EPTAlso, what makes this insane and different from the other PYP games?
Pick Your Power Insane!
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Mr. Wiggles
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Also, what makes this insane and different from the other PYP games? | ||
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On May 04 2011 03:50 Ver wrote: The fact that it uses essentially every role ever used in a mafia game here regardless of how imbalanced. Make sure you look carefully at the role list  Ok, that's what I figured for the most part. Awesome, can't wait for it to start. :p | ||
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On May 10 2011 09:27 OriginalName wrote: What do you have to worry about im the one whos going to get stomped T_T. Although, I have plans... Lol, is that a compliment?  And don't worry, you'll do fine, haha | ||
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On May 11 2011 03:50 sinani206 wrote: Wait if there are more spots and it won't start until after XXXIX, then /in (from replacement) I think it's starting on Friday. | ||
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On May 13 2011 06:54 Barundar wrote: Don't shoot the mafia bum, join us! It's good to be bad ^Caller GF | ||
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Game starts Friday night. Wanting to make sure that he hasn't changed the start time. -__- | ||
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On May 14 2011 10:06 kitaman27 wrote: Here is the plan: I'm going to publicly assign all roles 1-25. You will then pick the appropriate role according to your assignment. Anyone who fails to follow my plan is scum. This is completely pro-town, I swear. He's not assigning 1-25 though, more like 1-9, all roles which are arguably anti-town. There are still problems with this though. There's no way to tell if those people actually choose the roles or not, until the abilities are used. Also, this leaves other power roles open for mafia, because beyond a few of the roles, most of them are useless to town, and picking them only serves to deny them to mafia. So while they're all useful for mafia, they're useless to town, so it depends on if their denial outweighs the selection of other, more useful, roles. | ||
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Chuiu Jack Caller Veteran Mafia 4 Veteran Medic Doctor Bullet Proof Bodyguard Bus Driver- Arguably, this can be used as a strong protective role for town. If the identity/role of a strong town player becomes known, the bus driver can bus them away from danger. As well, if for whatever reason the identity of the bulletproof player becomes known, the bus driver can bus them around with pro-town players and effectively become a medic. Also, if we are going to go ahead with any kind of plan which sets certain roles to certain queue positions, they must be solidified before the queue is known. So, if you say: "These five roles go to the first five", you better be giving them a specific order before we have the player-order. This will stop mafia from trying to salvage the roles in any way by asking for certain roles for certain queue positions. I'm not entirely sure at the moment whether assigning roles is good or not, but if you are proposing role-assignments like that, anyone trying to arrange the order after the queue is known will look very suspicious to me, at least. | ||
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The thing I'm worried about, is finding a way to prevent role-overlap. It's better for us if mafia overlap, but it's easier for town to overlap. Right now, I'm drawing a blank on ways to prevent town overlap besides complete role-assignment, which I don't think is a good idea. So, if anyone else has ideas for minimizing town overlap, it would be nice if you shared. | ||
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If your role was taken, just use that to try to determine for yourself, who has what role. This will help if at some point that person is forced to role-claim. Say, you tried to take vigilante, and the role was taken already. Then you know the person who is the vigilante is above you in the list. If someone below you tries to claim it, they are lying, or are the thief, which is still anti-town. If someone above you claims the role, it becomes much more likely the fewer people there are above you in the list. So, just keep this information to yourself, and to make better sense of claims when they come. (Though I think fake-claims will be rare, or hard to pull off, given the large number of roles and impossibility of duplicates) | ||
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On May 16 2011 15:28 Ace wrote: Well we do play it like a "normal" game until the first role claim comes out Once that comes out and depending on the position the player was in we debate whether it's a falseclaim or not, or even if the person is worth lynching. With so many information roles I'm sure things are going to be kicking off very soon. Day 2 will be interesting then. I'm going to say, that we shouldn't drop everything that was discussed before the day started, and that in fact, some people are already making use of it. Incognito expressed a suspicion in Node and then retracted it immediately. Caller later stated that he believes Node is mafia. From what's happened pre-game until role PMs, Incog now suspects GM enough to call for a hit on him. So, whether these suspicions are able to be substantiated or not aside, we still have information, if solely in the fact that these people were brought up as suspicious, and that Incog and Caller were so quick to start pointing out who they believe are scum. So, I'm going to say we shouldn't ignore what happened before Role Pms went out, because there is definitely information there. I'm also interested in hearing from Node again, because he was mentioned twice, and has since disappeared, only making two, very small posts. | ||
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On May 15 2011 17:40 Barundar wrote: updated list: 1. Flamewheel 2. Scamp [7][11] 3. Caller [10][4] 4. Barundar [13][1] 5. Radfield 6. GMarshal [17][2] 7. Deconduo 8. Foolishness [1][x] 9. bumatlarge [1][18] 10. Kavdragon [2][1] 11. Chaoser [2][2] 12. Fishball [5][3] 13. KillerSOS [5][11] 14. Eiii [6][7] 15. Infinitestory [6][10] 16. Dreamflower [4][1] 17. Mr.Wiggles [4][2] 18. Original Name[4][6] 19. tnkted [4][12] 20. Chezinu 21. Ace [9][11] 22. Kurumi [9][x] 23. Incognito[9][x] 24. Node [9][1] 25. kitaman27 [9][1] Don't know why I wasn't updated. | ||
