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On January 13 2012 09:07 Grackaroni wrote:
@Layabout: Do you really think that Bluelightz would only post bullshit posts as scum? I think it's just his general style to make posts to say he's reading the thread or that he is going to school/sleep and asking people to ask him questions.
Imagine he is scum this game. Do you think that he would act like this as town as well or is his scum play just worse than his not yet seen town play.
Public Service Announcement!
The bullshit law is being be renamed Layabout's Horseshit Hypothesis for two reasons:
1) I think horseshit sounds better if you try to speak like a posh Englishman
2) I am fond of Alliteration
3) Due to a complete absence of experimental data the bullshit scores need adjusting:
I think it would be best to multiply all current "Horseshit scores" by a factor of 0.6 so that single instances of bullshit have less of an impact on the overall % chance and then the % chance will better account for the natural increase in amount of Horseshit over time.
This adjustment would change BL's Horse-shit based % chance of flipping scum from 66% to (0.84x135x0.6)/35+135x0.6)x100
58%
I think you do not understand the Horseshit law Grack, maybe you should go think about it.
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There is a very significant chance that HoD is the AoD.
In order for him to not be then AoD must have targeted him, Syllogism or a twisted Demon/townie night 1.(or not targeted anyone)
Killing the AoD is an extremely desirable propect as it reduces Angel KP and prevents the loss of information from the no-flip.
Given that there is a case against HoD and given the high chance of the AoD lynch, everybody should be strongly considering lynching him.
I intend to explain my specific thoughts about his play in detail tomorrow morning (IRL).
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On January 13 2012 11:10 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 11:04 Refallen wrote:
That's retarded. After syllo posted his "I want to die", channeled should have taken the hint and roleblocked harbringer instead. Or maybe he had the same logic as me? At least this now confirms syllo as town. MrWiggles was town as well; He couldn't possibly be Demon(see his Palmar case). We just won't know if he was a blue or not. TBH that was a poor decision by the AoD, unless he had actually found an Angel and was ready to push him. His last actions were attacking RoL. Apply Occam's Razor(The correct solution is usually the simplest one), ##Vote RoL
What is poor about the decision to kill and experienced player that had already caught 1 scum this game?
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@Zephird
What specifically do you like about Grack's case on Spaackle?
Why do you think RoL is the best lynch bearing in mind that nearly every point made against him has been complete horseshit?
Why are you completely disregarding the fact that the night actions suggest that HoD being the AoD is not only the most likely but the simplest explanation?
I just think it's a waste of game mechanics; Killing someone who people didn't knew would create a bigger confusion, as in "we don't know how many demons live". MrWiggles was obviously not a Demon, so it is kind of a waste of a mechanic. Granted, we don't know if he was a blue, but I don't think it matters as much at this point
"not knowing how many demons live" - the ????-flip aspect ensures town do not KNOW how many demons live.
Do you not think that the function of killing power is to remove threats to angels and that while the ????-flip serves to deny information in addition to removing a threat the ????-flip is not the point of the kill. Threats include strong town players and players people think are likely town as they are more likely to listen to someone they think is town than someone they think is scum. Threats also include blue roles.
Can you think of any players that if killed and flipped ???? would leave sufficient confusion to justify the angels using their only reliable KP on, over a player that looked like a blue, demon or is strong at scumhunting?
Why do you think the goal of the kill is to cause confusion?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Now actually do something that will convince other people that spaackle is scum or unvote.
Every time i log on and every time i F5 i feel sad.
Can we please put EFFORT into this lynch and ensure that by the end of the day each candidate with a vote/votes has been discussed by all (even if there are just short BUT VALID criticisms) and there are clear outlined cases as to why people believe that player has a high chance of being an Angel/Demon.
We cannot afford to keep lynching townies.
We cannot afford to mindlessly follow poor/absent cases or continue to vote for people because players in the thread repeatedly shout that a Player is scum.
If you are present and see that nobody has written anything or that discussion has been dead for several hours, make an effort to produce useful discussion.
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On January 14 2012 06:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 00:52 Dirkzor wrote:
Jackal.. Have you forgotten me? I was so used to your devoted attention!
