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Actually, with that said, and with the OMGUS behavior he has displayed, as well as this post providing a convenient excuse for any scummy posts or being on a townie lynch (bolded), I will be voting syllogism
On June 29 2011 05:29 syllogism wrote:
I'm not afraid of leading bad lynches at all, but I'm not going to lead lynches I don't believe in. There are a few players who are slightly suspicious (Drazerk for one), but the problem for me is that it's impossible to tell if they are bad town (like me I suppose), or bad mafia. Such a lynch is definitely preferable to lynching an active, contributing player like GMarshall, so I'll commit to such a lynch later or even make a case. There are also surprisingly many good players still lurking.
Also I maintain my analysis of the game mechanics was clearly pro-town and useful, which is more than can be said of your contributions so far.
##Vote: syllogism
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On June 29 2011 12:33 Lanaia wrote:
I've reread this thread and have made my decision. Between Hiro and Drazerk, I feel Drazerk is less valuable to the town. I mean this in that we should lynch him over Hiro. Of course, everything I feel has already been said by others because they were obviously faster than me. I figured I'd inform you in this thread.
I'm pretty sure I said it before, but let me state it again, explicitly:
Don't lynch who you think is more useless, lynch who you think is scummier
If you think Drazerk is scummier, then by all means carry on, but if you think Hiro might be scummier, but Drazerk is more useless, then you should reconsider. Of course, I don't know your full thought process, but from what you wrote, it looks like you settled on two people and just picked the one contributing less.
On a side note, I'm taking a look at Drazerk, especially with gems like this:
On June 29 2011 09:09 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:00 Cthsazsa wrote:On June 29 2011 08:56 Drazerk wrote:
Well looks like I am dead, At least when I am dead ill flip green Proving GM is innocent. Was bound to happen as I am always day 1 lynch suspect.
When I die you will be at a disadvantage but at least you will have a Guaranteed Townie. ( Medics better defend him don't let my death be in vain )
I'm off to bed How in holy hell does your death guarantee GM as town? Simply giving up without defending yourself is one of the scummy things to do besides lurking. A real townie wouldn't simply say "Well your lynching a green your loss" and just give up. They'd be trying to defend the hell out of themselves. I'm still convinced you're scum. May I suggest you read simple mini mafia 4 where as town I give my self up to be lynched every day?
"Hi, remember that thing I did in that other game when I was town, well I'm doing it again, so I must be town, right?  "
I'm not sure if he's scum or bad town at this point though, so I'm going to wait a little before jumping on a bandwagon, and go through his posts in other games, maybe.
Then:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him.
Pretty sure you can't use something someone said outside the thread, as there aren't PMs allowed in this game. I don't even know why he's asking questions in a public irc, and not just PMing the host or asking here. -_-
Also:
GGQ, why are you bringing up lists again, and at this point in time, when we're done talking about them, and then using that list that isn't even thorough/complete compared to the one GM made?
On June 29 2011 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to read through the entirety of the thread before they start posting, especially if what they have to say is only relevant to a past discussion. This will stop people bringing up things that the rest of town has mostly stopped talking about, and restarting a useless discussion.
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On June 29 2011 13:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:33 Lanaia wrote:
I've reread this thread and have made my decision. Between Hiro and Drazerk, I feel Drazerk is less valuable to the town. I mean this in that we should lynch him over Hiro. Of course, everything I feel has already been said by others because they were obviously faster than me. I figured I'd inform you in this thread. I'm pretty sure I said it before, but let me state it again, explicitly: Don't lynch who you think is more useless, lynch who you think is scummierIf you think Drazerk is scummier, then by all means carry on, but if you think Hiro might be scummier, but Drazerk is more useless, then you should reconsider. Of course, I don't know your full thought process, but from what you wrote, it looks like you settled on two people and just picked the one contributing less. On a side note, I'm taking a look at Drazerk, especially with gems like this: Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:09 Drazerk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:00 Cthsazsa wrote:On June 29 2011 08:56 Drazerk wrote:
Well looks like I am dead, At least when I am dead ill flip green Proving GM is innocent. Was bound to happen as I am always day 1 lynch suspect.
When I die you will be at a disadvantage but at least you will have a Guaranteed Townie. ( Medics better defend him don't let my death be in vain )
I'm off to bed How in holy hell does your death guarantee GM as town? Simply giving up without defending yourself is one of the scummy things to do besides lurking. A real townie wouldn't simply say "Well your lynching a green your loss" and just give up. They'd be trying to defend the hell out of themselves. I'm still convinced you're scum. May I suggest you read simple mini mafia 4 where as town I give my self up to be lynched every day? "Hi, remember that thing I did in that other game when I was town, well I'm doing it again, so I must be town, right? " I'm not sure if he's scum or bad town at this point though, so I'm going to wait a little before jumping on a bandwagon, and go through his posts in other games, maybe. Then: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. Pretty sure you can't use something someone said outside the thread, as there aren't PMs allowed in this game. I don't even know why he's asking questions in a public irc, and not just PMing the host or asking here. -_- Also: GGQ, why are you bringing up lists again, and at this point in time, when we're done talking about them, and then using that list that isn't even thorough/complete compared to the one GM made? Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to read through the entirety of the thread before they start posting, especially if what they have to say is only relevant to a past discussion. This will stop people bringing up things that the rest of town has mostly stopped talking about, and restarting a useless discussion.
