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On August 31 2011 01:19 Barundar wrote:
Shitiest fake claim I've ever seen. At least give us the results of said checks.
And while you are here, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Bumatlarge, Vain, Kurumi and Rayzorflash please.
bumatlarge - no idea really, I thought BB was scum, but the sub (and the need to be subbed in the first place) has thrown me off so I don't really know. WBG's analysis of him felt like bullshit though.
Vain - I voted for him after having checked him, what do you think I think of him?
kurumi - As far as I'm concerned he isn't even playing this game. I don't read his posts - I might have an aneurism if I actually do.
Rayzorflash - I feel like he's scum. I checked errandor for more or less the same reason I am suspicious of rayzor - somewhat late bandwagon votes on mig and lurking nearly as much as me.
Also, checking jackal night 1 did not confirm my sanity since naive DT's will return green for everyone.
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On August 31 2011 01:43 supersoft wrote:
this looks like a DB-DT-claim to me. Fake and extremely distracting.
distracting from what? it's night time... there's nothing to distract from.
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On August 31 2011 15:09 Barundar wrote:The only thing that bothers me about Pyo is he claim DT at night, which could be a shitty attempt of trying to draw a hit, which I didn't consider before I called BS on it. But that would mean he had to write his flavor text himself, since GM only give fake flavor to mafia, and the flavor text looks very convincing. I'm leaning mafia on him unless he make a bloody good case for his innocence. I've been ignoring VE for a long time, but I like WBG's points against him upon re-reading. I'll have to look more into him, but we might end up at a point where he is simply the only one left I don't have a town read on  . Btw why the hell is mafia not RB'ing you?
DING DING DING, we have a winrar. I know I had been lurking a bunch as I tried to figure out my sanity, but once chaoser came out and claimed, I knew I was a naive DT (every check, including Vain, has returned green) xtfftc returned green. I figured the best I could do was try to draw the hit away from chaoser or at least put off the death of a confirmed sane DT for another day. I am not quite sure what to make of both of us still being alive and neither of us being role blocked - my guess is that they were hunting for a medic.
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On August 31 2011 22:09 supersoft wrote:
well, i am not sure about BB. I think we should stick to vain who is in my eves definetely scummier.
my mafialist is:
xtfftc, rayzorflash, vain, BB
why do you keep saying BB? BB is not in the game anymore... Pretty clear willful ignorance of what is actually going on in this game...
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On September 01 2011 07:23 chaoser wrote:Case For Pyo:Pyo has posted very little, most of which have been either responses to other player's ideas, rewordings of what others have said or questions. He never took any opinions of his own and hasn't contributed to town in the least, merely posting but not actually posting. But the thing I want to focus the most on is his DT Claim. In his first part of his claim yesterday, he states: Show nested quote +Vain - I voted for him after having checked him, what do you think I think of him? Show nested quote +Night 1 - jackal
Night 2 - Vain
Night 3 - Erandorr
As for my sanity, if chaoser is really a DT and really is sane, then I know my sanity as well since we checked Vain on different nights. Which all seem to paint a picture that he knows exactly what sanity he is (sane). He even says he checked Vain and his result agreed with mine, suggesting that he was a sane DT and his checks were correct. What doesn't make sense is that when I stated that I checked Vain and he came out red, Pyo came up right behind the idea and voted for Vain, even though the previous day he had checked Vain himself and gotten green (since he now claims he is a naive DT). Even if he wasn't sure of his sanity, you'd think he'd be a least a little bit wary of what I said But he got behind me as quickly as I claimed, pushing for Vain to be lynched. Even now he pushes for vain's lynch even though wherebugsgo has posted his tracker list that highly suggests that bum is indeed a framer (now I understand why wherebugsgo was so sure of that argument). This added to the fact that he refused to give us his results, claimed DT at night to try to shape today's lynch to go towards Vain, and continue to push the idea after wherebugsgo has given us his track list, suggests that he is mafia pushing for a vain mislynch. We'll know for certain after this day's lynch cycle if there is a framer flip but I suggest a lynch for Pyo on the next day cycle.
No you've got it wrong. I got green every time, however if I came out and said that to everyone I'm obviously naive and the whole point of claiming (to draw the hit away from you) would be completely moot. The only problem is that if I actually had gotten red read on anyone after having checked Jackal and gotten green, I'd know that I would be sane (since jackal flipped green). But in reality, I only got green so I didn't know I was naive until you confirmed yourself to be sane and revealed your check of someone I had checked. SO, if you are telling the truth and the extremely unlikely situation of Vain getting framed didn't happen then I am naive and no more useful than a green townie who had been lurking (I had been lurking because I wanted to stay under the radar since I was blue - but whatever). Long story short, I'm a useless townie who with no cred for having lurked most of the game.
