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Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
I wonder why there are so many claims right now,this is Day 2 and we can't cover everyone ( I highly doubt we've got 3 medics,and one of them is not weak/paranoid),we might actually have no docs,which would be grim. I suggest to play more safely now,we've got really good weapon in our hands now (Mr.Wiggles as King) I will address my Chaoser case right now,to see if there's change.
Same with the newest things (clue,Gmarshal's claim,Incognito case)
I think there was some discussion which leaned to not checking votes on lynched people,Gmarshall checked Kavdragon's wagon,but that's ok,we have a good enough intel now.
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified.
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Is it not a safe bet to ride the "Lynch the Incog" train? He was already a high profile target Day 1 and really hasn't done anything to improve his image.
If we take what GM says at face value we are getting great odds at a mafia lynch. The only issue is that even if the lynch flips blue that doesn't prove anyone else red at this point. There are no real connections between any of those players.
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As I have been relatively quiet this game, I'm hoping to make up for it now by mustering my courage and actually building a case against someone that I've been suspicious about for much of the game: Ace. This seems especially timely now that people like bumatlarge are starting to believe he is pro-town. Kavdragon has already done a little of this here, though he ruined his own point by vacillating at the end and saying "I don't think he's Mafia." I, on the other hand, think Ace is most likely Mafia, after having reviewed his posts in the game for the tenth or so time. Besides, even if my case doesn't make much of an impact, I hope the simple act of sharing my thoughts about who is Mafia should help town in the long run, if only to give other scum-hunters more help in determining my alignment for themselves.
As much as I can, I'm going to avoid evaluating Incognito's play so far and concentrate on Ace's responses to him, which I have found very telling. He has very loudly and noisily attacked Incognito for being scum and urged everyone to lynch him, but when pressed, his only reasoning was, "Incognito made some weird posts at the beginning of the game. He was the first one to point fingers at someone." This reasoning makes little sense to me, considering that, first of all, everyone in this game has made random posts at some point. Ace's own early-game posts are hardly masterpieces of insight and deep thinking themselves, with witticisms like "TLDR I fell asleep reading this," "I'm going to sleep now," "The shit is this?", and "Hey, look, I have a gun!" (Hehe, I just noticed that Ace also says, "I'm going to relax this game" early on and then later, "I don't know if you're on LSD or what, but not once did I suggest "sitting back and relaxing" this game.") If Ace were really serious about accusing people who have made weird posts this game, why hasn't he said anything about Chezinu? What about KillerSOS, whose contributions have been largely one-liners with little thought or substance that I can find? Or anyone else who has been lurking? While Chezinu does have a reputation for being off-the-wall, this isn't a PM-allowed game where he can justify his public inanity with private ingenuity. At this point, his cryptic posts are just cluttering up the game without contributing anything comprehensible to us readers. Yet, Ace doesn't even mention Chezinu, despite the fact that his confusing posts far outweigh Incognito's. Instead, Ace's insists on going after Incognito despite his own condemnnation of people who make accusations based off 1-5 posts.
Second, while Incognito's posts started out puzzling and dubious, he's since given us a wealth of thoughts, player and role analysis, and ideas. While the merits of his vote-checking plan remain in doubt and his Kavdragon read turned out to be incorrect, Incognito has undeniably been active and thoughtful and has put a lot of effort into analyzing roles and the strategies that lets the town put them to use. However, Ace never actually addresses Incognito's more substantial recent posts or criticizees the points he makes about either vote lists or Kavdragon. He avoids saying anything definitive about anyone, aside from half-heartedly criticizing people voting for Barundar. At one point, he actually agrees with Incognito about Kavdragon being timid, then inexplicably switches his vote to Radfield amid the chaos before the lynch. As far as I could tell, Ace's entire reaction to Incognito's vote-list-arranging plan and accusation against Kavdragon was more of the same that he was already posting before: a big picture of Leonardo DiCaprio, with a cute nickname for Kavdragon and another unbacked claim of Incognito posting as town, without any further reasoning behind it.
Speaking of Radfield, Ace has recently started attacking him without any reasoning either, as far as I can tell. Aside from calling him sketchy once, he hasn't given any reason for now attacking Incognito and Radfield with equally rabid fervor. I admit I think some of Radfield's priorities in his early "Town Pick" and "Town No-Pick" role lists were a bit skewed, but I haven't seen anything else from him that makes me suspicious. He too has put a lot of effort into trying to help guide and lead the town, analyze fellow players, and back up his assertions with good reasons. Yet, Ace is now claiming he is scum as well. Why is Ace picking on the two most active, hardworking, and analytical players in the game, who have both done their best to offer pro-town plans? Why hasn't he offered more than one-line analyses of either of them? For that matter, why has he rarely posted more than one or two lines at a time at all this entire game?
