Purgatory Mafia

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

December 28 2011 09:45 GMT

#12

Just in case:
##Signup

redff: demons can hide one lynch flip, angels have one NK role that does the same and town has only 4 power roles

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

December 29 2011 12:23 GMT

#29

I'm fine with the game starting next week

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 11:07 GMT

#157

Due to the fact the players who are sent to purgatory is publicly announced and the fact the same angel role(s) perform night kills every night, it appears optimal to use the power with a focus on the role blocking aspect of it. On night 1 however the channeler and the demonic courier (yes, this is in your best interest) should target players who are highly likely to be killed without protection if they are town/demon. Even if they appear scummy, role blocking at least two out of the three angel roles is beneficial and even if the target is a demon, it's possible that they chose him to perform corruption (this is unlikely however on n1 due to obvious reasons). You can stray from this plan if there is a highly suspicious player as just the fact that this is the starting point should deter angels from hitting with impunity.

We can re-evaluate when it's best for corrupted players to claim when that becomes relevant, but currently I think claiming after getting to use your "sense dark" once seems like a good starting point.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 12:01 GMT

#159

It is also misleading to say that demons have no KP. Both KP and the corruption ability have the same main function; to bring non-town aligned teams closer to controlling the majority of votes. Otherwise they are quite different, but if no demons/corrupted townies are killed by day 4, they'll likely control 5 votes which could very well be more than the number town controls.

Also due to voting being done via PM, pay close attention to the vote count here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12918700

The game utilizes instant majority lynch, meaning that the day ends as soon as majority is reached. Starting from day 2 demons can immediately hammer at -1 without giving away anyone on their team other than possibly the corrupted player, so do not vote without first looking at the vote counts. Even if we are likely to lynch someone, we shouldn't end days early.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 12:07 GMT

#160

We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 14:39 GMT

#169

On January 04 2012 23:24 xsksc wrote:
Hi guys.

First multi-factional game for me as well, not really sure how we should proceed strategy-wise. Lynching an angel day 1 would obviously be ideal, although getting a demon is definitely better than a townie.

Show nested quote +

Yeah, and then he went on to be one of the only useful townies that actually read the game and used his brain.

Show nested quote +

Syllo, if Palmar does decide to mess around on day one again, would it not be better to wait and see how he behaves later on (like in TLXVIII), rather than just lynching him?

I would be completely fine with him "messing around" as long as he in the process allows me to determine his alignment with some accuracy (as in XLVIII). However I think the route he is taking here is apathy/low activity, which is more in line with him being scum. I'm obviously not going to lynch him purely based on that random comment and he has over two days to come up with something worthwhile.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 14:45 GMT

#171

On January 04 2012 23:27 Tyrran wrote:
Okay, first of all, as many people already have stated, the angel of Death should be our first target. Not only does he hold the angel KP, but the main issue for me is that The roles and alignement of his victim is NOT revealed. This does not seem to be the case if the other Angels use the slay ability.

Zona, can you confirm that the role and alignement of a player killed using the slay ability, by the Angel acolyte and/or the Angelic observer are revealed?

Not knowing the alignement/role of a killed player is devastating for town. Is the demon hunter still alive? Is the seer? is the sage? how many demons remains ? Setting up a stratey with limited information on the blue roles still alive will be pretty hard.

The Demons can also conceal a lynch, but they can only do it once a game, so it have a smaller impact.

Show nested quote +

Actually, we can use the banish ability offensively to determine the role of scummy player. If the slay ability is not used one nigth, then the banished (or the transported) player are very likely to be the angel holding the power of the death ray, and they should be priority target for investingation/future banishement. Therefore we can banish one of the player we think is an angel and see if the slay ability is used that nigth.

Note that if no corruption happens on even numbered nigths , its harder to conclude because Demons could have tried to corrupt an angel or the sage.

There is no reason for us not to combine the benefits of both by protecting one of the likely night kill targets and at the same time almost certainly rule them out as the angel of death, especially on day 1. Did you even read what I said? Even if one or more of such players make themselves look towny before day 2, having a plan like this in place forces angels to consider their shots more carefully.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 19:15 GMT

#194

Grackaroni: Stop trashing new players. I don't even know what you are talking about as the previous game (Student mafia) was his first game, he subbed in and was SCUM and he still has over two days to contribute. We aren't going to be lynching or shooting anyone purely based on one game partial meta and the fact you presume that you won't be able to read him well. In fact based on posting so far I would be much more willing to lynch you Grackaroni just for suggesting something like this. Further, town being "pretty much unanimous" doesn't make the lynch correct; it can just as well mean town players are as bad as the player being lynched. If bluelightz doesn't contribute by the end of the day we can re-evaluate.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 19:27 GMT

#197

On January 05 2012 04:19 Blazinghand wrote:

Show nested quote +

I assume you mean an IRL day or something here right? We're not made out of time. Bluelightz had 3 hours, and he spent them making one-liners and posts that were literally meaningless. I consider this play to be anti-town. I don't care who does it-- you could have done it, and it would be anti-town. Then he bails. Given that he knew he had to bail in a few hours, he could have made a post with, well, content.

But he didn't.

No, I meant the first in-game day, that is to say up to 72 hours. Get used to certain players not immediately establishing their innocence, because that is going to be the norm. Whether bluelightz is going to be one of them remains to be seen, but there are "veterans" who to some extent do it every game. The fact that it's anti-town does not mean the optimal play is to lynch them every game for it. If you can pressure them to contribute, that's fine.

Also is Mr. Wiggles actually playing? I see he edited his only post to say "can't", but he is still on the player list.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 19:47 GMT

#207

This is a completely pointless discussion, but your case definitely isn't "solid as hell"; it's not even a case. You randomly chose one worthless poster so far while ignoring a myriad of other similar posters. A new player not immediately posting something worthwhile is pretty much a null tell especially when we've never seen him play town previously. Right now it's more fruitful to concentrate on people who we know something about and those who have posted a bit but only contributed superficially. Indeed, most players have only made random comments about game mechanics, which says very little to nothing at all about them.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 20:25 GMT

#226

Yes and then someone was genuinely busy, you lynched him and he predictably flipped town. There were some actually scummy candidates available but no one but palmar was paying attention to them. Players were contributing because they wanted to, not because they were afraid of some policy. If townies all contribute and manage to establish their innocence, of course lynching someone who is lurking is a trivial decision. I commit to "maybe" lynching a lurker as lurking is a generic scum tell and I usually go after someone I know should be being more useful but isn't. I will not commit, on day 1, to lynching a person who is just lurking and nothing else points towards them being scum. I will not lynch someone to gain benefits in some future game, which is essentially what policy lynching means.

Such a lynch is acceptable if I've no strong reads of course. Policy lynching is bad as it takes a long time to actually produce any results in the "metagame" and it's unlikely for the policy to have affect new players. If the game has mostly older players, we can lynch them based on them posting less than they should be based on what we know about their town play rather than attributing the lynch to some policy.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 04 2012 22:32 GMT

#245

Erandorr I'm going to lynch you again if you don't start posting. I know you have time

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 11:07 GMT

#276

On January 05 2012 19:02 Palmar wrote:
@Syllogism: You seem to be very much against lynching Bluelightz, do you want to explain to me why?

Because people were picking on him for hurrrr not being helpful as scum in Student mafia and then for not posting anything useful within the first three hours of the game, just like everyone else. If he doesn't start posting something useful he might be a decent lynch possibility, but not because he didn't do anything within the first 3 hours. However I still don't see how this is your town play so how about we still lynch you instead. Do you have an excuse for not doing anything yesterday? I've one excuse in mind but I would like to hear it from you.

Other than that, for instance lynching risk.nuke http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=76576 appears to make much more sense given that we know how he plays town and this clearly isn't it so far. Grackaroni is another given that his only contribution so far has been to randomly tunnel bluelightz for the aforementioned awful reasons.

The list of worthless people so far: RoL, risk.nuke, cwave, xsksc, Palmar, Jackal, Erandorr, bluelightz

Out of those Palmar is the one least likely to be this inactive as town.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 11:12 GMT

#278

Palmar: do you really believe that "cluttering up the thread" is an issue so far in this game? Do you think it is ever?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 11:29 GMT

#281

Uh, from my experience you are always active if not useful early on, but I could be mistaken. I assumed your lack of activity was due to not wanting to post here while pretending to be away in Resistance but apparently that's not it. You posted quite a bit after the game was over but kept ignoring this game. Anyway, I'm probably not pushing to lynch you today given how many useless people there are. Also reading steamship made me a bit more open to the idea that we can both be town due to the fact Zona quite clearly RNGs teams rather than just pretends to like other hosts.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 12:12 GMT

#285

While he hasn't posted anything particularly useful, he seems to at least paying attention to the game and thinking about the setup in a slightly towny manner. He also doesn't appear to be afraid of posting nonsensical things just for fun (i.e. the kite thing thing). I actually have a "slightly leaning town" read on him so far.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 12:43 GMT

#289

He is being relatively active so I'm not really interested in him today. His tone seems the same as his town play, but I'm not quite satisfied enough with the content of his posts to put a strong town lean on him, especially since I haven't seen his scum play yet. I don't feel like reading him closely today due to not considering him a smart lynch given the activity, but I did notice some things that hint of towny line of thought.

Also, If he somehow IS scum they could totally bail him out with some purgatorying from the demon hunter, but nothing stops the lynch.

