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TL Mafia XLIV - Page 52

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Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
August 23 2011 09:34 GMT
#1021
Good morning

Foolish, I for one can tell you that I absolutely have diverted attention away from Mig. Why ? Because I am not buying it as of yet. Do I think Mig might be Scum? He may very well be.
But what I have tried to say earlier already is that if you ignore the experiences you already have with a player, your whole meta argument, then your suspicions seem not as strong. That does not mean Mig is town by any means, but there are people i think of as equally scummy, if not more, and right now I do not see the reason not to vote for those I have listed before.
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
August 23 2011 10:01 GMT
#1022
Doesn't Foolishness have fame of being killed night 1?
TBH I wonder why they killed JeeJee over BrownBear, isn't BrownBear better?
a)
Yes I know I lurked
b)
I was on sleepover at friend's place blabla
c)
before that I was bored and did not read the thread (same goes with Werewolves)
d)
since we got a roleblock+hit on Foolishness I think he would get noticed "You got hit" if he was medic protected, I mean, this is quite normal? 2 lives+1 life - 1 life = You got hit
e)
Any questions?
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Lucidity
Profile Joined July 2010
South Africa603 Posts
August 23 2011 10:01 GMT
#1023
At the end of Day 1.

Mig, Foolishness and Rayzor are clearly scum buddies.
Valar Morghulis
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
August 23 2011 10:11 GMT
#1024
On August 23 2011 18:30 xtfftc wrote:
Wall of text incoming:

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:
xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip?????

Of course townkills have nothing to do with modkills. Townkills are made by town, modkills by mods. What is the problem?


On August 23 2011 08:49 GreYMisT wrote:
I posted an analysis of a post by xfftc early on. here it is as well:


Show nested quote +
On August 19 2011 10:45 GreYMisT wrote:

I have to agree with the above post fingering xfftc. On page 7-8 he starts an argument about what it means to lurk in a game with new people. He is seemingly advocating lurking in this post below

On August 19 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote:
Surely the Mafia is aware that open discussion is the ordinary citizens' strongest weapon and are thus likely to target those who are unafraid to speak their minds? A dictator always targets the means of communication: the media, the internet, etc.



But in the below post he contradicts himself by saying that if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose.

On August 19 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote:
Surely the Mafia is aware that open discussion is the ordinary citizens' strongest weapon and are thus likely to target those who are unafraid to speak their minds? A dictator always targets the means of communication: the media, the internet, etc.



And I already pointed out what was wrong with this:
I never said that "if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose" - I said that "One person is not a problem unless the others follow suit."




On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 05:09 xtfftc wrote:
##Vote: Palmar

He obviously had something in mind and there's no way he wasn't aware of how his accusations would be perceived by the rest of us.

However, his strategy hasn't benefited town by now. He has until the deadline to convince me to vote DropBear or BrownBear. If nothing meaningful comes out of the discussion initiated by him, I'd rather have one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around.

I'd also like to point out that it shouldn't be that difficult to convince me to switch to DropBear, considering DropBear's behaviour.


This is interesting. Can't say it wasn't welcome at the time considering how much Palmar was tunnelling me, but I go back to it and it feels rather strange. He wants "one less player who throws meaningless accusations around" sounds a lot like he wants "no players throwing accusations around" because at that point Palmar was really the only guy who was putting any suspicion on anyone (there was the sevryn thing, but that wasn't born out of someone accusing sevryn, that was more born out of someone noticing a pretty obvious slip sevryn made). Thing is, if nobody's accusing anyone, that's a veeery pro-mafia atmosphere. I suppose from the other side, it could be seen as him wanting to clean up the thread a little bit, but generally, going for the guy with the most posts on day 1 means you want to make day 2 a lot quieter - not a very town-centric viewpoint unless the guy with the most posts is really obvious scum (which Palmar isn't).


When you look at this post, you have to look at the context as well - what else was happening at this point of the game. The filter option is great but no statement should be considered without a background. I liked Palmer's strategy and decided to play along. Before my vote on Palmer (and the few other votes that followed), most of his accusations were one-liners. Afterwards, he presented a well-written case against you. It wasn't enough to get you lynched on day 1 but it was a start.


On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2011 03:04 xtfftc wrote:
On August 21 2011 02:56 Curu wrote:
wat

I'm asking for your thoughts on Sevyrn. Surely you have some thoughts on Sevyrn just from reading the thread like a good diligent Townie would be doing. I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now.

