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On December 08 2011 04:21 Blazinghand wrote:
ey215, you're on the list of people I have a town read on. Could you look into xtsc/tunkeg debate a bit? I need to read up on it as well, but getting a solid read in there would also be good.
Also, I can't throw out the possibility that Veli is bussing JB. I'll be examining his posting as well. If you could help with this that would be great.
Replacement people: please try to get posting. We need you guys to develop a presence in the game asap.
Sure, stepping out for a late lunch, but I'll get deeper into it later today.
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Alright, did some reading while eating.
Here seems to be the brunt of the xscsc/Tunkeg dilemma. Tunkeg, even in his initial read that he mildly flipped on on xsc sounded like he had some suspicions. After a change in his read, xsc lost it on him and they bickered causing Tunkeg to tunnel in further. Tunkeg even admits in a post today that his case was "thin".
I honestly think that this is the case of two potential townies going after each other. From everything I read, xsc's case on Tunkeg was very weak and again tunkeg called his own case "thin".
Something I did find odd is they both argued against the BByte lynch and yet still ended up voting for him.
Here's my read: Tunkeg Town
xsc: null.
I'm not convinced that xsc is scum, and would like to see his replacement do some posting so we can go from there and I do feel that Tunkeg has been doing what is in the best interest of the town up to this point. I'd have a hard time voting for either at the moment.
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On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia.
Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further?
Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something.Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day.
Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar.
Oh and you may have missed it, but let's see:
Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing. I know it's WIFOM, but I keep going around about it and it just doesn't make sense unless he was on to something or a threat to BH (if he's scum). I'm not convinced he had Hasseybaby right, but I think one of the three he had listed is for sure scum. He just hadn't posted enough to be a huge threat and may have even been someone they could get a lynch going on.
At the moment, I'm willing to give BH the benefit of a doubt. After seeing how well he's baited jaybrundage into slipping I think, if town, he's a valuable resource.
It seems like we've got two mini battles going on right now xtsc(or replacement)/tunkeg and jaybrundage/BH. I notice that they both involve names that EB threw out. If jay flips town I think we look at lynching BH, if he's mafia he manipulated jay into slipping masterfully.
That's analysis of our current game state, and potentially pushing the conversation. You may or may not ever get a post with 10 quotes of someone from me. If I decide it is needed I will do it, but I'm not going to push some made up case that I come up with just for the sake of looking good. I've read the filters, along with the thread to get it in context, multiple times and have yet to see anything unique that hasn't been said. Anything you get from me on specific players will be a gut instinct or hunch and I don't like going on that.
Can't wait for your case, I'll be happy to respond.
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On December 08 2011 06:06 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 05:53 ey215 wrote:
Alright, did some reading while eating.
Here seems to be the brunt of the xscsc/Tunkeg dilemma. Tunkeg, even in his initial read that he mildly flipped on on xsc sounded like he had some suspicions. After a change in his read, xsc lost it on him and they bickered causing Tunkeg to tunnel in further. Tunkeg even admits in a post today that his case was "thin".
I honestly think that this is the case of two potential townies going after each other. From everything I read, xsc's case on Tunkeg was very weak and again tunkeg called his own case "thin".
Something I did find odd is they both argued against the BByte lynch and yet still ended up voting for him.
Here's my read: Tunkeg Town
xsc: null.
I'm not convinced that xsc is scum, and would like to see his replacement do some posting so we can go from there and I do feel that Tunkeg has been doing what is in the best interest of the town up to this point. I'd have a hard time voting for either at the moment. Just FYI I didn't say my case was thin, I said many thought my case was thin. Just wanted to clearify that. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 21:53 Tunkeg wrote:
Just read up on this during lunch, and while just reading through it really fast I have to say that the case you guys are building on jay, and the reasoning behind it is thin. 3 votes allready? Was it the the kill on EB that changed your mind?Many thought my case on xsksc was thin, but this is thinner, and it allready have 3 votes.
My apologies, I misread that statement. So you still stand behind his replacement as very likely mafia?
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I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight.
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Whoops make that xfttc, Bluelightz and jaybrundage not Starshard. I had xsc on the mind after reading up on him and Tunkeg.
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On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Right, so next time I'll just vote and keep my mouth shut. My bad, that really helps town doesn't it?Show nested quote +Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion.
So basically, we should disregard all information that we've potentially gained in the last 2 days because you say he was trolling? I'm not focusing on him, I read up on others and think there is an avenue to explore with his killing because it didn't make sense.
