EPTI shall /in
TL Mafia XLIV
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chaos13
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I shall /in | ||
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I really like the atmosphere chaoser and DropBear are setting up. This is a good way to start the game, with plenty of productive discussion going on and not too much other crap. | ||
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On August 19 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote: Surely the Mafia is aware that open discussion is the ordinary citizens' strongest weapon and are thus likely to target those who are unafraid to speak their minds? A dictator always targets the means of communication: the media, the internet, etc. Yes. Does that mean we should all lurk? No. If everybody discusses in a productive way, mafia will have trouble blending in and providing the same level of constructive input, and suddenly those extremely pro-town players don't become such high profile targets, because everyone is joining in to an equal degree. | ||
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On August 19 2011 08:12 xtfftc wrote: I agree, of course. If the whole population takes part in the democracy process, the people become too powerful to be messed with. But it often takes just one ordinary citizen to show signs of cowardice - and suddenly we see a snowball effect affecting the whole town. Which is why it's up to the individuals not to follow suit if someone does. | ||
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On August 19 2011 14:08 Varpulis wrote: quicksilver, what should i say, praytell? I came late to the party, all of the basic guidelines and stuff had already been said. saying that i agree with loads of people is a waste of my time and yours because they're all saying the same stuff. The "pro town" stuff that Navillus has been saying has been said, in some variation, many times before, by both town and scum. a post doesn't have to be huge to make a point. Please be concise, everybody. There are plenty of posts in here to analyze, and basic guidelines and stuff often give you good material to look over. Remember that town want a pro-town atmosphere, and scum want the opposite. Check over, see if you can find a player trying to appear pro-town but pushing a mafia agenda. Your excuse for not posting is that you came late to the game? That's pathetic. That's using your lack of activity as an excuse for your lack of activity. Granted, I do kinda like the way you threw that last line on to try to gain some town cred. | ||
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On August 19 2011 21:55 Curu wrote: So Palmar kindly provide a reason DropBear is scum. I know you like to speak in short absolutes but for the rest of us that don't see your brilliant Icelandic logic, we need help. chaos what's your opinion on Jackal? Palmar is just trolling/tunneling atm. I don't think he's going to provide anything more than what he has, so we can pretty much just ignore him until he does. No posts of Jackal's stand out to me right now. To be honest I didn't even realize he was playing this game until you made that post. Ask me later when he's posted more and I've had some more time to catch up on my reading the thread. | ||
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On August 20 2011 03:44 DropBear wrote: I am trying to get things moving, get discussion started. The posts I quoted here are prime example s of why this needs to be done, noone is doing ANYTHING. In no way am I suggesting that they are Mafia, nor was it implied when I quoted them to you. What do you mean by honesty? I didn't say anything that could potentially have been a lie? I asked questions and made suggestions, they aren't truthful or not. This makes no sense??? I don't understand your problem with me Palmar. If you are so quick to make up your mind off one post, an introduction to the game, then I sure as hell hope GMarshal didn't give you a gun. The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..." Any explanation for this? People keep complaining that the thread is disorganized and nothing proper is getting done. Who started all that? Palmar. Palmar as town is The Brother Leader and Guide of Town. I see absolutely none of that here. So far all he has done is cause mayhem and spam and disorganization and a generally very unhelpful pro-mafia atmosphere. In other words, that stops right fucking now. WE NEED TO BE ORGANIZED FOR THIS GAME TO WORK No lynches are very possible if we keep dicking around the way we have been, and no-lynches gain mafia a free night kill. So here's the deal. If you're going to vote someone, you explain why. Clearly. If you're going to accuse someone of being scum, you explain why you think they are mafia. Clearly. Any other behavior is anti-town and leads to spam and confusion. Let's cut out the spam, cut out the votes without explanation, cut out the troll posts, and cut out the one-liner arguments. My vote goes on the player who led town right into this shitstorm. ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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On August 20 2011 10:21 Curu wrote: Give this man a vote to put on Sevyrn. Here's a one liner post that doesn't achieve anything. Yes, we're already clear that you think sevryn is scummy, and that you want other people to vote on him. Posts like this are not going to convince me to change my vote though. Unless you're posting analysis and evidence, you don't need to take up the time and thread space to put this up. | ||
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Again, who started this? Palmar. Let's take a brief look at the sevryn bandwagon. Did it build up quickly? Has there been any noticeable defense that appears flimsy or false or nervous? I don't think he's scum. Jackal, who do you think is mafia and why? | ||
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On August 21 2011 07:12 Palmar wrote: nah, I maintain a list of people I'm fine with lynching. BrownBear DropBear Chaos13 RayzorFlash By now you should know that if you feel like lynching me, I'm probably town :p But seriously, your only reason for being okay with lynching me is because I think you're scum. That is a textbook OMGUS, and I have no idea why everyone seems to think you're so town. You're the reason this thread has been so completely derailed already. | ||
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On August 21 2011 09:19 Sevryn wrote: chaos13 palmar created some good conversation and the thread wasnt just policy posts day one I think most people are getting a town read on him please find a better target. I think Palmar is scum, so I'll vote for him. I think the majority of your posts point towards more of a town player, so I won't vote for you. | ||
