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On June 21 2011 18:59 Ace wrote:By the way please be aware that since this game starts at Night 0 the chance of dying before getting heavily into the game is very real. Dont be upset
Will all types of night actions be available for use at Night 0? I'm assuming this will be added in the role PM's once sent but I was curious if you could answer before the game.
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On June 22 2011 01:02 Palmar wrote: I think what he's asking is, is night 0 considered a "normal night".
So unless specified otherwise, all night actions that can be used any or every night, can be used at night 0 like any other night.
Pretty much this.
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/confirm
Sorry if I held things up I was out last night and at work now. Can someone explain how a hospital runs out of flowing water? Ughgj
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On June 26 2011 05:03 GGQ wrote: It's been brushed over, but I just want to stress real quick that a 'no lynch' is not nearly as damaging to town when it's no flip and scum has only 1kp. Obviously we can't get in the habit of doing it, but we shouldn't be treating it as taboo.
Also, on a personal note, let's make sure we are all engaging with the game right away rather than waiting until we are at 9 players left and wondering if it's lylo.
No lynch is bad for town. Town gains NOTHING from no-lynching. Period.
We have a 0% chance of lynching mafia if we don't lynch. We have a slightly higher % chance of lynching mafia if we do.
Lynching is a town weapon. Don't disable it or suggest disabling it. I fail to see how no lynch at any point in the game is helpful in this setup.
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Okay first off anyone who is suggesting that there is a serial killer is automatically getting an FoS today. You're just introducing more unnecessary discussion into a chaotic setup. Have no fear, there's a plan to clear this crap up. If you have a pro-town KP role, don't fucking use it tonight. Consider tonight a day off from your ability. Unless you're some compulsive vigilante this shouldn't be a problem. Assuming there is only 1 night kill tonight we can safely say there is NO serial killer.
On to more important things: The Lynch
We know that there needs to be a majority lynch, the magic number today is 9. Here's what we should do. Build a case against, AT THE MOST, 2 players. This should be done within the first 24 hours. Have some good arguments ready because the town will pressure you by asking WHY we should lynch the person you're suspecting. Once we have a general idea of the two players we want to lynch we settle it over a vote. This guarantees that one player will be lynched.
A couple of rules when voting should be established: 1. Do not vote for yourself 2. Do not vote for someone to essentially avoid confrontation or to "save your vote." 3. Try to vote once and stick with it.
If you are protown you should abide by these rules. If you're scum you are highly encouraged to break these rules. Townies caught breaking these rules will die, and I will not feel sorry when we lose due to idiocy.
Lurking will get you killed, so don't try it.
I'll post suspects when I'm ready, it's really too early to just throw names out there.
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Also the magic number is 9, but we're going to strive to get the vote number up to 13. This means every mafia can try and 'vote swap' and their attempts will fail. The number is always Magic Number + Potential Mafia Total, so remember it.
Vote swapping is a great way for mafia to mess around and create confusion. This plan should eliminate that and avoids splitting the votes between more than 2 parties (essentially eliminating the chances for a no lynch).
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On June 27 2011 21:44 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 21:37 Amber[LighT] wrote: Okay first off anyone who is suggesting that there is a serial killer is automatically getting an FoS today. You're just introducing more unnecessary discussion into a chaotic setup. Have no fear, there's a plan to clear this crap up. If you have a pro-town KP role, don't fucking use it tonight. Consider tonight a day off from your ability. Unless you're some compulsive vigilante this shouldn't be a problem. Assuming there is only 1 night kill tonight we can safely say there is NO serial killer.
On to more important things: The Lynch
We know that there needs to be a majority lynch, the magic number today is 9. Here's what we should do. Build a case against, AT THE MOST, 2 players. This should be done within the first 24 hours. Have some good arguments ready because the town will pressure you by asking WHY we should lynch the person you're suspecting. Once we have a general idea of the two players we want to lynch we settle it over a vote. This guarantees that one player will be lynched.
A couple of rules when voting should be established: 1. Do not vote for yourself 2. Do not vote for someone to essentially avoid confrontation or to "save your vote." 3. Try to vote once and stick with it.
If you are protown you should abide by these rules. If you're scum you are highly encouraged to break these rules. Townies caught breaking these rules will die, and I will not feel sorry when we lose due to idiocy.
Lurking will get you killed, so don't try it.
I'll post suspects when I'm ready, it's really too early to just throw names out there. How will townies die if they break the rules? How will it be enforced? A vigi kill.. oh wait.. I guess rule breakers will live another day! How will lurkers get killed? Wait.. is there a day vigi? Don't Shoot!
The town KP halt is just for tonight. Don't play dumb.
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On June 27 2011 22:37 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 21:40 Amber[LighT] wrote: Also the magic number is 9, but we're going to strive to get the vote number up to 13. This means every mafia can try and 'vote swap' and their attempts will fail. The number is always Magic Number + Potential Mafia Total, so remember it. Just saying, the momement the magic number hits, the vote ends. Show nested quote +This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the majority has voted or after the deadline has passed will not count. So how about a Big Bold FOS on anyone who hammers without a good reasonAlthough Gmarshal is not with us and probably is town, I think I should still answer this. Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 12:24 GMarshal wrote: Anyway, this is a closed setup XXXVI was semi-open, this means that fake claims are a lot easier to pull off here. If I claim something like Funerary House Director and make up powers to go along with it, well then, how are you going to prove me wrong?
