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sinani, you played pretty terribly, not for the reasons everyone else is saying (well kinda)
you should definitely have a bit more content in your posts, you made yourself a very, very easy target. you shouldn't EVER give up with a "whatever" attitude, you should be defending yourself to the end. your entire defence was mounted by me, and that's just unacceptable. you can't rely on having someone else risk their reputation to save you just because they think you're not scum. you have to mass appeal to everyone else.
in any case, this sucks. palmar and prplhz on huge fos because they (warning: theory) both tried to absolve themselves in the end, realising that they were about to lynch a vet and didn't want to have their hands covered in blood
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On June 06 2011 11:06 Palmar wrote:
yah, too easy.
We have something to work with now, but sadly not enough.
We have quite a bit actually.
Bear with me while I concoct a theory out of my conspiracy hat.
+ Show Spoiler [Theory #1] +Palmar, Mataza and some lurker (probably steff or unichan) are mafia. For the sake of being absolute, I'll choose steff. I hope to be at correct in at least 2/3 of these. Note that prplhz actually started the vote on Sinani. In my opinion it is just a misguided townie post trying to think too hard about who a scum could be. Palmar confuses me in that he played like a complete retard in the first few posts then straightened up. I'm guessing he uses this 'full retard' to accuse Mataza for absolutely no reason, knowing full well that nobody would actually support his lynch since it was completely unfounded. I'm thinking that they were just overeager when they both got mafia and made up some sort of gameplan and they included this at the start. Palmar also basically accuses everyone but doesn't really act on anything, except voting me (lol) and then moving on to someone who already had a vote on him. I mean, most of his reasoning against voting Sinani was meta. He's been using meta over and over again in his accusations today. Palmar, if you are town, I sincerely implore you never to use meta ever again. It is an unreliable way of playing and should only be exercised in advanced levels. Trust me, from experience I know for a fact that meta does not work (unless you're a crazy veteran pro). Palmar tries to absolve himself at the end by switching to OriginalName. Mataza is not online. As for steff, all I can say is @Sinani
Yaah, OMGUS vote - well - you arent giving me something to work with - I am actually afraid that you are a townie being lynched for overacting and pointing to much fingers - but I still find you way to scummy to vote for someone else right now? just your behaviour to try to pin votes on me was a scummy kind of way to do it - its ok to say inactivity, but when that argument isnt valid anymore - you should really try to find something else that atleast might put me in a scummy light? or maybe change opinion and try to work out whats best for town and find someone who actually is scum. but you wont....
also what you bring to the thread is like its pointed out in originalnames post, pretty thin - and now that you are "in the chair" - it doesnt really look like you try to step it up to do something.
theres 4 hours untill the voting ends - and you say its like "OMGUS" vote for me to vote for you - im not just basing my vote on you because you are voting for me, theres the pattern of all your behaviour - and that is kind of my point I'll be working on this theory over the next few days but for now take it with a grain of salt.
And right now I'm extremely uncomfortable with unichan/steff/jeejee's lurkerish activity. If they are mafia they're just skirting by under the radar.
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Don't know if I'm the best cop check. I think it may be safe to play the next day or two assuming I'm town, no? I mean unless you really think my play is really scummy, but there's definitely better people to check imo, especially:
Palmar. He's nearing the top of my scum list but there's a little voice in the back of my head telling me he's just a crappy town player. If we can get a cop to check him I'd be a lot more reassured.
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On June 06 2011 11:41 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 11:33 youngminii wrote:
Don't know if I'm the best cop check. I think it may be safe to play the next day or two assuming I'm town, no? I mean unless you really think my play is really scummy, but there's definitely better people to check imo, especially:
Palmar. He's nearing the top of my scum list but there's a little voice in the back of my head telling me he's just a crappy town player. If we can get a cop to check him I'd be a lot more reassured. It's a (surprisingly) good thought. In general, at least the way I play cop, there's 2 things I look at 1) Someone that the town finds suspicious. I put you up as a cop check because I find you suspicious 2) The other good candidate is someone that's really active. It's pretty obvious that the most active people stir and lead discussion, and if they're mafia, it's very easy to lead the town astray. So someone like Palmar as you mentioned might be a good choice as well. This choice is inherently more risky of course, since mafia are also looking to kill off these people, so the cop might end up wasting their check, but it's a good approach nonetheless. I'd put this as a higher risk/reward option.
Well I mean, if the town is coordinating the detective check, mafia is probably going to (OH GOD I'M GONNA MAKE WIFOM) kill the person we agree to check. I mean if they don't, they're just stupid.
