EPTwhoever I get to assign a role to has something nice coming their way ^_^
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GMarshal
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whoever I get to assign a role to has something nice coming their way ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 29 2011 03:05 chaos13 wrote: So we are sent the name of a player, and then we give them a role. Wouldn't this make mafia way overpowered, as they would know both the alignment and role of a few players? I think it would work better if we each just submitted a role and they were randomly assigned to players. booo, thats not nearly as much fun though! I have quite a few cool ideas that are specific to certain players, like if I get bum he gets a specific role, if i get tnkted he gets a specific role too, etc. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 29 2011 03:13 Kenpachi wrote: you will be insanely confused. a boot camp game for newbies is starting soon though! Yep, Surprisingly normal minimafia 2 is going to end in the next 48 hours and then we start the next one, so any new players can jump into that, as the name states is normal, so its a chance to learn how the game works. ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 29 2011 13:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright decon throw me in if there's room. I vote we auto lynch GM day one  But I'm an obvious townie! Really I promise! | ||
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On May 30 2011 06:02 Kenpachi wrote: I gave a fair role! Vanilla Townie ? | ||
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On May 30 2011 06:13 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Just to make it clear, cycle changes are at 6:00 KST, as in 12 minutes ago, right? That's 10 PM BST? Just making sure, because I've already screwed up time conversions from Europe in one of your games before :p you are off by an hour I think, its at 5 KST which is 9PM BST which is what I found inside the [time] function when I quoted his post. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 30 2011 04:03 deconduo wrote: Who you are picking for has been sent out, please send me the role picks before 20:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow, thanks. Remember that the person you are picking for shouldn't know that you are the one picking their role, so please don't announce/hint it in the thread before the game starts. Was what I was looking at wiggles... I just realized thats not the start/end of cycles though, just when roles are due. My bad then ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 04:58 Varpulis wrote: role and alignment recieved. Decon still hasn't told me where the quicktopic is though... Number one scum tell making "jokes" about your alignment! #1 scumspect Varp! | ||
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GMarshal
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Also lets try to avoid a claim this early in the game, yes? | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 05:27 Kurumi wrote: Are You trying to help Your Mafia buddy or trying not to waste a lynch? Both are quite smart. Ah, good, discussion. I'm saying to ignore information that is useless to us at this point. I'm probably going to be repeating this, a lot, but role =/= alignment, its all about how you act, and how you use your role, not about what role you have. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 05:36 sandroba wrote: Can you guys read??????? I'm not saying to claim the fucking role, just let us know what player you designed the role for, not the actual role!!!! How does this help mafia? Because there is a strong meta sand, it can hint at who has the best roles. Let me ask it this way. How does this plan of yours help the town, exactly? | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 05:35 Palmar wrote: #Fistpound: GMarshal Sure thing bro #Fistpound: Palmar | ||
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On May 31 2011 05:53 Mataza wrote: By the way. How would our host balance? If there are no KP roles(Since mafia has only 1 KP in a 30 player game), it means to me that we either have neutrals filled in to balance the game out. Is that a possibility, or did our fine town fill the roster with kp? Discussing balance at this point is a waste of time and breath, we don't know how the game is balanced, just trust that it is. Discussing that allows the mafia to blend in with baseless speculation. Instead of that let me ask you a question, which of the players in this game is the scariest as mafia in your opinion? | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 05:59 sandroba wrote: EBWODP: That should have read we policy lynch ANYONE who claims without valuable information or lies about their role. So, kind of what happened to tnkted when he claimed bulletproof in Sleeper Cell. I like LAL, but we do *not* policy lynch as policy lynches keep us from gaining valuable information. We policy vigi shot. So if someone lies we just ignore them and let someone toss a kp at them at night. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: read my guide, zodiac list (which is what I proposed) is a good day 1 start. Past that you progress into a game with scum hunting. It merely provides a point in which town can organize itself and force the mafia into a situation where they make early mistakes. Agreed, zodiac lists are a strong start for the town. So far the only person I can suggest be added to that list is BC I'll say this now too, keep your lynch suspects for day 1 down to 2-3, lets not repeat the mistakes we made in PYPI where everyone was accusing everyone of being mafia day 1. | ||
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On May 31 2011 06:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Can someone explain the Zodiac list to me? Is it just a list of valuable town players, and expendable scum? Its a list of player who are valuable to the town based on both meta and their ingame behavior, its where the medics and dts should be focusing their actions, as those are the hardest players to analyze. | ||
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Dear god, thats quite a post restriction you have going on there Amber. Unless I'm wrong and you are faking. Are you able to talk normaly? | ||
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Ok, lets assume you are telling the truth and not pulling a BM (in penalty mafia he faked a pr for most of a day). Can you post which expressions, exactly, you are limited to? | ||
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do you a.) growl at lies? b.) growl at mafia members? c.) none of the above Wag your tail if a. Whine if b. bark if c. | ||
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On May 31 2011 06:24 Node wrote: I have no idea what fist-pounding does, but it looks like Palmar also has a posting restriction and must talk like a "bro". I went for it since I figure worst-case scenario I die and then everyone lynches Palmar for killing me. Its not cool to leave a bro hanging, plus I'm curious as to what possible consequences fistpounding someone might have. Oh and I noticed amber is limited to an eight character set. on the bright side I came up with a way for him to communicate with us easily we are going to be using morse code Amber *woof* = dot *grrrr...* = line *growls* = space If you can't do that bark three times please. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 06:31 redFF wrote: ok so we can conclude that prp created either mine or mataza's role. No, he is calling for a reduction in spam, which is a good thing. Whining is not helping us catch scum. So, who so far do you think should go on the zodiac list redFF? | ||
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On May 31 2011 06:34 Varpulis wrote: So hiro has it right. write down those meanings, folks! We'll need to figure the rest out eventually, I'd imagine. I like my morse code idea better, but if its not feasible then its not feasible. I propose we leave the topic of amber and move on to discussing the zodiac list, or doing something that contributes to catching scum really. | ||
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Who does everyone think is most likely to be town. from their posts alone? Who hasn't posted yet who you would have expected to post? | ||
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On May 31 2011 08:13 redFF wrote: I know this was said jokingly but i think GM might have a point. I don't think I would make a joke like that as town. Could be nothing i guess. It was said half seriously, its a pretty common scumtell that mafia make jokes about being scum, since "no scum would do that" On lists. You people are doing it wrong, these lists are supposed to be a point of discussion, just posting names is easy. All lists need to include *reasons*. "BC is on my list because he is pro-town" is not an acceptable statement. "BC is on my list because he has tried to keep town discussion focused and promoted a good environment for scum hunting" is a good reason. The point of this list is to provide a focal point for discussion. For example, all the people who said they think bum is town. Why do you think this? Which posts of his indicate his 'towniness' lists without reasons are just dead words | ||
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On May 31 2011 08:37 Torte de Lini wrote: Wow, this game is so damn utterly fast and confusing. Does it tone down after Day 1? I hate the idea of not being to edit, so I'll just ask all my questions in one basket.
1.) Usually but not always. I did warn you that things move fast 2.) Day1 lynches usually degenerate into lynching inactives, however with good scumhunting its sometimes possibly to pin down and lynch mafia 3.) Things that help us find scum. Basically limit yourself to discussing things that force you to commit to and opinion on someone. For example, if you say you really think _____ is town and defend them heavaly for three days and then they flip mafia, well then we have a lead. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 10:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Also, FoS on Mataza, Redff, and hiro protagonist. For what reason? Names and lists without reasons are worthless. What did they do to merit a FoS that say, Palmar has not? | ||
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GMarshal
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Who do you think looks scummiest right now and why? | ||
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GMarshal
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Let me put this out on the table now, role discussion is useless at this point, its not helping us find scum and its not moving us forward. So cut it out. Now if not sooner. | ||
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On May 31 2011 11:11 deskscaress wrote: i want to correct this, sorry. "ValpuriS" instead of Valpuris also +1 to everything that chaos reiterated and explained better than i did. redFF is super scummy to me right now ValpuriS is Valpuris's name before he got a namechange, those of us who played with him in the past are used to the capital S, but the correct form is now without it, so don't worry too much about it. | ||
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GMarshal
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On May 31 2011 22:19 chaos13 wrote: GMarshal, please grace us with your thoughts on varpulis and kitaman27. Do you think they are both scum, just one of them, or none? Why? Between the two, who appears to be more scummy, and why? While you're at it, why don't you tell me why you have consistently harassed people to start contributing without doing so yourself? Also why you mentioned a few times why zodiac lists and the type were useless without reasoning behind the names when you haven't actually given your own thoughts on anyone at all so far. This is your biggest piece of analysis so far: Your posting stance is noncommittal. Your vote commits a lot. What's going on here? The first few questions I asked on varpulis and kita will be a perfect opportunity to start contributing some more btw. Don't forget to answer them. I wake up and this is the first thing I see, not bad. I haven't posted a zodiac list because I don't have enough to go on yet. I'm not going to write a list of people I perceive as vets, that would be hypocritical of me, I already pointed out that this serves no purpose, its not a bad idea to have three or four lists to discuss but having everyone post a list is a waste of our time. I have been contributing, what I haven't been doing is throwing around useless FoS without real support, I've been asking questions in an attempt to foster discussion. When I ask a question I myself cannot answer it, as it allows the person being asked the question to say "oh yeah, I agree with what you said earlier". My vote on torte is a pressure vote. I'm getting him to contribute by threatening to kill him, I do it pretty much every game. Its the only reliable method of luring out lurkers. You want me to commit between Varp and kita? Varp isn't his confident self, but I hesitate to make any reads based on meta, as peoples playstyles change, so until he does something that is actually scummy. kita is setting off every alarm in my head, but I'm waiting to see how he reacts to being called out before doing anything. Between the two I would rather lynch kita over varp at the moment, simply based on the amount of attempted contribution. While we are discussing scumspects, I want to point out that Barundar has yet to do anything really, I am waiting for him to contribute. | ||
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GMarshal
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Does no one else find that strange? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 01 2011 00:19 Kurumi wrote: fine,then I will vote for the scummiest person in my opinion sup bum ##vote bumatlarge Care to explain what about him makes him scummy? | ||
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GMarshal
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I think we might agree to disagree on this one, but I think policy is a good thing. | ||
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@People focusing on redFF's claim. Ignore the claim itself and focus on the reasoning behind it, remember if he is telling the truth about his role or lying is irrelevant. Oh, since it seems like I'm not going to get much from torte ##Unvote ##Vote: Barundar Barundar has all of one post. This is not an acceptable level of contribution. @Kenpachi, you said that its too early to be pressuring inactives/lurkers. Its never to early to kill lurkers. If you dont deal with them early you have to deal with them later. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 01 2011 07:35 Mataza wrote: tl;du: Your plan prevents something from happening that won´t happen unless your plan was done already. You say w/out your plan mafia can claim any role they want. But they can´t unless they somehow find out who created their roles. And right now your plan reveals exactly that. We are done discussing a plan that will not be put into place. Both sides have been pretty clearly laid out. Instead answer these questions. 1.) If you were a vigilante who would you shoot tonight 2.) if you were a kingmaker who would you make king tomorrow 3.) what is your favorite colour 4.) Of all the players with more than ten posts in the game at the moment, which seem the scummiest? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote:GMarshal | ||
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Ok, voting for BC then, as I don't see a bandwagon forming on him in less than five hours. ##Unvote ##Vote: BloodyC0bler | ||
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Does no one doubt bum's SK claim? I know I do, its pretty much the only claim that would let him live if he were mafia. Resurrecting BC would be great. Beware of busdrivers and similar roles however. Thats pretty much all the time I have right now, gargantuan post coming tomorrow if i'm still alive, not coming if I'm dead. | ||
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Also it looks like half the town died, holly hell. | ||
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As cult leader I can sacrifice a member of the cult at night instead of recruiting someone to be a part of the circle, last night I attempted to recruit Palmar, however I was unable to recruit anyone as I was roleblocked. Now that that is all said, gargantuan post coming soon, with my impressions and thoughts on every remaining player in the game, again sorry for my extended absence, but I had a lot of work to do and not much time to do it. Since someone mentioned that I might be under the effect of a posting restriction I am not | ||
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GMarshal
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GMarshal's List of Opinions (Part 1)