Also IIRC the only claim that was carried out in XXXVI was a fake dt claim by the mafia, to get a SK lynched, which was only counteracted by some screwiness with missing PM's for the serial killer or something like that.
Still its been a while, and I've learned a lot about playing mafia since then. Firstly, although there was a fake dt claim, it was the counter claim by the third party that shut down the claim. Fake claims are something we're going to have to accept as necessary hazard in working in a closed setup, and actually can help the town as it spotlights attention on mafia, something they try to avoid. In addition, the semi-openess doesn't matter. It's just like XXXVI, sure you know that there could be a DT (and we're pretty sure there is a DT in this game), but you don't know if there is 1, 2 or even none at all. The fake claim is just as easy to pull off.
Hrmm I ignored that detail when I made that post up. I was going to throw it up during Night 0 but Fishball was right, there was no reason to discuss anything during the Night 0 phase.
This is why votes should not be placed immediately. It's going to be tough to keep mafia away from bandwagoning if we have suspects who aren't strong cases with 6-7 votes.
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Lists never seem to help the town out as much as you would hope. I think it was said during PTP lists are generally bad. Typically you want to target 1-3 players who are acting scummy on a certain day. You try to get them to post and be active, and then once the town decides to lynch or live, you move on.
In PTP the idea of "zodiac lists" were brought up. How many people paid attention to lists past day 1? I don't need to repeat what BC has already said, since I agree with his logic about lists.
I'm interested in hearing more from Chaoser, aside from his lovely looking list. This is a new strategy for someone who has typically avoided lists and scum-hunts one at a time. I'll refer to Chaoser's daring strategy during Mafia XXXIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=46#906 [Read Day 2: How Chaoser & Sandroba somehow got me lynched].
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On June 28 2011 21:37 deconduo wrote: I have two trains of thought going on at the moment:
-Fishball is mafia. Mafia are scared that I'm going to kill him so they are trying to get me lynched. I would put Fishball, BC, Kurumi as scum. Other possible suspects are Palmar, Jackal, Chezinu. Radfield, LSB are probably town.
-Fishball is town. Mafia are just lurking away happy at the fact that nothing is going on. Chaoser, ILJ, sandroba would be my biggest suspects. Radfield, BC, Caller (*sigh*), probably town.
If you put a gun to my head, given how the game has played out so far, my gut says option number 2 right now.
If you want me to say something like Fishball is 100% town or 100% mafia, don't be dumb. Its day 1, theres not exactly a lot to go on. I don't know anything for certain. I do know that Fishball has been pretty unhelpful so far. When he was asked nicely to step up his game he refused. When he was threatened to step up his game he refused. As such, unless a better target presents itself, I'm shooting him tonight.
No you're not.
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On June 29 2011 00:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 00:28 deconduo wrote:On June 29 2011 00:27 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 00:20 LSB wrote: Intresting analysis. But why does "trolling" make someone mafia? If trolling makes someone mafia, shouldn't Caller also be in that list?
Call me naive, but I assume everyone is here to try to win. I don't think anyone is going to argue that mindless trolling, followed by the defense of "but that guy is trolling more", is in any way helpful for the town. I know Kurumi is capable of playing against his win condition (see PTP) but in a game full of experienced vets, I'd expect him to at least try to win, instead of looking at this as his own little playground. So assuming he's playing to win, that leaves only the possibility of him being mafia. So yes, trolling = mafia. So Caller and Fishball are mafia as well then? Caller just might be. Fishball has contributed more than you. People keep saying that, yet are unable to point to a single contribution by him. Mafia team: Fishball BC Kurumi Palmar
Lol I don't buy that list.
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I was going to vote for chaoser before you took his position. Don't take your short stay in closed casket as a personal attack or anything .
Cherrypickers be pickin....
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Cherry picking my posts doesn't make me scum.
I just find it funny that conveniently after chaoser made that garbage list post he was replaced, essentially making it useless for the town to ask viscera what was meant.
And Rol you should watch your shit. All of a sudden you were.'catching up' and someone throws my name into the ring and you hop on me out of convenience. You gotta do better than that if you want to help your scum buddy out. Guess its easy to throw your friends under the bus first
Another reference for the town: when Rol and I are on the same mafia team he will stay very far away from me. Also when jackal plays normally he will call out someone for being scum by literally saying "xxx is scum."
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So then why do you even want to vote for me?
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Do you guys wonder why the votes haven't reached 9 yet?
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On June 29 2011 15:28 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact is, there's a reasonable argument FOR a No Lynch under certain circumstances where town is concerned (See RoL's post on the matter).
Conversely, there is literally NO time Mafia would choose to No Lynch over mislynching a townie. I don't care who's on the team, I don't care if they risk exposure by doing so, it is 100% of the time better to lynch a townie than it is to No Lynch.
And Mafia would KNOW I'm town.
So I can't stress this enough guys. I'd bet almost anything in the world that the remainder of the scum-team is on this list. My guesses are in red, for what it's worth.
BloodyC0bbler, sandroba, Radfield, deconduo, Amber[Light], Jackal58, Palmar
If I die tonight (which I find likely), take a GOOD HARD LOOK at the people on this list.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
You should really do your homework before you assume something.