The demon hunter is not only useful against demons. His attacks kill anything that isn't an angel....meaning if his target lives and wasn't sent to purgatory, he has successfully identified an angel. However, since he poses a significant threat to both angels and demons, I don't really see much of a reason for the demon hunter to ever claim, except perhaps to avoid a lynch if he fucks up and appears scummy. So please don't do that.

It's quite weak however

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 14:57 GMT

#299

It's a really stupid hypothetical as you don't actually have to shoot anyone and we do have to lynch someone. How about just saying who you would lynch and why, much better. Why would you lynch (shoot) Dirkzor, cwave?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 15:06 GMT

#304

On January 06 2012 00:00 Palmar wrote:
After Bluelight's latest list of only town/null reads and his wishy-washy-ness with accusing people I might actually just off him. I was kinda leaning maybe noob-town on him, but I don't like his last few posts.

Do you think he would have made that long list of reads as scum? While his observations may be wrong, making the list requires reading the thread relatively carefully. It's possible, but I interpreted that as a slightly leaning town move from. I don't really like his "If I was in that situation then no. Because I lack sufficient information to make a correct move" post though as that sounds like a bit forced.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 15:16 GMT

#306

I don't know, maybe I'm biased because my early reads are all "leaning town" or nothing at all and I'm very careful with my scum reads.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 15:18 GMT

#308

You are right, his reaction to the pressure has been weirdly calm.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 15:33 GMT

#315

Palmar: do you think wishy washyness is a good scum tell in a setup with two scum teams? Did you read his student mafia filter where he randomly calls people scum, as scum?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 16:56 GMT

#322

I would like to hear some thoughts on Grackaroni/tyrran/refallen, all of which I would be interested in lynching today.

All have been around, posted nothing useful and I've small issues with the way they've approached the game so far. Grackaroni for going after bluelightz in a very questionable manner, Refallen for being supposedly very excited about the game and then disappearing (I also don't particularly like this post overall) and Tyrran for not reading in his haste to attempt to seem like he is contributing. Tyrran you have shown that you can be useful, do you intend to post anything at all today?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 17:57 GMT

#333

Hi refallen when were you suspicious of palmar and why didn't you bother expressing your suspicion

Is this some kind of metagame thing again? Dosen't Palmar always troll around in day 1? I remember that in TLXLVIII.

Non committal

For now, I don't have a lynch target.

I want Palmar to start posting.

Non comittal

Right now at least my previous suspicion of Palmar has been assuaged at him posting and being his usual bullying town self.

Non committal

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 19:07 GMT

#351

Risk.nuke that looks like a post you have been preparing for a while and it's just a recap of things that have already been said. Where is the active and opinionated and aggressive risk.nuke of Election mafia who posted a lot and certainly didn't just repeat what others had said, right or wrong?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 19:29 GMT

#361

On January 06 2012 04:18 risk.nuke wrote:
syllo, I started the post about 2 hours ago. I share what I want to share when I want to share it. Don't try and control me and please don't try to meta me. All my games I have a different style because I play varying of my mood.

Even disregarding meta, you've been reading the thread for 24 hours and then come up with a carefully crafted post containing nothing original; it's literally just a recap of everything that has been said about these people. EVERYTHING. This is typical mafia behaviour because they've a harder time producing original content due to knowing that people are innocent. Your post does nothing to further town's goals and you don't commit to lynching any of them. Granted in a two scum team setup it's a bit easier but scum are still much more likely to play like that. The post also appears to lack the common anxious behaviour townies exhibit because they have to produce a good lynch out of nothing.

Further, I think the meta argument is quite strong, judging by your post history.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 19:56 GMT

#364

So in conclusion

##vote risk.nuke

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 20:08 GMT

#367

I think you are mafia. Me pushing you ruins nothing even if you are somehow town and your post was some sort of elaborate scheme, which is quite ridiculous given that you were just repeating what other people have said.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 21:12 GMT

#372

On January 06 2012 05:24 risk.nuke wrote:
I wasn't anxious because I didn't think you were seriously suspecting me.

Anxious about finding scum, a reference to your big post rather than your reaction to my accusation

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 05 2012 23:24 GMT

#382

Palmar can you help me understand why you don't care about this game at all, thanks

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 00:17 GMT

#394

Yes playing dota 2 all day is quite exhausting

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 10:37 GMT

#442

What do you think about risk.nuke

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 10:43 GMT

#444

Really? Filter him in election, then filter him here and look at his one big post and his first two replies to me

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 10:53 GMT

#447

Uh you could just read what I said about him earlier. Are you reading the thread? Were you really busy yesterday? Anyway, look how little he has posted and how different his play is so far from his election mafia's wacky aggressive style. His only case post is a compendium of things already said by others.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=76576

Does this response feel genuine to you? Could he possibly believe what he is saying

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13007613

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 10:55 GMT

#448

It's quite possible that wiggles is scum, but considering you don't particularly appear to care about the game, I'm hardly sold based on your "wiggles possibly can't be this bad!" case. Do you think I'm town? Why don't you care about who I think is scum?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 11:18 GMT

#452

Some of the things he says are definitely wrong, but issue with assuming that immediately makes him scum is that he has done that to me before when he was town and I was town (lotr). Also in a setup with two scum teams I'm not entirely convinced by the need for him as scum to force a case like that. Certainly getting rid of you, regardless of your alignment, would be beneficial for him if he is scum, but still I'm not convinced yet.

Also risk.nuke disappeared again after he stopped responding to me. Does he even strike you as the type of poster who spends two hours (on and off) on a single post that basically just repeats things others have said? I'm a bit troubled by the fact you don't appear to see how much his play differs from his play in election mafia. Who is more likely in your experience to say "don't try to meta me": scum or town?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 11:23 GMT

#453

On January 06 2012 20:11 Cwave wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why do you care what he thinks about your scumreads?
Since you haven't provided any or anything close to it, you make it hard for someone to care for something that isn't there (yet).
Just " Im gonna lynch Wiggles if he doesnt post more" and "Im gonna lynch Errandor if he doesnt post more".

However, I still do care about who you think is scum. Who do you think is scum?

Please read your filter, then read mine and come back to explain why you made that claim without first reading my filter and why you haven't done anything useful so far. Palmar is one of the people in this game I respect and know very well and him not paying close attention to my reads is suspicious, especially when I think he has to realize by now I'm very likely town (to him, not to people like you of course).

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 11:34 GMT

#455

I haven't said that I think you are town and thus having this discussion is helpful not only because I think risk.nuke should be lynched. What do you think about Erandorr? I know for a fact that he was playing dota 2 all day yesterday, even after he said he was too tired to post and wanted to sleep

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 13:22 GMT

#469

layabout: It doesn't take much effort or time to read a through few filters to get the general idea what someone's town play looks like. In fact, you are expected to do that in every game when pushing to lynch someone.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 13:32 GMT

#470

And just like with everything else, you trust people who you think have made themselves look towny and you consider good players. Quoting a person with one post to support your anti-meta stance doesn't make you look particularly good, though I don't otherwise have an issue with your play so far

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 13:50 GMT

#473

I'm more interested in you reading risk.nuke's previous games. I do not particularly care about palmar meta reads.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 13:53 GMT

#476

How would he know that you are not scum even if he is scum?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 15:51 GMT

#490

While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.

I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 18:05 GMT

#516

On January 07 2012 03:03 layabout wrote:
Erandorr:
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 05 2012 09:54 Erandorr wrote:

Show nested quote +

And the long lost brother part?

missed a lot of time, starts by joking around

On January 06 2012 09:16 Erandorr wrote:
Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow.

Promises content on the next day (which would be today)
just now posts

On January 07 2012 01:39 Erandorr wrote:

Show nested quote +

I actually didn't roll scum. I just missed the start and don't seem to find a way into the game. I already stated with my brilliant 1 liner that I sort of dislike a Wiggles lynch and actually would like to lynch Palmar today. I don't quite know what to do with all the other crap that has been posted, since the only person I have a clear Town read on is you (YES IM TRYING TO BUDDY UP)

claims town and makes an excuse
doesn't seem to be trying to help, or be serious

On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:

On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.

Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?

They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable.

However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur.

Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments.

Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families).

Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why?

asks a person who supported Palmars case and subsequently voted for Wiggles which of the two they want to lynch

On January 07 2012 02:11 Erandorr wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why do you think Risk is scummiest and not Tyrran/me?

If I am not mistaken then Syllos reasons to rather lynch Palmar have very little to do with the arguments Wiggles brought forward.

Show nested quote +

On January 07 2012 01:59 Zephirdd wrote:

On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:

On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:

Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why?

Check the voting post and decide for yourself who I would rather like to lynch.

Hint: it's obvious

As for "why", I think I stated a couple times already.

Ya, mistake on my side, sorry.

he is asking lots of questions and saying bugger all about what he thinks

I am completely fine with an Erandorr lynch.

@Syllogism, why do you no longer think we should lynch Grackaroni?

I liked some of his newer posts and don't think he is a great lynch today, nothing more specific than that

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 19:11 GMT

#519

On January 07 2012 03:49 Dirkzor wrote:
Syllo why are you cherrypicking what question you answer?! Question!

