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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 09:11 GMT
#917
If your action is on a timer and you are roleblocked, do you get the notified of the roleblock immediately
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 09:19 GMT
#919
Also I assume mafia KP is updated in real time as well, meaning killing mafia right now would deprive them of their third kill
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 09:38 GMT
#921
On June 30 2011 18:17 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2011 18:11 syllogism wrote:
If your action is on a timer and you are roleblocked, do you get the notified of the roleblock immediately


lol

stop soft-claiming and just ask the hosts in pm.

That wasn't a soft claim. I was wondering why VisceraEyes wasn't roleblocked immediately. Perhaps there are two GFs, though that seems like a stupid idea in this format
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 12:51 GMT
#927
I'm convinced that Youngminii is scum. Early on he basically ignored TAA pushing Drazerk and concentrated on his case against GM and once TAA flipped DT he started bussing him and ignored reasonable arguments against the lynch despite claiming he didn't find Drazerk's posts scummy. He also didn't actively push for Drazerk lynch despite VE apparently being obviously a townie. I now realize TAA wasn't a blue snipe after all, but an attempt to save Drazerk. Him flipping DT ruined this plan.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 28 2011 15:47 youngminii wrote:
LOLWUT
That was completely unexpected, I've never played a nightless game before. I'm going to assume that it was a scum hit?
The mafia were clearly trying to blue snipe and LSB seemed as if he was creating a plan. This leads me to believe the scum misinterpreted this as a Vet (no not experienced player, I mean the actual role) trying to make a good plan/trap to catch scum. My guess? The mafia roleblocked him and killed him hoping he was a Vet or at least a blue.

If the above is true, then this is a best case scenario for us as it means no other blue role will be roleblocked today.

His understanding of the real time mechanics is bizarrely poor. He is a good player, so why is this the case? Further, you ”assumed” that was a scum hit? There was absolutely no chance at all that being a one-shot vigi hit and you know that. Seems like a scum overcompensating due to him knowing for a fact it was a scum hit. That roleblocking scenario makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


+ Show Spoiler +
On June 28 2011 16:32 youngminii wrote:
I can see what sandroba's saying, I don't fully agree but I don't fully disagree either. As for your point #4 I have actually acknowledged that as a complete fail by me, and you're actually wrong, roleblocks do in fact block the Vet's extra life, I took the time to ask RoL.

If you're going to make snide (rude) remarks about the people you are accusing, at least check your facts before blatantly throwing around 'facts'. I'm not impressed by the way you're handling yourself this game but I'm fairly certain you're not a scum.

If I was a DT and I was suspicious of GM, I would check him. I'm not going to tell you to do it though since we're operating a "do what you want" policy this game afaik.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 00:09 youngminii wrote:
i like the way you think theawesomeall

don't worry about palmar though, he's always like this
i can only think of gmarshal as the best dt candidate for now

okay i'm gonna head off now i'll be back when i wake up

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 28 2011 16:52 youngminii wrote:
It's completely situational though, say everyone on the lurker list is scummy. Then obviously the DT will check them. But what if they're not, what if there are more pressing issues at hand and you really need to check someone like you or me or GM?

This is why the threat of being kicked into the lurker list is enough, while blues should do what they feel is best.

Enough of this talk imo, I absolutely agree with TheAwesomeAll's post but there's soo many people who basically haven't posted yet either. I'm going to head out for a bit and I'll stop clogging up the thread until more people have posted.

Ciao ^o^

Early on, he seemed to think GM was a good DT check target, but was really wishy washy about it for no reason. I find it hard to believe he didn't realize by this point he would very likely be GF or town. In addition, he agrees with TAA's post about GM being suspicious, but then sort of doesn't because not enough people have posted yet? I guess ”clogging up the thread” with actual analysis isn't something that would serve your goals. He never really ended up doing any analysis despite there being an abudance of material.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 16:40 youngminii wrote:
Well okay I don't see anything wrong with lynching Drazerk now. I'll laugh my ass off if he flips non-red.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 30 2011 02:25 youngminii wrote:
To the person that said "What if he checked GM".