If I were mafia and my scum buddy was a few votes away from being lynched I'd definitely choose a no lynch first. Conversely, [YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE?] if there were two people who I knew were town and were causing a LOT of mayhem, I, as scum, would rather go for a no lynch instead of exposing my team by vote-training. Both scenarios are entirely possible.
Your logic hasn't been helping you, and your credibility is going down the toilet.
Since Viscera is just talking out of his ass at this point I'll let him keep doing it until we lynch him, but this is EXACTLY what I warned the town about in my very first post during Day 1. Everything that I wanted to avoid actually ended up happening: -Town couldn't pick just 2 targets to lynch -Town couldn't reach any magic number -Town couldn't trust each other, so the integrity of the town went out the window -We no-lynched, the worst possible thing for the town to do.
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On June 29 2011 16:35 VisceraEyes wrote: BC, I'm not concerned about the 'world of hurt' you're going to bring on me. First of all, I called you out SPECIFICALLY to prove that you're ACTIVELY lurking.
You never once analyzed me. Not. Once. You never even posted after I'd been replaced in until near the deadline.
And you're right...your town play IS obvious. Obviously NOT how you're playing this game.
Also, I've voted for 3 people. Palmar, Amber and for like 2 secs LSB, which was IMMEDIATELY retracted as I never felt he was scummy and I admitted that. That's not flailing about. Yes, I DID plead for my life. If you DARE call that scummy, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo guy.
You don't find me scummy at all. And chances are, if you were town, you wouldn't find me scummy then either.
You've got a long road ahead of you if you plan to A) put me in a world of hurt, B) Analyze everyone who didn't vote for me and C) try and push ILJ for lynch tomorrow as you'll SURELY kill me tonight. I don't envy you, sir.
So do what you have to do. I'm but a small fish in a big pond here. But not quite as scummy a fish as you'd hoped. Kisses!
Says the guy who not only managed to get lynched on the first day in PTP, but also used an ability that I gave him to take out BC, a player who was playing pro-town from the start.
Maybe you could enlighten us with your analysis of BC's obviously anti-town play in both of these games.
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On June 30 2011 22:03 Caller wrote: RoL, you should claim.
Or at least post something that isn't scummy.
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Actually we can confirm his checks. We can't confirm you though.
#vote: RebirthofLegend
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On July 01 2011 00:14 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 00:13 Amber[LighT] wrote: Actually we can confirm his checks. We can't confirm you though.
#vote: RebirthofLegend Cool dude, how do you propose that we confirm his checks? You can't, go back to lurking scum. I don't care if I need allies right now, I am not going to pretend you and LSB still aren't on my radar for playing like shit.
blah blah blahhhhhhhhhhh
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You fool no one should be protecting Fishball. He, like Decon and Caller yesterday, made themselves liabilities. If you claim, medics should not feel compelled to protect someone because they "said they were a DT/Vigi." If Fishball thinks he's going to get all of this magic protection tonight he's clearly not playing as well as he used to. He knew the risks, and he acknowledged the fact that he shouldn't have claimed. You haven't given us shit all game so far.
Every post is "im catching up" or "I agree." You haven't once presented an original idea which leads me to believe you're just trying to bullshit your way through the game, hoping no one catches you. You were suspicious day 1, now you're even more suspicious. You're clinging onto these little connections that are making you look even more scummy. Instead of just claiming, or doing anything helpful, you're belittling Caller. Good idea.
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You couldn't minimize SC2 to vote for VisceraEyes. You were the deciding vote.
Seriously though... Desert Strike? You couldn't alt+tab for 2 seconds?
Since you obviously read the thread, you must have forgotten that I did present a voting idea that was promptly ignored by everyone, and trolled on by about 3 people, Caller being one of them. Everything that happened during Day 1 would have been prevented if people just listened to me, or at least acknowledged my post. I don't recall you replying to it.
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On July 01 2011 03:25 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 03:13 Palmar wrote:On July 01 2011 02:56 Caller wrote: shit
fuck guys my bad, Fishball and BC are both mafia.
I totally lied about my abilities. I have TWO shots, not one. I was waiting for somebody to bumble into the trap I had laid, but I didn't expect BC to do it.
I'm going to prove it by shooting BC tonight. That doesn't even make fucking sense. if BC is mafia and you're not, he's hardly stupid enough to lie about you telling the truth, fully knowing you could easily call him out on it. I say we kill and hang you all. what are you talking about I have said since night 1 that I have had one shot and that I used it to shoot GMarshal. BC says that he asked Ace using his "lie detector" role to see if that it is true that I had one shot and used it to shoot GMarshal. He claims to have gotten a "true" result. Except that I actually have two shots. Therefore, it is impossible for BC to have gotten a true result. But he doesn't know I have two shots. I'm vigilante and I know I have two shots. I kept one of my shots as an ace in the hole, and claimed I only had one shot. BC fell for it and said that his role says that I only have one shot. I however have two shots. And it is very easy for me to prove it. By shooting BC. If BC is telling the truth, he won't die, because apparently I only had one bullet and I used it on GMarshal. However, if he is lying, then he will die. Consider the following circumstances: Obviously impossible. Then BC doesn't die, and I'm just someone who had 1 KP and already used it. In other words, I can't be mafia, because they have infinite shots. Then BC will die. And You will see that tomorrow. If we were both mafia, I would be unable to shoot BC. So he wouldn't die. Mafia have two options: either shoot someone, or shoot nobody, or shoot BC. They can't shoot BC because he is mafia, but lets say they do somehow. Then the end result is the same as if they shot nobody. Now let's say they shot nobody. BC dies. If he were telling the truth (which he's not) then that means mafia must have killed him, and that I didn't. Which in turn confirms me as 1KP role. If he was lying, then he should be dead anyways for lying, and nobody will miss him, except mafia. And if they shoot somebody else-well, should be obvious what this implies.
