EPTPick Your Power Interesting! - Page 17
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JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On October 13 2011 04:18 sandroba wrote: We will have no control no matter what. Mafia gets assigned assassin, they take w/e the fuck they want in their top pick and leave the last guy on the team to pick assassin. Until we lynch/kill the top pick guy assassin lays low and when he finally dies we still have THE SAME PROBLEM which is the hidden assassin. Acomplishes nothing. Just because assassin can do that doesn't when that'll work for the other roles. Inventor is easy enough to see. So if thief and role swapper. And it's not like the top people will be "staying low" the whole point of this is to put inherent pressure on those in the top. Every single thing they say and do will be scrutinized. Also, it's easy enough to confirm top assassin. We'll have a bunch of investigative roles like you said we should get so once we find a mafia we make the assassin kill them then and there. The PM sent is secret but the death is immediate so we can see that they're doing it. Even if they're mafia killing another mafia family, it's still an action that's under our control. We can decrease the top 5 list into a top 3 list if that's better but so far accountability is better than nothing. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On October 13 2011 04:24 JimboSilvers wrote: As someone (kita I think) so eloquently pointed out, we can assign all we want, but it's not going to help us keep them accountable. Look at it from their point of view: If you get assigned inventor, pick Hero or BP, let a teammate pick inventor. If we find out, we vig/lynch the top player. Sure it's a red, but it doesn't help the fact that we still don't know where the inventor is. Make sense? On October 13 2011 04:26 heist wrote: And as Radfield put it, the alternative is not knowing who the inventor is AND not getting a red kill. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:11 kitaman27 wrote: Draft pick orders are public? Are they? I don't remember. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Jimbo, I hear what you're saying, and agree with much of it. I also understand your point analogy very well. However in this case I'm imagining that the accountability picks are effective against all three mafia teams, hence giving us a leg up on all of them. Not only vs 1 particular team(in fact I'm not even sure how that would work at this stage) I also agree that it is likely the top picks will be fiercely targeted by the mafia. However, I'm ok with that as if the thief, Roleswapper and assassin all die that is ok with me. Inventor we want to protect, and we can heap our protection upon him. Also, and I want to stress this, mafia are more likely to have those dangerous top spots. Although there are more townies numerically, each mafia team gets to co-ordinate their picks, meaning they are far less likely to collide. This means that the potential killing ground of picks 1-5 is not so bad for town after all. And since mafia are getting those top picks anyways, we might as well assign them to them, no? On October 13 2011 03:23 syllogism wrote: So what happens if we assign, say, thief to #1 and he ends up being mafia, picks Hero/veteran instead and lets his buddy near the bottom get thief who then steals inventor or some other role? The #1 player can claim RB for instance, so we will have to waste a check on him anyway and even then there's the issue of actually lynching him. I suppose we can still deal with it if town has KP, but they could also have a medic role. The point being, the setup is quite complex and I'm not completely convinced the perceived "accountability" is worth the trade of having mafia know where the roles are. There's even no guarantee that town will get the role cop roles. This is an excellent point. In fact, I think the main problem people have with the accountability picks is the threat of mafia letting the picks slip down to a scumbuddy. So, what if we added in a player who takes one of the top picks randomly, just to see if there is slippage going on: #1 Inventor #2 Assassin #3 Thief #4 Role Swapper #5 25% chance of either Inventor, Assassin, Thief or Swapper or #1 Inventor #2 Thief #3 Role Swapper #4 33% chance of either Inventor, Thief or Swapper Something like this. That makes it much more risky to try and let a role slip down to a scum buddy. Honestly, I'm not necessarily sold that we NEED to have accountability picks, but I do think they have potential to be advantageous to town. Keep in mind, the only real goal is to NOT let the inventor fall into the hands of an anonymous mafia player. I think this is a good goal, and one worthy of discussion. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 13 2011 03:48 kitaman27 wrote: Well by not including it in your tier list or "top 28 town roles" list, you're essentially suggesting that it doesn't have much value. I'm saying I still think its one of the most powerful roles and if we're going to have a town priority list, it needs to be present. You're right. CPR doc should be on the priority list. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
If the person asigned to check it is Town and manages to get the role then great, you get a very strong role and a Scum player right at the start. If the person he checks took the role assigned to him, then we lose a potentially high pick. The big problem will be , however, if the person checking is Scum. He could mess with town fairly easily He could lie about taking the role and taking something else , which is strong for his team. Its a win/win for him, if the other guy is Scum too and did not take the role, then he can't really say something, since it would expose him too. If the guy took the role assigned to him, then he did not lie and get a free role for himself. If 1 faction is really lucky and coordinated and has 2 people in the top five, they have a ton of ways to mess with us as well and the second guy could claim VT or something and take godfather. How could anyone identify easily where the scum went active after that? | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
