also 3 people.
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Also ##Vote Prplhz: Yay I've been thinking about this a bit and actually agree with BH last page that it's unlikely that both Palmar and Prplhz are scum and think if one of them definitely is scum it's more likely Palmar. Now I'm just confused as to why BH nayed when he put forth that Prplhz could be town.
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On March 03 2012 03:29 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 23:43 Dirkzor wrote:On March 02 2012 12:23 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav. On February 21 2012 18:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry, can't deal with a Navillus team. He stopped by the thread a couple of times to ask questions and generally fail. The fact that he showed up after the deadline to offer a "team" and then immediately dipped up out is even more disconcerting, IMO. I really think you could have done better than Navillus. Much better.
I like Dirk. I'm not actually super pleased with you on the team either, especially if you think Navillus is somehow one of the three townest players in this game.
There are much better people you could have picked as man #3 for the team, like Kita or myself.
That being said, thank you for suggesting a team.
##Vote Palmar: Nay Find the difference... Can't? I'll spell it out for you. Post 1) BH say that its unlikely that I'm scum if Palmar is scum based on Palmars first team suggestion. Reason for that is, if Palmar is scum he would want to bring 2 town players with him. Post 2) BH suggests that Navillus is scum (or atleast scummy looking) based on Navillus lack of thread presence and due to him not suggesting a team in time. He also think that Palmar is looking scummy for choosing Navillus as a member of Palmars team. How could BH not find the same reasoning in Post 2) that he did in Post 1) ? Also why did he think this in between those two posts: On February 23 2012 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't like Dirk since his interaction with you (palmar). I don't like Navillus, period. Currently acceptable third members for a team with VE or Sent: Chaos13, BH. MAYBE PRPL but I don't really like him atm. BH is scum. And by extention so is Chaos13. Ah yes you're right, there's no reasonable explanation for me changing my mind over the course of the 10 days between those posts, which included dozens of pages, several team submissions and votecounts, etc. Clearly this is scum behavior not somebody changing his mind based on new evidence.
I wasn't the fact that you changed your mind. It is the fact that you used 1 reasoning later on (which helped your agenda) which you clearly couldn't see early on even though palmar and I pointed it out for you...
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I've been pushing VisceraEyes, Dirkzor, Navilus for a week.
Why the hate? 
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On March 03 2012 05:07 Navillus wrote:
Also ##Vote Prplhz: Yay I've been thinking about this a bit and actually agree with BH last page that it's unlikely that both Palmar and Prplhz are scum and think if one of them definitely is scum it's more likely Palmar. Now I'm just confused as to why BH nayed when he put forth that Prplhz could be town.
"prplhz is possibly town" is very different than "man this guy is the best fourth man"
He could be town, but I don't think he's the towniest player remaining. Of the 6 players who didn't go, 3 are scum and 3 are town (barring some weird "scum holding fire" deal).
Here's what me and the other two town players are thinking right now: "I know I'm town, which means of the 5 players who aren't me and haven't gone, 3 are scum and two are town. Unless I have a great read on someone being town, I should really try to send myself."
Here's what the three scum players are thinking: "I want to be the fourth man"
On March 03 2012 05:07 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:29 Blazinghand wrote:On March 02 2012 23:43 Dirkzor wrote:On March 02 2012 12:23 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav. On February 21 2012 18:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry, can't deal with a Navillus team. He stopped by the thread a couple of times to ask questions and generally fail. The fact that he showed up after the deadline to offer a "team" and then immediately dipped up out is even more disconcerting, IMO. I really think you could have done better than Navillus. Much better.
I like Dirk. I'm not actually super pleased with you on the team either, especially if you think Navillus is somehow one of the three townest players in this game.
There are much better people you could have picked as man #3 for the team, like Kita or myself.
That being said, thank you for suggesting a team.
##Vote Palmar: Nay Find the difference... Can't? I'll spell it out for you. Post 1) BH say that its unlikely that I'm scum if Palmar is scum based on Palmars first team suggestion. Reason for that is, if Palmar is scum he would want to bring 2 town players with him. Post 2) BH suggests that Navillus is scum (or atleast scummy looking) based on Navillus lack of thread presence and due to him not suggesting a team in time. He also think that Palmar is looking scummy for choosing Navillus as a member of Palmars team. How could BH not find the same reasoning in Post 2) that he did in Post 1) ? Also why did he think this in between those two posts: On February 23 2012 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't like Dirk since his interaction with you (palmar). I don't like Navillus, period. Currently acceptable third members for a team with VE or Sent: Chaos13, BH. MAYBE PRPL but I don't really like him atm. BH is scum. And by extention so is Chaos13. Ah yes you're right, there's no reasonable explanation for me changing my mind over the course of the 10 days between those posts, which included dozens of pages, several team submissions and votecounts, etc. Clearly this is scum behavior not somebody changing his mind based on new evidence. I wasn't the fact that you changed your mind. It is the fact that you used 1 reasoning later on (which helped your agenda) which you clearly couldn't see early on even though palmar and I pointed it out for you...
My god you're so dense. Let me lay it out for you:
1) I didn't like Nav on Palm's team. I thought he was scum when palm suggested.
2) Palm and I argued, and I got the idea that instead, it's possible that Palm was scum and Nav was a fall guy. This seemed pretty reasonable.
3) That being said, Nav was not one of my three most town players. Before I did my votecount analysis, I was thinking "VE Sent BH". I didn't like that Dirk and Nav were sitting on Palmar's dick, and didn't really know what to make of that, so I went with my 2 strongest reads
4) I realize Sent is scum, and am thinking that BH VE Dirk would probably be beast, dick-sitting aside
5) I am not a viable team candidate but Nav is probably clean, since I'm very sure palm is scum by this point, so I suggest my team.
Did you actually read my entire filter or just quote random shit or what
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prplhz when you get a chance could you explain your town-read of Palmar in detail?
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EPT