In any case, I'm going to lean on the fact that I defended sinani from the start to remove any suspicions on me for now. I don't know exactly why you think I'm suspicious and I don't really want to know right now (in favour of other discussion) so try to look at the fact that I defended sinani, sinani flipped blue, and postpone your suspicion on me.
I think the general consensus is to check Palmar for now, hopefully it turns out to be eventful.
@OriginalName I think Mataza is pretty scummy and flying under the radar to be honest, no point in acting on this yet though.
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fair 'nuff
my list would be
palmar
mataza
<insert lurker here>
also, i advocate that the cop should roleclaim IF and ONLY IF he finds the roleblocker or 2 scum
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ebwop and obviously if he's about to get lynched as a last defence or something
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I just want people to be checked to find out if they're scum, but I understand your point about assuming no blue roles. I have no qualms about your DT list although I'd prefer palmar and of course I have to agree with your doctor list ^_^
The Lynch
We need to look at who is implicated now that we know that Sinani has flipped town. This will not necesarilly be people who just voted for Sinani. Sucm want to lynch anyone who is not scum, so look for the people who sheeped behind other people's reasons, but tried to absolve themselfs right before the lynch. (Mafia want to lynch anyone but scum, but they don't want to be caught doing it.)
lol, this is exactly what I've been accusing palmar of since night post.
On June 05 2011 18:15 Palmar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sinani206Last person I wanna talk about is sinani206. He has contributed almost absolutely nothing to this game. He created a damn list of post-counts, and he's updating us with vote-counts. This is the lamest excuse for activity I have ever seen. My previous attitude of randomly calling out people for lynching was even more useful than those damn lists. I'm not going to include his lists in this. On June 04 2011 12:48 sinani206 wrote:
Yes I completely agree, but if we don't have any outstandingly scummy players there is no point in choosing the scummiest player (who might not be very scummy at all) over a player with one post and an unexplained vote. Wanting to lynch inactive players is a terrible way to play day 1. Wanting to push inactive or useless people, like has been done to me and stefftastiq is a good way to play. You never want to end up lynching the inactive, cause it's almost guaranteed that you'll end up killing a bored townie. The end vote should much rather go to someone who is actively lurking, but not contributing. Do you know who I'm talking about? On June 04 2011 13:58 sinani206 wrote:
Varpulis, why did you change your mind so quickly after Hesmyrr posted? More "contributions". On June 05 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:49 stefftastiq wrote:I'm awake! - imba Daypost! Day1 always seem to be a bit random - Cant say I have any excellent ideas of finding the scum - but I noted down what I thought while reading up :D @ace @kevdragon @palmar some internal joke about caprio I didnt get? why the lynch ? @Mataza Interesting that you now this game change strategies for entering the game - both of your last beginnings has been quite 'active' :D @sinani I see you name me in your not posted anything yet thread - I posted just before the game started that I was going to sleep. altho, is a list like this commonly made to lead attention away from 'yourself' ? since ofcourse you never would be named in the list  He only responds to people and does not contribute to the discussion at all. He talks about some joke that obviously does not have to do with the current game, and then asks me and Mataza some silly questions. There had not been too much wrong with Mataza's play at this point in time, so I don't see why he begins metagaming with his first post. His question toward me was particularly pointless, because I specifically stated that it was a list of players who had not posted since the Day 1 post. I obviously could not name myself in the list because by posting the list I myself would be posting. Silly filler questions to help his active lurking regimen. ##Vote stefftastiq I don't really understand your motives here. You are much more of an active lurker than Stefftastiq, and you actually have a good history of being useful as town, so I'm very suspicious of you. Stefftastiq's meta suggests that he's very careful even when he's town, so while that doesn't clear him by any stretch of the imagination, it certainly pushes my suspicion rather towards you, seeing I know you're capable of very strong town play. And that's it. Sinani206 pointed out that he has a lot of posts, as that would somehow absolve him of suspicion, but it's just bullshit. He's posting a ton, pushing for lynch on people that don't post, but nothing he's posting has any content at all. I don't think he would've changed his posting habits if someone hadn't pushed him hard like I'm doing now. We will probably get a "useful" post from him in wake of this. Let's see just how useful it is. ##Unvote Youngminii
##Vote Sinani206
Roundabout meta reasoning, voted after prplhz had already voted for sinani and
On June 06 2011 10:43 Palmar wrote:
I think sinani's death would've been too quiet.
##Unvote
##Vote OriginalName
Literally no reason, just switches. Lynching sinani gives PLENTY of information while lynching ON doesn't and palmar's been going on about how "this will give us plenty of information" etc the entire game.
