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On September 13 2011 09:30 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 09:15 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 09:06 GreYMisT wrote:
I prefer policy posts and "plans" to the spam and trolling it takes to get some games started on day 1. Would you rather I didn't post at all? I feel that at least gets everyone on the same page. Otherwise we don't know where anyone stands on the mechanics of the game, and judging from games I have read on here that seems to muck up later days. Policy sounds good, although there haven´t been much so far. That´s not the problem I had with your post, my problem was that it seemed like you liked how we had played thus far, when it had been just spam and ponies. Don´t congratulate Town on inactivity and lurking. Ok I see what you mean. How do you feel we should approach this closed setup on day 0/1?
It´s closed, so we can´t rely on cops, doctors and vigis. Still, I don´t think the core of the game has changed that much. There might be a 3rd Party, but I don´t expect multiple Scum-families like in Werewolf Mafia, the game is too small for that, and I don´t think GM would turn a Pony themed game into a slaughter like that game. Treating this as a normal games, with a few gimics, then we have talking, pressure and logic, the weapons of Town, and the hope of help from the blues.
Personally, I don´t want to lynch lurkers or Jackal. Lynching Jackal for the fun of it is a mistake. Checking the last games, he´s often dead after the second night, mostly after he rolls Town and gets lynched anyway. He could be scum (Like in the CH game  ), but I´m not wasting time pushing to lynch him until he´s shown some real scumtells. Jackal does warrant a cop check though, if we have a detective out there.
Voting, remember that it´s a majority lynch rule, the first day we need 8 votes, out of 13 players, to lynch. If we don´t, then noone dies, but scum gets a free night. I don´t want to go into what´s best between not lynching and getting a mislynch, just pointing out that if we want someone lynched, we need to agree as a whole and actively lynch. In this game, not voting on the leading candidate is a vote to save him.
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On September 13 2011 10:19 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:13 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 09:30 GreYMisT wrote:On September 13 2011 09:15 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 09:06 GreYMisT wrote:
I prefer policy posts and "plans" to the spam and trolling it takes to get some games started on day 1. Would you rather I didn't post at all? I feel that at least gets everyone on the same page. Otherwise we don't know where anyone stands on the mechanics of the game, and judging from games I have read on here that seems to muck up later days. Policy sounds good, although there haven´t been much so far. That´s not the problem I had with your post, my problem was that it seemed like you liked how we had played thus far, when it had been just spam and ponies. Don´t congratulate Town on inactivity and lurking. Ok I see what you mean. How do you feel we should approach this closed setup on day 0/1? It´s closed, so we can´t rely on cops, doctors and vigis. Still, I don´t think the core of the game has changed that much. There might be a 3rd Party, but I don´t expect multiple Scum-families like in Werewolf Mafia, the game is too small for that, and I don´t think GM would turn a Pony themed game into a slaughter like that game. Treating this as a normal games, with a few gimics, then we have talking, pressure and logic, the weapons of Town, and the hope of help from the blues. Personally, I don´t want to lynch lurkers or Jackal. Lynching Jackal for the fun of it is a mistake. Checking the last games, he´s often dead after the second night, mostly after he rolls Town and gets lynched anyway. He could be scum (Like in the CH game ), but I´m not wasting time pushing to lynch him until he´s shown some real scumtells. Jackal does warrant a cop check though, if we have a detective out there. Voting, remember that it´s a majority lynch rule, the first day we need 8 votes, out of 13 players, to lynch. If we don´t, then noone dies, but scum gets a free night. I don´t want to go into what´s best between not lynching and getting a mislynch, just pointing out that if we want someone lynched, we need to agree as a whole and actively lynch. In this game, not voting on the leading candidate is a vote to save him. Hey, look at this. It's scum thinking my pressure on Jackal was real and not wanting to stand out by ignoring it. What exactly has Jackal done to warrant a cop check?
Please, you didn´t even attempt to make that pressure look anything but a joke.
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On September 13 2011 10:44 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:42 Forumite wrote:
Please, you didn´t even attempt to make that pressure look anything but a joke. Answer the question.
