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On January 08 2012 21:52 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:15 risk.nuke wrote:
layabout is probably a townie, Question Palmar and Dirkzor, Erandorr and Jackal are red. Banish syllo/wiggles tonight, see you. Hey risk, since you are alive, could you please devellop on this. Whats makes your think Dirkzor and Jackal are red ? Also, Syllogism, what is your stance about risk.nuke, and why? You basically saved him last night, do you think he is town or not ?
No, how about you tell me your stance. I've explained my stance and you can check my filter to know, but apparently you don't care. I wonder why
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On January 08 2012 21:55 Dirkzor wrote:
I might be stupid... but with a 2 team setup they could both _not_ be on your team. I can just not find any real reason for you to switch unless risk's defence convinced you or Erandorr did something to enhance his case. Neither of which happened.
I realized you have pointed towards risk the whole day and criticized his first post. It only enhanced my question: Why the change?
Again you aren't approaching the situation correctly and not reading my posts. I had made it quite clear all day long that I was fine with lynching both. Now if you assume I'm scum but risk isn't on my team, what was the motivation for "pushing" (note that I wasn't the only one, you are focusing on the wrong person) for the switch? It can only attract suspicion, there is literally no rational motivation except a townie one; that is to say I considered him a bit more likely to flip scum. I was wrong, but it happens and I can assure you most good players who know erandorr and knew what I knew would have pushed to lynch him.
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Consider the setup for a second. There are two scum teams and if they had been members of two different teams as looked likely to me at the time, such a switch would likely help establish connections. Scum are much less likely to bus or sacrifice team mates in this setup when presented with a viable alternative. It was probably a bad decision, but it was a decision that made more sense in this setup than in a normal one
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I think some of the blues are too strong for that to be a good idea. As long as claims aren't blindly trusted later on, mass claiming is the inferior strategy. Both angel roles would likely shoot into blues tonight and I don't think the demons have a big incentive to do anything about that; the demon hunter in particular is a too big threat to them. The loss of information doesn't mean no claim can be trusted, it just means you actually have to analyze the player and see if the claim makes sense. Depending on what scum roles we lynch first and who/what angels kill, the roles may be necessary for town to win.
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On January 09 2012 01:28 layabout wrote:
@syllogism do you think it would be appropriate to reference our pms during student mafia about suggesting plans?
It's fine, but I don't personally think what was said is relevant here, if I understand correctly what you are referring to.
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On January 09 2012 01:44 layabout wrote:
I was just going to quote what you put in the one dated 12/15/11 04:23
does RoL typically suggest plans and does anybody have links to previous ones?
I spent ages in risk.nukes filters yesterday and i don't have the time to do more today.
For the record while the discussion we are having here is innocent, this kind of references to information that only we are privy to might violate the spirit of the game. Regardless I don't think it's something that people expect from him, I certainly don't, and I'm not sure if his plan being bad is indicative of much. If you want to make a case against him, it's probably better to limit your analysis to the plan itself rather than the fact that the plan is bad due to him doing it only because it was expected from him. Risk, palmar and probably tyrran should be the focus of the attention tomorrow, however.
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On January 09 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:
yeah, this needs to be done now, or not. I'd rather go with not.
This is palmar scum claiming. He has been trolling for a while now but this is as close at is gets
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You are still pretending that the case against risk was purely meta and it most certainly was not. You are repeating the same misrepresentations that risk used, making you look worse. Moreover the case against Erandorr was pure meta and you were fine with voting for him based on just that. A lot of things were even said about risk.nuke since you made that post. What do you think about him now?
Anyway, we will certainly want to see risk flip first and you have a chance to step up regardless, but I do believe your stance regarding risk nuke has been suspicious
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On January 09 2012 04:18 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 04:06 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:
yeah, this needs to be done now, or not. I'd rather go with not. This is palmar scum claiming. He has been trolling for a while now but this is as close at is gets If I had written that would you take that as scum claiming?
No, but you aren't a player who I talk extensively about the game, in and out of the game. It's extremely unlikely that he would say that as town and I'm pretty sure that when he wrote that he knew very well how it would look like to me; he has by this point realized that there is little he can do to avoid being lynched so might as well have some fun.
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On January 09 2012 04:45 Dirkzor wrote:
See, all i have is your word for it.
But i guess we can lynch him and if he flips town we lynch you...
I don't really care at all if you take my word on it or not; there is a good case against him anyway and that comment was more addressed to Palmar.