I'm cherry picking because the answer isn't going to be particularly satisfying and it's unlikely that they will be lynched today. I don't agree with a lot of what Wiggles says about palmar's play, but I've been independently dissatisfied with Palmar's play and I know him very well. It feels to me as if he is only putting in enough effort so that I don't push for his lynch today. He isn't actively pushing to produce information or leading lynches. He is asking some questions, but it doesn't even sound like he is interested in hearing the answers or doing anything with them. I also don't think town palmar would consider Wiggles the best lynch today.

Wiggles hasn't been as active as I would like, but he has rolled scum very frequently and this doesn't yet look like his scum play. While I currently I've a slight town read of him, I haven't put that much effort into reading and analyzing his posts due to thinking that there are much better targets available, I'm not that confident in my read. The two scum team setup also likely makes my early town reads less reliable.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 20:51 GMT

#523

Wiggles what do you think about Erandorr and Risk nuke and don't you think that in a 6 scum game it would be safer play to lynch one of them or Tyrran as I would estimate that they are at least as likely to flip scum and are going to be considerably more worthless even if we happen to be wrong.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 22:22 GMT

#528

On January 07 2012 07:03 Palmar wrote:
whatever. im moving my vote to eran. someone pointed out pushing me like that day 1 is risky. if i get lynched itll at least be a lesson in why listening to meta that has nothing to do with alignment is dumb as fuck.

My problem with your play isn't based on meta, but rather on you not caring about the game and you know it

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 06 2012 23:33 GMT

#543

We should lynch erandorr/risk/tyrran today, regardless of how scummy you think palmar is being. The fact people don't seem to be willing to hop on those wagons despite me repeatedly giving them an opportunity to do so is suspicious. If palmar is scum, he has two scum mates who should be looking for alternative wagons by now. It's of course quite possible that his team mates are on that list but regardless lynching one of those 3 is better day 1 play.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 10:26 GMT

#594

Wiggles: I think palmar is likely scum. It's pretty much impossible to assign probabilities to flips so I'm not even going to bother, but I guess I could say that I don't think they are particularly more likely to flip scum than palmar. The issue is where we are if they don't flip scum; losing palmar day 1 would definitely be much worse. We can probably lynch him tomorrow if he keeps playing like this.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 11:04 GMT

#598

Palmar don't you want risk to answer your question

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 11:14 GMT

#600

Do you think we should lynch him over erandorr if the answer doesn't make sense?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 12:07 GMT

#603

By the way palmar you said you had a town read on wiggles before he "derped out" that case. He had 3 posts before that and they were about general mechanic/policy things.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 12:57 GMT

#606

On January 07 2012 21:50 Tyrran wrote:
As for who i would lynch now, the three target i have in mind are Errandor , for lurking and being useless , Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid.

Amazing, amazing. Tyrran you will have to try really hard tomorrow to dig yourself out of the hole you are currently in. I suppose scum might choose their words more carefully.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 13:33 GMT

#610

Palmar: Erandorr was at like 5 votes (your friend risk.nuke said he found erandorr scummy but didn't vote) and if he is scum, he only has 2 scum mates. There are 18 people in the game.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 14:21 GMT

#618

Haha jackal we can only lynch one person and there are 3 or maybe 4 people who are extremely likely to all flip scum (erandorr, risk, palmar and possibly tyrran)

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 14:36 GMT

#620

If he is scum, he has only two team mates and only 1-2 of "us" can die every night. I don't think lynching him is going to be difficult at all.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 15:42 GMT

#625

Says the guy who is voting for Tyrran, who is at 2 votes. I think we should consolidate on erandorr/risk, though I'm reconsidering palmar again as I don't really see how he can be town by this point

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 19:27 GMT

#650

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard palmar

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 19:58 GMT

#654

Cwave: So who would you rather lynch out of erandorr/risk? There is very little reason to believe that you aren't scum as well; are you going to be too busy for the remainder of the game or do you actually intend to start scum hunting and posting content at some point? Your post count and content is barely above RoL's.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 22:02 GMT

#678

Day ends in 3 hours, but within an hour or two is fine. I'm fine with lynching either erandorr/risk

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 22:29 GMT

#683

On January 08 2012 07:06 Dirkzor wrote:
Syllo how is your stance on palmar now?

I hope you aren't expecting hourly updates on this. The stance is the same as previously stated.

So Palmar when are you going to vote

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:32 GMT

#713

How many do we have around? I'm fine with switching to erandorr, I'm virtually certain that erandorr is scum and only very convinced that risk is

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:35 GMT

#718

risk.nuke please vote erandorr so we can switch if we want, you have to pm the bot, read the OP for instructions

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:38 GMT

#722

We've 80 minutes. Don't unvote and switch unless you can stay that long

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:45 GMT

#733

I haven't been pushing the meta case against Erandorr, but he really wouldn't play like this as town. He even signed up for TL mafia L so he isn't burned out or busy; he just loathes playing as scum. In election mafia he hydraed with curu and refused to post at all due to rolling scum. Yesterday he lied about being sleepy, while I know he had been and still was playing dota 2 and kept playing for at least an hour after making the post (I went to sleep by that point). Such pure meta cases are annoying to push and I thought the case against risk was better in terms of it actually constituting as "playing mafia". But erandorr really can't be town

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:53 GMT

#747

Palmar why won't you switch? Will you switch if we can get enough?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 07 2012 23:58 GMT

#750

No I still think risk is scum, but I'm pretty much certain that erandorr is.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:05 GMT

#755

First of all RoL you aren't voting for anyone right now, read the instructions for voting. Pm the bot:

to: zbot
subject: purgatory
body: ##Vote Erandorr

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:08 GMT

#758

On January 08 2012 09:06 layabout wrote:
last minute non-justified swapping?
fuck you guys

He is going to flip scum, don't worry

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:18 GMT

#764

risk what happened to your bus? Were you going out and decided not to or what?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:28 GMT

#772

On January 08 2012 09:22 layabout wrote:

Show nested quote +

some concerns:
-risk nuke had 9 votes and bluelighz game him a time limit before he would hammer, i don't see what risk.nuke has done to justify a switch.
-I am okay with an Erandorr lynch but i am more confident in an risk.nuke lynch
-TL Mafia XLVIIIn this game Erandorr was scum and he ran for major and was active towards the end of day1 so i am not % sure of meta, i will check more games though.
-This situation is becoming chaotic and i don't think that that is beneficial to town.
-Scum could very easily control who gets lynched

We can switch back, I do agree that last minute switches are awful. I may be too easily fooled by the fact risk is willing to stay here and defend, despite the fact he isn't saying anything useful at all.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:29 GMT

#774

RoL was just here and he indicated willingness to vote for erandorr earlier but he never PMed the bot and disappeared again

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:36 GMT

#791

I'm going to switch back to risk in ~10 minutes. I don't trust Palmar to do anything to help us and RoL appears to have disappeared.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:45 GMT

#816

Well I'm retiring

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 00:48 GMT

#821

Jackal were you just f5ing the thread until you realized people would be willing to lynch erandorr over Risk

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 10:45 GMT

#857

I was so convinced that they would both flip scum, just different teams, that I thought the switch would produce free information. It did produce information, but unfortunately it was hardly free; I think Jackal looks quite suspicious as he suddenly shows up, hasn't even mentioned erandorr until then and only mentioned risk in passing and is immediately willing to switch to erandorr. If risk flips scum, Jackal is relatively likely to be his team mate.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 11:31 GMT

#859

Harbingerofdoom's refusal to vote for Risk seems quite bad as well. He is still ignoring risk and not really explaining why.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 11:57 GMT

#860

So I guess Palmar you are on the other scum team after all? Would explain why you weren't really that keen on Erandorr lynch; you knew he wasn't on your team and that one of the two was thus likely town. Could have at least warned me

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 12:46 GMT

#862

Hello Dirkzor. Are you scum or just stupid? Do you realize that I'm the one who started the risk wagon and pretty much the reason he was sitting at 9 votes (-1 hammer) for something like several hours? Do you think my plan was to bus my team mate for the whole day, wait until he was almost lynched and then do a last minute switch to someone else? Remember, anyone could have hammered him at any point before the switch. How likely do you think it is for scum to bus a team mate in a setup like this? What was the motivation?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 12:53 GMT

#865

I explained it here

Erandorr lied and his play looked exactly like his recent scum play. Unfortunately he apparently had some real life issues/was busy/lazy, so the lesson here is never to go for pure meta when there is a very good alternative that is based on something more substantial

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 12:55 GMT

#866

On January 08 2012 21:52 Tyrran wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hey risk, since you are alive, could you please devellop on this. Whats makes your think Dirkzor and Jackal are red ?

Also, Syllogism, what is your stance about risk.nuke, and why? You basically saved him last night, do you think he is town or not ?

No, how about you tell me your stance. I've explained my stance and you can check my filter to know, but apparently you don't care. I wonder why

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 12:59 GMT

#868

On January 08 2012 21:55 Dirkzor wrote:
I might be stupid... but with a 2 team setup they could both _not_ be on your team. I can just not find any real reason for you to switch unless risk's defence convinced you or Erandorr did something to enhance his case. Neither of which happened.

I realized you have pointed towards risk the whole day and criticized his first post. It only enhanced my question: Why the change?