Jackal is a good player, and if Town don´t lynch him to be safe, then Scum kill him off. We can´t do anything to stop a scumkill, but if he´s up for a lynch, then, judging by earlier results on lynching Jackal, it´s probably better to make a cop-check than lynching him blind. The cop doesn´t have to claim just because he checks, though, if he thinks he can survive to check a night or two more.
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On September 13 2011 10:58 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:54 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 10:44 chaos13 wrote:On September 13 2011 10:42 Forumite wrote:
Please, you didn´t even attempt to make that pressure look anything but a joke. Answer the question. Jackal is a good player, and if Town don´t lynch him to be safe, then Scum kill him off. We can´t do anything to stop a scumkill, but if he´s up for a lynch, then, judging by earlier results on lynching Jackal, it´s probably better to make a cop-check than lynching him blind. The cop doesn´t have to claim just because he checks, though, if he thinks he can survive to check a night or two more. So in other words you think he warrants a check because he has an equally good chance at being mafia as any other random person selected from the player list?
Hmmm, yeah, sounds about right.
Jackal is the player in this game that I most want to know the alignment of. If he´s Town, then he can help a lot, and we definetly shouldn´t do Scum a favor and lynch him, let them waste a nightkill instead. If he´s Scum, then we find him with a check, even if he´s doing his best "confirmed Town" act.
Do you disagree?
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On September 13 2011 11:12 chaos13 wrote:
I can't be the only one who sees how scummy Forumite is right now.
Well, I don´t see it. What´s so scummy about it?
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On September 13 2011 11:16 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 11:11 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 10:58 chaos13 wrote:On September 13 2011 10:54 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 10:44 chaos13 wrote:On September 13 2011 10:42 Forumite wrote:
Please, you didn´t even attempt to make that pressure look anything but a joke. Answer the question. Jackal is a good player, and if Town don´t lynch him to be safe, then Scum kill him off. We can´t do anything to stop a scumkill, but if he´s up for a lynch, then, judging by earlier results on lynching Jackal, it´s probably better to make a cop-check than lynching him blind. The cop doesn´t have to claim just because he checks, though, if he thinks he can survive to check a night or two more. So in other words you think he warrants a check because he has an equally good chance at being mafia as any other random person selected from the player list? Hmmm, yeah, sounds about right. Jackal is the player in this game that I most want to know the alignment of. If he´s Town, then he can help a lot, and we definetly shouldn´t do Scum a favor and lynch him, let them waste a nightkill instead. If he´s Scum, then we find him with a check, even if he´s doing his best "confirmed Town" act. Do you disagree? The problem is that, even if someone does check him tomorrow night, that doesn't mean that you will automagically know his alignment. The DT isn't going to claim just so you can know what Jackal's alignment is.
Of course we don´t want him to claim immediately, but he can breadcrumb, or wait a few days and claim when there´s more info. If Jackal´s scum, then we know when the DT claims or dies, and can lynch then. The only way this would not work is if Jackal is Scum AND there is no DT, or if the DT ignore this plan and checks someone else.
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On September 13 2011 11:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Early breadcrumbing is advantageous to mafia.
In XLIV I breadcrumbed and just railed all over mafia for one day before getting shot.
IMO it's just because we don't have the ability to identify power roles as quickly as mafia. They have more information than we do, so they can narrow down the possibilities more quickly. Putting potential targets out there before we have any reasonable discussion is just asking to get set up. I mean, if you're telling DTs to check Jackal, assuming we have a DT, what's stopping a potential framer from just targetting him that night?
It's better for them to decide for themselves who to target rather than tell them how to play their own role. This is my opinion, at least, as IMO it prevents WIFOM situations and false reads.
Okay, minor point on early breadcrumbing, good point on the Framer. Perhaps everypony else is better at finding breadcrumbs, but I´m having problems finding them even after the flip. It´s a small game, but we can´t be sure if there are any detectives or framers. If there is a framer or there exists no DTs, then this plan fails. I´d say it´s not very likely that there is a framer in the game, but we probably don´t want to risk it.
