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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 08:44 Forumite wrote: Right. If you are busy now then at least make prplhz your first priority once you have time for Mafia again. yes, i will do. Unlike some other people in this game, when I do read up on people, I spend time on it to get it right. looking at the votes it's going to be really important for me to get prplhz right. So I'll do it on my own time. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 08:54 risk.nuke wrote: Interesting thought that you try to write it of as a save-card when you're a good enough player to know that isn't true. I mean it makes sense if you're townie to try to assure that you don't get lynched but with your own words "Here's a pro-tip. We lynch all liars, always, and every fucking time. No exceptions" This definitly doesn't speak in your favor. Where did I lie? And why don't you just leave it to me to make sure I don't get lynched. Don't you worry about it. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 09:03 risk.nuke wrote: Not directly lying as bending the truth. When you claimed that if a medic says they protected you that proves scum were trying to kill you. I reason that you're a good enough player to have realised that that wasn't true. No, but if a random medic claims to have protected me, the chances of me being scum are low enough that it'd actually be idiotic to lynch me. Well, anyone reading the game should be aware of this already, but meh. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
The idea is that if you're scum, or even town, you might last-minute claim, which would probably lead to us lynching some ill-advised secondary opinion without much discussion. So, I don't see any harm in it for town if you just claim right now. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Warning: This post is written as a flow of conciousness, so expect some weird sentences/conclusions This guy is a notoriously difficult person to read, to the point I would almost say that lynching him generally fruitless. I skimmed through some of his previous games I could remember, and he does have a reasonable history of voting for scum early as town (see mini mafia x, bc's aa etc). But he is also surprisingly reckless as scum (see his randomly brilliant claim in PYP:I). What makes this difficult is that we can't actually call him out on things we'd normally be able to call other people out for. Just for the people who are frantically trying to apply scumtells, I'm just going to tell you straight up that your game will improve dramatically when you stop looking at what people are saying and start looking at how they're saying it. As for prplhz's initial game strategy, we see him arguing against LAL, while that's obviously retarded (LAL only works if people are under the impression it will be followed through no matter what, even if in the end that might not be the case), he does seem to have valid reasons for not going through with it. Another thing I find works in his favor in day 1 is that he's actually trying to discourage too strict policies, which is something mafia generally tries to avoid, because it's questionable behavior. What scum reasons could prplhz have for arguing against early lurker lynches? I don't really see any. His early vote for Hiroruby is also very much justifiable, because well... I personally have only twice seen people write posts on how mafia would play, and both times they turned out to be scum (see for example sandroba in CCM). So once again, there is nothing from the early game that suggests prplhz is mafia. After this, prplhz goes ahead and points out that I'm "manipulating" town. Now, I do have a problem with this, because at this point he can't have a good read on me as I had posted almost nothing. This looks like an preemptive attack on my creditability. At this point all I had done was reach a conclusion and posted a quick case about chaoser, that was almost it. This is obviously bad play on prplhz's behalf (simple statistics say there's 80% chance I'm town, so there is no need to instantly attack someone like that, unless it's backed up by something), but I'm not sure it is a scumtell, he could just as well be afraid of my scum play. Finally he goes on a capsing spree. Once again it's not really telling that he's using caps, it might just as well be overenthusiastic town. However he reaches the conclusion that sinani206 is a terrible lynch. Notice that I reach exactly the same conclusion as prplhz, and neither of us actually post a case explaining why. However prplhz, does not have any previous history of making correct calls day 1 and opposing lynches vocally like that. Actually I'd go out on a limb and say he feels uncomfortably convinced in that read on sinani206. I know it's entirely hypocritical of me to call someone out for being right (I had the pleasure of being called scum for being right in XLIV, it's a terrible feeling), but now it comes down to how much credit I give prplhz for being good at town, and I don't think I can give him this much credit. I know he's a cocky bastard (welcome to the club), but I have to look at the situation from the point of view of "what would happen if prplhz is town and he was wrong". This is the reason most townies don't explicitly go out of their way to defend other townies, because they actually don't know if they're right, and the repercussions of being wrong (defending