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On May 17 2011 02:54 Ace wrote: I think right now it's best to just get a few main suspects, and then attempt to split all of our votes between them. Scummiest gets the lynch, vote checking DT gets a few lists. This sounds like a somewhat better alternative to me. There's a couple problems I see with the vote-rigger plan right now (some of which can be addressed): 1. The vote rigger basically decides the lynch it looks like, so we must have a good idea for who we're lynching before the vote-rigger should use his power. This can be remedied by actually talking about the lynch and coming to a consensus then having the vote-rigger act at least past the halfway point of the day. 2. The vote rigger's power may only be used once. So, we must determine when it is best to use it. Either right away, or after a day or two, when player numbers have been reduced and we have a better idea of who we think are suspicious. I'm personally in favour of waiting until Day 2 at least. 3. We don't know who's suspicious, and who isn't right now, or at least, we don't have a great idea at the moment. So, trying to put a lot of suspicious players into the same voting bloc isn't going to work nearly as well when all those suspicions are based off day 1 reads, which have a history of not being incredibly accurate. The M2DT has three vote-checks, but the vote rigger can only act once. So, if we manage to not have too many people being the only person voting for someone, and have decent amounts of people in different voting blocs, the M2DT can still use his power at most twice before the vote rigger needs to act. Then, whenever the vote-rigger wishes to act, and comes forward, the M2DT can lay out his results so far so we can cross-check them, and come up with an ideal vote-check list for the Vote rigger to create. (This is assuming medics so that the M2DT survives the night) | ||
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On May 17 2011 04:36 Foolishness wrote: Are we really going to try to base a plan around rigging the votes and getting a votecheck? What happened to "let's treat this as a normal game until someone claims"? I would hope not. I say play this out normally, but pay attention to people who are randomly throwing single votes out and refuse to vote with any group. If that continues past one day, I'd say it's someone trying to avoid vote check. | ||
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On May 17 2011 06:25 Kavdragon wrote: Upon further review, there is nothing of much significance with Mr.Wiggles. He doesn't make scum slips, he doesn't contradict himself as far as I see, but all of his contributions and posting are very "safe". He doesn't come out with any opinions that are unique, and seems to sheep behind a lot of people in an attempt to blend in. The one thing that sticks out about Mr Wiggles is that he doesn't want to stick out. It seems like he's doing his best to get by with minimal contribution, and that fits my pattern for scum. I don't mind sticking out, and I'm rather used to it, if 4 day 1 accusations of being scum in a row are anything to go by. :p I play pretty conservatively in the early game, and try to add where I can. If I independently come up with similar conclusions to others, then whatever, I'm still thinking. I've never read someone's post, thought "good idea", and then reworded it into my own. So yes, my opinions are uniquely me, if you don't see it, that's your loss. Now, here's an opinion for you: Trying to figure out mafia numbers with no information is useless. It is complete conjecture, and the very fact you're trying to use it to find people to analyze seems weird to me. There's as much validity in saying, mafia chose 1,2,3,4,5,6, as there is in saying mafia chose 9,9,9,9,9,9. It's useless at the moment, and only gains some kind of validity after at least two mafia are killed, because you'll get an inkling of an idea what their number strategy is. That said, it's still and inkling, and not very much to go on, so using that as a basis for analysis is weak. I'd rather see something behavioural or strategical before anything based off numbers already. On May 17 2011 05:49 Ace wrote: Actually Scum would want to vote with a group. If they don't they risk the possible chance of a group of confirmed townies by the DT. It's better for them and for the Town that people vote together. People voting alone are probably better off left to be checked by another investigation role. That's exactly what I'm saying though. :p There will be mafia voting in a group, as there are enough mafia to vote in each bloc, but anyone voting alone for a player is very unlikely to get checked by the vote-checker. So, that makes them a better target for DTs. I wasn't trying to propose we vote-check them, that would be a waste of the power, but consistent solo voting means you will never be vote checked. Also, a group of vote-checked townies won't be 100% green. There's still the possibility for framers and GFs to be in the group. | ||
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On the lynch: We shouldn't be afraid to lynch into the top of the list if we think there's a good chance of the target being scum. If we kill scum, all that does is give mafia back their role if they have the copycat. I'd much rather just try to lynch whoever's scummiest than try to lynch someone because they look kind've scummy and if they're green don't have a good role. If mafia have copycat, and you lynch wrong, they get a town role. If you lynch right, they get their own role back, which is better than them getting an additional role. On Targets: Of course we need to lower the number. What that doesn't mean, for me anyways, is that if something new is brought forward, we should just ignore it. By this, I don't mean more of the FOS spam, but actually well thought out and put together cases. So, we should look through all the potential lynch targets, and find maybe three that look the scummiest, or we can generate the best discussion on. Then, new cases can be evaluated as they are brought forward, and random vote spam can be discouraged, as it isn't even *good* pressure anyways. Of the top three picks right now, I'm going to be voting for Deconduo at the moment. He's been useless, spammy, and lurky. Incognito has been throwing around a lot of FOS, but I don't think that makes him scum, and Chaoser has been fairly inactive, with very generic posts, but gave an IRL reason for it, so I'd rather see what he has to say on Day 2 when he talks more and it's easier to get a read. | ||
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Barundar doesn't want to lynch into the top of the list, I don't give a damn where you are in the list, if you look red. The copy cat is irrelevant if we actually can find someone red. I'm not going to avoid considering people just because of where their queue position is. Also, lynching vanilla just makes it so the copycat gets the first person shot at night. So threaten medic-protection on the top of the list, and mafia will have to shoot into lower parts where the roles aren't as useful to them. I want to get rid of all the throwaway targets so we can look at the ones with any kind of reasoning behind them. I don't care if people bring in new targets so long as there's reasoning behind it. Just voting for random people at this point is stupid however, as it's unrealistic you'll get someone lynched with just a spam vote and no analysis. I'm not opposed to new people being brought up, if there's something substantial behind it. Barundar just wants to focus on who we have and not add anyone for any reason. So how's that the same, again? | ||