So I decided to try to make myself useful in some way by trying to draw a hit from a "confirmed" sane DT. I posted my flavor text to prove to mafia that I am DT (only they can get a safe claim and they know I'm not one of them). I then tried to be cryptic about what my reads actually were so they wouldn't automatically know that I am naive, while trying to imply that your read on vain was correct - note that the reason I even checked him in the first place was because I thought he was scummy, which is why I was happy to go along with your vote. I really would have liked (and still would like) to see him flip red, to confirm chaoser as being truthful and to absolutely confirm my sanity. I was truthful about who I checked because I was worried if I totally pulled something out of my ass it would look really bad, especially given the number of watchers/noisy neighbors/etc in this game (by the way, if you are a watcher and can confirm that i am telling the truth, DO NOT CLAIM - there's no point and I'm not trying to blue fish here either). Basically, mafia knew/know my claim was truthful, but mafia last night would not know whether my checks were truthful, and therefore shouldn't have been able to confirm my sanity. This at worst forces mafia to have to make a decision about whether to kill me, kill chaoser, kill neither of us, waste a role block on me, or whatever. Right or wrong, I don't think I could have played the situation any better given that I had been lurking for most of the game to that point.
If you really don't believe me, go ahead and lynch me then look very carefully at the reactions (or lack thereof) to my night claim. Notice who is up front about saying "you're full of shit, mafia must be desperate" and who says, "um yeah, sure. He must be lying, yeah." Keep in mind that mafia know I am telling the truth given my flavor text. I don't want to bias your impressions by naming names yet, but I feel like there are some people who legitimately don't believe me, and others who "don't believe me" because that's the "in" thing to do. (of course there's also RayzorFlash, VisceraEyes, Navillus, and Curu who had nothing to say and have all but disappeared from the game long before I made any claim.)
Finally, if you want to get an idea of where I was coming from by my claim, go look at SNMMIV.
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On August 31 2011 10:57 wherebugsgo wrote:hmm... foolishness ? mig -----> jackal bum -----> vain ?? I shall vote bum. + Show Spoiler +
herpaderp... just noticed this... as much as I'd like to see vain flip.
##vote bumatlarge
I'm gonna totally be kicking myself if it turns out I'm actually sane...
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On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote:
Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time.
Seriously, where is the connection between me and BB/Bum coming from... People have been saying this all game...
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On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote:
Pyo put more effort into justifying his plan than in executing the plan itself - and it sounds to me as if the idea only occured to him after some of us suggested that he was trying to draw the attention away from somebody else. He also refused to comment on Kurumi, whom I am still suspicious of.
Read SNMMIV...
I didn't refuse to comment on Kurumi, I refused to acknowledge that he's playing in this game. Kurumi is an obnoxious, spammy player that always seems scummy - any read on him is a null read. I don't really believe anything he's said or that he actually is what he claimed to be, but chaoser checked him and got green, so assuming chaoser isn't lying, there's nothing else to say about him.
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On September 02 2011 00:51 Barundar wrote:
Pyo you still haven't given your last check (the one from last night).
Yes I did!!! xtffftc came back green...
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I'll respond to curu if I live through the night.
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ok, I didn't want to do the analysis myself because I wanted people to read the thread and come to the correct conclusions themselves, but since everyone who would probably be willing/capable of doing so is already dead, I guess I'll just put it out there, then you can all lynch me and interpret what you want from it. I mean given that there's a slight possibility that I'm actually a sane DT, I wasn't going to post a defense of myself since if everyone thinks I'm town mafia are less likely to go ahead and off me, the more I think about it, I really doubt that I'm actually sane - after all if bum was framing Vain night 3, he probably was also framing him night 2 when I checked him, so whatever, here goes:
First of all, the "filter" option for mafia games needs to be removed. People are being lazy and it is deteriorating the level of play for mafia game analysis. Rather than looking at the context surrounding posts (the "why" of what people are saying), people are only looking at individual posts (the "what"). And that is really bad. Take Curu's "analysis" of me
On September 03 2011 03:06 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 19:26 Pyo wrote:On August 20 2011 17:20 Palmar wrote:
I think it's kinda scummy to call out Curu on using fuck twice in the same sentence while you have this in your signature...
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery"
By the way, BrownBear is the person I want dead today. I'm not sure how to interpret what Foolishness is saying, but at least he's right. woah, woah, woah... BrownBear? I thought you wanted DropBear dead? Oh look, he doesn't want BrownBear dead.