Assuming Wiggles was town, and i assume that, it puts more pressure on RoL. That was the last person that Wiggles talked about (and attacking me about). Combine that with a wall-of-text case that is actually not very big in terms of content I see RoL as more scummy then before he started scumhunting. His case is just not good, its just long so it appears to be good/solid. Long is not always better. This is such sound logic! I am going to kill one of my attackers further implicating me.
I thought he was just making a penis joke.
Speaking of Giant Dicks Do you really think that we should lynch Blazinghand if want to kill scum?
If you want a nice thread then sure.
But your case isn't very compelling, and it seems highly unlikely that you will get BH lynched.
So what are you going to do about the lynch?
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Unvote him!!!!
Or convince us that he is scum.
Or tell us who your scumbuddy/buddies are.
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Hod originally made this criticism:
Tyrran:
His post focus on why demons would try to save palmar. The goal of demons is not only to save themself, they also have to prevent angels to win. Banishing them is a good move in this regard as they have a high chance of reducing their KP ( as I stated before, any angel hit, be it town or demon,is actually bad for demon). Hod:
If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. Say a day starts with 1 corrupted town, 3 demons, and 3 angels. In this situation, demons win nearly 100% of the time. Given the fact that there are investigative roles and an anti-corruption role, demons are definitely not looking to drag this game out more than they have to so long as those roles are still alive.
I find this criticism to be fundamentally flawed. Because it is only valid if the demons are not trying to achieve their win condition.
To win;
The Demons need to kill 3 angels and the sage and the demon hunter.
Hod (in his defence of his original idea) basically argues that vanilla town dying helps the demons because they (+ corrupted town) need to make up half of the remaining players as well as achieving the other condition to win the game.
He says that killing vt reduces the total number of players and makes it easier to meet this condition.
This would be valid if not for the need for demons to also kill 2blues+angels because they cannot kill angels with anything other than the lynch, and lynching blue also aids their decision making as then can then know whether or not the blues are dead in a late-game scenario.They also would suffer if a demon were lynched.
Killing vanillas means that the remaining pool will contain more players with demon investigating/killing roles. Than it would had players with roles been killed instead.
It leaves the roles that could harm demons unharmed
Killing town makes corruption less likely to be successful too.
Killing vanillas is bad for demons.
The way in which HoD pushes the idea that it is good for demons, well... it's bad.
He uses an irrelevant hypothetical with 3 demons 3 angels and 1 corrupted town, (i wrote 3d/2a/1ct earlier and he quoted that and just ignored my argument, I found this distasteful) to argue that no vanillas are good for Demons because demons generally win in that hypothetical. The hypothetical also relies on no blues and no lynches or kills on any demons or angels (and cannot possibly occur this game). How can this be of any value??
He uses this ultraspecificandimpossibleinthisgame hypothetical to talk about the merits of a Vanilla town lynch in general.
He does not evaluate the general case or compare the consequences of a vanilla town lynch to another role being lynched.
On January 13 2012 05:22 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 04:52 layabout wrote:On January 13 2012 04:21 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On January 13 2012 03:41 layabout wrote:On January 13 2012 03:34 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:His post focus on why demons would try to save palmar. The goal of demons is not only to save themself, they also have to prevent angels to win. Banishing them is a good move in this regard as they have a high chance of reducing their KP ( as I stated before, any angel hit, be it town or demon,is actually bad for demon). If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. Say a day starts with 1 corrupted town, 3 demons, and 3 angels. In this situation, demons win nearly 100% of the time. Given the fact that there are investigative roles and an anti-corruption role, demons are definitely not looking to drag this game out more than they have to so long as those roles are still alive. What in the fuck? What? He said an angel hit on a townie was bad for demons, and that is absolutely false. If demons get down to that scenario, they lynch an angel, 2/3 chance they remove a potential kp and win automatically. Then 1/3 chance they get the observer, then angels need to get both hits through the twisting/sending to purgatory, so they need to hit the only 2 unprotected of the 4. So 1/18 total chance of angel win if it gets down to that scenario, and that is assuming they know which one is town out of the 4. Lower if they don't. So if angels hit nothing but town, which he claims is bad for demons, the demons will very likely win. Hell, even if they