EPTTeam Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Now, for what I said I would post about the setup: Kurumi has said it already. My sugestion is that we no lynch today and save a no lynch for later to prolong this game. This setup has a high chance of benefiting town and generating a lot of info the longer it goes. For people saying "if we don't lynch we have no chance of hitting scum". Sure, but whoever you thought is scummy isn't going to dissapear or if he does that's one saved mislynch. We are basically trading 2 nights of possible info for 1 shot in the dark day1. If someone here can say they are confident someone else is scum and prove it to us, I'm all for lynching. But despite having my suspicions I'm not willing to make this trade based on the odds I think I'm getting. I'd rather wait and no lynch today. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
From an optimization stand point regarding the setup I guarantee you town's chances are higher if we prolong the game by one night. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:59 GMarshal wrote: Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Lynching makes people take stances and react, things like last minute vote switches, counter bandwagons, ect can *only* be seen with a lynch, and usually in the last 2 or so hours of the lynch. My brain hurts. Seriously. You are giving the mafia team the momentum, you are letting them pick who dies. I might be more ok with this, had you pulled it out 1 hour before the lynch with the main targets looking like townies, but not only is it bad, but your timing is atrocious. You've posted this before any cases have solidified or any wagons really formed, you've basically killed any wagons scum might try to start and sabotaged the will of any townies to do analysis because "a no lynch is better". Would you be arguing this if the setup were 7 vts vs 2 reds? Probably not right now, but I could try to do it either way if I didn't like the leading candidate as scum. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Can mafia choose who performs the kill? | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 04 2011 09:11 Forumite wrote: Sure, you can pick this lynch, I´ll pick the next one  Not only he shows that he is not concerned about who we lynch today, but also shows a certainty that he will be around longer. Why exactly do you believe they are town kita? Also my post about no lynch (despite me agreeing with it) was a method to get reads from people. It's a controversial issue and I would expect a strong reaction from townies regarding that topic, but some consideration aswell. Some players raised good points most of which I agree with and some where impartial or aloof. Obviously I'm aware that I would become easy lynch bait for scum to pile on, but that doesn't bother me as I'm sure there are inteligent players here. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Also, how much are you following this game or talking to wbg? It's really strange that you are both on the same page on chaoser/hyshes, since the case is not that strong imo. Do you agree completely with everything wbg has been saying? He usually plays this agressive and forces the issue, but that's not your style from what I gather. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
You built a huge case on chaoser, most of which I think is no indication at all of scum behaviour. The main thing that is bothering me about chaoser's team is the fact that he was posting so much when his ass was on the line, despite saying he would not be playing so activily, coupled with the fact that hyshes is gone after causing suspicion to be placed on his team. That is indeed suspicious behaviour from the team as a whole, but a couple other things like hyshes openess in the beginning and chaoser's posts make me lean town on them. You on the other hand completely dismissed the case you build on chaoser despite claiming both you and your teamate being on the same page on it. All of that because I pointed to the fact that were you town your team was the most obvious shot. The bullshit about blue snipe makes no sense. Your team had the same chance of being medic/jailer as igrok's team or any other team. It makes no sense that scum would leave you alive to try to push your team today, as you had no previous suspicion on you before. Scum is not willing to fight this uphill battle and expose themselves in the process. This is a fact: If your team is town your team was the best shot by far based on both skill and activity. That's not equal you are scum by itself, since scum not always play optimaily and can sometimes try to be tricky. But it IS a reason to be suspicious. What really points toward you being scum is you dismissing your case and changing your vote because I called one team another name. That says shit about my aligment and is no reason to vote. You are pushing scum agenda since you are voting whoever is suspicious of you, and not looking at the big picture of who is saying things with scum mentality (which is you). | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Also I' was not speculating at all about igrok's kill. I was saying that it is a fact that if you and rad are town you would be the best shot. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Now onto some speculation, blue sniping is shit in such a small game. Blues are not going to be inactive because they are trying to hide, since because there are so few players their behaviour will be extremelly exposed as oposed to a huge game when they can blend in. That's not to say it wasn't the case, but the whole point of this game is determining which scenarios are most likely. I can't find any good reasoning for igrok/bum kill besides you guys being scum. If scum wanted to simply push more suspicion onto my team they could have killed you guys either way and igrok would prob vote for me today. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
I'm hoping radfield could post more tomorrow and tell me what he thinks so I can actually get a more acurate read without having to sort through all your nonsense. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