No, I absolutely wasn't saying BrownBear shouldn't be lynched, I was saying "why was Palmar suddenly changing FoS target?" You would know this if you were actually reading the thread as it was happening.
On September 03 2011 03:06 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:44 Jackal58 wrote:On August 21 2011 05:34 Foolishness wrote:
Man this is a touch choice Which choice is that? I'm unvoting Sevryn. As I previously stated he has not set off any bells with what he had posted but by his disappearance. I'm confused. What do you mean by this? What exactly has changed that would warrant you changing your vote? The only thing I can see is that he's received the critical mass to actually have a lynch so he'll get lynched even if you change your vote. Are you trying to cover your tracks for if/when he flips green?
Trying to set up Jackal for a fall after Sevyrn's flip.[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? All I am doing is calling out jackal's undeclared/explained change of opinion. That isn't going to set anyone up to take the fall for anything. And if I was, why would mafia abandon this plan by kiling jackal night 2? Again, curu is reading an individual post without takign the context of the thread into account.
On September 03 2011 03:06 Curu wrote:He does vote for Mig but very reluctantly and with "buts" all over the place. While voting for Mig in this post, he also tries to tell us to find someone else to lynch because he doesn't think Mig will get a majority: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 07:22 Pyo wrote:On August 24 2011 07:02 Pyo wrote:
had no internet for a day... im caught up to page 55, gonna place my vote on Mig, but i might change it if I finish reading the thread before the deadline. Wow, DT claim into medic claim? I don't think I believe him, but then again, if he's for real, he'll be dead by the hands of the mafia. I'm going to keep my vote on Mig. He's gone with the "I'm burned out on mafia" defense of his posting into one-liners, which is as scummy as anyone else here (except for DB's role claiming). That said, I don't think he's going to get enough votes to actually be lynched.
Again, taken out of context of the thread... This was 4 hours before the deadline and I had just gotten back from having no internet for a while. I was the 5th vote on Mig, 14 were required to lynch. In case you don't remember the night 2 vote counts. In fact, Mig wasn't even lynched that night, so yeah, I didn't think Mig would get a majority, and in fact didn't get one.
As for the voting for Vain, I was the 3rd person to vote and first person to vote for vain, I just didn't change my vote, part because it didn't matter and part because vain flipping red would have confirmed my sanity. Also if you recall, the entire thread was convinced that both nard and vain were scum given chaoser's DT claim and WBG not yet having given the results of his watching. There was nothing scummy about having voted for vain if you actually consider the thread.
No offense Curu, but your posts had little if anything to do with Vain being considered scummy by people. The fact that 2 DT's independently checked him means he was being plenty scummy. In retrospect, it makes sense that mafia would want to frame a scummy looking town.
On September 02 2011 03:05 Curu wrote:Just got back from my trip to Montreal, still a little hungover. I'd like to lynch bum then Pyo, remember that thing I typed way back when DB fakeclaimed DT about how claiming naive/insane DT is a great play for Mafia? Yeah. Convenient that the claim comes out after he's finally being called out for lurking all game and how it perfectly gives him an excuse to be a lurker. Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 01:48 Pyo wrote:
bumatlarge - no idea really, I thought BB was scum, but the sub (and the need to be subbed in the first place) has thrown me off so I don't really know. WBG's analysis of him felt like bullshit though.
If bum flips red I'm pretty sure Pyo is red too, especially if Vain is Town (he was one of the first/only to vote Vain over nard). Also this is the dumbest reason to soft defend anyone I've ever seen.
I'll also take this opportunity to defend my assessment of WBG. I said that WBG's analysis of Bum was bullshit, and yeah it was. Everything he was saying was total grasping at straws. Basically, WBG knew that Bum was scum because of his blue power. His "analysis" was simply a way to push for bum being scum without directly coming out and saying, "hey everyone, I'm a blue and bum is scum." I interpreted it as shady analysis with an agenda, and I was right in a sense. However, I thought it was because he was mafia trying to push something - turns out he was a blue trying to push something.
In any case take a look at how people responded to my claim:
Lucidity:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169223 - asks for checks
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169895 - says that I got red from vain
Barnudar:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169230 - asks a bunch of questions
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169325 - thinks I outed myself to get wbg killed
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169502 - pressures me to give results of checks
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169743 - says I am lying
chaos13:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169261 - makes a 1-liner post 15 minutes after my claim ignoring my claim
Erandorr:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169619 - thinks that me checking jackal night 1 confirms my sanity
Kurumi:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169627 - random BS
supersoft:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11169739 - compares my claim to DB's as being fake (note DB's wasn't fake)
Varpulis:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11170060 - criticizes my claim timing
xtfftc:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11170079 - thinks my claim is a mafia suiciding
bumatlarge:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11170273 - going along with the bandwagon saying that my claim is fake
Those are all the people to speak up to the first confirmed scum said anything. After this point anyone saying anything could possibly be scum weighing in.