So Fishball is lying?
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Viscera should be lynched tomorrow. This bullshit better clean itself up tonight. I'm getting a headache from reading this.
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On July 02 2011 10:49 VisceraEyes wrote: It's cool, I didn't want to play with you bitches either.
Have fun auto-lynching my replacement. Lol is this serious?
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On July 02 2011 22:56 LSB wrote:I claim Jack of All TradesCaller is lyingNight 0I Protected BC, trying to see if someone would snipe him. Nothing happened Night 1I used a Mimic Action on RoL. Mimic allows me to target a player and mimic whatever action they did the previous night. I found out from Ace that if I mimiced a mafia, I would mimic the mafia kill action in addition to any night actions. So what I did was Mimic Rol to himself. If Rol was mafia he'd shoot himself. If he wasn't, he wouldn't. It was a free role check + vig hit. What happened was that I mimiced Rol trying to shoot someone, and also I mimiced Rol trying to investigate a dead body. This proves that RoL was the Mafia CoronorMy two ways of verifying this claim is in thread is 1) I claim that I shot Rol Night 1, no one else has claimed the shot. 2) I breadcrumbed Rol's coroner claim in case he would have tried to use it. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2011 23:13 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote: Oh also,I am up for killing any fucking Coroner who shows up tomorrow. You can go to hell. The probability You're Scum Coroner are as high as Sea Towers in Gdynia. I support this, for my own reasons. Oh and ##Vote: RebirthofLegend Night 2Because Caller said that he was going to shoot BC, I decided to use my Watch action on BC. Guess what I saw? Only one person visited BC last night, and that was Caller. ##Vote: Caller
This is pretty interesting to know.
It just seems like there's some convenient things happening to Caller all the time...
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On July 03 2011 05:50 Kurumi wrote: RoL was Red and was on VE. I believe Radfield's claim. BC was green. Dec was probably green. Jackal is probably town. Amber is red. We either have two scum left or jonn was voting different.
Start proving it.
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You're the one complaining about a lack of analysis... soo..... analyze me if you're going to accuse me.
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On July 03 2011 08:49 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 19:04 sandroba wrote: I've thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that mafia's optimal strat is going to be defending their team without fear, since no flips mean they keep hidden even after a scum lynch. Only reason I have a problem with this is that it feels kinda un-sandrobalike. He's smarter than this. Oh, and he's been very careful with his fingerpointing, something that starkly contrasts his townplay, which I normally think is both aggressive and accurate. And extra suspiciously (to me at least) he was pointing fingers at someone I thought at the time, and we now know, was town. Here's a little piece Fishball wrote on him day 1. + Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 14:51 Fishball wrote:I normally don't like wasting my time picking out other player's post, but this is just getting ridiculous. Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: I actually think you guys are missing the point on LSB post to be honest, cuz I can see a really pro-town outcome if you read between the lines. Blanket statement with no content. Me and BC at least explained our arguments. What you're literally saying is, "John Doe is a nice guy, just look between his legs". Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: Chaoser is my number one suspect for the moment, I call him out on lurking then he pops up and posts a ranking list with no explanation. Seriously? I wonder how many times I've seen this. Regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and the content of his posts, your accusations alone does not make a strong case. Accuse a random lurker, lurker pops out and posts something, therefore said lurker is scum! Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: @Deconduo What do you think about chaoser? Is he town that needs to die or scum? "Is he town that needs to die or scum?" What kind of shit question is this? "Town that needs to die?" What, are you deconduo Junior?! Does the consensus shows a strong town read on deconduo? No. Then why are you asking deconduo specifically? What do YOU think of Chaoser besides the so called reason listed above? To summarize, your post is a filler post, with little to no content, faking activity and discussion with an agenda that does not help Town at all. Normally, I would just disregard these posts, assuming the players were just bad, but since this is an invitational game, I'm curious about your alignment.
Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote: Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get. And back to Jackal while I'm at it. Like I said, I never named names. Those who defended me have made it obvious. Regardless, you also think I'm scummy - "as scummy as they get" that is. Alright, cool. Do you have a case about it? No? Another blanket statement? Is this the so called contribution and activity everyone was yearning for? I call this crap. Here is a comment from RoL's "analysis" of the game day 1. Show nested quote +Sandroba- Posting nothing, supports LSB? Odd. Actually defends himself fairly well to fishballs accusations. Going in the gray area. I just don't like it, because if you think he actually defended himself, why is he not in the "town" part, and if he didn't, he should be in the "scum" part. Sounds to me like scum trying to be neutral about their partners. But yeah. The main reason for this thing is just that I don't feel sandroba is playing his town game, looks much more like some scumgame. He kind of FoS'd caller after caller's claim. I'm not sure what to make of it. But yeah, I'm pretty sure Sandroba is scum
Though you're right about Sandroba from an analytics perspective I don't think he's scum. I thought the same thing all game, but his FoSing has been limited. Just because he's pointing the finger less doesn't mean he's necessarily more scummy...
