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On June 29 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 04:41 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't like either of the lynch targets at the moment.
Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in.
deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him.
So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch. I don't think it was for lack of contributing so much as what the little Chaoser contributed was. Some shitty list which could be used to feign actually being active, and then VisceraEyes attacking you when you appear pro town. I was actually going to suggest switching to Kurumi as well until I saw VisceraEyes first contribution attacking town players. Is chaoser honestly that stupid. Like I don't think anyone in this game really thinks that posting lists somehow counts for contribution. I'd much rather kill Kurumi and see what VisEyes is up to. Trust me VisEyes has a bit of a thing for trying to lynch me and he really likes to misread stuff. Though, in all honesty, I want to lynch Radfield. I think that'd be our best lynch today. Sure You want to lynch Radfield scum,You killed GMarshal now You need to get rid of Radfield. Classic. I might contribute but since noone's making a case against me (just "herp derp he is trolling,so is Caller but he is scum Caller is not" nonsense) Also, thirteen wait for another transmission.
I wish I was a vigi so I could shoot you.
The attitude "I'm not contributing until I'm forced to" just enrages me.
If you think you're a funny troll, consider yourself successful, I genuinely mad at you.
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On June 29 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 04:41 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't like either of the lynch targets at the moment.
Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in.
deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him.
So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch. I don't think it was for lack of contributing so much as what the little Chaoser contributed was. Some shitty list which could be used to feign actually being active, and then VisceraEyes attacking you when you appear pro town. I was actually going to suggest switching to Kurumi as well until I saw VisceraEyes first contribution attacking town players. Is chaoser honestly that stupid. Like I don't think anyone in this game really thinks that posting lists somehow counts for contribution. I'd much rather kill Kurumi and see what VisEyes is up to. Trust me VisEyes has a bit of a thing for trying to lynch me and he really likes to misread stuff. Though, in all honesty, I want to lynch Radfield. I think that'd be our best lynch today. Sure You want to lynch Radfield scum,You killed GMarshal now You need to get rid of Radfield. Classic. I might contribute but since noone's making a case against me (just "herp derp he is trolling,so is Caller but he is scum Caller is not" nonsense) Also, thirteen wait for another transmission.
lol is this a joke? You just said that you might contribute, but since no one is making a case against you fuck it?
I am officially okay with killing Kurumi instead of viscera and giving viscera another day for redemption.
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See, I'm so mad I forget random words.
EBWOP
I am genuinely mad at you.
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##Unvote Radfield
##Vote Kurumi
For reasons stated in my analysis and following posts. And also, cause if he can't be arsed playing, I can't be arsed playing with him.
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Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 29 2011 02:57 Caller wrote:
also, ilovejonn is mafia
First thing you've said that I agree with. Someone should start the ball rolling here as time is of the essence. I'll push it when I get off tonight.
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On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong.
You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote.
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On June 29 2011 05:03 Radfield wrote:First thing you've said that I agree with. Someone should start the ball rolling here as time is of the essence. I'll push it when I get off tonight.
Please, if you have time to post right now if you're at work or whatever then do it right now. I'd love to see how I'm the strongest case for Day 1 lynch. Oh, and what happened to we should lynch inactive/lurkers? If you can convince the whole town to lynch me when I'm at work 6 pm - 1 am I'll be amazed, and also depressed. Remember when Radfield said it a Day 1 no-lynch isn't too bad? Yeah, that's where I disagree with him. There are plenty of lynch candidates right now.
Also, what happened to the people saying we should never no-lynch yet are not doing anything about it. Look at how many lone votes on a single person there are. The way things are heading right now by deadline comes there won't even be a lynch if we can't come down to 2 targets max.
I'm going to hold off on Vis since he just subbed in and made points allowing us to see where he stand on things, but my vote stays on deconduo. I don't know what he is trying to do but it's not helping town. How can he prove after the night that he is a vig and shot someone and not just scum/SK? As been said by tons of people it's all wifom.
We can either buckle down on 1 lurker/troll and 1 person we think is scummy, better than having more than 4 targets up for lynch. Kurumi/Caller + deconduo would be my choices. FOS on people voting for no reason and people having a lone vote on very weak cases.
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On June 29 2011 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong. You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote.
Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating.
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On June 29 2011 05:22 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong. You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote. Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating.
So let's just get rid of him?
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On June 29 2011 05:25 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:22 Jackal58 wrote:On June 29 2011 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong. You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote. Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating. So let's just get rid of him?
The problem I have with that atm is I think he's most likely town. I don't subscribe to the "useless townie" theory. Useless townies are inactive and the host deals with them through modkills. The one time I pushed the useless townie card was on Bill Murray. It almost cost us the game. I'd rather not revisit that scenario.