Mafia. The "pressure vote" thingie sounded too much like an attempt to be tough on mafia - and once he realised he screwed up he tried to disappear.

On August 21 2011 02:57 supersoft wrote:xtfftc on the other hand confuses my "I-know-not-all-of-you-are-scum-so-please-vote-list" with my accuses on him. I admit, I overlooked him when I made that list. However that doesn't mean my accuse on the first place was a mistake.
I didn't revenge-voted him for voting palmar. I don't care who votes palmar. I voted him for his reason to vote Palmar.

I never said such a thing - I simply pointed out you were sloppy.


Pretty weak and short reasoning to change your opinion and jump on a bandwagon dude. At least your Palmar accusation had some balls behind it.

Again, context. When I was asked about Sevryn, I said I wanted to read his response and to analyse his earlier posts further but I needed some time because I had to answer to a lot of other stuff as well. But Curu was not happy with this and said "I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now". I gave him that - and now apparently I am guilty for the very same reason.


A little more explanation - but still not really any contribution. He wants to see the saga of me/DB/Palmar develop further... At that point it had pretty much settled into Palmar tunnelling me and Dropbear being mostly forgotten.

DB was mostly forgotten but I wasn't happy with this.


Shows a little bit of a lack of paying attention to the thread... at that point Sev wasn't a modkill candidate (unless the fact that he had voted but unvoted meant he would get modkilled, but I don't think that's how it works. If I'm wrong, then nvm.)

Context. How can you seriously say that this shows "a lack of paying attention to the thread"?! Just read Wherebugsgo's post that I was replying to.

Show nested quote +
On August 21 2011 03:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
LOL Sevryn's running out of time. If he doesn't vote/defend himself, he gets modkilled, no?

The question is whether he will get modkilled enough to allow us another lynch target.


Again, if anyone isn't paying attention, it is those who build cases against me.


Also, there was no chance I was gonna get lynched at that point.


After Sevryn, you were the one with most votes at the time ^^

Raises the concept of a no-lynch (this was in the period where everyone was thinking "wait a minute what if Sev's just dumb town?).


It was just after midnight in Europe and the question was whether we should stick to Sevryn or unvote him. There wasn't time for anything else. It would be good to bear this in mind tonight as well because unless there are two strong candidates, a switch isn't going to happen in the last few hours before the deadline.

So you're saying, instead of just voting and going to pass out, he voted late, then decided to switch for the guy you've been pushing all game... and this makes him scummy? I don't follow your logic at all, care to explain this one?

No, he didn't decide to switch. Everyone else who was online was considering switching to Rayzor when Mig came in and voted for Sevryn.

Although your case is much better thought through than the arguments against me presented by Supersoft, Quicksilver and Greymist, you have also overlooked quite a few of the facts. :/

I'd really appreciate it if Hiro answers to this:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 06:25 xtfftc wrote:
I did not say anything about the negative aspects of random accusations. I said that if I was scum, I would not want someone around that randomly accuses people.

Well you could have asked me why it is that I don't want people throwing random accusations and I would have explained to you what is my stance on the issue. Why it is that you decided to vote before enquiring is beyond me.


And finally, there is a limit to how much I can read and write. I can not keep on answering to the same accusations again and again and do a proper analysis of someone else at the same time. Those of you who are unhappy with my previous contributions might want to consider giving me a breather.


why won't you tell us your thoughts about these people: nard, kurumi and mig.
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
August 23 2011 10:13 GMT
#1025
On August 23 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:
@Mig

How did you not see the fact that sevryn was going to flip town on day 1? That's very unusual for you.


Meh it didn't seem so obvious to me. All of his actions from early on and the middle of the day were scummy and they were different than his play in the last 2 games I had played with him where he was generally much more passive early on as town. His defense late seemed more townie but even that I thought could still have been plausible scum play trying to last ditch save himself.

What do you think about my case against Dropbear?
Moderator
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
August 23 2011 10:23 GMT
#1026
I have blatantly ignored this thread for a few days due to time constraints, another mafia game, and horrible, horrible spam. VE in the start I read your posts for comedy value, but now I'm just ignoring them. Other people have gotten the "town, ignore" stamp as well for my own sanity. Some people are promoting a decisively bad town atmosphere, so I'm suspicious of them.

Xttffc is most likely town. He posts opinions straight away without fear, and the case against him is bad.