If anyone would like specific examples of Ace's posts to support my points, please let me know and I will go find them and quote them.
I don't like Ace's play at all this game, because he supplies so little reasoning to support his accusations of strong players while totally ignoring non-contributing players like Chezinu or KillerSOS. Either he is just being lazy and skating on his name and reputation, or he is Mafia trying to pick off well-known players. So, today, I will be voting for him to be lynched.
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On May 19 2011 22:04 GMarshal wrote:
Is it morning already? Cool.
Ok, its time to bag some mafia, I'm the Mafia II Detective and I vote checked the Kav wagon. There were 2 mafia voting for Kavdragon yesterday, which means that out of 6 voters
KAVDRAGON (6): , GMarshal, Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel
two are scum and the rest are town or cleverly disguised mafia. I know I'm town, which means we should lynch into one of these five today: Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel. If there were any alignment checks in there then we can narrow the lynch even more.
I'd ask we keep all discussion and votes focused on these five candidates, and if wiggles would be so kind we can lynch Chezinu and only have four people to worry about, some of which we can actually analyze
Ugh. I was writing up my post when you wrote this, so now I feel a little bad for discussing a player not on your list.
However, knowing this along with flamewheel's clue is actually extremely thought-provoking. I googled "Peyton Hillis" from his clue and saw he was a player on the Cleveland Browns. This immediately suggested Chezinu, who has never stopped advocating the Brown...Empire? Something like that. Being brown, anyway. I'm not sure if that is what Ver intended us to get out of the clue, but it does match up with someone from your votecheck list, someone who hasn't contributed much, appears to be trying to skate by unnoticed, and has had to be warned for nonsense spam to boot. I admit the brown connection is shaky, but thinking back over his post history this game, I wouldn't mind either if Chezinu got lynched today either.
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On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
What? Kingmaker is just like any other role. Do you mean will being made "King" override the role of a player? If that is the case, I'd say no.
On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified.
Unless you didn't read any of my posts last night... never mind. And why would I even bother "responding" to your accusations? You can think whatever you like, but it's deemed pointless to me. But hey, at least I'm talking to you right now.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Thankfully we have two lynches, right? Now then the question arises... what do we do with Mr. Wiggles' lynch when he shows up?
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On May 19 2011 23:32 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
What? Kingmaker is just like any other role. Do you mean will being made "King" override the role of a player? If that is the case, I'd say no. Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified. Unless you didn't read any of my posts last night... never mind. And why would I even bother "responding" to your accusations? You can think whatever you like, but it's deemed pointless to me. But hey, at least I'm talking to you right now.
Yeah I meant person made King.
Well Your Bulletproof people list makes some sense and might be useful later. You started to making stances a bit,still Your posts are small. This is a slight improvement,though not "something"(like a big insight into someone) I think You're on the right track in my eyes to start appearing Town.
I don't fully understand Your dont-respond-to-attack technique,but looks like You know what You're doing,still I will keep my eye on that.
Now I should go back to more past things,not the recent.
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Chaoser is doing well,but I wonder if his "absence" wasn't just a card not to bring suspicion and evade a day 1 lynch(well,this does make him town,but rather a blue/scummy player).
He comes back with a good post,takes stance in couple of things (the rig/mdt combo,which he disagrees with,calls it "horrible")
He is after Incognito,though he does not talk about infinitystory's analysis,who has called Incognito scum. Does that mean Chaoser is not confident enough to push for lynch on him? He did not see it?Link
He shows some suspicion on GMarshal(about his vote change on Kav)
Got into Copy-cated Inventor discussion,where he said that the copy cat should claim and have a "test" from Town.
Looks at Ace's check on Radfield (pushing rig/mdt combo,not getting rigger while being quite high)
Chaoser addressed most of the boiling point things happening in our Town. He shows some suspicion upon Mr.Wiggles ("I am King and I could pretend that Politician/Journalist controlled me" idea)
He is slowly blending into our discussion,I think my scum accusation has less "power" now. He is still suspicious in my eyes,but he drove away a bit from the scum status,given that he started contributing and taking serious stances.