Karshe- I'm getting noob town reads from him, he has a couple posts where he tries to contribute, notably his accusation of BC, but other than that he seems to be trying to give opinions in his scant posts. He needs to post more higher quality posts before I can commit to a certain read of him, but I'm interested to see his thoughts. Mr. Wiggles- on the wrong side of a dt check, sorry but theres no getting out of a lynch here, it happens. If you are town and a miller or something I profusely apologize, but we always lynch on the words of a dead dt. Palmar- giving me town vibes so far, he is commited to an opinion, shot the mole and is firm in his convictions. The only scary thing is that he is playing this much like he played SNMMII where he was scum, so far he has done nothing to make me suspect him of being mafia and shooting the mole, which is an excellent mafia tool, makes me think he is more likely than not to be town Eternalmisfit- he seems to refuse to commit to accusations, at all. this post really stands out to me as he gives plenty of opinions, but fails to accuse anyone, instead he casts doubt on everyone, thats the kind of play I would expect to see from mafia trying to sow dissent. This post is a clear example of "leading" without contributing, role action lists need specific names and reasons rather than "follow this guy's list" chaos13- I'm not sure what to make of this guy, he generally fails to contribute, his major focus is calling redFF and Amber scum. I think Amber is probably town, as he seems to be trying to be of use despite his rather large limitations, so accusations against me make look at the accuser. He then accuses me with a case that is as solid as a paper mache wall. His attempts at focusing the town on a few lynch targets seems pro-town to me as it avoids the issue with all the votes being terribly split. His shouting match with Karshe also serves no purpose and hinders the town, although its not necessarily a mafia behavior as townies do this all the time too. This post suggests town to me, and posts from that point forward seem to scream green to me, in particular his frustration at the lack of an argument against him reminds me of my frustration at gryffindor (BM) in XXXVII where he consistently called me scum without an argument. chaos13's appeal to having defended townies is somewhat suspicious to me as well, scum defend townies as happily as town do. Right now I'm not ready to commit to his alignment either way, I'm willing to listen to arguments from both sides however. kitaman27- mostly lurking, however he gives enough opinions that I'm leaning more town than scum on him. Kenpachi- chaotic as usual, not contributing as usual, only "contribution" is the fact that he wants to lynch wiggles. You can stay for a while I guess, I just want a dt on you sooner rather than later if possible. Tackster- hardcore lurking, no way for me to give a real opinion, his role claim makes me think WTF. I'd DT him simply to avoid having to waste any time/attention on him at this point tnkted- you know what irks me? When someone is convinced of their own immortality and feels like for that reason they don't have to contribute. However tnkted does commit to one thing, tunneling sinani206, other than that he commits to practically nothing. He has more than some other players, so I'm willing to say he is green for now. Good possible DT check, especially since he defends tackster. hiro protagonist- calls node scum with weak arguments, derails the town with focus on Amber, however after that he picks up his game considerably, his day 2 posts are odd, but I'm attributing that to him having role information we don't and attempting to entrap scum. So far I feel he is green, but I'm willing to rethink that. Ok, this is part one of my list of opinions, I'll finish the rest of the remaining players after I get back from classes. | ||
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GMarshal
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##Vote: Mr.Wiggles | ||
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Working on finishing my gargantuan post btw, I'm going to wait till I get home at 7:00 so I have time to reread the thread again before posting it though. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 05 2011 07:06 Kurumi wrote: I am shooting Jackal,U mad town? In that case I have to sacrifice you tonight. Not having a PM buddy is going to make me sad -__- | ||
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On June 06 2011 06:05 deconduo wrote: Missing a load of night actions. What are people doing. I guess you have no choice, just PM what their powers are, and I'll determine the actions! | ||
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GMarshal
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##Vote: Bumatlarge Die scum. | ||
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On June 06 2011 06:39 Mig wrote: gmarsh why didn't you kill Kurumi? I did. Either his vest absorbed it, or he activated trap mage and wasn't roleblocked. I'll try again tonight. | ||
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On June 06 2011 06:45 Mataza wrote: Also town, stop fucking shoot people at random.  Townplay consists of lynching people, not shooting semirandomly at night.  After Kurumi and Bum are taken care of, I´ve got a new proposal for you, though.  Kill everyone who has killing power.  No. We kill scum, not townies with KP. How are you going to determine who has KP if they don't claim anyway? | ||
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On June 06 2011 07:30 Kenpachi wrote: you are dead. Dont lynch Bum. Town needs him. Mafia got a free win this game thanks to the mass of KP roles given out to those who care incapable of using them. Why are we not lynching bum? He is clearly lying, kurumi is almost 100% guaranteed to be the SK, and when he was rbed he was still able to shoot. Bum claims he didn't shoot n1 because he was rbed. One of them is lying. Its most likely not kurumi. Hence we lynch bum. | ||
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On June 06 2011 07:37 sinani206 wrote: Also, I trust you Palmar. I acknowledge that you made a mistake. #fistpound Palmar DON'T FISTPOUND PALMAR The mafia has only 1 kp that we know of. If we *stop* having our vigis shoot townies we can actually win, if we continue shooting townies then we don't stand a chance in hell of winning this game. | ||
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On June 06 2011 10:32 Jackal58 wrote: Sucks ass doesn't it.  Oh and don't get me wrong Bum I do want to lynch you. Just not yet. Well maybe I do. Who did you shoot last night and why????? Oh ya it sucks ass. Who do you want to lynch instead Jackal? I'm pretty sure we've confirmed bum is scum... | ||
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On June 06 2011 11:15 Jackal58 wrote: Well if Bum told the truth about his role he is bullet proof regardless of his alignment. If he told the truth about his alignment he's not scum. I have seen several posts claiming Either Kurumi or Bum is lying. But nobody has said what specifically that lie is. If it's about alignment giving Bums role to scum way imba. If it's about being roleblocked Meapak has confirmed TdL has the ability to role block a number of people at once. I'm not defending Bum. I know it looks like that but I'm not. I really think Palmar is the more dangerous of the two. The lying situation is as follows Day 2 both Kurumi and Bum claimed to be serial killers and to have been roleblocked, Kurumi said he shot sandroba while roleblocked, while bum claimed to be unable to shoot, hence one of them is lying, I think it was bum covering for his lack of serial killer kp. This is why I think bum is scum | ||
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Oh well. | ||
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On June 06 2011 12:19 Cthsazsa wrote: Kurumi, now is the appropriate time for you to talk!! Did you get shot at last night? Kurumi is on European time, so he won't be around till tomorrow morning. He hasn't talked to me since I tried to sacrifice him, so I have no information as far as that goes. Oh and apparently my sacrifice failed due to a mysterious disturbance in the force although I was not role blocked. I think that means that Kurumi activated his trap mage ability, | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 06 2011 12:28 Cthsazsa wrote: GM, you're standard SK takes 2 KP to die and only has 2 bullets. Bum is a special case, in that his role allows him to shoot every night. TDL (I'm sure) was responsible for all the RBing, but Kurumi was able to shoot. Why? Because his alignment granted him 2 bullets. Not his role. Bum is allowed to kill for an infinite number of nights, because his role allows him too. Neither of them were lying. Come on GMarshall, that wasn't hard to figure out at all. GM what do you think about Palmar? I think he is a townie who fucked up. He killed a mole N1, which to me is a pretty good indicator that he is town. I very much doubt mafia would kill one of their own. I'll grant you that killing chaos was a *stupid* choice to kill our tracker, when it was pretty clear who it was, but I think that if he were scum he would have claimed a safer kill. As far as bum goes, has he roleclaimed? If so, around what page was it? Also if he had both KP from his role and his alignment wouldn't he use the ones from his alignment when his role abilities were rbed? | ||
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GMarshal
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Let me re-read palmar, and see what else I can come up with. I was almost certain bum was scum | ||
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I'll reread the thread and rethink my assumptions tomorrow. | ||
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I'm not buying Bums claim. I think its a fakeclaim. No serial killer in his right mind would *ever* claim, especially not one as experienced as bum. The only reason bum would claim that is if he thought it would buy him a longer life expectancy. As far as being roleblocked, I'm not buying that either. From a balance perspective rb's either block serial killer KP or they don't. Anything else is a gimmick. Bum is lying to save his ass and is desperate to survive today for some unknown reason. I'm not going to let him if I can help it. | ||
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On June 06 2011 21:58 stefftastiq wrote: @GMarshal Bums role did accidently get spoiled when batman got killed - the post daypost said so :< but hes name got removed afterwards... The name of the role got spoiled, as for the powers, for all we know he is a PGO or a time traveling DT that shoots lasers out of his eyes. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that if he were *really* a serial killer he would have claimed assassin, not serial killer, and still included the "immunity to night kills" bit to avoid getting shot. The only people who would ever claim serial killer are mafia afraid of being vigied or dted. Bum is scum. | ||
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On June 06 2011 22:27 Jackal58 wrote: You might be right and I am not opposed to a Bum lynch. But I still believe Palmar to be the more dangerous of the two. Afaik Bum hasn't killed anybody yet.  :Fair enough. I'm going after the person I'm convinced is scum, you can go after Palmar if you wish, having re-read the thread I'm still not convinced he is scum. His flip should prove interesting if you can leverage enough votes to get him lynched though... | ||
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GMarshal
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and sorry about killing you -__- | ||
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GMarshal
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KILL SCUMATLARGE! | ||
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GMarshal
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We have three lynch candidates we need to discuss, Scumatlarge, Palmar and Torte. People voting for bum other than myself, give reasons. People who have yet to vote, for who are you voting? Those who have said that torte is scum (Rean, Kurumi and RedFF) how did you come to that conclusion? | ||
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GMarshal
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Sup pandian? Are you actually playing? If so are you ready to claim imba list checking, mass confirming, lie detecting, time traveling, panda loving, DT, jack of all trades? | ||
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On June 07 2011 03:13 Cthsazsa wrote: Hey Sinani, stop lurking plz. Just because your death might possibly resurrect BC doesn't mean jack shit. Your role still hasn't been confirmed. For all we know you could be lying. Step up the activity and start contributing. Hey tnkted, stop lurking plz. Just because you're unlynchable doesn't mean jack shit. I'll be surprised if someone doesn't try to kill you tonight. Hey Hiro, stop lurking plz. I will be pushing for your death sometime in the near future if you keep this up. I can't believe you're lurking this much and town is okay with it. Torte being the roleblocker in no way means he is scum. Meapak even said that people who do a certain action are going to get roleblocked. I really don't think TDL has a choice on who to block. If TDL was scum, his scum team would know how to avoid being roleblocked. Meapak thought the people getting roleblocked were suspicious. I'm not going to totally believe Meapak's suspicion (He was considering Wiggle's BS lie, after all) but it's something to look into. That said, bum claimed roleblocked and I already proved why he is capable of getting roleblocked. I'm not buying GMarshall's scum claim. Torte's role description: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186¤tpage=95#1884 I'm asking everyone who thinks TDL is the slightest bit suspicious to read that post. It is unfortunate Meapak had to die (lol DropBear), as he could of given us some really useful info today. I don't think either TDL or bum are scum. Bum is a SK, and the Scum are trying to throw us off guard by centering discussion around him. My vote is staying on Palmar. As I said before, he hasn't done anything that makes him worthy of being called Town. You are *clearly* not following the logic here, so lets imagine the situation from a scum and a sk perspective for a second shall we? 1.) You are Scumatlarge the fact that you were batmans nemesis has just been revealed and its likely that every vigi and their mother is going to target you. You need to somehow increase your life expectancy so you can at the very least force the town to waste a lynch on you. Your options are pretty limited, and since its almost certain that you aren't going to be town aligned you claim SK this serves two functions, 1.) it means you'll survive till dawn, and 2.) you can probably shove any lynch on you onto "real" mafia. While you will eventually be lynched, its cool as you can still die and win, you are really just buying time to get all your anti-town powers into play. 2.) You are the renowned mass murderer Bumatlarge , damn, the fact that you are batman's nemesis has just been exposed! Quickly you need to cover for yourself! Do you even consider claiming SK? NO YOU DON'T if you claim SK, you are *guaranteed* to be lynched at some point 100%, you can no longer win, you have essentially forfeited. NO SERIAL KILLER WOULD EVER CLAIM. If bum were really a serial killer he would have claimed assassin, or survivor, or town aligned but misunderstood, anything *but* an alignment that *guarantees* his death. There is no fucking way bum is a serial killer, no way in hell. | ||
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On June 07 2011 03:29 bumatlarge wrote: :X oh dear GM you've got something backwards in situation 2, but I'll let you think about it Oh, please do point out why in the nine hells of bator a SK would ever claim, I'm eager to hear your reasoning. | ||
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Kurumi is not a good measuring point of reasonable play. As much as I like the guy his SK claim was completely insane. | ||
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As I said Kurumi is not an example of good SK play, he essentially decided to play pro-town. The measuring stick you use to judge bum's play as third party or town, or scum is entirely different | ||
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On June 07 2011 04:42 Barundar wrote: Urgh forgive me if I don't exactly by into what you are guessing... 6KP is still a lot, if Palmar is scum we need to kill him today to reduce it. I thought you wanted to lynch torte? | ||
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On June 07 2011 11:16 tnkted wrote: Kill: Torte de Lini for fakeclaiming that he blox GM (the tracker claimed that he watched GM and didn't see anyone visit the night GM claimed he was blox) GM for fakeclaiming that he was blox PEACE Someone did block me N1, torte was tracked to me by someone AND I was roleblocked, check the day post. Dont accuse me of lying, when it isn't true, defaming me is bad play. | ||
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I am now much more concerned about him being scum, I didn't believe it because I didn't find his posts all that scummy, but that really sheds new light on the whole situation... Rereading now, damnit. Next person to lie I induct into my PM circle and sacrifice to the gods of mafia, this isn't making my job any easier. | ||
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On June 07 2011 17:41 Palmar wrote: Also yeah, tnkted is clearly wrong on the whole GMarshal thing. We have it confirmed that Torte de Lini roleblocked GMarshal. If everything goes well, we'll be rid of bumatlarge, torte de lini and kurumi tomorrow. It should be enough to push us ahead in the fight. You lied. Twice. Why should we believe that you'll shoot torte? Maybe you'll shoot someone else and claim "oh my shot was bussed" or perhaps you'll do it for our own good, much like not disclosing that you needed fistbumps to get your shot. You've lied. Twice. I'm half tempted to move from scumatlarge to lynch you, just on policy. | ||
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On June 07 2011 17:52 Rean wrote: Don't be retarded. No-one is getting lynched on policy here, and no-one is getting lynched when we have a confirmed scum to lynch. Palmar can very well be scum, and if Torte de Lini survives the night he's almost certainly next. He is lying. He lied to secure himself a KP, I can think of no good reason why he would lie to us to get his hands on a KP unless he was desperate to use it, the only reason he would be desperate to use it is if he were scum. I'm leaning more away from him being town the more I look at him. | ||