I do find him scummier than Hiro, and as they were the two people I had in mind that I wanted to lynch, I chose him as well. I could have sworn I'd written that into my post announcing it. Apparently I'm not fully here.
I'm sincerely hoping that exchange on IRC palmar spoke of did not actually happen as it sounds kind of ridiculous and is it not technically against the rules as well? It feels unsettling but I want to see what Syllo says about this claim Palmar's made (And to see if they're both on the same page about it).
In regards to Wiggles quoting Wiggles, I agree completely. It really is a pain when people read maybe halfway through and THEN start posting without finishing. Things tend to change in relevancy with each passing page.
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I thought I told you guys to stop this shit with sinani.
The Palmar lynch I can completely understand. He's terrible yada he likes bandwagons he just wants to kill people etc. I KNOW
This is his town play. Sure, there's a possibility that he's mafia and he's hiding behind his regular town meta (unlikely) but this is just him, you can't do anything about that. In fact, I've heard his scum play is excellent (never seen it myself), if so why would he post like a poor town?
Anyway, between hiro drazerk syllo I'm gonna go with syllo. I firmly believe that both hiro and syllo are scum at this very moment, drazerk's posts are too shallow to make a judgement out of.
For syllo, some of you are arguing that his first post about helping direct blues should relieve him as that is clearly town favoured. Wrong, go read that post again, it's a very heavily veiled post that doesn't actually help anyone. Do you really think a medic won't know that the last 6 hours of a day is unhittable? What syllo does is point this out, then says but medics shouldn't save straight away because scum will hit in the 6 hours before the last 6, but then it's up to the medics because if we tell them what to do scum will abuse it etc. etc.
Then in the next paragraph he completely nullifies everything he said by saying "But nah, you can ignore everything I said if you want". Just remember, lots of scum like to make a huge 'helpful' post at the start to appear as townie as they can. I've seen this first hand.
Every post he has made until Palmar calling him out has been extremely neutral and unhelpful to the town cause. As soon as Palmar gets to him, syllo OMGUS votes Palmar?
Yeah and there was the whole EXTREMELY WEAK hiro voting for syllo for 'pressure' and after like a one liner from syllo hiro backs off.
Best candidate, by far. Easily.
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Guys I really suck at posting in an aesthetically pleasing manner. I am very sorry for that.
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On June 29 2011 13:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:06 Varpulis wrote:On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. I don't suppose that you have proof? I don't recall bringing up outside of game evidence. Asking questions in the thread is inside the game evidence. Posting about the setup, roles, and mechanics during the game is inside the game evidence. His meta is not, but that isn't my main point. I even admitted that it's WifoM. yah, exactly, this is wifom. I can paste the IRC logs? But how about you look at the evidence at hand, the fact that he has posted almost exclusively blanket statements, the fact that he OMGUS'd me without the balls to put a vote on me with it, the fact that his defense relies on some analysis of mechanics that anyone wanting town credit could've done. I'd much rather you look at what I said in the post I voted against him and judged him on that.
Bloody hell, you just don't stop, do you? Could you actually go read that big post about mechanics, and honestly tell me if you, as a mafia member, would post that just to gain town cred?
I'll wager that I've read through syllogism's posts more than you have. I have concluded that he is town from those posts. Frankly, in my opinion it is wise to be patient in the early part of the game. Most analyses are weak, and most bandwagons terrible. Cautious != scummy, not in the first 24 hours. You also wave off all of his contributions to the discussion as blanket statements, thus invalidating any possible defense. It's enough for pressure, which is what I assumed it was, but not sufficient reason to lynch. There, I responded to your request to look through his posts "analysis."
Now let's look through your posting history shall we? What do we find? A bunch of blanket statements about lurkers and lurking blues, meta (regarding sinani and DropBear), and then a lot of tunneling.
Stop being a hypocrite please.
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Just saw the thing about the irc chats.
Do not bring shit from outside the game unless it is meta related.
I expect anything about them to be ignored from here on in.
