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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
VE, it's perhaps reasonable to say "I don't feel like BH is posting the same amount of words that he was posting in Resistance I" about how I'm playing right now. In fact, that's actually true. I think that I've been enormously more helpful in this game than in Resistance I, though, if we take a look at not "how much has BH written" but rather "how much helpful discussion has BH generated and how much info has he created for town?" I think I have been very helpful, in part because of the much better town atmosphere this game.
Remember, we're still on Day 1 here. This is a bigger, more full, more evidence-rich Day 1 than we had in the other game. What distinguishes this from Resistance 1 is that town actually knows what's up now-- we're not just gonna yayvote in the first team that comes rolling down the block. Remember how "town" the Rad/Palm/BH team seemed on D1 in Res 1? Imagine if instead we had gone through a bunch of team suggestions and voting rounds like we did now! currently, it seems like we're far into the game, but really, this is D1. No teams have passed, but even just a cursory glance at my analysis at the top of the page should show that we're way beyond where we were in D1 in Resistance 1, or even D2 or D3. I think I've done more on this Day 1 than I did last Day 1, in which I mostly talked about setup and irrelevant potshots at Rad.
We've created a voting history. A lot of it still doesn't make sense since we haven't passed a team yet, but we're creating a record. Imagine what things will look like on later days when we have even more information, plus passed succeeded/failed teams. I think overall people are getting too discouraged about this "no teams have passed yet" thing when really this is an indication of good, skeptical town play. The fact that we're doing this means that we're forcing scum to put out more and more information, or to bluff more and more. I couldn't have made an analysis like this a couple voting rounds ago, which is why I didn't. And now that there's a body of evidence, I'm able to do so.
Obviously this is just one man's point of view, but all the info I've used is available to you, too. See if I missed something! The Team Thread has all the votecounts and team suggestions, and it's super easy to read. most people in this game have relatively short filters. Voting histories are transparent. Take a look at people setting themselves up for busses, bluffs, and who they're willing to send (as I have done with Sent).
Don't get stir-crazy because we're 5 leaders in and haven't passed a team yet, guys-- this is how it SHOULD be. We may not be able to do the same stuff to find scum that we're able to in regular mafia, but by doing this we put scum under an enormous amount of pressure.
Don't be afraid to Nay-vote a team if you think it's not a good team. Right now, even if things seem slow, we're winning.
We've got this.
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On February 27 2012 14:51 prplhz wrote:
I liked chaos13's analysis and I think that Navilus is just a townie who is quite busy these days. He's been pretty transparent and he's voted right all times. I absolutely don't see him pushing any agenda in this game that isn't townie.
You need to nay this and then find a team with you, and two of Dirkzor/Navilus/Palmar/prplhz that you trust the most and then we're going to vote that through and win this game. [UoN]Sentinel, Blazinghand, kitaman27 all look bad ([UoN]Sentinel hasn't made one single townie post in this game and Blazinghand is grasping terrible arguments out of the thin air seemingly to fit some weird agenda) and chaos13 I'm a bit flaky about so ultimately I trust you more.
I have to say, this is exactly the conclusion I reached.
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On February 27 2012 14:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar, I'm having doubts about BH. Would you look at Resistance 1 and see if you think we're playing with a BH of the same (town) alignment? I have my doubts, but it's based solely on the amount he posted in the last game. Because I already know you don't think so, if you say he's not I'll need you to tell me why - if you don't want to do it then don't bother.
the amount is almost completely irrelevant. What struck me initially as scummy is that he was very inconsistent in his accusations against me. The interaction that basically sealed the deal for me, until my pending complete re-reading, was this one.
Palmar: Let's go with Dirk/nav/Palmar
BH: That's a bad team, town palmar wouldn't pick that team
Palmar: it's illogical to think that if I'm scum I picked a teammate on the team, as that's strictly bad scumplay, so you think I'm scum? If that's the case, I'll take your strongest townread (VE) and swap him out for whoever on the team you think is scum. That should be good for you?
BH: NO!
To me, it never seemed to me he was actively scumhunting in this team I proposed, he was simply opposing it going in any way possible. Since then I've even offered to swap out more people from the team, but we've hit the same wall.