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On May 18 2011 07:28 kitaman27 wrote: Could you elaborate what makes you think he is obvious green? VI perhaps, but what makes you think he green? He wants us to lynch him because "he thinks he is the mole". He feels as a vanilla, it would be most useful if he were lynched. He has provided no attempt to help town. Are you guys inferring deconduo is the type of person that would rage quit the game because he didn't get the role he wanted? Well, that's what I'm wondering about at the moment. From near the beginning of the game: On May 14 2011 21:56 deconduo wrote: My viewpoint is that the game starts after the roles have been picked. Any optimum picking strategy or awesome pick setup (like LSB's) just goes against my style of playing. I will be playing pro-town once the picks have gone through. Regardless, to avoid confrontation I've chosen numbers in a way that I will hopefully be in the middle/end of the draft rather than the start. This sugests that he was never initially aiming at any "power roles", unless what he wrote here is a lie. He also makes a promise to act "pro-town", once the roles go out, but never delivers, opting for spam, one-liners, and confusing messages instead. So, he makes a post inferring that power-roles aren't important to him, so he'll aim for the middle/end of the queue, then he gets an early queue position, and supposedly picks a role, doesn't get it, and now rage-quits? That just seems off to me, when he was saying he wants to be in a position where he wouldn't get a very strong role (or any role at all, potentially). So, he's just thrown us into a bunch of WIFOM, that isn't helping anything. I might be forced to consider that he's the VI, but at this point, that's detrimental to town as well, because it gives him an excuse to post whatever he wants and to be ignored, and to lurk, under the guise of being VI. If we ever want to lynch him, it becomes a big pit of WIFOM, as he and others form a defense over his actions Day 1. Maybe the best thing would be to have someone just shoot him tonight? | ||
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Looks pretty green to me so far, makes good points, constructive posts. The random votes and asking for nukes look weird though, lacks reasoning for early suspicions. On reflection, I think there's a possibility Deconduo might be Hero. I'll switch my vote for now. | ||
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Thanks | ||
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Role-Checks: These are the people who, at the moment, it would be a good idea to check their role. If scum got any of the first queue spots, they're likely to have taken a strong scum role from the no-pick list. Flamewheel Scamp Caller Barundar Radfield GMarshal Alignment Checks: These are the people I find somewhat suspicious, or who it would be nice to have an alignment check on. Barundar Node Tnkted Incognito Radfield Ace Vig-Hit: Deconduo I'm thinking he's VI, maybe mafia Hero, either way he isn't helping town, and I don't want to waste a lynch on him later. Debatable. Medic list: These are the people I think ought to be protected. Either they're acting pro-town already, or have good potential to help town day 2. Caller bumatlarge Radfield Incognito Flamewheel Foolishness This is just a summary of my thoughts at the moment. Disagree? Want to add? Just cause it's night doesn't mean we need to shut up. | ||
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On May 18 2011 19:19 Radfield wrote: So much for 100% eh Incog.... On the bright side, this lynch hopefully gives us oodles of information down the line, once incog and Barundars alignment flips. On another bright note, Incognito won't get targeted by mafia tonight, so in the event he is town he'll probably survive the night. Unless of course a townie shoots him, but if that's the case so be it. Mr. Wiggles, I very much disagree with your rolecheck list. There is a list of roles in this game that no townie should be caught dead with, so we want to use our rolechecks to try and ascertain alignment. Checking the people at the top of the list gives us very little information regarding their alignment. The top 6/7 all have an excellent excuse(whether legit or not) for taking an anti-town role. No one else on the list has that excuse. Anyone with a role check should be looking at whomever they think is scummy lower down on the list. If they have a scummy role(a role on the no-pick list) then they're probably mafia. Why is this such a contradiction? I thought the whole point of the "no pick list" is that townies wouldn't pick them, for any reason, to avoid this exact WIFOM. Now you're trying to say that people at the top have an excuse to take anti-town roles? What excuse? That they wanted to deny mafia the role? Then what about people lower down the list? Maybe they just wanted to check if the role had already been taken? That was the point of not picking the roles is to avoid this WIFOM, and to be able to straight up kill people found with those roles. It's funny, because Barundar wanted to avoid lynching into the top of the list earlier as well. So, I'm going to say it again, people near the top of the list are worth a role-check, and possibly an alignment check. Use your discretion. We can deal with bullshit excuses as they come up, because anyone can come up with a fake reason for taking a role, and even if we decide not to kill them, we can still keep tabs on them. | ||
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That'll find mafia for sure, and kill them too. Also, "Vote-checking Kit" is still ambiguous. For all we know, it will check vote-lists and tell mafia how many people with roles voted to help them snipe. I say we put in a policy where the person who received the inventor item must claim that they did so, so we can keep them accountable. That way, if they feed us false information, we can do something about it. | ||
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On May 19 2011 09:03 Scamp wrote: What's that Mr. Wiggles? Was my 'mafia-seeking missile' not a good enough idea? How's that work? Also, this would clear townies too, because if they hold it and it doesn't blow up, then they're not mafia (or at least narrowed down to GF or cover). It's balanced because a framed townie will explode, if a player holds it too long they'll explode, and if a player dies holding it, the bomb is lost. Also, EXPLOSIONS. | ||
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For vote-checker, just name it mafia-vote checker, then it becomes unambiguous. Just "vote checker" only tells us that it checks votes, not what. I'd write it so the bomb remains in play until it explodes, or is lost. It can be passed freely with no limit on passes. It's one-use, because its use is to explode mafia. | ||
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On May 19 2011 09:31 Scamp wrote: No, that's not unambiguous. A mafia-vote checker could be a vote-rigging device that's used by the mafia. How can it be a vote-rigger? Also, I think arguing about names is useless at this point. There's nothing in the Inventor role-description that says the invention name must be in line with its function. There's also nothing stopping the inventor from using acronyms to name his inventions so they'll show up as random names. | ||
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On May 19 2011 09:50 Pandain wrote:  + Show Spoiler + I friended someone named Mr. Wiggles on B.net but am too afraid to ask if it's the real him. My B.net name is Jester.481 or the code's something like that. On May 19 2011 09:52 chaoser wrote: It's pronounced chow-ser. Like Bowser but not. Or you can be like fucking RoL and call me chaos-er. Putting that aside, why don't we make an x-ray machine or something that can be used in conjunction with a vote-check/alignment check that gets rid of covers and such. I pronounce it like RoL  I'm just going to trust in the inventor at this point, as it doesn't look like the names need to follow the use, and because almost every name is ambiguous. For example, X-ray machine could be an item that kills with radiation. Coming up with anti-town uses for names is endless. I'm still going to say, depending on item use, that claiming you got the item and what it does is going to generally be the best thing for us. | ||
