Hammer Mini Mafia

On January 19 2012 07:15 LSB wrote:
Wait... why don't people want to play PM games? They are so fun!

On January 27 2012 01:06 Palmar wrote:
I have no issues with a planned vote-trading system, I'm just not going to follow it.

On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around

On January 27 2012 05:49 VisceraEyes wrote:


Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design.

I kid, I kid.

Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now?

On January 26 2012 18:45 wherebugsgo wrote:
The only way I'm going to die this game is if I get shot by scum.

On January 27 2012 09:36 wherebugsgo wrote:

As I said earlier, remember how people thought BM looked town in mafia L?

On January 28 2012 04:24 Paperscraps wrote:
If I am understanding correctly from the anti-circle circle trade people, messing up on N1 is acceptable. Town needs to take risks to get an advantage. We should give our votes to who we think is pro-town and then justify ourselves D2. I agree that people's justifications will be useful, but at what cost?

By your guys logic, players such as Node, Jackal58 and jaybrundage shouldn't get any votes due to them being less active than others, which implies less town.

Here is where I get caught up. Who has to the most to gain from being active and pro-town? Mafia does. I am not saying that the lurkers can't be mafia, but it is unlikely. Mafia want to get voting majority in whatever way possible they can right?

Between the active players we are split on what to do N1, which is far worse than going with one plan or another. Solidarity goes a long way in mafia.

Also what is the point of the free trade plan + justifications if we are just going to make people balance the votes back out the next night to those with 1 vote. The people with 1 vote should be weaker townies and mafia. What is the point of not trading to them N1 if we are just going to give them votes back N2.

---

Now onto the business.



"I just chose at random" This justification completely negates what your plan is trying to do, which is to get scumtells from peoples justification on their trades. Another contradiction

By your logic and probability, townies should trade their votes at random N1, ~70% chance to trade to another townie. So, which one is it Palmar? Free trade + justifications or randomized trading.



This is so anti-town. Solidarity is crucial, not dissidence. You are forcing the town to do one of two things, follow you or lynch you. Seems like a scummy power play to me.

##Vote: Palmar

On January 28 2012 20:39 Dirkzor wrote:
We're still discussing plans and we are 13h from lynch...

Since we haven't agreed by now I think we should agree to disagree. Would be better to continue plans during nightphase.

##Vote Prplhz



Free trade or circle trading. Giving as few votes as possible seems to be best. That way least amount of town votes can potentielly end up at scum. Why would I, when I know my own allignment, give votes to a potential scum? I won't! This statement is weird and I find it scummy.

If you read this post (clicky) it just seems to come from scum perspective.



The italic part is also written from a scum perspective. The whole process of saying how the roles affect scum seems to be from someone who is on the recieving end of the power roles. While everyone could think this, I don't think a town person would write it and certainly not in this way.

The rest of the post is basicly fluff and nothing.

After this he tell us to not lynch risk. Vote WBG and then go on the longest shoppingtrip ever.

He is scum!

On January 29 2012 01:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I didn't actually look up Palmar, I was going off of what others were saying about these two. And since people were talking about Palmar being like this all the time in this thread, he went off my radar.

At the time of voting I didn't actually read ANYONE's past history. Bad error on my part, but I don't get how this correlates to me being mafia.

The reason I unvoted was because I thought risk.nuke was throwing up arguments to try and get around answering the question of mafia collecting all the votes and not giving them back. His logic seemed circuitous to me at the time, and I thought he was just pissing people off as a scum player, not as risk.nuke.

And everyone keeps bring up that post - you realize that plan was BEFORE everyone started offering up logic to perfect the circlejerk and then abolish it altogether?

On January 29 2012 02:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Do you think risk would only piss people off as town?
Could you explain this question?

On January 29 2012 07:02 prplhz wrote:
Hey Jackal58 could you comment on wherebugsgo and VisceraEyes or is [UoN]Sentinel more likely to be scum? What makes him more likely to be scum?

On January 29 2012 20:41 Palmar wrote:
Do you not have time to play this game jackal or do you just not care about it?

On January 29 2012 07:10 Jackal58 wrote:
My wife and I are going out shortly and I will be gone til after the flip. My vote is going on wbg. It's purely meta.

On January 30 2012 00:09 layabout wrote:

whilst i could argue about the first point that would not be helpful.
the fearmongering aspect is also debatable, for instance+ Show Spoiler + that could equally be labelled fearmongering, you used likely harmful consequences to persuade people of a point. WBG did the same thing.

He disappeared and nobody spoke out against his defence. Couldn't you say that this make it seem like he was a townie? It was not like we had caught him out and he was obvious scum that we lynched. There was limited discussion and it ended with him being lynched.
If you think that he was scum then it seems reasonable to assume that his teammates did not bus him (because that would have been stupid). Are you going to proceed under the assumption that there are 3 scum left or 4? Are you going to be open to both possibilities?

Do you think that the benefits of everyone trading 2 votes make it worth doing?
(please consider the lsb plan not just trading 2 votes in general) plan can be found : here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13291863 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13298111

On January 30 2012 10:58 risk.nuke wrote:
Right now I am the most interested in who sent chaoser a vote.
Also layabout and prplhz massive vote surges. I want to hear additional reasoning behind these.

To be honest I expected me and palmar to recive alot of votes. We recived 3 combined.

On January 31 2012 05:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm a veteran. There was no save, I just absorbed a hit. Stop voting for me and vote for Palmar. He's manipulating you guys by bullying you into voting for me.