Now, think about this all from the mafia perspective for a second here. What do they know? They know that bum framed Vain night 3. They know I'm not lying about being a DT because I posted my flavor text. I could be lying about my checks however since they have no idea where I actually have been. Now given bum's response, it's clear that mafia has decided that they are going to direct the next lynch to me since it's clear that the momentum of town is toward not believing me.
Ok, so what do we learn from individuals' reactions. Well, first of all:
1. Barnudar is probably town. He is extremely aggressive in calling me out as a liar, before I even gave my checks - scum would be at least somewhat hesitant to go after me given my flavor text.
2. chaos13 is extremely suspicious. He posted 15 minutes after my claim, which means he was at least active in following what was going on, but didn't comment on my claim at all. In fact, the next thing he posted was actually this, where he suggests lynching me over Bum. Also look at his next post. If I'm so likely to be scum, why does my claiming to be DT have any influence over anything? This is a contradiction in behavior. Also, go back further through chaos13's history and you'll find this little gem. Chaos13 was trying to make town panic by saying that we were in LYLO, when we were nowhere close to it. And if you read the thread, basically this whole LYLO nonsense came at a time where Mig was in the hotseat. Making people doubt their voting and being worried about voting the wrong person is a great way to defend another scum without actually defending them.
And now finally, there's this post:
On September 01 2011 21:44 bumatlarge wrote:
Et tu pyo?
Would scum really say somethign retarded like that about another scum member? Yeah sure you can write that off as WIFOM, but scum wouldn't put themselves in a WIFOM situation. Whatever, if you all really still think I'm scum so be it. Just after I flip, go back and actually read the thread and think about WHY people are saying what they are saying, not just WHAT people are saying.
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I'm pretty sure that the scum team can be found within Rayzor, supersoft, chaos13 and Navillus
I was going to write up more analysis of them but i ran out of time.
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Damn it! I thought I was onto something with chaos - so I have a shitty scumdar...
RayzorFlash returned innocent. I'm pretty sure now that I'm a naive DT, so I'll add Erandorr back to my suspects list.
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On September 03 2011 11:13 chaoser wrote:
Mafia's at 3 players right now, if we lynch another mafia today then they'll be at 1 kp. Would they want to kill 1 dude today or 2 dudes today? Think about it.
especially given that they have a roleblocker, this was the obvious move on their part.
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ya know, it was awfully convenient that you happened to be able to confirm your sanity after the first 2 nights and happened to have picked the person who was getting framed as your 3rd check. Ya know, you still haven't technically confirmed that you really are town.
If you all are going to lynch me not much more I can do to stop it... I've stated my defense as well as I can, but when I flip blue, I think it's pretty clear who should really be lynched.
##vote: chaoser
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Ok mr godfather. there's been a couple too many coincidences for me to believe it.
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On September 03 2011 21:01 Jackal58 wrote: Someday I hope to still be playing on page 110. 
You aren't missing anything.
Optimal winning strategy for scum in TL Mafia:
1. Identify people who actually read the thread.
2. Systematically eliminate them
3. Act blatantly scummy and set up fake claims to mock the town that just gets sheeped around.
4. Snicker and laugh with each other in the mafia QT when no one believes a truthful DT claim.
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On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 11:11 RayzorFlash wrote:
WTF chaoser survives 2 nights after claiming AND saying he found a scum (which was itself made at a really bad time where he could've been trying to cause a mislynch from Mig)?
Something isn't right here... I am now way more comfortable with lynching Rayzor than I was before.
I am actually starting to think that Rayzor might not be scum - regardless, this statement doesn't indicate scumminess unless you are dead-set on believing chaoser is town, which town really shouldn't be. I was wrong about chaos13, so I certainly could have been wrong about Rayzor.
On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 13:40 Pyo wrote:
ya know, it was awfully convenient that you happened to be able to confirm your sanity after the first 2 nights and happened to have picked the person who was getting framed as your 3rd check. Ya know, you still haven't technically confirmed that you really are town.
If you all are going to lynch me not much more I can do to stop it... I've stated my defense as well as I can, but when I flip blue, I think it's pretty clear who should really be lynched.