There was also prplhz who started expressing doubts about lynching sinani towards the end but he doesn't seem as scummy as the palmar/mataza duo.
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Mm just woke up.
As worried as I am by the lurkers, I'm getting a huge town vibe from dementrio. In fact, he's probably the most townlike so far. I also haven't seen varpulis act scummy in any way. I mean he was swinging his votes on a bunch of people for pressure but to me that just looks like a very eager townie trying to catch scum. Which isn't a bad thing in any way.
Mataza. I already said not to take my conspiracy theory seriously yet, but you do seem just about as odd as palmar. You pounce on him the moment he uses meta against you, yet you use meta against steff. It's not a huge thing but it does strike me as a little odd, I've already said you shouldn't use meta because it'll end up confusing you more than it'll help. I could see an alliance between you and steff but it might just be me wanting it to be there (if you know what I mean), surely you wouldn't make it that obvious if you and steff really were scum.
As for palmar, after my refreshing sleep (I haven't slept properly since MLG) I'm going to back off him a little. I still think he'd make a great check but after reading his posts again, I can see him as some sort of deluded townie, almost like a real village idiot and nothing more. Of course, this doesn't completely drop him off my scumdar but my focus is set on mataza now.
The only 2 posts mataza has made since the night post are both wishy washy. He basically says everyone in his post is either town or undecided. The only person he really does accuse is me, which is a clear OMGUS vote that would be safe for scum to make. It seems as if he's just an over-secure scum that wants to make sure he's not ringing the wrong bells but wants to get rid of opposition. I'm getting pretty huge scum vibes from this guy.
So my DT checklist would be mataza then palmar. If you want to check me that's okay too but I think checking varpulis or kavdragon would be a waste since they really don't seem scummy at all.
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On June 07 2011 08:24 stefftastiq wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay.
prplhz
Palmar
Mataza
stefftastiq
OriginalName
You're all on my huge FoS list if Sinani flips non-red. I can't think of any reason why you all have such a strong opinion about lynching him. His actions are very non-scummy. If he had mafia friends I'd assume they'd try to change discussion to something else other than lynching him. Basically makes half the players <.<
Also, Varpulis jumping around with his voting pattern, basically accusing everyone. Don't know what to make of that, just noting it.
As for my vote, I'm basically defending Sinani now and I agree with Varpulis' plan. Also:
Just saying, he was an aybsmal townie in the first place. It's not a huge loss in the end.
##Vote OriginalName @youngminii you obviously copied this votelist from GM's post - but WHY did you remove unichans name from the vote list? he had a vote sinani as well - it it was not on the top of the list nor on the bottom.... so cant really blame it from a bad copy/paste or something. Why werent you suspicious about unichan?
Actually the names were all the people that were voting Sinani.
I absolutely 100% support Kavdragon's post against OriginalName. Not only is his analysis spot on, the information that we get from lynching him is amazing. If he ends up flipping scum, then based on the votes from day 1, we can easily narrow down the remaining scum. In fact, if OriginalName ISN'T scum then all we have to do is step back and re-evaluate everyone. That sounds confusing but I'll explain.
At the end of Day 1, it had essentially become Sinani V OriginalName plus a few ragtag votes (almost all of which were by people under the radar) among other people. There were some people that switched from Sinani to ON that could be regarded scummy but that's for another discussion.
Right now we know that Sinani was town. In fact, the fact that he was a vet made him an extremely important target for the mafia to snipe during the day. As such, it leads me to believe that at least 2-3 people that had originally (before moving over to ON) voted for Sinani were indeed scum. As more and more townies jumped on the bandwagon, the scum felt relatively safe. Then an opposing bandwagon started on ON. If ON is scum, then the vote on Sinani became even more important, as Sinani was the only other option. If ON is scum, then everyone on the Sinani bandwagon becomes even more suspicious than they are now, to the point where they become lynchable/vigi targets (imo). This is actually the most likely scenario, since mataza/palmar are both on my scumdar and steff/prplhz are both pretty scummy too.
Now if ON is actually a townie, then this means that mafia didn't actually have to do anything really for Day 1. I mean, they COULD have started the Sinani bandwagon so it doesn't really clear them. But if ON is town, then why would the people that voted for ON have even bothered? Why would I go for ON if he's just going to end up town? The bottom line is that there is no reason for myself or anyone else that went for ON (originally) to risk ourselves when we have a perfectly valid Sinani lynch. If ON ends up townie, it most likely means that the people with ragtag votes on other people could very well be mafia just laughing as town kills each other. This is actually the most unlikely outcome, but it's still a possibility.
