EPTTook quite some time to open the forums to me.
I stopped checking after a while.
I sure hope this is better than the average Bnet/Epicmafia.
gl hf
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia II
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Took quite some time to open the forums to me. I stopped checking after a while. I sure hope this is better than the average Bnet/Epicmafia. gl hf | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town is, that it discourages counterclaims by mafia. If 1 mafia says he/she is the cop or the doc, it usually has some positive effect. If they want to pretend the first setup they have to show both a fake cop and fake doc. If then of them gets lynched, the other faked role goes down as well. On second thought, this is much more complicated than this. All the stuff going just from the setup would make a real long post, so I´ll stop here. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
In other words, can we decide to not lynch or are we forced to lynch every day, even if it is MyLo night? | ||
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Mataza
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For the time being, I suggest we treat this game as if it was setup 4, with 9 vanilla no cop no doc. There are times to claim cop, but there are no times to claim doc. Also looking at the many other games here in TL, many games do analysis on plans that revolve around a magnitude of roles. Which we don´t have. So dear town fellas, work hard and smart because this game is probably harder than most other games you can read on here. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 12 day1 ly nk 10 day2 ly nk 8 day 3 ly nk 6 day4 Since *not* lynching is also *not* an option, we have to get a result by day3. That is plenty of time. This should be doable. So scum is forced to lay really low, if they ever want to stand a chance. | ||
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Mataza
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Maybe I tried to think of it last because no blue roles is the very hardest to play. Btw we are 12, not 9. Cop is detective and doc is doctor, obviously..... | ||
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Mataza
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First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town  Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. | ||
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Mataza
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My bad. | ||
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Mataza
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So you say I WIFOM. Wifom is a gamble and you don´t win by gambling. (Wifom stands "wine in front of me". Look it up) I mathamatized to know how much time we have to our first scum. 3 days is a lot. I say that because on Epicmafia, were I played sometimes, there were setups with day 1 lylo. And for some reason mafia only had 50% win on that setup. Don´t know why, and I completely lost faith in the players there. Could we maybe start with the blaming once everyone has at least posted once or twice? | ||
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Mataza
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On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote: I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!" I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.) About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many. But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle. | ||
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Mataza
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I think he takes his posts very serious and deduces from himself to others. Kind of a nonquestion. While we are at nonsense, let´s talk about noncontent posts. On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). Or does he? I could understand that he is doing the same as me, trying to not be the sole active player, which means guaranteed death night 1. But is he really that active? Here all his posts of day 1 in order + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 11:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, how should we go about doing this? A little birdie told me that at the end of the day, someone's gotta die. Who's it gonna be and why? On May 16 2011 14:16 VisceraEyes wrote: It's entirely possible that AT LEAST one mafia guy WON'T understand how the game works, but according to that math, that would make at least THREE townies that DON'T understand how the game works. I don't think we should try and cast a scummy light on people trying to learn to play the game. It's a NEWBIE game after all. That being said, I DO think we should try and actively analyze posts and make the best selection for our lynch as I've NEVER condoned random lynching. On May 16 2011 15:06 VisceraEyes wrote: You guys are reading my mind. Talking will be key here. I'm going to go ahead and give you guys a general overview of how I'll be approaching this game. First of all, it's a GAME. I'll be playing. You'll be playing. We'll be playing together. These are good, happy things. If I FoS (Finger of Suspicion) you, please don't get offended. I'm sure people will be pointing a finger or two at me, and that's just fine. As I have nothing to hide, I'll generally react with interest and intrigue more than anger and concern. I ask that out of courtesy, you guys do the same. I'll analyze EVERY SINGLE post you make, and I please urge you to do the same to me. We've got to find killers here, people! They're not gonna find themselves. Also, just so everyone's aware, I'll be most active in the later evening and will be virtually invisible from early-morning to early-evening. I'm not lurking during those times, I'm genuinely not close to a computer. On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? On May 16 2011 17:05 VisceraEyes wrote: @steff Welcome to town! While I have reservations about Mataza myself, calling him trigger-happy is possibly unfair. We have to lynch someone today regardless, that's just a rule. It's our job to make sure it's someone nice and scummy.  On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise. At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. On May 17 2011 01:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Welcome Karshe, good morning everyone. I shall refrain from unduly assigning suspicion to anyone until we've heard from most everyone. For the record, I don't condone policy lynching inactives...but if someone is VERY inactive in posting, but still makes it in for their one post per cycle and voting, inactivity starts to appear scummy to me. I hope no one is offended by my initial analysis, I'm just trying to spark up conversation. More conversation = more stuff to read over and over. I like to read stuff over and over. :D Especially 2 things: Analysis+ Show Spoiler + That being said, I DO think we should try and actively analyze posts and make the best selection for our lynch as I've NEVER condoned random lynching. I'll analyze EVERY SINGLE post you make, and I please urge you to do the same to me. We've got to find killers here, people! They're not gonna find themselves. I hope no one is offended by my initial analysis, I'm just trying to spark up conversation. More conversation = more stuff to read over and over. I like to read stuff over and over. :D Okay, how should we go about doing this? A little birdie told me that at the end of the day, someone's gotta die. Who's it gonna be and why? After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? @nard Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise. At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. He talks about questions and analysis but so far there is none of both. But he does talk about them. Also he says hello a lot. He greeted us all with a little rhyme. His last 3 posts where @nard, @steff and Welcome Karshe. It just struck me as very odd to claim doing stuff you don´t get around to do. Care to explain? | ||
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Mataza
