EPTResponsibility Mafia! - Page 5
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On December 22 2011 06:33 L wrote: Sorry, got caught up with Palmar. Here's the list: 1. Foolishness -- Actively Hiding, but he's stuck his neck out a few times. Not sure yet. 2. RebirthOfLeGenD -- Quiet 3 .wherebugsgo -- Aggressive and Questioning. 4. kitaman27 -- Aggressive post analysis, but I'm not sure how long you had that liquid sheth picture around. Undecided. 5. syllogism -- Actively Hiding. Leaning towards red. 6. SamuelLJackson (sandroba/curu hybrid) -- I have no idea how to read hydra posts, but he has content posts + early vote. Greenish as far as I can tell. 7. Jackal58 -- Very short posts but lots of questions. Probably trigger hitter. 8. Liquid`Sheth -- BLARING WARNING SIGNS. 9. GMarshal -- Not enough information. Starts off quiet, moves to medium content posts. Early vote. Goes quiet again. Seems like a busy townie. 10. L -- This is me. I am super cool. 11. Mr. Wiggles -- Huge content filled posts. Aggressive voting after building a case. Lots of questions. Probably a trigger hitter. 12. Palmar -- Should be obvious that I am leaning towards mafia on this one. 13. Chezinu -- Proposes a HYPER aggressive roleclaim early, but no one bit. I assume he's town but maybe 20% potential for traitor based on the risk involved. 14. chaoser -- Lots of questions. Large analysis posts. Aggressive early vote on me. Probably another trigger hitter. 15. bumatlarge -- Huge content filled posts designed to spur discussion and an early vote. Very town. 16. BloodyC0bbler -- Not enough posts. I'd really prefer that he posted more and he's one of the reasons I waited. 17. LSB -- Probably the toughest call in the game asides from Palmar. His posts appear large but they're short replies to large quoted text. Additionally, he's been called out before for 'trying really hard to not piss people off' which is a warning light in metric land. He does, however, vote early, but his case isn't very strong. I lean red on him. 18. GGQ -- One substantive post. Same as BC. 19. prplhz -- Short avoidant posts early. RNGs, votes Viscera. Also has a very solid attack post on GMarshal. Aggressiveness indicates town. Post structure indicates busy. 20. VisceraEyes -- Super town. I wanted to put filter links on the names, but I have no idea how to do that quickly. Also not putting additional information regarding roles other than trigger hitters, because DANG BRO, THATS NOT HELPFUL. Also, everyone that's blue isn't blue because they're legit; its possible mafia has trigger hitters. Anyways, go through the list and see what you think. Anyways, I'm now at 22 hours left for 4k words in my term essay, so I will be taking off at the speed of light (meowth, that's right). I'll pop in in a few hours to see what's up, but other than that I can't spare much more time today. So I already said how I am pretty sure the Chez/Meapak combo is town. Then we have to look at this. We see 2/3 mafia exposed on this list, he calls WBG town and syllogism *slightly* red. Then we have BumAtLarge and Kita as green, and unknown respectively. We can assume he probably wouldn't list half his team red this early in the game, but would still want to distance. In that we have the red Syllogism. WBG he avoided going into detail on and called him down with some flatlined reasoning, understandable. But what would he do with pick 3? I think he wanted to go 1-1-1 with his reads and it would be WAY too blatant on BumAtLarge later on to say he is "very town" and obviously on Day 1 (when that post occurred) he didn't foresee our current situation. Also note how his Kita description is the only one with semblance of a joke. If you read the filter Kita and L also chat a bit back and forth within short timespans of each other on around 2-3 occasions. You also see a much duller version between Syllogism/BumAtLarge but there is much larger time gaps. On December 30 2011 13:24 L wrote: Oh, so there's a bunch of people actively lurking. On the plus side, we don't lose immediately when I'm lynched now. So, for night actions: when I flip town, shoot some combination of RoL, Kita and Bum and lynch whomever remains the following day. If you don't hit 2 mafia during the night, we go from 5:3 now to 4:3 after the lynch, then 2:3 after mafia hits, so we'd lose. On the plus side, if people don't derp out and decide to read this post, we might win, but given how poorly the town's playing it would surprise me if we lose regardless. Anyways, cheerio chaps. With this post he obviously knew he was dying and basically just confirms meapak while incriminating one of the three of us. I know I am town, I can infer bum is town, and I am fiarly sure meapak is town. Kita is the odd man out. On December 27 2011 14:44 L wrote: RE: Activity. Sorry, my Christmas plans multiplied pretty quickly because one side of my family had a second celebration on the 26th due to scheduling conflicts with other chunks of the family from which I just got home from. If I had to push for someone yesterday I'd have gone after GGQ. I was pretty certain with my assessment, but I hadn't put together enough time to outline the full case on him. RE: BC The recent few posts by BC have been oddly worded, but only if you don't bother reading the first day of the game. He is talking about the breadcrumbing that I (and one other) did early on in the thread. I fully agree with his statement (maybe not to the same extent that he put it), but every claimed role thusfar has been a form of conditional or weakened vig. This also fits with my initial prediction that the concept of responsibility will be a game accellerant. RE: Night Either way, we might lose tonight if more guns go off in the wrong direction. We've got four options: 1) Power play: We draw up hit targets and have people volunteer to hit if they can w/ accompanying roleclaims. 