So basically, ON is almost definitely mafia, but if he's not we still gain a ton of valuable information.
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With the day post and everything, here's my newest conspiracy theory.
+ Show Spoiler [Theory #2] +OriginalName, unichan and either prplhz/stefftastic. Again for the sake of being absolute, I'll go with prplhz. ON and unichan have completely avoided each other (not a single word uttered to or about each other). This is common between scum during the early game so as to not establish any connection between each other (ironic). They were both against Sinani and both without any good reason ie. pure bandwagoning.
Prplhz is a special case, he's the one that started the Sinani bandwagon. Now, scum don't usually start bandwagons since it usually attracts attention when the guy eventually flips green/blue, but I don't think he knew that it would become the actual lynch and that he was just making a few little accusations to appear active. Now I know you don't agree but the reasons against Sinani were ridiculous and should not have resulted in his lynch, but I do agree that his reaction to the pressure was sub-par. In any case, Prplhz realises that the lynch that he started is going to go through and does a last minute "I'm not sure about this vote.." dance, but never actually changes his vote since the only other lynch candidate is him scummate ON.
Grain of salt.
This also means that I'm completely backing off Palmar as I find his day 1 actions weird (not really scummy not really townie) considering Mataza is town. I think his vote switch from Sinani to ON might have been genuine.
##Vote OriginalName
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Funny how if we actually went through with the plan we wouldn't have lost our vet, but that's just derailment and I won't discuss that.
Kav, don't flame him like that during the game. Leave that for endgame discussion.
At this point, anyone that's not voting for ON will obviously be put under scrutiny if he flips red.
@Dementrio: Yes I've backed off Palmar quite a bit, steff/unichan/prplhz are all scum candidates too. My gut tells me steff is just an overeager town, but that could apply to both the others too.
@Prplhz: Your pressure against Varpulis is stupid. None of those reasons are scumworthy and you are guilty of the last line of reasoning yourself. I kind of don't like how you're just completely avoiding voting for ON, but I mean if you both really were scum you'd probably be trying to lynch an actual lynch candidate instead of randomly pressuring Varpulis.
What vexes me right now is that other than ON, the highest number of votes on anyone is 1. Either scum knows ON is done for and is bussing him or they're extremely uncoordinated. I don't like how unichan and JeeJee are abstaining their votes until later, they could be just waiting until the last moment in case another lynch candidate pops up. I'm going to say JeeJee's doing this out of bad play, and unichan is the more suspicious one.
Note: Palmar has posted contentless content again for the past few posts. Keep an eye on him.
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By the way
Kavdragon is very good at this game, IF ON flips green/blue can i ask the detective to check him? I'm sure Kav will agree to this if he's not scum. Thanks.
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On June 08 2011 10:40 Varpulis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 10:32 stefftastiq wrote:
right now i think the scum is
youngminii
Varpulis
OriginalName
All three of you seem to avoid yourself as a subject - and rather try to push for votes at other players. Why should I defend myself unnecessarily against bad arguments when I'm not even up for a lynch? My time is better spent finding scum than self reflecting.
This is exactly why I haven't been responding to steff.
I'm sorry man but the arguments just don't make sense. If you pressure someone, you really do have to make it real pressure. You listed some reasons against me and then moved on. If I were scum, I could just ignore you and your accusations and be safe because you would just move on to someone else. I never felt pressured by your 'pressure' at any point during this game. I don't think you're scum though.
ON, as someone who's slated to be lynched, I feel as if your methods are a little off putting. Why are you putting on heat against Palmar when you should be defending yourself? You kind of just ignored the accusations put against you and went straight for Palmar. Perhaps you're scum and you've given up and you're trying to confuse us before you die by creating/severing a connection between you and Palmar. Perhaps you're town and you genuinely think Palmar is scum.
Defend yourself, or you will be lynched.
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You're absolutely right JeeJee, I don't disagree with your vote against Kav. Personally however, I think it is a misguided attempt at trying to find scum just because you think ON's lynch isn't justified.
I'm still of the belief that ON's lynch will give us more information than lynching anyone else can. I also think he's the most scummy in the town right now. If he flips green, I promise I'll support you in getting some answers from Kav.
I never said "lol get some coaching" was a valid response, in fact I told Kav not to say that type of stuff in game because it doesn't contribute anything towards scumhunting and just makes you look weaker to the newcomers when a more experienced player says it.
I'm the only voice against this wagon -- shouldn't that tell you something? Either I'm the most obvious mafia in existence, taking on a huge risk to save my scumbuddy, or I'm using my head
This may very well be true, but there is another option. Misguided town. If ON flips red I won't be blaming you because you do have the right intentions.
