Pick Their Power Mafia 2 - Page 2

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 05:35 GMT

#401

Why would a special win con be in there to kill Mafia though? Like you win by killing all Mafia BUT make sure you kill this Mafia too. Unless ON had to personally kill Jackal to win.

I still think he's a 3rd Party though, so unless something better comes up I'm all for lynching him.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 05:41 GMT

#405

@Wiggles

It has nothing to do with randomization unless two people decided to make their roles together. dec stated he doesn't want any role organization plans or w/e so I think it's most certainly dec's creation. Then again I don't understand how they are exactly identical roles and the decision to place Hallows around, since Jackal claimed he has a Mason-type role and that was what ON's was too. The possibilities I see are:

1) Two people decided they wanted to put Harry/Voldy in the game and collaborated together to do so (against dec's urging not to)
2) Dec created two roles for people by himself (???)
3) Dec took two roles that were Mason roles and decided to add onto them himself

I highly, highly doubt someone just decided to put it into their role to kill Harry Potter as he can't even know Harry Potter would be in the game. I'm almost certain this is dec's doing, and if so then what I am saying makes sense.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 05:43 GMT

#407

lol, chaos13 knows full well the frustrations of untrustworthy flips from WaW2 <3.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 05:46 GMT

#409

Actually lemme ask the man himself:

No picking plans
I don't want this game to revolve around a super pre-defined picking strategy. If you want to ask for advice in the thread thats fine, but ultimately pick roles that you think would lead to a fun, interesting game.

This was in your OP, does this mean you expressly forbid people to collaborate together to make their roles?

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 06:02 GMT

#415

Dec stated people who failed to create roles were going to be modkilled though. And, judging from my own role, people who made up roles in five minutes are not all that uncommon

.

I don't see what Wiggles's issue is, can you clarify that for me Wiggles? What I said about the Hallows makes sense IMO since pure randomization really defeats the purpose of having the Hallows game sine you'd ensure they'd never be given away if they randomized into the hands of Mafia or malicious 3rd Party.

Win conditions are surely not made up by the players themselves so I don't think dec would have put in an extra win condition for Voldy then made it a redundant one.

@Foolishness
It's already generating discussion. What behavior do we have to go off of atm?

@Tackster
I didn't say a thing about Jackal's claim being well founded. Can you point out to me where I ever said Jackal's claim is legit and I don't want to lynch him? All I said was I think he's 3rd Party rather than Mafia but that makes a good lynch too.

And did you even bother to read OriginalName's role PM? He chooses people to Mason that changes each day, he doesn't start the game Masoned with a set someone.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 06:06 GMT

#417

And if you mean where I believed his role abilities, what are the chances that he claims some power then Voldemort flips with the exact same power? He's almost certainly telling the truth about his Mason power, and that's easily confirmable anyways.

As for the thing about Voldemort, I think my post most clearly pointed out that I doubt it's legit because it doesn't make sense for any hint at player alignment to be in a role PM.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 06:16 GMT

#420

Where the hell did I say Potter is red? I said it doesn't make sense for him to be Mafia if ON had a special win condition, he's probably 3rd (leaning very much here) or Town.

I don't think you've read my posts at all because this:

Or that Jackal is red because he lied about voldy 'hiding in town' yet when potter says he need to kill voldy that's just flavour text and he's really a mason.

Makes no sense to me at all.

Why do I have no reason to suspect Potter is non-green if he's a Mason? He gets to CHOOSE one person to Mason each cycle and then picks a new one after, this is no way shape or form any indication of green-ness.

I'm so confused about what you are trying to say.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 06:30 GMT

#422

I think your confusion comes from the definition of Mason. By Mason I mean can chat with them, not a Cult-style alignment changing. Basically I am saying Jackal can do the same thing ON could.
Clear?

I also did not assume Voldy's role PM to kill Harry was flavour. I said it might be, and if isn't then it doesn't make sense for Harry to be Mafia because that's a completely redundant win condition.
Clear?

I did not say it's weird for them to be the same alignment. I said it'd be weird of them to be Town-Mafia, and ON is certainly Town. I said it's possible they're both Town. I think Jackal is a 3rd because I think that he made up part of his role PM cause it didn't make sense to have anything hinting at alignment in his PM.
Clear?

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 06:44 GMT

#426

Actually now that I think more about it, it doesn't make sense for Jackal to be a hostile 3rd either since that would still make the ON win condition redundant as well.