don't have a corrupted town left alive and it is a regular vt, town gets a minor victory by killing all angels, so it would be the same result anyway unless the townie decides to ignore that minor win condition. Why on earth do you base your decision of "does killing town benefit demons?" on an unrealistic (and in this game impossible) extreme scenario in which there are 3 demons 1 corrupted town and 2 angels left in the game? In order for them to make use of the corrupted town mechanic demons need to corrupt town players. They need these players to be alive to count towards their win condition. All three angels and the sage are immune to corruption. Plus the demons cannot corrupt themselves. The demons get 1 corruption every two nights. As it currently stands: there are 13 non-demons out of 15 players. 9/13 can be corrupted. 3 blues 6 vanillas. it is likely that several of these players will not still be alive by night 4 (the demons next corruption). Killing vanilla town weakens the power of corruption drastically. It reduces the number of players that can be corrupted increasing the chance of is missing. And it increases the proportion of blues and Angels in the player base which increases the chance that demons will be investigated or killed. Demons need to kill 2/4 blues and 3/3 angels and gain a majority with corruption, killing vanilla town is a bad lynch from the demons perspective only a demon or the seer flipping is worse for them. (the value of a channeller lynch for them could be argued either way as the channeller keeps players alive but could stop a corruption). 3 demons, 1 town, 3 angels, not 2 angels. Unrealistic, yes. But just proving the point that demons don't mind townies being dead. Also shows that even if they don't get angels killed early on, as long as they stay alive any death brings them closer to winning. Nowhere does it say if the hit/lynch is on vanilla town - just on town in general, but if you think their corruption being slightly more likely to fail is their primary concern, I think you are quite mistaken. The longer this game goes on with the demon hunter and sage alive, the more likely they are to lose, regardless of their ability to corrupt. They can't kill those people themselves, so they either need to mislynch them, or hope the angels hit them. Assuming the angels use their acolyte to try to kill people with dark powers, which I assure you they will, the proportion of blues will go down, not up. Yes, the sage can't be killed with that, but he can be killed by the AoD, and I doubt the demons would mind the demon hunter or channeler ending up dead. You stress they need those players alive to count for their win condition, which is true, but you ignore the other half of their win condition. They/their corrupted minions need to outnumber the remaining players in the game. So they want the number of remaining players to be as small as possible. tl;dr: Holy fuck they don't need to corrupt anyone to win this game, and they want to survive while everyone else dies, not make this game last a bajillion days.
Show nested quote +Secondly : Wtf if this tl:dr ? Demons should win without using corrupt ? Are you going to argue next that Angels should win wihtout killing anyone ? I look forward to you hosting a normal game where scum has no KP and town has vigs because " well scum can just survive while everyone else dies". I said don't need to, as in it is possible for them to win without it, not should. Don't twist my words.
Saying that the demons don't need to use corruption to win because it is possible for them to win without using it suggests a way of thinking that is bizarre.
By this logic in a standard game scum do not need to use their shots or roleblocks in order to win the game. They simply need to convince town that they should be lynching other townies and then win once town kills themselves with their guidance...
...ohwaitno that is total horseshit
The game has mechanics such as Night kills hidden flips, corruption, investigation's and an "open" set-up is in order to balance it.
The fact that is is possible to win without making full use of the mechanics has no bearing on the fact that the game is balanced around you using them. It accounts for you occasionally missing (with any of them) but rewards you for selecting targets with skill.
You have pushed the ideas that the demon team would not wish to use their abilities/role/powers/mechanics to their advantage and that is disgusting.
So what was the original purpose of his original criticism?
It was to defend himself against This post (clicky), in particular it was about tyrran calling HoD out for bullshit.
He responded with logically unsound reasoning and false conclusions.
He defends himself against Bullshit with bullshit.
And that is what he spent most of day 2 doing.
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Current Vote Count:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 15:42 ZBot wrote:
Vote count for the Day 3 Lynch.
With 13 alive, 7 votes are required to lynch.
Current votes:
HarbingerOfDoom (3): Tyrran, syllogism, layabout
RebirthOfLeGenD (2): Grackaroni, Zephirdd, Blazinghand, -Zephirdd
Spaackle (1): Zephirdd
Bluelightz (1): Jackal58
Blazinghand (1): RebirthOfLeGenD
The Day 3 deadline is at January 15 2012 10:00 KST. (That's approximately 1 day, 1:48:45 from now.)