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On August 21 2011 09:25 Sevryn wrote: all your doing is abstaining if you think im not scum then you need to vote for a viable lynch target other wise your just not voting and thats scummy. palmar I should have played better dont blame yourself I'm voting for the person I think is scum. I fail to see how that is scummy. | ||
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##unvote: ##vote: RayzorFlash | ||
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On August 22 2011 03:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Hiro: Palmar isn't raging. He's trying to manipulate town with an appeal to emotion. I'm surprised he's even trying, it's one of the most obvious scum-tells there is. Regarding Rayzor, if he was a good enough target to risk a no-lynch today with your ill-fated vote-switch, what has changed in your opinion that makes him not-so tomorrow? Palmar: You're better than this. Your play has NOT been good, you haven't provided ANYTHING aside from your weak case against DB, and admittedly I haven't read your case against BB yet (I'm working on it). The fact that you're using that as a reason to rage when everyone here knows you're better than that makes me very suspicious. Finally somebody smart gets in here. I can't believe people let Palmar away so easily. | ||
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On August 22 2011 03:35 Palmar wrote: im just going to pretend ve doesnt exist, he's town anyway. I point out your scumminess and suddenly I'm scum, and apparently should be vigi hit. Viscera points out your scumminess and he's town. HMMMMMMM | ||
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On August 22 2011 11:18 Foolishness wrote: I'm not answering those questions lol Why not? | ||
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Guardian Angel (Medic) - one of the holy forces sent by heaven to keep the cultists from getting their hands on the shrike, you are an angel in mortal form. Every night you may watch over a player, and if they would be hit you raise a sheild of righteous fury around them, protecting them from death. You only protect from one kp. If you successfuly protect someone both you and your target will be informed. If you said you had one life left you were probably scum, since there was no way you would be double stacked at this point in the game (I think) | ||
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On August 22 2011 11:14 Foolishness wrote: I know...you could not believe how much my eyes widen when I got notified. First, you claim a RB and hit. Then Jackal points out the role description in which it clearly states that a RB + hit on a veteran will kill them. Then you softclaim veteran by the nature of your response to him. Then you absolutely refuse to confirm this soft claim, but shortly after have no problem confirming that it was actually a medic save rather than a vet's extra life. This whole hesitation just says scum to me, but maybe I'm the only one thinking it. Shortly after this we get into an interesting exchange with chaoser, Mig, and Foolishness. On August 22 2011 14:02 chaoser wrote: There is only conjecture as to who would hit you and also block you at the same time. This only matters, of course, if you're telling the truth. I've seen mafia claim to be roleblocked when they really haven't been, I really wouldn't put it pass mafia to claim they were also hit, especially if it's you who is claiming to be blocked. I'll have to sleep on this. That being said, mig, I have a question: you said that to foolishness about him using meta to place suspicions against you but then you turn around and post this: and yet have not provided examples of me acting the way I did as mafia. A bit hypocritical don't you think? What's with the flip flopping on stances? On one hand, you don't accept meta when it's against you, but on the other you use it freely against others? And to foolishness, mig seems like the one you are most suspicious of, and yet instead of voting for him and pushing hard, you backed off with a "I wouldn't mind lynching mig" followed by a "rayzorflash is an outstanding issue as well" When I was mafia in XXXVII I basically posted just that about a teammate and this was noted by Ver as something that mafia would do. Why aren't you pushing harder on mig? This is really a rather empty post. Look at it. What information does he actually bring to the table? He questions Foolishness' claim, points out a contradiction in Mig's posts, and questions Foolishness again. All of this ends with a vote on Mig that happens a few posts later, but...it's not an analysis on Mig. The majority of it is pushing Foolishness rather than Mig. On August 22 2011 14:40 Foolishness wrote: It's because I'm not sure what to make of the night events. I got roleblocked and shot. That's not something most people would do. Either way you got some pretty damning evidence against Mig there. ##Vote Mig And then holy shit did this just happen? His "damning evidence" was Mig having a different approach to analyzing a different situation. That's real scummy right there, Mig must be mafia for sure. In other words, I would expect waaay more from you Foolish. On August 22 2011 17:51 Mig wrote: Chaoser you are technically correct but really you are twisting my words around to try and make me appear scummy. Not all meta arguments are the same, you didn't see me disagreeing with other meta arguments foolish had made in the thread. But his meta argument about how my "attitude" was different and therefore mafia was incorrect. He provided no examples of me acting that way as mafia and that attitude hadn't done anything to hurt the town. My meta argument against you was completely different. As town I have seen you dominate and put a ton of effort into scum hunting. This game I see you writing complete fluff posts and providing no analysis while making an excuse for being busy. Anyone can look at your play in mafia 39 and see how different it is compared to this game. Foolishness' meta argument didn't show one way or the other whether I was town and it didn't show how I was harming the town with my play however your play style is a complete 180 from your normal town play and is considerably worse than normal for you. So instead of providing any real analysis this game you started off with A) writing fluff posts B) voted for me basically just saying yea I agree with foolish then