So yeah, it's not based on amount, but the intentions.
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He also said "Town Palmar wouldn't take all the reponsibility for a team." while saying "He is scum because he is setting Navilus up to take all responsibility for this team.". I don't agree with either of those statements, but what's important is how self contradictory they are and how little he cared about that. He seemed panicky even though it didn't look like he had a clear scum read on any of the team members, instead just attacking with everything he could make up and then settling on actually believing in something later.
I'd talk some more about kitaman27 but I don't really want to talk spy strategy. He's been a lot more refined in his play than Blazinghand though, if that wasn't obvious.
His new analysis is quite bad, voting patterns are cool but he is ignoring large parts of the game. Palmar pointed out that he wanted to send VisceraEyes, Dirkzor, Navilus but Blazinghand didn't want to do that back then, and even though he actually proposed that team himself right here, it still doesn't seem like he wants to go through with it. I also proposed it later and Palmar agreed to it then too. The analysis is also totally devoid of what's actually the backbone of all analysis, looking at what people are writing. He only comments on the stuff anybody's said one time and that's a [UoN]Sentinel quote. That guy does not have a single townie post so it's not really a great find.
Notice how the more townie people are steadily nudging themselves towards figuring stuff out while Blazinghand is all piss and vinegar without actually caring about listening to anything other people have to say. Even though he's been all "come at me, bro", he's just straight up ignoring people now.
His "We've got this." sounds so ridiculous.
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prplhz's latest post to me is either the best scum play he has ever mustered, or it's a confirmation he's town. I'm leaning towards the latter.
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okay... I give up trying to think more about this. Lets send a team so we can get some real info.
I'll support any team with any Dirk/Prplhz/Palmar/Nav/VE. Pick three.
##Vote nay
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Don't give up thinking.
Okay, I'm going to nay-vote. Palmar if you're scum this game, I'm going to be simultaneously impressed and depressed.
##Vote: Nay
With the voting history we have here, even if the mission fails today we've got a good shot at a scum-free N2 I think.
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I was on the fence, but honestly I think we will be able to get through with 3 of the people that Dirk is mentioning and I don't know why we would settle for less, there really is no harm to town. I would particularly like me/Dirk/someone, 1. VE 2. Palmar 3. Prplhz. I just don't have a good town read on BH and I'd like Dirk before VE. Also we have VE next which I'm just much more comfortable with. Thus ##Vote chaos13: Nay
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
One game caught up on. I'll abuse the 48 hour deadlines and read through this one later tonight,
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On February 26 2012 17:37 prplhz wrote:
@kita
What makes you so sure that Palmar is scum?
Mainly his attitude. Anyone that disagrees with him is automatically scum in his eyes. He is discrediting anyone that goes against his plan by insulting their intelligence.
Take a look at his response to blazing large post:
On February 26 2012 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Also, I sincerely hope you're not town, because that would make you one of the worst players I've ever seen on TL.
Now this is in response to what I see as possibly the most constructive post of the game, going into the vote analysis. He simply discredits it and calls him bad. That's not a town response. That's a scum response attempting to maintain control over the thread. In fact, you had a very similar response to the analysis.
On February 26 2012 18:08 Blazinghand wrote:
Now if we look at our existing "factions" (though even within the factions there is doubt amongst the members of each other's alignments:
BH, Sent, VE
Palm, Nav, Prpl, Dirk
Kita
Chaos
I'm in a league of my own.
On February 28 2012 01:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Don't give up thinking.
Okay, I'm going to nay-vote. Palmar if you're scum this game, I'm going to be simultaneously impressed and depressed.
##Vote: Nay
With the voting history we have here, even if the mission fails today we've got a good shot at a scum-free N2 I think.
This is really interesting from VE. I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up.
You yay vote a team composed of Dirkzor, Blazinghand, VisceraEyes, yet nay vote a team of VisceraEyes, Navillus, Blazinghand.
So is it safe to assume you think nav is scum? He is the only difference afterall. Yet you don't mention nav in your post. What gives?
In fact, I'd like to hear who you are leaning towards as scum. Is it just prpl right now? What would you be submitting as a team if this fails?