Again you aren't approaching the situation correctly and not reading my posts. I had made it quite clear all day long that I was fine with lynching both. Now if you assume I'm scum but risk isn't on my team, what was the motivation for "pushing" (note that I wasn't the only one, you are focusing on the wrong person) for the switch? It can only attract suspicion, there is literally no rational motivation except a townie one; that is to say I considered him a bit more likely to flip scum. I was wrong, but it happens and I can assure you most good players who know erandorr and knew what I knew would have pushed to lynch him.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 13:12 GMT

#871

Consider the setup for a second. There are two scum teams and if they had been members of two different teams as looked likely to me at the time, such a switch would likely help establish connections. Scum are much less likely to bus or sacrifice team mates in this setup when presented with a viable alternative. It was probably a bad decision, but it was a decision that made more sense in this setup than in a normal one

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 15:03 GMT

#878

I think some of the blues are too strong for that to be a good idea. As long as claims aren't blindly trusted later on, mass claiming is the inferior strategy. Both angel roles would likely shoot into blues tonight and I don't think the demons have a big incentive to do anything about that; the demon hunter in particular is a too big threat to them. The loss of information doesn't mean no claim can be trusted, it just means you actually have to analyze the player and see if the claim makes sense. Depending on what scum roles we lynch first and who/what angels kill, the roles may be necessary for town to win.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 16:35 GMT

#887

On January 09 2012 01:28 layabout wrote:
@syllogism do you think it would be appropriate to reference our pms during student mafia about suggesting plans?

It's fine, but I don't personally think what was said is relevant here, if I understand correctly what you are referring to.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 16:52 GMT

#889

On January 09 2012 01:44 layabout wrote:
I was just going to quote what you put in the one dated 12/15/11 04:23
does RoL typically suggest plans and does anybody have links to previous ones?
I spent ages in risk.nukes filters yesterday and i don't have the time to do more today.

For the record while the discussion we are having here is innocent, this kind of references to information that only we are privy to might violate the spirit of the game. Regardless I don't think it's something that people expect from him, I certainly don't, and I'm not sure if his plan being bad is indicative of much. If you want to make a case against him, it's probably better to limit your analysis to the plan itself rather than the fact that the plan is bad due to him doing it only because it was expected from him. Risk, palmar and probably tyrran should be the focus of the attention tomorrow, however.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 19:06 GMT

#898

On January 09 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:
yeah, this needs to be done now, or not. I'd rather go with not.

This is palmar scum claiming. He has been trolling for a while now but this is as close at is gets

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 19:30 GMT

#902

You are still pretending that the case against risk was purely meta and it most certainly was not. You are repeating the same misrepresentations that risk used, making you look worse. Moreover the case against Erandorr was pure meta and you were fine with voting for him based on just that. A lot of things were even said about risk.nuke since you made that post. What do you think about him now?

Anyway, we will certainly want to see risk flip first and you have a chance to step up regardless, but I do believe your stance regarding risk nuke has been suspicious

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 19:32 GMT

#904

On January 09 2012 04:18 Dirkzor wrote:

Show nested quote +

If I had written that would you take that as scum claiming?

No, but you aren't a player who I talk extensively about the game, in and out of the game. It's extremely unlikely that he would say that as town and I'm pretty sure that when he wrote that he knew very well how it would look like to me; he has by this point realized that there is little he can do to avoid being lynched so might as well have some fun.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 19:48 GMT

#907

On January 09 2012 04:45 Dirkzor wrote:
See, all i have is your word for it.

But i guess we can lynch him and if he flips town we lynch you...

I don't really care at all if you take my word on it or not; there is a good case against him anyway and that comment was more addressed to Palmar.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 21:43 GMT

#930

It's stupid because I'm not stupid and wouldn't lie for no reason. Palmar was already on everybody's radar, has a good case made against him and I likely could even have gotten him lynched today, but rather opted for the "safer option" which may have been a mistake. So what is the rational scum motivation for lying in this situation? There is none.

Notice how palmar has basically stopped talking to me. I can assure you that he is completely certain that I'm town (and not only because he is scum) and yet doesn't care about cooperating with me. Even if you don't know about our appreciation for each other's play, just the fact we played as a hydra in Election mafia should be ample evidence of that. It's of course always possible to wrong, even when making definitive statements.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 22:27 GMT

#933

Only one mafia team can "safely" fake claim and angels have no means of protecting themselves from seer checks or even the demon hunter, which functions pretty much like a DT if the target doesn't die. If an angel fake claims some blue role, they also open themselves to demons constantly role blocking them with demonic courier, so pretty much only the angelic observer can claim until that role is dead.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 08 2012 23:41 GMT

#951

We aren't mass claiming and regardless of how good you think your plan is, you shouldn't try to get people to claim individually as that's just awful.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 10:58 GMT

#1008

I'm pretty sure palmar sent HoD to purgatory because he thought he was likely an angel. We of course can't draw any conclusions from that, but as noted before HoD's play has been somewhat suspicious so far. Anyway, either the angel of death attempted to hit me or the angel is HoD (or both!)

It's also fairly likely that Palmar was a demon hunter hit because demon Demonic Twister's power protects against slay/stalk but not against demon hunter. Palmar had an important role, so it's somewhat likely that they would use it on him. I'm not sure if the twister can use the ability on himself, but right considering Palmar was by far attracting the most attention, that might change things depending on who the twister is. The only reason why it matters who hit Palmar is because the other possibility is that the demon hunter hit an angel who did not die, in which case we could discuss whether him claiming would be worthwhile. Probably not and his likely target would be risk nuke anyway.

Risk.nuke still looks like the best lynch. The case against him still stands and quite a few people were against his lynch without adequately explaining why. They obviously can't all be his team mates, but it's hard to believe there would be that many townies unwilling to lynch him in that situation and be perfectly fine with lynching erandorr. His behaviour hasn't improved at all and that vt claim right before day post doesn't seem like something a townie would do.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 15:15 GMT

#1029

I'm more interested in what you think of risk.nuke right now

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 16:02 GMT

#1033

On January 10 2012 00:52 Jackal58 wrote:

Show nested quote +

And what do you think of Dirkzor?

Early on he was somewhat calling out palmar and was willing to lynch risk. While later his position on Palmar shifted, he did it manner that doesn't appear scummy especially due to the fact that if Palmar was on his team, he almost certainly would have told him that it's a bad idea. He was also willing to push me, which is also something that I think a team mate of palmar would be less likely to do in that situation. He could act like that as scum and some of his assertions don't make sense, but I don't think he is a good lynch today. Even if he is a team mate of palmar, which I consider unlikely right now, we shouldn't lynch a demon tonight. Demon hunter and angels can both kill demons, they are a man and an important role down. I'm fairly convinced that we need to see risk flip.

By the way demons it is in your best interest to let us see that flip, because if he flips an angel, we will be able to go after the remainder of his team, instead of being forced to focus on more general scum hunting.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 16:12 GMT

#1034

It's possible that I'm tunnelling risk nuke, perhaps I will re-evaluate. The thing is that either they shot me (likely meaning that I was on to one or some of them) or HoD is the angel of death. There are some other unlikely scenarios, but those are the ones that most make sense. Risk/HoD have some interaction that makes it a bit less likely that they are team mates than I initially thought.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 16:33 GMT

#1036

Risk: Do you think HoD or Tyrran would be a better lynch today? You need to do something if you don't want to be lynched today

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 16:36 GMT

#1037

On January 10 2012 01:32 Cwave wrote:

Show nested quote +

Syllogism.
Im trying to look for the context in the thread before this post but it seems to me you are referring to Palmar as being in the "other scum" team, implicating you are in a "scum team" aswell?

Do you mean Risk.nuke has high potential for being an Angel(seeing as Palmar flipped Demon) or did you slip here and write from your own perspective? Being a scum team and seeing as Palmar flipped Demon, making you an Angel?

Or am i not reading this right?

Palmar was in the end quite willing to lynch risk. I think he would have went after Erandorr earlier if risk was on his team. So yes that means if risk is scum, he is very likely an angel.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 16:46 GMT

#1040

Are you even reading the thread? Read the last few pages and come back

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 19:01 GMT

#1056

Even disregarding the discussion as to what is the optimal strategy for angel night hits, demons definitely want to get angels lynched. Blocking angel of death means there is no AoD kill, which can instantly make the person who was sent into purgatory look suspicious and thus could get them lynched. Demons probably also benefit from no kill nights due to the corruption mechanic. Having said that, the topic of discussion is quite irrelevant because I'm obviously not going to look for scum Palmar for lynch advice. Whether he thinks you are blue or angel doesn't matter at all.

Also while Palmar is a very good player, he doesn't care about game mechanics, so I doubt he put much thought into who he targeted in terms of overall game strategy.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 19:55 GMT

#1065

I haven't been paying attention to this whole lying about voting thing, but it seems very unlikely to me that it was intentional. If Refallen is scum, I doubt he would prefer a day 1 no lynch over lynching town or lynching a member of the opposing team. If town had no lynched due to his vote not going through, he would have to explain his actions.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 09 2012 20:09 GMT

#1067

I think it's something that should just be encouraged, but not something that should be a policy. People are going to forget and I don't think it's particularly helpful to keep pointing that out. The information itself can be useful, but it's not really crucial.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 05:59 GMT

#1130

Risk.nuke: I asked you a question. Would you rather lynch Tyrran or HoD today and why?

This RoL wagon is incredibly suspicious. We aren't lynching him today.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:02 GMT

#1132

On January 10 2012 15:00 Spaackle wrote:
@Syllo. If not him, then who?