If you go back and read his posts he explicitly says "DT don't bother checking GM, if he's scum he's definitely GF so it would be a waste".

To which I agree. Hence Drazerk is our best target. You can argue on whether or not he checked him but it doesn't really matter, he's the best target going on from the information we have. If you don't agree then there's either something seriously wrong with you or you're scum, plain and simple.

In any case, he tunneled Drazerk pretty damn hard, I didn't agree with his opinions at all but here we are.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 13:28 youngminii wrote:
I thought I told you guys to stop this shit with sinani.

The Palmar lynch I can completely understand. He's terrible yada he likes bandwagons he just wants to kill people etc. I KNOW
This is his town play. Sure, there's a possibility that he's mafia and he's hiding behind his regular town meta (unlikely) but this is just him, you can't do anything about that. In fact, I've heard his scum play is excellent (never seen it myself), if so why would he post like a poor town?

Anyway, between hiro drazerk syllo I'm gonna go with syllo. I firmly believe that both hiro and syllo are scum at this very moment, drazerk's posts are too shallow to make a judgement out of.

For syllo, some of you are arguing that his first post about helping direct blues should relieve him as that is clearly town favoured. Wrong, go read that post again, it's a very heavily veiled post that doesn't actually help anyone. Do you really think a medic won't know that the last 6 hours of a day is unhittable? What syllo does is point this out, then says but medics shouldn't save straight away because scum will hit in the 6 hours before the last 6, but then it's up to the medics because if we tell them what to do scum will abuse it etc. etc.

Then in the next paragraph he completely nullifies everything he said by saying "But nah, you can ignore everything I said if you want". Just remember, lots of scum like to make a huge 'helpful' post at the start to appear as townie as they can. I've seen this first hand.

Every post he has made until Palmar calling him out has been extremely neutral and unhelpful to the town cause. As soon as Palmar gets to him, syllo OMGUS votes Palmar?

Yeah and there was the whole EXTREMELY WEAK hiro voting for syllo for 'pressure' and after like a one liner from syllo hiro backs off.

Best candidate, by far. Easily.

However, then he later retroactively, while bussing his teammates, agrees that DT checking GM was a bad idea after all!

Also this is when bussing begins. His justification for voting Drazerk is very strange. Previously he didn't have an opinion on Drazerk because his posts are too ”shallow” (???). Also note that suddenly the real time mechanics are completely obvious, while initially he didn't even realize mafia could kill in real time.

On June 30 2011 02:30 youngminii wrote:
No, I don't agree with his case. I had no opinion of Drazerk and I still don't, not one big enough to justify a lynch. However, when a DT dies and his last action was to tunnel a guy who shouldn't have had a case on him in the first place, coupled with his theory of Drazerk and GM working together, it logically makes sense to go after Drazerk since he felt so strongly about it.

Could he have just tunneled Drazerk without a check? Yes. But it's just as likely that he did check him, we don't know for sure.

What I'm trying to say is, Drazerk is the most logical lynch based on the information we have. You seriously want to lynch VisceraEyes for his somewhat questionable actions? It's not THAT scummy to prioritise him over the guy that the DT was gunning for.

Wow, you still don't have an opinion on Drazerk despite wanting to lynch him. By that point it had been repeatedly pointed out that the time line on TAA checking Drazerk doesn't make sense. Also saying it's just as likely that he was DT checked than not shows he either doesn't care about the game mechanics or pretends to be oblivious.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 30 2011 02:42 youngminii wrote:
lol

I said I wouldn't vote him if it was just based on the analysis against him. However, with the whole DT thing I believe his lynch would be completely justified.

@syllo, I somewhat agree and I was considering whether or not my vote on him is justified (I still think it is) and then I came across this:

Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 08:56 Drazerk wrote:
Well looks like I am dead, At least when I am dead ill flip green Proving GM is innocent. Was bound to happen as I am always day 1 lynch suspect.