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That is one kind of circular logic often used. If I don´t defend myself, it´s because I can´t think of arguments because I know I am guilty. If I do defend myself, it´s because I need to defend myself because I am guilty. Personally I just wanted to see how you would react. Right now I have the most material on you, just like everyone else has mostly material on me. Also OMGUS is kind of a weak argument. Everyone who talked (besides maybe 2 guys who have 1 post so far) suspects me. We should begin discussing lynches, since the first day is half over. Right now the suspects are mainly me and myself because I wondered how many mislynches we have. That´s not really a good start, since for example if I get lynched and you get nightkilled, only gigays and palmar are left talking fo town. Mafia would keep talking to themselves via PMs and townchat dies. And one scummy question by me: Gigays seems to defend you without a second thought. I wonder how he is so sure you´re right. I would love to talk about people who don´t suspect me, but they don´t *talk* at all. | ||
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Mataza
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+ Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. First I wanted to know how many mislynches we have. Second you can´t answer to wifom. If I say mafia must do x and I would be suspect if I do x and I would be suspect if I don´t do x because I said that mafia do x. If you want to bet your first lynch on wifom, go ahead. | ||
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Mataza
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Once there is anything substantial against me I can and will answer. | ||
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Mataza
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I just assumed because my name got used more than the letter "z" up til now. | ||
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Mataza
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I was requested to answer the "various questions". I might as well cite myself, since I answered them the first time. Especially since the questions are "Why are you wondering how the game will work out" and "You mentioned a possible behaviour of mafia, why don´t you behave like that yourself?" Yes I said the latter question is wifom. And wifom has never a definite answer.+ Show Spoiler + If I am mafia, I would not behave like a mafia. But since you expect me to not behave like a mafia, I will behave like a mafia. But you can predict that I know you expect me to not behave like mafia I will behave like mafia. Wifom is circle logic. You might as well flip a coin to determine if I am mafia. I never said I really think you are mafia, I just wanted you to react to my accusations. Your reaction is to push suspicion on me even farther while postponing why you think that. Once again, slowly, so you catch on my train of logic: Wifom is baaad. Behavioural analysis is gooood. Y U NO ANALYZE? Also, I am sorry for misspelling gigas with y. I don´t know the meaning behind it and it looks hard to pronounce the way it is written. | ||
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I said "I overestimated my town" because I had to explain what nk and ly stand for, that cop doesn´t stand for doctor and that this game is 9 town vs 3 mafia, not 6 vs 3. That a single leader is bad for town is obvious. People who gather under 1 leader are following, not playing. That is not the fault of the leader, but the fault of the town, since they obey for no good reason. Leading in itself is what everyone should aim for. For the sake of having material, I request Palmar, Hiro Protagonist, Deepblue, Steff, Karshe and Nard to mouth their opinion on whether Mataza, Viscera eyes or Giygas might be mafia. Don´t group Viscera and giygas together even if they have the same opinion. Giygas bandwagoned, but he might simply be new to mafia. + Show Spoiler + Right now I think Wunder and Skrammen will be modkilled. If they are not modkilled, then they are highly suspicious for not saying anything. There is nothing to lose so take a stand. Use your own brain though, the person you copy you opinion from might be mafia. Even me. I will assume to be on trial, together with Viscera and Gig. I will henceforth only post if you specifically ask @Mataza, until everyone else has voiced an opinion. I would like you Viscera and Gig to do so, too. | ||
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Mataza
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I do state the obvious since this is a newbie game. And since the very beginning I had the feeling that some people do not know how this really works. I also "defend" myself as people are requesting answers for questions that they don´t write. I especially like "various questions". Giygass requests answers for nonsensical questions. Viscera took what I said and distorted it. His point on me provoking wifom is wrong. I urge you to reread that. I will make my cases later in the day. It´s 8 in the morning over here, gotta get busy. | ||
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Mataza
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Who would I lynch? Good question. So far I behaved very provocative without telling much in hope a scum would slip clearly. There might be slips, but they are not obvious. Also it is harder to stay objective when being focussed thern I thought. I can´t say for sure just yet. But I will begin working on my cases now | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Sounds good on paper. The disadvantage of course are heavy. Next to nobody thinks of these options and town will most likely push suspicion on you, the real cop will do that the hardest, giving himself away. That means if town overreacts, you not only miss a lynch but mafia gets a freehit on the real cop at night. It´s highly hypothethical now since it didn´t happen. My comments on possible mafia behaviour were meant to taunt mafia into activity. Mafia who post heavily are prone to slipping, for example if they mix up real logic with scum logic. It might have worked, we need to analyze specific people to get any of that. Longer analysis posts coming soon. | ||
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Mataza
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FoS Giygas. All his posts:+ Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 14:46 GiygaS wrote: I agree. Everyone should make a short little post, so we can immmediately get some background info on each person. If we get lucky, we may catch a Mafia (who knows :D) On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA. On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote: I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote: What do you think of the whole inactive debate? I think first day we should give them a break, but as they are more and more inactive we may want to infer scummyness. Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P On May 17 2011 03:51 GiygaS wrote: I want you to respond to what I've said. I'll quote everything we've "asked you" right now: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. On May 17 2011 08:06 GiygaS wrote: Hey guys, just ogt home form school from my 1 hour trip. :/ I am now Gigays, okay. Also, Mataza, when did I defend VisceraEyes. I only have asked you to answer our questions, that's it. If there was ever an accusation, I would never go, but Viscera didn't do that, etc. To clarify something: Why say something if you think it would just WISOM? Is it to confuse all of us? Anyway, I kind of FoS you, as you've really been the only one anyone can :/ Seriously people, TALK! P.S. To anyone who actually knows what GiygaS is: NESSNESSNESSNESSNESS On May 17 2011 12:30 GiygaS wrote: Finally, more then 3 people talking! Welcome to the game prp and nard, nice to see some europeans now. Inactives: 2 Guys we haven't seen, may get modkilled. Can't make an opinion on them yet. Karshe: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't really posted anything good at all. Might get modkilled, I don't know about him. stefftastiq: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't posted much but a brief "hello". Mentionned something about people being trigger-happy. I'm a tad suspicious as he should have posted again by now. Deepblu2 + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm. On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. Deepblu just posted so I haven't really had a chance to analyse his most recent post, but I'll give it a shot. His first post detailed how he's indeed "active" and he's formulating an opinion. Initially a bit scummy, if he hadn't posted anything, but he has now, so that lowers a bit of his suspicion. Based on his recent entry, he's leaning towards Mataza, based on his defensive stance. Overall, hasen't really produced much content, so I can't really say much about him. More active people: Mataza + Show Spoiler + Now, this guy seems a bit scummy to me, PROBABLY the most so far. The reasons have been brought up already: - He's implying he wants to become A leader of the town (maybe so he can control people? I don't know) - He is very defensive about his spot, very resilient to abandon anything. I don't know if this means he's mafia, but a person who goes out his way to say he's innocent seems a bit guilty :/ - Mentioned how many days Mafia has to stay alive. Good just be some helpful math. - HOWEVER after all this, he said he puts himself officially on trial. And he will only answer questions specifically asked at him. This implies he knows he has done wrong and wants to get a bit out of the spotlight. This is most likely because he's tired of constantly defending himself, but it could also be that he's Mafia and wants to sink back in to the shadows. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Also, he's got my name wrong twice now (it's not gigays, or gigas, it's giygas  )VisceraEyes: + Show Spoiler + Got into Mataza as soon as the game begun, might just because he wants activity. The fact he HAS been avoiding questions to attack Mataza some more, which may imply he's trying to avoid them so that he doesn't have any answers. Don't know what I think of him, a bit suspicious. prplhz (anyone got tricks for this guy's name? )+ Show Spoiler + Seems very rational to me. Got some more discussion other then the back and forth between me, Mataza and VisceraEyes. Seems very pro-town to me, but once again, your best friends can sometimes be your worst enemies. I'm not very suspicious of him. nard + Show Spoiler + Kind of interesting. This guy has posted three times. Once to remind us all that it's too early to start making conclusions about Mataza, one that reminds us all that we have 48 hours before we have to make a decision and to take some time, and finally one that answers some suspicions on his first post, and saying he's not too suspicious of Mataza, and suspicous of me and Viscera (more Viscera). I don't know what this means, but IF we find out that Mataza is indeed a Mafia, I believe this guy is probably a cohort based on his behind-the-scenes support for the guy. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Has mostly mentioned inactives and getting some debate going on that topic. He may just be curious. That said, he was the first one to mention and notice Nard's post on being saying it was difficult to post the first time. Hasen't really added a lot of real content, but I believe he's pro-town. Only the minutest amount of suspicion. hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum... best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... That's his only post. Unfortunately, we don't get any background info on what country he lives in, so we can't analyse when he'll post. Unfortunate :/ The fact that he did add SOMETHING (scum have probably posted) shows he MIGHT be pro-town in his behavior. Don't know what to think on him due to inactivity. EDIT: Okay, he just posted another one that added a bit more content, so I moved him down here. Basically listing his suspicions. Seem's a bit more mafia now to be honest based on his bandwagonning to everyone else, but he may just agree with some people. EDIT: Yes, this is my first time EVER playing mafia, so this is a new experience for me. i'm gonna be interested to see if anything else develops. On May 17 2011 12:35 GiygaS wrote: Even if I note EDIT? And the post mentionned editing when it was posting. Sorry, it's already been done D: On May 17 2011 12:50 GiygaS wrote: Yeah, sorry. What can I do now though? Won't do it again BTW. On May 17 2011 15:46 GiygaS wrote: Are you writing my name wrong on purpose. Seriously. On my demanding answers to nonsensical questions, how is asking you: + Show Spoiler + - On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? To which you respond "Oh, I wanted to know how many times we can fail." + Show Spoiler + - What is your thoughts on this sentence: On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. To which you responded with a link to this thing call WIFOM. And all I could think about at this point in time is then; "Why did you say that in the first place" On the point of you bashing Karshe, he never said I was doing a great job, of say generating content. He said I was doing a great job of generating discussion. My intent throughout that afternoon.I even said: + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote: Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P Finally, I re-read Viscera's point on me, where he says: + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Feels green except for how quickly he jumped on Mata after I even hinted at a reddish hue. This immediately AFTER a very friendly post encouraging people to post. Left me thinking 'Why, so you could immediately CAPSLOCKMAFIA them like Mata? Watch carefully. Actually, I didn't call him the mafia in all caps. this is actually what I said: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA. Now notice here that I said "Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA". By this, I meant that I was imagining people screaming at each other: "HE LIED LOW HE IS THE MAFIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" etc etc. When I realized that these words, especially the capital letters, were indeed misunderstood, i made a brief apology. So when if ever, did I CAPSLOCKMAFIA Mata? On May 17 2011 23:02 GiygaS wrote: I feel it appropriate to respond to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about what people say. With this, we can certainly deduce that quotes are important, yes? I have not twisted anyone's thinking thus far, I have not accused anyone. I have merely said "Well, what about this?" When have I turned against Viscera? The only reason I'm even suspecting them is because they are the only ones with enough content to analyse. No, I wasn't the first one to attack Mataza either, it WAS Viscera, who indeed targeted me in his post as well (A bit, not too much). How have I been sly BTW, is when i'm pretty up-front about things? Now, I didn't use quotes or responses here to defend myself (Which I have never actually really had to do yet except once, good sample size). While the fact you have really only written 2 paragraphs, and are already blaming people is a bit scummy to me. That said, I don't think you're Mafia. JOKE: I wouldn't suspect Mataza as my biggest threat if I was Mafia, because he can't even spell my name right. At least you can't spell his. On May 17 2011 23:04 GiygaS wrote: Now I mean this as only I tiny bit of suspicion, but wouldn't that also imply: " I need to talk to my scum mates, so I'll get back to you on that one?" At first I assumed he was simply a colossal sheep, but his last posts changed this for me. He distances himself from being the first one fossing me. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 23:02 GiygaS wrote: I feel it appropriate to respond to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about what people say. With this, we can certainly deduce that quotes are important, yes? I have not twisted anyone's thinking thus far, I have not accused anyone. I have merely said "Well, what about this?" When have I turned against Viscera? The only reason I'm even suspecting them is because they are the only ones with enough content to analyse. No, I wasn't the first one to attack Mataza either, it WAS Viscera, who indeed targeted me in his post as well (A bit, not too much). How have I been sly BTW, is when i'm pretty up-front about things? Now, I didn't use quotes or responses here to defend myself (Which I have never actually really had to do yet except once, good sample size). While the fact you have really only written 2 paragraphs, and are already blaming people is a bit scummy to me. That said, I don't think you're Mafia. JOKE: I wouldn't suspect Mataza as my biggest threat if I was Mafia, because he can't even spell my name right. At least you can't spell his. He is still hiding behind Viscera and his reasoning even after Viscera dropped his FoS against me. If he was town I would expect him to come up with his own reasoning and standing up for it. Also note that he casts suspicion right back at deepblu. The best thing yet, he is scummy because of having suspicions after only writing 2 paragraphs. He then immediately takes it back. Purpose of that: None/inflating post length; for town Inflating post length/casting suspicion on someone; for mafia Even better, why is having an opinion after 2 paragraphs scummy? Because I said so. I said, often quoted, that laying low is what mafia should do. Also this is an immediate response to being called mafia by deepblu. My second point is the question affair. It annoys me to hell. + Show Spoiler + Aren´t those 2 very great questions? Imagine you were asked these. Especially the mafia behaviour question. Would your answer be conclusive for anything? You might be mafia so why don´t you behave exactly the opposite? Now if you would ask yourself this question, you would notice it´s not a really good question. You want hard evidence as town. This is not the least bit hard evidence. Giygas however takes it very seriously. It is scary to him, very scary indeed. He assumes it is scary to everyone else. That´s why keeps asking this question. Third point: Blatant Blaming + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 23:04 GiygaS wrote: Now I mean this as only I tiny bit of suspicion, but wouldn't that also imply: " I need to talk to my scum mates, so I'll get back to you on that one?" Why not just drop it and just say Mataza is mafia. My conclusion: He is talking a lot, quoting a whole lot, but not really thinking a lot. He recycles old posts a lot and. His own post content is chaotic and not getting anywhere. He got very defensive against deepblu, ending with casting a suspicion on him, taking it back and then trying to make a joke at the end. Giygas is mafia. ##vote Giygas | ||
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So @Palmar, why exactly do you want to keep him. He knows we are on to him. Even if he is bad mafia he will keep quiet now. While if he is gone he doesn´t distract us further. Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation. Bad town might do that as well. Both are bad for town. I am convinced that Giygas is the best lynch for today. | ||
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Paraphrased: "I have a weak excuse. Don´t modkill me." What is more probable: "I agree with the guy blaming my partner in crime. That makes me look innocent" or "I agree with the guy who was suspected the most during the day. I don´t think any of the scummy things he said were scummy, because I like to believe." If Giygas flips scum, I´d say he is our target for day 2. | ||
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I have a small hitlist already, pretty sure scum are in there. By the way, the lynchvotes are unstable. I hope we get some votes in the last hours, because if we stay under 3 votes, scum can just all vote on a townie and we waste our lynch. Hell they don´t even need to all vote. They just need to ensure a mislynch with 1 or 2 votes. People vote! | ||
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Right now only 4 people voted. You can´t be serious. | ||
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As far as I am concerned, there are 3 types of people. Leaders, who have an opinion and a plan Players, who have an opinion. Sheep, who have neither. Trying to get the situation under control so we can have uncluttered conversations is a good thing. We should care more about bandwagonjumpers. Namely Giygas and Karshe. Karshe may have jumped on the bandwagon so late that it passes by unnoticed, but he said he sounded sure Giygas is town and I am mafia. After he noticed the bandwagon was dead, he instantly dropped suspicion on me and now wants to lynch inactives. By now I am pretty sure that no mafia is inactive, but instead very outspoken. | ||
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You really think Skrammen is the best lynch? I can´t get my head around how anyone can think that. Also purples reasoning for that sounds a lot like giygas reasoning. He has posted only 2 paragraphs and already votes. Sounds eerily familiar to me. Especially if you consider that Giygas is just voting on some random inactive person and trying not to slip up. He is so silent all of a sudden. And yet prp agrees to vote some random inactive dude. Wtf? | ||
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It was a taunt and it was intentional. It´s the fear of being catched. | ||
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DeepBlu2 Palmar prplhz VisceraEyes Skrammen Giygas prplhz GiygaS DeepBlu2 Mataza Skrammen If I did not mess up counting(I used all my 10 fingers too) a last minute switch to skrammen could cost us the lynch. You should be aware what could and probably will happen if we spread the votes too thin. prplhz will be top priority for the cop tonight, if we have a cop, that is. | ||
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On May 18 2011 08:18 GiygaS wrote: If we were mafia, why didn't we target Deepblu? Then it would have been even. :/ The point is, we're not. Who exactly is we? And I am sure "you" could, you just don´t because it would increase suspicion against "them". | ||
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@Viscera, Change your list. Drop palmar, add Karshe. I was suspicious of him the moment he was sure of giygas being town, but no sure of you. | ||
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Prplhz went from fine to scummy incredibly fast. There might be a slight twist ahead, but luckily we have at least 1 mislynch(unless 4 people are modkilled). | ||
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It was kinda hard to not point a finger at someone who pointed at me first. 3 actives, 2-3 half actives, 7 inactives. The thing is, you can´t really discuss who is mafia with few to nothing to go on. You have to put stress back and see who falters. Holding out for inactives at this point is pointless. It´s 2 hours to go. I can´t see much changing right now. At least nothing that makes me think giygas is town, after he began by hiding behind visceras reasoning, without contributing more than 1 original thought. | ||
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Nothing is set in stone. Until tomorrow morning you can´t be sure if that´s my actual hitlist. I intended to post it at the end of the night. I am pretty nervous right now. If Giygas is simply a bad town I am guaranteed day2 lynch. That would be 2 mislynches, putting us in pretty bad shape. It´s nerve wrecking for me. I might lose all cred in 1 hour. | ||
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Talk about dramatic last minute appearance. | ||
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6. Skrammen 7. stefftastiq 8. DeepBlu2 11. Wunder 12. nard To me lynching inactives doesn´t look that safe. Maybe you´re right. But I, right now, can´t be arsed to care for anything else, since my cred falls and rises with giygas alignment. | ||