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Why Hesmyrr or Palmar are Scum
Let's look at what Hesmyrr contributed before he got replaced...
+ Show Spoiler +On June 26 2011 03:29 Hesmyrr wrote:SO. MUCH. WOT. ARGUARGUARGU /confirm GMarshal, about Show nested quote +So we hang any dt who claims to have found mafia and then we lynch their claimed check , why are lynching DT claim first? I know every guilty result claim should be regarded with skepticism (especially when one consecutively claims to have found guilty in which case your statement might be justified) but as long as the possibility of coroner - or any role that can somehow 'check' validity of one's statement - exists it should be net loss for us to lynch the DT first. Radfield basically ninja tl;dr'd what I wanted to say.
Noone gives a damn that someone said what You wanted to. Voice Your opinion in Your OWN words,when You agree with something,BACK THE SHIT UP.
Also look at his addition to "lynch DT before his claimed guilty" He says that we should lynch DT's target and make Coroner check the dead body.. What this gives us?
WIFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. A lot.
So:
DT says X is Mafia.
We lynch X.
REAL Coroner reveals(OH MY GOD YOU ARE DEAD SON) and confirms that the dead guy is scum.
Yay,two real blues revealed! Good deal for mafia.
False DT says X is Mafia (he is not)
We lynch X.
False Coroner reveals and confirms that the dead guy was indeed Mafia.
Hooray,our lynches are now Scum's!
False DT says X is Mafia (he is not)
Real Coroner denies it.
Now even more Wifom emerges and I am already tired of thinking how bad could it end when scenarios like that appear.
The other post is about how terrible Toy Factory Mafia was for Town or shit like that,we're done with Hesmyrr's posts. Yeah.
Now Palmar.
He jumps into a game with a plan.. TERRIBLE PLAN. Well,for us,not for them Scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 09:21 Palmar wrote:
I seem to have entered the thread at a great time.
The town is lost in disarray, confusion and fear, but no longer do you have to suffer from this, as your savior has arrived. Since I missed all the fun on discussing policies, I'll chime in on them a bit.
Vigs should shoot first night, and every night there after. I don't care if this means the game is shorter, it means that higher percentage of the kills are town kills, and thus in effect reducing the number of mafia kills. As any vig hit is guaranteed not to hit one townie, it has a slightly higher chance of success than a lynch. So fire away my friends!
Any people pushing for no lynches, or no shooting are not my friends.
Also, deconduo is probably scum. I suggest we either lynch him or ask for a specific kill target or something.
I also think Kurumi is scum, but I guess that can wait a bit.
He suggests that we should make our furniture from bodies,sounds fun. Sure that Vigilante shooting won't shoot himself,but since it is no-flip NOTHING is confirmed. You shot 100% Scum in Your eyes? Better pray he wasn't last Coroner. You shot semi-lurking guy? He better wasn't DT who had 2 Red checks in his pocket. Also shooting like that gives even more chaos.
"I think X was Mafia shot!"
"I think it was Z,he was active!"
Fuck that,we had two kills Night 0 which were something we totally did not expect. Vigilantes are not for shooting randomly,Vigilantes are DTs who give confirmed checks in any other game. In this game,they're KILLERS. They don't prove anything,they only silence the person they killed.
I'd like You to look at this sentence
Any people pushing for no lynches, or no shooting are not my friends.
END. Where's Your voice about no lynches? Why is it bad? You just threw it out like that.
"NO LYNCHES ARE BAD SON AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE YOUR DADDY"
Nope.
He brings two scum suspects,one already under pressure and other flying under the radar. He leaves a spot for Deconduo to "redeem" himself,but in my case,he is like:
"He is scum,but this isn't our priority now"
Wat. Really? If I am scum,PUSH MY LYNCH,GET ME DEAD. I am scum right? Well,in Your eyes maybe yes,but I know my role. 13 2 6 3 2 2 13
Now pardon me for a bit.
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On June 28 2011 22:20 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 22:13 Kurumi wrote:On June 28 2011 22:11 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 22:09 Kurumi wrote:
Palmar,You were the guy who said mass shooting is acceptable in this game. It is not. It is. I forgot for a while You're scum,sorry. I probably shouldn't bother trying to explain this to you, but some of the vigs might read this and actually get the idea. assume a hypothetical situation, 7town vs 2mafia. assume worst case scenario, town mislynches every time. there is a vigi in game. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town cycle 2 5v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 3 3v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) Game over. In this scenario, three out of the 5 kills it takes to end the game, were town sided kills. Now let's assume we have a batshit insane compulsive vigilante. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 2 4v2 lync (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) Game over. In this scenario, the town gets 4 of the 5 kills it takes to end the game. Vigilantes should be shooting the first night, and every night there after, especially in a game where we don't know the role-setup and the flips don't mean anything, so any clever mafia is just going to keep random distance between all it's members.
