EPTI guess I claimed mafia like 3 times without realising I just did :p
TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 14
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I guess I claimed mafia like 3 times without realising I just did :p | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 19 2011 10:49 wherebugsgo wrote: Okay, let's do a little bit of counting. It took 9 to lynch that day. There were ultimately six townies on sandro. You and VE were #1 and #3, Toad was #4. You never unvoted. annul and risen were #6 and #7, respectively. Instead you could've kept your vote on annul, and allowed annul/Toad to lead the lynch on sandro. You wouldn't even have had to unvote. Risen and VE being incriminated because of the unvote was unnecessary. You could've stayed on annul and VE and Risen wouldn't have had to unvote. Sandro would've lived anyway. EDIT: Another way to think about it is this: you had 3 townies on sandro until vote #8. That's just overkill. no I don't think we could have done that. The only reason we got so many people on sandro afterwards was because we got a bunch of people on him. At some point annul was at 9 and sandroba at 8 while 10 was the majority. The point was, that town was not going to get another nolynch. It was only a couple hours before the deadline and we feared that some townies might hero unvote sandroba to get back on annul just to avoid another no-lynch. That was the reason we had to get risen and VE in the boat as well. And the mass unvote with 5 people. Yeah we discussed it and were afraid because 2 townies were watching the votes as well. We initially only wanted annul and me to unvote, once sandroba was 2 above majority risen was the next to unvote. At some point we decided to unvote everyone except jackal because if that move of ours is not going to work in the first place we just screwed everything anyways. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
That move was stupid, it somehow worked and we had to roll with it the next couple of days imo. By that point annul, sandroba and I should have been 100% clear mafia. However town did not see that except for palmar and even he still thought I'm town which I just can't believe. But the moment annul would have flipped red they would have been able to see all those connections. They would have seen that VE was defending annul the whole game, they would have seen all things I had to do with annul, they would have seen sandrobs weird play and would have lynched us all 4 the next 4 days the moment annul flipped. So yeah, from n2 on I did everything I could to prevent an annul flip. And yes, we actually analyzed a bit about the town players, pointing out where their weaknesses are and how you can confince them of something that's just utterly retarded. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Annul was at 9 while at some point sandroba was 8 (or 8 vss 7?) and risen stepped in to even the votes. I'm sure of that! Once that happened a bunch of townies jumped on sandroba as well and we started to have droubles saving him. So those 5 votes short on annul didn't matter anymore, we had to defend sandroba at that point and that's "just" 3. But again, the reasoning behind this was something like "well we're giving everybody away anyway, might as well just unvote everyone. No point in hiding that unvote when they can easily see that without the unvote" | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 19 2011 11:30 wherebugsgo wrote: This doesn't make sense, nor does it justify sacrificing VE and Risen. Saying "they would've died anyway" doesn't justify the sacrifice, because you have no way of knowing that. I liked sandro's play. However, annul+Risen messed it up by voting at #7 and #8. That was completely unnecessary. The point of a split vote situation for mafia is to barely get one of the members to majority so that an unvote will save them. Everyone who stays on the wagon is indistinguishable. Only the unvoters look scum, so you want to minimize the unvoters. It was possible to do the sacrifice with at least two less unvoters; I would argue that it would have been possible even in other ways (e.g. sacrificing Toad instead of sandro) yeah but without Risen voting sandroba sandroba was still 1 vote short and people said they don't believe we can make a voteswitch happen that late. We had to show that it's still possible because else people will just stay on annul. The moment risen voted sandroba and it was 8-8 we got 3 additional townies voting him because of "well I guess we're still able to make it in time without the euros" | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 19 2011 11:37 wherebugsgo wrote: The three additional townies were completely unnecessary! Annul had already been saved BEFORE Risen voted him, and sandro was not in danger of being lynched. The point wasn't to bus sandro, it was to force a no-lynch. Thus, annul's and risen's votes were pointless. Sandro was at 6 when annul+Risen voted him and annul was at 8, with sandro and you being one of the 8. yes annul was 1 vote short on majorty, sandroba was 2 short on majority but as mentioned: We just feared that some townie would come along and hero unvote sandroba and vote annul because they realized that a no-lynch is going to lose the game. Edit: I'm pretty sure I wasn't on annul. I swapped to sandroba very early as well, way before risen did so. I doubt that I was one of those 8 or I did some wrong vote pattern oO | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
