EPTTL Mafia XLVII - Page 65
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:14 syllogism wrote: It's a bad plan and do you realize blues operate on their own in almost every single game? There's a reason why it's standard play: because it's optimal. When you've PMs or other nonstandard mechanics, things change, but in a huge standard game you don't need to offer an alternate plan when someone suggests non-standard play and you can convincingly argue why it's stupid. You didn't convincingly argue anything. You stumbled and tripped over your own logic. You denied that there is any benefit to the plan "because it doesn't confirm sanities." That's the result of you illogically applying a false dichotomy to the situation. The situation isn't, "plan=helpful if it confirms sanities" and "plan=bad if it doesn't." There is an inbetween, namely it is still helpful if it accelerates the rate at which DTs may confirm their sanities. I rebutted your "argument" and showed you why this is precisely the case, using your own example to show my point. I also addressed, albeit briefly, that it's completely fine and natural that some blues will choose to operate on their own. We have no way of actually controlling what the blues do. That's fine, let them play their role how they want to play. However, if they agree with the plan then we provide them with that option. This is actually the beauty of the plan. It isn't foolproof to everyone adhering to it, but even if some people don't adhere to it, it's still beneficial. The likelihood of achieving a flip among those 10 players will be drastically increased. The scum framers will not reliably be able to predict where the DTs will be every night. Also, this plan doesn't even include mad hatters, trackers, or role cops. All of them are more reliable than DTs and they will do their own thing. In addition, a nice side effect of the plan is that it gives medics and doctors better chances to protect, since it basically eliminates 10 players from the pool. Why would you ever want to protect a list of the 10 best scumreads town has? With this list public, even an afk doctor has a drastically better chance of protecting a townie from a night hit. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:32 unsmart wrote: From what I understand it is standard for DTs to act on their own in normal games. However from the size of this game I'm not sure that is optimal at all. Simply calling the plan bad and just pointing to standard play is not enough. When you say the plan is bad you need to point out why is is bad and then show how standard play would be better. So far I haven't seen that. I'm not sure I'm so different from other noobs when it comes to not fully understanding the way the game normally plays. The majority of us are not going to read through other games when it takes so much time to look through and analyze this one by itself. So as a vet you need to both show why the proposed plan is bad and why unorganized play is good. Otherwise, at least from my perspective, you come off as slightly scummy. We have pointed out why it is bad. You risk more overlap, let scum know who are going to be checked, make our vigs shoot d2 and waste checks because people are under the illusion that checks are worthless unless you see flips and possibly knowing your sanity a bit earlier will somehow benefit the town. You still won't be able to claim due to mafia likely having several roleblockers and unless you can actually make a good case against someone, pushing to lynch a player you got a red check on will be ignored anyway. You can push without knowing your sanity once you get a red check, especially once you get one red and one green check; no flips are required. Obviously before pushing you should filter the person to see if he actually appears scummy; even if you know you are sane he could still be a miller and if you don't your sanity you should be just slightly more careful. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:41 sandroba wrote: Flipping 10 poeple early is retarded as fuck, that's my point. Sinani206 is not playing his normal bad, he is INTENTIONALLY trolling and acting dumb, which is standard mafia sinani. I just showed you a game in which sinani was town and intentionally trolling and acting dumb. What is your point? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
also syllo, I realize I am not the brightest, but my personal level of intelligence has no bearing on my argument. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:41 sandroba wrote: Flipping 10 poeple early is retarded as fuck, that's my point. Sinani206 is not playing his normal bad, he is INTENTIONALLY trolling and acting dumb, which is standard mafia sinani. You are basing your entire argument of wifom meta. It is day 1. If you honestly hate trolls and want them dead why are you not pushing players such as kurumi, serejai or coag who are all known trolls? Who troll every game? You have shown you are against a town attempting to order itself and work as a team and instead believe individual people should do their own thing? You in every pm game talk to a small circle and instantly buddy up. Why the sudden change of people should do their own thing? You actively choose a lynch target and after campaigning on "i will do analysis" do not even show using previous games why your argument this game has any solid proof. Instead you are saying "I say he is doing x and this is his meta" You are telling who do not know any meta on that player that you are accurately giving that information. It is insanely misleading and downright scumlike. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:42 syllogism wrote: Wbg you are completely intolerable and not very bright He is posting logically and you try to divert a game thread into another flame war that as WBG has been warned for once could get modkilled for? Seriously? This is the example you are going to show to newer players. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:50 sandroba wrote: No, that game he was posting his honest opinion in a very scummy way. So his honest opinion was saying, "I'm the only thing going on" in response to questions asked about scumreads, his honest opinion was saying "I'm trying a new playstyle" when it was simply trolling, and his honest opinion was saying "yeah I know I'm useless get over it just lynch me."? How can you expect anyone to seriously believe this? | ||
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Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On November 26 2011 06:01 Nokarot wrote: Just thought I'd post to say goodbye. I requested replacement. I think I bit off a little more than I can chew this game and don't want to turn in to a lurker without being able to keep up. I know its awfully taboo and I'll probably get some flak for it, but what can I say- I just wasn't having the fun I anticipated. That doesn't actually surprise me. If you like the concept please look out of newbie games. You may have a lot more fun then | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I'd rather scumhunt than tout my own abilities, tbh. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
Especially considering how big this game is going to be. Holy crap, 65 pages and we haven't even reached Night 1 O.O Erandorr, how do you feel about wbg's analysis of sandro? | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 26 2011 05:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok say day 1 you check and result is townie. If you then check day 2 and get red and the red flips miller you instantly know your sanity. If you hit miller first and he dies and flips and you got a result as red then you know if you ever hit a green check what your sanity is. Ah, that's much better, thanks. Again, maybe it's just me but I had absolutely no idea what it was that you were trying to say. On November 26 2011 06:01 Nokarot wrote: Just thought I'd post to say goodbye. I requested replacement. I think I bit off a little more than I can chew this game and don't want to turn in to a lurker without being able to keep up. I know its awfully taboo and I'll probably get some flak for it, but what can I say- I just wasn't having the fun I anticipated. I thought you were doing pretty good for a newbie. An 80 players game is going to be a mindfuck but that's the case for pretty much all of us really. (and I don't understand the concept of making a gigantic games for the newbies, considering that it might do more bad than good for them, but we've started already) | ||
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