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I am convinced Giygas is the safest lynch. After accusation he had a total change of behaviour. He never explained why he doesn´t think I am the maf anymore. And he votes Skrammen. By that logic alone I am sure, no, even convinced that skrammen will flip town. Right now 6 people vote Skrammen. It might be ballsy to lynch the 3rd most active person of the first half of day 1. One doesn´t win by going the safe route all the time. Sooner or later we have to lynch someone "important" Dammit. Get your own opinion and don´t just recycle one that looks good and safe. | ||
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If Giygas flips scum, prplhz will try to sanitize his credibility with this last minute switch. This game might still get interesting. | ||
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But that is going into a later analysis of mine. | ||
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Very relieving. Just to provide an intro to scumhunt nr 2, I would like some of you to try and think like scum. Being second on a lynch without providing any original content was apparently Giygas plan. We have to assume that it is indeed possible 1 or even both of the other scum voted for Giygas lynch. From my point of view he was irredeemably lost. Don´t fall for the trap of only hunting people who voted different. You hunt scum not by a single indication, but by putting together a puzzle. And yes, this should be obvious. Still not many really did that. Scumhunting begins tomorrow anew. Our Last minute posters have to make up for what they didn´t do day 1. | ||
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You even qualify for chainsaw defense, blaming me while defending him. We have 72 hours to observe you | ||
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You know what you should do now. Don´t overthink and go for the obvious. | ||
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My safe list contains: deepblu2 Skrammen (myself obviously) (viscera) This of course needs qualification. I actually just found out that deepblu was on to giygas before me. Not very active, still right. Skrammen. 1 post. Still right. I think it´s safe to assume Mafs are going to be active. Way more active then these 2. I put Viscera half on the list. He may be all over the place and not the most solid player, but he is constant. No change in behaviour even after my initial small analysis. That means he either doesn´t fear suspicion because he knows he is innocent or he has My main suspects as of right now are Palmar and Karshe. On the other hand, we shouldn´t really do that much at night. Maybe pray that we got a favorable setup. | ||
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And I claim of course magnificient scumhunting that led to successful lynch. Magnificient  | ||
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I on the other hand, am dead shit as shit, unless a certain doctor, who I hope is in the game, is on me. More coming soon. | ||
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Analyze prplhz -His tone is very rational, yet he does an emotional response to giygas flipping scum. ("I can´t believe this.") -He looks methodical in his approach and suggests he is a high priority target for the nightkill, even after he has proven to have been pretty much useless up til now. Under that light, he increased his usefulness by voting for Giygas. Be very wary of him. I don´t have the time to analyze properly. | ||
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I don´t really think Palmar is scum. He is just very cautious. He hopes we have blue roles to make our life easier and doesn´t want to risk much until then. I can totally get behind that. Of course no one is ever with 100% certainty innocent. But if he is mafia he is damn good. Much better than I have *ever* seen. | ||
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I am very suspicious of Karshe. -He referred the fact, that this is "openly a newbie game" multiple times. He wants us to take it easy. -While he did that, he referred also to some more advanced concepts, like OMGUS and Lynch All Liars. -He did a small chainsaw defense for Giygas, blaming me while saying Giygas is town. Had no opinion on Visceras *at all*(Which is kinda hard, because Giygas obviously copied all his behaviour from Viscera). He needs a good explanation for that. Dissect it from Scum logic/logic translation. -He accuses me of going for "noobtown" cred by explaining some more methodical stuff. All the while he did that too.(OMGUS, LAL) I recommend being very cautious of anyhting he said so far. He either has a horrible read, as he said himself or he is a scum that wants to get easy town cred by saying it´s just a newbie game and explaining how some things work. A Post by post analysis of every single of his posts will help town greatly in every way. Either he is a caught maf or he is a town with bad intuition. | ||
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Hope I survive the night. Btw, Karshe also assumes Viscera is scum, by saying he never gave up fos on me. But Viscera dropped his fos long ago. | ||
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Stop arguing. You are prolly both town. Vis, if you trust me at all, drop it. I can´t really say much more. Palmar, I think there are more obvious targets than Vis. You said yourself Vis is a bit random. On the other hand Karshe is calm, collected and utterly wrong. The more I read his post history, the more i am sure. | ||
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In hindsight, everyone suddenly agrees Giygas was obvious. Remember who pushed him? Alone? To be a little arrogant, my read is maybe the strongest in the game. | ||
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That sure stops me dead in the tracks. Too bad he was actually one of the more active posters. Still our lurking faction has to speak up today. The show must go on. | ||
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Look at it this way: It is entirely possible that we have a doctor. It is entirely reasonable that said doctor is going to protect either me, you or someone of the other actives. They chose to kill the guy with the horrible read on the reds, Karshe. Then it makes sense, doesn´t it? Now if that way of thinking is right, the only question is who does think prplhz or palmar get protected and why. And my first line "I thought about claiming cop...." was nothing in particular. Before this I only played on epcimafia and the sc2 map, both of which only last for an hour or so and revolve heavily around power roles. In both games claiming cop is viable for everyone, townies, scum, real cop, I even saw a doctor claiming cop once. It is incredibly risky of course. It´s still better than saying "hello everyone" in my book. | ||
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They prolly chose Karshe because his horrible read makes him the least likely target for the doctor. And that´s kinda ok, since I would lynch our doctor if he went out of his way and protected the least important/active/good looking people. | ||
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Vis eyes is spinning and changing direction like a magnet taped to a ventilatorblade. I am x posts away from a policy lynch against Vis, where x is when I get too annoyed. Here is the thing: Some are reading too much into Karshes death. We might as well hunt for mafia in GMarshal´s posts. My point here is, the mafia is as uncertain about the setup as we are. They fear a good doctor and they fear a good cop. And that´s why they maybe don´t kill the people they want to actually kill. Btw, I am considering a very risky move. It would shed some light on an active player, but also guarantee his death night 2 if he is inno or day3 when he is scum. If I´m wrong you will probably hate me. On the bright side, no mislynch possible. Would you consider it to be worth it? | ||
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The only thing I can take away from that, is he got genuinely nervous because of deepblu´s accusation. That was one of his last posts with any content, too. His mates probably told him to be silent after that. Just a hunch of mine. My read on Giygas is the only thing I trust right now. On a side note, inactivity becomes a problem again. As much as I hate to, but I think a policy lynch might be needed. People post. If you have nothing else, post your gut feeling. Sincerety is at least tell. Also be critical and use your own brain . | ||