Risk or Tyrran

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:04 GMT

#1133

Hello Tyrran is Risk still a null read to you and why? What do you think about these posts?

Syllogism, there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them. Then I wanted to see who would comment on it further, what they would say, who would push for their lynch etc. What the hell are you doing? commenting on how useless I am when you don't know my agenda which you just ruined because you didn't think it through. Or were you planning on pushing for my lynch today. Cause if you weren't there is nothing pro-town about calling me out. I'm town and you're forcing me to reveal what I wanted to do. If I had been scum you would had just tipped me off instead of saving it for a case you would write against me.

So syllogism I don't like having meta thrown in my face. First of all nobody likes having meta thrown in thier face because it's not really something you can defend yourself against. But there are different sorts of meta. There are meta of people who have played alot of games who's meta can be very clear (erandorr). Then there is meta of people who have played games as both mafia and town. Then there is meta against me who have only played as town. I mean I've had people calling me out on meta in all of my games exept 1 or 2 and I've always been town including this time so I'm getting a bit sick of it.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:09 GMT

#1137

On January 10 2012 15:05 Blazinghand wrote:

Show nested quote +

Both of those guys are also scum so it's not really useful to talk to them

It looks like criticism of his bad plan, which doesn't make him mafia. It's a very weak case. Him being completely worthless is a better reason to lynch him, but not good enough to ignore people who have genuinely been here and played incredibly suspiciously. What do you think about risk/tyrran now?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:19 GMT

#1140

I said that is a better reason to lynch him, but I believe that he is busy (see: Responsibility mafia) so his activity being a null tell makes him a clearly worse lynch than risk/tyrran.

Risk.nuke: unless you can convince me to lynch Tyrran instead, we are lynching you. Good luck

##vote risk.nuke

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:23 GMT

#1142

No, I'm saying he is busy due to being busy (work/real life) and as we can only lynch one per day, we prioritize the better lynches. Townies suggest bad plans all the time and defend them to death.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:30 GMT

#1145

See this is why people call you WBG's smurf. You are like a wall. I've repeatedly said that him being worthless is suspicious but that doesn't mean that he is a better lynch than the other two. Who do you think is more likely to suggest and defend a plan that is clearly going to be controversial? Town or Scum?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:37 GMT

#1149

It depends on how the person who suggests the plan thinks it is going to be received. I doubt RoL thought a mass claim on day 1 plan was going to be well received. Scum do not want to suggest a plan that instantly makes them the center of unwanted attention. Further, I don't think it's quite that obvious that the plan is bad and I think he thought quite a bit about it, which suggests to me that he really does think it's a good idea. Regardless, as I can't reliably determine if he really believes the plan is good or not, I'm treating it as null. His activity and lack of scum hunting is not null, but again I'm not lynching him over risk/tyrran.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 06:44 GMT

#1154

HoD: I'll have to think about it more, but purely based on informational purposes risk is much better given the activity surrounding him on day 1

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 09:24 GMT

#1161

Cwave I read that post several times and I've no idea what you are saying. If you are town you need to seriously re-evaluate your play. Specifically I would like to see you rephrase or explain what you said here

In short, lynching Risk but hammering RoL is second best option. Syllo doesn't seem to agree on this, why i don't know.

Are you saying that you want to lynch risk? Why are you voting for RoL then? We've almost 40 hours of the day left, so if you truly consider risk the better lynch, you aren't making any sense.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 09:52 GMT

#1163

Is that supposed to be a clarification? He still isn't voting for the person he wants to lynch most, who is also quite clearly a person we can lynch today. No one is "hammering" anything with 40 hours of the day left.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 12:39 GMT

#1180

Risk I've asked you twice to give me your opinion on Tyrran. You just have to convince me that he is a better lynch than you and perhaps I will push for his lynch instead! Why aren't you cooperating? You haven't posted any content since people became suspicious of you.

Cwave: I asked you a question. You are clearly reading the thread but apparently refusing to answer. Please do.

Tyrran: Oh look, you find him scummy but hope a better lynch magically materializes so you don't have to vote for him. You certainly aren't scum hunting. Let me guess, you would rather lynch RoL?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 12:44 GMT

#1182

Oh look risk invoking meta against some who has played one game before this one.

Lynch risk and once he flips angel, lynch tyrran

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 12:57 GMT

#1186

On January 10 2012 21:54 Cwave wrote:

Show nested quote +

I want to lynch both.
Unlike RoL(aka the guy who doesn't post) risk.nuke is still producing reactions and information in the progress, so RoL is a good option in my book. Hence i vote for him at this point as lynchtarget.

No, you said RoL is the second best option and implied that risk is your #1 option. Are you saying you misspoke then?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 13:10 GMT

#1189

Tyrran: is this the reason you find jackal scummy?

Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid.

Now that Palmar flipped demon, you still think he is a good lynch today? Sorry, there is no way you can honestly believe that.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 13:24 GMT

#1191

On January 10 2012 22:22 Cwave wrote:
No, i say Risk is my number one case.
If we can lynch him today, i will vote.
However, given the certain situation, RoL is ALSO a very good option to lynch.

One does not exclude the other and i don't feel we are misslynching if we prefer Risk over RoL or vice versa.

What in the thread did i miss that makes RoL not a good lynch atm? (yes risk is a good lynch and i want him hang aswell).

What you missed was that you think risk is your #1 case and you aren't voting for him. How does that make sense? It's pretty depressing that I have to explain this.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 13:34 GMT

#1193

On January 10 2012 22:31 Cwave wrote:
Why?? I think it's utterly retarded if it ends up in a stallmate/no lynch cause people won't vote for their number 2 given the situation.

It's depressing if people can't comprimise if anything.
If i thought RoL wasn't a good lynch, i wouldn't vote.

The way it works is we vote for who we think is the best lynch, push for the lynch and then if it looks like we can't get the one we would like lynched, we switch. There's 35 hours of the day left. You've absolutely no reason to believe your #1 target couldn't get lynched today, considering that he was almost lynched yesterday.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 14:33 GMT

#1197

Zephirdd: you don't assume stupid things just because they are possible. Read my filter and tell me if it looks like scum play; it does not. I even suggested that the channeler should use its power to protect likely n1 targets, which would be ridiculously bad if I was the angel of death. Thus you should either conclude that they tried to hit me or HoD is the angel. The former likely implies that there was a reason for angels to want me dead, which implicates risk/tyrran.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 15:19 GMT

#1202

On January 10 2012 23:34 risk.nuke wrote:

Show nested quote +

This means nothing, quite obviously if you were scum you would act like you played pro town.

This is perhaps the single most scummiest thing I've seen on TL Mafia. Lynch this scum please

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 16:27 GMT

#1210

On January 11 2012 01:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Lol, are you guys retarded? I am gone for a day and you guys go batshit stupid and try to lynch me? I have work until 6pm but when I get back whoever the fuck is pushing this is getting reamed and I will finally get on my analysis game that I have been meaning to do.

We aren't lynching you, we are lynching risk who will flip scum. Relax

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 16:38 GMT

#1219

Cwave your "#1 lynch" is now leading in votes so I assume that you will now happily switch!

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 10 2012 18:29 GMT

#1234

Explain what? That's what every single scum says once they run out of options. There is no downside to saying that. You escape the lynch for another day and possibly out the DT.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 12:27 GMT

#1302

Cwave you still haven't voted for your #1 scum read. Are you going to?

We need 2 to hammer risk, the wait is killing me

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 12:32 GMT

#1307

So are you going to explain why it took this long for you to actually vote for #1 read instead of your #2 read? Don't go anywhere, I expect a reasonable explanation

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 12:40 GMT

#1309

But yesterday rather than arguing why your #1 should be lynched, you just wagoned RoL presumably because he had more votes. Then you disappeared and ignored my requests to move your vote, despite risk suddenly looking like a much more viable lynch and lynch viability was presumably the reason why you voted for RoL instead. You haven't been discussing anything for the last 40 hours.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 12:56 GMT

#1311

But you also had no problem with voting RoL, weren't you afraid of hammer then? If you were so afraid of someone being hammered, wouldn't just voting for your #1 read in the first place make sense?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 13:06 GMT

#1313

That didn't answer my question, but that's fine because there is no explanation for your actions. The question is whether you didn't want to vote for him because he is your scum buddy or because you are a townie who makes no sense at all.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 13:37 GMT

#1315

I do not make stuff up. That is not an acceptable explanation, unless that somehow means that your #1 lynch isn't really your #1 lynch, in which case you can argue that it makes some sense.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:03 GMT

#1326

Alright, first of all I will never admit that was a poor lynch. Risk did no scum hunting at all following his single case post, which itself was suspicious, on day 1 and his defense made no sense at all. Further, a bunch of people acted suspiciously when asked for the opinion on him and Tyrran/Cwave refused to touch the lynch on two days.

The fact I was wrong likely means that I was not hit on day 1, which significantly increases the likelihood of HoD being the angel of death. I will have to consider something.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:08 GMT

#1327

You are right Jackal that hammer post was quite suspicious and uncharacteristic of you. The content, not the fact you hammered.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:12 GMT

#1328

Bluelightz it's impossible to tell if you are another sinani, scum or both. This game is getting quite frustrating due to abundance of players who aren't making sense, doing anything or even posting in a manner that allows me to even attempt to guess their alignment.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:21 GMT

#1331

You are one of the people who don't make sense. Palmar flipped demon.