On February 27 2012 22:23 prplhz wrote:
I'd talk some more about kitaman27 but I don't really want to talk spy strategy.
lol what does this even mean? You think I'm scum, but you won't talk about it because discussing my actions this game would somehow further the town agenda?
I'll make my decision about this team after hearing back from VE.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On a side note, I've been only able to get a couple hours of sleep the last few days due to school work so I take decided to take nap yesterday and I started having a lucid dream about this game. blubbdavid had apparently joined the game, except he wasn't part of the playerlist and he was the fourth scum member whose goal was to reject any team the was submitted.
In case you were wondering, yes I am starting to go crazy.
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On February 28 2012 15:09 kitaman27 wrote:
On a side note, I've been only able to get a couple hours of sleep the last few days due to school work so I take decided to take nap yesterday and I started having a lucid dream about this game. blubbdavid had apparently joined the game, except he wasn't part of the playerlist and he was the fourth scum member whose goal was to reject any team the was submitted.
In case you were wondering, yes I am starting to go crazy.
rofl
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@kita
I don't think you did anything overly scummy, I don't like your reads and your general behavior fits better than anybody else with a [UoN]Sentinel/Blazinghand spy team combo. This is kinda what I'd expect from you.
I don't see how Palmar calling anybody stupid sounds like he's mafia. Probably not a player in this game besides you that he didn't call stupid (he called you stupid this game too but you're scum so that doesn't count). You say he's just "discrediting" the analysis and calling Blazinghand "stupid" but that's not true. He tried to engage in a discussion with Blazinghand about the analysis but Blazinghand is pretty much just ignoring him.
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On February 28 2012 14:29 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 17:37 prplhz wrote:
@kita
What makes you so sure that Palmar is scum? Mainly his attitude. Anyone that disagrees with him is automatically scum in his eyes. He is discrediting anyone that goes against his plan by insulting their intelligence. Take a look at his response to blazing large post: Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Also, I sincerely hope you're not town, because that would make you one of the worst players I've ever seen on TL. Now this is in response to what I see as possibly the most constructive post of the game, going into the vote analysis. He simply discredits it and calls him bad. That's not a town response. That's a scum response attempting to maintain control over the thread. In fact, you had a very similar response to the analysis.
Ok nice. kitaman27 just confirmed himself scum. I don't think I can allow him to hide behind "well maybe he's that dumb" anymore.
It's not scummy to think I'm scum or disagree with me. However, the reasons for why kita does it are beyond bad. Like it's the cornerstone of my play in mafia to call everyone who doesn't agree with me scum or dumb. It's what I do all the fucking time, and kitaman knows it, and he knows what he's saying makes me scum, bears in reality no indication to my alignment. The correct reason to think I'm scum is if he genuinely disagreed with my reads and made logical points to back up that position, but obviously it's hard being logical when you're scum.
You're not this dumb kita, you don't think that argument for me being scum is legit. It's unthinkable you actually believe this bullshit, so by extension you must be scum.
I will now not agree to any team including kitaman27
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I re-read the entire thing about Blazinghand's reactions, especially to my first suggestion, last night. I've never seen him play scum so I cannot be certain that his scum play is actually decent, because at least he hasn't sunk to lurk-till-death levels of scum play.
Problem is that I have seen him play town multiple times, and I just can't get myself to believe he'd be so brazen about his refusal towards my proposal. I had hoped that he would show me at least the respect of considering my team, or at least requesting explanations and weighing my arguments, but he immediately nayvoted it and said "thanks for proposing a team, let's move on", which makes no sense. He only started arguing as to why my team shouldn't go once it became clear that I wasn't going to let it go easily.
From someone who played with me in his first game ever, where I just pointed out the scumteam on the first day, it makes very little sense that he would not even consider my opinions.
I think he must be scum because of this, so I will not agree to any team including Blazinghand.
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Okay. I'm unbanned, and I'll vote in a sec.
Nay, because BH is on the team.
Now the awesome thing about being banned is that you can read this thread with no obligation to post, and that really relaxes a person enough to see new things. Like BH's bullshit analyses. That last one, bolding phrases to make it look important but really it's ten kilos of grade-A fluff.
