TL Mafia XLIII - Page 2

On August 02 2011 07:32 Drazerk wrote:


While a good thread presence is needed I still think you can do most of the legwork in IRC / PM. My only issue will be if people just vote for no reason and say - IRC discussion. If your going to vote / spout accusations you make all your posts clear in thread and don't use PMs as an easy method to bandwagon.

Anyone who is scared of PMing / joining in IRC discussion should be put under the spot light it is actually one of our greatest tools as town and avoiding them gives scum a huge advantage.

Also I agree with Sand's plan. The sooner we have confirmed town players the better.

On August 02 2011 08:41 Drazerk wrote:
##Vote RedFF

Opposing sand's plan with no real reasons while defending himself like a mad man in IRC when he has no real reason to defend himself yet.

On August 03 2011 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
At the moment I am not feeling either Varp lynch or the lucidity lynch. Factor in both at the moment are being more active than most players in the game, I would be more inclined to at least let them live another cycle. I however don't like when players come in to hop on bandwagons or attempt to start them then vanish. It irks me completely. As such, until Drazerk comes back into the thread to at least play / explain his inactivity I suggest we move our lynch to him.

I would rather lynch someone appearing scummy / useless than someone who is being linked as scummy and is active. Their activity will help clear / damn them whereas inactivity doesn't give us dick all to work with.

On August 04 2011 03:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
shinbi had no scum leanings, then in 10 hours without posting serious reasons he sheeps onto something I say to try and force a bandwagon on a player? Not only that, rather than push said bandwagon with any conviction, he makes his move then vanishes from the thread completely since.

As such, until he reappears to explain his actions I am throwing my vote there.

vote jeejee

On August 04 2011 07:04 Lucidity wrote:
!@#$

On August 04 2011 07:21 ghrur wrote:


Don't be a pessimist. I support the shooting of JeeJee

On August 04 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

BC is the mafia maybe curu

On August 02 2011 08:50 ghrur wrote:
Okay, so we weight the benefits of confirmed townie vs possibly hitting a townie.
Confirmed townie is definitely better. Have you heard how Ace talked about Masons in that Mafias #1 targets thread? It's because they're confirmed so easily. A confirmed townie is valuable, and that's just 1 person less to shoot at.

Furthermore, even hitting a townie can give us a lot of information for our first official lynch. It also gives us new information to re-evaluate our thoughts.

If he dies because mafia stacks, all the better. This means, if we miss, we killed 1 extra townie day 1, but also saved 1 extra townie night 1. Pretty even. If the Day Vig doesn't shoot, there is a chance that he gets sniped night 1, especially with all the talk about him.

I think it's beneficial to have him shoot. The problem is... is there a Day Vig? o.O

On August 02 2011 09:08 ghrur wrote:


Yup, and if Mafia shoots player Y, and player Y dies, then clearly the medic isn't a medic but is mafia. :/ So if mafia tries to be medic, it effectively hurts them.

On August 03 2011 17:35 ghrur wrote:


Yeah, I do. I played with Drazerk AA and he acted the same way. If I recall, it was basically a "Lynch Wiggles" post and then afk.

I'm down for either varpulis or Kenpachi.
I don't get why sandroba's supposed to have seemed town. I mean, looking back on the plan, I realize it's incredibly bad.
and this post by sandroba

docH, how is the simple fact that it's no longer day1 is going to make lynches more acurate down the line? If we can speed up the process and basically skip night 1 how is it possibly bad for town?

What? He knows better than this. So the plan basically becomes let's out the dayvig and give mafia a free blue. :/

On August 04 2011 07:21 ghrur wrote:


Don't be a pessimist. I support the shooting of JeeJee

On August 04 2011 08:19 ghrur wrote:
Redff:
Yes, I understand lynching for information was bad. I was making the point that losing 3 townies is losing 3 townies until I realized day-vigis get 2 shots so we still effectively lose a vigi, and later shots are more accurate. Why did I change positions? I argued with DrH about this in Mafia IRC and reconsidered my position.


Neither was I... I was stating how fake-claims by mafia would hurt them under the plan... Like, do you not understand that that was a continuation of thought from what Curu said? >_>

Also, you're tunneling by the third "point." Did you not read "looking back?" I re-evaluated my position. Would you like to hear why I realize it's a bad plan?
A. It lures out a confirmed townie and ends up with him getting shot.
B. We lose a vigi shot early with the opportunity cost of getting a better shot later on.
C. Vigis get 2 shots, so even if Dayvig dies, it's not a confirmed townie that dies, but a confirmed blue.
D. Instead of ending up with 3 greens dead if mafia stacks, we end up with 2 greens dead and 1 blue dead. Much worse.
So what does this effectively do? Lure out a blue for mafia to kill! Why would Sandroba suggest such a plan then! Why was I stupid enough to support it? Because I was stupid.

I never mentioned JeeJee before... except in IRC and talking about it to TAA. Guess what? I also find Munk-E scummy but I've never mentioned him before in thread either. I don't post everything I think.

On August 02 2011 08:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
*yawn* So out of drH and redff there is a clear difference between the two of them. Both are arguing against this plan. First of all, a lot of drH's concerns are legit. A lot of questions based around this plan that makes it "solid" received not so good responses from the mods. IE not exploitable.

I see the advantages of the plan, and if we could actually think of a target for day 1 to day vig it would be fine, however. This is a game with 4 mafia, 1 gf and 1 rber in the mix most likely. The next issue is a simple bit of knowledge of qatol and ver helped balance the game. Very few KP will be in this game. Counting on a day vig for all our hopes seems...shortsighted. If we have one, awesome, however we should have 2 kp at most given the setup. 1 med and 1 vet, or 2 vets, would be a likely blue setup for night survival and 1 dt if we are lucky. As this is speculation based on how to not make a game horribly OP for town I would guess no day kp as that would make town confirmable.

However, if this plan can be made to work then thats fine and good. My issue now stems from DrH and redFF. DrH has been arguing against it in thread. He has been on the bad side of this sort of situation before, and I can see where he might have learned from that. I have no issues with him doing so primarily because he is doing it here, in thread. Redff however has been arguing this on irc. If he was so sure of his stance he should have taken it here in thread. Massive FoS by excluding info from thread.

On August 04 2011 09:21 Curu wrote:
I'd prefer the Vig on JeeJee/Munk-E and the DT on BC. Medic on Mig.

On August 04 2011 09:33 Barundar wrote:

Mig was the one starting the case on varpulis, posting the initial analysis and pressuring him through the day. I consider ON and DrH town as well though. As a side note Trotske is most likely town based on Varpulis' FoS.

I wouldn't DT check JeeJee or BC, if mafia they are most likely to be the godfather.

He seemed to be doing a post-by-post style analysis (which btw, is bad)

On August 04 2011 11:37 ghrur wrote:


Idk what BC's up to to be honest.