Think about the games where he has been a strong FoSer vs this game.
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On July 03 2011 08:58 ilovejonn wrote: Come on town, we have to vote together. =/ You've all seen Caller's game, we can take down mafia 1 by 1, no need to create more targets than we need. FoS on people not voting Caller and thus trying to break town focus and cause a no-lynch!
Be patient there's more to winning than just voting for the sake of voting quickly.
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Oh hey guys.
I'm going to work but I'll at least claim now. My role is Recruiter Mason. If you haven't guessed I was able to create a PM conversation with a player. However, I was able to pick someone myself, or pick someone completely at random who would be confirmed town. I chose to pick someone randomly and I got Jackal58! The confirmed townie would also be notified that I am pro-town. I'll post our PM conversation when I'm off since I'm on a phone right now
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I think sandroba should be lynched first...
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I'm out of work at 3 so expect my pms to be here before 4. I cant believe the number of people who came to the ER today -_________-;
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As promised. I'm doing it without the quotes since some of the PM's got lost in quote world:
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Oh hey! Date: 6/30/11 13:42 You and I can PM back and forth!
This is actually really good for us because now I don't need to worry about posting as much, and I don't have to FoS you! I was allowed to receive a random partner who was pro-town, so I know that you are not mafia.
You can use this information to confirm yourself if you need to, assuming I die or we don't publicize our PM contact. Anybody who tries to attack you about your alignment should pretty much be FoSed.
You don't need to trust me if you don't want to. If you still think I'm scum I can't stop you from assuming that. This game is hard to play, especially trusting people in such a closed setup.
I'm going to wait to see what to do today. I would like to push another lynch on Viscera if BC decides to target him. I'm not really good at persuading an entire town to vote for somebody [see Day 1]. I also want to see how far Caller goes to take out LSB or ILJ.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 6/30/11 22:02 Well Amber Ace sent me A PM informing me of your Mason status and also included in the PM that you are a town aligned player. So unless Ace has some sort of sick vindictive mind I believe you to be town as well.
I just awoke. Let me go get caught up in the game and I will share my thoughts.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 6/30/11 22:16 Oh cool I didn't know Ace would be so kind to us
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 6/30/11 23:42 I don't trust Ace as far as I can throw him in a game but I must put my faith in him as a host. And btw I'm just a vanilla townie. No special abilities here.
What do you make of Fishballs claim? I'm inclined to believe him atm. I don't think the scum team would so easily put one of their own so close to a noose. I see no glaring contradictions in RoL being scum. I was already leaning that way due to his vote swap on day 1.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 00:11 To be honest a lot of what he posted aligns with what I thought.
I posted defending BC's playing style when Viscera attacked it. I believe BC to be pro-town.
I was highly suspicious of RoL when he came out of nowhere to pummel me after Viscera went after me. I mean now you can kinda see where my posts were coming from throughout Day 1. RoL's scumtells are almost too obvious. I had him pegged yesterday.
I wasn't sure where to align myself in the whole dec vs. fishball thing yesterday. It really felt manipulated and choreographed. There was something off about it that made me feel like we should just ignore it. I was shocked that so many people voted for Decon. I think that list should be looked at for scum in the future if we're still stuck.
I'm still stuck on whether to trust Fishball or not. His post is really convincing, and he usually doesn't stick his head out like this. He plays similarly to how I play in these games. With that said I've manufactured long posts like this prior to the day post just to make sure that I would have something ready early. I think the best thing to do is to just leave Fishball to fend for himself. Don't let him get protection and see what happens. It's tough to determine how scum will play it out since they may want to intentionally not kill him to make him look scummy, or they may try to out him before he becomes a problem. We can catch him in a lie if we get him to check one of us and he comes back with a wrong result. That's always an option.
I don't think lynching Fishball is a good idea. We should have lynched Viscera yesterday, and we should still try to lynch him, but if the town is really adamant about following fishballs claim then we should go after RoL. I'm comfortable voting for either.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 00:23 My only real problem is I'm going against my own mantra of calling all claims in a no flip game as bullshit. RoL is right in that aspect. If fishball is lying we are truly fucked. Perhaps as the day develops we can devise a means to verify his claim. Do you get to add a player each night? Or is it just a one off?
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 00:29 Just one. We're pretty much on our own.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 00:42 Alright. That puts a limit upon how capable we will be in verifying fishball's claim. If we did devise a method that would compel him to check one of us his he will have to claim we are green regardless of his alignment. If he is scum he will also know that who ever he checked is in communication with another townie. With just the two of us I don't see how we can get a real check on him. I shall have to ponder this some more.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 01:01 We shouldn't say he should check us, but if he somehow lands on checking either of us, there will be less of a reason for him to lie. I kinda want him to feel compelled to check either you or me without us asking him to do it. We have to give him the option to tell the truth: we're both innocent, or to slip up: consider one of us scum.
Am I not understanding his role correctly? How would he know either of us are speaking to another townie? We're not openly claiming this PM session as of now right?