 If we all take pro-town roles that mafia have no interest in, and let mafia juke it out for the anti-town ones. They haven little/no incentive for taking the pro-town roles as said above, as its too much of a disadvantage vs their rivals, This will probably end up with a much higher chance of mafia overlapping on picks and means that we'll have a much higher amount of good town roles in the game. Variant: We make out a full list of picks and leave all the anti-town roles out of it. If mafia want to take one of them, they have to lie about their pick which we may be able to pick up on later. This relies on everyone cooperating and means that townie's roles will be exposed (mafia can/will lie and pick elsewhere). It makes it a lot easier to catch mafia out however. Thoughts? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Too bad watcher doesn't work like normal. I just thought that we could assign inventor, and then have a watcher on him every single night. That would ward off hits and stop role-thiefs. If the inventor ever claimed to have his role stolen, or died, then the watcher would have a short-list for the culprit. Too bad it's only number, and not identity.  No back-fires that medics don't have as well, either.I'm getting what Jimbo is saying and where he's coming from, but I think I'm leaning towards Radfield's plan. The only drawback for that, is if a townie is dumb and doesn't pick what he's supposed to, because then we run into problems for if a mafia grabs their role lower down the list. A good thing, would be to probably just assign the inventor, then maybe the role-stealing roles, like Radfield is saying. This lets us keep roles where they should be, and only lets mafia kill or RB inventor, not steal it. Then the rest of town just focus on picking pro-town roles, and we can perhaps make a tier-list to avoid overlap. Have we explored the possibility of using PMs to help with role-picking at all? I think there might be a way they could be utilized, but can't come up with a plan to use them off the top of my head. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote: ^That's basically what Sandroba said. Too bad watcher doesn't work like normal. I just thought that we could assign inventor, and then have a watcher on him every single night. That would ward off hits and stop role-thiefs. If the inventor ever claimed to have his role stolen, or died, then the watcher would have a short-list for the culprit. Too bad it's only number, and not identity. No back-fires that medics don't have as well, either.I'm getting what Jimbo is saying and where he's coming from, but I think I'm leaning towards Radfield's plan. The only drawback for that, is if a townie is dumb and doesn't pick what he's supposed to, because then we run into problems for if a mafia grabs their role lower down the list. A good thing, would be to probably just assign the inventor, then maybe the role-stealing roles, like Radfield is saying. This lets us keep roles where they should be, and only lets mafia kill or RB inventor, not steal it. Then the rest of town just focus on picking pro-town roles, and we can perhaps make a tier-list to avoid overlap. Have we explored the possibility of using PMs to help with role-picking at all? I think there might be a way they could be utilized, but can't come up with a plan to use them off the top of my head. Unless an invention could buff the watchers power? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:05 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Unless an invention could buff the watchers power? Inventions can only be used once, so it wouldn't work, and it doesn't do anything to help on the first night, which is likely when mafia will strike. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:08 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Or we could choose to elect the inventor, thus making him immune to attack? I like that idea, although it gives an incredible amount of power to a single player and prevents anybody from role checking him. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:17 kitaman27 wrote: I like that idea, although it gives an incredible amount of power to a single player and prevents anybody from role checking him. On October 03 2011 14:51 Protactinium wrote: Role Changelog: Elected officials no longer are immune to role checks. We're good, there. Also, it's not as bad as normal if red's elected, because his first lynch has the possibility of hitting other mafia, and he doesn't represent all of the mafia. The only problem, is cover roles. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6788 Posts
On October 13 2011 06:08 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Or we could choose to elect the inventor, thus making him immune to attack? I like this idea, a lot tbh. This brings up the subject of elections. Do we try and elect from people within the top spots to try and give them a little extra protection? Personally I see this as a great way to reduce the strain on our medics and give roles such as the inventor a longer lifespan. If the inventor turns out to be mafia then we'd known pretty quickly because he wouldn't be inventing stuff that helps the town. In that case he's outed himself and we lynch a scum. The only real damage a mafia mayor can do is with his lynch and even then, if he lynches someone who's been helping the town then we can just lynch him the next day. I see no real downside to making the inventor mayor. The upsides of having a near invincible townie far outweigh the downsides of having to burn a lynch on the mayor. Think about it, the mayor's lynch is going to be closely scrutinized and every invention is going to be scrutinized as well. If the mayor/inventor is scum then they HAVE to do what the town wants in order to stay alive. And even if they're scum and they do whatever we want but get caught by a DT, it's not like the mayor is unlynchable :D | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6788 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I see the term being thrown around but I don't believe it was specified. | ||
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