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For now I'm sticking with bum, but you are making me queasy Palmar. | ||
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On June 07 2011 20:02 Mataza wrote: GMarshal Can kill members of his circle. He has been quite dodgy as a player. Right now, his killpower is bound on killing Kurumi again and again until Kurumi stops or is forced to stop. If he is ever free to decide again, everyone in his PM circle should claim for their own safety, as he can only kill those. Right now he has Jackal, Bum and Kurumi as of my knowledge in his circle. Hate to disappoint, I only have Kurumi in my circle. Plus my kills are broadcaster as "the mysterious cult leader killed _____" so if I go on a killing spree its going to be very, very blatant (mind you, I'm about *this* close to going into GM rage mode at this point). Also LOL at Palmar claiming assassin. I dont buy it. Now I know you are scum, you claimed assassin to buy another night for yourself, so you can kill more townies, you are just banking on there not actually being any assassins in the game. Plus *even if* you are telling the truth, your alliance with the town is *worthless* as we cannot enforce anything we ask you to do, as if you really are an assassin (which you aren't by the way) then lynching you to "enforce" our demands is an utter waste. You are just desperate to survive just one more night, so you can deal maximum damage to the town. Wonderful strategy, at this point I'm convinced you are scum, and so is bum, you are just busing him because his night ability isn't as valuable, if I'm not mistaken. However it seems like the town is content to let you scooch by. Whoever the bomb placing guy is, do you mind strapping one around his neck? For when he isn't dead tomorrow, I mean. | ||
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Yeah this whole situation is making every single one of my scumsenses tingle. | ||
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On June 08 2011 01:33 Kurumi wrote: Palmar grants second kp to mafia team,bum has no power. Who do You do You think we should lynch,GM? Yeah, I'm switching over to Palmar. Bomstrapping guy, can you slap one around bums neck tonight? For me? ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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On June 08 2011 01:37 Palmar wrote: Cool, well I'd rather not get bombed, but I guess that's my fate for now. At least I've spared the town using bad lynch against me instead of killing scumatlarge. The only thing that's still broken in your analysis is the same thing all the people accusing me of being mafia have: Why would I claim the chaos13 kill if I was scum? The lynch is the town's strongest weapon. The mafia already knew that bum would be under pressure. What kind of an idiot plan would have one of their own randomly claim the chaos13 kill just to bus bum anyway. It just doesn't hold up. I'm an assassin, there are two more in the game. You claimed killing chaos13, because you are the only person with a known kp. Forestalling the question by claiming is a very nice mafia strategy, its one I tried using in PYPI. Yeah, I think you are scum. | ||
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On June 08 2011 01:48 Palmar wrote: Do it yourself. Killing me today is stupid. Are you guys honestly suggesting the mafia plan looked something like this? -> Step 1: Bus the mole, get town cred -> Step 2: Help lynch Wiggles, knowing bum is in trouble -> Step 3: Kill a cop, claim the kill, and lose every fucking gram of town cred we have -> Step 4: Claim assassin, bus Bum anyway, cause that's how I roll. -> Step 5: Get killed 4 mafia down, go us! This is not what will happen if I flip. All you will end up with is a wasted lynch, and Bumatlarge still alive. Actually its more like. Step 1: FUCK, mole is uber DT. I have to kill it! Might as well make the best of a shitty situation and get some cred. Step 2: Fuck, a red dt check. Have to bus. No choice. Step 3: I think I have enough cred to get away with killing a town DT, let me try it. Step 4: SHIT, they weren't as fucking stupid as I thought... I guess I have to bus bum as hard as humanly possible so I can still deal some damaged. Step 5: Well, it looks like they might actually get me lynched. SK claim sort of worked for my useless buddy bum, assassin would have been better though, I'm pretty sure there are no assassins in the game, let me try that. Step 6: Shoot townies at night, claim bus, mind control, or just "playing to my win condition", town can barely lynch me That sounds much more like what happened. | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:10 DropBear wrote: Still having net troubles. I haven't actually read the last like 20 pages cos it take too long for them to load . Our download quota resets tomorrow (hopefully) so will be able to read up properly then.Can someone summarise for me very quickly why Palmar is a major lynch target? I still don't trust bum. He shot chaos13. Lied about his role, twice, once to secure an extra kp, so he could shoot again tonight. Then he claimed assassin, and offered to "ally" with the town. He is scum to the core, and he is busing his buddy bum so the mafia can have an extra KP tonight. | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:15 Cthsazsa wrote: Horrible town play, called himself the greenest person here because he killed a mole (obv scum move), continuously lied, killed the only DT-type role that we know of, now claims to be an assassin (This could also be a lie, I doubt there's five 3rd parties in this game). It's either him or bum. If we don't lynch bum now, we will always be wondering if he lied about his role and we will have to waste tomorrow's lynch on him. If we don't lynch Palmar, we will kill bum, find out his alignment, and there's a huge possibility that Palmar will die tonight. If Palmar isn't killed by assassins, Karshe's bomb will get him. My vote stays on bum. Both are scum. One gives them a kp for the night, the other doesn't. I'm not going to be wondering about bum's role, I know he is scum and lied about what it is. There is no possibility Palmar will die tonight, because there are no assassins in the game! if there were three assassins one would have assuredly flipped by now with 10 or so deaths, don't you think? He is claiming assassin because he thinks he can do it safely. Why don't we lynch Palmar and bomb scumatlarge? That way we both deny the KP, get to kill bum *and* have a lynch left over for our roleblocking friend torte de lini! | ||
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When Palmar shoots yet another townie tonight we can all "ohh" and "ahh" about how it turns out he wasn't the assassin, bonus points if bums powers turn out to be something like "can, once per game, track a player" I'm done arguing with this rubbish town. You guys are getting played like the town got played in Insane 2 by Kav. Props to you Palmar, your scum play is every bit as good as it was in SNMMII. Oh, and without knowing if there were watchers or trackers in play you had no choice but to claim the chaos13 kill, its simple logic, you'd rather claim an anti-town action you think you can get away with then risk being caught by a DT. As I said, I'm done arguing, Palmar is as much of an assassin as I am the tzar of russia and as much as bum is a serial killer. | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:41 Cthsazsa wrote: Bum is just as capable killing someone tonight as Palmar is. Then where is his kill? He is scum. Why hasn't he been using his second kp in the service of the mafia. HE LIED ABOUT HIS ROLE. HE IS SCUM, AND HAS NO COMPUNCTIONS ABOUT LYING! | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:48 Rean wrote: People can choose, bomb/shoot Torte de Lini or Palmar. Both are a good use of a shot because both are anti-town.  : We lynch Bumatlarge.Why? Why do you want to lynch the guy who may or may not have a kp and is anti town over the guy who is anti-town and has a kp? dsjdsakdsjkdsfjk Why do you people have difficulty grasping this? I've explained it in small words. Ok, you know what? Fine, if the town is going to play crappy as hell so can I. I am declaring GM's unilateral martial law. I am going to begin inducting people who are playing notably crappy into my circle and executing them. This measure is to encourage people to think. I'm done persuading people of things, I talk with my guns now. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/118/d/7/death__the_grim_rider_by_scarypet-d1yrld6.jpg) Is me now. I'm pissed. | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:53 Cthsazsa wrote: Then tell us, since you think bum's role claim is fake, what do you think his real role is? Hell if I know, maybe he lost his powers when batman died, perhaps he is a roleblocker, he could be a one shot vote rigger, or maybe a time traveling clown. That is fruitless speculation, what I do know is he has no kp, as he hasn't used them. 1.) he is mafia 2.) mafia need to use kp asap especially if they are going to die 3.) there are no unaccounted for kp 4.) therefore HE HAS NO KP. End of that particular discussion | ||
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Don't even bother replying, this joker is dead tomorrow ^_^ | ||
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dskoasdfuoiasfdyufsdiuofsdhfsdauydsafosdfahjasdfoiewidoasdihoyd Ok, I want a dt on me asap, we need established town leadership at this point. Or you can vigi me and take me out of this game, I don't particularly care witch you do. I take full responsibility for this mislynch, I fucked up, big time However we still have a more than even chance of winning this. Bomber guy, plant some explosives on either bum or torte, we are lynching the other. | ||
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On June 08 2011 07:34 Mig wrote: GM who do you think is scum. And are we totally sure tdl is red? He has an anti town power but look when the vote was close he invited palmar and voted bum. If bum flips red that is a ton of town cred. Scumatlarge is 100% red, no doubt about it, I was wrong about Palmar, I'm not wrong about this. I'll spell it out, because its apparently not obvious to everyone, but RedFF has made it abundantly clear that he has been in contact with a DT, and now he comes out with this "100%" certainty that Torte is scum. Put two and two together. If you go back and read you can probably figure out who the DT is and everything. I'm sure the mafia has already. Other than that, I'm now really shaky on my reads, I've been thinking and linking things from the PoV that Palmar was red since he claimed assassin, I need to rethink things. For one hiro-protagonist's vote on palmar takes a new light. Plus he has been lurking hardcore. I'm honestly kind of shaken that palmar was green, I was 100% sure he was scum. I need a couple hours to gather my wits. | ||
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On June 08 2011 07:43 Mig wrote: Also GM nice town play. We need to establish town leadership so either dt check me or vig me I don't care. Wtf? How about you just play pro town and make good cases for scum instead of saying you don't care if you are vigd. What good town player ever offers to be vigd. The frustrated one. I was *really* sure Palmar was red, and now I feel like a worthless idiot, I expect everyone should be super suspicious of me, I practically spearheaded that lynch. | ||
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On June 08 2011 10:33 Mig wrote: That is bullshit jackal. You are an good vet did you really think mafia would kill their mole on night one? And you were around when I made the argument about mafia not even knowing his role when they killed him. Any experienced player should know how unlikely it was for mafia to kill their mole just to buy fucking palmar town cred. I mean if they really wanted town cred they would have used wiggles since he is 50x the player. This is shit the veterans would have picked up on if you were actually town. Something else everyone needs to consider, hosts balance the teams in terms of skill so one side doesnt get crushed. Now look at the town deaths on our side. Kitaman, Meapak, BC, Node all good veteran players. Do you think decu balanced this game with just 1 good vet (wiggles) on the mafia side? Of course not. Between bum, jackal, GM, barundar at least one must be mafia and it is a lot more likely to be 2-3 of them. Kill bum first then Jackal or GM should be killed after. I would prefer jackal and I will write up a full case for it if I get home early enough. Easy to pick on us, you who only showed up an hour before the lynch. Yes, I fully believed Palmar was scum, and shot the mole, knowing it was an uber DT. When I made the accusation I was not aware that RedFF had crafted Palmars role, but if i had know I would have probably pushed the lynch anyway. I made the argument that it was not for "town cred" it was to silence a DT, that was all, it was making the best of a crappy situation. It would not have worked with wiggles, as he had no kp, and the mafia would not have gotten into a convoluted lie to do it. Again its easy to demolish our arguments now, but if you had shown up sooner and argued it while I was around this might have been averted. As far as considering how the host balanced, that is WIFOM to the nth degree. You have no idea how the game is balance, how many newbs are mafia or if the host RNGed the alignments, basing *anything* on "this is how the host would have balanced it" is bad play at the very least. I eagerly await your case against jackal however. | ||
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On June 08 2011 23:51 redFF wrote: Both TDL and EM are scum and need to die ASAP. Bumatlarge could be mafia, but somebody please show me proof that he is not SK and he is mafia. He's certainly not town but I'm not 100% sure he isn't just an SK. No sane SK would claim. Bum is scum 100%. Confirm or deny, you have information not available in the thread that proves that TDL and EM are scum. And are willing to be held accountable if they aren't | ||
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On June 09 2011 06:42 Eternalmisfit wrote: @GM Who did you try to kill last night? Kurumi, it says so in the day post, I only had one member in my circle, so only one person I could attempt to sacrifice. Also FUCK YEAH, my mistake has been redeemed, thanks sinani206, I owe you a post game beer ##Fistpound: Palmar | ||
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On June 09 2011 08:28 Mig wrote: To solve the Kurumi problem, GM you can sacrifice again right? So just keep sacrificing Kurumi every night until he dies. Kurumi can only use his trap once right? I could do that, but I *really* want a PM buddy ;_; I'll keep trying though. Oh and we have a red check on torte de lini so why don't we just let Palmar shoot him and lynch someone who isn't confirmed scum? This generates more information than the "policy" lynch, since if we lynch someone who we think is scum, the remaining mafia cannot just afford to bus them, not in the dire straights we've put them in. | ||
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On June 09 2011 08:35 redFF wrote: I dunno GM, I'd rather lynch the one CONFIRMED MAFIA we have in the game and shoot for information(since shoot can go wrong, we don't know every role). Thats a good point, but we really haven't seen any redirection powers from mafia thus far, how likely do you think it is they are just hiding them? Again, if you people want to go for the torte lynch, I'm more than happy to go along, I just feel like that lynch provides far less information than say lynching hiro-protagonist. I'm willing to go with whatever the majority says at this point, I already proved a lapse of judgment with Palmar, and I'm not quite willing to do something like push some other lynch only to have Palmar's shot be bussed or something. | ||
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On June 09 2011 08:58 Mig wrote: And GM having a pm buddy is certainly nice but at this point like half the remaining players are confirmed town. I think it would be a lot more helpful for you to kill Kurumi so we don't have to either use a lynch or have palmar shoot him 2x. I said I'd do it, I'm just not ecstatic about it, I expected to do a lot more with my powers when I saw I had a nice PM circle. | ||
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Also he isn't town because he hasn't claimed timetraveling vigilantte from mars/assassin that is really aligned with the planar dragons and wins when BC is resurrected. I mean how are we supposed to identify that his is town if he dosn't make a reasonable lie like that to help us identify him? Jackal, no smilies today? | ||
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DT check jackal, lets start narrowing down some lists! Also, hiro is getting shot tonight, right? | ||
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On June 10 2011 23:45 redFF wrote: yes GM you were so right that you swung a lynch from him on to a vig!!! GJ!!!! Yes, I fucked up. Palmar claimed assassin. When town plays *that* fucking awful, I get a free pass. However I called him scum pretty much since he claimed night 1, while everyone else was all concerned about him telling the truth, so I think I deserve *some* credit. | ||
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Sound like a plan? | ||
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In that case I'm voting jackal. ^_^ ##Vote: Jackal58 | ||
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On June 11 2011 16:41 Barundar wrote: I have gotten busy in real life so I'd prefer to die before SK thanks. Also fun fact: Town is gonna lose. Right. I hate to disappoint you scum, but we *will* kill you whenever we damn well please, and taking out the KP from the serial killer is more important than dealing with you right now. Don't worry though, Palmar has a nice little bullet for you. | ||