disappeared before the lynch and now C) you are twisting my words around to make me appear scummy when it should be obvious how different my argument was from the one foolish made. #Vote: chaoser Here we've got an OMGUS from Mig, although what I feel is a justified one. His defense, just like chaoser's original accusation, feels false to me. I'm really not seeing anything genuine here. Mig as a player has a tendency to become very involved in the game, actively scumhunting, leading people, and basically taking control. This is such a passive defense, and is weak for such a strong player. I don't see much substance to it. This isn't an accusation of Mig, I just want to see if anyone else felt the same way about this post as I did. In summary: Foolish makes scummy half-claim chaoser votes for Mig based on a post that accused Foolish more than Mig Foolish votes Mig on chaoser's "damning evidence" Mig votes chaoser This whole sequence of events is weird. All three of these guys are good players. Why are so many strange posts coming from all three of them within such a short time? Right now, these three (and Palmar, but I'll leave you alone for today I think) are my biggest suspects, and I think Foolishness is most likely to be scum out of them. ##Vote: Foolishness And then something I feel needs to be tagged on the end here: On August 22 2011 17:53 Palmar wrote:*lurks* Oh look, it's Palmar! Was this a useful post? No. Was it necessary? No. So unless you're actually going to contribute something, please keep your posts to yourself. | ||
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On August 22 2011 21:38 supersoft wrote: hi chaos13. Where were you at the end of day1? Why have you kept your vote on Palmar? Why did you lurk until right now? I was asleep in bed. I kept my vote on Palmar because I felt he was scum. You'll notice I posted that I was switching to Rayzor because I didn't want to see sevryn lynched, but we had a power outage as I was going to put it in the voting thread. I'm not usually very active on D1, but I get more involved as the game goes on and I have an easier time keeping track of things. What's your opinion towards RayzorFlash? After filtering his posts and reading through them, I think he's probably town. Since he's a new player, if he ended up getting mafia he would probably have a very nervous disposition. From what I can see he's confident, and explains all his actions/ideas. How do you think about the fact that our Vigilante accused xtfftc and died night1. What do you think about xtfftc? At the beginning of the game I had a town read on him. At the moment I'm not so sure. I imagine the reason Quicksilver died was because he was doing really, really good. His posts were pro-town and more reasonable than anyone elses. I highly doubt it was a blue snipe or because he was onto someone. this attack on Foolishness is completely unnecessary. Foolishness has been absolutely not scummy until the point when he got shot. If I were a medic, he would have been one of the persons I would have considered to protect. Moreover I understand Foolishness vote on mig but I don't agree. If I think he's scum, I'll attack him. Deal with it. As I said before, we should focus RayzorFlash right now. If he's guilty, we got a lot of informations about all the people that were afk during the end of day1. | ||
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On August 22 2011 23:15 Palmar wrote: Let's assume for a second you don't think I am scum, and in turn I'll think for a second you might be town aligned. What would you think about lynching BrownBear. I will give my thoughts on your lynch target of choice after I've done re-reading his posts. Works for me. BrownBear, I don't think is mafia. From what I can see of his posts he is playing pro-town, making solid analysis. I'll be moving my vote from Foolishness since it isn't doing any good there today. Still deciding who to put it on, I've got a couple candidates in mind. Someone I really don't like the looks of right now is wherebugsgo On August 23 2011 00:22 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel like Palmar is town, as is VE. VE I think you should reconsider your vote on palmar. Right now xtfftc and Brownbear stand out to me; I can't really put a definite finger on either but I need to do some more reading and analyzing (on a computer, not an iPhone lol) I would suggest also that you guys all remember Trotske and Vain. Some of the names from day 1 are being forgotten because of this hardcore tunneling going on. VE I think you're tunnelling too hard on Palmar and are missing other valuable leads we have right now. I say this based off what I read by filtering your posts. Last things I wish to add/reiterate: I feel like Foolish is town, and he's usually a valuable source of information. If we get confirmation that he was lying about last night then we need to reconsider our stance about him being town. So far, other than the hit claim, foolish has done nothing to stand out, and so I'm inclined to say that he is town. Palmar is most likely town as well in my opinion. Yeah, he's been tunnelling BB but I think it's rather warranted. BB's vote yesterday was rather scummy, and the post he made about semiactives had the feel of a nontown agenda. He tried throwing some suspicion on "semiactives" and listed 3-4 names, of which were JeeJee, hiro, myself, and Foolish. Well damn, he sure thinks Palmar is town. Why does he post this shortly after then? On August 23 2011 01:19 wherebugsgo wrote: Upon rereading palmar's posts, I lean toward town. Palmar was never a proponent of the Sevryn lynch and he made several good (IMO) posts on how it matters not what a person thinks another's alignment is, but the WAY in which they propose their arguments. In this sense, I agree; the manner in which someone responds or posts is actually more important in order to determine their alignment than what they are literally saying. You seemed way more convinced of his townieness earlier before you'd read his posts, but you provide other reasons for why he is town.. This just doesn't make sense to me. If wherebugsgo is scum, Palmar probably is as well. But when I filter his posts I really don't get a strong read on him either way. Can I get some external input on him please? | ||