My problem with your 'statistically viable scenario' is that it assumes that a vig is still present after Cycle 1 in both scenarios. You claimed that it was a worst-case scenario, why not erase all the vigs after the first cycle? Especially since you're putting such importance on them. It seems to me that Mafia could luck into killing a vig AS WELL AS town could unknowingly lynch a different vig. THAT would be worst-case scenario.
This math is absolutely illogical and means absolutely nothing. Anyone swayed by it in THIS particular game is here by a fluke. Palmar is talking nonsense and should be lynched. Today.
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On June 29 2011 05:22 ilovejonn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:03 Radfield wrote:On June 29 2011 02:57 Caller wrote:
also, ilovejonn is mafia First thing you've said that I agree with. Someone should start the ball rolling here as time is of the essence. I'll push it when I get off tonight. Please, if you have time to post right now if you're at work or whatever then do it right now. I'd love to see how I'm the strongest case for Day 1 lynch. Oh, and what happened to we should lynch inactive/lurkers? If you can convince the whole town to lynch me when I'm at work 6 pm - 1 am I'll be amazed, and also depressed. Remember when Radfield said it a Day 1 no-lynch isn't too bad? Yeah, that's where I disagree with him. There are plenty of lynch candidates right now. Also, what happened to the people saying we should never no-lynch yet are not doing anything about it. Look at how many lone votes on a single person there are. The way things are heading right now by deadline comes there won't even be a lynch if we can't come down to 2 targets max.I'm going to hold off on Vis since he just subbed in and made points allowing us to see where he stand on things, but my vote stays on deconduo. I don't know what he is trying to do but it's not helping town. How can he prove after the night that he is a vig and shot someone and not just scum/SK? As been said by tons of people it's all wifom. We can either buckle down on 1 lurker/troll and 1 person we think is scummy, better than having more than 4 targets up for lynch. Kurumi/Caller + deconduo would be my choices. FOS on people voting for no reason and people having a lone vote on very weak cases.
Do you see the contradiction here?
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On June 29 2011 05:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:25 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 05:22 Jackal58 wrote:On June 29 2011 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong. You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote. Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating. So let's just get rid of him? The problem I have with that atm is I think he's most likely town. I don't subscribe to the "useless townie" theory. Useless townies are inactive and the host deals with them through modkills. The one time I pushed the useless townie card was on Bill Murray. It almost cost us the game. I'd rather not revisit that scenario.
I agree sort of, but apparently yelling at him and saying we are going to kill him right now was the only way to get him to actually write something. Kurumi seriously, if you aren't going to willingly post or contribute, why even bother playing?
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It's simple math, and even with a vigi kill, mafia kill and lynch every night, plus 1-2 one shot abilities, the game will last at least 4 cycles (probably more) which is more than enough for any analysis you might want to do.
Vigilantes are killers, yes. But hopefully their shots are educated guesses and they have higher statistical chance of hitting mafia than any other kill in the game.
Wanting to not use that tool, would be... insane
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I'm not saying don't use the tool Palmar, that's not what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying is that we shouldn't just have them blindly shooting every single cycle just because they can. It WILL hurt town as they WILL hit more town than scum. Save Vig shots for people who are clearly and obviously scummy. Granted, you won't get as much of that in this PARTICULAR game, but just having them fire at random people every opportunity would be........insane.
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On June 29 2011 05:38 Kurumi wrote:Why Hesmyrr or Palmar are Scum Let's look at what Hesmyrr contributed before he got replaced... + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2011 03:29 Hesmyrr wrote:SO. MUCH. WOT. ARGUARGUARGU /confirm GMarshal, about Show nested quote +So we hang any dt who claims to have found mafia and then we lynch their claimed check , why are lynching DT claim first? I know every guilty result claim should be regarded with skepticism (especially when one consecutively claims to have found guilty in which case your statement might be justified) but as long as the possibility of coroner - or any role that can somehow 'check' validity of one's statement - exists it should be net loss for us to lynch the DT first. Radfield basically ninja tl;dr'd what I wanted to say. Noone gives a damn that someone said what You wanted to. Voice Your opinion in Your OWN words,when You agree with something,BACK THE SHIT UP. Also look at his addition to "lynch DT before his claimed guilty" He says that we should lynch DT's target and make Coroner check the dead body.. What this gives us? WIFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. A lot. So: DT says X is Mafia. We lynch X. REAL Coroner reveals(OH MY GOD YOU ARE DEAD SON) and confirms that the dead guy is scum. Yay,two real blues revealed! Good deal for mafia. False DT says X is Mafia (he is not) We lynch X. False Coroner reveals and confirms that the dead guy was indeed Mafia. Hooray,our lynches are now Scum's! False DT says X is Mafia (he is not) Real Coroner denies it. Now even more Wifom emerges and I am already tired of thinking how bad could it end when scenarios like that appear. The other post is about how terrible Toy Factory Mafia was for Town or shit like that,we're done with Hesmyrr's posts. Yeah. Now Palmar. He jumps into a game with a plan.. TERRIBLE PLAN. Well,for us,not for them Scum. + Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 09:21 Palmar wrote:
I seem to have entered the thread at a great time.