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On September 13 2011 11:58 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 11:53 Sevryn wrote:
man i would love a daypost so we might have some more information to read into. Forumite asking for a cop to check a specific person is retarded in a closed setup. Chaos I think your reading a little to bit much into something that can just be he didnt think it through. I've made a mistake in the begining of a game that looked kinda scummy but was just me being retarded so ill reserve judgment untill I see some more of his opinions
Not something I would expect from Forumite. His play in Cosmic Horror was solid, and I think I've played another game with him that he did very well in. If I live tonight I'll go back and check to confirm that.
Depends on what you mean with very well, I survived for very long as a hidden DT in XXXIX, but it didn´t feel like I was helping that much, and we lost in the end.
My pack won Werewolf Mafia, after I was found by the rival scum and lynched halfway through.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia was a win, as scum gave up when we closed in on them.
Why wouldn´t you live tonight, Chaos13?
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On September 13 2011 12:20 GreYMisT wrote:
The only thing I can see in the post is that the phrase "the key word being 'seemed'" seems out of place, but that may be stretching things waaaaay too far. There doesnt seem to be anything about the setup other than what you mentioned sevryn. other than the elements of harmony possibly being a mechanic, the phrase "nightmare moon has returned" might indicate a third party of some kind?
Nightmare Moon is more likely the leader of the Scum, represented in flavor or by a player, rather than a third party. The Daypost includes the usual death of someone, loads of flavor, and the three lines of things happening. The elements of harmony are the only thing that stand out there. Honesty and all that, going to the Ever Free Forest to find some rocks is only half of our problems, the real problem is finding scum, and it´s been quiet since the pressure on me.
The real day just started, this is not the time to get complacent.
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On September 13 2011 14:14 sinani206 wrote:
Can someone who watches the show explain what Nightmare Moon is? It might be useful to help solve whatever is hidden in the post, something like the roles or numbers of the mafia.
For this size of a game, it´s most likely 3 Scum and 10 Town.
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On September 13 2011 18:43 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:13 Forumite wrote:
It´s closed, so we can´t rely on cops, doctors and vigis. Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 11:11 Forumite wrote:
Jackal is the player in this game that I most want to know the alignment of. If he´s Town, then he can help a lot, and we definetly shouldn´t do Scum a favor and lynch him, let them waste a nightkill instead. If he´s Scum, then we find him with a check, even if he´s doing his best "confirmed Town" act.
Do you disagree? How can you say we can't rely on Blues and then soon after suggest an entire strategy around Jackal's alignment which relies completely on a Cop? I really don't like that you want to "catch him" with a check, even when he looks innocent. That could easily suggest a framing on Mafia's part of Jackal. On the other hand, you could be setting up a DT check on your Godfather (If Jackal is scum and there is a GF I think there's a big probability that he is it). Either way, it looks quite bad. Explain?
Apart from the idea of Jackal being the godfather, it was all adressed and rejected yesterday allready. The original plan fails, more because of the possibility of Framers, than lack of cops. As for Jackal being the godfather, that´s reaching. If there is one, why is it more likely that Jackal is the one, and why then would I want to call attention to him? If I vouch for Jackal being Town, and then flip red, then Jackal goes down too.
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The plan works even without a detective check actually happening. I don´t want the usual "Let´s kill Jackal early", but if there´s still a good case and there´s no claim later on, then nothing is stopping us from doing what we were going to do at the start, but now with more information to back the lynch up.
Anyway, this was my plan before Framers entered the picture. I works without a DT, but if there is a DT, then we have to be able to trust his check.
If I save a player from a lynch, then flip red, it throws a lot of suspicion on the one I saved, don´t you think?
Godfathers, are they always chosen among scum by the scum themselves?
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Rechecked the post you meant. True, I did contradict myself in the same post. I guess I focused so much in how this game should be treated like a normal mini-Mafia, despite the closed set-up. I still think it would have been a good plan, if there are no Framers at least. There´s not going to be insane DTs in a game of 13 players, and those who fakeclaim are scum and get lynched. While Millers could mess it up, the likelyhood of Jackal being a miller in a game with millers is very low, the likelyhood in a game with framers that Jackal is framed right when we call for a DT-check on him is very, very high. The Framer is the big problem with the plan, not millers, insane DTs and fakeclaims.