I think not claiming and hanging onto the PM's for later is better. This way when one of us dies the other than confirm that a townie was killed, and that the other one is 100% pro-town, reducing the amount of suspects.
I'm going to see how the other players react. I want to see how ILJ, Viscera, LSB, and BC react. If I read everything correctly they haven't posted about this.
Also I'll just give this to you now, it's the people I'm pretty confident are pro-town aside from us: -Sandroba -Palmar -Radfield
They're also going to be some of the tougher swing voters to convince. They're more skeptical to believe what people will say than any mafia. Mafia will be trusting if you frame the bullshit correctly. Anything to avoid killing their own. I just haven't figured out when and where to implement this idea
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 01:29 I was thinking if we made it obvious that one of us wanted to be checked it would be apparent that there is a PM circle of some sort in order to be able to verify it.
If fishball is scum he won't be checking anybody and any town reads he posts are pretty much invalid anyways. He already knows.
If fishball is a DT any reads he comes back with on us will be green.
The only thing we can really do is hope he calls one of us scum. Or lynch him. If he is scum I think it most likely that he will check you and call you scum. I've been a pretty bland player up to this point.
I agree on Sandroba. Palmar I'm not sure of. Maybe it's just because I don't like Palmar's play style. Radfield most likely town. He's asking to be subbed out.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 04:22 What do you make of Caller and BC?
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/1/11 06:28 I really don't know what to think. Best case scenario is that they are both telling the truth. I mean it would be smart for Caller to hide his 2nd shot if he has 2. I somehow doubt there's a SK in this game since we had 2 hits night 0, and then 1, maybe 2 on night 1.
No one claimed to have protected RoL, which probably would have helped more than hurt. We don't know if anyone went to kill RoL last night, so tonight should help us understand the KP situation a bit more.
If we assume RoL was scum, why would Caller be all over his shit if he were scum too? Logically after Day 2 I would assume Caller to be pro-town, or an SK, if one exists.
Why would BC lie? I don't think there was any reason for him to lie unless there was some valuable information. If you knew Caller was jerking us around saying he doesn't have any ammo, would you speak up?
I don't think Caller shooting anybody proves anything. I kinda hope a medic jumps on BC tonight to protect him.
The best thing to do is wait this out until tomorrow to see what happens. I kinda followed Callers logic, but at the same time I can't trust him.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 00:44 I gotta believe at this point Caller is SK or scum. Too many bullets. Unless we do have a vig that called BS on fishballs dt claim.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 06:02 Caller must be something anti town. Bc wouldn't just lie without any reason. I'm still stuck on him, lsb and chezinu. What do you think of lsbs joat claim ?
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 06:19 I think it's probably bs. LSB loves claiming shit he isn't. We have 1 shot more than we should with Callers RB claim. LSB claims caller visited BC. So who hit fishball? I think scum hit fishball and Caller hit BC. Or we have a vig in the game that called bs on fishballs DT claim. But we're running out of people.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 08:43 So what about this ILJ claim?
We need to figure out who's telling the truth and who's just bullshitting.
What did BC mean to accomplish when he lied about his role?
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 10:33 I think ILJ and LSB may be scum together. Caller is 3rd party. Do you want to claim? We're running out of spots. I'll claim vanilla and let them lynch me to clear you.
______________________________________________________ To: Jackal58 [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 22:59 Do you want me to just claim? There's no point in lynching one of us to confirm the other. Once the day post is up we'll go ahead and claim. It's going to be tough since we're the only people who have been in PM contact.
I'll post our entire PM conversation. There's nothing to hide here anyway.
______________________________________________________ From: Jackal58 [ 2060 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Oh hey! Date: 7/3/11 23:59 I was going to breadcrumb your role in case I die. I'm hoping scum may actually think I have an investigative type role.
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This is everything we discussed in order.
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btw i believe there are wayyy too many blue claims...
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On July 05 2011 09:11 citi.zen wrote: I find it pretty incriminating that he supposedly can't be bothered to analyze anyone because of the "trolls". In this game? Really? He's given no other reason for his apathetic play.
On July 05 2011 08:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 08:36 sandroba wrote: That was a compliment on your scum play btw. You will not get away with it this time. I should compliment you for your scum play. You haven't really slipped at all. There is nothing in your posts I can highlight and yell "look, scum!" It's just the overall posting style that I find incriminating.
I agree with both of these posts. He's just throwing names out at this point and isn't really putting much effort. He's much more probing as town.
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##vote: sandroba
Apathy doesn't give you a freebie. Next time don't sign up if you don't want to play (if you flip town-
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that was stupid. Protip: Kill of confirmed players first, not the iffy ones.
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*off
its my first day on a computer.
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As long as I know who we're voting for I'll cast it. Chezinu should be next or who else? I'm trying to get a better handle on who is confirmed and who's just fucking with us. If you're lying you're not helping the town... :/
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Seriously this game has had all of the pro-town players lying their asses off it's frustrating to trust anyone at this point.
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He is not giving us town roles. Police HQ is so killing him doesn't change that. They should've killed him since he was confirmed...
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4 Players left. 1 Mafia?
3 will be alive tomorrow, it's going to be lylo for us.
JeeJee or Palmer.... It's hard to really say JeeJee is scum so it would have to be the person playing his role from the start. I'm going to go through some of ILJ's posts...