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Night 1 is over at least, and we can start discussing more again. Foolishness, you gonna continue talking? :p Green or not, I enjoy when people talk more, gives us more to work with. | ||
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Are you going to share it? | ||
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On May 19 2011 14:00 infinitestory wrote: What is this supposed to mean? If you were king yesterday, you would have been forced to publicly lynch someone, and that clearly didn't happen. What? I wan't king yesterday, I'm king today. | ||
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On May 19 2011 14:00 Node wrote: Ain't that something. We still get the standard lynch in addition to yours, right? Yes, I just have to type to kill someone in the thread. | ||
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On May 19 2011 14:18 Ace wrote: That's my only issue with him announcing he got King'd. Scum Politician is pretty dangerous. Or I could be lying to see if my vote changes later in the day and tells us there's a scum politician present. Or I could be telling the truth and I'm worried about kingmaker/politician mafia combo. For now we'll see how people act when offered the potential for a double lynch. | ||
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I'm also going to fully comply with the town on who to lynch. So if any surprises happen, it's scum involvement. There was also always the threat of kingmaker/politician, and kingmaker/journalist combo, and this way town knows what's going on. This was the most transparent way to go about this, by claiming at the start of the day, and not waiting. This way we have the most time to discuss and decide what we want to do with it. | ||
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As it stands, it seems the town is mostly asking for either the kill of Incognito or KillerSOS and other lurkers. First though, I want to address this: On May 20 2011 21:13 tnkted wrote: Ok. What the fuck is wrong with this town. Wiggles, do not lynch incognito. It is clear that he isn't mafia. He's been contributing solid plans all game, with very precise, assertive language. He has posted scumlists. He has written HUGE posts, several times, and all of them were informative and helpful and steered town in... well, in directions if not in the best direction. A guided town is better than a chaotic town. Wiggles, you should hit Caller or Flamewheel instead. Of the people on the list, Caller seems like most mafia to me. But it should be obvious from his posting style, and if not that, the fact that he posted his thoughts on half the players in the game as a goodbye note should sway you. Scum wouldn't bother; look at how chez is reacting to his imminent death. Incog's actions today have me keeping a closer eye on him than before. Posting his thoughts on players doesn't make him town, especially when it only goes into depth on why some players are town, but not on his mafia suspects. That seems fishy to me, to spend so much time writing why people are green, but not spending any time writing why people are red, which is arguably more important. Saying scum wouldn't bother is WIFOM. Firstly, we don't know if Chez is red or not yet, and he's been acting this way the whole game. I don't think he would stop trolling and screwing around just because he was shot at. Secondly, there hasn't been real danger to Incognito yet. So, by making that post, it serves to make him look like a martyr, and gain town sympathies, without giving us too much information. However, this can't be construed to say too much about his alignment, just that he'd rather be alive than dead, while being very safe about it. Incog's nuke also doesn't do too much to his credit. Let me say this: Killing Chezinu, like KillerSOS or other lurkers, is easy. It was an easy kill, because town was expressing suspicion of him and a desire to kill him with my king lynch. As well, he hasn't contributed much if anything to town so far, and was mostly dead weight. So, killing him doesn't take much thought to do. All in all, Incog's posts today seem a lot like someone who is trying to look green. Right now, I'm not sure what that says about his alignment though, but I'm leaning more towards town at the moment from his behaviour on Day 1. That said, I don't think I'll kill Incog right now. I'd rather leave him alive, and at the mercy of the lynch. So, I'll probably be killing KillerSOS, but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on Chaoser/ON within the next hour or so, I'll take that into consideration. Now, as for GM's list. Personally, I think that one of the players on it were framed. Just looking through the players on it, it doesn't look like any of them besides Chezinu were obvious scum. FW, Caller, and GM are all near the top of the queue list, and there was a desire to check people near the top of the list. As well, Incog and Node both had suspicions cast on them on Day 1. This made all 6 of the players likely candidates for alignment checks, and further frames. At least, that's how I'm viewing it at the moment. | ||
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So, if we want to act before the politician, we should act quickly. If I had to choose one of the players from the Kav list, and assuming the validity of it, it would be one of Node or Incog. Neither looks particularly scummy, it's just that I have stronger town reads on the other players present. | ||
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On May 21 2011 08:11 kitaman27 wrote: Wiggles, will you be around to use your kill at least three hours before the lynch? That should give us enough time to switch based on the results. I would suggest lynching into the kav group. I'll be around. So, right now there's 3 kinds of opinions about what to do with the kill. 1. Shoot Incognito, see what he flips, act accordingly 2. Shoot Node, see what he flips, act accordingly 3. Shoot KillerSOS, complete lynch as normal | ||
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On May 21 2011 10:13 Incognito wrote: Mr. analysis and scumhunting is content to go with "the odds" and chill on the sidelines. This is too funny. Actually, I think you should vig me right now so that you get more information that comes out of the scramble of all the invalid ##Vote Incognito votes. Its pretty clear that you will get no information from my lynch. Its easy for mafia to jump on either side of the wagon. If you vig me, people will actually be forced to give reasons on why they are voting for the other suspects. And Ironically you want to kill KillerSOS, who you say is a easy. Why go for the easy kill? Do the right thing and kill me instead and force people to give reasons for their votes on the other suspects. Vigging you and having you flip green doesn't solve anything. All at does is make your voters hop over to Node, or KillerSOS, without the need to provide any substantial reasoning. If I were to shoot into you/Node, it would be because one of you are likely to be red. If I don't shoot into you, I'd effectively be doing house cleaning, getting rid of non-contributing, scummy looking, lurkers like KillerSOS or ON. | ||