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On September 13 2011 20:30 Lucidity wrote:
There is no voting thread?
I guess not, but with so few players, it´s not that hard to find the voting posts and make a summary.
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Wall of text >.<
Chaos13, Part 3 was definetly not fluff. This is not like most games on this forum, where 4 votes can lynch in a 20 player game. We need 8 votes on the same person to lynch today, and that changes a lot, for how scum play, and how town play, but mostly it means that we either agree or we don´t lynch at all, forcing everyone to be more aggressive with the voting.
As for your random pressure, I knew it was random pressure. If I knew it was not serious, why would I defend Jackal?
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On September 13 2011 21:18 chaos13 wrote:
By now he's realized how scummy he is being by sticking to his same idea, so he looks for a way out. It's a meager way out, but mafia can wriggle when they want to. This is just weak. There are so many possibilities where your plan could have gone wrong that it shouldn't have taken so long to have one of them pointed out to you.
Point out the problems with the plan.
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On September 13 2011 08:01 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:
I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so my meta on TL is pretty useless. AA, wasn´t the Goons there part of Town? How´s your Veteran Metagame? With everyone accusing me of avoiding questions, I think I´d like some old ones of my own answered.
Lucidity, what role did you have in Arkham Asylum? Arkham Staff, basically a normal Goon?
Is there something in your Veteran Metagame that makes those games useless for metagame purposes?
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On September 13 2011 22:08 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 21:51 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:
I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so my meta on TL is pretty useless. AA, wasn´t the Goons there part of Town? How´s your Veteran Metagame? With everyone accusing me of avoiding questions, I think I´d like some old ones of my own answered. Lucidity, what role did you have in Arkham Asylum? Arkham Staff, basically a normal Goon? Is there something in your Veteran Metagame that makes those games useless for metagame purposes? I played as a Goon and a Vet in PM games, so a lot of discussion is not in the thread at all. I've played 1 game as Green, 1 as Blue and 1 as Red. I don't think I have any kind of reliable meta on here.
Ah, PM games, that doesn´t help much. Nevermind then.
On September 13 2011 22:01 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 21:33 Forumite wrote:
Wall of text >.<
Chaos13, Part 3 was definetly not fluff. This is not like most games on this forum, where 4 votes can lynch in a 20 player game. We need 8 votes on the same person to lynch today, and that changes a lot, for how scum play, and how town play, but mostly it means that we either agree or we don´t lynch at all, forcing everyone to be more aggressive with the voting.
As for your random pressure, I knew it was random pressure. If I knew it was not serious, why would I defend Jackal? Yeah, I know it applies to the game, but if anyone isn't aware of it already it's because they haven't read the OP. The bolded is exactly my question.
I saw random pressure, I didn´t think there was real substance behind it, but it did reminded me about the general opinion on Jackal, that if he´s not dead within a few days, then he´s scum. I checked the rolelist of some old games, the games I checked where he was Town had him dead by nightkill or lynch before Day 3. This seemed odd for an active player to get lynched so often, and so when I was doing policy on lurkers, I threw in policy on Jackal too.
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I assume it´s Players/2+1, rounded up, so 8 when we have 13 players. It should probably be rounded down though, as now we are 1 vote MORE than majority. Rounding up get´s tough when there´s 3 players left, as everyone has to vote on one to vote him, even the one who is getting voted out.
GM, do we need 7 or 8 votes to lynch today?
Greymist, My FoS on you was because you congratulated Town on being inactive and spamming a lot.
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On September 13 2011 23:31 Jackal58 wrote:Anybody on what the "Elements of Harmony" are? I'm at work and I'm not getting caught dead wiki'ing rainbows and ponies. 
In the second episode, Twilight and her 5 friends found the Elements of Harmony, in the form of 5 stones. They are Honesty, Kindness, Laughter, Generosity and Loyalty, and were used together to call on the 6th element, Magic. Then they did a 6-pony magic ûbercombo and defeated Nightmare moon, making her 20% less cool, but much more cute.
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EPT