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On August 23 2011 12:22 wherebugsgo wrote: You don't like the looks of me because I don't think Palmar is mafia? That's a real strong argument you've got there. Why don't you actually analyze my posts? If you actually did that then you'd find a strong read on me. How the fuck...? Did you even read my post? No, I think you're *possible* (please note that, as I'm not sure on you and if you look closely you'll be able to see that I asked others for their opinion on you) mafia because you seemed very sure of him being town, and then apparently went back and re-read his posts, at which point you found more reason to believe he was town but somehow seemed less sure of your town read on him. If you were so sure he was town, why did you have to go back and re-read? | ||
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On August 23 2011 20:58 DropBear wrote: Hell if I can get people to lynch supersoft instead I'd be stoked but Mig is red as hell based on supersoft's actions. This post is the reason I'm inclined not to believe you. I can't see a genuine DT with a red check feeling like they will have trouble getting their red check lynched. This is a guilty mindset. The order of events I would like to see happen right now 1. Lynch DB 2. If blue flip, vig supersoft 3. Suddenly, information - lynch mig. Going back to read all of DropBear's posts before I move my vote to him. Am I still the only one who thinks Foolish is scum? Check this post out On August 23 2011 12:38 Foolishness wrote: I spent last night rereading through all of chaoser's past games and all of brownbear's past games. It should be fairly obvious why I did this. I will defend chaoser to the grave if I have to, he's most certainly town. I've never seen a townie be so adamant about defending their town read before. Regardless, I'll drop him for today and focus on what's relevant. | ||
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##Vote: supersoft | ||
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On August 23 2011 21:49 Kurumi wrote: @Vain DB never said this in the thread. You and him need to die. The thing Vain quoted was from the OP, not from DropBear. | ||
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DropBear, what do you think of wherebugsgo? | ||
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Quit spamming you scummy fuckers. | ||
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brb, reading over today's posts. ....there's a lot... -.- | ||
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Fuck this shit. I'm going to bed. Sorry for the double spam post. | ||
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On August 24 2011 19:23 Palmar wrote: If we have the chance, I'd suggest to our vigilantes to focus on shooting active people tonight. The reason for this is that we severely lack information, so instead of shooting the scummiest lurkers like vigis usually should do, I'd ask you to shoot scummy active people. Vigilantes, whatever you do, do not listen to this. Unless you're an amazing scumhunter (there's a few of you out there, so if you're one of them feel free) you are more likely to hit town. Then you have not only eliminated a townie, you have eliminated an actively contributing townie, which is BAD. If you feel compelled to shoot, hit lurkers. Even better, hit a scummy lurker. DT's check Palmar. Hell, vig him. He's still stirring this game up into an anti-town environment, so even if he's town it would be of more use than hitting a lurker. | ||
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On August 24 2011 21:09 Palmar wrote: shut up scum. Or if you're town... you're amazingly bad. It's gonna feel so good to lynch you and flip mafia after everyone thought I was wrong for so long. You have no idea how glad I am that people are finally starting to realize how scummy you are and how much you've disrupted this town. How does the post I quoted help anyone out in any way? 1) You're disrespectful. 2) Useless fucking spam. If I were host I would have modkilled you already for your inability to heed all the spam warnings that have gone out. Shape up your attitude or don't play. On August 24 2011 08:57 Palmar wrote: The second post I'm going to look specifically at from chaos comes in wake of the DB mess on day 2. He does have some questionable content over the day, just read it up and think about it. This plan he's giving us is basically the perfect way to continue as mafia. He already knows both supersoft and dropbear won't flip scum, so hell, let's suggest we kill them both! This is of course based on the assumption they aren't scum, but we need to work with something. I think chaos 13 is our best lynch today ##Vote Chaos13 Anyone who has read the thread knows that this is quoted way out of context. Go back to where you found this post, then scroll down a little ways and tell me what happened. I'm not going to do it for you, I want you to post back with the results so the whole town can see exactly how you're trying to set me up here. If you fail to do so you are mafia, because you have no interest in actually backing up your position with evidence. On August 24 2011 09:15 Mig wrote: My main argument against chaos is just that he used very poor logic to attack palmar early on. Chaos is good enough he should have been able to see how palmar's tunneling had benefited the town. Yet instead he tried to turn it around to discredit and attack palmar. It's out of character for him. People are now beginning to realize how I'm right. Mig, I'm gonna use the same argument against you; you're way better than this. On August 24 2011 08:52 Jackal58 wrote: Actually fuck it. I was saving this for the end of the night phase but Chaos has not called me scummy this game. The only other times he has done this is because he was on the scum team. I know it sounds lame but he's so damn consistent at it it's funny. I have been watching to see if he chose one of the three main targets over the others but his votes are off in the toolies. Ya I'll lynch Chaos. But I do know he is at work.  Oh hai Jackal. Interesting how you suddenly jump on me once there's already a bit of a bandwagon forming. You, Mig, and Palmar just come up with this idea to see how much more mayhem you can cause? There, was that a good enough accusation for you? It was genuine. I had no idea of your alignment until now because you hadn't posted enough for me to actually recognize that you were even playing this game. My thoughts on scum so far 1. Palmar 2. Mig Suspect -Jackal58 -Nard -Vain -chaoser -Kurumi Previous suspects that I have since dropped and think are probably town -supersoft -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 24 2011 21:29 Palmar wrote: yeah, probably not bad, just scum On August 24 2011 21:31 Palmar wrote: from now on, you don't exist chaos13. Go talk to visceraeyes. He's town though, you not so much. Vigis hit Palmar tonight for his complete disregard for posting anything useful. His spam is the reason we haven't hit scum yet. | ||
