Pick Your Power Interesting! - Page 54

On October 18 2011 12:51 Mig wrote:
I have talked a good bit with palmar but I wouldn't say I am a conspirator, most of what he has done this game he has not discussed with me.

I do know he claims that you have claimed to him, is this true? And he has not told me what your role is but he has told me it would be powerful for scum. Do you agree with that statement?

On October 18 2011 12:50 hiro protagonist wrote:


Saying stuff like this is not helping. Its not a townie thing to do. It actively quells discussion. Stop it.

On October 18 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:


oh look a derp who seems to want to call me scum

On October 18 2011 13:31 hiro protagonist wrote:

Saying stuff like this is not helping. Its not a townie thing to do. It actively quells discussion. Stop it.

On October 17 2011 21:51 Arctocod wrote:


Alright town, I think we have our lynch of the day.

Summary, for those of you looking for the tl;dr version:

• Meapak casually and without responsibility gives his thoughts on the setup
  What does this even mean
  
• Meapak decides to run for mayor
  Yes
  
• Meapak trashes the very town-looking mig/radfield train and accuses me of being scum
  We're barely into this thing and you've already logic failed. There was no "mig/rad" train. What there was was rad on one side and Mig/syllo/sandro on the other side. To me (and apparently the majority of the town since Rad got elected lolol) Mig was not the towniest looking candidate. I accuse you of being scum because you've
  been absolutely worthless this game... which is ironically what your argument against me is
  
• Meapak withdraws his application
  yes
  
• Meapak claims roleblock on his invention
  This is what happened. Don't see how this helps you :/
  

Now here's the story from A-Z, if you wanna get with me you've gotta listen carefully.

Opening thoughts

First off, Meapak writes two pretty bland posts about how we should be picking roles and what we should be doing with them, it's not to terribly revealing in itself.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11796175

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11800108

Now, you see, this could simply be a townie who's not quite sure how to play the game. What's especially revealing is that meapak feels the need to make sure that this is just his speculations. If we pick him up on the advice and it turns out it sucks, he cannot be held responsible.

Why make this post if you're town?

First PYP game, I've obviously read the previous ones but never the picking part because that was boring. Sue me if I was a little unsure what was going on



It only accomplishes two things. First off it reduces the chances people will listen to him, something townies do NOT want, and it throws away responsibility, something mafia really does want.

lolol this is just retarded

Candidacy

Now as for his candidacy, it's basically thrown together, and is solely based on the fact that he's the inventor. There is nothing in it except an attempt at suggesting a ridiculously overpowered invention in the hopes of catching us in his net.

But really, that's about it. There is nothing in this that makes me think he's town. He expects to be voted through the power of his role alone. This is something mafia would like, as it's a free ride to the mayor position.

He isn't even arguing who should be lynched or trying to paint himself town.

This is a fair point. I honestly thought I'd be more active. Unfourtunately I wasn't and as a result my campaign failed. In hindsight it would have been better to keep my role undercover... until you come role fishing of course because that's how things work amirite?

Sowing mistrust

His next big post is really bad.




Apparently I am the scummiest person in the game for supporting townies, and the townie train we have now in the lead of town is something no one should vote for?

Meapak is actively trying to throw mistrust into a very successful day one townie circle thing, and thus he's directly pushing mafia objectives. Another damning thing from this is that he actually doesn't follow up at all his poke on me, and in the end he ends up supporting radfield into office, who is clearly part of the townie circle with Mig.

Meapak hasn't actually tried to find scum at all this game.

lol so because you say so syllo/mig are townies? That's the same bad logic you used in the first place which caused me to call you scummy. I was not alone voicing suspicons of your little "town train" Any townie should have questioned and not taken something like that for truth.

Your other "damning thing" is stupid as well. I support radfield BECAUSE he's not connected with Mig, c'mon Palmar have you even been reading this game?

For comparison

This is meapak's day 1 play as town in experimental haunted mafia:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250999&user=82024&user=82024

Just notice the actively asking questions, directly pointing out people and making sure they reply to him. This is something meapak is sure as hell not doing this game.


lol this is a terrible example. If anyone reads it they'd see that I'm playing fairly similar. The only difference being that in drh's game my reads were all 100% and in this game I haven't enjoyed quite the same luck
Conclusion:

Meapak has not pushed his reads, he's chosen to play his hand tight, he has not tried scumhunting and he's not been useful for town. All he has done is try to plant mistrust and passively push mafia agenda. His meta is far removed from his play in EHM where he was town.