##vote: chaoser You just defended Chaoser after Rayzor's attempt to compromise him and now you make a 180° turn. You stated that Rayzor is a likely red; then you checked him and got innocent back, which made you think that you are naive indeed - and then completely forgot about your suspect and decided to join him in discrediting Chaoser?
I didn't completely forget that, but rather it just occurred to me that my biggest mistake might have been the assumption that Chaoser was telling the truth. This should allay my concerns:
As a roleblocker, are you obligated to roleblock someone? If someone is roleblocked, but does not have a role, are they informed of the roleblock?
On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:
A DT wants to confirm their sanity as soon as possible. Chaoser confirming himself on Night 2 was not convenient - it was imperative. You fake-claimed and this is why you are "pretty sure" that you are naive on Day 6.
what was suspicious wasn't that he had found a way to "confirm" himself, but rather that he would just happen to have investigated the target of the frame. And I didn't fake claim.
On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +ok, I didn't want to do the analysis myself because I wanted people to read the thread and come to the correct conclusions themselves Why would a townie not want to help us reach the correct conclussions? And then why would the said townie spent most of their long post on defending himself instead of actually contributing?
I don't really have any town cred, so me say "hey guys, I'm innocent and here's why..." is just as likely to be written off by people as "meh whaterver, scum just trying to manipulate town. I would rather people actually look at the game and make their decisions based on their own analysis rather than rely on it being spoon-fed to them.
On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +No, I absolutely wasn't saying BrownBear shouldn't be lynched, I was saying "why was Palmar suddenly changing FoS target?" You would know this if you were actually reading the thread as it was happening. I did actually read the thread before posting my analysis on you earlier. Palmar had five posts about BB already: 1 2 3 4 5, yet you only reacted to the last one. Curu was correct to point this out as mafia behaviour.
What are you talking about? Here is what he said in those 5 posts you linked:
On August 20 2011 03:51 Palmar wrote:
Also, you seem to be advocating lynching lurkers quite heavily. Care to elaborate on that?
On August 20 2011 03:53 Palmar wrote:
I just want to point out I now think Brownbear is scum too.
On August 20 2011 03:53 Palmar wrote:
I bolded the scum-logic part.
On August 20 2011 04:05 Palmar wrote:
Well, I read that as any scummy asshole with a plan is going to get a free bye on day 1, because you want to lynch someone inactive?
Or does, the free pass on making plans and blanket statements to avoid the lynch only extend to a specific pool of people?
Why would I respond to pointless one-liners?
On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +As for the voting for Vain, I was the 3rd person to vote and first person to vote for vain, I just didn't change my vote, part because it didn't matter and part because vain flipping red would have confirmed my sanity. You were willing to lynch a townie to confirm yourself as being a naive (i.e. useless) DT?
I didn't (and don't) know that Vain is town. Him flipping would inform me of my sanity, so I wasn't going to go out of my way to prevent vain from flipping.
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Since nothing I say seems to be convincing anyone and nobody seems to have read my big long posts explaining my reasoning and my reads on WBG and chaos13 were completely wrong and there are could be traitors present, there isn't much point continuing to defend myself or giving anymore scum reads.
Just go ahead and lynch me. Now start thinking about who you will lynch next. If you all are wrong, we'll be in LYLO, so you can't make anymore mistakes. If I am scum, then you should be thinking about who my scum buddies are.
There are some guys who have been far bigger lurkers than I have been (even before my claim).
Navillus had some crazy mayor idea at the beginning of the game, then totally disappeared when it got shot down, yet somehow manages to sort of pop in here and there.
Supersoft has been extremely wishy-washy on whether he believes me or not. At one point mocking me for being bad and at one point saying he actually believed me then going back to saying that I was lying.
When was the last time VisceraEyes said anything? Same with Erandorr. Look at this post and the quoted post within it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11219469
If I am going to be lynched, you all should be demanding that everyone in the thread take a stance about me – hopefully you guys will actually start reading the thread rather than just herpa-derping while you let scum sheep you around.
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On September 04 2011 09:31 RayzorFlash wrote:
I was suspicious of chaoser's claim ever since he actually claimed it, check my earlier posts. The longer he stays alive without providing more "useful" information, the more suspicious I get.Especially because of the initial timing of his claim, added to the new information about bum being framer, and in his two nights since then he hasn't provided anything useful except for being roleblocked, and Kurumi coming up green which could be misdirection itself
I'm also inclined to think Pyo and Navillus are scum, Pyo because of the horribly bad claim, and Navillus because of how hard he's been lurking despite being the one to propose the lurker list in the first place
Would be up to vote for either Pyo, Nav, or Chaoser today, based on who's closer to majority. For now that would be
##Vote: Pyo
^traitor
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EPT