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On August 24 2011 21:34 Jackal58 wrote: Chaos I was going to make that point at the end of the night phase for discussion tomorrow. I had no desire to open another can of worms in light of DB turning yesterday into a derp fest. The opportunity presented itself and I decided to roll with it. Unfortunately I have no way of proving this to be true. I'll just have to wait and see how things turn out with you. | ||
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On August 25 2011 11:16 Navillus wrote: ##Vote Brownbear Palmar was town, he clearly was positive that Brownbear was scum, he's smart enough to get accurate reads, and everything foolishness said. This should be a no-brainer. As to mig I wasn't here when Mig became suspicious and I'm gonna go look for it and through all of his posts but could someone just explain why he's such a big candidate? In summary, Mig has not contributed to nearly his usual level, he is apparently "burned out" from mafia but is willing to post actively when he is being voted on, and if you'll read Foolishness' wall of text you'll see a brilliant little voting strategy that confirms Mig's scumminess. Mig as town is extremely helpful, extremely active, and extremely good at scumhunting. With 4 kills last night we really need to be on the ball today. ##Vote: Mig | ||
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I'm getting a little case of the heebie jeebies from this post. On August 25 2011 16:12 Barundar wrote: Why does hosts always give kurumi a gun? At least he can be ignored now. The roleblock was most likely used on db to stop him from getting saves off. I should have time to reread thread today. Mig did a pretty good job defending himself yesterday, and the case against brownbear is by far the best posted so far, so I'm more inclined to vote for him more than mig. @mig: chaos13 played a way more passive game as scum in tf mafia, i don't see his actions this game fitting that pattern. What's your thhoughts on chaoser? Way too many points covered way too briefly without enough explanation. -Pointless comment on Kurumi, as well as anti-town. No player should be ignored. -Speculation on RB -Excuses himself for not having read the thread yet, claims BB is scummier than Mig. Not unreasonable, but I disagree with his conclusion that Mig did a good job defending himself. He did a lot of defending himself, but not very well. -He has a town read on me when I am aware that I have been somewhat scummy this game. There are a few others who don't think I'm mafia as well, but the reasoning Barundar has is a little strange. Just a gut feeling. Barundar has now reached my suspect list. | ||
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Seems strange with 21 players left, but 6 mafia vs. 15 town with 3 kills each night. If we don't get mafia today it's only a matter of time til it's done. | ||
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Palmar first. I just grabbed the summary of it because you can easily see from it that most of his points are no longer relevant. On August 24 2011 08:57 Palmar wrote: a) He complains about bad town atmosphere but does nothing to improve it, in turn becoming part of the problem b) He's basically abstaining from voting, both on day 1, and now again on day 2, by throwing his votes on random people that aren't in danger of being lynched. c) He hasn't actually pushed a single lynch hard the entire game. a) I was unable to have thread presence all day, or I would have improved it. b) Didn't end up doing that, I actually voted for who I thought was scum. c) Not on D1 or D2, because I know I'm not very good on those days. Pushing Mig pretty hard today, and I'm getting my other suspects known and analyzed as well. This is common for my play. The first few days I'm not very active, just trying to wrap my head around spam and everything else, and it all falls together starting on D3. Now yours. On August 25 2011 17:14 Mig wrote: But that being said I still think chaos13 is a better lynch. I agree he seems slightly more aggressive this game but most of that aggression only came after palmar/jackal had called him out. Before that he was pretty inactive, he would just pop in write a post then disappear. He has barely commented on any of the main lynches that have gone on. And normally chaos is a very logical player. But look at how wrong all of his reasoning has been this game. And I mean would town chaos really freak out and immediately omgus jackal/palmar/myself for voting him? It seemed like a panicked overreaction when normally as town chaos is very level headed. If that weren't enough look at palmar's very good analysis of him here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=66#1311 One last thing. Why did jackal die last night? Was anyone else getting blue vibes from him? I wasn't. Had he been especially active or provided any strong analysis? No. So why was he shot instead of someone like Curu or you barundar? Jackal was convinced chaos was scum and 100% would have followed along with palmar's plan to lynch chaos today. Pretty good motivation to kill someone. I am hunting you down chaos! You say that my reasoning is wrong and illogical. Okay. How does that mean I'm scum? I've ended up being really busy this week, unfortunately. I'm also not very good at wading through the mess of the first day or two and figuring things out. Rather than just stating that my reasoning is poor, I would like you to explain exactly how it proves me to be mafia. Town can have off games too, and not be as good at analyzing. What would mafia have to lose from killing Jackal? The medics were focused on Foolishness (hopefully) so they had a good chance of getting a proper kill on Jackal. He's also a strong player, and it provided a perfect opportunity for one of the townies suspicious of me, or a mafia member to frame me and cast me in a suspicious light for it. What do you say Mig? Will you actually go into some detail in your analysis, or will you just leave it at blanket statements? | ||