Yeah, I haven't pushed my reads too hard, that's a fair criticism. But there are at least three or four people who can vouch that I was going to go after bumatlarge today. Bum died and flipped town so understandably I've had to do some recalculations. The rest of this is poor. Of course I've played my hand tight, 40something percent of this game is mafia, I'd be a fool if I went around spouting shit off (like people have apparently been doing to you). My inventor claim was ill timed given my activity level but irl events outside of my control ruined that for me. As I said earlier, my scumreads got shot to shit after last night so I haven't had an oppertunity to really go after someone yet. No where have I planted mistrust of push a scum agenda unless you count me questioning Mig/syllo which isn't planting mistrust merely healthy sceptecism of an extrememly early day one declaration of townieness driven solely by some still unseen skype conversations. As I've already gone over, my meta isn't that far off from EHM.

Meapak is scum

##Vote Meapak_Ziphh

On October 18 2011 12:23 Mig wrote:
Right now I lean town on Sand I won't deny I have some suspicions but he has been very open with me on skype and actually helped me scum hunt and regardless there are clear better targets.

Right now I really do not like wiggles, meapak or foolish.

Foolish your entire goal and all your play day1 was centered around not getting shot. Well now that that has happened maybe you could actually post your opinions and thoughts on people? It really doesn't matter if you survive in the game if you are completely useless constantly. Your support of greymist over a more experienced candidate was also hella shady. If scum were playing optimally the last thing they would want is me or radfield protected, greymist would be a much safer choice for them to push.

On October 18 2011 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:
The way I see it is, we all know Foolishness is usually policy shot first day if he is town. Knowing this, he should have been posting like a monster, trying to get as much figured out for the town as possible before he dies. The fact that he has been doing quite the opposite of this worries me.

##Vote Foolishness

On October 17 2011 22:58 prplhz wrote:
what i don't like about a guy like foolishness is that he's one of those names you hear a lot on this forum, but he hasn't done anything in this game yet. just about all of his posts so far have been him supporting wbg or otherwise talking about wbg related stuff, but the second decon pointed out that they might be connected, they both start distancing themselves for each other. wbg, who actively pushed for foolishness's election now says that foolishness is a null tell because of a bout of inactiveness. foolishness, as you can see in my log says

citing what might be the most obvious flaws in wbg's play, the guy is ALWAYS spontaneous and he NEVER thinks things through and he's ALWAYS so freakin annoying. so why did foolishness even talk to him in the first place? foolishness could have talked to anyone but he mostly decides to just talk to wbg, this seems weird to me unless they are somehow connected. i ask him why he even bothered with wbg in the first place with his obvious character flaws and foolishness says

so foolishness also talked to chaoser and kita in PMs and since he was really busy he must have talked to them quite a bit. they were both scum, but did he talk about that in the thread at all? no. foolishness is supposed to be a guy who picks up on stuff and even though he's actively PMing with two scum he doesn't pick up on ANYTHING. weird.

also he says that he was really busy first day but people might not know. well, if town don't know about your activity then what good is it to us?

he almost knew everything about everybody in the game, but then not really so now he's just lurking it out. wat?!

no pushing his views at all, just saying that meapak is scum. honestly, i've been getting a lot of "meapak is scum" lately so there might be something about it but foolishness' entire argument is 10 words long. sounds like he didn't give it any thoughts at all.

finally there's his connection with wbg that i want to talk about. first wbg struck me as being a lot less chaotic than he used to be but when he changed that i thought that maybe he'd just fallen into his lotr ways where he almost got lynched day1 for being insane. but still, "i'm insane" is not a good excuse for being insane. i get a lot more scummyness from foolishness because of my past experiences with wbg, but the two are so interconnected that one's flip will surely affect my read on the other.

foolishness needs to step it up

##Vote Foolishness

On October 18 2011 14:32 Mig wrote:
Foolish you are misconstruing part of my argument. If me/rad are mafia then we have only 3 teammates to support us. Regardless of our alignment you would agree it is bad for the other mafia teams if we were in power yes? Please tell me what mafia team in the universe would ever want radfield to be invincible unless he was on his team?

Also lol at thinking rad is being manipulated. And you act like a possible leak has crippled town. Last I checked 5-6 scum are most likely going to be dead after 2 days here. So please lay off the fear mongering. We are clearly not in a bad position lol.

Now more importantly instead of just defending yourself, who is scum and why? You talk about being busy behind the scenes yes? So what have you accomplished? Where is your analysis? Instead of giving us 1 line about how you would probably vote sandroba how about actually giving us some details?

On October 18 2011 14:22 Foolishness wrote:
I'm going to try to get everyone who mentioned me in this post, and say everything of relevance. I can't answer everything at once so don't get all pissy if I only answered 9 out of 10 of your questions. In no particular order:

No, my plan was not centered around getting shot. My plan was centered on getting shit done because I assumed I would be shot. Of any of the candidates proposed so far I'd vote for sandroba, but this isn't news to anyone. But speaking of him, you say that he's been open on skype and helped you scum hunt. Believe it or not there are some people who would be able to vouch that for me too. But that's not what this is about. I'll give you my situation is worse than his because he was active at the beginning of day 1 and was proven to be very involved in the ongoings of the town. However since then he's done zilch in the thread besides respond with witty and snarky comments (he learned from me!!!).