I think it's very likely that at least some of the people who were reluctant to touch risk lynch are scum. There was nothing redeeming about his play and it looked almost completely different than in every other game he has played. Even worse, the reasons these people gave for not wanting to lynch him were wholly inadequate.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:28 GMT

#1335

I'm tempted to propose lynching anyone apologizing to risk without even looking at their filters. Very rarely would I consider a mislynch unavoidable, but this is one of those cases.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:37 GMT

#1336

Harbingerofdoom posted this day 1

Are people seriously trying to implicate me on the basis of "soft-defending" risk by voting Erandorr instead? Now, I can't speak for the people throwing suspicion on me, but I sure as hell don't know risk's alignment, and unless they somehow do, I don't see how it can be implicate me as being scum. Anyone trying to implicate me on this before risk flips is using shitty logic. If risk flips scum and then you want to come after me, then you have some logic on your side. I did not vote for risk nor comment on it much as I had (and still have) a null read on risk. Risk has been in every game I've played on here, and his play-style has varied too much from game to game for me to be comfortable with a day 1 read on him.

This sounds as if you knew he was going to flip town. I suppose the problem with that is that he could still have flipped the other scum team.

Grackaroni you have basically stopped playing. Another player who clearly does not care about the game at all.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 15:50 GMT

#1339

Almost instant delurk doesn't exactly point towards you having been busy today.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 16:25 GMT

#1345

Because he was going to be lynched anyway and it appears that the night is accordingly longer? Considering that I personally would have liked to hammer yesterday, I wouldn't read too much into that. Jackal's tone however seems off though. Specifically his random apology. Did he apologize to erandorr yesterday? No. Does he ever apologize when lynching someone? I doubt it.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 16:39 GMT

#1347

Polite and lurking jackal is far more likely to be scum jackal. His play so far has constituted of picking a target to tunnel and then basically doing nothing else and posting quite little. I wouldn't even consider it out of the question that he is a demon because Jackal tunnelling someone usually won't get the target lynched and people expect him to tunnel palmar every game.

Mafia are much more likely to post something unnatural when hammering due to their inherent guilt

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 19:22 GMT

#1360

Pretty much everything you said about Tyrran (passivity, lack of confidence in his reads, overall disinterest in the lynches) applied to risk as well. Can you point out what made risk look like a townie (?) to you?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 19:44 GMT

#1362

Besides you didn't "defend" risk or push Tyrran. You made a few posts stating on your opinion on the lynches (it sounded like you were ok with risk lynch). Who are the "other players" in the game you would have lynched over risk, besides Tyrran?

Overall I don't have a problem with your posting. The issue I have is that if you aren't AoD, why did they risk shooting me last night if I was likely going to be leading another mislynch?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 19:49 GMT

#1363

None of those posts demonstrate the things you were talking about and aggression against the person who is pushing to lynch you isn't particularly a townie trait. He didn't sound like a vt who was about to be lynched while town was still in a good position. That day one "phew I escaped a lynch" post sounded forced or at best null. He didn't make your top 5 most likely to be scum? You said you would vote for him over RoL at least. Who were your top 5 reads over risk and why didn't you talk about them?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 19:56 GMT

#1365

And yes, he was completely disinterested in the lynch on day 2. That seemed particularly damning; I even had to ask him 3 times until I got his opinion on Tyrran out of him and even then the answer was

I don't think I'm willing to lynch him just yet. But that could change, I'm not going to say I can't be talked into lynching him so he can just lurk the entire day safely.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 20:05 GMT

#1366

Anyway, don't take this to mean you I consider you a good lynch based on your actual posting. I think you've sufficiently explained why you disliked the lynch and I mostly agree with what you've said about other players. I'm merely questioning you due to the fact no townies dies on night 1 and we were blocked.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 20:14 GMT

#1369

On January 12 2012 05:06 Dirkzor wrote:

Show nested quote +

That Risk wrote that made him less suspicious in my book then Tyrrans "Yes risk is scum lets lynch him" post. Tyrran just wanted another one to be lynched while risk actually took a stance. A stance that was also contradicting to the generel feeling in the thread. That is to me more townie then what Tyrran did.

It came very late, basically when risk was already doomed and only after he had waffled quite a bit. I suppose the one thing that might have allowed me to get away from the lynch was assuming that no scum mates would play that poorly.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 20:41 GMT

#1372

Tyrran post a case on someone you would like to be lynched tomorrow and it can't be Jackal and it can't be copy/pasted material like everything else you've said so far.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 11 2012 20:51 GMT

#1374

No, I meant during the night. That is to say on Thursday as it's relatively late in France.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 06:13 GMT

#1387

Oh look the thread has been basically dead for 9 hours. Grackaroni you said you would have more time today and you made one post.

RoL all your posts have been about the dumb plan of yours in one way or another. Thanks for joining the game if you are town. No the fact you are busy does not excuse you at all. You'll have another stretch of 24 hours of inactivity soon.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 06:38 GMT

#1389

Are you going to give us your opinion on anything besides RoL? You are basically another Jackal by this point

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 14:32 GMT

#1396

I actually agree that it's strange that he was so bothered about being sent into purgatory. It's even more suspicious when you combine this with his lack of suspicion on me. He was also not so subtly pushing the idea that he may blue. All these point towards him not wanting to be jailed again.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 17:56 GMT

#1404

I can't believe I somehow had missed this

On January 10 2012 15:05 Blazinghand wrote:

Show nested quote +

Both of those guys are also scum so it's not really useful to talk to them

On January 10 2012 15:15 Blazinghand wrote:
I think risk is scum and I need to read tyrran's filter

So first you called them both scum and then 10 minutes later you have to read Tyrran's filter to answer. You never posted your thoughts on Tyrran after that. You have done absolutely nothing in the last few days. I'd read the rest of your filter but it's a bit too taunting to bother right now, but just the above peculiarity is starting to make me wonder if your scum play too resembles that of WBGs.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 18:27 GMT

#1407

Oh another instant delurker. Your case is incredibly bad whether RoL is scum or not and thus it's extremely difficult to believe your confidence is genuine

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 18:30 GMT

#1410

You hadn't read tyrran's filter, but you called him scum. You still haven't read his filter, but you call him scum.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 21:54 GMT

#1446

I think he is likely mafia by this point, though probably not the absolutely best lynch. I do not think he is mafia due to the awful plan, but rather for being otherwise completely worthless and disinterested. I imagine Grackaroni, cwave, spaackle, tyrran, Jackal is scum infested too. Jackal's tone is okay, and that is usually the easiest way to spot his scum play, but he is still just lurking and tunnelling a different person every day.

Pretty much impossible to tell what bluelightz is; I even tried to look at his non-mafia posts to see if he could really act like this as town but there were none. I suppose the fact he is always making himself available to questions is something. I haven't put any effort into the game today and thus haven't reread the filters to see what would make sense in terms of connections.

While I'm not going to bother reading Blazing's filter, I'm just going to assume that his mafia play wouldn't look like this, despite how little sense he makes. Also someone who I'm just going to start ignoring every game.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 22:32 GMT

#1455

For the record, I do not want to survive the night

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 23:49 GMT

#1472

HoD you asked Grackaroni, Spaackle and Cwave for their scum reads and they mostly didn't materialize. Do you not care? You have been quite detached from the game; certainly not one I would characterize as someone who attempts to produce information and then do something with it. Indeed you seem to put most of your efforts into defending yourself or arguing about irrelevant game mechanics/strategy issues.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 12 2012 23:53 GMT

#1478

Limited time and instantly delurk

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 00:14 GMT

#1496

Just like we could hold you to this?

I will get out my analysis before the day post tomorrow, hopefully I can get some done before work tomorrow, but if not after 6pm EST I will be home trying to get some shit done.

Day ends in 50 minutes

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 00:22 GMT

#1504

On January 13 2012 09:18 Grackaroni wrote:

Show nested quote +

It shouldn't be all that hard really. He's done nothing but flip-flop on RoL. Scum buddies??

So what happened to all your free time on Wednesday? I'm sure I know the reason but I'm curious about the answer

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 00:26 GMT

#1507

Of course, I too would spend as little time as I could get away with in your situation

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 01:11 GMT

#1513

Someone is exceptionally stupid

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 10:47 GMT

#1541

If you don't have time, you don't join games. If something comes up during the game, you sub out. This is the first time in 9 days you post something that actually matters. Do you think that is acceptable? You've had several 24 hour periods of inactivity, even after being warned about it (for some reason you didn't get force replaced).

Some parts of your case against blazing are laughable. His bullying makes people less likely to challenge him or sheep him? It certainly makes people more likely to ignore him, but other than that it's nonsense. This would be his first game as scum and second game overall. Is this the kind of play you would expect from his first play as scum? Did you look at his Student mafia filter?

He certainly is open and aggressive about his reads, even if they are all poorly supported; unfortunately I would need to know if I can expect him to make sense for that to be anything more than a null. Some aspects of his play do look suspicious, but especially with 5 scum still left he is a very bad lynch.

What do you think about Jackal? Tyrran? Grackaroni? HoD? What do you think AoD did on night 1?