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On June 09 2011 11:26 Kavdragon wrote:
GAH. I had to make dinner, then go help Aidnai pushstart his car and just got back.
Son of a gun. I'm sorry OriginalName, I didn't act fast enough. Really, though you do need to work on your game.
Ok, so night actions:
Medic: JeeJee. I think that he should have protection so much more than anyone else that I'm not even going to put anyone else on this list. Mafia wouldn't have defended OriginalName like that. JeeJee actually tried to keep him alive, Mafia would have tried to be on the right side, but let it happen.
DT: Check Unichan, YoungMinii, (If you think that I'm suspicious enough to deserve a check then me, but only do so if you think I'm scum)
Vig: I don't have a strong enough read on anyone to suggest a vig shot, but one may emerge through analysis of the voting/actions surrounding the lynch.
Absolutely not.
DT, check Kavdragon. You start your 100% scum argument against ON and then you bitch out at the end even though you and I both know he was the best candidate. I have very little doubt that you are scum because you are the only person in this game that could pull off what you did AND get away with it.
I urge you DT, check Kavdragon. If he really is scum then we WILL lose which is exactly why we need confirmation of Kav's alignment. Not many people in town will listen to me or unichan, so whether or not we are scum will not affect town as much as it will if Kav is scum.
Right now it is 6v3. Tomorrow it will be 5v3 unless Doc gets it right. If we mislynch again, that's game. I beg you to check Kav or he will make tomorrow a very bad day.
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DO NOT SHOOT DEMENTRIO.
If anything, shoot Kav. That's the most scummy thing I've seen. Kav is good enough of a player to know that dementrio is as town as you can get. DT PLEASE check Kav as I'm almost certain that he's scum and vig don't shoot tonight, you have tomorrow night to shoot when things are clearer. Shooting tonight is just silly.
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On June 10 2011 05:38 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:08 youngminii wrote:
DO NOT SHOOT DEMENTRIO.
If anything, shoot Kav. That's the most scummy thing I've seen. Kav is good enough of a player to know that dementrio is as town as you can get. DT PLEASE check Kav as I'm almost certain that he's scum and vig don't shoot tonight, you have tomorrow night to shoot when things are clearer. Shooting tonight is just silly. Lol, why do you care so much? If it's that obvious that Dementrio is town, why do you feel the need to defend him? Also don't shoot tonight? LOL? if someone dies tonight, we will be at lylo tomorrow. If two people die tonight, we will be at lylo. There will not be another night for the vig to shoot, unless medic protects the person who is targeted by mafia.
I hope vig doesn't actually take what Kav is saying seriously. If he's not scum, he's got to be the worst townie I have ever seen, worse than JeeJee.
Right now it is 6v3. Tomorrow it will be 5v3. When we lynch someone it becomes 4v3. There is another night to shoot someone.
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+ Show Spoiler [Theory #3] +3 of the following are scum: Palmar/Varpulis/Unichan/Kavdragon
I am more certain of this then I am with the previous conspiracy theories, so much so that I don't call this a conspiracy theory, rather a very real accusation.
The fact that Kav thinks he can just switch at the last moment from ON to Unichan goes against his exact line of reasoning against the people he 'scumhunted'. From Day 1 he has made HORRIBLE choices from town's point of view but could be explained if you view him as scum. These include a vote against sinani even though sinani literally had no reason to be lynched. Taking control of Day 2 and leading the way against ON, only to completely switch at the lats minute for a very silly reason. And then the illogical reasoning on Night 2. The DT must check him otherwise we have a potentially lost game as Kav is more than able to convince 1 or 2 townies to vote in his way, which is all he'll need at lylo. He lies low Day 1 then comes out on Day 2 to lead everyone after being called out for lurking.
Varpulis is lying low. If one takes into consideration that Kav is scum (obviously an assumption is being made here, which is why I want a DT check on him), then Varpulis is an interesting name to pop up. He flies completely under the radar and Kav, in his ever so powerful scumhunting craze, doesn't see this? Varpulis lurks and Kav just ignores it, making as little reference to Varpulis as possible.
Palmar's play has been wishy washy all game, but he has been basically following Kav's every move. He doesn't question, he doesn't falter, he just gives shoddy reasoning and jumps on whatever bandwagon Kav has created.
Unichan is just flying waaaaaay under the radar and worries me a little.
In case you didn't read the spoiler, this is my list of scum. I am almost dead certain that all the scum come from this list:
Kavdragon
Varpulis
Palmar
Unichan
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EPT