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IF we let jackal shoot he is going to be killing townies and bringing us closer to lylo. So you want to lynch Barundar instead? Do I *need* to explain why its better that we lynch jackal and shoot barundar? Or are we going to herp derp our way into defeat? | ||
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If you don't lynch jackal today then you are retarded, THERE ARE NO ASSASSINS. We would have killed one by now, and they would have been shooting full fire since day 1, since its their best shot at winning. Jackal is as much of an assassin as I am a Planar Dragon | ||
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On June 12 2011 07:33 Rean wrote: Damn....you've got a good point there >.> This is where things get tricky. For me, the next option would then be either GMarshal or Amber[LighT]. The thing here is: if Amber is scum, we'll know because Barundar will use his powers to make a deal with Jackal. GMarshal does give me a gut feeling he's town, but not by all that much. Either way, the votecheck should help us out here. GMarshal: I understand why you'd rather lynch Jackal, and your reasons for there not being a assassin are very valid. However, if you truly are town then you have to understand that lynching Jackal and shooting Barundar won't work. I can't explain to you why, you have to trust me on this. If Jackal is lying about being a assassin, we'll know. No, I'm not buying this "just trust me" bullshit, I'm tired of being cut out of the circle. Either explain your reasoning or my vote is staying where it is. This sounds like coagulations "lynch tackster, trust me guys" in Insane 2, it got us nowhere. Kill the guy who is going to bring us closer to lylo, shoot barundar, figure out the rest of the scum team tomorrow. Its not that hard to do. | ||
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On June 12 2011 09:53 Jackal58 wrote: I'm going to shoot GMarshall. Amazing how he just screams LYNCH JACKAL yet he's not denied being an assassin himself. Let me formally deny it then. I'm not an assassin. There are no fucking assassins in this game. We would have flipped at least one already. Now die you goddamned serial killer. | ||
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On June 12 2011 10:18 Cthsazsa wrote: Why the hell would you guys gonna let a CONFIRMED SCUM live another night, just to lynch a fucking 3rd Party assassin? Are you guys shitting me right now? The "assassin" is a serial killer. And has a gun, which brings us closer to lylo, again fewer anti-town KP is something we *need* right now. LYLO cannot be that far off right now, so reducing the number of kills is a *good* thing. | ||
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On June 12 2011 17:07 Cthsazsa wrote: Jackal has every reason to lie about it? Wtf are those reasons? Jackal's been revealed, his game is over, there's no chance in him winning anymore. Why the hell would he make that up, just to screw town over? Hell, Jackal has been playing better then some of the townies here. As for Karshe, he had no choice but to put a bomb on bum. That's the only reason to even consider he's green. That is his only alibi. Go back and read my two posts if you don't believe me when I say he's scum. As for GMarshal, he definitely isn't living up to the town-leader expectation that everyone seems to have of him. The fact that he was roleblocked even more causes me to believe that he's not scum but 3rd party. Ruling out the chance of having 3 assassins with the only pitiful argument that "We would have found one by now herp derp" is the shittiest excuse ever. For all we know and with the way this crazyass game plays, Amber could be the 3rd assassin and I wouldn't be fucking surprised if he was. I'm actually starting to consider that Jackal's list might legitimate. Lynch Barundar, shoot Karshe, Jackal claims he will shoot GM, and lynch Jackal tomorrow. We can figure shit out from there. Of course jackal has to lie, as the serial killer he needs to survive. Kill jackal, there are no assassins. Look at how many kp have been in play. Do you *really* think there are SIX more bullets that have yet to be fired? Hint, there aren't. Kurumi basically accounted for all of them before he died. There are no assassins. Jackal is a serial killer with a gun, who will kill town tonight if you let him fire and bring you one step closer to lylo. In fact the best play for the serial killer is to lynch scum today, shoot town tonight, cut a deal with the mafia tomorrow to tie the votes if there are enough mafia left and then create a stalemate situation. I'm not going to allow it, anyone not voting for jackal is allowing a townie to die tonight, and has their hands stained with Blood You want me to lead? Fine, I will. Lynch jackal, he is a serial killer. Shoot Barundar, he is scum Lynch DropBear, he is mafia We have this game in the bag, unless you let jackal shoot, in which case we are one step closer to lylo. If you are really town you'll see the logic in this. If you are just a mentally handicapped townie or scum, you won't. | ||
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On June 12 2011 17:34 Palmar wrote: another reason for lynching jackal is that it clears up whether he's assassin or sk, clearing up the 3rd party situation No. We don't lynch for information. Ever. We are lynching him because he is a serial killer with a gun, and is going to kill town tonight, Anything else is an added benefit, but it is not a *reason*. | ||
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On June 12 2011 17:38 Palmar wrote: Well yeah, read through all my other posts. The main reason I want to lynch Jackal is to get rid of the KP. another reason or added benefit, would be to clear up the 3rd party thing Just making sure there are no misconceptions. And don't worry about your town play, getting better is a question of practice, we can discuss it in more detail in the post game. ^_^ | ||
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On June 12 2011 17:49 Cthsazsa wrote: Wait so now I'm suddenly mafia? Explain plz DropBear your play this game has been very poor overall. Before you call people bad, care to point out how many scum you've lynched? Oh, right you can't. Because every single scum that died except for scumatlarge was a dt led lynch. So stop putting on airs, and commit to an opinion. Who of the remaining players, not counting barundar is mafia? I'll give you a hint though, DropBear is mafia. | ||
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On June 12 2011 17:59 DropBear wrote: Ok Marshal, this a bit random. Why are you suddenly gunning for me? Oh, I just finished a reread of the thread. I don't have a full case built against you yet, and its 5 AM my time, so its going to wait till later, probably till near the end of the night (game night, not real night) , but lets just say i'm getting some bad vibes. | ||
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##Fistpound: Palmar doh, I almost forgot | ||
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Where the hell is everyone? Just waiting for the flip? | ||
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On June 13 2011 05:31 Karshe wrote: It looks like Jackal is getting lynched. My vote is staying on Barundar in hopes that Rean can get his list information to us. Either Amber or Cthsazsa is mafia so we have a 50/50 chance to make things a lot easier for us if Rean can get his information to us. So, in your opinion, who should I be inducting into my PM circle? | ||
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Who should I be masoning tonight? Why? Palmar should obviously be shooting Barundar Who should we lynch tomorrow? (Hint: DropBear ) | ||
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On June 13 2011 06:20 Cthsazsa wrote: Mason DropBear and sacrifice him. That'll save town a lynch. I still want to see your case against him, though. I cannot sacrifice till tomorrow night, plus, he has that inconvenient thing where he kills people that visit him, remember? I think I'll pass on masoning him, my urge to die and leave the town to flounder at this point is slightly less strong than my urge to win. | ||
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An in depth, detailed analysis of DropBear ![[image loading]](http://howlingforjustice.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/beautiful-wolf.jpg) The gig is up, I'm bringing down DropBear. The mafia made a critical mistake letting me live this long because I was "lurking". I'm a wolf, and I'm bringing down this bear. Lets take it from the top. A quick search shows that our good friend, the Murderous Bear, has all of 43 posts. Through a game that has hit well over 150 pages. Compare that to mafia XXXIX, where he had well over 200 posts. That by itself is a significant change in posting, one which is difficult to explain. "But Mr.Wolf" I hear you murmur "Thats, Meta, we aren't allowed to use meta" Fine, I agree, let us for a moment disregard the fact that our good friend is posting *far* less than he did as a productive member of the town. And lets not even take into consideration the high probability that a Paranoid Gun Owner role would land in the hands of the mafia team, as that too is fruitless speculation. Let us instead take a close, scrutinizing look at all 43 of his posts, after all mayhaps he has decided to play like Ver and only bust out huge useful posts, to sway the town. The first two are pregame spam, and can be disregarded, consider then his net number of posts to be 41. Let us look at his Day 1 posts, shall we? Day 1 My comments are, as usual in Bold + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2011 15:23 DropBear wrote: Hey everyone, only just caught up. First of all tnkted why the hell have you voted for Coagulation? This needs explaining. Questioning role related stuff, he is promoting speculation on an useless topic Second I am intrigued by Palmar. I have no idea what to think about a bro but I'll keep a record of who he speaks to. Attempted fistpumps that have been returned: GMarshal Node tnkted Attempted fistpumps that have been ignored: Amber[Light] redFF Even more useless fluff, this list serves *no* helpful purpose and only adds to the "content" of a as of yet vacuous post BC, I like the idea of a Zodiac list but I am very surprised to see myself on it. The experience of everyone else on that list is more then ten times mine. I don't mind being on there but I'm confused as to why I am The others are all good choices.An attempt to downplay his skill and experience, akin to the classic "i am a noob" scum tell, his insistence that he doesn't belong on the zodiac lists is an obvious attempt at dodging the pressure that those lists bring Scumhunting time! I find the following people extremely suspicious: kitaman27 tnkted Torte de Lini Tackster Kita is following exactly the same pattern as XXXIX. He has not said anything at all except tell people to shut up and posting vague accusations. In games in which he has been town he contributes much more actively. tnkted is posting extremely wierdly and I would very much like an explanation for the Coag vote. Torte is reknowned for being a heavy poster and has only 3 or 4 so far. Sure he is only in his first game, but other newbies like VisceraEyes, hiro protagonist and Karshe have been up and about providing opinions and trying to help. Tackster has already been done by Meapak and I am interested in him for the same reasons. At this stage I am voting for kitaman27. He is capable of much much more than he has been contributing and is following the same pattern as last game. This part of the post *at first* seems pro-town, but in reality its as scummy as you get, its a diversification of targets, splitting town votes so that the mafia can control the lynch. A real townie would have offered one or at most two targets, but this is an obvious attempt at 1.) splitting the lynch and 2.) hedging his bets, notice that Torte is on here with three other greens, this is so that later he can point at this post and try to garner town credit. Also his attack on torte is one that can be disproved by having torte mention his post restriction, exhuming him of lurker status. This is a well designed post in the sense that it *seems* constructive, but is really a deliberate plan to hurt the town, furthermore his only real "justified" target is kita. What a first post, huh? For those too lazy to actually go through the post itself, it basically contains 1/3 fluff, 1/3 "I am noob!" scumtell and 1/3 an attempt at splitting the town vote, while hedging his bets and attempting to appear pro-town while proposing poor targets. His next three posts are crappy analysis on those same targets, a very concentrated attempt at diversifying the lynch, by posting these "analysis" that can be brought down to one line arguments and that did not require full posts, with full posts however DB was hoping to be able to blend in as a "tryhard townie" Let us look at another post that piqued my interest shall we? We can call this the "association" exhibit. + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2011 01:52 DropBear wrote: Ok, so you're voting because Amber's trying really hard. Sandroba is a terrible lynch. The main reason seems to be his original plan. It was against the rules but when he posted his idea it was before deconduo clarified the rules. It might not be the best plan but he's obviously trying to help. So far this actually seems like a townie post, you know the whole "bad play =/= scum" thing, he gets no town points for defending sand, as a scum love to defend townies, but he does get a logic point He is accused of turning quiet. Within only 2 pages of the announcement of his plan the following people told him his idea was terrible: chaos13 Eternalmisfit Rean Varpulis Palmar Mr Wiggles BloodyC0bbler GMarshal stefftastiq redFF Mataza That is a lot of negativity to swallow, why is everyone surprised that he has gone quiet? I'd pipe down too if I was told by half the town to stfu. An useless list that adds fluff to his post and a deeper justification of sand's behavior than is needed, it is once again trying to hard to seem town, after the first paragraph is when most townies would have cut their argument, with perhaps one line devoted to this, but DB needed to make his arguments look convincing. Varpulis, who tried to alter the plan is then jumped on next. He decides to "withdraw" and is immediately jumped on by kita and Palmar. Their plans might not be good ones but it doesn't make them Mafia. They are just trying to help, if poorly. Redtooth in XXXIX was an example of that. Their contributions are much larger than several players so far, even if they have gone quiet recently. Here is the gold. Read this paragraph twice, its *that* relevant. This is a preemptive defense of their mole, he was trying to head off vigilante shots before they happened, it obviously didn't work out, but its an association that is rather relevant DropBear then has a nice little spat with kita, all about how kita is lurking just like in XXXIX, but the entire argument is based on meta. Its still an attempt at pushing lurkers, but I have to wonder why db chose kita, when there were more evident targets. That by itself fails to convict DB, so I suppose that so far its a null tell. Up until we hit the next post that is + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2011 11:19 DropBear wrote: tnkted still hasn't explained his vote yet wtf? Where are you man? Can people PLEASE stop talking about sandroba's plan its completely irrelevant now. Tackster is a much better lynch than him. This ladies and gentlemen is what we call "I don't care who gets lynched" 1.) no mention of his number 1 suspect, kita or a justification of why he no longer cares for kita. 2.) its throws some suspicion on tnkted, drawing the town into yet another worthless discussion about odd votes. 3.) Brings up Tackster who wasn't under any real focus at the time, and diverts even more votes off the main lynch targets. His following three posts are notable, I'll put all three of them in the same spoiler, for ease of reference + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2011 19:33 DropBear wrote: First of all man, sorry but I'm not going to return your offer. I am worried about what it would do. nothing really scummy about being suspicious I guess ^_^ Look at the rest of my post. It wasn't just Sandroba who was jumped on for offering a bad plan, Varpulis was as well. I'm liking the effort that you are putting in but I'm not convinced. Varpulis has been still very active and doing his best. He got timid briefly after being told he was playing poorly, so what? He's back to his normal self again now. Now theres no subtlety in this, he is brute force linking Sand and Varp, with the hope that sand will really get lynched and Varp will be cleared of all suspicion, for a while at least I would put a lot of money on both Sandroba and Varpulis being town. See, Varp, who isn't even being discussed is having credit bought for him by DB. Its a clever play, and one that will buy DB credit too when sand flips green. Very clever play, but a little too obvious. Wiggles, what? I have to say that I strongly disagree. You are worrying me, you just seem to be jumping on the bandwagon. Throwing light suspicion on a scumbuddy so they aren't tied together later, but understating it so that theres no chance of an actual case being assembled. When I was mafia I *loved* these weak FoS, as they made cred easy to gain, just light FoS and then talk about how right you were. Nice to know that somebody agrees. I still think kita is dodgy as hell, if one of these others comes up as a candidate I will gladly switch to them. Nice switch to Tackster then right back to kita as soon as someone agrees. Again "I don't care who dies as long as they aren't a team mate On June 01 2011 19:35 DropBear wrote: Also what's with me being on all these lists? I didn't realise I was so highly thought of. "I am a noob please, please don't pressure me! On June 01 2011 19:47 DropBear wrote: Fistpound List Returned offer by Palmar GMarshal Node tnkted Kurumi sandroba Offered it to Palmar without being asked VisceraEyes Mataza Ignored invitation from Palmar Amber[Light] redFF Meapak_Zipph Eternalmisfit DropBear Complete fluff and cause of suspicion in and of itself, scum love posting lists, its an easy way to "contribute" For the lazy 1.) Linking sand and varp to buy cred for his mole 2.) Doesn't care about who is lynched 3.) "I'm a noob, take me off those pressure lists" 4.) Light FoS on scum to distance 5.) fluffy posts And then this gem + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2011 05:09 DropBear wrote: This thread is an absolute mess. I'm almost ready to pull a draconian redtooth move here. Will be posting my updated lynch targets shortly. Before I do that, can I please get an explanation from someone as to why I'm on the Zodiac lists? I thought the idea was to have good players or people who will be obvious targets. I've played only 2 games and wasn't exactly successful. He *really* wants to be taken off those zodiac lists, no? Why would a town player want to dodge pressure like this? Most townies would see this as a chance to shine, rather than cowering from the attention Next is my favorite day 1 post from DB, its his "analysis" of VisceraEyes, where he says nothing, points out a bunch of scummy moves on VE's part and then concludes "he is probably" green. 