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Concerning you/chaoser/foolish, I explained why I felt you guys were scummy. Then I went to bed, which is why I disappeared. Cast doubt on the only players doing analysis? That is a blatant lie and I am very unimpressed that you just tried to use it in a case against me. If you really think it's true, then go back through this entire thread and make a list of every single time a player has made an analysis. Spoiler that list. Then filter my posts and quote every time that I accuse one of them or cast doubt on them for doing analysis. If I accuse every single player who has done analysis in this game, then you are correct. Your accusation of me is flimsy to begin with, and you just broke it in half with that statement. Yeah, I've got one or two original things against you. Check out this post, which you can read near the top of page 81. "Mig, if only you put as much effort into scumhunting as you did into defending yourself, we probably would have won this game already. About 90% of your defense on the past page and a half consists of some variation of "What? Your analysis is wrong, how could you even think that. chaos13 is scum." You fail to properly address any of the points against you, and you fail to convince me that you are not mafia." Nobody else had picked up on that yet. It's not a lot, I know, but it's more evidence for me to feel comfortable with lynching you. There's no point in me repeating the same things that everybody has said. Now until you actually explain how my actions have been scummy, I'm going to quit responding to you, because all we're doing is cluttering up the thread. If you truly feel that I am mafia and worthy of a lynch, then use my posts as evidence. Go into detail. This post was getting better, but it was still weak. I know from playing games with you as town that you really know how to dig into a player's posts, and I haven't seen any of that happening. | ||
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On August 26 2011 02:31 Pyo wrote: Um... that's not LYLO... we have at least 2 days of no mafia lynches before lylo - not saying that we can afford to keep killing town, but there's no need to panic. "it's only a matter of time til it's done" was just as true before the game even began... Are you trying to blue-fish? Oh derp lol. That wasn't blue fishing, it was overthinking. | ||
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On August 26 2011 19:09 xtfftc wrote: Mig, who did you track on Night 1? If he's going to be lynched you would think it would be a good idea to give town as much information as possible. Instead he forgets to do this and focuses solely on me. Also if he was so sure I was mafia and he actually tracked me to a dead player last night why wouldn't he have said so earlier? | ||
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On August 26 2011 02:31 Pyo wrote: Um... that's not LYLO... we have at least 2 days of no mafia lynches before lylo - not saying that we can afford to keep killing town, but there's no need to panic. "it's only a matter of time til it's done" was just as true before the game even began... Are you trying to blue-fish? If we don't lynch mafia today, we cannot win. Even if we lynch mafia every day after, they will still kill us. Granted, this is not including vets/docs/vigi's, so depending on how many of those/how accurate they are we have a slight chance if Mig actually flips blue. | ||
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On August 26 2011 22:08 Curu wrote: chaos claim your flavortext please. Everyone post your opinion on Mig's claim, right now it strikes me as flailing scum (why not claim it as soon as you came under serious pressure?) but will have to reread both chaos and Mig with this possibility in mind. Not sure what the point of this is anymore since Mig is getting lynched and if I was scum I would have requested a fake claim, but here ya go, copy/pasted. Liquidite- Welcome to TL Mafia XLIV, you are Lincon, ex-president of a distant country, you staged your own murder and moved to liquidia, you have no special powers or political clout here, but your sense of justice will not let you allow these murders to continue unopposed, you will vote every day in an attempt to stop these killings. | ||
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On August 28 2011 10:55 Foolishness wrote: nard is 100% mafia. If I die it will be instantly clear how I know this information. Yes it's 100%. I wanted to bring this information up yesterday but the timing never came, especially after Mig claimed. It should be clear why I had everyone write up what they thought about those 3 people. Make sure to look at the people who didn't respond to that (there are a few who did, and they are all on my suspect list). Kill nard today so that the mafia will have their KP reduced. Mafia list: nard, BrownBear, Barundar, Pyo, RayzorFlash. If one of those flip green then Erandorr. Forgot about Barundar. Vain, Viscera, Barundar, Nard are my top four atm. | ||
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##Vote: nard | ||
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Add that to the fact that your two apparent checks were on people who already flipped, I don't trust you enough to lynch your selection over foolishness'. | ||
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On August 28 2011 11:43 chaoser wrote: I care not who gets lynched today, I trust foolishness' call as much as I trust my own. I would just rather have the person I caught be lynched first cause I caught him. Not to mention what do you want me to do? I checked mig night one cause I was suspicious of him and I've been on his ass for the last two day. I HAD to check foolishness (GM didn't allow me to check myself) since I didn't know my own sanity and since I was 90% sure he was townie because DropBear claimed he saved him. What about you? You were so dead set on a Vain lynch before: and now you're backing off. Cause nard is more confirmed scum than Vain. This should be quite obvious. | ||
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On August 28 2011 12:48 wherebugsgo wrote: He probably watched someone who died on the previous night. He gets a report of everyone who visited that person. If nard visited a person who died, he's almost certainly mafia. This is, of course, has to be what Foolish was saying, because he was a watcher and he was 100% sure nard is mafia. Now, the thing about vain is that there is a TINY possibility he's not mafia. But we'll wait for his claim before anything is said. nard is 100% mafia. Foolish would not have missed considering all the possibilities. He had to have watched someone who died, and nard was the ONLY person visiting them. There can be no mistake here. A 100% confirmed watcher has given us a 100% confirmed mafia On August 28 2011 14:59 Varpulis wrote: Guys, he's a claimed dt who's sure of his sanity. He's claimed his targets, how he knows his sanity, everything. Chaoser's fucked if he's mafia fake claiming, and I can't imagine why mafia would claim dt with no pressure on them. ##vote Vain Also, Bumatlarge is scum. Without a shadow if a doubt, he's scum. Because we already have 2 good targets today, both very likely mafia (one called scum by a dead watcher, one called scum by a living dt) I'm not going to push for his lynch today, but I want to say it before I forget. I'll expand on these after I wake up, it's 2am where I am right now. I'll go with a confirmed blue before a likely blue. We can take out Vain tomorrow, or tonight if we still have a vigilante. nard is a priority because someone we know has a power role that can prove people as mafia has stated that nard is mafia. | ||