Anyways let's just discontinue this train of thought because it hinges on ON having a separate win condition (we have no way to know) and that there would be no redundancy in win conditions (we have no way to know).

I understand what you're saying now Tackster but the reason I think Jackal's is a lie is because having an indication of alignment in a role PM is really nonsensical. Flavour is supposed to be flavour, having a straight up thing about someone else's alignment in your role PM actually affects the game. Again we have no way to verify whether ON's thing was flavour or an actual win condition because his death didn't reveal that.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 07:02 GMT

#429

At least I'm not doing it with tunneling you this time. At least not yet <3.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 20:43 GMT

#691

STOP DROP AND ROLL.

DropBear's version is clearly not right (not saying he's lying, just that it was modified by host). Tackster copied supersoft's role but we didn't get any PM when Tackster killed YM. It makes no sense for supersoft to be Mafia because if he was, he would just claim that yes he did kill YM and could provide his reasoning for it. Tackster goes safe, supersoft probably goes safe too, he had no reason to shoot Tackster if he was Mafia. If he's a 3rd then putting an alignment check in his hands, who gives a crap?

BloodyCobbler, WHY ARE YOU ARGUING AGAINST AN ALIGNMENT CHECK? The only people this hurts are Mafia and 3rd Parties. Why does Town care if they get checked and it reveals Town? Because it makes them confirmed Town so they must die? LOOOOOL. So not having confirmed Towns is somehow better than having confirmed Towns? It's not like confirming someone gives Mafia an extra KP that they can use just to kill that person. And yes, we DO control the power because we pick who quotes supersoft. Refuse and you get lynched and the next suspect quotes him, it doesn't create a clusterfuck in any way. People are not volunteering to be checked, we are making them get checked. I don't see any way you can reasonably not want to have a free alignment check if you are Town.

ALSO:

Other Rules
No VI type roles. No post restrictions. These might seem amausing but are just irritating to deal with. Role that rely on randomness or coin tosses should be avoided if possible, but aren't banned.

dec, does this mean there are no natural post restrictions in this game? Natural as in not-penalty

Let's look at all the people flying under the radar too under disguise of this shitstorm and not contributing any opinions.

Nisani201
Drazerk
Mr. Wiggles
ketomai
Foolishness - actually here but being useless
Mig
Lanaia

What are your thoughts about recent events?

##Vote: BloodyC0bbler

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 20:52 GMT

#699

On July 26 2011 05:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 26 2011 05:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

On July 26 2011 05:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On July 26 2011 05:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

On July 26 2011 04:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On July 26 2011 04:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So you're saying not to use a day DT check on a potential lynch target, on the off-chance that he might be an SK and get town-cred? Also, how exactly do we confirm him besides killing him? Sounds like rather bad reasoning, to me.

use a dt check on SS first. Don't trust someone whos suspect to give real feedback. Make him earn his damn check. You do not reward roleclaimers ffs.

How contradictory. You think that having SS use his rolecheck is rewarding him (not town, just him) for roleclaiming, but then say we should wait for another DT to check supersoft to confirm him as town or not. Here's how that fails:

-Framers
-Fake DT claim to take out Day DT
-Continual Role block after today on SS
-Having to have an actual DT claim to confirm him

So, you don't want to reward roleclaimers, but then want another DT to claim to confirm a known DT, who's alignment is unknown? That makes no sense at all.

The best thing to do, is to use his check, and have him announce his result to town. The catch is we don't act just based on his check. We can check a lynch candidate if we want, but that gets dangerous if he's scum, though another 1-1 trade wouldn't be that bad. The other thing we do is check someone suspicious, who isn't necessarily getting lynched today and having him announce his check, and just leave it until we can confirm him. Then if he gets popped, we know all his checks and results, and if we can act on them, and if he gets confirmed another way, well we know all his results too.

I'd actually suggest checking you or DB, and then leaving it for now.

As well, why would we check people asking to be checked, and why would anyone be dumb enough to ask for a DT check on them without already being suspicious anyways? If they're asking to be checked, they're town or a covered role. Town wouldn't want to waste a DT check on themselves, as compared to suspicious people. Use the tool to hunt mafia, not to confirm town. An innocent check doesn't prove innocence, but the only way we're getting a red check back at this point is millers or a day-framer. Day 1 has the least chance of anything interfering with the check, and is the best time to use it. I'd rather have 1 check in, than have none and SS gets shot tonight.