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On June 29 2011 13:31 Varpulis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:08 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 13:06 Varpulis wrote:On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. I don't suppose that you have proof? I don't recall bringing up outside of game evidence. Asking questions in the thread is inside the game evidence. Posting about the setup, roles, and mechanics during the game is inside the game evidence. His meta is not, but that isn't my main point. I even admitted that it's WifoM. yah, exactly, this is wifom. I can paste the IRC logs? But how about you look at the evidence at hand, the fact that he has posted almost exclusively blanket statements, the fact that he OMGUS'd me without the balls to put a vote on me with it, the fact that his defense relies on some analysis of mechanics that anyone wanting town credit could've done. I'd much rather you look at what I said in the post I voted against him and judged him on that. Bloody hell, you just don't stop, do you? Could you actually go read that big post about mechanics, and honestly tell me if you, as a mafia member, would post that just to gain town cred?
Gonna say it again.
It wasn't helpful.
It was a whole bunch of WIFOM.
Mafia like making a huge post that looks helpful to gain town cred.
Seriously, can you actually re-read it please?
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@Youngminii Never assume that just because somebody has a blue role they know how to use it. History shows that blues do some pretty stupid shit.
I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow, unless I die in my sleep.
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You don't seem to understand.
What syllo posted wasn't helpful to medics/blues in a strategical or tactical manner, which is what blues usually fail at. What he posted was semantics about the time restrictions, basically the real time aspects of it. The real time aspects were simple as shit to figure out, in essence what he said is this (for the medic part, which he ended up saying "you can ignore if you want" anyway).
A medic protects someone for 36 hours. No one can be hit in the last 6 hours. Therefore, a medic should protect someone in the first 42 hours of each day.
DO YOU REALLY think there's someone stupid enough not be able to figure that out on their own?
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On June 29 2011 13:33 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:31 Varpulis wrote:On June 29 2011 13:08 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 13:06 Varpulis wrote:On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. I don't suppose that you have proof? I don't recall bringing up outside of game evidence. Asking questions in the thread is inside the game evidence. Posting about the setup, roles, and mechanics during the game is inside the game evidence. His meta is not, but that isn't my main point. I even admitted that it's WifoM. yah, exactly, this is wifom. I can paste the IRC logs? But how about you look at the evidence at hand, the fact that he has posted almost exclusively blanket statements, the fact that he OMGUS'd me without the balls to put a vote on me with it, the fact that his defense relies on some analysis of mechanics that anyone wanting town credit could've done. I'd much rather you look at what I said in the post I voted against him and judged him on that. Bloody hell, you just don't stop, do you? Could you actually go read that big post about mechanics, and honestly tell me if you, as a mafia member, would post that just to gain town cred? Gonna say it again. It wasn't helpful. It was a whole bunch of WIFOM. Mafia like making a huge post that looks helpful to gain town cred. Seriously, can you actually re-read it please?
amen brother.
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On June 29 2011 13:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
And all that chitter chatter on page 25. And to better distinguish, I'm voting 201. Plus, I haven't had a chance to sift through the spam.
This came out of nowhere. What evidence do you have against me?
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Stop derailing the thread with the IRC nonsense. You're scaring others (like me) from posting.
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On June 29 2011 13:26 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 29 2011 12:33 Lanaia wrote:
I've reread this thread and have made my decision. Between Hiro and Drazerk, I feel Drazerk is less valuable to the town. I mean this in that we should lynch him over Hiro. Of course, everything I feel has already been said by others because they were obviously faster than me. I figured I'd inform you in this thread. I'm pretty sure I said it before, but let me state it again, explicitly: Don't lynch who you think is more useless, lynch who you think is scummierIf you think Drazerk is scummier, then by all means carry on, but if you think Hiro might be scummier, but Drazerk is more useless, then you should reconsider. Of course, I don't know your full thought process, but from what you wrote, it looks like you settled on two people and just picked the one contributing less. On a side note, I'm taking a look at Drazerk, especially with gems like this: On June 29 2011 09:09 Drazerk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:00 Cthsazsa wrote:On June 29 2011 08:56 Drazerk wrote:
Well looks like I am dead, At least when I am dead ill flip green Proving GM is innocent. Was bound to happen as I am always day 1 lynch suspect.