The town is lost in disarray, confusion and fear, but no longer do you have to suffer from this, as your savior has arrived. Since I missed all the fun on discussing policies, I'll chime in on them a bit.
Vigs should shoot first night, and every night there after. I don't care if this means the game is shorter, it means that higher percentage of the kills are town kills, and thus in effect reducing the number of mafia kills. As any vig hit is guaranteed not to hit one townie, it has a slightly higher chance of success than a lynch. So fire away my friends!
Any people pushing for no lynches, or no shooting are not my friends.
Also, deconduo is probably scum. I suggest we either lynch him or ask for a specific kill target or something.
I also think Kurumi is scum, but I guess that can wait a bit.
He suggests that we should make our furniture from bodies,sounds fun. Sure that Vigilante shooting won't shoot himself,but since it is no-flip NOTHING is confirmed. You shot 100% Scum in Your eyes? Better pray he wasn't last Coroner. You shot semi-lurking guy? He better wasn't DT who had 2 Red checks in his pocket. Also shooting like that gives even more chaos. "I think X was Mafia shot!" "I think it was Z,he was active!" Fuck that,we had two kills Night 0 which were something we totally did not expect. Vigilantes are not for shooting randomly,Vigilantes are DTs who give confirmed checks in any other game. In this game,they're KILLERS. They don't prove anything,they only silence the person they killed. I'd like You to look at this sentence END. Where's Your voice about no lynches? Why is it bad? You just threw it out like that. "NO LYNCHES ARE BAD SON AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE YOUR DADDY" Nope. He brings two scum suspects,one already under pressure and other flying under the radar. He leaves a spot for Deconduo to "redeem" himself,but in my case,he is like: "He is scum,but this isn't our priority now" Wat. Really? If I am scum,PUSH MY LYNCH,GET ME DEAD. I am scum right? Well,in Your eyes maybe yes,but I know my role. 13 2 6 3 2 2 13Now pardon me for a bit.
I should of read your post before writing. You realize like 90% of your post is based around some sort of fictitious coroner role which might not even exist? I mean, maybe it does, but we have no way of proving whether or not it does and therefore any plan based around absolute uncertainty is stupid.
I will have to find that post where hessmyr/palmar say to lynch the DT check and not the DT. We have beat that topic senseless. If you are stupid enough to claim DT when it can't be proved we will kill you first. If you DT check someone and they come back scum it really shouldn't be too hard to posts that make them look scummy and allow you to (rightfully) tunnel them.
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On June 29 2011 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 22:20 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 22:13 Kurumi wrote:On June 28 2011 22:11 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 22:09 Kurumi wrote:
Palmar,You were the guy who said mass shooting is acceptable in this game. It is not. It is. I forgot for a while You're scum,sorry. I probably shouldn't bother trying to explain this to you, but some of the vigs might read this and actually get the idea. assume a hypothetical situation, 7town vs 2mafia. assume worst case scenario, town mislynches every time. there is a vigi in game. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town cycle 2 5v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 3 3v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) Game over. In this scenario, three out of the 5 kills it takes to end the game, were town sided kills. Now let's assume we have a batshit insane compulsive vigilante. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 2 4v2 lync (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) Game over. In this scenario, the town gets 4 of the 5 kills it takes to end the game. Vigilantes should be shooting the first night, and every night there after, especially in a game where we don't know the role-setup and the flips don't mean anything, so any clever mafia is just going to keep random distance between all it's members. My problem with your 'statistically viable scenario' is that it assumes that a vig is still present after Cycle 1 in both scenarios. You claimed that it was a worst-case scenario, why not erase all the vigs after the first cycle? Especially since you're putting such importance on them. It seems to me that Mafia could luck into killing a vig AS WELL AS town could unknowingly lynch a different vig. THAT would be worst-case scenario. This math is absolutely illogical and means absolutely nothing. Anyone swayed by it in THIS particular game is here by a fluke. Palmar is talking nonsense and should be lynched. Today.
Sure but then you end up in the same scenario as before.
Like, I'm not going to argue for my "Vigis should shoot every night" anymore. I've gotten the message across, I believe it's the best scenario for town, and it's statistically good for town.
But sure, if that's all you've got, then by all means, keep playing badly.
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Btw, I totally don't agree with Hesmyrr about lynching the guilty report first.
So, while you can pretend it's a scumtell, it no longer applies to the player playing.
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EPT