Check the bolded part. In almost every case of someone asking or begging for a dt check they are town or covered role. Most people do this to confirm themselves and thus starting a blue circle that can rofl stomp mafia. It is very common practice for people to want to be cleared as to move through a game with 0 harassment from anyone. No mafia would willingly throw himself up for a dt check as it would screw him in the end. You say no townie would want it used on them, but that would again, leave you a pool of 0 people to check. you are then down to the idea of "we want you checked you let yourself get checked or lynched" which is a horrible way to play.

Seriously, you all are talking about role use being the huge factor in catching people. I now say, everyone go back read pick your power 3 and realize playing lets analyze roles, or someones role means they are legit, etc.... and realize roles do not say shit about the players alignment. Who cares if SS's check is an alignment check if you don't know his alignment. Have a watcher/tracker check him. If he visits anyone at night at this point in time he is mafia. have a dt check him. Dt's could breadcrumb results, or the like. Seriously, before a plan is proposed you sort it out, you make it ideal, you account for multiple situations. So far the only situation proposed by you lot is SS is likely town for shooting a red. Likely town does not mean town.

What? So, instead of using a check, and just leaving it, until we have a second DT out themselves or breadcrumb and die, you're saying never use the check? Did I understand that correctly? Please tell me how what you're trying to say is optimal play. How is not having a check better than having one?

The only situation proposed by you, is that we don't use the check at all. That's asking a claimed and outed DT to not check people or reveal his checks, until another DT checks him. In what world does that make sense?

Ask yourself how you would play this out in a normal game. If a DT claimed, would you ask him to not check anyone until another DT checked him and claimed it? That sounds really dumb to me.

In a normal game, on day 1, if someone claimed dt and said x was red, I would kill the dt first. Every time.

In a setup where mafia, third parties, or town can be a dt, I will never trust the claimant ever on day 1. Nor should anyone else.

Difference in a normal game scenario, DT is willingly outing himself to buy Town cred. supersoft was forced out and as I explained in my above post there's very little chance he's Mafia unless he is actively trying to hurt his team.

If he's a 3rd Party then he has no reason to lie about his alignment checks anyways, since if he lies we kill him.

You're arguing about relying on behavior analysis and not powers to find scum and it's true but in a game where everyone is a friggin blue role it'd be absurd to ignore powers especially one as heavily Pro Town as a DT alignment check.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 20:55 GMT

#705

On July 26 2011 05:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, what are you talking about Curu, are you posting without reading the thread completely? I'm embroiled in an argument with BC about whether to use the DT check or not (We should), and I called out DB for being mafia for not suffering a penalty for revealing SS' role. As well, lynching Jackal just because of his role is incredibly dumb.

Sorry bra, my mistake <3.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:15 GMT

#724

@BC
It's a Pro Town power because it massively helps Town and very minimally hurts it. We are not saying he's very likely/confirmed Town because of his power. We are saying it because:

It makes no sense for supersoft to be Mafia because if he was, he would just claim that yes he did kill YM and could provide his reasoning for it. Tackster goes safe, supersoft probably goes safe too, he had no reason to shoot Tackster if he was Mafia. If he's a 3rd then putting an alignment check in his hands, who gives a crap?

You yourself agreed he is likely Town (but that it doesn't mean confirmed Town, which is right). Well, why so vehement against a likely Town player using his free DT power and giving us information? On the offchance that he's going to lie as 3rd Party (3rd Parties have no reason to lie about the alignment check, as he would get killed the instant he is caught lying) or the teeny tiny chance he's Mafia? And yes he was forced out but if he was Mafia then when forced out he would merely have just said yeah I shot YM cause I thought he was scum, my mistake sorry guys instead of willingly revealing that he wasn't the one and then shooting Tackster.

There's no reason not to use his power. I would much rather have BC checked at this point unless you guys are up for lynching him.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:18 GMT

#726

And what's your reasoning behind that Foolishness? Why Lanaia or Wiggles, what have they done that stands out to you?

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:22 GMT

#728

No, I just think BC is far scummier. Kita has asked some questions and acted suspicious, but BC is straight up here arguing against a very likely Town player using his free DT check because "he might be lying."

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:33 GMT

#742

No Mafia wants to be put into a position where they have to surrender any more information than they have to. Even if supersoft was Mafia, which is unlikely, having to submit himself to bussing more teammates or getting caught in lies is detrimental to him as well. You're just introducing a shitload of WIFOM too "well Mafia can't act like obvious Mafia so whoever is acting least like Mafia is probably Mafia but maybe they know that too so we can't trust that either."