You also acuse me of pushing easy lynches when I'm saying you are scum now and previously said I didn't want to lynch anyone day1. Huh? | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Don't lynch my team, we are not scum. ##Unvote ##Vote: Team nipple | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 08 2011 05:39 Kurumi wrote: That's the worst argument I've ever heard. First, I am not trolling because I am trying to treat this game seriously, I haven't played in a while. Second, I wasn't trolling in LSB's game - Merc Mini 2. I was town. I died N1. Fucking tripmines. Third, RoL told me he would beat me up if I would troll. Also, both Your cases are fucking bad as hell. "Radfield alive, Radfield scum!" "Kurumi not troll, Kurumi scum!" Exactly how are you treating this game seriously? I was waiting for you to point LSB game out, because it's true, you didn't troll that game and you were town. However, you invested a lot of time in that game and was actively calling people out and trying to succeed. This game you have done nothing, so your excuse can't be that you are trying to treat it seriously. An excuse that would be acceptable is that you have been busy and had no time to troll, but that's not the truth. The truth is that you are provinding exactly that: excuses for your "hide in a corner" behaviour. RoL is not even here to stop you from doing anything and it's not like you listen to anyone even when the whole town is telling you to stop trolling (ie personality mafia). You scum bro. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
2. I acused wbg of being mafia after he dropped his case on chaoser and switched his vote to me due to a typo. Previously I said the fact that rad/wbg were not shot was suspcious, but not enough to assure they are mafia. Now I'm not really sure anymore on wbg anymore, because he could very well believe so much he is right and be completely wrong as proven by XLV, which I read to refresh my memory. 3. I layed a trap for kurumi when saying he was not trolling and thus mafia and he responded in a way that makes me feel very confident he is mafia, as pointed out in my post about his behaviour. 4. The other contributing factor that leads me to believe wbg may indeed be town and misguided is the fact that chaoser is looking worse and worse, sheeping wbg who he previously believed was mafia and voting me. I went against his lynch when wbg was pushing it as loudly as he is pushing mine right now. If he was town he would know that I had to be really stupid as mafia to do that in that spot. Chaoser doesn't share this mentality (which a townie would for sure consider), so I believe he is more likely to be mafia than wbg right now. The fact that he dissapeared the moment the focus shifted away from him and now he is back supporting someone he previously called scum to make sure a townie gets lynched is enough to tip the scale heavily towards chaoser being scum as opposed to wbg. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 04 2011 11:10 sandroba wrote: I agree with you that supersoft is likely town, but I'm interested in your reasoning for forumite/prplhz. This particular post from forumite is pretty scummy to me: Not only he shows that he is not concerned about who we lynch today, but also shows a certainty that he will be around longer. Why exactly do you believe they are town kita? Also my post about no lynch (despite me agreeing with it) was a method to get reads from people. It's a controversial issue and I would expect a strong reaction from townies regarding that topic, but some consideration aswell. Some players raised good points most of which I agree with and some where impartial or aloof. Obviously I'm aware that I would become easy lynch bait for scum to pile on, but that doesn't bother me as I'm sure there are inteligent players here. In retrospect I admit that I didn't explain much. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 08 2011 06:58 kitaman27 wrote: You're hammered. You're not allowed to taunt us if we're wrong  I thought you could post non-game related stuff? I'm not giving away any more reads or anything, it's all in good fun =P | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
GM in this game claims doctor at night. At that point no one was set on lynching anyone and scum was in a good position. Scum had information about roles of 3 townies dead 1 (potential) check and 1 claim. They didn't even need to kill the doctor to win since the cop is parity and town couldn't no lynch day 3. So what benefit claiming in that spot generates for scum? In the scenario there is a jailer or doctor you can't even guarantee they will cc you on the spot since the best play is to remain hidden and cc during the day (worst case scenario you get shot as blue either way and your flip is a cc). So in the best case scenario someone cc's you and you kill them if you already didn't know their role. That puts you in the position gm was in day3: A lot of suspicion onto you and as scum you almost feel like you will get lynched after this no matter what. All this for a possible piece of info you didn't need to win the game. This goes extremelly against the mentality of scum and is not good play for them. In the scenario there is no other blue you won't know it even if there is no cc until the begining of day3. Even then you are forever forbidden of shooting the parity cop until you die or you trade yourself for him. So you are in the same spot as before. The only difference is that if town lynches correctly day3 you auto day 4 lose instead of 50% lose. Both scenarios put you in a worst position than you were before you claimed and both it draws a fuckton of suspicion onto you for no reason because of the timing of the claim. There is very little chance scum would do that. Scum may pass up on a opportunity to make a balsy and lucrative claim because of fear, but they very rarely make a terrible unproffitable claim despite fear. That's my take on it. Regarding the game wbg played well, you unfortunatelly had xlv as alibi, so I couldn't trust you to be reasonable =P. Rad being afk help you too because I couldn't be sure that he was reading closely or accepting w/e you were saying by default. My mini case on kurumi unfortunately got ignored but that proved he was scum day2 =/ | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Yes scum could have done the same, but why would they? Again, it gains them no cred and stops them from killing the parity cop. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