Why are you tying so hard to dodge any potential discussion?
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So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia.
And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing.
You're still missing the point on this one, there are two types of lurkers. Scum and Town. In a newbie game you're more likely to end up with a newbie lurker because frankly, we don't know how to proceed. I did not think browbeating lurkers was going to help us find the lurkers that are scum over the lurkers that are town. We'd just end up with some lurkers posting and then we lynched a town lurker because he couldn't be browbeaten into posting (because he was afk). Browbeating people into posting did us no good. In fact, it got you to try to start a vote on a vanilla townie, namely me.
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On December 08 2011 07:30 xtfftc wrote:ey215. While personally I liked how EY posted a well written post at the very start of the game to put a stop to the idle chatting, this was a general post that set him up for a well-observed pattern in his play that BH nailed: EY's "contributions" are mostly general posts that say absolutely nothing of significance. Look at his filter. Apart from the BH discussion (which he was forced to take a part in after his initial overreaction to BH pushing the town forward), his activity has consisted of: - General gameplay/policy post - Pushing BKE, that easiest target around - General gameplay/policy post - Responce to Jay's half-accusation - General gameplay/policy post - Responce to BH's post from earlier (BH had to push him for it before EY posted it), garnished with an attempt to appeal to people's emotions ("but by god if no one wants my opinion don't ask"). - A deeper comment regarding gameplay - which would be good if it wasn't pushing pro-mafia agenda + Show Spoiler +He tried to scare town that what BH was doing was likely to lead to lurking townies doing stupid stuff that would get them lynched. This is anti-town because we need as much information as possible. Analysing someone's temperamental post is better than gambling with lynching a lurker. A lot of these things aren't bad on their own. There's nothing wrong with pushing a newbie a bit. But the pattern that can be observed is EY posting lots of general stuff without doing any analysis/actively looking for mafia. I can go on but the same can be seen in so many of his posts that I would have to spend the whole night working on the case. So from now on I will l focus on some of the major points I've covered earlier and pointing out stuff I've missed before. ey215's exchanges with BH from Day 1 are full of stuff to analyse. I have already discussed things such why no townie has a reason to react to BH's play like EY did... Or my personal favourite, "I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers." My responce: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:23 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:
I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
......what? So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia. And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing. But there's a lot of other instances of scummy play. This bit, for example: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:39 ey215 wrote:
It worked on me because it pissed me off. It may not do so with someone else. I just don't want some random intimidated townie getting lynched because you deemed a paragraph or two on the question on hand isn't enough and decided to throw out a ##vote on them. Makes sense. He doesn't want townies to get intimidated into posting stupid things. But... Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:
I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post.
I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. Oh, wait, he is actually concerned that his might end up with a bandwagon because one person switches his vote all the time... At 15:39 he explains his opposition of BH with one argument, at 15:48 - with another. The problem with this is that he iis way too afraid to simply let the subject go; he did his best to "win" the argument
I was responding to two different people, why is this so hard to understand? To further clarify the point I was making is not scummy it is important. I don't think voting haphazardly is a good idea. I'll go on and respond to your upcoming response, my vote on Jay is not haphazardly throwing my vote around. I think he's the best case and am willing to lynch him. the same way I was willing to lynch BByte..
I'm not even 1/4 through his filter... I will try to finish it at work tomorrow. In the meanwhile, I would like to encourage you to re-read his filter. It's been non-stop, up until the way he jumped on the Jay bandwagon while expressing his own disbelief for doing so just an hour ago (not to mention that he didn't provide a serious read on Jay either + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Ok, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundageFuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. )
Right, my fault for recognizing there was a bandwagon potentially forming and not being pleased that I couldn't offer any help to either A. Stop it or B. Confirm that it wasn't a bandwagon. You'll notice that this is consistent with my concerns about bandwagons above.I still feel BH's case is the one, especially after the stuff today, that is currently best. That does not mean I'm happy to making the vote.
Also, what is there for me to gain as mafia by pointing out I'm jumping on the potential bandwagon? Where's the logic in that?
Also, check out my last reply to him. There is more to come for those who are not convinced yet but I am nevertheless: ##Vote: ey215
You're welcome to your opinion, but you are wrong. I am town. I would encourage others to spend time elsewhere. I will answer any questions anyone has related to this case to the best of my ability.