mafia) can be pretty bad for town. Following his few random comments during the night, he has to spend the next day defending himself. Which is probably the best way to deduce his alignment, because it forces him to be more honest instead of hiding behind throwaway comments like he did on day 1. There are several things of importance. He outs his caps spamming as some kind of a plan, which may rank up there with the worst ideas ever in mafia games, but once again, it's not what people are doing, it's how that matters. Does anyone here actually think that trying this, and then explaining it as a plan is a good play as mafia? It draws attention, it is ridiculous, and makes him (rightfully) the center of attention. When mafia could just as easily ride one of the several other shitstorms going on in the thread. Another thing that really works in prplhz's favor is the fact that he doesn't lose sight of the end goal while he's being scrutinized. He has all the while through defending himself kept calling people out for bullshit and attempted to create cases. And talking about the cases. risk.nuke isn't going to be lynched. After Tyrran called him confirmed town on day 1, it's going to take a bit of a stretch to get risk.nuke lynched. This is important because if prplhz was scum trying to defend himself from the lynch, he could so easily try to build a case on someone in a weaker position, but prplhz chooses to build the case against one of the most universally accepted townies in the game. That's either really ballsy or really stupid as mafia. I don't think even myself or WBG would be cocky enough to try this, and prplhz is still not as much of an asshole as I am. I think the conclusion must be that I don't want to lynch prplhz. So yeah, for transparency and people just looking for the verdict (though I would argue that reading the entire thought process is extremely helpful) I'm going to (despite never having voted him) ##Unvote: prplhz | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:09 Forumite wrote: Palmar, your defence of prplhz around the sinani206 lynch is that he was uncomfortable defending a player he thought was Town? That´s still Anti-Town and something most Scum would do, so how is this a defence? It isn't a defense. I didn't defend him around the sinani206 case. As I stated, the post was written as I read through prplhz's posts. If I had stopped there I probably would've voted prplhz, because the two things that are really off on him, are what he did around the sinani206 lynch, and what he did to try to discredit me. I didn't stop reading, I went through, and in the end, despite that I think he's town. I have explained what I think about him, and in great detail how I came to that conclusion. I wasn't straight up defending him, because I only decided my conclusion right at the end of that post. On November 21 2011 23:11 Forumite wrote: That´s not transparency, that´s you trying to trick people into thinking the wagon on prplhz just stopped. If you want transparency, post that you think prplhz is Town with big green letters. Oh no, you saw through my masterplan, I was so sure I would trick people with that! Are you 4real bro? Anyway, if people don't agree with me... just lynch him. I'm not gonna support it because I think he is town. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:51 Forumite wrote: So basically I caught his scummyness around the Day 1 lynch, but since he´s been very carefull in his posting and has managed to convince you to overlook the earlier misstep, even though there is no way to defend what he did. Yes. Why do you care? You're probably town too, and no matter how this goes down I'm going to look bad for it. You're not going to be swayed. Do you not want discussion? You asked for my thoughts, these are my thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:57 Forumite wrote: I recall that this was used as an argument against Kenpachi, people said he was creating chaos because he was accusing people more than he was defending himself. During all this I haven´t found any defence of prplhz. Those who think him Town do this because of the rest of his posts, but noone can find a pro-Town reason for his actions around the sinani lynch, the best that has been presented is Palmar explaining it as prplhz not feeling comfortable to defend someone he thought was Town. You're even misinterpreting what I said: Here's the quote: Actually I'd go out on a limb and say he feels uncomfortably convinced in that read on sinani206. I'll interpret this: "I am not sure prplhz would have the guts to defend sinani206 like that as town" <--- implying he might be scum based on this. I agree that's the most scummy thing prplhz has done this game, does it change the fact that I think he's town? No. Several people have done stupid stuff, yet I don't think they're scum for it. I've said on many occasions that my main weakness as town is to tell apart bad town play and scum play, and I am going with bad town play on this one. You're not going to convince me. But feel free to go out and try to convince others. Maybe you'll prove me wrong and get to say "I told you so". | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:07 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are scum lol. Only mafia ever make that half assumption in an attempt to draw support from a player. Hi RoL. You're wrong, but that's okay, you're probably scum. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:07 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are scum lol. Only mafia ever make that half assumption in an attempt to draw support from a player. Happy birthday yeah. And just to make you look a bit more stupid for not reading the thread, just jumping on something to try and paint me scum, here are some quotes I've written about forumite this game: I have been pretty consistent in my belief forumite is town throughout the game. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Alright, I concede. I was wrong to say all but I'd put money on it that you are most probably scum. And thanks Kitaman. It's not what people do, it's how they do it.  | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:17 Forumite wrote: Just making things clear. It sounded in your post and the unvote like you had the perfect defence for prplhz, but in the end you didn´t touch on the issue that caused all this. What I think is suspicious about you is your defence of prplhz, but that only makes you Scum if prplhz is Scum. That's wrong btw. But we won't have to worry about that until prplhz actually flips. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:48 risk.nuke wrote: Happy Birthday RoL, Palmar, your reasoning includes too much wifom and too little facts. And considering your facts look like this "he doesn't lose sight of the end goal while he's being scrutinized. He has all the while through defending himself kept calling people out for bullshit and attempted to create cases." I guess it's each mans opinion but that doesn't ring true in my ears. I really don't like the fact that you're saying go ahead and vote for him but I won't. What is that? I have laid out the reasons as to why I don't think he's scum. Normally I would be calling everyone who doesn't agree with me a dumbass, but I'm trying my hardest to not be a dick this game. (Ask anyone that's used to playing with me, I'm playing completely differently than my normal town play). So yes, the opinions are on the table. I may even be wrong! But with all the evidence on the table, it's up to each individual to make the decision. Forumite and I looked at the same evidence and came to a different conclusion, but we've both presented our cases. As for an alternative lynch, I would suggest RebirthOfLeGenD. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:18 DCLXVI wrote: I do not think you are mafia prplhz. Though I do think Palmar wants to see you flip town so he looks better. ##Vote Palmar ##Vote Nisani201 I would like to see both die tonight, but i highly doubt palmar will get lynched. I don't believe his claim of being protected, nor do I like the way he argues. His argument on chaoser was forced imo, and he tries too hard to lead the town. I would write about nisani, but it would just be parroting wbg. Go read wbg's case on him, I agree with most of what he says in regards to nisani except the defending chaoser bit. Does anyone notice how absurd these choices of votes are. Now unless you buy into some ridiculous theory we're a scum team and Nisani201 is attempting to bus me, your votes make absolutely no sense. You KNOW that in these two votes you're getting at least 1 townie lynched, and if I'm correct about Nisani201 being innocent you're going after 2 townies. I guess it's hard to see those things when you're not reading the thread. I find this post incredibly scummy. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 04:49 risk.nuke wrote: Dcl's votes are weird. I would suggest that it'd be extremely smart to lynch him. Far more fruitful than killing prplhz. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 07:23 risk.nuke wrote: Tyrren hold your ponies. I'm not sold on prplhz's claim. It doesn't actually matter now that he's been lynched. He could as well claim mafia if he is lol. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 08:15 MrZentor wrote: Great, I come into the game as the most suspicious person here! As surprising as it is, Chaos is not mafia; I am not mafia. There really isn't much I can do to defend myself besides revealing my role, so until I am pressed further by more votes, I will leave it at that. So you're actually conceding that you are not vanilla town? Goddamnit I was fucking right. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On November 22 2011 09:00 DCLXVI wrote: I can confirm that I did visit tyrran last night, I wish you had roleclaimed that earlier prplhz. For what its worth I did not protect Palmar last night, leading me to doubt his claim @harbringer lots of things change when people flip, and i've been sick the past few days, so I have not put nearly as much effort in this game-day. I don't think we have 3 medics. I don't think you actually cared when you voted both me and nisani201 in one post, despite him having just posted an analysis against me. I think you're scum. You have contributed very little to the game, you have posted a ton of fluff cases that look like contributions, yet you have never actively pushed your reads. You just write a cute analysis (look at your kibibit case day 1, does anyone actually remember that?) Here's his filter, it's only 1 page, and on it there is nothing that makes me think he's town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=51709 ##Vote DCLXVI | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
It's for emphasis, I'm trying to start a bandwagon here. Don't rain on my parade. | ||
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