TL Mafia L

On January 13 2012 17:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


its a good way of saying "look at me" however to label bm with an alignment of townie already when bm hadnt posted is sketchy as hell.

and yes I have time for this game barring any of the "oh jesus someone died/got super sick/huge rl issue". As for hanging foolishness, he would have to continue being super wtf as his first few posts have screamed.

I will also if it is something people want update the thread with my work schedule so people have a general idea of when I will and won't be around the thread tommorrow/saturday when it is posted.

On January 14 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote:


No, your questions are dumb.

On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.

On January 14 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC: Well, obviously you're no GF this game, because you claimed a confirmable role. Unless I'm mistaken, scum can't be mason AND GF, yes? DT checks will be accurate on you...so there's that. Confirming your alignment, in my opinion, should be paramount because I find it EXTREMELY likely that you would have elected to be mason on the scum team (for reasons that should be obvious to you and several others.)

What's your plan on confirming your role? Are you going to out who you've masoned with? Are you going to let them do it at their own pace?

On January 14 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
1) That's obviously bullshit. The chances to win lottery aren't 50% because you either win or you don't... but I see what you want to tell us

2) why?

3) no it's not. You're masoning someone. That someone is going to tell us if you masoned him. If you are a mafia you could tell us you masoned a mafiabuddy and of course your buddy will tell everyone you pm'ed him.

4) I don't realy care about what's going to happen with discussion later on if whatever might happen. I want to get a town mayor right now and for that reason I'd much rather see things tell give me something on your alignment than something that might or might not improve future-world

5) I'm pretty sure mafia will have to deal with you no matter what. That is if you're town. It's not like mafia is going not kill you because they think you might be a green instead of a blue and therefor you're no threat to them.

On January 14 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire.
If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade.

On January 14 2012 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Agh should have proof read that, I have another point for why BC's claim is protown. It forces discussion of the issue and it gives us something to talk about on day 1 instead of just discussing the usual things which often lead nowhere. As scum, the status quo of talking in circles day 1 is great, BC's claim interupts that though and suddenly puts people (especially scum) on the spot to talk about an issue that is not normally present day 1.

On January 14 2012 05:33 Kurumi wrote:
Have You been to the new Sherlock Holmes? It's good. Anyway, Meapak's reasoning sounds reasonable and I feel stupid for not getting such basic thing.
BC, do You think You'd be dead if not elected into office today?

On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote:

I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really.

On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.

On January 14 2012 07:01 Liquid`Sheth wrote:



They haven't stated their activity will be waning. No just switching to lynching Cir wouldn't cause me to switch my vote.

On January 14 2012 05:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

Yes and no. The townie doesn't have to worry about looking pro-town at any point in time, so conversations are very natural. The scum should have problems appearing townie to both the thread and the masoned person.
LotR mafia, Radfield was this sort of scum mason, and he chose Sandroba. We didn't get to talk to Radfield all day, because he had to explain his every action to some level of detail in his conversation with Sandroba.
And that's discluding the scenario where a townie masons a scum and forces him into speech.

If we mass claim masons while making them useless, they essentially become VT's, so the mafia have higher chances of hitting other blues.
Intense scrutiny is better all around. Play smart and masons are a very pro-town force.



I don't know if there's anything to make of this, but I feel like it was correcting.
No mafia have roles until they need them, so the GF will not be elected.

On January 13 2012 14:36 Foolishness wrote:


This is my official campaign post!

It is all very simple! No, I am not running for office. My campaign is based around voting for the one and only Bill Murray!

Let's face it, there are many people (L) who are going to run on the basis of lynching Bill Murray. Do we want to make such a rash decision this early in the game? Time has shown that such policy lynches are just a distraction from our true purpose of scum hunting. In order to save Bill Murray from such an easy day 1 lynch, I propose we save him by putting him in office.