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Look at your own posts, you are hysterical and your posts contain more red sprinkles than a butcher convention. You are all over the place, switching your fos, announcing to have solved the game and then switching again. Stop posting any little thought you have. Post bigger and better ones. | ||
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It´s way harder than yesterday though. Suddenly there are all these people posting :D But at least town is acting on its own now. I will make a longer post when and if I can make a good contribution. | ||
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Argh | ||
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I really want to hear a fourth opinion. | ||
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He still gives me a chaotic read. His behaviour overall seems a little.....off. Like he is planning spontaneous responses. He talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control. Literally. He doesn´t want to help lead the town, he only talks about control. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote: (Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces He mostly points out things that are bad or "harmful" for town, but never about things that actually help us. All that, while he goes out of his way and calls himself important enough to be the nightkill, because "they might be afraid that I will try to rally people". Him rallying people never looked probable or even possible to me. After rereading all his posts, there is only 2 explanations in my mind: 1) He is greatly holding back, while thinking he is absolutely invaluable. He doesn´t know in the least how he appears to the town 2) He is scum trying to be perceived as invaluable, a good analyst. With superior knowledge he has a deep understanding of what actually happens. But because he is Mafia, he cannot post why his maf buddies are suspicious. I really, really want to think he is town since he was quite active. It just doesn´t fit somehow. | ||
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No problem. I see a huge opening right now, even improved by your own post. It´s about blue roles. Plan A(don´t do this anymore): I ask the Doctor to claim openly. If we have 2 doctors, we know 1 of them is scum. Sounds good initially. BUT this of course has huge flaws. In the worst case we lose the doctor for nothing. Plan B: Cop claim openly. ASAP. Prplhz claims to have been roleblocked. He also says he is only townie. We have very likely a doctor. If there really is a roleblocker, we have a cop. And if we have a cop, who is not prplhz(since he just claimed townie), we can verify the setup. What we don´t have is a roleblocker and a cop. The setup is only 1 doctor. Claiming roleblock is not an uncommon strategy for scum(I don´t know why, I think it´s utter rubbish) Super duper risky plan has the following options: 1) Purple fakes roleblock. We have 1 doc, no cop 2) Purple was really blocked. Our "doctor" is scum. 3) Purple was really blocked. We have 1 cop and 1 doc. We only know if cop claims. He should. 4) Purple fakes the roleblock and we have 1 cop. In that case our scum are Purple and the doctor. Obviously 4) won´t happen. Mafia would doom itself. If we have a cop, he also has a report from the night, since Purp was blocked. I expect to have either 1) or 3) happening and both situations are very clear. A clear situation is always good. The easier it is to understand the situation the better the town can act. | ||
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If you are the doctor and are absolutely sure you never gave your role away, claim it loudly. It would mean we have an impostor in the game. | ||
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If Mafia is crafty they knew it too. This little affair is the only reason I even consider that we have an impostor doctor. Of course in case it was just random I can´t tell my read openly as it would benefit the mafia to know what I puzzled together. | ||
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If our real doctor was very silent, he must have missed the impostor. If we have a cop he MUST claim. The reward is instantly getting an innocent report and a mafia. The risk is getting heavily messed with by scum. Claiming means we know the setup 100% sure. I cannot overstate how good this is for us. If you are cop and do not claim, it means I will wrongly try to get prplhz lynched. And that if you claim later nobody will believe you. | ||
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Now we have a doctor and a roleblock. If both are true, cop will claim and we get 3 confirmed innocents: The doc(who will remain anonymous) The cop(who will be known) The report of the cop(since cop was not blocked) The other option is that either the doc lies or that the roleblock is a lie. We get 1 maf in a 1:1 trade, which is good for town. | ||
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I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop. Also as far as voting is concerned: 18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends We know Giygas is mafia. He was the first to vote Skrammen. A short time later, but not immediately afterwards, prplhz follows. Skrammen of course was a perfect safe lynch, chosen by mafia. Also consider this: On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone! On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen. Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one. ##Vote Skrammen His voting on Skrammen was not his own choice, but apparently Purplehaze´s. ##vote prplhz Only thing that could make me think he is town is a very good analysis or a cop claim. Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2. | ||
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However, right now we have a scenario in which we either get - a lot of confirmed innocents, which facilitates scumhunt immensely - 1 scum - 2 scum I know what I´m doing. Prplhz was right when he called me a risktaker. I did this before and I will do it again, if the risk/reward is favorable. | ||
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On May 20 2011 09:56 nard wrote: the voting time is suspicious but not enough for me to cast a vote just yet. also - what??? in the same post you say: this doesnt make sense.. Why, it makes good sense. We got Giygas without any blue role. And if the maf really has a roleblocker, we could be all townies. If a blue role would be so important that you couldn´t win without it, it wouldn´t be a possible setup. | ||
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Up till now I played what I would consider safe. You do not win mafia by playing safe. You win by taking small risks(lynching Giygas) and slightly bigger risks(what I´m doing). I have half a case against prplhz. Before that, he appeared scummy to at least 1 other person. I will extend my case against him and I will push him like I pushed Giygas. And he will flip red. | ||
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My mind is like an arrow and my target is prplhz. I analysed 3 people this game: Viscera Giygas Prplhz In that order. I didn´t waver. I didn´t change my announced FoS anytime between. I claim we do not have a roleblock in the game. That´s the most recent of prplhz lies. If you were mafia, would you roleblock prplhz? People said I claim cop in my first post(which is a misinterpretation, but w/e). Somebody else gave away his doctortude. Why would anyone roleblock prplhz at this point? | ||
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You might remember back on day 1 when I put FoS on you for a couple hours. I dropped, as you also may remember. Because you are quite obvious green. And yes, Doctor didn´t claim but I KNOW WHO HE IS, because I have awesome observational skills. | ||