Vote HarbingerOfDoom
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Zephird i had another look though his filter and i don't see what Spackle has done that is so scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2012 11:07 Spaackle wrote:So, the experienced player obviously know how to play town (duh, they're experienced). They know how to be as helpful to the town as possible. Taking from Ver's guide(?) to town play: Link here (clicky)+ Show Spoiler +There are three main goals for the town on day 1 in a standard game:
1) Get useful information (often achieved via point 2)
2) Create an ideal atmosphere (will go over this in detail in town guide)
3) Figure out your plans/direction
The obvious way to analyze the situation would be to take the current players in suspicion and see if they are trying to achieve the above goals.: risk.nuke: Filter (clicky)1) Get Information -- I hate to make a meta argument, but I feel like it's necessary here. When I played with risk in Election, he spent much of Day 1 jabbing at other players and trying to squeeze info out of them. I feel like he isn't doing this so much now. Many of his posts have been reactions to the poking of others, and he's offered little analysis of his own. His play in this regard doesn't look very towney to me. 2) Create an atmosphere -- This goal is linked with the previous one. The best atmosphere for town is one where they can get as much information as possible. I feel like risk is falling short here too. He hasn't been offering many points for discussion, and his reactionary posting has most other townies snapping at him. 3) Figure out plans -- This is a tough one. There really haven't been any plans put forth by anyone, just some bandwagons and a lot of finger pointing. risk has been doing just about as much of this as everyone else. Risk's play is looking a bit scummy to me. He hasn't been offering much solid analysis, and he fans the flames of the arguments in the thread. We definitely need to pressure him some more tomorrow. More coming soon! here spaackle ADDS to the criticism against risk. nuke by seeing how his play fits the town objectives for day1 outlined in Ver's guide. He judges him based upon a measure of what general town goals are and how risk.nuke was not playing towards them. That is one of the least bullcrap evaluations in the entire thread. He then does the same for Palmar. He gets the alignments wrong on both acoounts. But his reasoning is coherent. On January 09 2012 05:29 Spaackle wrote:@RofL While I agree that we need a plan for day 2, yours is not the one I would go with. Mass claiming like that will only paint a target on our blues for the scumteams. We'll lose our blue powers so fast that we'll get almost no use out of them, and where will we be then? @risk Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 04:50 risk.nuke wrote:On January 09 2012 04:32 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Dirkzor wrote:On January 09 2012 04:06 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:
yeah, this needs to be done now, or not. I'd rather go with not. This is palmar scum claiming. He has been trolling for a while now but this is as close at is gets If I had written that would you take that as scum claiming? No, but you aren't a player who I talk extensively about the game, in and out of the game. It's extremely unlikely that he would say that as town and I'm pretty sure that when he wrote that he knew very well how it would look like to me; he has by this point realized that there is little he can do to avoid being lynched so might as well have some fun. Imo a town Palmar would respond to that with a pretty huge post declaring why the plan is dumb alternativly if he approved of the plan he would write additional thoughts or/and reason further why it is a good plan. I thought you hated meta arguments? Calls out a contradiction. On January 09 2012 05:51 Spaackle wrote:
@Jackal Hypothetically, let's say I'm a complete noob and I don't know how to play this game. Explain to me: why is it obvious? Could you please give a little bit more reasoning, even if it is things that others have already pointed out? Prods Jackal for reasoning On January 10 2012 13:02 Spaackle wrote:
I'm with you on this one, BH. At first I thought that the RoL plan was merely just an ill-thought out plan, but after your and Mr Wiggles' arguments against it, now I see that the RoL plan isn't just bad, but that it seems to be intentionally anti-town. I want to see a defense from RoL, but until then:
##vote RebirthOfLegend He decides to vote for RoL after reading the BS from BH. He states that he wants to see RoL defence and will leave the vote until then. Presumably he will look at the defence RoL makes and decide whether or not the case holds weight. On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke Decides that RoL effort in defending the plan makes his suggesting of the plan not a scummy thing to do. Reverts to old read: Null On January 11 2012 14:47 Spaackle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 14:40 Blazinghand wrote:On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke What? Are you listening to yourself? If he were scum he'd cling to it since it's the only thing he's done all game besides lurk and fail to vote Erandorr properly. If he were town, he'd believe in his plan so he'd defend it anyways. RoL of any alignment will defend his plan. RoL isn't null, he's anti-useful and I have no idea why you'd unvote him at this time. Give me some time to read the thread. I'm inviting because I think RoL may not be the best lynch right now, and I'm going through the filters of the other main suspects. If I think that they are better lynches, I'll vote them, and if they're not, my vote comes back to RoL. Even if I don't vote him, I still think he'd be a good target for our Demon Hunter. Now back to reading. Says that he will unvote because he thinks a RoL lynch may not be the best one. Says he will vote him IF after he fliters the other subjects he decide that RoL is the best lynch. Thinks he might be a good target for a demon hunter. Whilst you might then conclude that Null is probably not his exactly read, you should be able to see how these post fit together and are consistent with him re-evaluating his thoughts as new information arises. On January 11 2012 15:51 Spaackle wrote:So, after reading through Tyrran's thread, he's starring to look pretty scummy to me. He's posted much less than most others in this game, and his posts are long and full of fluff. He seems to spend a lot of time trying to tell other players how to play when he could be giving analysis or answering questions. He also contradicts himself a few times. Posts that really stand out to me: + Show Spoiler +What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished.
Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him.
Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. And Okay, i misread and missed the color only claim part. My bad, gotta go back some new googles.
Your plan is therefore much better than i initially thougth. I still have an issue with how you are going to deal with corruption. Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. On one hand you say that corrupted town should claim, but on the other hand you also advise multiple claim. What does town gain form multiple corruption claim ? While i agree that this migth confuse scum, If the angels are in doubt on how to get rid of corrupted townies, how are we going to know how to deal with it ? These posts are a glaring contradictions to each other. Tyrran points out several large flaws in RoL's plan. However, when RoL clears up the color claim issue, suddenly these flaws aren't so bad anymore. To me this represents a bit of wishy-washiness on Tyrran's part. He's very opposed to RoL's plan one minute, then thinks it's not too bad the next. There's Also this bit: Show nested quote +Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. By we, does Tyrran mean town? Or is there some special we only him and RoL know about? This post caught my eye too: Show nested quote +Well I dont see how this could have gone better :D. One demon dead ( GJ DemonHunter or Angel Acolyte, whoever got him) and no unrevealed death. Perfect N1 for town. Here are some initial thought about what happened N1 :
On January 09 2012 12:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that.
Agreed. Syllo was one of the most valuable town assets day 1, channeler sending him to purgatory was the best and obvious move. Palmar maybe thougth you were AoD, and/or DemonHunter. He also maybe tried to protect you.
The fact that there were no ???? flip leaves us with 4 probability:
AoD targeted Syllo. This is unlikely. It was clear in the thread that the banish was going to be used defensively, and Syllogism was one of the most obvious target. I' not sure why angels would target him other than them being bad.
AoD targeted HarbingerOfDoom. This is a possibility. I'm not sure why they would choose him over BH, Wiggles, layabout tho
Syllo is the AoD. This is unlikely, he has been very active for town during day 1. Yet, we cannot ignore this possibility. I dont want him lynched today, but if he is banished again N2, and once again the AoD do not kill, then we will have to consider him as a lynch.
HoD is the AoD. This is a possibility too, but i'm not sure about it. I'll try to find some time to read his filter today.
Questions to discuss day 2 :
What do you guys think of Syllo and HoD ? Are they summy too you. Do you think they were liekly target for the AoD?