Enough about this Greymist crap. That's a sorry excuse to use as gunpowder. I am not the only one who voted for Greymist or agreed that he should be elected, many others expressed the same concerns that I did. The Radfield/sandroba/syllogism/Mig group (hence know as the "Radfield Group" in this post) seemed to easy to be under mafia influence. Greymist showed to me that he had honest intentions for the town and that he was competent enough to use them. And I'm not the only one he did this to. Radfield had honest intentions for the town but I couldn't help but think he was being manipulated by mafia.

And I kept telling people that it's very likely there's a mafia in Radfield's group. And everyone I told this to said, "no, I've talked with them all in PM, they all townies". Finally days later Radfield tells me:

[7:12:07 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): my little group
[7:12:07 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): has a little leak
[7:12:08 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): in my opinion

Also don't forget in Radfield's recent post he said "OK, we have a problem town."

Yeah I tried to warn you guys about this happening but nobody listened and everyone chose to point fingers instead. You guys have only yourself to blame as to why Palmar seems to know everything about everyone, despite the fact that nobody seems to be talking to him.

I voted for Greymist because I knew he wouldn't let something like that happened. I'm pretty sure a few others were thinking along the same lines as me. If Greymist flips town would you still say it was mafia-like to push him into office?

I would also like to say this to Mig, although it may apply to a few others as well, that you are quick to jump on anyone that does anything that is anti-Radfield or anti-sandroba. You say that "If scum were playing optimally the last thing they would want is me or radfield protected" yet you (most likely) cannot 100% prove that Radfield (or sandroba or syllogism or all 3) is town. And even if you could now you couldn't before elections started. Stop sucking up to players in your little blue circle which, in case you forgot, the leader of which claims there's a leak in.

Don't base your arguments around "well he went against Radfield/sandroba/Mig he must be playing for the mafia". Go find your leak before it's too late.

I'll agree that I haven't been posting like a monster, but the latter part of the sentence I have been doing. Also I really hope we are all above policy lynching here, we're all good players here, if you want to policy lynch why not role a die to decide who dreamflower is shooting tonight?

**Note I removed some of the content from prplhz's original post cause of the shear length, please go read his original for the irc logs and for more information.

I'm just going to ignore anything you say relating to wbg, because that has nothing to do with me being scum. Unless you want to accuse both of us being scum, and if that's the case then say so. But have fun trying to make that one work.

Yes I was PMing with chaoser and kitaman. You say I didn't pick up anything but how would you know? I'm not part of the Radfield group, I make sure my information is kept in the right people. Even today I told Radfield a few things and I'm sure the entire town knows by now. You seem to be connected indirectly to the Radfield group and I have no reason to trust you of course you're not going to know anything about me.

And yes, because I was talking to chaoser and kitaman I thought I had an idea on who they were shooting that night. And had it turn out the way I thought it would I would have had a big lead on some mafia, but that's not the way the cookie crumbled. Of course thanks to the Radfield group everyone knew about how chaoser died. drp

What have I done for the town? Let me tell you a few things I have not done. I have not put my blind trust in 3 or more players from the beginning of the game (and consequently not making sure said people know everything I've done including what I'm eating for breakfast). I have not been responsible for Palmar finding out an obscene amount of information he should not know. I have not been part of a town circle that has leaked information. I have not become town leader only to tell the town "oops, we're actually in a bad position because information is spreading faster than Yogi Bear steals picnic baskets."

---

To anything that Palmar has ever said:

On October 18 2011 15:29 Mig wrote:
Foolish why are you so hostile. You should calm down on the anger front here friend.

First of all I don't think my logic is wrong however I never said it was the only reason I was suspicious of you. Scum do not always play 100% optimally anyway, decon is likely scum and he voted radfield, but I really don't know how you can argue that mafia would ever want radfield in power. So understand it makes you more suspicious but by no means do I assume it automatically means you are scum just for that.

Also where is this bashing coming from? You are trying to say I have had no opinions this game and I just follow what others tell me? I have to disagree with that.

And so what your suggestion is we start to kill people in the mayor circle in the hopes of finding the leak, also we should be killing from the top of the list why exactly? How about since you think we have so many problems with leaks we just rely on analysis instead of roles?

You have spent almost 2 full days in your own little pm circle and you haven't posted in the thread whatsoever before now. So what I want to know is where is the information you have gained? What are your opinions on meapak/wiggles? After 2 days the only thing I hear from you is we should shoot sandroba because he could be the leak and because his activity has changed. Is that really all you have?

On October 18 2011 13:42 Jackal58 wrote:

But HE GOES TO BERKLEY!!!!!!!

On October 18 2011 10:05 Jackal58 wrote:
Meapak isn't inventor. He's NRA. Somebody else on his team is inventor.