I'm not sure how much effort I'll bother putting into the game today. Some (at least mostly) townies have been basically actively sabotaging the game. Not to say I've played well as my posts have lacked in content, been spammy and I've been wrong several times. However at least I've made it clear that I care about game, care about who is being lynched and established my innocence quite early to anyone with a pair of eyes.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 12:27 GMT

#1542

Though I've to say that based on Blazing's student mafia filter, he seemed a lot less stupid and more rational

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 15:18 GMT

#1548

Jackal RoL made promises too and didn't keep them. Are you not up to lynching him? What about dirkzor, your previous random vote you never bothered to push or justify? If you've to choose between Tyrran and RoL today, which one will you be voting?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 15:22 GMT

#1550

I'm not answering your questions. Feel free to, however, tell me your own personal preferences. It's very much appreciated.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 15:52 GMT

#1561

Even if we assume your assertion about aggressive dismissive posting to be correct, do you think it's something mafia is more likely to do? Being aggressive is certainly generally towny. How likely do you think it is for a person who has not played mafia elsewhere and playing only his second game here (according to his TL mafia census post) to play like that if he happened to roll scum? Do you seriously think he is the best lynch with 5 mafia left?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 15:57 GMT

#1562

And regarding promises kept

On January 11 2012 16:37 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
As a side note, I read a few of the tyrran analysis and I found them well reasoned, I will try to give my own thoughts on it tomorrow.

On January 12 2012 17:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
just got home, F5'd and saw the lynch. I will get out my analysis before the day post tomorrow, hopefully I can get some done before work tomorrow, but if not after 6pm EST I will be home trying to get some shit done.

On an unrelated note, if anyone likes medieval art and lives around NYC, fort tryson has a pretty cool renaissance collection that I checked out today. It's called The Cloisters and going to it gives you admittance to MET as well during the same day.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 16:05 GMT

#1565

That's not a mistake. I did not say you necessarily need experience, I was talking about probabilities.

WBG posts a lot like him as town and is a bit more subdued as scum.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 16:23 GMT

#1569

On January 14 2012 01:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Show nested quote +

This isn't a game of the coin flipping heads, people are different and how they play will be different. WBG is actually a good example of exactly what I was talking about.

Yes it is unless you can show that the kind of behaviour you you describe is much more likely to make someone mafia rather than an aggressive townie and even then you have to adjust based on what you would expect on newer mafia players in general.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 22:33 GMT

#1608

Alright, Harbingerofdoom's only scum read in the last few days has been Tyrran and now he isn't so sure any more. He doesn't think blazing is scum. Probably not Grackaroni. RoL? Nope. Cwave? Err, no HoD didn't really say that either, though apparently he was one of the people he would have lynched over risk. Spaackle? He dislikes "the look of spaackle", asks him a question and doesn't follow up. No scum anywhere apparently

##vote harbingerofdoom

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 13 2012 23:02 GMT

#1619

Lych HoD, the angel of death and send rebirthofthelegend to purgatory. Neither of them is actually interested in finding scum, at all.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 00:24 GMT

#1626

I do not particularly care what spaackle is right now. Zephirdd if you think him defending palmar was weird (it wasn't really, few of you actually know what palmar's town and scum play look like), you probably think he is a demon. We do not want to lynch a demon. Vote for HoD.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 00:49 GMT

#1634

Zephirdd where did you disappear? Are you willing to vote for HoD? I'll rather have this conversation now than right before deadline tomorrow.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 00:54 GMT

#1636

Oh so only basing lynch on the fact he has done no scum hunting, been only defending himself, made a bunch of really strange posts from town perspective (like the one about palmar thinking that he was blue) and there was no kill on the night he was jailed. He never really suspected me despite knowing his own alignment, because he didn't want the focus to be on the fact that one of the jailed players is AoD.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:01 GMT

#1688

I think it's likely that Wiggles was the sage

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:03 GMT

#1689

But I'm likely fine with lynching RoL instead

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:07 GMT

#1690

There are only two roles angels can really fake claim in this setup: Sage and seer. Breadcrumbing means absolutely nothing, especially if RoL is on his team to give him the idea.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:18 GMT

#1693

On January 14 2012 13:37 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
And layabout, I like how you managed to find a replacement for doing any actual analysis or scum-hunting, it's cute.

You have done zero scum hunting. Now you pop-in, claim sage and don't even say who you want to lynch.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:23 GMT

#1694

Wiggles warned about trusting breadcrumbing and posted this on n2

Because I want him (RoL) shot tonight by the DH. He probably won't flip, though, as I get the feeling he's an angel more than a demon, so the seer can potentially check him as well. It also solves the problem of having to convince people to lynch him if he flips demon, as most people seem very reluctant to push anyone who they see as a "vet".

I think he investigated RoL on n1 and got not-demon

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:44 GMT

#1696

Look at Wiggles' post above and see how it makes sense coming from someone who isn't the Sage. He did not ask the sage to investigate RoL.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 10:46 GMT

#1697

Well I suppose it sort of makes sense as DH+sage would be a waste. Further, there's nothing particularly wrong with lynching RoL and sending HoD to purgatory

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 11:45 GMT

#1699

On January 14 2012 20:33 Refallen wrote:
I don't think we should lynch anyone who roleclaimed unless there's no other targets.

This is awful, but in this situation I might be fine with lynching RoL as we can still jail HoD. Frankly it looks like they've both given up. It's extremely unlikely for the real sage to do what HoD did; that is to say basically stop playing, show up to claim sage and then not do anything else. I'm very confident that HoD is the angel of death and quite confident RoL is some other angel.

Wiggles' post makes most sense, by far, from the perspective of Sage who knew he was likely going to die. Also, angels can't really fake claim seer either because then you have to explain why you are being left alive.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 11:53 GMT

#1701

On January 14 2012 20:48 Refallen wrote:
My statement dosen't have anything to do with how likely the claim is being true. I don't want to lynch anyone who roleclaims until the concealer dies.

It's still an awful statement in general. What if the role claimer is the last angel, there are demons left and our channeler is dead? There are other similar scenarios where lynching the role claimer is absolutely correct, especially when the claim makes no sense as at all in the context of his play and the role he claimed DOES make sense in the context of someone else whose flip was concealed. In this case the only reason I'm likely willing to lynch RoL instead is because it's actually better jail the AoD than kill it immediately.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 12:33 GMT

#1703

Bluelightz vote RebirthOfLeGenD before you disappear again

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 17:18 GMT

#1720

RoL didn't even change his vote to HoD and barely put any effort into his defense, again. Similarly HoD didn't bother commenting on the lynch, defend himself or vote for RoL. If they are both angels as appears likely, it doesn't seem like they can win, which explains the apathy. Jailing AoD rather than killing is marginally better because then angels will have, at most, access to Stalk and not Slay. When AoD is dead, acolyte can Slay, though the flip won't be concealed.

Of course if we somehow think RoL could be town and might convince us of that tomorrow, then lynching HoD is better.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 18:40 GMT

#1722

Vote for RoL then and we will jail you tonight

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 18:45 GMT

#1724

In 3-4 hours is fine. If you aren't here to vote, we will just lynch you instead.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 18:47 GMT

#1726

Also I see you still aren't either reading the thread or just cherry picking things. I explained why breadcrumbing sage is pretty much the only possibility.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 18:50 GMT

#1728

I did not and we've a reason to believe that Wiggles was the sage. Are you going to spend your time today posting analysis or are you going to be really busy again?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 19:00 GMT

#1731

Now that you are here RoL, please move your vote to HoD

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 19:24 GMT

#1735

Thanks RoL, I know we can count on you to deliver

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 19:35 GMT

#1738

No one is voting for spaackle and you better be around to change your vote to whoever we consider the best lynch in a few hours. Encouraging random people to vote for a person with 1 when we've 5 hours until lynch and a no-lynch is a possibility is very poor play or suspicious.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 19:44 GMT

#1740

Zephirdd being the third angel actually makes some sense based on a quick filter check. Thanks for the help you two.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 20:22 GMT

#1742

I should know better than to bother asking, but do you think Spaackle is an angel or demon? You said you were suspicious of him because he defended palmar the demon. After answering that, do you think HoD/RoL are demons? Because that's the only reason for demons not to "hammer" someone. They only have one corrupted vote and it might be voting for those two already anyway.