Now before you go on making propositions that I have just smoked a pound of weed, consider the situation our beloved Bill Murray is in. As his first game back, we know for sure he's going to be top notch. This is his chance to prove to the old members that he's changed and proved to the new members that he's a respectable player. Thus we can expect him to bust out his A+ game. He knows that if he nails a few mafia this game he'll have turned from village idiot into village hottie.

Who would you rather have in office? Someone like Bill Murray who is probably spending 14 hours a day figuring out who is mafia or someone like kitaman27 or bumatlarge who will just put forth the same normal effort we'd expect from an elected official? Bill Murray is the real deal, and we know he'll be the real deal. Who knows how much effort Cyber_Cheese really wants to put in this game. Definitely not as much as Bill Murray will!

A vote for Bill Murray is a vote for the town!

Now what if our esteemed actor turns out to be mafia? Don't worry, as a proven scumhunter, I will dedicate enormous amounts of my time to making sure Bill Murray is indeed town. And he has a lot of games under his belt for comparison. Of course I will also be doing my usual scumhunting, so do not fret. But we can be sure that Bill Murray will be posting frequently (hopefully not too much) and will be active in his duties, especially given what I've said above. Is kitaman only going to make 2 posts a day if he gets elected in? Maybe. Will Bill Murray? No of course not. And we all know that the more someone posts the more likely their true colors show. If Bill Murray turns out to be mafia it shouldn't be long before it becomes obvious. If he's not, we got an easily confirmed innocent in office who at the very least will make the entire mafia team facepalm. And a mafia team with their palms on their faces will be unable to type.


You can make the right choice! Vote Bill Murray!
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 17 2012 11:19 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Hey look who decided to show up!

Does it matter when I call people out? The entire list I made from a few posts ago was composed of people I had ignored from the start of the game. Is there a set time when I'm allowed to call people out?

And if by "choosing to ignore a lynch candidate who is under attack from arguably the 2 best scumhunters in this game" you mean sandroba than I don't have much faith in "the 2 best scumhunters."

On January 17 2012 11:42 Bill Murray wrote:
2 people who are masons are mafia together
the sandroba lynch gives us a lot of information

On January 17 2012 11:42 Bill Murray wrote:
2 people who are masons are mafia together
the sandroba lynch gives us a lot of information

On January 17 2012 11:54 VisceraEyes wrote:


BM can you clarify this? What do you mean by the bolded statement?

On January 17 2012 10:07 Bill Murray wrote:
BC is mafia
I am voting BC
I have been masoned by 2 people, NONE OF THEM ARE OPZ OR BC

On January 17 2012 12:08 bumatlarge wrote:


lol because you still might be scum I'm keeping my bill murray filter close at hand.

On January 17 2012 12:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Not only hilariously bad, but given the nature of his previous posts, wouldn't you say it feels, Off? As in he had help? I could be reaching at straws here but it feels different than his previous posts.

Almost done catching up on the thread.

Anyone discussing currently to lynch protrac or sandroba, quit it. At the moment the two of them have done far more pro town behaviour this game than most of you. The case of roba is retarded beyond belief and in my head is being tunneled by people massively attempting to bury all content posted on both macpo and ggq. This could also refer to king james as he was called out early into the day.

will finish catching up in a few and make more comprehensive posts.

On January 14 2012 11:13 bumatlarge wrote:


EBWOP: Forgive this post, I got angry. If you really think I'd play this game exactly the way I would play insane mafia 2 where I was the police chief and the mayor, and you think someone here would have done a better job in the same position, then fine.

I'm opting out of the race. I'm clearly not meant to be mayor on TL ever again.

That said, Slardar, the strength of the mayor is how much ressure is put on them by deciding the lynch. Scum can run bullshit campaigns if all they need to live up to is having +3 voting power and night protection. Scum mayor's get massive amounts of flak very quickly because it becomes apparent rather quickly that they don't have town's best interest.

On January 14 2012 11:46 Protactinium wrote:
Ah an interesting roleclaim. However, there is much more to this than people are getting at.