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On May 21 2011 10:23 kitaman27 wrote: *Pokes Wiggles Shot within the hour? If Ver isn't around then we might have to wait longer than expected. Sure, I'm just trying to figure out who to shoot. :p | ||
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On May 21 2011 11:55 Radfield wrote: Care to walk us through your thought process Wiggles? I was thinking, GM/Caller/FW were town. From GM's list, I was thinking there was a frame anyways. I personally believe Incog is town, so if there was no frame, then Node would be the scum there. Node claimed inventor, and said this: " If you look towards the beginning of the day, I drop a couple of hints that I have the role." I found this post: On May 19 2011 13:45 Node wrote: Seeing what happened to Scamp, I wouldn't blame them if they're town and don't claim. So, I figured I'd let him live for now. Worst comes to worst, we do an alignment check/role-check and hold him accountable for all inventions. Now, for ON. His entire play this game, has mostly involved only posting one-liners, and not much else besides calling for killing players with no reasoning. Contrast this to some of his posts from XXXVIII, where he was green: + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 07:53 OriginalName wrote: MiG Analysis Postcount 8/863 Total (1 pregame post) Experience Level: Newbie Nothing inherently wrong here: excited states he wants a protown mayor. Still looking protown here, doesnt add anything that his first post doesn't. This first point should be stressed more, who cares if we elect an assassin sure that one is pro town BUT ALL THE REST OF THEM NEED TO KILL POSSIBLY TOWNIE BODYGUARDS TO GET HIM! And there will be crapshoots by the assassins which may hit either alignment but since townies outnumber scum by so much (as is balanced) the chances of them reducing our town count before we lose signifcantly more than we gain by the assassins is a great reason why Protact should not have BGs. Im still not seeing the scuminess here. Adds on how medic protection on Prot would also be another reason to spray and pray and cause more blue sniping for assassins, this leaves reds to kill outspoken townies as well as assassins may handle their blue snipes for them. A wild DrH approaches! MiG ran! Can't Escape! He states his reason for regurgitating information is that he is slow. Im still of the mind that even if he is restating opinions of others at least hes posting SOMETHING. He's sheeping really hard along with town ---> Do note that this is not always a scumtell and while it can be used to base an arguement off of it really doesn't mean anything without other tells along with it. HOWEVER he is also playing the n00b card alot and while it is true I want to see more of this analysis out of him before i truely call him all out scum. His last post is correcting a misspelling of his name. So: Mig is: Sheeping Doesnt want an assassin in a position of power. Wants a Town mayor (Don't we all?) Stressing he is new. I think hes more of a Newbie Sheeping Town than Scum On April 11 2011 08:07 OriginalName wrote: My reason for voting GM is that I want to keep DrH out of office for this exact reason. Its not that hes a bad player or anything it's because hes fucking aggresive! The last thing we need is somebody who is mayor to make a last minute rash decision and lynches town. Especially when our original suspect turns out to be scum. On April 11 2011 09:20 OriginalName wrote: Thanks for being sane Coag ^_^ Also redFF the reason im restating something is because SOME PEOPLE *cough* are not getting the picture Protact and scumhunt his ass off and I wouldnt get an honest shit about most of his opinions, and neither should you. Im merely picking THE ONE CANDIDATE that is actually feasable in my mind. Kav just has too much heat on him to deserve 2 bodyguards at this point. DrH i have my worries towards but in my mind hes still a better choice for a pardoner then an Assassin, do note ASSASSINS ARE NOT TOWN I dont care if he decides that he cant backstab us HES NOT TOWN, he could be fakeclaiming red to try to get into an advantagous position what does that mean HES STILL NOT TOWN! a TOWNIE MAYOR is better than a NON-TOWNIE MAYOR Pleas go back and note the difference between TOWN and NON-TOWN (ie SCUM). Those were all taken from Day 1 as well. Strong opinions, analysis, general usefulness. Now contrast this with Insane 2, where he was 3rd party with me. There, he did a lot of one-line posting with some slightly bigger posts interspersed as well, while generally lurking and trying to hide from the public eye. He's following the same pattern of lurking and spam in this game that he was there. This led me to believe that he was likely Red. | ||
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On May 21 2011 10:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Vigging you and having you flip green doesn't solve anything. All at does is make your voters hop over to Node, or KillerSOS, without the need to provide any substantial reasoning. If I were to shoot into you/Node, it would be because one of you are likely to be red. If I don't shoot into you, I'd effectively be doing house cleaning, getting rid of non-contributing, scummy looking, lurkers like KillerSOS or ON. I mentioned it, others did too. That's also why I said, when talking about KillerSOS, "other lurkers". | ||
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On May 21 2011 13:28 chaoser wrote: So that means America got bought out by a politician. Figured as much. Incognito is Mafia America, they have a politician on their team that can redirect it so he had no worries. Incog and Chenizu for mafia? Politician As a person used to getting your way by any means necessary you may PM me during the day to buy a player's vote. You will have the ability to control where that player's vote is placed. They will of course lose control of their vote. Their vote will show up as voting where ever you want it to be via PM to me. If you happen to buy America's vote, you can also use their nuke power if they have not already used it for that day and it will appear as them doing it. Also, if you buy the King's vote, you will have his lynch as well. If you happen to buy the king or America you will be informed if you can use their power. America Congratulations, you have bribed your way to becoming President of America! You have unlimited nukes at your disposal, however, they can only be used during the day phase and you can only use one nuke per day. Also, because congress is a bunch of fat cat geezers, if the politician buys your vote and you have not already used your nuke for that cycle, he can also nuke a target of his choice and he makes it look like you did it! (however he cannot make you shoot yourself) To nuke, you must type ##nuke player. You must nuke 12 hours or more before day ends. Nukes land at the end of the day. It would show up in thread. | ||
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Hey, look at me! | ||