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It's stupid because I'm not stupid and wouldn't lie for no reason. Palmar was already on everybody's radar, has a good case made against him and I likely could even have gotten him lynched today, but rather opted for the "safer option" which may have been a mistake. So what is the rational scum motivation for lying in this situation? There is none.
Notice how palmar has basically stopped talking to me. I can assure you that he is completely certain that I'm town (and not only because he is scum) and yet doesn't care about cooperating with me. Even if you don't know about our appreciation for each other's play, just the fact we played as a hydra in Election mafia should be ample evidence of that. It's of course always possible to wrong, even when making definitive statements.
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Only one mafia team can "safely" fake claim and angels have no means of protecting themselves from seer checks or even the demon hunter, which functions pretty much like a DT if the target doesn't die. If an angel fake claims some blue role, they also open themselves to demons constantly role blocking them with demonic courier, so pretty much only the angelic observer can claim until that role is dead.
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We aren't mass claiming and regardless of how good you think your plan is, you shouldn't try to get people to claim individually as that's just awful.
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I'm pretty sure palmar sent HoD to purgatory because he thought he was likely an angel. We of course can't draw any conclusions from that, but as noted before HoD's play has been somewhat suspicious so far. Anyway, either the angel of death attempted to hit me or the angel is HoD (or both!)
It's also fairly likely that Palmar was a demon hunter hit because demon Demonic Twister's power protects against slay/stalk but not against demon hunter. Palmar had an important role, so it's somewhat likely that they would use it on him. I'm not sure if the twister can use the ability on himself, but right considering Palmar was by far attracting the most attention, that might change things depending on who the twister is. The only reason why it matters who hit Palmar is because the other possibility is that the demon hunter hit an angel who did not die, in which case we could discuss whether him claiming would be worthwhile. Probably not and his likely target would be risk nuke anyway.
Risk.nuke still looks like the best lynch. The case against him still stands and quite a few people were against his lynch without adequately explaining why. They obviously can't all be his team mates, but it's hard to believe there would be that many townies unwilling to lynch him in that situation and be perfectly fine with lynching erandorr. His behaviour hasn't improved at all and that vt claim right before day post doesn't seem like something a townie would do.
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I'm more interested in what you think of risk.nuke right now
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On January 10 2012 00:52 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 00:15 syllogism wrote:
I'm more interested in what you think of risk.nuke right now And what do you think of Dirkzor?
Early on he was somewhat calling out palmar and was willing to lynch risk. While later his position on Palmar shifted, he did it manner that doesn't appear scummy especially due to the fact that if Palmar was on his team, he almost certainly would have told him that it's a bad idea. He was also willing to push me, which is also something that I think a team mate of palmar would be less likely to do in that situation. He could act like that as scum and some of his assertions don't make sense, but I don't think he is a good lynch today. Even if he is a team mate of palmar, which I consider unlikely right now, we shouldn't lynch a demon tonight. Demon hunter and angels can both kill demons, they are a man and an important role down. I'm fairly convinced that we need to see risk flip.
By the way demons it is in your best interest to let us see that flip, because if he flips an angel, we will be able to go after the remainder of his team, instead of being forced to focus on more general scum hunting.
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It's possible that I'm tunnelling risk nuke, perhaps I will re-evaluate. The thing is that either they shot me (likely meaning that I was on to one or some of them) or HoD is the angel of death. There are some other unlikely scenarios, but those are the ones that most make sense. Risk/HoD have some interaction that makes it a bit less likely that they are team mates than I initially thought.
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Risk: Do you think HoD or Tyrran would be a better lynch today? You need to do something if you don't want to be lynched today
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On January 10 2012 01:32 Cwave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 20:57 syllogism wrote:
So I guess Palmar you are on the other scum team after all? Would explain why you weren't really that keen on Erandorr lynch; you knew he wasn't on your team and that one of the two was thus likely town. Could have at least warned me Syllogism. Im trying to look for the context in the thread before this post but it seems to me you are referring to Palmar as being in the "other scum" team, implicating you are in a "scum team" aswell? Do you mean Risk.nuke has high potential for being an Angel(seeing as Palmar flipped Demon) or did you slip here and write from your own perspective? Being a scum team and seeing as Palmar flipped Demon, making you an Angel? Or am i not reading this right?
Palmar was in the end quite willing to lynch risk. I think he would have went after Erandorr earlier if risk was on his team. So yes that means if risk is scum, he is very likely an angel.
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Are you even reading the thread? Read the last few pages and come back
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EPT