Next up,
On February 26 2012 18:08 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm positing that Sentinel is the third scum player. His level of activity and analysis has been acceptable at times, but I'm not sure he's really taken a hard look at the situation and offered good analysis. I think in part I was blinded by his buddying of me,
You're more guilty of me than this bro.
and didn't take a close enough look. I think he was bluffing on the Dirk/BH/VE team, due to the anti-kita sentiment that infested the game at that moment, and he voted knowing that. A BH team wasn't going to pass with the Palmar group voting against me, and so he could safely vote Yay. And look at how he words it!
The Sentinel team almost passed, 4-5. Given that Dirk is more towny than me at this stage in the game, I'd venture a guess to say 5-4 wouldn't have been too bad of a prediction. So I voted yay on the team in the hopes that we could get this game moving.
Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 03:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I'm going to yay and see what happens.
In the meantime, prplhz posted more shit math. If a team succeeds, that gives nothing about the number of scumplayers on the team because scum can elect not to sabotage.
In addition, if there ARE scum on the team, 2/2 can be scum as pointed out just above me.
TL;DR - don't trust someone just because they were on a successful team. What is he saying here? Sentinel is voting yay, then setting himself up to make cases on the team members if it succeeds. This is a tell for his bluff. It fits with his posting patterns, and it's a shit reason for a vote. That and look at him bus prplhz. Look at him bus!
This argument is the epitome of bullshit.
You took me pointing out hypothetical scumteams to poke holes in prplhz's argument as actually saying the team succeeds? That's like me saying "If my neighbor gets shot, I'll call the cops!" and reasoning that I shot my neighbor. Your argument has nothing to do with my post, and I've been against prplhz for longer.
So as you can see, Sentinel is worried that somehow his bluff will go awry and the team will pass, and there will be no sabotages. He soft attacks people from a hypothetical successful team that he's only worried about because a town team has finally been suggested.
Chaos13, think about what's been said here. Take a look at the idea of a Palm Prpl Sent team, and you'll see it makes sense.
No.
I think a reasonable team for today would be something like your option two: Nav, VE, Blazinghand. Given what I've seen, and that incredibly scummy bluff yay vote from Sentinel, I would like to see you propose this team. I would yay vote it.
You and you alone?
And so should you, town. Dirk, Nav, think about what I've written here. It makes sense. It adds up. It's what scum would do, and it explains the voting patterns.
VE remains my strongest town read. Chaos really should rethink his scumread on Dirk, but I'm fine with Nav in his place.
Nav VE Blazinghand for D1 team!
Nayvoting time.
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Edit by way of post -
On February 28 2012 14:29 kitaman27 wrote:Take a look at his response to blazing large post: Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Also, I sincerely hope you're not town, because that would make you one of the worst players I've ever seen on TL. Now this is in response to what I see as possibly the most constructive post of the game, going into the vote analysis. He simply discredits it and calls him bad. That's not a town response. That's a scum response attempting to maintain control over the thread. In fact, you had a very similar response to the analysis.
Dear Lord... I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Palmar.
Backing up bullshit posts with bullshit defense.
My scum team would be Kita/BH/Prplhz
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@[UoN]Sentinel
Why exactly am I scum?
If you think that Blazinghand is scum then why did you yayvote both of the teams he was on?
What team would you send right now?
If you don't think that Dirkzor/Navilus/Palmar are scum then why did you nayvote that team?
Are you prepared to yay a Dirkzor/Navilus/Palmar team?
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On February 29 2012 00:52 prplhz wrote:
@[UoN]Sentinel
Why exactly am I scum?
If you think that Blazinghand is scum then why did you yayvote both of the teams he was on
Lol what-- read his post dude. He didnt think i was scum until just now
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On February 28 2012 19:15 Palmar wrote:
I will now not agree to any team including kitaman27
Haha because this wasn't the case before right? Now you're just looking for some kind of excuse , rather than calling me dumb the entire game. You've clearly decided from day one who you would be willing to vote for and who you wouldn't.
As for your comments, sure you've called someone like VE stupid a bunch of times, but you've never attacked me directly in the 15 or so games we've played together. I know I've been playing with the towns interests in mind so the only logical conclusion is that you're scum.
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EPT