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JeeJee, what exactly is your role name?
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If I live tomorrow I I'm going to vote for JeeJee. The convenience of the actions that have led up to now never actually confirmed him as being town. His role is not a forensic scientist, it's a forensic scientist.
On July 03 2011 08:37 ilovejonn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 22:56 LSB wrote:I claim Jack of All TradesCaller is lyingNight 0I Protected BC, trying to see if someone would snipe him. Nothing happened Night 1I used a Mimic Action on RoL. Mimic allows me to target a player and mimic whatever action they did the previous night. I found out from Ace that if I mimiced a mafia, I would mimic the mafia kill action in addition to any night actions. So what I did was Mimic Rol to himself. If Rol was mafia he'd shoot himself. If he wasn't, he wouldn't. It was a free role check + vig hit. What happened was that I mimiced Rol trying to shoot someone, and also I mimiced Rol trying to investigate a dead body. This proves that RoL was the Mafia CoronorMy two ways of verifying this claim is in thread is 1) I claim that I shot Rol Night 1, no one else has claimed the shot. 2) I breadcrumbed Rol's coroner claim in case he would have tried to use it. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2011 23:13 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote: Oh also,I am up for killing any fucking Coroner who shows up tomorrow. You can go to hell. The probability You're Scum Coroner are as high as Sea Towers in Gdynia. I support this, for my own reasons. Oh and ##Vote: RebirthofLegend Night 2Because Caller said that he was going to shoot BC, I decided to use my Watch action on BC. Guess what I saw? Only one person visited BC last night, and that was Caller. ##Vote: Caller I'm going to confirm this claim to be true. LSB is not scum, nor am I. The plan I had today since we lynched RoL, was to check his dead body to confirm if Fishball was actually Cop or not, thus confirming him and myself as town. However, my plan wasn't really necessary as it seems like someone could reveal roles on Day posts, and I also did not expect THREE kills. I am the Forensic Scientist, basically I can check the roles of dead people. Why am I so sure LSB isn't lying? Because he said he mimic'd RoL checking a dead body. I had investigated deconduo's body and he revealed to be a Vigilante. I also found out on that same check that Scamp's body was missing. RoL's dead body check returned as Mafia Janitor and not mafia Coroner. I was confused as to why Scamp's body was missing, but if my speculations are correct, RoL's role can clean up dead bodies therefore not allowing people like me to check them. I also checked GGQ on Night 0, he returned Busy Paramedic and town aligned. The only people I haven't checked are GMarshal, and Scamp. But I know there are more coroner's left. Caller has kept on saying Fishball and BC are scum, and then they died. Obviously he is trying to justify his kills just by repeatedly saying they are scum and he was certain since it's no flip that he'll be safe. But as we can see Fish and BC didn't flip scum. My vote is going to be on Caller today. ##Vote: Caller
Let's pick this apart:
1. I'm going to confirm this claim to be true. LSB is not scum, nor am I.
Notice the immediate mention of "I am not scum." Scum typically manipulate situations to appear more town. Townies don't need to legitimize their actions, they know they're town. Keep this thought in mind, as it's for this reason that I was so mad about the immense lying of pro-town players throughout the game.
2. I am the Forensic Scientist, basically I can check the roles of dead people.
Okay you were right about your role name, but basically this isn't a good claim. This is not what your role does. Your role is more of a watcher role, not a detective role. You can read more about the forensic scientist here, but basically your role includes "target[ing] a dead player and learn[ing] who targeted them during the game." Checking roles is for the cops, you wouldn't know roles or alignment.
Watcher roles are also a very good claim for mafia because these roles work well for town OR mafia aligned players, unlike a pro-town godfather or a mafia virgin. When I did a little research about the virgin role it didn't seem very "ace like" to give the mafia team this role. This role has 0 benefit to them and just creates more of a mess for them to clean it up. They need to lynch a mafia to get a no-kill night? That's when they do their best work! They're going to sacrifice one person for 0 gain? Or if that player accidentally gets lynched the mafia team is penalized for not helping him? Yah okay.
3. Why am I so sure LSB isn't lying? Because he said he mimic'd RoL checking a dead body. I had investigated deconduo's body and he revealed to be a Vigilante. I also found out on that same check that Scamp's body was missing. RoL's dead body check returned as Mafia Janitor and not mafia Coroner.
The real answer is because you're scum and he wasn't lying.
Okay lie no. 1: You "knew about" 3 people in 2 night phases: Deconduo, Scamp, and RoL. Lie no. 2: Deconduo was a vigilante. Maybe, but you're a watcher role, and this was discussed to death. Lie no. 3: "I also found out on that same night that scamps body was missing." You can't tell us his role, but you know that his body was missing? That's not what your role does. It basically can check roles, right? Lie no. 4: Your scum buddy RoL told you about Scamp because he really might be the janitor, or coroner, who cares what it's called. He claimed Coroner himself when he called Caller a jackass. Lie no 5: Your dead body check once again revealed a role. What's nice is we don't really know what that role was because it wasn't visible. Now I'm wondering why Ace would have the watcher check roles of dead people when the town police officer just needs to stay alive past night 2. That makes your ability worthless after night 2.
4. I was confused as to why Scamp's body was missing, but if my speculations are correct, RoL's role can clean up dead bodies therefore not allowing people like me to check them. I also checked GGQ on Night 0, he returned Busy Paramedic and town aligned.