1 check for being wishy washy, and another for your analysis actually contradicting your conclusions. this is the post in question if anyone cares to read it. Also the so called "analysis" fails to actually analyze anything and limits itself to pointing out the glaringly obvious. Thats all of the day one material DB so kindly provided us with, I shouldn't need more damning evidence than this, but lets dive into it anyway. Day 2 His first post of day 2 actually seems extremely pro-town, its a detailed defense of chaos13, (here), but scum *love* to defend townies as well, best way to build town cred. Still I'll throw him a townie point, to counterweight all 40 scum points he earned day 1. His part 2 thoughts however are much more... significant. read it here he points out that kurumi is lying. And then advocates no course of action Let me say that again: DropBear points out a clear liar and makes no suggestion as to what to do. This is a deliberate attempt to avoid the controversy that proposing a policy shot or lynch would bring. This failure to suggest a lynch or shot on clear evidence indicates that he is trying to push for something to be done, without sticking his neck out. Part 3 of his thoughts are fascinating, as they mimic my own, any sane townie should have seen this, this is a case of DB pointing out the obvious, bussing a teammate that is already damned to die by pointing out what an reasonable townie should have already seen. The fact that he was able to post this to gain town cred just points at how awful we as a town are. This next part merits me going point by point + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2011 04:40 DropBear wrote: DROPBEAR'S THOUGHTS PART 4 OF 4 Other assorted tidbits - Bringing back BloodyC0bbler is an excellent idea. He's already flipped town. He's an expert player. Why not bring him back? I don't agree with the worries raised by Amber and others that his role could protect Mafia. From the looks of things, there are so many killing roles that the only time it could possibly harm town would be if he was still alive with only 5-6 players left and the only shot being a Mafia shot. Yay! Lets point out the glaringly obvious and neglect to mention the important points, such as 1.) mafia will shoot him 2.) Mafia now know to send their hit in at the very last minute - Wiggles' claim of framed and his night action bussed is theoretically possible. Theoretical. It is however bullshit. The chances of everything lining up so perfectly are astronomically small. It assumes that there is a bus driver, it also assumes that there is a framer. There then has to be him being framed, which is 1/31 chance, plus sinani being bussed with precisely deskcaress which is some stupidly small number. The chances of all these things falling perfectly into place are negligible. Bus, bus, bus your teammate desperately... There is also this post which I credit for starting the ridiculous sandroba v redFF v Jackal58 melee and completely derailed town for several pages. Not only this, he was jumping on whatever bandwagon was gaining speed at the time without starting any of them. His scum flip is no real surprise. This claim of being DT checked because he was on a zodiac list is rubbish. The point of the zodiac lists was NOT dt checking those on it. - I still don't understand why I'm on the zodiac lists and I would LOVE an explanation. No pressure please! I want to be able to seem like I'm contributing without any *real* scrutiny - This thread is reeeeeeeeally hard to read. Please stop posting every little thing that comes into your head, only post if you have something important to say. I'm having massive problems getting scumreads cos its just spam spam spam. Keep it concise and need-to-know. although I agree its an easy statement for anyone to make - The level of roleclaiming is ridiculous. My spreadsheet can't keep up with the notes. There is so much information out there now that Mafia can use and I encourage everyone who has not roleclaimed yet to stay silent, at least until you have something very important that requires revealing yourself. Basic advice once again, obvious stuff is obvious, stop posting fluff. -GMarshal if you were roleblocked, how the hell are you supposed to have added someone to your mason circle? Or is that a day action? - Fistpound list Day 2 Returned fistpound that was offered by Palmar Offered to Palmar without being asked Kenpachi Rean Kurumi Mataza tnkted Cthsazsa hiro protagonist steftastiq sinani206 Refused/ignored invitation from Palmar MORE FLUFF, SO I LOOK PRO-TOWN deconduo can you please update the list of people who have died and the important post links in the OP? so yeah, fluff, fluff, fluff and oh yes, I'm a noob. Day 3 and onward Day 3 DB contributed nothing, while supporting Palmar, that would usually be good play. Except for the fact that Palmar played exactly like mafia. Other than that he went through the day with "Internet problems" which was a great way to avoid having to push for a bum lynch when I so conveniently saved him... His next major post is day 4, in his analysis of hiro protagonist. Which tries to look *really hard* like real analysis but is utter bs, basically it boils down to "he has a bad voting record" as a rule though, mafia usually have *good* voting records, since they know who is mafia, they only vote for the same target when they *have* to, hence they usually vote for their own team mates unless its a close thing. None of those lynches can be called a close thing in any way shape or form. His only other post of substance is his arguments against redFF, which are as poor as his arguments against hiro. He's been pushing bad lynches and behaving scummily all game long, while trying to *look* pro town. Not trying to help the town, but trying to look pro-town way too hard, rather than trying to win, he has been trying to build cred while misdirecting the town. Drop Bear is a mafia PGO and should be hung Kill the bear. Win the game. | ||
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On June 14 2011 06:25 Cthsazsa wrote: Ahh, ninja'd. I am waiting for GMarshal's case against DropBear. But he is certainly a possibility. There you go. Any other requests? | ||
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##Vote DropBear *growls at DB, and starts to circle around him, teeth bared* | ||
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On June 14 2011 06:52 Cthsazsa wrote: Hmm, yes. As Rean said, there are 2 scum on this list, DropBear most likely being one of them. imo It's between Amber and Steff. There are so many possibilities. Assuming that I am correct about Karshe, that would mean stefftastiq is the 2nd scum. Assuming I am wrong and Karshe is Town, it's either Amber or You. If you're the missing scum on Palmar's list then it is between Amber and Steff. Or there could be 3 Mafia left, Karshe/Steff/DropBear/Amber. Who do you think is the 2nd scum on last night's vote list? Im not 100% sure, I'd guess Amber, because his role gives next to nothing to analyze, however I need to reread the thread again and look at them before I make up my mind, I don't really suspect Karshe, steff I have no real idea of, I can't really bring to mind any significant posts by him. Oh, btw, I know we love the lists, but if we don't want to lose theres something we need to consider. A serial killer miller already flipped, I think there might be a mafia miller as well, which means that if we get the list down to only people who are unlikely to be mafia we need to consider other possibilities. I'm throwing that out there because otherwise this game seems dreadfully imbalanced, no? Anyway, lynch DB and we can worry about everything else tomorrow, or tonight. | ||
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##Fistpound: Palmar | ||
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On June 14 2011 07:13 Cthsazsa wrote: I'm betting that Rean was shot at because I don't think anyone else here has a veteran type role. If that's true, I'm wondering why they chose to shoot Rean. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's pretty damn obvious who has the medic-type role? True, but I think it was a gamble the mafia had to take, list checks rape scum badly. I'm also betting that the remaining scum did not all vote for the same target, for obvious reasons. | ||
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On June 14 2011 08:22 redFF wrote: Dropbear/GM are the last 2 scum imo. GM busing DB. hahahahahahaha Post an analysis and *maybe* I'll stop laughing at you. | ||
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He seems to be lashing out. I think its a response to me suggesting that there might be millers or *gasp* a godfather like role, which suddenly puts his towniness at doubt. No worries though, if he wants to lynch me after db flips red we just have Palmar shoot him and probably win outright. | ||
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On June 14 2011 09:46 Palmar wrote: I didn't get shot tonight. I like the dropbear lynch, as he can never be cleared anyway. If he flips red, that's no clearance for anyone though. We still need more information. GMarshal, do you have a new member in your cult now? Amber, quote the person you targeted and wiggle your tail. I inducted steff. As far as clearing people, I really think that if we want to win we need to do analysis, rather than depending on "cleared" people, as far as I am concerned the only "clear" person is you, and thats because you flipped. | ||
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On June 14 2011 09:58 redFF wrote: -_- wait are you seriously suggesting I am scum lol? It's just people are going around treating GM like a confirmed townie when he most certainly is not. He lurked like a bitch for the first few days and has come out guns blazing now that he see's scum are in a position to win and he can't survive by lurking and posting shitty shit with no substance. Lynch dropbear obviously, but then shoot GM imo. I don't lurk as town, I don't lurk as scum, I lurk when I have no choice, such as when I'm in the middle of exams. And guess what? I *didn't* out two detectives, you did. I killed TWO serial killers and told everyone bum was scum since he claimed. How many anti-town forces have you killed lately Mr. I oust dts? Again, come back when you have a case other than "he made a great case against DB, he must be scum!" I was really close to rage quitting, the only reason I'm sticking with this town is because if I leave you on your own you will lose. Frankly I don't dislike anyone enough to make them struggle with this town. Hell if you want to shoot me, feel free! Hand the mafia this game, why not? I mean I'm the only person who has analyzed this game, you might as well rely on your DTs and then cry when you discover the mafia had a godfather, or that there was a miller as part of balancing a role, or that the mafia had a framer. Damn I'm pissed right now. People like you, who make absurd leaps of logic and then depend on detectives are why Ace had to write that guide on Cops and Vigis. If you are town start analyzing and backing up your reasoning. At this point though, I'm willing to believe you are scum, it curious how as soon as I threaten DB and question the list checks I must be scum. Its almost as if I had challenged your plan to victory... | ||
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Your plan would be wonderful, except if we follow it and follow your plan, and there is a miller and a mafia outside the list then we lose. I'm betting that thats the case, and I'm betting that you are the mafia outside the list. You are desperate to silence me before the town listens to me and realizes "fuck, dt roles aren't foolproof". I'll agree to the plan on three conditons. 1.) You prove rean isn't mafia and just playing us 2.) You prove the only mafia left are on that list 3.) You prove there are no millers. Guess what, you cannot fulfill those conditions, so I will not agree to that plan. I'll execute steff, If I find evidence that his is mafia, otherwise you are shit out of luck | ||
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On June 14 2011 10:48 redFF wrote: Ok GM you wanna know why there isn't a framer? GMarshal -Role confirmed-killed kurumi, steff is in his cult Palmar -role confirmed Rean -role confirmed DropBear -Meapak's death=role confirmed stefftastiq-All his action spotting has been correct-role confirmed Amber[LighT] -framer dog???+my rolecheck Karshe - bombs confirm role Cthsazsa -role confirmed by other player+my rolecheck redFF-role confirmed Who is a framer? Prove there isn't a miller or a godfather, I'll buy the absence of a framer. What rolecheck? I thought you masoned people, not checked their role? Again theres NO WAY decon would allow a list check and no millers + no counters for the mafia, as in that case the mafia has no chance of winning from day 1. | ||
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On June 14 2011 11:09 redFF wrote: Yeah a game with a votechecker would be imbalanced and unfair for mafia, owait, Decon did balance it, there was a mole!!!!!!!!! PYP insane had a votechecker and no gf/miller just a mole. The game has 2 alignment checking roles(3 if you count desk) I really don't think much balancing was done apart from adding in the mole. The mole was the balancing lol, no millers/gf needed. It's been known I have a rolecheck for a while in the thread. GM it's weird how as soon as I mention the possibility of you being scum you come at me all guns blazing and call me scum. OMGUS that's called lol. Nice try with the chainsaw defense/huge OMGUS but it won't work. So to recap, please tell me how the game would need extra balancing other than a mole. We have established there is no framer and we have now established there are no millers. As for Rean being scum LOLOLOL. PYPI was a terrible example of a balanced game, it was hideously broken *because* there were no godfathers and no millers. I really doubt that after seeing the scum team anally violated in PYP:I by vote lists, decon was like "nah, its cool, I'll just fuck over the scumteam again" And the "OMGUS" is due to you providing no reasoning, but rather attacking me when I cast reasonable doubts on the lists. Blindly depending on list checks is a path to defeat. I'm almost certain that there is a miller or/and a role with a godfather like function, if there isn't I will be astounded by the brokenness of the game. You do realize that list checks were so broken even in games with millers that they had to be removed from the game Now you are telling me that a single mole would balance that brokenness? BS, there is at least 1 miller, and probably a godfather in addition to it. | ||
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So, lets take a quick poll. Who here believes that there are no millers and that we should follow the lists to our demise? Who here agrees with me that if we shouldn't sheep a failure prone list, but rather *scumhunt*? Are we here to play mafia? Or are we here to sheep dts? I know what I'm here for. So, thoughts on my analysis of DB? Is it wrong? Right? Did people just glaze over it because it has too many words? I won't allow us to go quietly into the night, if we want to win this we cannot just go inactive! | ||
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On June 15 2011 02:05 Palmar wrote: GM Cause I like to hog all the KP's myself. And because he is on Rean's list. Go for it. Give mafia the game. I mean who needs to scumhunt? Go back and read PYP:I. Do you know who pushed the "kill everyone on the list" idea? I did, cause I was mafia, and knew that was the best way to win, you force town attention on mistaken DT checks rather than on actual scumhunting. If we exterminate the list we play straight into the mafia's hands, stop being idiots and realize this. Why am I the only player that even considers the possibility of balance? | ||