On January 31 2012 05:37 layabout wrote:
Wven if you are sure who we should lynch stop voting now!. If there is a lynch now then tomorrow is completely wasted.

On January 31 2012 07:57 Palmar wrote:


No I mean, I'm basically confirmed town.

I am willing to reconsider, and giving your votes away to someone who looks town with good reasoning will help your cause.

On January 31 2012 23:07 prplhz wrote:
It's just that this is a no-flip closed setup, it's crazy to think of a plan and even considering to enforce it, and there could be scum trade-riggers and cowboys and nothing is gained from blindly policy lynching people who wouldn't follow the plan. Making huge plans that prevents content generation seems ludicrous to me in a no-flip setup where analysis is all that we have. I have no idea why Jackal58 thinks you're town based solely on your being against a plan, when the plan was crazy from the beginning and this worries me along with the weird VP he received from Dirkzor. I haven't read Dirkzor very heavily though.

On February 01 2012 08:27 layabout wrote:
Every player is potential scum.

Not providing reasoning, not establishing your innocence, deliberately misleading or misinterpreting to kill other players is not pro-town and it's what you have all been doing.

On February 01 2012 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Optimistically thinking, the four would be LSB, bugs, Viscera and layabout.

Also, I find it amusing that out of our four top suspects, one of them tried to lynch me and two more got on the bandwagon.

On February 02 2012 04:30 Paperscraps wrote:


Good call Jackal. Mafia self-targets layabout, then scum driver switches Palmar and layabout. Thus medic is really on layabout, not Palmar. Even if medic did WIFOM, it wouldn't have mattered.

On February 02 2012 05:02 prplhz wrote:
Jackal58 that makes no sense. Tons of other people gave Palmar votes, you included, and they didn't end up with chaoser.

On February 02 2012 06:17 Paperscraps wrote:


Speculation: Chaoser's vote didn't go through to Palmar, thus we could assume his night action might have been late as well. If he is scum driver, then this would account for no one being bussed.

Kind of a long shot I know.

There probably is a lot more reasons mafia had to not bus N1. I don't think it is too big a deal though.

On February 02 2012 07:18 jaybrundage wrote:
Could we make the night end this in a couple of hours instead of another 24 hours?

On February 02 2012 12:49 prplhz wrote:

Not a fan.

On February 03 2012 10:03 risk.nuke wrote:
Cool. This means there is till 1 scum remaining?

On February 03 2012 10:29 risk.nuke wrote:
Jackal forella. Role and what nightactions you have performed?

On February 03 2012 12:19 prplhz wrote:
Dunno, something is rubbing me the wrong way about Jackal58 being medic I had a feeling that Paperscraps was the medic/jailer who protected Palmar and two medics in a setup with only 1 scum hit seems like a bit too much.

Do medics get confirmation about their saves if they save someone who is getting shot?

@Jackal58 Did you protect Palmar night1 AND night2 and Node night3 or Palmar night1 and Node night2 AND night3? Did you receive any confirmation about any saves?

On February 03 2012 17:33 Dirkzor wrote:
I shot chaoser.

I also think we should lynch jackal.

Reason is that I strongly believe that paperscraps is/was the medic. The roleblocker is a scum role who targeted paperscraps and killed palmar.



Tro googling steganography. I don't have time to look thorugh paperscraps posts right now for breadcrumbs but it must be there. Scum can have picked that up and hence been 100% sure that they could kill palmar 2nd time around.

Was anyone roleblocked? The roleblocker might be dead (layabout - i find it unlikely) or they targeted paper so he couldn't selftarget.

##Vote Jackal58

On February 03 2012 21:42 prplhz wrote:


But you are blatantly avoiding answering one of my questions, specifically "Did you receive any confirmation"? I've been through Paperscraps filter but I can't find any breadcrumbs about his role, it'll clearly tell us something about Paperscraps' role which will be useful.

On February 03 2012 19:47 Jackal58 wrote:

Palmar night 1 and 2. That's why I figured they had a bus driver. Cause Palmar died. And I wasn't role blocked. That's also why I was positive Palmar was town.

On February 04 2012 01:44 risk.nuke wrote:
Jackal! there better another scum or you have some way of winning cause if you just delayed this game to mess with us that's bm and I'm going to be seriously pissed at you.

On February 04 2012 22:20 prplhz wrote:
Really ballsy and awesome shots by Node and Dirkzor. Shooting the only scum with any real town influence, really nice.

Haha those breadcrumbs Paperscraps. I doubt anyone found those

The only grave VisceraEyes digged was his own? AMIRITE???+ Show Spoiler +

Anyway, VisceraEyes throwing himself under a bus like that was a pretty bad move. He not only incriminated himself but also LSB. I don't know what you guys were thinking.

I don't think scum played bad, but town had some crazy awesome powerplay and VisceraEyes gave himself up as did Jackal58. I can see where Jackal58 was coming from with his claim but I think he should just have relaxed and hoped town would have lynched somebody else.

On February 05 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote:
I actually thought it was pretty obvious that I was the medic since I was going around calling Palmar confirmed town and I gave him 5 votes. Paperscraps didn't give Palmar a single vote at any point even though he would know that Palmar is town and Palmar is pretty good at this game and wouldn't do anything silly with his vote.

On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch.

On February 05 2012 12:17 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:


How could you do it repeatedly? Your ability was one-shot, or so you said in the quicktopic.