We as town cannot trust his checks fully, but third party or mafia can. They get far more information from a check than we as a town do. They can fire their shots based on his checks, etc... Stacking hits is a normal strategy, they know who to rb, etc.... We are giving freebie shots to non town groups based on his checks if he is in fact town. If he is third party doesn't matter much other than it builds him credibility to live, and as red again builds credibility to live.

This is just ridiculous. Mafia gets more info from an alignment check than we do? Mafia knows everyone's alignments (in terms of Mafia vs not Mafia) anyways. How is supersoft pointing at someone and saying he is Town giving Mafia information? Herp derp, they knew that already. Unless you're somehow convinced Mafia getting 3rd Party alignments will lose the game for Town.

"If he is SK he will most likely out the reds"
Yep, that's the whole point of us wanting to use his ability. Point out reds.

If we're in a position where we can't trust his checks, ie he's Mafia, then Mafia isn't getting anything from his checks either because they know it's BS.

Mafia shooting YM pretty much shows how afraid they are of alignment checks and BC is falling right into it.

Please people, lynch BC.

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:36 GMT

#745

On July 26 2011 06:29 Foolishness wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wiggles is probably an SK. Lanaia does not (Z)

seeM to be posting with a pro-town state of mind.

What. Why do you think Wiggles is an SK?

You pointed out yourself that you don't like people who don't do behavioral analysis because they're lazy, can you enlighten us with your thoughts?

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:38 GMT

#749

You don't know if he suffered his penalty or not Wiggles. It might just be he's roleblocked for tonight, who knows.

BC, would you submit to having supersoft check you?

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

July 25 2011 21:49 GMT

#758

So you're saying it hurts Town because Mafia will use his power to kill confirmed Towns. And yet you say we can't trust him so no one he says is green is a confirmed Town. Huh. You also said earlier that Townies should be most eager to get themselves checked:

Check the bolded part. In almost every case of someone asking or begging for a dt check they are town or covered role.

I guess you don't fall into that category.

Acting scummy and Anti Town is less likely to get you killed than being confirmed Town. Hmm.

On July 26 2011 03:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

Check me and laugh. Whoever dt checks will laugh almost as hard as i cringed at my role.

You're so open to being checked here when you were in no real danger of being checked.

On July 26 2011 04:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 26 2011 04:04 syllogism wrote:

On July 26 2011 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On July 26 2011 03:56 redFF wrote:

On July 26 2011 00:39 DropBear wrote:
Ok I may as well cop the penalty. Mafia now knows who shot youngminii and all his abilities so I have to come out and save him now. I made the Tim Roth role.

Supersoft is Tim Roth. He only gets one kill. His kill causes his alignment and role abilities to be PMd to everyone of the opposite alignment to him. I didn't get that PM so supersoft is now 100% confirmed to be town.

His other ability is an alignment check, which activates if you get into a 3 each quote convo with him i.e. you post, he quotes, you quote the quote until there is 3 each.

I would suggest forcing people to quote him. Not everyone at once though as it would shit up the thread something shocking.

What was your penalty? Good job Supersoft,

I didn't get a pm telling me tackster's alignment, was that a mistake?

I'm still weary of Jackal. Behaviourally i'm not noticing anything that scummy though. I'm tired of Kurumi getting away from doing jack-shit every game and doing no analysis and just trolling so i'm voting him until something better comes up.

kita-iirc he played this way early on in the first ptp and was town and a lot of people(mainly mafia) jumped on him for it to get an easy lynch, I suggest someone starts quoting supersoft though. i will do it if necesssary.

I suggest no one quotes supersoft and no one votes for kurumi. Based on how Kurumi is playing, his power seems to require votes instead of fistbumps like palmar from last ptp. Supersoft's power we are told operates via quote levels. how about we don't give two people access to their powers? How about we kill jackal or, each player with an item asks if they can destroy it (as well harry breaks the wand, gets rid of the stone and only keeps the cloak in the books).

Letting people run loose with powers when we have no actual confirmed alignment of them is just a bad move. Limit people from acting until they are verified.

Supersoft just killed mafia and another person confirmed his role. Unless you think this is some absurd gambit by mafia and they are all 3 (supersoft,dropbear,tackster) red, how can you possibly argue against supersoft using his alignment checks? Is this some posting restriction because that makes little sense

Super soft is likely not red as he killed a red, you are correct.

Confirm that supersoft is likely not red yet unwilling to let him use his check for some farfetched reasons.

We're lynching BC today folks.

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