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Random + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MEeCL.jpg) I'm very interested in seeing the results of the police radio, do we have any ETA on that? As for the lynch, I'm sticking by what I said earlier that someone on the Kav lynch was likely to be framed. (Probably incog). That said, I don't think we should lynch Caller just to "clear the list". I'm sure there are much better targets for today, than Caller. Also, Ace, Radfield being alive still isn't suspicious unless mafia have a role-blocker. After 2 nights, no one has claimed to be RB'ed, so I'm doubting they have one. This means mafia have no way to kill him besides through lynching. So, if Radfield is town, mafia will push to lynch him. | ||
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@Wiggles: It is suspicious when taken in the right context. The other top picks have died so far, and neither Caller nor Radfield have been touched right? Then explain to me why. Also I didn't check anyone last night as I shot Incognito. Like I said, no Role-Blocker. Scum can't kill Radfield with KP unless they have a role-blocker, or a role which goes through bullet-proof, most of which involve various forms of dying or suicide. After Night 1 there were no claims of anyone being role-blocked. So, unless scum were just trying to hide it in case a bullet proof townie showed up, they most likely don't have one. That said, there haven't been any suicide bombers or zombies, or anything like that yet, meaning that scum haven't had any other opportunities to kill Radfield that we know of. Beyond that, the argument is complete WIFOM. As for Caller, as has been stated, he was purposefully left alive where two others on the Kav list where shot dead. So now, if the list is correct, there's GM and Caller, one of whom is scum. GM doesn't seem to be scum at the moment, as it makes no sense to make a list and then clear it so that you'll sacrifice yourself, whereas you could have "checked" the other list and strung town along for much longer. So, that leaves Caller. I've already made known my belief that someone on the Kav vote-list was likely to have been framed, so that's part of my reasoning for it. The rest becomes WIFOM however, much like your argument against caller, so it is mostly useless to delve into it. I think we should wait for the police radio transmission as well, as someone may have checked Caller, or others, and we can compare that to the vote lists that GM has provided. There is a decent chance that the list will bea ble to help us narrow down our suspects, at the very least. Ver, when do you plan on releasing the Police Radio report? | ||
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On May 23 2011 04:21 Ace wrote: ... If the Scum don't have a Roleblocker and didn't know Radfield was BP then why wasn't he hit? Get it now? Either they already knew he was BP or he's Scum with an alibi for not getting hit while all the other top picks except Caller did get hit. Uhhhh.... Scamp and FW, the top two on the list were shot night 1. On night 2, in major part thanks to you, it was publicly known that Radfield was BP. So, why would they shoot a BP townie on Night 2 and waste half their KP just to check he's BP? They shot the very top of the list night 1 (So not Radfield), after that they knew he was BP. So where's the inconsistency? | ||
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On May 18 2011 15:52 Ver wrote: Day 1 final vote Tally INCOGNITO (5): Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, Barundar On May 21 2011 13:09 Ver wrote: killersos: 10 flamewheel meapak kurumi deconduo radfield eiii incognito mr. wiggles tnkted kitaman KillerSOS is to be lynched So, between these two lists, we have 3 unique scum, as there's literally no cross-over. | ||
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On May 23 2011 04:36 Ace wrote: And Node was killed Night 2 along with Barundar Flamewheel got a nuke bussed on to him What don't you understand here? There was a concentrated effort to eliminate the top of the list. Radfield wasn't shot NIGHT 1, before he was revealed to be Bullet proof. Are you misreading on purpose here? I'm not sure what you're arguing here, could you clarify? Draft Order Results: 1. Flamewheel <--- Shot Night 1 2. Scamp <--- Shot Night 1 3. Caller 4. Barundar 5. Radfield They shot the two top slots on night 1, which makes sense. Can you explain why mafia would randomly shoot at Radfield when there was a claimed Chuiu Jack, and likely inventor in the two top slots? After Night 1, Radfield was known to be bullet-proof. | ||
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On May 23 2011 04:41 infinitestory wrote: OR watcher doesn't count as a detective for the purposes of the radio. Do Watcher and (doesn't really matter) Tracker count as Detective roles for the purposes of Police Radio? Besides this, Bum already said he lied about being Watcher. And also I will have to confess, I am not really the watcher the radio will show that, but I can explain if you want me to. Otherwise, I'd rather keep my real role a secret. | ||
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You appear to DTs as any role of your choice just like a normal godfather (you cannot change the role that you appear as after you PM to me). You are effectively immune to any kind of rolechecks and general detective actions, including the modern detective type of rolecheck. You are also immune to votechecks. However, a mafia caller godfather will show up as red to alignment-only checks. In addition, after Day 3, you may pm me the name of one person, and if they are not being protected by a medic, martyr, or thrown in jail they are inducted into mafia! (only 1 recruitment attempt possible). The new mafia member is inducted at the start of day 4 if the conversion is successful. If a townie picks this role, the conversion acts as an expensive alignment check that follows normal DT rules. Barundar couldn't have been the alignment check. It says the conversion, which works as an alignment check, is a night 3 ability. Meaning, we have an alignment DT. | ||
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What to do with GM's vote-list check Who is are good candidates for role-checks Who are good candidates for alignment checks If anyone needs to be shot I'll start: For Gm's vote list check, I'm going to look back and see if there are any lists that can be cross-referenced to currently existing ones to help narrow down candidates. Barring that, I think GM's list might be useful to use on the tnkted vote today, to verify two things. One, the presence of any GF, and two, the presence of any framers. We have a nice advantage, in that we know the scum numbers this game, and after day 3, moles will officially count as mafia, so the only other factor we need to worry about is the traitor. When we check the list, it should give us total visible scum numbers. If the number falls short of 4, then there is a GF, if it is larger than 4, then there is a traitor and/or framer. If the number is four, that doesn't tell us much though, as there are multiple possibilities for this, such as GF+framer, GF+traitor, or no traitor/GF/framer. Again, this is only barring that there isn't a list we can use to cross-check with the currently existing ones, and if we want to take a risk of no info. GM could also check one of the one person votes, and it would effectively become a DT check too. Candidates for role-checks for me descending in order of importance are: Foolishness Chaoser Eiii Candidates for alignment checks for me with emphasis on the top 3 are: Ace Radfield Caller Kitaman27 I'm not sure if we have any shots left, but if there are: Eiii Kitaman27 Chaoser Are all lurkers that can be shot. (With vig discretion) There's some of my thoughts quickly, feel free to add or make changes, we need to get talking again. Also, if there's anything particular, or some piece of analysis you want to discuss, now would be a good time to bring it up, when it won't be lost amidst the thread and we can go through stuff carefully. | ||