That's the first vote on sandroba. It's from jackal, VE was the 3rd one, I was the 4th one and annul was something later. With annuls vote sandroba was at 7 votes and I know by heart that annul was still 1 vote ahead of sandroba by the time risen came in and voted sandroba (or we counted wrong back than). So that makes 7-8 (you probably were right about the 9 to lynch because I also remember that annul was only 1 short to being lynched). That means that sandroba was the only one on annul and we had little influence about getting people off annul while having a LOT of influence of people getting off sandroba. So we got risen on sandroba as well, made it 8-8 and that's the point 3 townies voted sandroba as well: turth, refallen, V7, none of them wanted to vote sandroba but did so because they had to if I remember correctly. We only had one guy being able to unvote annul. So if 1 townie hero voted annul because he thought sandroba is not going to get lynched that'd be still fine because sandroba could have unvoted. With 2 hero townies we are doomed so we wanted to get more people on sandroba because again, we had way more influence about what happened with sandroba than we had about what was going to happen with annul if townies start to behave weird. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 19 2011 11:57 VisceraEyes wrote: The only reason I switched was because Annul was paranoid about town reacting to Toad unvoting...and later Annul when 1 more townie voted Sand. Annul wanted to make sure that even if town reacted, we secured the no-lynch. I agreed to it because Annul had proven (to me) that he can play scum. I had even planned to NOT switch in spite of telling everyone I was, but then I got paranoid that town would react and when the time came, I pulled the trigger. It doesn't matter though because the way we did it ended up paying off. We could have done it differently, maybe slightly more efficiently..but when Bum took the bait, our course was set. LOL thought the exact same thing. Would have been hilarious if everyone did that | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
At some point I even thought he might be crazy enough to claim RB-immune-medic to hide another power role beneath it because he thinks that everyone else thinks that he's bullshitting. That's the reason we roleblocked him one night because I was scared he might be the roleblocker town had or what-ever else could be still out there trying to cover it by being as weird as you can get, which blue's don't do. That move really made it easy to defend annul, stopped the talk about annul and made everyone discuss drazerk's move instead, which probably was a reason we got another nolynch on annul | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
1) Why was I suspicious d1? I thought I was doing quite ok d1 and most people thought so as well. I can see that I did a couple of slips (after d1) and obvisously everything with annul made me look like mafia but I don't know what made me look mafia on d1. 2) As already mentioned when talking to wherebugs I think the votecount you quoted is wrong or weird. Both VE and myself were voting sandroba early on and you mentioned we were not? 3) The roleblock on V7 was a mistake of ours. We thought that if we kill refallen the save he does will not happen and since we did not have a better target we wanted to play it safe and just rb V7. I even asked you about it in a pm but I guess it was too late :p So yeah, we thought a refallen kill nullifies his protection and therefore we thought we do not have to RB refallen. Those are the things I just saw and while 1) is a question I'd like to see the answer to improve and 2) and 3) are some things that we just saw in a complete other way resulting in bullshit of our own :p | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
The most important thing I got from this game is, if you think something is not going to work you probably should not do it as mafia :p I think I had a good chance getting in late game if I had not gotten myself involved in all that annul shit. And yes what wbg said really was the one thing I was worried about. I was dodging to pick targets several times while townie-Toad would be way more agressive and would be fosing people without being scared of getting attention. However I felt I got a decend chance in looking like a nooby townie who puts in some effort and it actually worked. If rad would have seen one of my townie games he probably never would have thought I'm a townie I guess but since he did not he thought I'm a new guy that's putting some effort in this game and got no defined reads because I'm new. Also since most people who are mafia for the first time are lurking quite a bit I tried to be vocal. Sure vocal like a nooby would be to roll with my image but that probably got rad thinking I'm not a mafia as well because my mafia buddies probably would have told me to not be vocal in my first game as mafia. To sum it up: The reason people thought I was townie was because I looked like a nooby without actually giving the sry-I'm-noob-excuse because noone likes that. Yeah what wbg and incog pointed out about me would have been an insta-lynch if it happened to more experienced players (and palmar already pm'ed me that he IS going to lynch me the next time that happens) but half the town did the same (lanaia for example quoted that one answer I was giving to rad wbg quoted and said exactly the same) so it really looked like a normal new townie that still does a couple of mistakes imo. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:24 Palmar wrote: that's exactly how I took prplhz's post, I assumed he agreed with me, and decided to sarcastically jump on sandroba's wagon. another funny sidenote: When you claimed dayvig and v7 claimed dayvig as well annul claimed dayvig as well but noone even mentioned it  | ||
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It should probably have made me suspicious of sandroba instead.