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On December 08 2011 18:57 Bluelightz wrote:Above Post Should Not Be Read because it is so messy xDHmm My scumreads right now BroodKingEXE Leaning Scum - He has been filling the thread with some post's trying to "distance" him and jay as you can see in Adam's and BH's observation. Also, if JB flips scum we wil have a strong case on BKEXE Next, ey215 is leaning scum, when he says but then, I quote Grackaroni BH, has provided a good enough discussion so, ##Vote: Jaybrundage
I fail to see how me claiming town when defending myself against a case claiming I'm mafia is unto itself scummy. If I was writing a case on someone else and using it as a reason for someone else to believe me, then I agree with out but that is not the case. By pulling that one line out of a post defending myself on a case you're intentionally trying to make it seem scummy, when it is not.
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Ok, I was going to save this for tomorrow as I didn’t think I was going to need it today and was still doing the research, but Tunkeg’s probability lynching forced my hand.
For the record, I do think Tunkeg is onto something.
I’ll start that by saying that I understand why he left himself out, but it would be wise of the town to remember that he too voted for BByte and needs to be looked at just as strongly as the rest of us. I’m not making that case here, mainly because after reading his stuff I don’t think he’s scum, but some other eyes on it would be nice. The only thing that has me concerned about him at the moment is the way he’s grabbed onto xttfc’s case against me, then managed to put my name twice into his lists on the probability lynches and then mildly pushed BH to look at it deeper, therefore potentially getting a bandwagon rolling.
For today, I’m not that worried about it but look in the future how these cases and lynches of townies developed.
I have come to believe that the mafia started laying the groundwork for future cases on townies in Day 1 so as not to appear to just be switching from one day to another. At the time that this case started against me, I was looking like I’d be a counter weight to BH and therefore might have some persuasive power around here. It has not turned out that way, but remember the context when this starts.
At that point in Day 1, BH and I had our argument, got over it and moved on, then xtfftc comes around and decides that based off of being defensive and to make sure to hammer that point home cherry picks some quotes out of context and uses them six hours later to plant his seeds.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:18 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread Policy or not, everyone should be doing this. Mafia are bound to slip and they will also be reluctant to talk about their teammates slipping, so this is very pro-town behaviour. If you see something you consider to be a lie, mention it. You might be wrong but it's important anyway. And it will also help differentiate between townies who are hunting for mafia and the mafia players who are trying not to attract attention. (I still think that pushing for heavy policies is pro-mafia though, it takes the pressure away from them by allowing them to follow some simple guidelines) Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Town doesn't benefit from last minute lynches, mafia does. If you see someone suddenly pushing for a lynch near the deadline when there isn't enough time for a proper discussion, it is very likely that this person is mafia. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great.
Then he gives this gem:
ey215 is my strongest mafia read for now though... Having to call out someone on scummy behaviour two times just a few hours into a mini game doesn't bode well for that person.
If I’m such a strong read, why didn’t you push to lynch me at all Day 1? I put forth the theory that no one responded really latched onto the idea, and you didn’t want to go out of your way to stand out that early. You’ve been setting up this Day 2 attempt at a lynch since yesterday.
Also, while this is going on we get Grackaroni coming around and starts by giving this read on me:
Ey215: He took a post from blazinghand calling him a lurker and acted very defensively. I believe that this is a trait that would be found among Mafia or Town. (I mean nobody wants to get lynched  ) I think he is someone who I should watch more but he is contributing so he should not be lynched today.
Then starts subtlety leading Tunked to me:
On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." Tunkeg doesn’t really bite: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:
@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town
So they let it go for the day and don’t really try to get the bandwagon going. Now look what happens today, we get the case against me followed almost immediately by a post by Grackaroni trying to get BH to take a look:
On December 08 2011 07:49 Grackaroni wrote:
Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote.
The beauty of those two posts by Grackaroni is that they allow him to steer how other people my look at someone and get them to make the case on me, instead of he having to do it himself. He can let BH get or not get a bandwagon going, and no one remembers the actual post that started him down that road.
I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia.
Now, again I’d like to see xtfftc respond to some accusations about him without just brushing it off as trolling as he did with EB. Since EB was conveniently killed overnight, he wasn’t here to defend himself and xtfftc was let off scot free. Again, killing EB made no sense unless he was on to at least one scum in that list. I currently think it was two, Jay and xtfftc.