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Nigh 1: Why not protect Inventor? Night 2: Why not protect Inventor? | ||
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Admiral Akbar Can suicide and kill someone and all medics protecting them and everyone who has made an action on them that cycle. You may use your ability day or night! I don't think it will kill the parity cop though, just the kingmaker. Cycle resets in the morning right? | ||
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Mafia XII Godfather You are the Godfather of the Mafia. You lead the Mafia by example and have a number of abilities which assist your minions in bringing Liquiville to it's knees. You have the ability to cover a player, changing their role and alignment to anything you want. You can choose to appear as a role of your choice (including vanilla townie) to any and all types of detective-esque actions. You are immune to votechecks. Just realized role-cops aren't fool-proof. | ||
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Look At This | ||
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Well, GG, Comrades! You may have lost Comrade Wiggles, but do not fear for glorious victory awaits us with swift return to Motherland! May have you strength of great Russian bear in your fight against dirty American capitalists! | ||
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On May 22 2011 11:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote: One. Two. Three. Hey, look at me! On May 25 2011 10:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote: If you're going to kill me, tell me, I don't trust you all to decipher my clues :p Look At This On May 25 2011 05:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Look where we are. At our present state. This is where we're heading. On May 19 2011 13:15 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Or they have copycat and have inventor now Night 1 is over at least, and we can start discussing more again. Foolishness, you gonna continue talking? :p Green or not, I enjoy when people talk more, gives us more to work with. On May 23 2011 03:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Night 2's over, sorry I was gone yesterday, I went fishing. :p Tnkted is the busdriver, or who else did you check last night, Ace? Reds better watch out, unless it's a town player, then don't claim it. Should've just claimed, but I like clues and wanted to have fun. :p | ||
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Will this become a trend? | ||
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On May 29 2011 16:47 Fishball wrote: I'm sure that most people that are accusing you being scum have legitimate reasons... Well, they most probably do, I just find it a bit funny that there's a special prevalence on day 1 for it. :p Pick Your Power Insane: Town + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 06:25 Kavdragon wrote: Upon further review, there is nothing of much significance with Mr.Wiggles. He doesn't make scum slips, he doesn't contradict himself as far as I see, but all of his contributions and posting are very "safe". He doesn't come out with any opinions that are unique, and seems to sheep behind a lot of people in an attempt to blend in. The one thing that sticks out about Mr Wiggles is that he doesn't want to stick out. It seems like he's doing his best to get by with minimal contribution, and that fits my pattern for scum. Sleeper Cell Mafia: Town + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote: Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him, I would much, much rather hit someone who isn't posting or is lurking, trying to avoid attention. I propose Eiii who has yet to contribute anything at all. To me, in this setting its a huge tell as it reeks of scum waiting to be contacted by the cell leader. I would be happy to hit any of the other lurkers though, e.g. Kenpachi. Also I am getting a weird vibe from Mr.Wiggles taking a quick look at his posts I think this is making an obvious post in alot of words, I'm not sure its FoS worthy, as alot of this type of posting is going on, but it set off my radar interestingly enough its a repetition of a previous post, it says the evident "scum hunting is how we find scum" but still encourages us to look for breadcrumbs. I like the comment on the GF but the rest of the post seems like filler trying to look like something is being added, again, not enough to make me yell "scum" but its making my gut uncomfortable, this is the real reason I put a pressure vote on wiggles, rather than inactive he seemed to me to be lurking Its a long post, so my comments in bold inside the quote Verdict: Keep your eyes peeled for wiggles, something about him seems off to me. FoS TL Mafia XXXVIII: Assassin, accusation made by mafia + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 08:57 GMarshal wrote: Ignoring the running for mayor for a minute (as our main goal *is* killing scum, remember?) I wrote up a nice little PbP on one of my current scum suspects Mr.Wiggles. Each post is in spoilers and my comments are in bold as usual + Show Spoiler + Don't worry too much, this shouldn't be as active as insane, because, well, Insane was Insane. Hopefully people won't spam that much in this game, and I'd even like to put in a request that people try to limit their posting unless they have something relevant/meaningful to add to the conversation. People who just quote others, and say "I agree", or repeat the same things as others have already brought up, are perfect examples of "contributing without contributing", and that's a scum-tell. You know this is a great way to "contribute without contributing" you state a commonly known scum tell and say no spam please... well, duh. Still I can put this off as directing new players + Show Spoiler + Well this isn't technically night because no one takes actions. That said, there isn't much to talk about because we can't start mayoral campaigns. This means we're limited to mostly talking about general strategy and trying to establish a town policy, like no spam/try to contribute and add to the conversation, and other guidelines we'd like to put into place. Rehash of basic ideas, check! + Show Spoiler + Well if you're posting your own thoughts, then that's meaningful AND relevant, haha. But 9000 posts of cats in top hats and monocles wouldn't be. And saying "I agree" after every post isn't really contributing. If you want to agree with someone, at least add your own thought process as to why, and give some kind of explanation. That way you can look for mafia trying to make stuff up too. Spam is bad! No duh, but then again people were posting this kind of nonsense all night 0 so its not