And I don't even think you even believe that. You are just trying to win an argument. A claim is only good if it improves your chances of winning. Otherwise it's bad or irrelevant at best. It's that simple. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:30 Ace wrote: Because you know it won't get you lynched - thats the bottom line. I mean jeez, it's not like I myself on this very forum in a game you were in haven't fake claimed as Scum and destroyed the Town just because I could. It advances my win condition by making people think I'm Town. Did I die? No. Good, my role claim holds and now there is 1 Scum member outside the pool of suspects. Unless you've got some epic examples to prove otherwise with players better than me doing it multiple times I'm not buying that shit. Your claim in sleeper cell improved our chances of winning, was backed up by my claim and made sense. It gained you cred, justified you being alive at that point and helped keep you and your teamates alive. So it furthered your goals. This can't be said about GM's claim this game, as it would not have furthered his goals, as demonstrated in my previous post. At best they would be in a equal standing compared to before the claim. At worse it would completely hamper his chances of winning the game. And how exactly can you quantify how good you are and another player is? It's kind of a biased opinion don't you agree? | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:33 chaoser wrote: This is just WIFOM. If GM was actually mafia and pulled that shit you would have been fucked. The same way if kita was mafia and pulled a pc claim we would all have been fucked. Does that make it likely he did it as mafia on that spot? No. Everyone believe him because that was an extreme and unecessary risk for mafia to take at that spot. Just like GM's. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:21 Ace wrote: There is only one such thing as a bad claim for Scum: Will I get lynched or lose the game for my team? If the answer is no, then it is a good claim. I've already explained this earlier in the thread. GM faked a roleclaim as Town and DID NOT GET LYNCHED. He could have done the same as Scum and hey guess what - CRED! Fuck it, it's LYLO - he doesn't even need major cred. He only needs to avoid being lynched. "Hai guys I know that dead medic over there contradicts my story but I have an excuse for why I lied even though it doesn't tell you guys jack shit about me being Town -lolz 4real believe me". WBG even pointed out that there was nothing in the scenario regarding the check on him that tells you anything about GMs alignment. Literally you could have switched WBG and GM, lynched a Townie and then what? You're really going to make the same argument? Laughable. Seriously just ditch this forum and go play somewhere else. Pathetic level mafia games being played by the same pathetic players month after month and people are still falling for the same amateur level shit. Except that WBG was mafia and didn't make that claim. I wonder why? Also no one is saying that fake claim = town. You are saying that fake claim = lynch and that is PROVEN to not always be the correct play. Each and every piece of info this game provides you has to be analysed and considered, there isn't a flow chart of reactions proven to always work. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:45 chaoser wrote: One day I'mma pull a claim like this and then win the game with it. If you want to gamble like that, I don't think mafia is your game of preference =P | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:45 Ace wrote: In Sleeper Cell I had the Town under my thumb from Day 1. Did I really need to claim? We could have easily won anyway without my claim right? Thats what I'm telling you. As long as I know I have a high chance of winning that is the final truth. There is no complex scenario here. Your claim was icing on the cake but we could have won even with me getting lynched. You keep acting as if every Scum player has this irrational fear of doing things that might get them caught when that only applies to scrubs. GM could have done the same thing here as Scum. And this is what you guys don't seem to understand. As scum he could claim medic and EVEN IF HE GOT LYNCHED if he believes his team can win then that shits on any excuse any of you have. I've already outlined how a Scum GM can play it the same way and win the game. Read the post if you keep refusing to believe me. Answer this if you're so confident. What is the difference between Scum GM and Town GM here? Both of them lied about their claim and can't be verified. In what world does it make sense for the Town to even keep a player alive at LYLO that can't be verified but you've just seen the actual role flip. The difference is that scum GM will for the great majority of time never make that claim in that spot. Ask him if you don't believe me. Knowing that makes me believe he is town in that spot the vast majority of the time. So lynching him is negative e.v. | ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
| ||
|
sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:54 Ace wrote: No shit you lynch the Fake Claim. Look let's keep it simple smart guy: Who is more inclined to lie in a game of Mafia? What happens more often? A Townie lying for the sake of the Town or Scum lying? Thanks. This is why I'm better than all of you. Depends on the situation. Certain situations make no sense for mafia to be lying for no gain. If you keep generalising everything you are going to lose a fair bit of games that you could have won had you analysed each scenario separately. Clearly this is an issue of who is better than whom. Am I bothering you by being right when you are wrong? | ||
| ||