When I die you will be at a disadvantage but at least you will have a Guaranteed Townie. ( Medics better defend him don't let my death be in vain )
I'm off to bed How in holy hell does your death guarantee GM as town? Simply giving up without defending yourself is one of the scummy things to do besides lurking. A real townie wouldn't simply say "Well your lynching a green your loss" and just give up. They'd be trying to defend the hell out of themselves. I'm still convinced you're scum. May I suggest you read simple mini mafia 4 where as town I give my self up to be lynched every day? "Hi, remember that thing I did in that other game when I was town, well I'm doing it again, so I must be town, right? " I'm not sure if he's scum or bad town at this point though, so I'm going to wait a little before jumping on a bandwagon, and go through his posts in other games, maybe. Then: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. Pretty sure you can't use something someone said outside the thread, as there aren't PMs allowed in this game. I don't even know why he's asking questions in a public irc, and not just PMing the host or asking here. -_- Also: GGQ, why are you bringing up lists again, and at this point in time, when we're done talking about them, and then using that list that isn't even thorough/complete compared to the one GM made? On June 29 2011 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to read through the entirety of the thread before they start posting, especially if what they have to say is only relevant to a past discussion. This will stop people bringing up things that the rest of town has mostly stopped talking about, and restarting a useless discussion. I do find him scummier than Hiro, and as they were the two people I had in mind that I wanted to lynch, I chose him as well. I could have sworn I'd written that into my post announcing it. Apparently I'm not fully here. I'm sincerely hoping that exchange on IRC palmar spoke of did not actually happen as it sounds kind of ridiculous and is it not technically against the rules as well? It feels unsettling but I want to see what Syllo says about this claim Palmar's made (And to see if they're both on the same page about it). In regards to Wiggles quoting Wiggles, I agree completely. It really is a pain when people read maybe halfway through and THEN start posting without finishing. Things tend to change in relevancy with each passing page.
Ok, that's fine then. It's just that I always see townies posting "Oh, well this guy is useless so let's just lynch him". It's normally not a good idea to do so, especially if you think he's just useless, as opposed to say, actually scummy. However, it looks like you actually voted for the person you find scummier, as opposed to just the more useless, so that makes me happy. :p
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On June 29 2011 13:31 Varpulis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:08 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 13:06 Varpulis wrote:On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same.
Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?".
This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue.
he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him.
I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. I don't suppose that you have proof? I don't recall bringing up outside of game evidence. Asking questions in the thread is inside the game evidence. Posting about the setup, roles, and mechanics during the game is inside the game evidence. His meta is not, but that isn't my main point. I even admitted that it's WifoM. yah, exactly, this is wifom. I can paste the IRC logs? But how about you look at the evidence at hand, the fact that he has posted almost exclusively blanket statements, the fact that he OMGUS'd me without the balls to put a vote on me with it, the fact that his defense relies on some analysis of mechanics that anyone wanting town credit could've done. I'd much rather you look at what I said in the post I voted against him and judged him on that. Bloody hell, you just don't stop, do you? Could you actually go read that big post about mechanics, and honestly tell me if you, as a mafia member, would post that just to gain town cred? I'll wager that I've read through syllogism's posts more than you have. I have concluded that he is town from those posts. Frankly, in my opinion it is wise to be patient in the early part of the game. Most analyses are weak, and most bandwagons terrible. Cautious != scummy, not in the first 24 hours. You also wave off all of his contributions to the discussion as blanket statements, thus invalidating any possible defense. It's enough for pressure, which is what I assumed it was, but not sufficient reason to lynch. There, I responded to your request to look through his posts "analysis." Now let's look through your posting history shall we? What do we find? A bunch of blanket statements about lurkers and lurking blues, meta (regarding sinani and DropBear), and then a lot of tunneling. Stop being a hypocrite please.
So your proposal on how to play the first day is we sit back and do nothing, while patting each other on the back and throwing out random advice that anyone with half a brain can figure out anyway, it's just a race who gets the town cred by being the first to post.
Seriously Varpulis, it's time I call you out. How about you build us a case against a possible scum and try to put some pressure on people, instead of telling other people how to play. We need to find scum yes? What's your suggestion?
And yes, I fucking love killing people.
Excuse me for trying to win this thing.
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On June 29 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote:
Stop derailing the thread with the IRC nonsense. You're scaring others (like me) from posting.
What do you mean? People just posted saying that you can't use something someone said outside the game (Not meta), as evidence for anything. The discussion hasn't been derailed, nobody's talking about it, just a couple people said to cut it out. I also don't get what you mean where you say it's scaring people from posting. How do you know others are scared, and why should people saying not to do something borderline breaking the roles impede your posting in any way?
If you want to post, post. There's no reason to ever be scared of posting your thoughts, especially as a townie. This post just looks like an excuse to not post and lurk. If you're scum, it's not working, and if you're town, you shouldn't get intimidated into not posting. Lurking is never the way to go...
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I'm busy at work, so i'll read this thread in ~5 -6 hours.
hopefully, the results are not finalized in stone yet.
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okay back home, read up, still don't feel the need to change my vote
@varpulis
sorry, you're right, i didn't explain myself well
my vote for palmar was because i felt like people were jumping on a bandwagon that had very little merit. it was highlighted by this quote by him:
On June 28 2011 22:10 Palmar wrote:
But sure, he's the best idea so far, let's bandwagon this thing.
which to me is just extremely scummy
hence my vote (which i will not be changing as of now)
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gtrsr, if you look at the context and the discussion that was around back then do you see any reason for the mafia to stick their neck out?
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Event!
TheAwesomeAll the Detective has died.
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EPT