When I die you will be at a disadvantage but at least you will have a Guaranteed Townie. ( Medics better defend him don't let my death be in vain )

I'm off to bed

I am sick of this "nah i'm dead anyway i'm off see ya" attitude. I've been seeing this far too often lately and I'll be more than happy to policy lynch this.

People speak of creating pro-town conditions? This is just about as anti-town as you can get. This attitude where you roll over and die is absolutely unacceptable. We have to create a town meta where this will get punished, just like lurkers getting policy lynched and what not.

tl;dr kill drazerk

With the DT check in doubt and me and chaos13 voiced our suspicions regarding him wanting to lynch Drazerk despite not having an opinion on him and thinking TAA's case against him wasn't good his hilarious weak justification for voting for him was gone, he had to backpedal a bit and find a better excuse for bussing. He still didn't bother doing any real analysis, just found one post with him martyring that had already been pointed out.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 30 2011 03:01 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2011 02:50 sandroba wrote:
Okay, half your analysis is based on other players aligment. Let me say this, if you think GM or whoever else is scum go ahead and vote for him. The fact that Drazerk defended GM says nothing. Every aligment has resons to defend town/scum (they trully believe they are town / defending teamates/ gaining town cred). They way he went about defending GM gets him town points in my book even if GM is scum.
Only the first post you quoted I agree it can be interpreted as scum behaviour, but I don't think it's soliid enough to warrant this huge quickforming bandwagon.

fuck yeah you are the towniest motherfucker in this entire thread
hi5

palmar i wish you'd just stick to one guy, other than that i've enjoyed your more recent posts

let me ask you this
if we lynch visceraeyes and he flips red, what information do we gain? am i suddenly scum because chaos13 linked us together? i hardly think so
if we lynch drazerk and he flips red, dear god we have a ton of information, syllo is under fire, gm is under fire, lots of the people that are on the viscera train are under fire

then again, based on recent games they're both probably non-red lawlawlawl

remember: lynching based on analysis on day 1 is relatively difficult and pretty luck based, i'm a lot more comfortable following a possible dt check

He wants to lynch Drazerk for information, which is generally a terrible reason to lynch someone, but not for him because he is bussing his teammate and knows if he flips red he can get a bunch of townies lynched based on them being on the wrong wagon.

On June 30 2011 10:20 youngminii wrote:
Also, huge /facepalm on town for forcing a DT roleclaim.

Did you seriously think VisceraEyes was playing scummy? Think very carefully and reflect upon these words:

He is not the one that played badly. YOU are.

Scum slip? Why do you think it's town forcing a DT to roleclaim rather than scum team? This is also when he says VE was obviously a townie, despite not actually making any effort to get Drazerk lynched.

On June 28 2011 15:05 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 14:55 sandroba wrote:
Okay, I'm going to go completely against everything that's been said so far. Mafia are not dumb. They are very likely NOT going to lurk in this game. People should NOT be shooting into the lurker list until later or only if this becomes a real problem.
You guys can argue WIFOM all you want, but I'm willing to bet mafia won't find themselves in the lurker list any time soon.
Also we shall not make any lists this game. We will discuss 2-3 players at a time and leave blues to act on their own.
I shall start discussing YM. You pretty much started being agressive as always, but I feel after Mafia XLII you must have learned already that this is gonna lead us to endless confusion, no? My opinion is that you are abusing your town meta this game, throwing pointless flawed acusations like there's no tomorrow. Makes a lot of sense as scum trying to hide their colors doesn't it?

It does make a lot of sense but I seriously just have to throw it out there:

My scum play is even worse than my town play, if you can imagine.

You say I've thrown around pointless flawed accusations but I haven't really, in XLII I tunneled 2 people with lengthy analyses but this game I've done no such thing, nothing of the sort although I am trying to maintain the same level of aggressiveness.