The PM debate is an old one. Everyone has their opinion on whether it is town or mafia favored, and even through out-of-game debates, this is a highly controversial topic. If it can' be solved out of game, there's absolutely no way we are going to come up with a consensus in game. BC defends his claim by saying that getting everyone to contribute on this polarizing topic will help us get early reads on players. But if we can't agree on anything out of game, you won't really be able to say that someone saying "PMs good!" or "PMs bad!" will tell us anything about their alignment. Anyone can pretty much say whatever they like since they are under no obligation or pressure to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue.

While it is debatable whether PMs are "good" or "bad" for town, it shouldn't be too controversial to say that PMs are elitist. They inherently favor good players who can make use of the extra channel of communication. When you are talking to someone in PMs, always keep in mind what you think the other person wants from you. Are they trying to convince you of a certain point of view? Are they trying to get you to claim? As long as you can keep in mind that the PM initiator may be attempting to manipulate you and don't give away information loosely, PMs really aren't that scary.

What exactly has BC been discussing? Primarily, he has divided his attention between defending his claim, responding to attacks on the potnetial that he is red, and asking for "discussion" while pushing a particularly biased point of view. More clearly stated, he proposes a seemingly open-ended question, and answers it himself to make it appear like there was a town consensus behind it.

If you look at the thread, the only real contribution to the discussion that DOESN'T come from BC is sandroba's suggestion that all the masons roleclaim. And notice BC's bias when discussing the topic. In almost all his posts, BC paints PMs in a bad light. He only seriously acknowledges that town masons have the potential to catch scum, but in the same post, quickly says that "its harder than you think":



But lets look at a section of what BC has to say a bout PMs in his guide "TL Town Breakdown/Analysis":



Quite a contradictory opinion from what he states in game. The essence of BC's out of game stance is that: "PMs are like playing with fire. Could be insanely awesome if used correctly, but could burn you if you don't. If you don't feel comfortable, don't use them". This is quite a stark contrast to his position in this game, where he seriously downplays the usefulness of town PMs, and does a bit of fear mongering in emphasizing how the mafia can screw you over with PMs. Is it possible that BC has changed his stance? I doubt it, but it certainly is possible. So lets dig deeper here.

How is BC pushing his opinion? He does it subtly, and attempts to dissociate it from his personal point of view. In the beginning of his campaign to discuss masons, BC heavily uses the word "discuss" or "discussion", asks how "we as a whole" want to deal with masons, emphasizes that this is a discussion everyone should be weighing in on, and attempts to get the community involved in the discussion. He doesn't outright present his personal point of view, and frames the discussion so that it appears free and open-ended. But pretty much injects his own opinion into the discussion whenver possible.

His initial point is that mafia masons are dangerous and that town needs to have a plan to deal with that.
When asked for an example of PMs in action, BC drags in an example where he manipulated VE to do pro-mafia actions in just 1-2 PMs. (Reinforcing his stance on "PMs are scary")
When asked behind why he thinks a mass claim will interfere with the mafia masons, he proposes in the hypothetical that if town agrees to not use PMs, then it shuts down mafia masons.
A few posts later, he reemphasizes that "by making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion." While this is fine and dandy, really he is the one calling the shots here.
When Cyber_Cheese suggests that we let masons use their discretion and suggests that smart town masons could cause the mafia masons to backfire, BC counters with "Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone", subtly pushing his opinion that PMs should be shunned.

When asked about his opinion on a mason claim, he says he's fine with it, but takes the opportunity to inject more of his "ignore all PMs" idea into the conversation (notice that nobody else has been saying "lets ignore PMs").

BC is pushing the anti-PM agenda, in a way that is quite subtle. He constantly brings in reference to "the town needs to decide", or "this is a very important discussion that everyone needs to weigh in on", while he is really the one dominating the conversation. In other words, he is injecting his mafia bias into the discussion while attempting to pass it off as a town discussion or collective town decision.

Here's something BC didn't tell you. As he has told me in the past (out of game): "keep in mind as red i rarely pm", and "my heavy pm use is town play".