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The big analysis of Prplhz Prplhz has been preceived as scummy day1. After Giygas flipped red, perceived suspicion against him dropped a whole lot, as we are seemingly back to hunting inactives. If I am right, he knew he was suspicious day 1. He also knew Giygas was even worse off. So he tried to make 2 bads into 1 good and voted Giygas off, so he is cleared off suspicion. 1) Now it has been enough time to relatively safely assume we have no cop in the game. If this is true, it means we have 1 doc and no roleblockers ingame. But prplhz claimed to have been roleblocked. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=19#364 On May 20 2011 08:36 prplhz wrote: Oh shit I need to do some roleblock discussion too. Right, Karshe got killed and I got blocked. We either have Doc+Cop or we have vanilla town. The scum has known this all along. Now Imagine this. Scum tried to block townie. Why on earth would they do that? Only makes sense if they are trying to do some mind games, but would it not be better to block someone other than me? Someone who is townie but who is acting scummy? Now imagine this: Scum tried to block Doc. If I am doc would their blocking me have helped in their assassination of Karshe? Not likely, I do not think I ever even mentioned Karshe before he was killed so why would they think I would try to save him? So scum tried to block Cop? What are your thoughts on this? My thought on this matter is he is Scum and there is no roleblock. He tried to distract us with talk about happy fun stuff like who the scum thinks is Doctor or Cop. That´s my stance on it. 2) Prplhz talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=6#102 On May 17 2011 09:26 prplhz wrote: Sup guys Right now I am mainly suspecting Mataza, mainly because of something that Mataza said early on: Now this statement could very well be benign but it is doing two things: degrading the town to diminish people's confidence in their ability to play this game (overestimate) making them more susceptible to get influenced by someone (himself) and setting himself up as a "leader" of the town (my town). I do not know why Mataza is trying to set himself up as a leader of the town but there are two scenarios: 1. He's a scum: He wants to control people and mislead them to vote for innocent people and keep the mafia save. 2. He's a townie: He wants to control people and lead to to vote for guilty scum and keep the town save. Either way he is trying to be a "leader" of the town and this in itself is bad. A town should never have a leader and should instead have people thinking very independently forming their own opinion, this should happen through discussion and activity of course. Mataza is very savvy and probably knows that having a leader is not good for a town, so why is he trying to set himself up to be one? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Now stuff that might talk against this: First: Mataza is actually not pointing fingers at anybody, I think we should be very careful if he ever decides to "lead" "his town" to vote for someone. Second (as pointed out by Mataza himself): If he is trying to lead this town as a scum would lead it we would quickly find out (we would lynch innocent people). And since we can afford losing people, trading a townie (guy Mataza would want to lynch) for a scum (Mataza) is really a good deal for the town. Maybe he is setting himself and the mafia up for mid/late game? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Other than that I think that all the debate around Mataza is hurting the town (we are not talking about someone else). So to stop this I am going to talk about someone else: VisceraEyes and GiygaS It is very hard for me to argue against VisceraEyes and GiygaS because I am also suspicious of Mataza. This is very hard because, while these two guys have been on Mataza's back the whole time they claim that it has been for the sake of activity. This has worked alright since these three guys are arguably the most contributing players in this game right now so their claimed plans have worked out well. But why are they not directing any of this activity against each other? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. (Bladibla...) While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Note that he also likes us to ask ourself questions, derailing from the important things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=7#129 On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote: (Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces Where did this sudden change come from? 3) Voting affairs. His last 3 posts before his vote:+ Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#148 On May 18 2011 03:11 prplhz wrote: @Skrammen Hi, could you please, in a very short while, provide A LOT more content for us to analyze? I was kinda hoping you would get modkilled.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152 On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote: Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active. People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing ))http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#160 On May 18 2011 07:35 prplhz wrote: Yea I'm gonna go ahead and vote now. ##Vote Skrammen Reason for this is that he just comes in 8 hours before day1 ends, casts and vote with 2 paragraphs of resonable and does not respond to our pleas that he post some more content. I am going to be honest with you and say that maybe he's not the one who is most likely to be scum but I think he's the most harmful for the town right now. If I should have voted for most likely to be scum I would vote for VisceraEyes for reasons I have already stated. Also his latest post is not really convincing me of anything else either. To answer the post VisceraEyes just made, the one that was mainly about me; No I don't control anybody Other than that I can't seem to find anything in your post I should need to comment on because mostly you're just saying that you disagree with what I said.More importantly notice how Giygas votes within 10 minutes of Prplhz.+ Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#157 On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone! On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen. Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one. ##Vote Skrammen First of all, this is out of character for Giygas. He somehow used great parts of prplhz reasoning before prplhz used it. Coincidence? I think not. Prplhz has been whispering into Giygas ear to write exactly that. And at the end, like I said at the beginning, Prplhz changed his vote. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=11#220 On May 18 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: Yea this may be a huge mistake but if I'm gonna make it, it is going to be in the first game. ##Unvote Skrammen ##Vote GiygaS My rationale: The whole "vote for skrammen" thing was never about him being scum, it was about him being inactive and voting out of the blue. I think that we are going to have a lot better read on VisceraEyes, Mataza and Skrammen if we flip GiygaS, while flipping Skrammen will really give us nothing. Inactive players have hopefully learned their lesson. Also I think it is very awesome that everybody voted, but it would be more awesome if everybody posted regularly too! If he does not flip red I think the VisceraEyes is the best bid for a scum next time. I'll probably be unavailable for the next 24 hours by way, and also for the first part of day1 but I will be here to answer questions just not to provide analysis. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=12#235 On May 18 2011 11:26 prplhz wrote: I can't believe this. A little short, no? I thought we wanted to get answers. Why would you be shocked *at all* at giygas flipping red? You don´t know who mafia is, so you kinda suspect everyone. The solution: Prplhz puts up an act. This short answer is saying "I did not expect Giygas to be red" On the other hand, he put the nail in the coffin and cast the final vote on Giygas. A clear contradiction. 4) Little things. Example a: A long post that talks about Viscera and Giygas turning on each other. Did this happen? I can´t remember that this happened at all. He also talked about him being a target for the nightkill, because he "has been rallying people" all day. I did not notice any of his rallying. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152 On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote: Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active. People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing ))+ Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=21 On May 20 2011 11:09 prplhz wrote: Hey I just want to clarify that what GiygaS said after his lynching should NOT be considered by anybody as evidence of anything. The game ends when you die but as the rules state you can make a GG post and that's what GiygaS did. It is very unfortunate that he did not stop his sentence 3 words and a smiley earlier but I am sure that he did not mean anything by it. I'll post more analysis later but I'm always up for questions directed at me. My guess is that Giygas should have said something different. Nobody else cares about this little quip. I see no reason to even read something into that. So why does Prplhz do? If you read Prplhz post history, look especially for him asking questions that derail us away from the question who is mafia. He often goes to "why would mafia do this" and other stuff. He especially talk often about things being harmful to town, but he never spoke about something being good for town. That is a scumtell, known along the line of "bashing bad ideas but never bringing forth any good ideas". Prplhz is scum. I am as convinced as I was with Giygas. My vote stays ##vote Prplhz Help me help you help win the game. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I know my plan sounds insane. But if you work around all the numbers in the game it doesn´t sound that bad. The game is set up in a way so town loses if we have 3 mislynches. We win the game when we lynch right 3 times. On the other hand blue roles are important, but not that important. Good play does not rely on blue roles doing all the work. There is a setup with no blue roles at all. If blue roles were crucial for success, town would have a 25% chance to be boned right from the start. Also you have to keep in mind that if my plan works, we either get 1 scum if I was right from the start, or we get 2 scum, if the mafia make a mistake, or we get 3 confirmed innocents, if I was wrong. Now 3 innocents doesn´t sound as good as getting scum. But mafia can only kill 1 person each night. Mafia would need 3 nights to recover. Also getting 3 innocents was the most unlikely scenario as it would mean my entire read was wrong and I got lucky catching Giygas. In essence I am a gambler, but I am not dumb. | ||
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Mataza
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I am most likely town, and to get a read on my FoS, you instead kill me? | ||
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I should have used colors for the quotes in 3) voting affairs Right now lack of reasoning is underlined in both Giygas and prplhz comments, "an evil unknown" is in italic and dangerous and harmful are both in bold. | ||
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Mataza
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It would be an unfair advantage if Mafia knew exactly which roles are in the game simply because they were gifted a role blocker. | ||
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Mataza
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Someone said I do, but I can´t judge myself. | ||
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Mataza
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That´s a sudden change of behaviour for which you gave no reasoning. | ||
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You talk about things bad a lot, but up til now you never talked about something being good. You are not even trying. And the only reason to not try is because anything good for town is bad for you. Viscera tries, Palmar tries, Karshe tried and even some of the less actives try. You didn´t. | ||
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My playstyle may be different. But what I found in Prplhz posts is real. Right now he is counting on that nobody will ask him about my analysis. Over half the people didn´t vote yet. If too many townies are modkilled we lose instantly | ||
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Mataza
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I don´t mind as long as you win the game after I am dead. | ||
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Mataza
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Talking a lot does not make him townie and it does not make me townie. Something else makes me town. What Prplhz didn´t do is bring anything positive forward as of yet. His single claim to fame is voteswitching to Giygas last second with inconsistent reasoning. If you listen to him, you will probably waste your time talking about why the mafia could have done this and why the mafia could have done that. What you should be asking is who the mafia are. If we have a cop and he didn´t claim, he should check Palmar this night. I think it´s important to have him cleared. I am sorry, I did not look into anyone else besides yet. | ||
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Mataza
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I suggest that instead of voting palmar you lynch me. With my credibilty destroyed because people didn´t understand my gambit, I will be of no use to town anymore. I don´t think anybody would consider what I have to say as long as I still live. If voting doesn´t get prplhz down, I will confirm my town status by voting myself. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I wish you luck going into day 3. @Palmar Your fear got the better of you. You should step up your game dramatically. @Prplhz I hope you die next. With this little interest from town, you might have already won. If our blue role was a vigilante, I could see why he is important. I cannot understand why Doctor did what he did. But the COP is only good if he works with the town before he dies without saying a word. GG | ||
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Mataza
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There are only 2 scum left. If you still go ahead and put suspects up in groups of 3, it won´t lead anywhere.... | ||
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Mataza
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Getting 2 confirmed innocents in one day is good. Getting 3 is great. It would take the mafia 3 nights to eradicate them all. Whatever. | ||
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Mataza
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I´m biting my tongue here. Good luck town. | ||
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Had I lived after Prplhz flipped green, knowing there really is a roleblocker, I would have immediately pushed Palmar. Also he was the one railing on my roleclaim plan like mad. I guess he knew it would have screwed him over. If not, let me live my illusions. People just can´t appreciate a gamewinning gamble. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I should have called out Palmar, since he telegraphed Karshe´s death. It´s depressing when you tell everyone to play like there were no blues, and then I get myself killed because I thought someone is blue. Well played Palmar. Getting me down was your winning move imho. | ||
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Mataza
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The only reason I considered this was because I could keep the doc hidden, if there ever was one. In a game this small, chances are cop dies before lylo and cop who doesn´t give any info is useless. I really feel bad for my subpar play. But I don´t think my plan was bad in itself, just because it involved roleclaims. In my experience a good cop can make or break the game, and claiming early enough is part of this(Btw I am an excellent cop). Time to let it go. | ||
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