indicative + Show Spoiler + My thoughts on inactives: Don't lynch inactives, lynch lurkers. I guess it depends on your definition of inactive, but inactive for me, is someone who's not even playing the game, and has little to no posts. For me, the better choice is to pressure lurkers, who come in and post a couple times, then disappear. I think these are the people we should really be afraid of. They're a lot more dangerous, because by maintaining only a slight activity threshold to appease the town, they're easily able to hide amongst the masses. So personally, I'd rather lynch the guy who comes in twice a cycle to post a couple sentences, than Johnny-No-Posts who's not even playing the game. Lurkers want to hide behind a minimum of activity, inactives aren't even playing. (<--- My Take) I'm going to watch for people acting like that. well this *looks* like a contribution, but its a repost of an argument that town agrees on since time immemorial, its like posting "you should build drones" in response to "how do I macro better?" + Show Spoiler + Also, I think mafia would be more prone to trying to manipulate the town, whereas assassins would probably leave town be while focusing on finding the other assassins. So if you have two players kind've the same, but one is trying to manipulate the lynches and the other isn't, then you can differentiate them. an actual point! Yay! ok, nothing more to see here + Show Spoiler + As others have said, I think voting a black in is lose-lose. There's no guarantee he'll do anything to really help us, and then we lose our mayor/pardoner. something I agree with, fair enough Also, as far as medicing him goes, I think we can just drop the discussion on that until Day 2. Assassins can't do anything night one, so unless mafia wants to hit him, there's no need to waste a medic on him. If he still wants to negotiate for kills later, then we can do that when he's actually in a position to kill. However, just to add to that quickly, he's actually useless to town if he's not mayor/pardoner, because if he says he's hitting a town chosen target, mafia can just RB him, because he's outed himself publicly. So, we don't want him in office, and he can't help us out of office. again a really valid point, I have exactly one objection to it, the fact that after concluding that he is useless out of office he still talks about negotiating with the assassin, its an interesting contradiction So, overall, I don't think he can help town much, besides giving all the other assassins a non-town target for night 2. Right now, I'm most comfortable picking either GMarshal or Dr.H for mayor. I've gotten the strongest town reads from them, and they've both shown they're not afraid of trying to look for scum and lead town in the right direction. Yay! ^ My thoughts. + Show Spoiler + Don't hit the most inactive, that's stupid. The most inactive is likely not even playing the game, or they're just going to get Modkilled. If we want to do a policy lynch on activity, do it on a lurker. You call a lurker someone contributing without contributing, but with the amount of newer players in the game, that might not be the best deciding factor for day 1. I'd say lynch someone who was really active earlier in the game, like pregame, or night 0, and who has completely disappeared with only a minimum of posts by the end of day 1. This is a decent point, +1 townie point for it kind sir + Show Spoiler + How am I lurking? I'm just not rehashing the exact same points as everyone else over and over again. I was going to bring up some of the reasons I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal, but they were already raised by others, so instead of just repeating what's already been said three times I mentioned that protac isn't going to be useful to us at all if he doesn't get elected, so we shouldn't waste medics on him, just leave him for the other assassins to use hits on, keeping them off of town Alright this is a fair defense of my "lurking" accusation, however in his previous posts he made exactly one good point, that being about the assassin + Show Spoiler + And now that I think of it, there's other assassin, who may or may not be using their KP on the same night, on different or similar targets. So, there's no way to tell if mafia used all four hits or not. Meaning, it's easy for red to use one of their KPs as the "assassin" KP. I do believe this was already mentioned, neutral read on this post + Show Spoiler + The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2.... I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue... this is a very, very good point and one I agree with, +1 townie point for him Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea: At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory. yeah, we know this, this is kind of filler If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well. again, I think this is obvious Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner. This is an actual good point +1 town point In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. + Show Spoiler + Forgot assassin. I'd be willing to let him in as pardoner, but not mayor. Dr.H/protac interesting, Wiggles said "I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal" but now he is ok with a black pardoner... it is noteworthy, and if kav's theory that Pro is actualy red holds true then very, very revealing + Show Spoiler + No, but it looks highly suspicious that you don't post any thoughts/opinions (or anything at all really) since the game has started, and then come in and vote. What are your thoughts on the current situation? Why do you like GMarshal the best for mayor? Why don't you like the other candidates? same questions I ask, after I asked them... slightly scummy, but it could be down to simultaneous posts Conclusion: Lurking he adds a total of two new ideas by my count and his best post is the one focused on not exposing the bgs, I'm having a hard time labeling him as anything. Hence I suggest we all keep an eye on him and make him post more, I'm leaning slightly more towards scum than town atm, but I need more to analyze TL Mafia XXXVII: Cop + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2011 09:21 Ser Aspi wrote: how nice of you to pop up with this laughably confused post. "not entirely convinced" about annul, huh? Well of ur 10 in game posts (lets compare this to 30 pre-game spam posts now) ur whole agenda has been subtly pushing doubt on aggressive people in general, then proceeding to softly cast doubt on annul. Then you quote gryffindor when he connects annul to GMarshal without adding any insight. What the heck are you trying to do here? Combined with the above quoted post, this is absolutely scummy. If you think one of GMarshal/gryf is scum, why aren't you voting for them? If gryf connected GMarshall and annul, why do you NOT have annul in your "probably scum" pile? if you think lynching annul will clear up the thread, why not vote for gryffindor, who fits both categories of a) spamming up the thread, and b) you think is "probably scum"? Your logic reaks of scum. Burn the witch. ##Unvote Vote## Mr. Wiggles These were the last 4 games I've played where I wasn't scum, all marked by a day 1 scum accusation. Wondering if there's anything specific I'm doing that seems to trigger scum alarms so frequently. :p | ||
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