I agree with you that arguing WIFOM is stupid though. Who gives a flying fuck who the mafia are gonna shoot on that list (well the medic does but discussing it isn't going to help), all you're going to do is waste valuable time and space and confuse everyone and everything.

I agree, your scum play is incredibly bad, as shown above. That is also why your "lengthy analyses" are missing.

Youngminii is SCUM
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 14:26 GMT
#938
Don't this big games usually have 2 DTs? Seems like an extremely risky bus
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 14:28 GMT
#939
Though early on Youngminii made a weird comment about our "only DT" dying. If there's no roleblocker, would that indicate there's only one dt
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 14:34 GMT
#941
The real DT doesn't have to claim though as he can instead check other linked suspicious people and if mafia happens to kill him, his flip will guarantee one or more scum lynches. Letting VisceraEyes to die instead of doing such a risky gambit makes more sense
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 15:45 GMT
#958
On July 01 2011 00:41 Palmar wrote:
lol, that's convenient.

I wonder what propped that shot, youngminii and I pointing in his direction?

Go town, lol

Can you link me to where youngminii pointed to his direction?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 15:49 GMT
#960
You were leaning towards him being scummy which you should get some credit, but it was buried, as far as I can see, in a huge list of suspects, which isn't for me quite enough to clear you
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 17:05 GMT
#986
That doesn't make sense to me. Why not update it in real time?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 17:10 GMT
#991
There's no way this setup has 3 DTs, so if there's another DT out there, VisceraEyes is scum and a check would be wasted on him. I still don't think it makes any sense whatsoever for VisceraEyes to claim DT and bus Drazerk in that situation if they can't tell how many DTs the setup has.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 17:14 GMT
#994
Well you better ask RoL how it works before someone gets flipped. If town can lose KP in real time, so should mafia.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 17:53 GMT
#997
But every power role has to take the same risk and I would say more often than not it would be a risk worth taking as mafia, but I suppose changing the rules midgame is bad
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#1022
As I mentioned earlier, the scummiest thing youngminii has done so far was wanting to lynch Drazerk despite having no opinion of him based purely on a supposed DT check by TAA, even after it was shown the time line didn't really allow for it. Before TAA flipped blue, he had mostly been avoiding Drazerk completely and claiming his posts were too "shallow" or something.

His response to my case, especially #7 was quite weak as well, considering he freely admitted to tunneling townies in XLII and a lot of veterans also thought VE was acting out of character.

Soon after the case he posted that "he was pretty damn satisfied" with my recent posts, but then 10 minutes later decided keeping his vote on me was worth it after all based on chaos13 looking "god damn pro-town"
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
June 30 2011 20:48 GMT
#1025
As for GM, I don't see how vigi hitting him is useful. The vigi would have to roleclaim and we've no way of knowing if the vigi is town without wasting a DT check on him. Now, this would net us two scum, but the odds them doing this gambit are low. However the mere possibility means GM can't be confirmed in this manner. Even assuming we believe the vigi and thus confirm both, one or both of them will be likely mafia targets. If the vigi is a compulsory vigi, this doesn't seem like a good trade. It seems to me GM has to be lynched sooner or later.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 01 2011 09:17 GMT
#1103
Actually that's a decent plan
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 01 2011 09:18 GMT
#1104
Especially since by now it will be clear whether there is one or two compulsive vigis (two is very unlikely anyway)
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 01 2011 09:19 GMT
#1105
EBWOP: err by tomorrow
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 01 2011 09:20 GMT
#1107
No, the comp vigi does not have to reveal as he can just shoot GMarshal on d4. Actually even revealing himself to lynch red at this point wouldn't be a bad alternative
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 01 2011 09:27 GMT
#1112
The only way this plan can go wrong is if there is no compulsive vigi, but we will likely also know that by the end of the day 3. If there is a compulsive vigi, GM is guaranteed to either die tomorrow or be confirmed town
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