With no ???? flip, RoL plan could still be put into motion. What do you think about it? this is one of theposts that I really think paints Tyrran as a scum. He starts by congratulating the DH for the kill, then starts listing possibilities. His possibilities state what could have happened, but Tyrran doesnt really ever state what he thinks happened. Just "well maybe this or that." This noncommittal post also really highlights just how wishy-washy Tyrran has been this whole game. Tyrran, wha do you have to say for yourself? If he is to be believed then Spaackel jsut finished reading the thread of the main suspects. He presents things Tyrran have done, explain why he finds them scummy and asks for answers to his points. What is wrong with this? On January 12 2012 02:55 Spaackle wrote:
@Zeph I unvoted RoL because I thought there might be a better lynch than him. I posted my reads on Tyrran last night, and was going to do the same for risk today, but you guys hammered the lunch during my morning classes. I Would have voted risk, but I wanted to do a thorough analysis of his posts before I put the last nail in his coffin. You guys beat me to the punch.
The fact that risk flipped town is problematic. It brings us no closer to finding the rest of the scum. However, risk is still the best option for yesterday, IMO.
Tonight, DH should hit either Tyrran or RoL. Explains his unvoting to zeph. Says that risk was the best lynch. He hadn't analysed risk on day 2 but he did write: On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke And the day was cut short. He also found risk scummy when he joined late in day1. These actions all seem fine. On January 13 2012 08:23 Spaackle wrote:
I've been asked to do some reads, so here goes:
Tyrran: I've already made an analysis on him see that for my main reasoning. I think he looks pretty scummy, even though he's started posting a bit more as of late.
RoL: he's basically invisible for the first day, then during night one he comes up with a plan to mass claim. His plan is torn to shreds by everyone else while he quietly slips back into the shadows, reemerging only to defend his plan but not to do much of anything else. His lurkiness combined with his lack of contribution makes me think that he is a scum. Between him and Tyrran, I'd probably lynch RoL first.
Grack and cwave look a little scummy to me, seeing as they've both lurked a bit and not posted too much of actual value. However, there's much bigger fish to fry than them.
He then makes this post and then you and BH call him scummy.
you posted this:
On January 10 2012 02:27 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 11:22 Spaackle wrote:Well, now that we know that Palmar is scum, we should take a look at a post the he made earlier: On January 09 2012 06:41 Palmar wrote:
And when those two flip, kill risk.nuke, tyrran too. Probably bluelightz, and then find the last one. HoD is a possibility, so is Refallen, maybe Grackaroni...
Blazinghand, Cwave, Dirkzor, layabout, RebirthOfLeGenD, Spaackle, Zephirdd and Mr. Wiggles are town.
I'll bet we find Palmar's scumbuddies in the list of the people that he declared as townies. Yeah, there may be Palmar's scumbuddies there. Let's see, we got Cwave, Dirkzor, RoL... OH HAI SPAACKLE. Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 11:30 Spaackle wrote:Palmar:Filter (clicky)1) Get Information -- Palmar has been pretty active in this goal. He's been putting forth a lots of questions (even if no one answers them). He also pressured Bluelightz for a good while, trying to get an actual response out of him. He's also been putting lots of pressure on Wiggles, but this was mostly in response to Wiggles' accusation of him. I'd like to see a bit more justification out of him though. 2) Create an Atmosphere -- Palmar has been acting pretty town here too. He's been answering questions, and in turn posing many more. His posting hasn't been very reactionary, and for the most part, he's been trying to keep the town discussing relevant subjects. 3) Figure out Plans -- As I said in the risk.nuke analysis, there's hasn't been much of this in this game. Palmar is one of the closest to actually doing this. He's been trying to keep discussion relevant, and I guess this eventually leads to plans. Palmar is looking like a townie to me, but don't stop watching him. Yup, definitely townie, with green color! No, there is not enough info for pushing a lynch, but I'd like people to keep an eye on him. Also Tyrran, his posts are weird for me.
as for flips, people said already the possibilities, but I don't think the AoD in on the list(syllo/HoD); most likely he targetted one of them. Question is which one was saved by a demon and which one was saved by town. Question: Why was HoD jailed? We can explain syllo - he is strong as town and it's possible that our jailer targeted him since he is a likely n1 shot. But what would be Town motivation to jail HoD? Does he have a history of great town play(like syllo)? If you can't find a reasonable answer for that question, what are the odds that HoD was a demon, or that HoD was targetted by Palmar in order to make people look at him(ie. jailing to bring suspicion)?