I know you're asking yourself this townies, "But wait! You can't prove any of this unless you're town and we're not sure that you are!". Yes, I know that's why I expect that if the lynch goes through tonight you'll be able to use some of this on Day 3.
So, my scum list:
jaybrundage, xtfftc, Grackaroni
Enjoy.
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On December 09 2011 07:45 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:Ok, I was going to save this for tomorrow as I didn’t think I was going to need it today and was still doing the research, but Tunkeg’s probability lynching forced my hand. For the record, I do think Tunkeg is onto something. I’ll start that by saying that I understand why he left himself out, but it would be wise of the town to remember that he too voted for BByte and needs to be looked at just as strongly as the rest of us. I’m not making that case here, mainly because after reading his stuff I don’t think he’s scum, but some other eyes on it would be nice. The only thing that has me concerned about him at the moment is the way he’s grabbed onto xttfc’s case against me, then managed to put my name twice into his lists on the probability lynches and then mildly pushed BH to look at it deeper, therefore potentially getting a bandwagon rolling. For today, I’m not that worried about it but look in the future how these cases and lynches of townies developed. I have come to believe that the mafia started laying the groundwork for future cases on townies in Day 1 so as not to appear to just be switching from one day to another. At the time that this case started against me, I was looking like I’d be a counter weight to BH and therefore might have some persuasive power around here. It has not turned out that way, but remember the context when this starts. At that point in Day 1, BH and I had our argument, got over it and moved on, then xtfftc comes around and decides that based off of being defensive and to make sure to hammer that point home cherry picks some quotes out of context and uses them six hours later to plant his seeds. + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:18 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread Policy or not, everyone should be doing this. Mafia are bound to slip and they will also be reluctant to talk about their teammates slipping, so this is very pro-town behaviour. If you see something you consider to be a lie, mention it. You might be wrong but it's important anyway. And it will also help differentiate between townies who are hunting for mafia and the mafia players who are trying not to attract attention. (I still think that pushing for heavy policies is pro-mafia though, it takes the pressure away from them by allowing them to follow some simple guidelines) Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Town doesn't benefit from last minute lynches, mafia does. If you see someone suddenly pushing for a lynch near the deadline when there isn't enough time for a proper discussion, it is very likely that this person is mafia. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great. Then he gives this gem: ey215 is my strongest mafia read for now though... Having to call out someone on scummy behaviour two times just a few hours into a mini game doesn't bode well for that person. If I’m such a strong read, why didn’t you push to lynch me at all Day 1? I put forth the theory that no one responded really latched onto the idea, and you didn’t want to go out of your way to stand out that early. You’ve been setting up this Day 2 attempt at a lynch since yesterday. Also, while this is going on we get Grackaroni coming around and starts by giving this read on me: Ey215: He took a post from blazinghand calling him a lurker and acted very defensively. I believe that this is a trait that would be found among Mafia or Town. (I mean nobody wants to get lynched ) I think he is someone who I should watch more but he is contributing so he should not be lynched today. Then starts subtlety leading Tunked to me: On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." Tunkeg doesn’t really bite: On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:
@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town So they let it go for the day and don’t really try to get the bandwagon going. Now look what happens today, we get the case against me followed almost immediately by a post by Grackaroni trying to get BH to take a look: On December 08 2011 07:49 Grackaroni wrote:
Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote. The beauty of those two posts by Grackaroni is that they allow him to steer how other people my look at someone and get them to make the case on me, instead of he having to do it himself. He can let BH get or not get a bandwagon going, and no one remembers the actual post that started him down that road. I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia. Now, again I’d like to see xtfftc respond to some accusations about him without just brushing it off as trolling as he did with EB. Since EB was conveniently killed overnight, he wasn’t here to defend himself and xtfftc was let off scot free. Again, killing EB made no sense unless he was on to at least one scum in that list. I currently think it was two, Jay and xtfftc. I know you're asking yourself this townies, "But wait! You can't prove any of this unless you're town and we're not sure that you are!". Yes, I know that's why I expect that if the lynch goes through tonight you'll be able to use some of this on Day 3. So, my scum list: jaybrundage, xtfftc, GrackaroniEnjoy. For reference the first quote you took from me is very old
That's why I said it "starts" with it. We're not accountable for what we said on day 1?
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Your mafia team consists of the 1 person that everyone agrees is scum, Xtfftc, who voted and made a case against you. And me, who has been suspicious of you.
You have a bunch of quotes from me asking people questions. I sincerely want to know why players like Tunkeg and BH continually think that you are town.