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On August 28 2011 23:00 supersoft wrote: oh scum made their homework. Indeed if you randomly visited the poor guy who was killed by the godfather, there might be a chance that you're innocent. But even if there was a GF, chances that you randomly visit the guy who gets killed by him are so low! Mafia also can't chose who visits whom. mafia kills 3 people out of about 18. Depending which night foolish chose to check you. one of them get's killed by the GF. noisys randomly visit 1 guy out of 24 including scum?! the chances that you're visiting someone who gets killed are like 1/8 and the chance that you visit the guy who gets killed by the GF are like 1/3*1/8=1/24 scum Even less than that, because you also have to determine the probability of the GF being the one who killed Foolishness' target. On August 28 2011 23:13 supersoft wrote: you think Foolishness also checked BB? he accused him pretty heavily. I believe he wouldn't do that without having him checked. I think he checked him night1 and nard night2... But why didn't he list BB as 100% scum if he checked him... hmm It's possible that multiple people visited, and BB was one of them. Could he have crumbed this somewhere? | ||
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On August 31 2011 03:20 Varpulis wrote: I suggest we lynch bum -> vain -> pyo. vigs feel free to speed things up. I'm thinking Pyo first. Way more comfortable about him than the other two, because too many people I'm not sure of have been too comfortable with lynching them. | ||
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chaoser - Claims DT with a red check on Vain. Not roleblocked, not hit. Doesn't vote for his red check today. Wherebugsgo - Flips tracker after stating that bumatlarge is probably a framer and Vain is not mafia. Good chance that he visited Vain, who didn't visit anyone. Possibility that Vain is GF. Possibility that he tracked bumatlarge who visited Vain. Possibility of both having tracked Vain and seeing he didn't visit anyone and tracking bumatlarge and seeing him visit Vain. Pyo - Claims DT at night. Has to be encouraged to post his checks, and doesn't post results. Later claims attempting to draw hits/roleblocks and claims naive DT with all green checks. I don't believe him, especially with the number of investigative roles that have already flipped/claimed. Possibility of being a sane DT and his targets actually green. Possibility of actually being a naive DT. Possibility of being a lying scumbag (most likely). Rayzorflash - Still a suspect for some reason. I'm not convinced on him. xtfftc - Still a suspect for some reason. I'm not convinced on him. BB/bumatlarge - Pretty damn scummy. Really wish WBG had left us more information here. Somebody check for breadcrumbs (In WBG's posts, not bum's) in the past day or two. I'd do it if I had the time right now. Post back with results. I suggest a couple people go look and post back so a mafia doesn't do it and fuck us all over. I would be comfortable voting for this guy today. Brief synopsis of my thoughts right now. Discuss. | ||
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On September 01 2011 00:54 chaoser wrote: You're an idiot... 1) I probably didn't get visited by any mafia today cause they're scared of watchers. I'm voting Bum cause wherebugsgo, WHO FLIPPED TRACKER, posted that he saw bum visiting vain. So unless bum is blue, he's probably mafia. Either a framer or medic. If he's the former then vain is innocent, if he's the latter than vain is mafia. KK? 2) WTF wherebugsgo is dead?? Why would he be part of "no idea who to vote for?" And he didn't "visit Vain", he tracked bum TO Vain. There's NO possibility that Vain is GF in this wtf...he never tracked Vain, he tracked BUM. 3) You point on Pyo is 100% repeating other what other people have said and boils down to a summary of what's happened 4) Your part on xtfftc and rayzorflash is basically wasted words. 5) Asking for other people to do work instead of yourself: If we weren't focused on bum today I'd be all over your scummy ass right now. Attack the argument, not the player. No reason to incite emotions over a game of mafia so if you can't be respectful, don't play. 1) I wasn't aware that WBG had clearly stated who he tracked and who they visited. I must have missed that while reading the thread. 2) Obviously I'm not about to vote for him. If you'd read, you'd understand that this was simply a collection of my thoughts, and that the players I mentioned weren't all possible vote candidates. 3) Deal with it. 4) Deal with it. 5) Fucking read. I'd do it if I had the time right now. | ||
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##Vote: Pyo | ||
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On September 01 2011 10:12 bumatlarge wrote: I think you should stick to vain or myself tonight, splitting votes hurts us this late when mafia has a dangerously high amount of players. If need be I'll change it tomorrow morning. For now I feel that Pyo is our best chance. Failing him I'll vote for you. | ||
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##vote bumatlarge | ||
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On September 02 2011 20:17 supersoft wrote: 1. Lucidity 2. chaos13 3. ghrur replaced by Barundar 4. xtfftc 5. Erandorr 6. RayzorFlash 7. darkponcho replaced by VisceraEyes 8. Vain 9. chaoser 10. supersoft 11. Navillus 12. Curu 13. Pyo 14. Kurumi Mafia have done a good job on night kills. I've been suspicious of every single name there at some point or another. I still don't agree with stfftc or Rayzor though. I think they're lynches that should have been dropped a long time ago. What I'm wondering now is why Kurumi is still alive. Chances are he's a scum vigilante. | ||
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Good luck town. Lynch scum. | ||
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On September 05 2011 03:41 wherebugsgo wrote:  | ||