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On June 15 2011 03:47 Cthsazsa wrote: Rean I'm just ignoring red for now. All he's done and been doing is calling people scum without a good reason and shouting 'IF WE DONT SHOOT THIS LIST WE LOSE". Its the typical desperate mafia strategy of the last survivor, realizing he is about to be left alone, and clinging to one last desperate strand of hope. If Palmar has any clue of what good town play entails he'll shoot him tonight. Not that I expect that mind you, he'll probably shoot into the town and be like "oops, I killed our best analyst, when we are fast approaching lylo, my bad ^_^" | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:02 redFF wrote: lol, circumstances have changed. I know you are mad I called you scum yesterday but there is no reason to not listen to me when what I am saying is correct. What reasons do we have not to believe this list? GM is trying to convince everyone it is inaccurate because he knows he is screwed if we just kill into this list and win the game. I've heard this argument before! You know who made it? I did, when I was scum in PYP:I and Radfeild questioned the validity of my lists. ^_^ Guess what? If I weren't around you'd get away with it and everything! But I am around, and here to remind the town that this is an *exact* repeat of PYP:I, except that this time I'm on the town's side. | ||
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Keep flailing mafia man, I've been in your position before, and I don't envy it. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:12 redFF wrote: lol I think DB is scum too, and I stated why I'm following the lynch ffs. You are just twisting my words and acting like I am obv-scum when I'm not lol. Dropbear is a claimed PGO, and he is in that list of 4 PEOPLE, 2 OF THEM BEING MAFIA. He is scum so we are lynching him lol. You're really fucked now because of that list and these idiots are buying your bullshit about millers and gfs and such. A gf would do jack shit to that list, if there was a gf on it then more of you would be scum not less lol. A miller would fuck it up I agree, BUT WE HAVE NO REASON TO THINK THERE IS A MILLER, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE VOTECHECK OF A FRIGGIN CONFIRMED DT. This is hilarious that people may actually side with you. Palmar ffs you know what to do. Once again all this is is a hardcore OMGUS/chainsaw defense from GM and Votechecks are op but what you gonna do? Keep on being desperate scum, you know and I know and your scumbuddy knows that there is a miller in that list, you know that if you convince the town to kill everyone on it you win, its just a matter of how much people are willing to sheep idiocy, rather than bother to *think* about whether or not such an op ability would be allowed without a counter, and of what your real intent is, mr "I oust dts" Do you really think that if there were two mafia left both would vote for the same target like idiots? The fact that you think that if I were mafia I would be that stupid is so condescending that it makes me actually angry. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:12 Cthsazsa wrote: Wait, why all of a sudden is GM scum? You never explained your reasoning. And "he's on both lists" doesn't count. Its because I want people to think, rather than depend on blues, stupid of me, I know, but hey, a man can hope, right? | ||
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Or we can do it the other way around, I don't care ^_^ | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:28 redFF wrote: -_- lol I am thinking but to ignore A VOTECHECK FROM A CONFIRMED DT WITH NO REASON TO THINK THAT THERE IS A MILLER is idiotic. Yes Gmarshal being on both lists is suspicious, TOWN HAS TO KILL INTO THIS LIST, IT IS THE ONLY RATIONAL THING TO DO. Gmarshal was the main force behind palmar getting lynched over Bumatlarge lol. If you guys actually listen to this guy and don't shoot into this list then you are idiots. I've gone from being thought of as town to being questioned and doubted because I brought up a perfect plan which would result in scum's loss and of course GM is trying his hardest to prevent that. Right, the guy who has now killed two different SKs and a red is obviously not to be trusted. Oh he also mistakenly lynched the guy who claimed assassin, when he was sure there were no assassins (And was I right? I WAS! ^_^) You know what else I'm right about? There being a miller, I guarantee you there is. I've balanced games, at least trust me as far as "there is no way in hell there are listchecks and NO alignment disguising powers/roles in the game" Again, you are using the same exact arguments I used against radfield, even the same tone of rage at the town. Have you been reading PYP:I for pointers? I remind you I lost that game, so copying my strategy might not be the best play, Mr. I oust DTs . Oh, and by the way I CAN SPAM CAPS TOO! Not that it lends your arguments any credence. | ||
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Damn, forgot he was a pgo. Nvm then. Shooting redFF then ^_^ | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:39 Palmar wrote: We'll see GMarshal If DropBear flips green, I'm definitely shooting into the list. There are hardly two millers in the list. At the moment, I feel I'm shooting you no matter what, you have a KP that I don't control, you have less green points in my book than anyone in the list aside from dropbear. Go for it then, but shoot me because you think I'm scum, not because of some "list" Make a case. Yes I mislynched you, sorry, but *you* claimed assassin. Analyze my posts, point out what my motivation is. I've also killed two serial killers and called out bum on his bs from day 1 + not sacrificed anyone. Are you saying that all that gives me fewer "green points" than say RedFF? The guy who exposed three detective roles thus far? Really? Don't guess, judge people by their actions, I've only tried to help the town, redFF has only tried to lynch people at random, and his record thus far is poor to say the least. You have a KP, you are responsible for this town's victory or defeat. Don't throw my efforts away, please. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:43 redFF wrote: exactly, ignoring a votecheck with 2/4 scum by a confirmed dt would be one of the dumbest things i have ever seen a town do. We have to shoot into that list and GM should be the first shot because he is the scummiest and has kp. Yes, continue to ignore all my arguments, and when someone flips miller and the town loses, just shrug your shoulders and grin, as you drive your knife into their backs. I hope the town is smart enough to ignore you. this is *exactly* PYP:I, and if I couldn't beguile the town into letting me win in that game, then by god I'm not going to let you succeed where I failed. Nothing personal of course, just can't allow scum to defeat me like this. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:56 Palmar wrote: Yes GMarshal, I think you're scum. But the thing is you're good at this game, I've read through PYPI and your posting almost didn't change at all when you turned mole, or not in a way I could've spotted the difference. And don't get me wrong, I notice other things too. Amber and Rean were among the last people to switch to my lynch. What it comes down to is looking at the actions at hand. You see, there are tiny little things pointing in your direction. Most of the town probably wouldn't have cared if it was me or bum who got lynched, both were "confirmed" anti-town and useless. But you really made it your case that I should be the one dying. I mean, your comments in that part were okay, there was logic and reason to them, but that's only what I'd expect of you, town or mafia. But, even if I end up shooting you, you have 24 hours to win the game for us. Show us what you're made of, you're our best analyst. There is enough information on the board. Lead us to victory beyond your grave. Why? I've already done more than enough for you guys, I'm tired of being right and then being called scum for being right. You can't even provide analysis to prove to *anyone* that I am mafia, hence you have no justification for turning that gun on me. Who made sure jackal died when people were all like "lol he is assassin"? Who called out bum on his bs Night 1? Who just provided the damning evidence that will kill DB? Who pegged redFF as the last mafia? I did. I fail to see why the hell I have to do all the work, this isn't a single player game. But I digress, you want me to solve the game for you? I already did, DropBear and RedFF are scum, the miller is probably me or Amber. There is no third mafia. I won already, I'd just like to not die, in case I'm wrong about redFF. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote: By the way GMarshal are you killing stefftastiq tonight? No, I kill people who I think are scum, and I don't think he is ^_^ | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:03 redFF wrote: How have I exposed 3 dt's? I pushed for bum to be lynched over Palmar, but you idiots just followed GM. I have been totally open with my role and targeted people with it with results. I was the first to make a case against TDL, I pushed hard for Wiggle's lynch. I admit attacking Mataza wasn't correct but there is no way you can look at his posts and not think they are scummy as fuck. You killed Kurumi, scum have just as much of an incentive to kill SK's as town. You didn't kill Jackal lol. Rean inspected him and he came back black so we lynched him. Neither of these actions have made you "more townie". Gm will continue with this bs about PYP:I and how he doesn't want me to win when he couldn't regardless of what I say. Just don't listen to his ramblings and lynch dropbear, shoot him. GM you should still sacrifice steff if you are town obviously because then he is probably the other scum. "I pushed hard for wiggles lynch" is easy to say, when there was a DT on him *everyone* voted for wiggles. You exposed chaos13, and Rean and don't you fucking dare deny it. Actually as mafia there was *more* incentive to leave jackal alive than Barundar. barundar was fucked either way, jackal would have killed an additional townie and brought you closer to lylo, as well as probably making palmar mis shoot and having to waste a lynch on him. *I* pushed the jackal lynch, and theres absolutely no denying it, you guys were ready to let him sail by with his assassin claim. And yes this *is* exactly PYP:I | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:10 redFF wrote: My comments in bold. GM you keep calling out for people to analyse and provide reasons if you call someone mafia so why not do it for me? It shouldn't be difficult if i am so clearly scum. Easy, I don't even need to do a PBP You exposed chaos13 as a watcher You exposed rean as a DT You randomly call people scum, and never back up your reasoning You don't want us to think but rather to sheep. These are the traits of a new mafia player who *thinks* he is being clever and subtle and building cred as a bad town and building thread control. Fact is, the moment anyone opposes anything you say, you immediately move to kill them. When I flip green, your death warrant is signed. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:20 redFF wrote: If you are town than the worst thing you did is saying that if you flip green i am auto-scum. I'm just pushing the logical ideas here, which are killing into the list with 2/4 scum made by a confirmed dt. GM is too good to do that as town. I pushed that "logical" idea in PYP:I Turns out it would have damned the town. You are the lead person pushing that. I'm 80% sure theres a miller on that list. If you are scum you have to cover up any evidence against that as quickly and heavily as possible, its not a matter of choice, you *have* to. I baited you with the miller comment, you immediately called me scum and accused me of bussing DB, that is what is called taking the bait. You fell for my trap. *that* is what makes you scum. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:32 redFF wrote: that would work except i said you were scum before you said there could be a miller lol. Even if what you were saying is true, you mentioned millers, i called you scum, that doesn't make me automatically scum lol. Flat out lie. this came before this So, you fell for my trap, are now lying about it and better yet, denying the strength of the trap. Caught you! ^_^ | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:34 redFF wrote: Steff how much have you and GM been pming each other since he added you to his pm circle? Have you guys had a lot of pro-town discussion? Has he given a reason for inducting you? Look at the timestamp for this post and tell me how much you guys have been making use of your pm circle. Not at all, I'm too busy defending myself from baseless accusations, and steff thinks I'm going to kill him so has no reason to chat. (I'm probably not going to kill him btw) Stop changing the topic, scum. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:50 redFF wrote: olol yeah whoops, i thought this- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186¤tpage=162#3239 was the first mention of a miller, my bad i guess. Your argument still has very little merit. How does the possibility of their being millers make me scum? If there were millers on the list i could very well direct a lynch to cthazsa/karshe over me. Nope, *your reaction* to me questioning the lists makes you scum. I question the lists, you *immediately* had to devalue what I was saying by calling me scum, even if you didn't lynch me right off the bat, you couldn't allow me to focus discussion outside of the list. The whole plan for you to win safely is to kill everyone on the list, after that happens you are almost assured to win. Its damage control, the list already fucked you over in part, so you might as well get some free townie kills out of the deal. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:57 redFF wrote: If the list dies and there are not 2 scum on it then won't town just kill me and i lose???? You could squirm out of it, + by that point the game is at lylo, you need to force a single mislynch. Thats why I forced you to play your hand. If there is one mafia outside of db and you then you insta win. Its your only bet to victory. | ||
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On June 15 2011 06:02 redFF wrote: Alright GM if you said you weren't going to kill him why did you add him to the circle and not discuss anything with him through pm's? Seems a bit pointless really, wouldn't it be better to add someone you thought of as scum to the circle or someone you wanted to talk too? I've answered every PM he's sent me, he's been pretty afk though. I intended to pressure him to see if he was scum, but current events have kept me occupied, and basically determined who the other mafia is, no PM's required. I'm willing to discuss anything he wants to talk about, but at this point the most beneficial discussion will take place in the thread | ||
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On June 15 2011 06:04 redFF wrote: Alright blatant contradiction. After all you have said if you flip town I am dead lol, so me forcing a mislynch shouldn't be a huge problem. Which was the whole point, I don't think theres a third mafia, but its possible. And I don't doubt the town's stupidity and ability to lynch the wrong person. You can be very persuasive when necessary redFF, so you'll just go to lylo after exterminating the list and push the lynch off onto someone else. its the only way you could hope to win, really. | ||
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On June 15 2011 06:12 Palmar wrote: why did you introduce steff to the circle gm? I wanted to be able to pressure him in PM land to find if he was scum. RedFF just made that unnecessary though ^_^ | ||
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On June 15 2011 13:39 DropBear wrote: Just finished an exam, to come back to seeing that I am the unanimous candidate thus far. Doesn't that bother anyone? There are four possibilities and I'm the ONLY CANDIDATE? With absolutely noone arguing against it? The only person who has actually laid a case is Marshal and his case is terrible. steff is in no way confirmed. redFF if you know something about Amber that we all don't you need to get it out in the open. At this late stage there is no point in hiding. Don't worry about it, I hear redFF's reason for voting for you is "GM is scum, LYNCH DB!" And of course no one has made a case against you but me, they have DT's! Why would they waste their time *analyzing* anything, or giving reasons for their votes? Confirmed town, remember? No need to actually think. But if you make the mistake of thinking, or analyzing, you are mafia and should be shot. No justification for shooting you required, mind you, just *bang* I'm sorry, did I come off a *little* bit cynical? | ||
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On June 15 2011 21:10 redFF wrote: Yes DB that is why GM is sacrificing him tonight while Palmar shoots GM. We have a list of 2/4 mafia and we are killing into it, the most likely mafia dying first and then going down the list. Nope. You can't make me kill townies if I don't want to, scum. ^_^ | ||
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Is that such a difficult concept to grasp? | ||
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On June 16 2011 06:32 redFF wrote: I think you are scum too lol, that's why you should die before steff/amber No, you've made it pretty clear you just want to exterminate the list and ignore everything else. Anyway, when DB flips red you get shot tonight and we win. gg ^_^ | ||
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On June 16 2011 06:52 redFF wrote: kk shoot GM fairly obvious, Palmar please tell me how this flip makes me scum, still no evidence there are millers. Hi, I'm the guy who bagged two mafia and two serial killers thus far. Are you scared, scum? You should be. | ||