Upon question Tunkeg's reads seem more inconsistent, his opinion of xsksc changed during a time when xsksc didn't even post. If anyone I was siding more with xsksc than xtfttc, look at Tunkeg/xsksc argument. I was more sure that Tunkeg was suspicious, xttftc voted for xsksc.
From what I understand the basis of your case is that I am asking people questions to make them look more suspicious.
I am simply asking questions to gain more information.
This doesn't go as far as OMGUS, but perhaps you should consider that just because people seem to be against you, does not mean they are scum.
Go out and give your own analysis instead of "asking questions". My case is not that you're against me, but that you and xtfftc are working together and have been from the start. I will grant you that my read on him is stronger than you, but of the people currently alive I think you three are the scum.
Nice way of calling it OMGUS while trying not to make it appear you're not. Go refute my points other than, "I'm just asking questions."
You'll notice that the other person to actually vote for me is not one I listed as mafia, but you instead and I'm still bothered by how flippantly certain people have been in not using the information we have from last nights killing.
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On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt.
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On December 09 2011 08:27 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:26 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. HAH. If anybody was flagrant enough to do a last-minute mass voteswitch, they'd clearly be mafia. There are 11 voters in the game, so a majority is 6, meaning that minimum 2 people who justified their case would have to hop off the JB wagon AND JB would have the change his vote. And if the mafia were the flagrant, they'd just shoot me tonight-- I'd never cast another vote. Last minute unjustified mass voteswitch is anti-town. In fact, why would you even suggest that your lynching today is a possibility? o_O
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
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That and for some reason I lost track of time, I had no idea it was only 1.5 hours or so from the vote closing. I blame studying for finals. If I have to do one more freaking regression analysis I may lose it.
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On December 09 2011 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:27 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:26 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. HAH. If anybody was flagrant enough to do a last-minute mass voteswitch, they'd clearly be mafia. There are 11 voters in the game, so a majority is 6, meaning that minimum 2 people who justified their case would have to hop off the JB wagon AND JB would have the change his vote. And if the mafia were the flagrant, they'd just shoot me tonight-- I'd never cast another vote. Last minute unjustified mass voteswitch is anti-town. In fact, why would you even suggest that your lynching today is a possibility? o_O The math: We're currently at 8 - 3 They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3 Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3. Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important. OK, so I understand the first paragraph: If we mislynch and they shoot someone there will be 6 townies, 3 mafia the next dya, and if it happens again, it will be 4 townies, 3 mafia. The 2nd paragaph states that... if we lynch jay and he flips scum... and they shoot someone... they still have 3 alive somehow? ???? Also, I could see why "we lynch a townie" is bad, but you still haven't answered why you think it's even possible that you could be lynched. Even if there are two mafias voting for Jay and they BOTH change their vote to you, Jay still has more votes for him than you.
Sigh, you're right 7- 2
5 - 2
That's the point I was making, just forgot to take away one from the mafia column.
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On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here.
You really think it's going to be BKEXE tomorrow? I don't, I think it's going to be me. Xtfftc has pretty much persuaded at least one non mafia.
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On December 09 2011 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Current Votes:
jaybrundage (7): Blazinghand, Adam4167, Velinath, ey215, BroodKingEXE, Grackaroni, Bluelightz
ey215 (2): xtfftc, Tunkeg
Velinath (1): jaybrundage
Hypothetically, JB could change his vote to you, AND Star could come back and vote for you, AND two people could switch their votes from JB to you. This would cause you to go up to 6 votes and JB to go down to 5, and would require the cooperation of four (4) people, when there are currently 3 mafia in the game, and make it painfully obvious who mafia was.
I recognize how persuasive Xtfftc has been and will continue to attempt to be. If he had gotten you to change his vote a few hours ago I do think I could have been lynched today, hence why you got my post on him and Grackaroni. I wanted to give as much information as possible for town to go off of when I flip town.
After that I lost track of time, had no idea how close we were to deadline.
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On December 09 2011 08:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:47 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here. You really think it's going to be BKEXE tomorrow? I don't, I think it's going to be me. Xtfftc has pretty much persuaded at least one non mafia. Or he's persuaded one mafia. Maybe Xtfftc is town and Tunkeg is mafia? Think flexibly :D Plus, if the mafia wants you dead, they have very effecient ways of killing people, I hear.
Hear that on the mafia QT? o_0
I kid, I kid. 
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EPT