Lie no. 6: Your speculations? You were told what happened. RoL proly masterminded this retarded stunt 5 days ago and he's probably laughing at how no one caught this clusterfuck yet. You checked someone on Night 0?! Do you know what a forensic scientist does?! I'm not an expert by any means but I've watched enough CSI to know that in order for an investigation to occur, a crime needs to be committed. How the hell did you even check any dead bodies before anything happens? I can't believe no one caught this. Lie no. 7: "You checked GGQ on Night 0." He probably is a medic. You probably also didn't need to worry about anything because the town can't really account for his role. I'm going to re-iterate that your role is not an investigative role. You're a watcher. This never happened. Your ability most likely started on Night 1, when you could actually use it. Lie no. 8: "RoL's dead body check returned as Mafia Janitor and not mafia Coroner." VS "RoL's role can clean up dead bodies therefore not allowing people like me to check them." If he cleans up dead bodies then he's a janitor. I bet he cleaned up GGQ on Night 0, and Deconduo on Night 1. Remember, Deconduo got modkilled, so it would have been a really good idea for him to clean up that body to confirm his vigi claim. This would have legitimized a LOT of pro town players. This is also how you knew this information. You probably did watch people, but they weren't these two.
5. The only people I haven't checked are GMarshal, and Scamp.
But you knew that Scamps body went missing?
I hope town makes the right move and takes out ILJ//JeeJee.
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##Vote: JeeJee For the GG
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So tell us what you discovered the last few nights. I don't recall him telling us anything since that claim. Everything seems convenient.
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Interesting how ilj thought his role worked at night and now you're saying that this role activates during the day. This is fascinating
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GG
Sorry JeeJee the inconsistencies got me too riled up. I was pretty sure I was next to die. I thought that would have put some signals in some peoples minds.
Palmar just because I dress up a turd doesn't mean it's a turkey dinner. You're easy to pursuade
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Oh and I was at work, that's why I never posted. I was going to reply on my lunch but when I refreshed I was already taken care of...
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On July 09 2011 19:43 Palmar wrote:good writeup kurumi, I agree with most of it. The mistake was ultimately mine, I simply did not have the balls to make an independent decision. Can we get a link to the mafia QT? There are some things that I really, really had a problem with though. My big mistakes were getting caught up in a useless argument with VisceraEyes on day one, and then obviously the end-game. But here are a few that really had a detrimental effect on town. a) BC's claim. The idea was novel, I really like the fact that his read on Fishball was so strong that he was willing to lie to confirm him. But man... when you lie as town, you better make damn fucking sure that you cannot get caught, cause that's when the shitstorm happens. I learned this lesson in PTP. b) Caller's trolling and repeated lying. Sure, I can get the idea behind claiming one-shot vigilante in order to avoid roleblocks, but why the hell did you not just say "sorry, my bad" after killing BC. I'm almost sure that you'd have gotten away with it. Everyone knew then that BC had been lying, even if it was for the good of town. So we basically wasted a lynch because you felt the need to lie again. c) Kurumi/ILJ/Chezinu. All of those guys did very little to establish their innocence, at least in my opinion. Instead of trolling and throwing one-liners, then I'd really appreciate it if people would attempt to look pro-town. I wasted effort going after Kurumi, and Chezinu got cleared by a confirmed innocent, and he STILL got lynched, only based on the fact that he was scummy as hell anyway. ILJ was just... not beneficial to town. If JeeJee had been playing from the start we'd have rocked this game, easily, but ILJ did nothing to show he was innocent early on. VE/Deconduo got themselves modkilled. That was pretty stupid.Anyway, I agree with everything you said except the conclusion Kurumi. Town had at least a very reasonable chance to win this game. We fucked up repeatedly and didn't make any massive game-changing plays really. Yes, the mafia didn't have to do much to achieve the win, but at least citi.zen's claim was well thought out. Kudos to Sandroba for that... I told you he was a good player not playing to his standard Any number of things could've turned this into the town's favor, we just kept fucking up. a) Caller simply claiming the kill on BC b) VisceraEyes not getting himself modkilled (I was 100% sure on him being town) c) Me not fucking up the end-game d) Chezinu actually put effort into proving his innocence e) ILJ doing the same, or JeeJee having played from much earlier f) ILJ not screwing up his roleclaim g) BC not lying to confirm Fishball I think even just one of those things would've turned the game into town's favour.
The numbers would have been town favored if these modkills never happened. Damn you Deconduo!!!!!!!!
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On July 11 2011 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 05:49 citi.zen wrote: Like I said, good reads but the gamble didn't seem necessary.
You bring up another interesting point that was lost on most players: there was no way Caller would be red at that point in the game. At most he could be 3rd party, but not red. We knew it and were thrilled to get him lynched in short order, before anybody asked questions (anybody other than Chez, that is). The game maybe wasn't necessary, but It was a hope to set myself up as a target for a mafia hit before caller. Also, as horrible as it sounds, almost everyone was trolling at the point I fake claimed and honestly the only way to really get discussion going I figured was to do something insanely outlandish.
And it worked, oddly enough.
Though I don't think anyone actually believed Caller to be scum. I couldn't see either of you actually being scum. It just looked like troll vs troll and a lucky guess.
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