Finally, I don't get the Cwave/Dirkzor thing. If someone could kindly summarize it for me, I'd appreciate it. Funny that they are on Palmar's "Town" list. Yes, I know I am on that list as well, but that's just because I was this close to sucking him yesterday after his case. That was due to the XLVIII fiasco and I told myself "listen to veterans you know". I swear I'd probably end up helping demons this game, had Palmar not died.
which calls spaackle scum for no reason.
Then:
On January 10 2012 13:18 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:02 Spaackle wrote:
I'm with you on this one, BH. At first I thought that the RoL plan was merely just an ill-thought out plan, but after your and Mr Wiggles' arguments against it, now I see that the RoL plan isn't just bad, but that it seems to be intentionally anti-town. I want to see a defense from RoL, but until then:
##vote RebirthOfLegend If you honestly truly believe that this is a town post, I feel sorry for you. I said it before, and I think Spaackle is Palmar's buddy. If RoL flips Angel, you know what to do.
You then post this.
So after providing no new content about him you are suddenly so convinced that Spaackle is scum taht you "feel sorry" for another player because they do not think he is scum too?
I think you are calling him scum so that you can later pretend that you have a case on him.
you say that grackaroni's analysis has swayed you but in it
On January 13 2012 07:55 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 12:05 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@Grackaroni, Spaackle, Cwave
I would like to hear a couple scum reads from each of you, along with brief explanations.
@Jackal
Zbot can count votes from a thread, not sure why Zona chose to use PM's for voting for this game (maybe because of the corrupted town deal?), but so be it. That thing is still fucking cool. I think that RoL is scummy, and I've already explained a bit on him earlier. He is putting a lot of time into the game but not in scumhunting but instead in making an anti-town plan. Spaackle is also probably scum. Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 11:30 Spaackle wrote:Palmar:Filter (clicky)1) Get Information -- Palmar has been pretty active in this goal. He's been putting forth a lots of questions (even if no one answers them). He also pressured Bluelightz for a good while, trying to get an actual response out of him. He's also been putting lots of pressure on Wiggles, but this was mostly in response to Wiggles' accusation of him. I'd like to see a bit more justification out of him though. 2) Create an Atmosphere -- Palmar has been acting pretty town here too. He's been answering questions, and in turn posing many more. His posting hasn't been very reactionary, and for the most part, he's been trying to keep the town discussing relevant subjects. 3) Figure out Plans -- As I said in the risk.nuke analysis, there's hasn't been much of this in this game. Palmar is one of the closest to actually doing this. He's been trying to keep discussion relevant, and I guess this eventually leads to plans. Palmar is looking like a townie to me, but don't stop watching him. His way of coming to the conclusion that Palmar is town looks suspect to me. He says he hasn't been very reactionary but Palmar only showed up when a case was made against him by Wiggles. His pressure on bluelightz was just a way of pretending to be participating. I just don't know how you could confidently jump to the conclusion that Palmar is town from the information he was giving. He also shows a lot of wishy-washyness during the RoL lynch. And of course he is lurking.
he cites "wishy-washyness" during the RoL lynch.
I think i have shown why he really wasn't wishy-washy.
He calls him scum for concluding Palmar is scummy by using Ver's guide as the basis for his thoughts.
Gracks case smells like the manure of a certain well-endowed animal to me..
To date nearly every accusation against spaackle holds little-to-no weight. What has been said against him seems like Forced Analysis by people that have no interest in hunting actual scum.
@everyone, do you think that there is a substantial case for Spaackle being scum that as of this post?
Do you think that he is a good/bad candidate?
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He says he hasn't been very reactionary but Palmar only showed up when a case was made against him by Wiggles. His pressure on bluelightz was just a way of pretending to be participating. I just don't know how you could confidently jump to the conclusion that Palmar is town from the information he was giving.
The bolded is something that you have concluded and is not a verifiable fact
The underlined is simply a result of the fact that you do not think in the exact same way and that the actions are open to interpretation.
Spaackle interpreted the same actions (Palmars posting) as unreactionary.
How can that be the basis for the case again him?