Now what about the "spotlight factor" brought up by Meapak? BC putting himself in the spotlight is nothing unusual, both for his mafia and town play. If you've read past games, think of BC's style as much the same as Ace's. As stated above, red BC doesn't use a PM heavy style. He uses a style that focuses on thread control, shutting down serious opposition through arguments and generally trashing the thread. BC claiming mason does not give him any +town points in my book. The general heuristic of "mafia want to avoid the spotlight" doesn't apply to BC, who is an experienced mafia player and has proven that he is well capable of taking the spotlight as red.

So what is the scenario for BC being red and pushing his mason claim? BC is in fact red, and can use the mason power (chooses it for himself early in the day). As a town mason would, BC picks a mason target and starts talking to them. Once he gets the town to agree to ban masons, he is off the hook, and doesn't have to worry about PMs anymore. More specifically, he doesn't have to worry about town PMs. Like stated before, mafia BC plays a powerhouse thread control style. By banning PMs, BC doesn't lose out on much (he admits he isn't a heavy PM user), and nerfs Foolishness, sandroba, and my abilities to play a PM centric game (which we are known for). And that's what is the difference between this game and XLII (the game he refers to when he says he dominates with only 1-2 PMs). Foolishness and I are playing in this game, and are real threats. BC wants to shut down PMs before it starts, and he doesn't have to give up much information or lie at all in order to do it.

Furthermore, he has not followed up on his campaign promise: "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better)."

Ok, so maybe he called out Foolishness yesterday, but where is the scumhunting today? Its non-existent, because BC is too busy derailing the thread with mason discussions instead of scumhunting.

What is even more interesting is the timing of his initial claim post. It comes an hourish after my second post against Ciryandor, which conveniently most people except for sandroba and sheth have ignored.

1. BloodyC0bbler derailed today's discussion onto the irrelevant, highly controversial, and unsolvable PM debate.
2. Because the community is split over the PM debate, discussing it tells us nothing about alignment even if people contribute to the discussion. In other words, BC is overexaggerating the importance of this discussion.
3. BloodyC0bbler is masking his intentions and his clear anti-PM agenda, which is inconsistent with his previous (out of game) stance on PMs).
4. BloodyC0bbler is trying to frame the discussion as an open discussion, when he is clearly injecting his personal bias.
5. BloodyC0bbler's actions are completely consistent with his mafia style, which is to spread chaos and control the thread atmoshere and discussion.
6. BloodyC0bbler's actions are not consistent with his campaign promise to analyze and call out people. He has done none of that today

BloodyC0bbler is mafia. If you vote for me I will lynch him.

On December 22 2011 10:38 kitaman27 wrote:


I'm not sure. I'm leaning scum on GM and uncertain/null on LSB. It's not that I want to split the lynch, but I have to push for the guy that I think is more likely to flip scum. Would you be willing to vote GM instead of LSB if the votes were available?

On January 13 2012 14:56 Protactinium wrote:


I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign.

On January 21 2012 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.

On January 21 2012 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.

On January 21 2012 22:51 rgTheSchworz wrote:

I'm not asking you to jail hiro, I'm asking hiro to claim being jailed regardless of your choice this night.
This is to assure we're lynching you, scum.
You have escaped lynching yesterday by BS-ing us.I think that's unfair.

Stop bending what i say, I believed protact was bussing, I was not 100% sure. Unlikely, now that L has flipped red.

On January 24 2012 00:53 Nisani201 wrote:

Erm, what? BC is mayor. You couldn't kill him even if you wanted to.

On January 23 2012 22:54 Bill Murray wrote:
If I was mafia, I would have substituted both bodyguards, and killed BC
Is BC dead? No. Because I can't kill anyone.

On January 24 2012 14:46 flamewheel wrote:
Also VE, KJ, wherebugsgo for Mafia MVP.

On January 24 2012 15:03 p4NDemik wrote:

hahahaha no kidding. I put so much effort into all that night night 2 analysis and mafia sat back, lurked, and got so drunk they got mod-killed. Now if I ever get mafia in the future I have to live up to this ... fml