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On June 16 2011 06:55 redFF wrote: lololol dropbear was getting lynched anyway, please don't claim that kill. You didn't "bag" Kurumi because he claimed, nice job. Jackal was getting lynched already too. Who is the other "mafia" you bagged, surely not the one you lynched a vigi over? I called out bum night 1. You guys were content to let jackal scoot by with an assassin claim and bring you closer to lylo You can *say* DB was getting lynched anyway, but I was the one who provided the analysis. And I had Kurumi claim to me privately day 1, which later led to his in thread claim, I also personally stabbed him, so yes, I take full credit for that kill as well. I'm 4/5 which is better than you can say. Plus, Palmar shouldn't count, he claimed assassin ffs. | ||
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On June 16 2011 07:03 Palmar wrote: GM I don't want you to use your abilities tonight I'm shooting redFF I'm inducting someone if you don't mind, I want to be able to chat with people. | ||
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On June 16 2011 07:11 Palmar wrote: I do mind. Please do not induct anyone into your cult. I will be inducting Cthsazsa. I want to press him in PM's. Why don't you want me inducing people? | ||
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On June 16 2011 07:17 Karshe wrote: Palmar, I hope you know what you're doing. I really don't want to lose because we got swindled by GMarshal. He's certainly capable of it (that's a compliment, GM). By the way, where were you all of yesterday? It seems like you didn't add to the discussion at all -__- | ||
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On June 16 2011 07:17 Palmar wrote: Several reasons. a) you can kill people in the cult. I'm not convinced you're town, so I don't want you to have any additional powers. b) some mafia games have cults with independent win conditions (like turn half the town). I know a cult isn't a 3rd party thing, but if you're scum it could come down to the people in your cult being manipulated in some way. Maybe you can force their votes or something. c) you said we should rely on analysis, so let's keep all the information in the thread and out of PMs. Ask redFF, he interrogated me, he should have my role, I can't actually kill anyone anymore. I only had two sacrificial knives, I used both on kurumi. I wanted to keep this secret to scare the mafia in the later game, but I guess its a moot point now. I'm going to add Cths because I want to be able to ask certain questions about her role without the mafia hearing us on the offchance RedFF isn't the last mafia or is actually green. Can you just trust me on this? Cths can publish any PM's where I try to influence her vote. (there won't be any, promise) | ||
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On June 16 2011 07:21 redFF wrote: Sorry guys, but ffs GM why didn't you just claim miller lol. Because the correct response to someone unconfirmed claiming miller is to lynch them asap, as almost every time its mafia trying to preempt a dt check. Much like DB claim of being PGO, when he really had already exhausted that ability. Sorry, but I just couldn't do that, get myself lynched and then cost the town the game. | ||
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Again, PM's are really powerful lategame, so I'd rather not leave my ability unused ^_^ | ||
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On June 16 2011 08:09 Palmar wrote: Does anyone here NOT agree with this plan: I want people to say they agree, or amber can wiggle his tail at my post. Tonight: Shoot Cthazha, who will death vig Karshe Tomorrow: Lynch redFF Next night: I shoot GMarshal That should cover it, aside from mafia kills? Yeah, did we forget about steff? He is a person playing too, and could be scum, kind of important to account for. | ||
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On June 16 2011 08:11 Palmar wrote: Well there were 2 mafia on the jackal lynch, and those are your miller role and dropbear. So he's kinda clear-ish barring a godfather role. I'd *really* rather we not bar a godfather role. I'm not as sure about it as I was about the miller, but theres a good chance that one of the weaker roles has a "you return town to alignment checks" pegged on to the end of it to make it slightly stronger. Anyway, its a moot point, I would shoot redFF in your position and see how it plays out tomorrow, but thats up to you ^_^ | ||
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On June 16 2011 08:14 Palmar wrote: It's decided, I'm sending in the kill command on redFF now. I suggest lynching GM tomorrow if redFF isn't mafia. No worries. You just won the game for us ^_^ | ||
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On June 16 2011 17:35 Palmar wrote: I think the best way forward is the tackling the situation based on it's simplicity. Assuming everything on the board is correct, redFF is mafia, so we kill him Assuming everything on the board is correct, but GMarshal is both miller and scum, we kill him. If GMarshal flips miller, we're back in a situation where we have to analyse the remaining players See thats the type of thinking that gets towns killed. What would the point of a miller mafia be, anyway? Its irrelevant, redff will flip red, but that type of logic is absolutely terrible. If redFF flipped green you would want to try to find a gf, not kill a confirmed miller, especially with lylo fast approaching. @Csth, sorry for calling you a her, your name ends with an a, so my mind automatically makes you a girl. I'm sure I'll do it again, so I apologize for that too. | ||
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On June 16 2011 18:00 Palmar wrote: This is the only logical way to continue. Are you kidding me? You of all people should know that role has nothing to do with alignment. If the person who created your role created a miller type role, he'd still have no guarantee that you're town, would he? So the defense of "What would the point of a miller mafia be, anyway" is ridiculous in this setup. And there are still good reasons for killing you. As I already said I have switched to action based analysis, and everyone has pretty pro-town based action. Its *not* the only way to continue, there are much better ways to progress forward. But its irrelevant, RedFF will flip red and I'll be able to laugh at your suspicions. | ||
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Because a "godfather"/"town miller" is part of a role which are not discussed in the OP. What is included in the OP are the different types of possible alignments | ||
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The hell.... FUCK. Ok, time to reread the thread.... | ||
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On June 17 2011 06:13 Karshe wrote: Sigh. Pretty sure we've been duped by GMarshal, Palmar. It's either him or Cthsazsa, who is a zombie. Based off of redFF's role, GMarshal could have gotten 25% lucky and falsified a Miller claim, knowing it was his best way to take the heat off. It's a stretch, but it's definitely possible. Then why was I so sure that there was a miller all of yesterday? Trust me, I haven't falsified anything, or else I would have thrown in something about "since you are always out at night you always avoid the first hit to target you" in order to throw the mafia off further. I haven't duped anyone, One of Csth, steff and Karshe is godfather go, its a question of figuring out which. Actually, I have the beginnings of a plan. Palmar, of the above three, is there any you trust to be town 100%? | ||
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On June 17 2011 06:24 Palmar wrote: ##Vote GMarshal Thats stupid and will cost us the game. Answer my question, outside of rean is there anyone you trust 100% to be town? Also, I might as well throw this out there from a balance perspective, it makes no sense for me to be a mafia miller. Seriously what are your arguments for lynching me again? | ||
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Let me break it down, my commentary in bold + Show Spoiler + On June 16 2011 07:26 Palmar wrote: I'm interested. While I haven't stated I'd shoot GMarshal there are several good reasons for killing him. Let's have a look at his "accomplishments" Calling out bum, whose role got leaked. Well so did I, and I am bad. Voting for Wiggles... well duh. Killing Kurumi, again... duh, he was an outed SK. Killing Jackal, once again, obvious choice, I am bad at this game, and I was independently calling for exactly the same thing, I think before GM called for it. DropBear: yes, this was good. I will agree to that. But was it a bus or was it a good call? So I did all these "obviously" pro town things, while the rest of the town twiddled their thumbs, I produced a monstrous, in depth analysis of DropBear but you are just handwaving it all away as if it were nothing, because some of the stuff was "obvious", when some if not most of the town was not doing this "obvious" stuff. Quite simply, if the jackal lynch was clearly the best move, why wasn't it an unanimous vote? GMarshal keeps rehashing these achievements in his defense, but most of it seems like obvious reasoning. Now let's move on to reason number 2 to shoot GM He has a freaking KP that we can't control. No, no i dont, 2 daggers, as redFF revealed, the only thing I can do now is PM people And finally bumatlarge Eternalmisfit Kurumi Jackal58 Karshe GMarshal Amber[LighT] Cthsazsa Rean hiro protagonist GMarshal Palmar Rean DropBear stefftastiq Amber[LighT] two lists. both lists have two mafia on them. By exclusion the remaining mafia is GMarshal or Amber. Except, of course, there might be a miller type role. so Rean, if you know something I don't. Please explain why GMarshal is a bad kill? I think I'm shooting redFF, but I really want to know why you say killing GMarshal is stupid. But wait! we KNOW theres a miller, and by induction that there is a GODFATHER role. Seriously man, you have NO case against me, are you so scared of me you are going to kill me without thinking? Or are you pissed I got you lynched? because from a logical perspective your actions make *no* sense... | ||
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So, you are 100% sure he is town? Like, "willing to bet the outcome of the game" on him being town sure? | ||
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On June 17 2011 06:59 Palmar wrote: Why did you check amber and not karshe or Cthsazha Anyway, what should we do? I have a plan, but it depends entirely on how sure you are of your read of Cthsazha. Are you willing to bet the outcome of the game on him being town? | ||
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On June 17 2011 07:18 Palmar wrote: your plan depends on me trustin you're town. I'm going to take my advice from Rean. Nope, this is a plan that makes me lose if I'm mafia, let me get it written up. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ShUn-AJYRbQ/SwEtAF1ckPI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/r1hFBX3Ww-g/s1600/eagle.jpg) Its time I handed you the game guys, since its obvious no scumhunting is going to help with people who showed no real thought thought the game. Palmar is sure Cthsazsa is green. So, I'm going to gamble the entire game on that one read, mostly because I agree with it. This plan is going to abuse the fact that the mafia lacks enough KP to kill all the confirmed townies, so what we are going to do today is lynch Karshe, because I find him more likely to be mafia than steff. Then Palmar will shoot steff. If Karshe flipped green then steff will flip red. That night the mafia has to kill rean, which if I were mafia only leaves me, Palmar and Cthsazsa, if we reach that point, then Cthsazsa and Palmar lynch me. Its a win win situation, whatever happens we kill all the unconfirmed townies and leave only Palmar and his #1 (and my #1) town read alive. Again, if I'm scum, I can't win with this plan. Which is why we need to follow it. | ||
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On June 17 2011 07:23 Palmar wrote: did you stick anyone in your circle tonight GMarshal Cthsazsa, I'm talking with him right now, we are discussing steff as a possibly better lynch candidate than Karshe | ||
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On June 17 2011 08:06 Palmar wrote: i like GM's plan. One change, we lynch Cthsazsa the last day and he kills GMarshal I'll be the last man standing Works for me. Its not like we are going to get that far anyway. So, who do you want to lynch today? | ||
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I'll even vote for whoever you tell me, its just a question of pride. (yes, I know its stupid, sorry) | ||
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On June 17 2011 08:29 Palmar wrote: No, because the hole in the plan is the (unlikely) chance of you being mafia and (again unlikely) having a sacrifice KP left. No offense, but I like my bases covered. RedFF revealed my role, I don't have any KP left, and fuck it, you know I'm almost guaranteed to be town. Lynch steff instead, Cstha has a pretty decent analysis of him written up. All I'm asking for is a little trust, for getting DB lynched at the very least. I think I earned it. | ||
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##Vote: stefftastiq | ||
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On June 18 2011 00:56 Palmar wrote: yep. and in case his cult has a majority win condition, and in case he's scum or third party Wouldn't RedFF have revealed that if it were the case? I'm pretty sure that would be part of the role description. I mean the cult having a majority win-condition, obviously he wouldn't know if I was a serial killer or scum. There is one thing that RedFF didn't reveal about my role, at my bequest (when he was interrogating me in PM's I asked him not to ^_^), but I'm only willing to share it if I'm in real danger of dying, as it may give the enemies of the town a chance to fuck me over. Can you trust me at least until tonight? I'd rather not share it at all, but its rather important that I survive until tomorrow. | ||
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On June 18 2011 02:36 Palmar wrote: i want to lynch gm. No doubt you do. Please, ignore all my contributions and just lynch me! Seriously, make a case or don't, but don't lynch "just because" | ||
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On June 18 2011 02:51 Rean wrote: ##Vote: GMarshal I'm not going to pass on a plan that guarantees a town victory. I don't care what parts of your role may or may not exist. And lynching me later also guarantees town victory. I guess I might as well claim this shit then. I didn't want to claim because I was afraid the mafia would take a revenge shot but w/e The last part of my role pm reads "In addition to your alignment based win conditions, you must ensure the survival of the cult, you can only win if you are still alive at the end of the game" Are you guys seriously going to fuck my wincondition even after I slaughtered the mafia for you? really? Again if by tomorrow we haven't nailed the mafia then I'm 100% ok with you lynching me in retribution for my plan failing, but I've come *this* close to winning with you guys, are you *really* going to fuck me over like this? | ||
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On June 18 2011 03:37 Palmar wrote: how about lynching cthzasza to remove his kp, then i shoot steff. i have better town read on karshe than cth. We can do that if you really want, but I'm almost 100% convinced cthzasza is town. | ||
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United States22154 Posts
On June 18 2011 03:58 Palmar wrote: damn gm, you are good at this game. i think you are the remaining mafia, i think you have a knife left, you only used one to kill kurumi, the other is the still missing mafia kp from day 3 or something. even if im wrong, then im sorry, but my win is more important than your win. you played well, any side you flip as was lucky to have you. town, lynch gm Go through the day posts, its 100% clear that the cultist leader used two sacrifices. It appears in the day post so theres no way I'm lying. Don't fuck over my win condition. I can't kill anyone. Come on, I *almost* have a win in the bag for us. It all adds up. Again, worst comes to worst you lynch me tomorrow. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 18 2011 04:21 Palmar wrote: yep, you're right, sorry. it dont matter though, i am sorry if you're telling the truth. this isnt done out of spite, or anything like that. i have tons of respect for you, but this is a game and i want to win, so ill do whatever i think is best for town. im putting my faith in rean being town, and my entire revision of your plan is created around this. Sure Rean is town. Town =/= right. If he is town then he is getting shot tonight, because the mafia can't afford confirmed townies. Again, I don't see the issue with letting me live another night, and if we haven't won, lynching me tomorrow. Seriously, I've played super town this entire game. All I need is to make it to tomorrow, and we win, come on rean and palmar, don't make me fucking lose ;_; | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 18 2011 04:38 Palmar wrote: i feel sorry for you, whoever created your cultist miller survivor role basically made sure youd lose this game. but again, i want to win. And you will. Changing the order of the kills dosn't change anything except letting me win. Come ON! You *know* I'm town, I've done nothing but contribute (bar day 1 and 2, sorry about that). There is no case, I don't understand why you won't just agree to kill me last. I have no tricks up my sleeve, no aces left. I can only win if you let me. Point out a single anti-town action from me, a single post pushing scummy objectives. My posts weep of being green, and still you want to kill me for some undefined reason. I have no KP, and nothing I can do to hurt the town. Why? I still don't understand why rean's alignment is relevant btw, my whole plan was drafted around him being town and getting shot tonight, which is what is going to happen with 90% probability. I can win with you guys, I've been trying to all game long, and the possibility is right there within my grasp. Town is going to win no matter what, why do you want to steal my join victory.... *sigh* ;_; | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 18 2011 05:46 Palmar wrote: explain how I know you're town. you know redff1s' investigative ability has a 25% chance of failing. Judge me by my actions. I've killed two mafia and two serial killers. I've pushed those I deemed scum, with arguments, logic and analysis. You can't come up with a single scummy post of mine, or prove, even to yourself that I am scum. Yet you still want to lynch me. We kill who we think to be scum here, period, we don't kill people who are likely town to "reduce risk" especially when that risk is fictitious. Also, I hadn't actually read that last part about redFF's power in the day post. I wasn't aware of that, so I suppose it still lends your arguments *some* credence. | ||