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On January 14 2012 09:23 Zephirdd wrote:The first time I actually call him a scum is right after he makes a post calling Palmar green, RIGHT when people were calling him scum. I specifically said "Palmar/Spaackle scumbuddies". http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=43#849Reading his analysis to why Palmar is green, he actually forces a green read on him instead of getting the essence of what Palmar had done. MrWiggles had just shown good reasoning to why Palmar would be red, but he basically ignores that reasoning. He then proceeds to lurk. Also, regarding this quote by Spaackle: Show nested quote +I'm with you on this one, BH. At first I thought that the RoL plan was merely just an ill-thought out plan, but after your and Mr Wiggles' arguments against it, now I see that the RoL plan isn't just bad, but that it seems to be intentionally anti-town. I want to see a defense from RoL, but until then:
##vote RebirthOfLegend I've been scum once, and I admit it is low experience, but I swear this was Steamship Liquida and this was my post when I read it. "At first I thought he was town, but after the arguments of the loud mouth and a good player, I have to put a vote on him to look good". Doesn't helps that his reasoning(that the plan is anti-town) isn't the best either, as explained a few times by other people when counter-argumenting BH. He just follows the one argument BH uses the most and uses it as a reasoning to jump on a low-level wagon, thus "disappearing". He isn't wishy-washy at RoL's case, he is generally wishy-washy. Let me be clear tho; I don't like to create new cases even though I'm willing to take responsibility for it. Reason is simple: 100% of cases I have made by myself were wrong. AKA. I don't trust myself.
Do you actually think any of that justifies a spaackle vote compared to any of the other players with votes on them?
Get off spaackle and vote for a case that stands a chance of killing the AoD.
Vote HoD
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GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ARSES
/unignore
Blazinghand... i have
... a need for your skills
There has been an influx of bullshit in the thread and i am struggling to keep track of it.
This bullshit threatens to destroy reason, logic and towns chance of winning
You seem to have an awful lot of free time on your hands, but you could put it to better use.
A giant dick once told me that you study physics.
And so i ask you this:
Can you begin recording the Horseshit scores for the entire thread and calculating their corresponding Bullshit-based chance of flipping scum?
We need to cut down on the bullshit.
Help me Blazinghand! You are my only hope..
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nobody covers you because that task would be cruel.
I will take the top half of posters
Blazinghand
Bluelightz
Dirkzor
Grackaroni
HarbingerOfDoom
Jackal58
layabout
RebirthOfLeGenD
Refallen
syllogism
Tyrran
Spaackle
Zephirdd
You take the bottom
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On January 14 2012 09:46 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:46 Blazinghand wrote:On January 14 2012 09:43 layabout wrote:
GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ARSES
/unignore
Blazinghand... i have
... a need for your skills
There has been an influx of bullshit in the thread and i am struggling to keep track of it.
This bullshit threatens to destroy reason, logic and towns chance of winning
You seem to have an awful lot of free time on your hands, but you could put it to better use.
A giant dick once told me that you study physics.
And so i ask you this:
Can you begin recording the Horseshit scores for the entire thread and calculating their corresponding Bullshit-based chance of flipping scum?
We need to cut down on the bullshit.
Help me Blazinghand! You are my only hope.. Are we gonna be dividing this up by posters or by pages or what PS. am I a head-asser? (since my vote is on RoL)
I think that you have shown that as far as you are concerned what other people say doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
So you might as well decide for yourself.
remember old bullshit scores must by multiplied by 0.6 so +5 would become +3 and +10 would become +6
in the updated calculations.
(that is not meant to be patronising)
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@Grackaroni I also have more that i will post tomorrow about HoD
+ I think that Tyrran's points have not been refuted
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Hey! You can't argue with hot steaming pile of horseshit!
It will prove itself.
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I think that hammering risk.nuke murdered the town atmosphere and so we should delay the lynch.
+ we shouldn't lynch while players are asleep and not aware of what is happening.
(BL left when HoD had 1 or 2 votes)
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yes but delay!
we should let everybody have a chance to provide their thoughts on the matter.
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Nothing about HoD defence suggests to me that he is town.
But banishing him allows us to determine whether he is the AoD.
(it is improbable that he would be banished, the AoD would be somebody else, and they would then miss).
The important thing for now is where is RoL?
Since there appear to be no other candidates are we left to vote RoL by default?
Should we really be voting to kill RoL?
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EPT