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On September 08 2011 12:03 chaoser wrote: Fake Claiming DT is OP, as both mafia and as town. Nerf that shit please. Random Note: The QT GMarshal posted for Night 5 was from the other game I fake claimed DT Ban fake claiming DT. All the real DT's claim. | ||
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On September 08 2011 14:53 Palmar wrote: Curu scumslipped like a boss and no one noticed but me, thankfully mafia had Kurumi on their side. I guess I have been spoiled by playing with good town players who bother to work for their victory instead of expecting to be carried, and thus I thought it didn't matter how I acted, because people would most certainly be able to tell the difference anyway. This was not the case during this game, people were stuck with their heads up their asses and did not want to read objectively, and thus it's my own failure not to adapt my play to the bad logic that worked with this town. Here is the list I wrote on day 2, remember that later during the day foolishness and dropbear got "confirmed" https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0Aolx7msuf_IvdHZoc05pSE9neVFWOWU2RTVYWWpBRmc&output=html But this game was different, people simply did not want to work for it, and I completely failed to adapt my playstyle to this much more naive town than before. The only person on town's side that had decent reads early was Foolishness, other people like xtf and wbg played alright-ish once they got the chance to pull their heads out of their asses, but that was just too late. Personally I have a huge issue with people who seemingly don't care enough to put any thought into their playing. I had major confusion issues with chaos13 this game, because I couldn't simply write off his terrible reads as nooby, because he's not a noob, he's actually pretty good at this game, but this game everything was so off I simply couldn't imagine any other reason but him being wrong intentionally, while the truth was he simply failed to read the thread. I'm going to bold this, because I failed to do this once when I was a newbie, and you all need to learn this lesson. Whenever a townie dies or gets confirmed, especially through a lynch or vig shot, re-read the entire thread with this new information in hand. Foolishness died and had so many nuggets of wisdom. I died and left you with basically the entire mafia team uncovered, but still you lynched people who were obviously not scum. It's so important to read the thread and not focus on looking for "scummy things" or "scumtells". That's what gets uncareful townies lynched, like Hiro and Sevryn. Anyone should've been able to tell they were town, it is how I initially pinned Curu as scum, he's very good at mafia and thus couldn't possibly think the Hiro and Sevryn lynches were good ideas. It was also the case against Mig. This game is just the pinnacle of what happens when you mix pride with lazyness, you end up with a shitty, shitty town that's unable to do anything constructive. On day one we had a mafia against the wall, but we lynched a very, very obvious townie (like, what mafia would so blatantly bandwagon me?) because I was too proud to change my approach, and town was too proud and lazy to listen to my arguments and actually read Sevryn's posts and deduce the mindset he was in when he made those. Thing is, I'll admit it, I'm getting more lazy with posting in a political way, by now I expect people to just listen to what I say, when I'm town and they do it usually ends up very well for town, but sometimes people just don't, and it's hard having to convince the same people every game. Some of us are just never going to be any useful anyway, VisceraEyes has almost never had a correct read, yet he seems unwilling to step back and reassess his approach. Kurumi is a troublemaker in his own, and giving him a gun was the worst thing that could happen to town. chaos13 has been having a streak of terrible reads (cosmic horror, xliv etc) but he'll bounce back once he lets go of his pride, because he's actually good. I think both xtf and wbg have the potential to be good players, same with supersoft, and if hiro protagonist plays town like this again he can easily elevate himself to a good player too. And then there's of course balance to consider, with DropBear and chaos13 derping like mad, who were supposed to be some of town's best and most experienced players there was very little to work with for town. Mafia had 4 really good players, Curu, Mig, BrownBear and chaoser, while town really only had three, Jackal, Foolishness and me. Anyway, I guess this game can act as a collective lesson to us all. So many new or new-ish people got their first taste of being completely fucking wrong time and time again this game, so I hope it allows them to break down and re-build their approach to play better mafia in the future, loads of fairly new players in this game that can go on to be good. As for myself, I'll never again take being listened to for granted, I thought Foolishness's "If Palmar is mafia he's on drugs" would be enough, but again, head in ass syndrome ruined reads for town. Whenever someone like Foolishness says something like that, and then becomes confirmed, people better fucking listen. Well played mafia, and again, sorry for my own performance this game. GG The timing of this game (and the last few) coincided with a few issues in my life, as well as being very busy at work, so I wasn't quite prepared for it, and I really do apologize for both my play in this game and my disrespect towards you. I just didn't have the time or motivation to be doing more than skimming until around the time I died unfortunately. With that said, I still have an issue with your play style this game - it was spammy as hell. Now that the game is over and I'm able to look at it from a more objective perspective, I can see a little more easily how it works, but I still feel it causes more problems than it solves. When the entire town is making random accusations and jumping on bandwagons, mafia can feel free to do the same without fear of any repercussions. Not only that, but posts without real content become the norm, and proper analysis starts to disappear. In a situation like this I suppose it is up to myself individually to ignore all that and not become part of it, but I allowed myself to become irritated and my play suffered greatly as a result. Regardless of the beginnings of my newfound understanding, I don't quite see how an atmosphere like this really benefits the town. How is this better than a game where everyone is calm, logical, and analytical, doesn't spam, and pays complete attention to scumhunting? | ||
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