2) Hit discuss: We discuss hit targets and let people decide of their own choice if they wish to act on it. 3) Silence + NA: We refuse to talk about potential hits in order to neuter any potential RB action, then hit targets as per private tendencies 4) No night actions: We do any of the above, but hold off on shooting people tonight. But to be honest we don't have very much time to deliberate over these options. The more pressing matter is who should we shoot and why. I personally don't think BC should be shot, but my gut is telling me that GGQ, Kitaman and Foolishness are probably our best choices for the night. GGQ's posting contents look scummy on their own, and Jackal, an otherwise unimpressive kill target, points towards him. Kitaman asks a LOT of questions but offers very little content of his own. His posts seem careful and guarded, careful to prod, but not make opponents. Foolishness took day 2 off after a standard non-existent day 1; very atypical play given he normally springs into action D2, but hey, I was afk for the majority of D2 as well. But see, here's my problem, the main criteria for catching mafia if I'm right about this format being hit driven is activity. Given that we just had ZERO activity out of anyone, I'm kinda up shit's creek about how to understand what happened. I'm going to go reread day 1, because the past 15 pages of the thread are trash. This is the post that did it for me though. Of those 3, two we now know are town, once again I feel he would never post a purely townie list, it feels suspicious to do as mafia, but even more so just three posts before that was his giant list where he didn't have a read on kitaman, yet somehow nothing has changed in his read yet he wants to kill Kitaman? It's not like Sheth and Syllogism someone started looking less scummy at this point. This doesn't feel like it was scripted or done purposely in any way. This just feels natural and unscripted as well. With that, I'm outie yo. Ver end the day early so we can vote and finally end this. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 06 2012 12:46 kitaman27 wrote: lol RoL, how quickly you change your mind, even though there has been absolutely no new evidence. Funny how you were suspicious of bum, yet when nobody decided to bite, you never followed through. That was before I read Syllogism, WBG, and L and I didn't read the whole L lynch on context and I am not going to, Meapak's analysis of it also makes sense, especially since I doubt you guys assumed syllogism was going to get killed. If he didn't you would of been in a great position post bus with Sheth lined up to die and then you just needing one hit after that and it's game over. Just so you get that math, it was 5-3, killing L makes 5-2, we aren't sure, but we can pretend mafia KP is 1 which makes it 4-2 by morning and Sheth as a free lynch makes it 3-2 going into night, meaning you win when you kill and tie it 2-2. But instead Syllogism went down and shit hit the fan. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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##Vote: Kitaman27 I'd give your time to write Kita, but I said earlier I am not thinking anymore. We can assume bum will vote with me if he's scum, so if you want Ver just hammer it now and end this. | ||
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On January 06 2012 15:04 bumatlarge wrote: Sorry, Kita. I actually shot at RoL last night, because if he was scum I think he might have not roleblocked me. Anyway, I don't think he can be a roleblocker and still have pulled off that BC shot without being a scumvig. Since meapak is dead it makes kita's "hit" on syllo look pretty bad. ##Vote: Kitaman27 I haven't been keeping track of how many scum I've killed kita, and neither has RoL. Basically if RoL is mafia, this is gonna be Insane Mafia 2 all over again. Oh well. Commence hammer Ver. This just made my life easier. Why did you hit me lol? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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From just memory you can remember L trying to kill me the day he got lynched, I never really put any posts into why he was scum, I just ran with the analysis that was done on top of my already existing suspicions of L and lynched him. I gained no credit for that lynch. But seriously, think about the BC kill. I explained all my reasoning behind it and why I did everything. No one counter claimed my vig hit. For me to be scum, that night there would have to be 4 mafia KP, or other unclaimed vig hits. The much simpler explanation is 3 hits and my vigi hit. If we assume any other scenario it assumes mafia taking a huge risk by trying to call a hit they didn't perform or hoping they killed one of the people who performed a hit thus preventing a counter claim. At the end of the day I am most likely a town due to that scenario. But if you would like to elaborate where I am all over the place by all means. But if you want to stay with instinct, fine, lose the game on your own terms. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:42 kitaman27 wrote: A town response to me posting all my notes from the entire game would be something along the lines of "oh crap, could bum be scum afterall?", instead you know that I'm probably not willing to lynch bum, so you focus on convincing him that I need to be killed without even mentioning them. You're scum RoL. I'll try to post my final analysis first thing tomorrow morning. It's called I am tired as shit, and I have already read every post from you, bum, meapak/chez, and your entire scum team twice. You really think one post by you (which I did read) is going to somehow contradict all that information? Bum's claim also makes more sense and further implicates you today. but hey, let me one up you. This is from closed casket mafia. Chezinu- Said he was going to try, early on posting random shit. Impossible read. Attacks Amber's post, leaning town Radfield- too much emphasis on lurkers, and very wordy posts, although might just be his style of posting if I remember right. He just writes wordy looking at his BC defense against accusations. Kurumi- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=9#179 Reversed Ace's words in an interesting way. Ace didn't say 2KP mafia would be too strong, but used the no flip to justify why mafia were so weak. Kind of odd. Spams and contributes nothing of actual value. Votes for fishball. Amber[LighT]- Page 10 posted the dumbest shit I have ever read. Reading red. BC- Actually trying this game. I agree with his thoughts on radfield posting unnecessary shit, but at the same time I believe radfield just writes in a very wordy way. Protown read for effort, but he might just like the challenge in this game. ilj- echoes. ECHOES MOAR. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=14#266 KNOWINGLY ECHOES ARGHHHH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=15#286 First actual thought. Chaoser/VisceraEyes- Sucks, bitch puts me at tier 2. Psuedo contributions but gets subbed out. Viscera? Fishball- The boss negro. Deconduo- Aggressive, not his typical mafia behavior, generally tries to coast. Wants to kill fishball who he thinks is green? Que? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=16#307 Deconduo is in the gray, I think he is honestly just playing like shit. Caller- POST SOMETHING RELEVENT, I HATE YOU. Chezinu .5 Palmar- Wants to carpet bomb the game with kills, I like it. First post of Radfield/Kurumi. I agree with the reads more or less. Scamp- Not as active as I would like, late game bloomer. Doesn't appear too scummy. LSB- Posting late about Deconduo/Fishball and posting dumb shit. Sandroba- Posting nothing, supports LSB? Odd. Actually defends himself fairly well to fishballs accusations. Going in the gray area. Fuck man, I am so town now. + Show Spoiler + I was scum in this game, I kept it as something to post in case of emergency since its counter intuitive for mafia to need to keep a reads list, but keeping this list also allowed me to keep track of players I wanted to kill. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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It makes sense, stop trying to misconstrue established facts. Secondly, that isn't a post from a game. Its from a word document I have just had on my computer, those reads and clues were NEVER posted. I was showing BumAtLarge that just because you had a wall of shit to post doesn't mean you have said anything of substance nor does it confirm you as town. L Surviving foolishnesses hit was on another night with no claimed roleblock, I believe the mafia roleblocked and hit foolishness because they thought he was going to kill WBG, if you read his posts prior to his death he is hitting on like 2-3 mafia the whole time. Foolishness was a serious threat to get one of you lynched and the mafia knew he was probably a vig and was saying WBG should die you chose to RB + Hit him. This is why L didn't die and didn't claim a hit. It was because he was never hit. My argument about how GM's role must of worked was to explain how we could somehow have a RB and a failed hit on me. At that time where Chezinu was being a douche townie that is the information I had to work with. Stop saying that infers I am mafia for that since it was the only explanation I could come up with with the given information. Chezinu lied and fucked us up that day. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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Bum, ask yourself. What makes more sense to explain those two nights of actions? Kita's "Well see there was a suicide vig that night which accounts for extra KP, and then a mafia medic that night to explain L not dying, and lets ignore RB placement because thats unimportant to my scenario" Or mine "Both scenario's can be perfectly explained by retrospective information as an interaction between roleblocking targets" This means N1, GM was RBed to set up an ez day 2 lynch, but BC cleared that up with a hit. N3 Foolishness was RBed because he was a threat to the mafia and expressed a desire to kill bugs, so he was RB + Hit, which explains everything perfectly. Occam's Razer, Kita is being silly. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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My point was having a list of analysis done doesn't prove you are town just because you could copy a spreadsheet. When I came to a conclusion on you/bum I didn't read over the whole lynch, just your posts pertaining to it, on that note, I may have misread the lynch. I knew even since then, that the true conclusion and final answer would come after reading all the mafia filters in conjunction with yours. That is now what I did, Meapak had me reconsider my case on you and Bum and now I believe you are scum. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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Bum if you are scum this will be my biggest facepalm in mafia history. | ||
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On January 08 2012 14:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote: HECK YEA, GOOD GAME KITA!!!! MEAPAK I LOVE YOU, BUM YOU CAME THROUGH FOR ME AT THE END. ROL IM PROUD OF YOU. GG Sorry about EZing you a couple days back :O Thanks meapak for making me actually put effort into rereading our 3 confirmed scums. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On January 08 2012 14:47 bumatlarge wrote: Haha I loved it. I was pissed during the game from having 0 information so I couldn't figure out things like I usually do, but now that the game is over it's more fun. I'd change around a few things so that there is an amount of guesswork still. Also, use Responsibility points! Or a role that measures someones response ability! And mass vigis are scary, I could imagine the scum team would get screwed pretty hard if 2 vigis hit red night 1, while we were able to recover from lylo even after those townie massacre's and a HOliday related no-lynch. I want to be on a scum team with a scum medic  You know how close I came to just not ever triggering your killing ability on me? My immediate thought was "There is no fucking way I am giving him the chance to throw this game away." | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On January 08 2012 19:51 wherebugsgo wrote: In addition, I completely disagree over having qualified for spam vig, and for syllo qualifying for the acronym vig. There's an inherent bias in the host allowing a person to shoot someone else on certain grounds because the host already knows the alignment of the player in question. Thus, there's already a subconscious bias that will cause a tendency toward the host allowing the player to take a shot on a mafia player, whereas on a town player it's less likely. In Real Time Mafia where I put in Lurker vigis and other mechanics that involved punishing lurkers I agreed with what you just said and had foolishness (A neutral third party) make a list of all the "lurking" players in the game to avoid that issue. So I do agree with you, as opposed to the host making purely neutral decisions he might sway one way or the other to help the losing team at the time. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On January 08 2012 19:52 syllogism wrote: I don't understand. The roleblocks made sense in light of what we knew; Sheth had been very suspicious of Kita and so had been GM. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have role blocked anyone? Blocking bum on n5 was a mistake as by that point kita should have gambled but considering his heroic efforts otherwise, can't fault him for that. Even keeping some of the people a lot of townies were suspicious of (RoL) doesn't seem too bad At no point did I ever really feel that I was at risk for getting lynched to be honest. I have been in way hotter situations than that. But I do agree, I played rather poorly the first few days but I don't feel I did anything that I couldn't reasonably justify as being from town motivations. The big example is after I shot BC and L was trying to trash me for it, after my push on BC failed I wasn't going to let him live if I could prevent it. When I wrote my case I put that I was hesitant because I didn't want to risk making BC talk and the lynch failing, thus disabling my trigger and failing to kill BC. But for some reason BC wrote 4 post AFTER my analysis, so I could still kill him. After that I think Chezinu/Sheth were the only other two who I could of applied it to. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On January 08 2012 22:58 syllogism wrote: I didn't really mean to imply that you played poorly, I don't really pay attention to that as scum, especially when the person in question isn't getting us lynched. I just think that there were enough townies suspicious of you for you to be a realistic lynch candidate and your inactivity could have made defending difficult. Unfortunately you shooting a townie at night apparently confirmed you as town to some. Yeah, this is where I think WBG erred. You thought your ##Hit on foolishness would of gotten you way more heat then I think it did. Generally if you killed someone the town was accepting you as a real vigilante and since you put heat on foolishness I don't think it would of been seen as bad as you think it would of been. | ||
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