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GMarshal
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We don't even know steff's role. No one has checked him and no one has claimed it. How do you know he dosn't have a gun. I don't have any shennanigans to pull and you know it. You just want me dead. I can accept that, but don't hide it under "oh its the best play". It isn't it makes not one whit of difference what order we do it in. You are ignoring a second major fact. How do you know its *mafia* we are dealing with. What if whats left is a serial killer. A list checking serial killer. I doubt it is, but it will be interesting to see what happens if Rean dosn't die tonight, no? Sure, cth is clear and so are you and lets accept that rean is. How do you know karshe dosn't have a hand grenade as part of his role? How do you know steff dosn't have a mindblast that can kill a player? You don't, you are just deadset on killing me. Of the three, I'm the only one who's role is actually fully disclosed, and confirmed by an outside source. Yet I'm the most likely to pull shennanigans? Once again, you have no real reason to kill me. Or at least no logical reason to. | ||
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GMarshal
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Seriously though, my role is the only semiconfirmed of the three, and I'm out of kills. You should absolutely be killing me *last* either way, I'll wait until Rean pops by and sees my logic. | ||
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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On June 18 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote: yeah, I wasn't going to draw up "mafia, or sk, or something else anti town". But you get the point. I've commited to that read, and I'm sticking to it, cause no one has told me I'm an idiot for it. I kinda rely on people telling me I'm an idiot. Oh, is that all you need? You are an idiot then, vote for someone else! did it work? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 18 2011 07:29 Rean wrote: I created Karshe's role. He's harmless (unless you count rickrolling people as harming). It's between steff and GMarshal here, and i'm not entirely set on who to lynch yet, but GMarshal does seem like the better option for now. And you know I'm harmless too. Seriously man, give me a chance to win with you, worst case scenario you have to lynch me tomorrow, and I'm 100% confident we won't reach that stage. | ||
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GMarshal
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I *really* appreciate it. Don't bother apologizing, next time I'll leave you idiots to keep shooting into the town and killing each other. Oh, and for the record, I'm not only town, but I also know that theres a mafia and a serial killer left. I should thank Barundar for crumbing that, I wouldn't have realized in time. Now my trap is out the window. And after killing me, we lose for sure. Which is what you morons have earned. | ||
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GMarshal
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Because you are too scared of a good player to see the common sense he is pointing out. gg wp, mr serial killer and mafia, I take my hat of to you, you proved that this town can't find its ass with both hands, much less figure out a clever plan. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 03:06 Karshe wrote: How is Cthsazsa killing me if you're shooting Steff? Afraid that Cth's shot will go through your vests, Mr. I volunteer to be shot, because I know I can't die? Or maybe you are the mafia and salivating at the fact you don't get shot tonight, and come dawn you can ally with the sk to off palmar. I suggest you both vote for him at dawn, it guarantees that one of you will win, probably the mafia. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 03:16 Karshe wrote: I am voting with Palmar because he is our only CONFIRMED 100% town and he is also our Vig. You're grasping at straws GM, Cthsazsa does not have a "shot." His role that *I* wrote specifically says it goes through all forms of protection. That said, I am still fine with switching over to Steff because I think he is most likely to be mafia. But decide quick, I'm leaving the house in 10 minutes. Palmar is town, sure. That dosn't make him right. As a matter of fact, based on his track record I'd argue that if we eck out a win it will be *in spite of* Palmar's "contributions". I never said she had a shot, I'm talking about her death vigi that goes through bp. Like serial killer vests. See, you don't care who dies as long as it isn't you. Thats not a very town trait. You know what, fuck it all, you guys want to fuck me over after everything I've done for you, for absolutely no reason other than this intangible "gm is dangerous, OH NO, he is a *decent player* whose role has been *fully* revealed, by an outside source. He is a clear and present danger" You guys are screwing me over and yourselves, because, hey, why not, I mean lets just rob GM of any chance of winning after everything he has done for us. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 03:24 Karshe wrote: Cthsazsa couldn't be a SK, right? The only thing I found odd was the night he chose GMarshal, before Cthsazsa was even dead. And there were two nights in a row where Amber protected GM. I'd give you my thoughts, but since I apparently can't win anymore I have no interest in helping. You fuck me over, then I'll make sure you get the same back. I'm going to laugh and laugh at Palmar when the serial killer/mafia wins. You DO NOT lynch townies who are obviously not scum, but obviously that basic tenet of town play hasn't been absorbed yet. I'm sure that this spectacular loss will make it something to be remembered. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 03:32 Karshe wrote: EBWOP: Also, Cthsazsa is not following Palmar's plan. Ok, leaving for real now, I'm late. GM, you're either taking this game way too personally, or putting on quite a masterful performance. Of course I'm fucking taking it personally. I've read the thread over 6 times, all 170 pages of it. I've solved the game and played more pro-town than ever. And in repayment you guys are going to throw it all away. If thats what you want to do, than fine. But dont expect me to take it laying down. | ||
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GMarshal
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Again, really, really sorry if I offended you by calling you bad, you didn't play that terrible at all, I just desperately needed to make you doubt yourself. If you are pissed at me feel free to lambast me in PM's I had no intention of making you feel bad :/ If you quit because of me I'll be sad, I'm sorry ;_; | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 06:37 Barundar wrote: This was a pickle. We met on IRC, and I argued for killing Palmar with Jackal, and go into a shoot off end game, where we would rely on Jackal to win, but I would put our winning a chance to 50 % at best. I still think it was our best shot, but GM and DropBear however wanted to play on, so we went with majority decision + I was getting busy in RL so suited me fine to die Setup wise I think you can never let mafia KP=town KP in a game as large as this from the beginning. Would need at least 2 night KP, possible three, depending on the strength of the mafia roles. We lost the game because town had twice our KP in the end game. Game was broken horribly in the town's favor, and I'm not just talking about the list checks. Ressurection roles give confirmed townies, which are absolutely hideous for the mafia. You realize that if BC had been ressed then there was no chance of the mafia winning, right? We'd have 0 kp effectively. A vet vigi, who can become town confirmed, seriously? And I managed to talk my way out of the lists by pure miracle, we *needed* a framer or godfather. Overall this setup was hugely town favored, and essentially relied on DTs to win it. I don't think a single mafia was lynched due to analysis. | ||
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GMarshal
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As far as KP go. We got insanely lucky that the town had next to no aim. Had they not shot themselves to peices/used their roles better, we would have been exterminated twice as fast. With the bomber man, Palmar, two death vigis and a lynch, the town had more than enough KP to absolutely rock the mafia, with no real chance for the scumteam to do anything. Personally I feel like it would have been more interesting if multiple KP roles were banned, a mafia team with a medic, a role cop and a PM circle would have been really interesting, instead it seems like the mafia got handed the "traditional" mafia roles in the forms of kp and roleblockers. Another issue I had were the too restricting post restrictions, for example Amber's role takes out 80% of the fun in the mafia game, which is chatting, analyzing etc. It was *far* too harsh of a post restriction, IMO. A better post restriction is one that makes you say things in different ways, e.g. always post in verse. (Its clear that post X amount of smilies was not a *great* idea on my part, I should have chosen something less easy to sidestep.) Lastly, I though it was ironic I rolled mole again. Although I do want to thank you for hosting Decon, it was great fun and I enjoyed myself, even if palmar did end up seeing through my deceptions. Anyway, despite all the "imbalance" it was a lot of fun and I had a great time. Thanks to decon and everyone who played. Oh, yeah, do you guys want the mafia QT? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 07:28 Palmar wrote: yeah, give QT! http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/UAxPJDg5K4Q there you go ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 07:36 Cthsazsa wrote: lololol. I'm an idiot. Just a little too trusting, which is why I was so happy to be able to get you in PM land. Had I survived today you would have seen my bilayer deception, I was going to tell you I was town but was going to claim SK to survive and I was going to persuade you that Rean was a SK and make you vengeance target him. You played well overall though ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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Sorry if it cost us the game, but I was hesitant to decide the game on a coin flip. ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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Welcome to PTP Mafia, you are the High Inquisitor. You are here to purge the unclean, kill the heretic and burn the mutant. You have the following abilities. 1.) Agent of the Inquisition. Every night you may place a player under surveillance and watch who visits him at night. You'll also sniff out signs of heresy so you'll be informed if he is a evil heretic or a mutant. 2.) Emperor's Justice. You have your holy inquisitorial bolter, loaded with a single blessed bolt shell, which you can use to execute a traitor. Just type ##Execute: Player name to do so. You must include a spiel about how he is a moral threat to the safety of the imperium in the post you execute someone. 3.) Favors from on hight. You have access to some favors thanks to your high ranking connections, once per game instead you may contact the Caudillius Assassins and order them to assassinate someone at night, just PM me who you want killed, and barring special protection they will die. Also once per game you may call upon the Adeptus Arbites to investigate someone, returning their full role PM, but not their alignment. Any night you call in a favor you may not place someone under surveillance. Additional notes: 1.) You have a post restriction, as often as you can you must proclaim your fanatical love of the emperor, as well as proclaiming how suspicious you are of the heresy and mutation that surround us. Phrases such as "the taint of chaos infects this town, I can smell it, like a rot eating away at a carcass" or "In the name of the Emperor, lynch this heretic" are appropriate to your role. 2.) In addition to whatever alignment based winconditions you may have, you must kill the three heretics, which will be randomly determined by the host. You will be informed of the identities of one of each of these heretics each night (so night 1, 2 and 3 to get a full list). There is also a mutant in town, which you must also slay. You must find him on your own, although he will be informed that he is the mutant and must kill you to win. I thought that the additional win-conditions would be a bitch to deal with + I hesitated to add more KP to what was going to be an already kp saturated game. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 08:02 Karshe wrote: I just checked the vote thread again, still confused. When I woke up this morning, Steff was the first to reach 3 votes, and GMarshal had 3 votes. Then I changed my vote to GMarshal. Gmarshal had 4 votes, Steff had 2 votes. Then I changed my vote again, GMarshal and Steff both had 3 votes. Was GMarshal lynched since he had gotten up to 4 votes at one point? Again, I made both players reach 3 votes at the same time. I was considered to have majority first as I had 4 votes then 3 while steff had 2 and then 3. So I gained majority when I had four, and never lost it, since no one had more votes than me. Thats how I envision it at least. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 08:37 Palmar wrote: So yeah, formal apology to GM for counter-guilt-tripping that hard. That was over the line, sorry. Its all cool ^_^ I'll just keep the fact that you are a troll in mind for next time. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 08:51 Karshe wrote: GM, I just noticed that your true role did not include the Miller portion. So I take it you got lucky with redFF's interrogation and were able to lie about your role? Very lucky, haha. Yep, and I had unlimited kills. ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 19 2011 11:24 Mataza wrote: + Show Spoiler + GG(even though I don´t feel this game was very well played by town) I was scared by my first game with a lot of players(hard to keep track on all of them), so I didn´t really do much until I got a bomb planted on my sorry ass. I´m kinda happy I got suspicions on Barundar and GM in one of my last posts, so I was going the right direction at least. I also had Dropbear at one point, but it doesn´t count since I left him out of my last FoS post. Also I´d like to claim to being the first guy on to Bums BS. I voted him over Wiggles Day 2 even though Wiggles was also scum. Bum definitely had the more terrifying kp role with his multikill gasbomb. Also for the celebration of this awful game I made a chart how to play a vig in a game with mutiple vigs: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dtq68.jpg) I still feel the haphardly shooting of town aligned people almost handed scum the win. Jackal didn´t even shoot at all in the game. How many kills did Kurumi send in? I thought SKs had only 2 kills yet he somehow shot a third time? I know the answer to this, his kill on kita stacked with the mafia kill, but he didn't notice/didn't get the pm that his bullet had been refunded until half way through the day, at which point he decided to keep it secret | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 22 2011 04:42 Node wrote: I hope you liked your role GM, I had fun creating it. I'm disappointed that you claimed relatively early, I thought it would be really interesting from a sneaky townie perspective, but I can see why you would with the "day post info" clause, which wasn't my doing. The role did change a bit from what I submitted, but the original incarnation would be a bit broken in the hands of the mole.Deconduo, I think the game would be improved if you reduced the size to ~25 people. In a crazy setup like this, the thread is inevitably going to be a mess for the first couple of days, but I think that it would be alleviated somewhat if there were simply less people. But as it is, you couldn't pay me to read through days one and two again. I also think it would be good if you incentivized the creation of more scummy roles, but I'm not sure how you could go about that -- maybe inform a few people of their alignment ahead of time, or create a role that allows for manipulation of the rolepick procedure.I had no intention of claiming actually, Kurumi outed me -___- I was going to keep it secret and kill people on a whim/set up pm traps. It was a fun role, I love having access to PM's, I think they are one of the strongest tools, for town or scum. The revealed in the day post part didn't bother me as I had no intention of claiming | ||
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