World at War 2 Mafia - Page 35

On July 06 2011 09:44 sandroba wrote:
Okay, I'm going to try to explain this once more, very slowly.
When balancing a game the host takes into consideration the number of night kills by mafia compared to the number of people playing the game. The more lynches we have per day the less kill mafia has. That's easy and simple, anyone refusing to see this should take a step back and think it through again. If we push this to the limit we have all lynches in one day and no mafia night kills. With most players in the game being town aligned you can see how it's extremelly dificult for mafia to win.
This game has a deterrent to that though, which is the conspirator. It prevents us from simply nuking all players and having infinite "lynches" per day. Also there is the time constraint, each day having 48hrs prevents us from discussing and agreeing on multiple targets per day.
Nevertheless it IS extremelly advantageous to town to lynch more than one player per day, and making it 2 per day is a conservative way to prevent conspirator from winning and leaving enough time for discussion. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. "Mafia can influence the lynch and kill more town players per day". Yes they can, but they also have COMPLETE control over their night kills and the lynch is our main weapon to defeat mafia. It really comes to skill from town as a whole vs skill from mafia when determining the outcome of a lynch, but it tends to favor town as town always has more players.

With that out of the way let me explain to all of you why Palmar is NOT town-aligned this game:

If you have not followed the discussion from when I the plan initially came up till now I sugest you do so.
When I first proposed my plan, palmar said it was terrible and he wanted "individual thinking" from town. First let me say that Scum absolutelly does not want us to use the plan. It fucks them in many ways and it fucks them hard. So what's scum behaviour in that scenario? They want to dismiss it, but they want to do so without drawing uneeded suspicion onto them. It would be foolish for them to start attacking the plan hard before it even gets momentum. And that's exactly what palmar does:



Bear in mind that Palmar claimed later to have 0 nukes. He wants independent though from "pros and great analystis" while putting blind faith on their aligment. Needless to say that has lead to disaster in all previous games using a similar setup.
Also we still have blue roles who have night actions (the equivalent of vigs/medics/dts, we did in previous games and if we don't in this game palmar has no reason to believe that's the case), and it's completely up to them how to use them.

Lets look at this other post shall we:


In RTM where Palmar was town aligned, he strived to take leadership, took scumhunting into his own hands while trying to keep town focused (even if he was wrong about he's suspects sometimes). He refused to deposit blind faith in anyone and kept scum on their toes all game. Lets look at the results: It produced a ton of good information, which allowed players to be extremelly acurate with their blue powers and lynches and became the one of the most one sided town victories so far in this forum. We can't say it didn't work out for him, quite the oposite.

Now in this game, we not only see a complete 180 in his mentality, but also a change that's extremelly pro-mafia and anti-town, judging by not only mine, but his own standards: He doesn't want leadership and wants to trust in players that, if he was town aligned, he would have no knowledge of their aligment. That's only going to lead into dozens of nukes being fired at random and most of the hits will be townie deaths. Mafia knows who their players are so they can use their nukes/counter-nukes strategically while we cannot. That's a extremelly mafia favored field. He compares nukes to vigilante shots when everyone and their mother knows they are NOTHING simillar.
As a town this makes absolutely no sense, but as mafia it sure as hell does.

Lets move on to later in the discussion. The plan starts gaining strengh and many players start agreeing with it. When Palmar notices this he starts to opose it more vocally since mafia is absolutelly screwed if we agree on this. His arguments are that we should not trust the town circle, which is clear bullshit when everyone is allowed to vote on the targets and that players should be allowed to use independent thought. But look at this, it's not like palmar wants to take matters into his own hands and nuke scum. He has no fucking nukes (at least he claims). He wants to blindly trust other players to make their decisions on who to nuke. That's not the town aligned Palmar which we all know, which would have jumped on the opportunity of having two lynches per day and kick scum's sorry ass, by trying to lead town based on his beliefs.

All this so far 100% proves that palmar is not town aligned this game. But lets continue so you can notice Palmar change in behaviour. Suddenly I pop in the thread and say I know he's scum and have all the info I need to prove it (presented above). From this moment on Palmar gradually changes his opinion from "terrible plan" to "really decent plan" and he abandons his previous beliefs for the terrible reasoning "my previous plan does not allow role claims". As GM pointed out roles have absoulutelly no bearing on aligment, and that alone should never be enough for you to change your mind about something you were fighting so strongly against. This only makes sense as a desperate attempt by scum to remedy their complete exposure and try to hide again.
Palmar has already shown us his true colors and now is trying to back down like a misbehaved child providing weak excuses (something town palmar would never do).

PALMAR IS SCUM

##Vote: Palmar

##Dunkirk Operation