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On September 28 2011 05:12 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:39 Pyo wrote:On September 28 2011 01:28 Palmar wrote:
it makes no sense for mafia to claim what drazerk has claimed. If he was actually mafia he could've just said he protected me (I got iGrok lyncheD), chaoser (could be a vigi, although he's an SK), or Kita (claimed tracker).
Drazerkery is not scum, he's bad, but not scum.
I liked day 1 and day 2 Palmar better than the "usual" Palmar who has returned for day 4. Palmar, you did not get iGrok lynched. GGQ had more to do with getting Palmar lynched than you did. Stop saying that. Additionally, iGrok was hardcore bussed starting at least before day 2. One thing I've learned thanks to Curu in the last mafia game is that when someone is saying something stupid or wrong, over and over again despite being told otherwise multiple times, they're scum. So stop saying that you are confirmed town; you're not. In fact, how about this? Let's go ahead and confirm your alignment. ##vote: PalmarPS... I haven't forgotten about ON. Yeah, town deserves to lose this.
Yeah so carry on with your trolling; it's doing a lot to help.
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On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared.
I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead.
But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk.
On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia.
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On September 28 2011 05:37 GreYMisT wrote:
Chaoser, you mentioned earlier when you role-claimed that you can shoot when certain requirements are met. care to devulge those now that it is pretty much between you and kit in my eyes?
No, I don't. Would it help you make a decision? Cause I don't see how my telling you what my requirements are is going to help. There is a chance people are able to make me unable to do my requirement and so I can't shoot mafia anymore. That is the most I am willing to say.
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Im going to go ahead and ##Unvote Heist. He has not posted much at all today. While I still think he should be looked at, we have much bigger targets.
Trance, if Kitaman is not mafia, do you believe Chaoser is the SK and not blue as he claims?
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On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia.
I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again.
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On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again.
Not to mention his actions as his role doesn't make sense:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699¤tpage=104#2075
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On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again.
Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities.
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On September 28 2011 05:49 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again. Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities.
Radfield, who was mafia, already thought I was a third party. Him announcing it so late is also due to the fact that he was deciding on whether he wanted to do it or not. He could have claimed he tracked me early right after the flip. He waited 7 hours until he did it and when asked why he said "he wanted to see what I was going to do" except he never asks me any questions before that, never talks to me before that. It make no sense.
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Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On September 28 2011 05:53 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker.
I still think SS was hit by third party over mafia until a vigilante owns up to hitting me
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On September 28 2011 05:53 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker.
But yeah I agree it's weird he has been able to survive this long ( Considering we have been role blocked / shot at each night since announcing our blueness )
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After thinking it over I am inclined to believe that Chaoser is telling the truth.
1) the past 2 times he has killed, he has expressed suspicion of that person in the thread, and has attacked from a town agenda (pushed for prp's lynch day1 and a lot of us were suspicious of radfield)
2) His play does not say SK to me at all. Rather than attacking threats to himself, he is activly hunting scum
3) I dont think he is scum (because of the radfield kill)
With that said, I think Kitaman is our best canidate atm, As Chaoser pointed out there are some very odd things about the way his role claim happened. His day1 play seemed slightly off to me as well. Only did one pressure vote, didnt any real opinions, just defending/clarifying points, then jumped on the errandor wagon when it appeared. the rest has already been mentioned many times.
##Vote Kitaman
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On September 28 2011 05:56 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:53 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker. But yeah I agree it's weird he has been able to survive this long ( Considering we have been role blocked / shot at each night since announcing our blueness )
Drazerk, you say all this and yet you're still voting for palmer. Are you willing to change your vote to kitaman?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On September 28 2011 06:09 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On September 28 2011 05:53 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker. But yeah I agree it's weird he has been able to survive this long ( Considering we have been role blocked / shot at each night since announcing our blueness ) Drazerk, you say all this and yet you're still voting for palmer. Are you willing to change your vote to kitaman?
I unvoted ages ago I am still undecided how I am going to vote
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On September 28 2011 05:55 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:53 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention it's strange that he was neither roleblocked or killed. Instead, supersoft was hit, someone who wasn't contributing much at all and was basically a lurker. I still think SS was hit by third party over mafia until a vigilante owns up to hitting me
I think stabbed through the chest is mafia flavor.
Also, Drazerk. I'm not scum, now vote for kitaman27.
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I'm under the opinion that mafia are not among our top candidates. For example, I am still extra suspicious of Cyber_Cheese because of his vote for OriginalName and because of his "I'd rather lynch chaoser than iGrok" comments. I think people are putting a little too much faith into the fact that mafia were bussing iGrok. Remember that Radfield led a last-minute effort on day 2 to pull the lynch off of iGrok and onto Jackal.
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On September 28 2011 05:52 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:49 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again. Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities. Radfield, who was mafia, already thought I was a third party. Him announcing it so late is also due to the fact that he was deciding on whether he wanted to do it or not. He could have claimed he tracked me early right after the flip. He waited 7 hours until he did it and when asked why he said "he wanted to see what I was going to do" except he never asks me any questions before that, never talks to me before that. It make no sense.
Yeah but waiting for 7 hours doesn't change the fact that there is still only a 3/20 chance of being correct. And if he were mafia, it would be even lower because he would have had to identify the vig/3rd party. Regardless of his suspicious actions, the fact that he made that correct call is so unlikely if he were mafia.
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On September 28 2011 06:15 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:52 chaoser wrote:On September 28 2011 05:49 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again. Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities. Radfield, who was mafia, already thought I was a third party. Him announcing it so late is also due to the fact that he was deciding on whether he wanted to do it or not. He could have claimed he tracked me early right after the flip. He waited 7 hours until he did it and when asked why he said "he wanted to see what I was going to do" except he never asks me any questions before that, never talks to me before that. It make no sense. Yeah but waiting for 7 hours doesn't change the fact that there is still only a 3/20 chance of being correct. And if he were mafia, it would be even lower because he would have had to identify the vig/3rd party. Regardless of his suspicious actions, the fact that he made that correct call is so unlikely if he were mafia.
You really think a gimped tracker role would be in a game where gandalf can basically read your pm? Where Legolas can get three KP? Where Tom can technically infinite KP? Those are some of the flips btw. It still makes no sense that he wanted to lynch me over iGrok, especially since I killed Radfield. How do you even explain that? Basically you're saying, yeah he's shady but he blue claimed and got my kill right. It still doesn't explain the reasoning for why he waited 7 hours.
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On September 28 2011 06:13 TranceStorm wrote:
I'm under the opinion that mafia are not among our top candidates. For example, I am still extra suspicious of Cyber_Cheese because of his vote for OriginalName and because of his "I'd rather lynch chaoser than iGrok" comments. I think people are putting a little too much faith into the fact that mafia were bussing iGrok. Remember that Radfield led a last-minute effort on day 2 to pull the lynch off of iGrok and onto Jackal.
No, we definitely have mafia. kitaman27 is scum.
The problem is, how much intelligence do we have on the town side? Because only people who are capable of minimum thinking can see how clearly kitaman27 is scum. I don't really have much faith seeing how many people let iGrok slide on day 1. I mean we're stuck with people like pyo on town side, I don't think he has ever accused scum in any game I've played with him.
It's obivous, his claim and attack on chaoser was basically mafia trying to stall the iGrok lynch for another day. Thankfully people showed some ability to look at things objectively. I know it's hard to expect something like that to happen again....
One can always hope.
I honestly hope that a lot of town players go back when this game is done and re-read it in it's entirety. Because I haven't even paid that much attention to it, yet mafia is glaringly obvious.
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