Things are fitting together quite well actually and the more you talk the more they fit.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 20:33 GMT

#1745

I see so you want to lynch a demon today and what you wrote above is nonsense as demons have no way of knowing whether someone is town or angel, and as you don't think they are demons there is nothing weird about the lack of hammer, even assuming they would like or could do such a thing.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 20:46 GMT

#1747

I already explained why it only makes sense to breadcrumb sage and also explained why there is a reason to believe wiggles was sage. I'm quite sure you've read the posts. I don't particularly care if you respond to this. Anyway, you shouldn't worry as it's more likely that we lynch RoL and jail HoD. Or perhaps that's precisely why you are worried

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:42 GMT

#1751

I'm around, basically just waiting until we decide to hammer. I suppose we'll wait for layabout at least

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:47 GMT

#1756

He said he won't post until tomorrow, so basically HoD and RoL both gave excuses for not doing anything before the lynch. Likely because they feel it's wasted effort as they don't have towns interest in mind.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:52 GMT

#1760

No you are not, dont counter claim

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:54 GMT

#1763

Well we can discuss whether counter claiming is worth it. It means that if RoL is an angel and not the acolyte, they can definitely kill the channeler after tonight. We can still jail HoD however

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:57 GMT

#1765

There is no way RoL proposed that dumb blue claim plan AND claimed VT if he is the channeler. It's also unlikely that he would have jailed me n1

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 21:59 GMT

#1769

I think we should just lynch him now. He would have claimed earlier if he really was the channeler and it's incredibly convenient that he just happened to read the thread when we were discussing hammering. He is also not giving us anything

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:01 GMT

#1773

Near the bottom of this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13054857

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:03 GMT

#1778

I'll hammer then

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:07 GMT

#1791

Well that's boring

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:09 GMT

#1797

If the channeler is alive (which he is), send HarbingerOfDoom into purgatory tonight

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:18 GMT

#1803

I haven't reread filters, but currently I'm still liking HoD/RoL/Zephirdd as the angel team and Grackaroni and/or Tyrran as demon(s) and then one or two others. If HoD/RoL both flip angel, which should be clear by the end of tomorrow, there's a high chance of Zephirdd being the third and not just because his strange behaviour before the lynch.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:22 GMT

#1804

Wait I can't count, one demon is dead so obviously not two others

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:26 GMT

#1806

Well that channeler claim certainly makes more sense for an angel, but yes that is one of the reasons

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 14 2012 22:32 GMT

#1808

Fine, a dumb townie then but certainly the situation will be re-evaluated tomorrow

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 00:03 GMT

#1813

Then he would have claimed way earlier, please think. Or is this a really bad attempt of a demon trying to get townie cred by pretending not to know what he fllipped

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 00:03 GMT

#1814

Jackal58: demons can conceal a lynch flip once per game

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 10:38 GMT

#1825

HoD: I don't know why you bother arguing about your role as if you aren't the AoD, you will be cleared by the day post. You keep making excuses for your activity and still find yourself unable to call anyone scum. Are you going to be busy tonight? Can we expect you to make some real cases in which you actually reach a conclusion? You know something like this

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12135649

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 11:30 GMT

#1827

Yes, AoD killing certainly wouldn't confirm him as town, just confirm him as non-AoD

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 17:21 GMT

#1831

Why don't you tell us? Asking what we are going to do in a specific situation that isn't particularly likely to occur and not providing your own insight is quite annoying. Such a right is earned when town already considers you innocent. You appear to keep expecting things not to go as we think they will, which is puzzling

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 19:29 GMT

#1835

That's not a meta argument at all; you can pretend the link isn't there and it is just as valid reason to believe your play isn't consistent with that of a townie. What you wrote about Tyrran applies quite well to you as well

His passivity and seeming lack of confidence in his reads and overall disinterest in the lynches just seems unlike most townies

Even when you were in danger of being lynched you didn't particularly care

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 19:49 GMT

#1838

On January 16 2012 04:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:

Show nested quote +

Just like Risk didn't care, amiright?

Yes, you realize these are heuristics and can not conclusively determine alignment. Anyway, the hostility seems unnecessary considering it's your own lack of commitment to the game that has lead you to this point if you are town. Whether you have been busy is irrelevant and I strongly dislike people who keep making excuses for their activity day after day. You chose to join this game. Moreover, day post should clear some suspicion of you if you are town, so again you should concentrate on what matters rather than attacking someone who is clearly town.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 20:12 GMT

#1840

You are right about those players and I've a problem with pretty much every single player that you listed. At least they don't keep making excuses for their activity, but I suppose most of them haven't been pressured. None of them appear to care about the game at all and the townies among them are doing what they can to make us lose the game. I'm putting considerably less effort into reading the thread than I should due to the fact there are so many non-entities playing.

You don't have to convince me of anything during the night and what you are saying isn't particularly relevant anyway.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 20:16 GMT

#1841

If you are town, you should examine the wagon on you before you claimed and what people were saying. Actually I'm now reading it a bit and this is somewhat changing my view on things

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 21:06 GMT

#1844

No, I most certainly wanted to die, specifically because the game is full of players such as you

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 15 2012 21:12 GMT

#1845

Fact is that you forced things to look like HoD was a goddamn Angel even when he claimed the ONE role he couldn't as an Angel: IF he said a Demon was actually green, the Demons would push him to death because they would know he was an Angel, and we probably wouldn't even realize that. He had a fucking breadcrumb for his target against what others thought yet you still believed that he was an Angel.

This is again utter nonsense and ignores everything that has been said about the topic before.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 09:21 GMT

#2601

I can't believe you wasted AoD on palmar on n1, no wonder the puzzle was unsolveable. And it's much easier to catch the scum team when you already know who your own team is. Moreover because he was scum I wouldn't be surprised if he named those 3 rather randomly instead of actually reading the thread

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 13:25 GMT

#2607

For future reference don't ever claim VT unless you are being lynched and don't ever out blues, no matter how obvious. My last check was going to be grackaroni until you did that

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 16:01 GMT

#2613

On January 22 2012 00:50 Bluelightz wrote:
People hate me in the QT

No one hates you, just the way you played in this game was just frustrating as it didn't seem like you were putting much effort into the game and what you posted didn't make it particularly easy (though I did have a slight town read on you) to determine your alignment. Still, you weren't the only one.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 17:26 GMT

#2620

Layabout: you don't know erandorr like I do, the switch wasn't that bad

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 17:53 GMT

#2627

RoL still insists that he thought the plan favors angels AND town, so if that is truly his take on it, it's a null tell

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 17:58 GMT

#2631

On January 22 2012 02:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@Syllo
Who did you attempt to investigate each night?

(Zona usually releases all the actions, but I am impatient!)

N1: I sent in Jackal first but then switched to Tyrran
N2: Tyrran
N3: Grackaroni but switched to Zephirdd when he made that post in which he called me seer. Basically because I knew I was going to die unless HoD really was the angel of death and zephirdd was the third angel

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 19:00 GMT

#2643

No, you were lynched because you were an anti-town player with no intention of helping town even when you were in danger of being lynched for the second day in a row. Your defense and the few stances that we forced out of you were inconsistent, nonsensical and overall suspicious. Feel free to keep pretending otherwise, but that is a fact

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 19:09 GMT

#2649

I have already admitted that I didn't play well in this game, but those two things aren't mutually exclusive

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 19:52 GMT

#2657

I'm not going to waste more time on you as you are clearly not a very self aware person or someone who is interested in re-assessing your own play. Feel free to look at what you said about meta and tyrran to see just one of the things that made you look very suspicious. You also don't appear to understand that your lack of interest in the game alone makes you a good lynch.

Also, there were a lot of good observations made about all the scum, it's just that due to there being so many apathetic townies it was easy to get distracted and not pursue those leads instead.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 20:00 GMT

#2661

That post was especially bad considering what he had said about meta previously and besides that it makes no sense at all. He seems to be trying to match his steamship meta? Really?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 20:14 GMT

#2665

You made yourself immediately suspicious by a completely nonsensical and anti-town attack on bluelightz, which I noted and layabout built on that. He then also moved on to risk nuke so that's a pretty disingenuous description of the events.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 20:25 GMT

#2667

I don't give good people a free pass, I just consider it optimal play not to lynch good players on day 1 unless there are no alternative lynches of similar quality. In the long run this should be better play. I will adjust based on the player pool, so if the game has a bunch of good players, it's much safer to go after one. It's not even just that, I like to keep players who I like playing with around, though this is obviously not a good excuse, but just another incentive.

Anyway, you wrote that wall of text and in the end reached the same conclusion I did

The reason for thinking RoL is scum, was that he spent the entire first day doing nothing but making excuses for not playing. Then, he comes into the thread, and instead of doing the most useful thing he could, and scumhunting, he instead pushes a plan that could be considered anti-town. However, the major point here, is that he spent all his effort into making and defending a plan, instead of finding scum. Then he spends all of day 2 making excuses and saying he'll scumhunt later.

This has little to do with the content of his plan

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

January 21 2012 20:49 GMT

#2670

Holding people to a higher standard is a nice thought but doesn't seem optimal play in a player pool where often a few players win games for town. Also I don't think your case against palmar was quite as strong as you think; palmar genuinely thought even after the game that it was weak, which is one of the reasons why he played like that in TL mafia L (no further discussion about that game, but he has already flipped in it so that's fine). Of course by the end of n1 I was completely certain that he was scum, so had I reached that level of certainty earlier, I would have been fine with lynching him.

I was only "against" lynching RoL on day 2 because when I woke up there was suddenly a new wagon on him, which at the time seemed strange given the events of day 1 and because I thought I had to see risk flip (scum...) to know how to proceed next. I said I found him scummy, but again we can only lynch one a day and the game had 6 scum. If risk and rol had both been scum, as seemed quite possible to me at the time, risk's lynch would have produced much more useful information.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

February 01 2012 06:32 GMT

#2707

Well obviously I "slipped" by the end of day 2, but that was on purpose. Moreover it was rather obvious that someone who hasn't been able to investigate was the seer by day 3. I don't think it was possible for me to avoid being suspicious of HoD given the way night actions went; while I didn't really have an issue with his posting until day 3, I just couldn't understand what angels were doing with their kills unless HoD was the angel of death. Them attempting to night kill an obvious demon on n1 with the angel of death role was so unlikely. There being so many players I'm unfamiliar with also complicated things.

And yes, I do take these games too seriously but that's better than the opposite. Thanks for the write-up

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