Mig however made a bad defense at the start of the day and since disappeared. He blames it on general apathy towards mafia games, but to me it looks like apathy towards the thread after being pegged. On top of that I can't help but notice how many people are almost begging for a reason not to vote him, xttfc is clearly the easy wagon here that mafia is pushing.

As such,

##Vote Mig
Bartundar
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
August 23 2011 10:23 GMT
#1027
On August 23 2011 19:13 Mig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:
@Mig

How did you not see the fact that sevryn was going to flip town on day 1? That's very unusual for you.


Meh it didn't seem so obvious to me. All of his actions from early on and the middle of the day were scummy and they were different than his play in the last 2 games I had played with him where he was generally much more passive early on as town. His defense late seemed more townie but even that I thought could still have been plausible scum play trying to last ditch save himself.

What do you think about my case against Dropbear?


I think it's very good, seeing as dropbear is reasonably active and almost always content with speaking his mind when he's town, to the point of trolling the thread. But this time it's almost as he's disappeared until the heat is off him.

It's actually the one saving grace in your play from my point of view. I'll call you bad names on skype if you flip town this game.

I'd like your thoughts on the following players: BrownBear, VisceraEyes, Curu
Computer says mafia
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
August 23 2011 10:27 GMT
#1028
Barundar what are you even talking about disappeared? Have you read at all what I posted today? Did you even look at my case against dropbear.
Moderator
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
August 23 2011 10:31 GMT
#1029
I have posted like 50 times today and you are voting for me because I disappeared after being pegged? Brilliant.
Moderator
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
August 23 2011 10:33 GMT
#1030
On August 23 2011 19:27 Mig wrote:
Barundar what are you even talking about disappeared? Have you read at all what I posted today? Did you even look at my case against dropbear.

I read it, and I read through his posts. Apart from his first post I don't see him as particularly scummy, just afk.
Bartundar
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
August 23 2011 10:38 GMT
#1031
Really? I mean really? You didn't notice how he was active early on in the game making fluff posts for town cred but then completely disappeared once the game actually got going? Or the fact that he has completely contradicted himself multiple times. Or the fact that like 2hours before the end of day1 he appeared introduced 2 new candidates for lynch and then disappeared without pushing for them at all so that he was effectively sitting out of the day1 lynch. None of these things strike you as scummy?
Moderator
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
August 23 2011 10:51 GMT
#1032
You might have a point upon re-reading, I've been scimming a large part of the thread. I'm down with a vote off between you and him, xttffc looks town to me though.
Bartundar
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
August 23 2011 10:53 GMT
#1033
On August 23 2011 19:51 Barundar wrote:
You might have a point upon re-reading, I've been scimming a large part of the thread. I'm down with a vote off between you and him, xttffc looks town to me though.


what?
You would be okay to vote for xtfffffffftc but think hes town?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
August 23 2011 10:54 GMT
#1034
If you think he is town then go vote for Mig -.-
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
August 23 2011 10:56 GMT
#1035
malicious or accidental mis-reading Erandorr?

Barundar clearly says he's okay with a vote-off between those two contenders, and he also makes it clear which one he'll be supporting.
Computer says mafia
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
August 23 2011 10:56 GMT
#1036
Errandorr before you post stop for 2 seconds and re-read your posts. I'm down with a vote off between DB and Mig.
Bartundar
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
August 23 2011 10:57 GMT
#1037
also, I misread too! yay!
Computer says mafia
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
August 23 2011 10:58 GMT
#1038
whops sorry barundar
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
August 23 2011 10:59 GMT
#1039
Palmar so you think its okay to vote for someone even though you think he probably is town?
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 23 2011 11:01 GMT
#1040
Can you explain why xtfftc is the scum wagon and not Mig? From what I've seen people are actually posting reasons for their xtfftc votes while Mig, whose wagon has been building faster, has a bunch of people who deposit their votes and go afk (Varpulis, DropBear, Barundar who admits he voted without even reading the thread).

Also is it just me or is this indicative of an extremely anti Town mindset?

This is interesting. Can't say it wasn't welcome at the time considering how much Palmar was tunnelling me, but I go back to it and it feels rather strange.

...

not a very town-centric viewpoint unless the guy with the most posts is really obvious scum (which Palmar isn't).


From BrownBear. He welcomed/encouraged a vote on Palmar (who he doesn't think is scum) that he later slams for being a bad scummy vote.
wat
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