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"well,this does NOT make him town,but rather a blue(a good role)/scummy player"
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On May 19 2011 23:47 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 23:32 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
What? Kingmaker is just like any other role. Do you mean will being made "King" override the role of a player? If that is the case, I'd say no. On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified. Unless you didn't read any of my posts last night... never mind. And why would I even bother "responding" to your accusations? You can think whatever you like, but it's deemed pointless to me. But hey, at least I'm talking to you right now. Yeah I meant person made King. Well Your Bulletproof people list makes some sense and might be useful later. You started to making stances a bit,still Your posts are small. This is a slight improvement,though not "something"(like a big insight into someone) I think You're on the right track in my eyes to start appearing Town. I don't fully understand Your dont-respond-to-attack technique,but looks like You know what You're doing,still I will keep my eye on that. Now I should go back to more past things,not the recent.
I just noticed you're like the more adorable version of orgolove. I also like how you capitalize all "You/Your/You're"; No, I'm not making fun of your English. Your post just made me smile, in a relatively good way.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 19 2011 23:07 KillerSOS wrote:
Is it not a safe bet to ride the "Lynch the Incog" train? He was already a high profile target Day 1 and really hasn't done anything to improve his image.
Who cares about "safety"? I thought we were here to lynch scum, which is by definition not "safe". Your wording jumps out at me, in a negative way. Do you mean that you think incog is more likely to be mafia?
Right now I'm leaning Node as one of the mafia, his lurking behavior is extremely suspicious to me. Id *really* like it if we could have wiggles lynch Chezinu as analysis isn't going to get us anywhere with the "content" of his posts, and frankly I'd rather not have to worry about him being the bomberman and accidentally saying his codeword.
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@Fishball
It's a Polish thing.
+ Show Spoiler +DAT Southpark reference right there
We just capitalize it when we write letters(though it is mostly absent I feel like it is good to show some respect to person You're talking/writing on the forums)
Don't get angry Ver,I will have another post with actual Mafia content in a while
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
KAVDRAGON (6): , GMarshal, Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel
Wiggles needs to lynch Chezinu. Not KillerSOS as I previously mentioned. Also not 'someone he thinks is scummy'.
Chezinu is outrageously hard to read, and has basically no posts to analyse. It's a trait that gets you into trouble when something like this happens.
+ Show Spoiler +I really like playing with you Chez, and you make me laugh. No hard feelings
The rest of those players could go either way right now, though I'm not convinced Incog is scum and flame is edging upwards.
Other than that, I'm going to be looking at Callers past games tonight, and try to get a better feel for him. I will hopefully give Node some time as well.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 19 2011 16:53 Node wrote:Let's talk about Foolishness. + Show Spoiler +He's done nothing of consequence. He's maybe tickled Incognito a couple of times, but the majority of his posts do two things: 1) Complain. 2) Nothing. Here's his latest big ol' post. + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 12:05 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:08 Ace wrote:On May 19 2011 09:21 Foolishness wrote:
I would put $100 on there not being any vote checks tonight. I'd also put $500 on Inventor not inventing a vote check kit or a bullet proof vest. why so lurkish Foolishness? Dead Townie Day 1, vote switching, shit plans - and you don't have anything to say? Please tell me you're just bored  I'm bored of listening to lazy plans of how blue roles are going to win us the game while people like Radfield slowly get others (scamp, deconduo) to claim their role in the thread. I almost feel like we should all just mass claim at this point to at least try to coordinate our blues instead of just hoping they do what we want while mafia probe people in the thread to figure out who to kill. At the end of the day yesterday, I just thought Incognito had a bad case of Pyrrhuloxitis and wasn't really mafia, since to me some of his arguments against Kav were lol. So I didn't change my vote off of him until the end, but I lost track of time because I was watching proleague. Shit happens. Now I'm not sure what to think anymore. At the very least, Incog's attitude does not help the town in the current situation so I will still be voting him unless new information surfaces. And frankly, I doubt anything new will come up. If the vote checker checks some list (as planned) would you have them claim the results even if they aren't damning? We all know mafia spread out votes as much as possible, so they will probably get a 1/5 people are mafia in one of the lists. Well big freaking deal since we got a 1/5 chance of randomly killing a mafia with a lynch anyways. I fail to see how vote checking is going to get us anywhere tomorrow. This game has lots of good players, mafia aren't going to be stupid and lose because of a vote check. If nobody else is going to try to do some normal, mafia analysis, we might as well just throw in the towel now. These vote checks which are going to return 1/5 are mafia aren't going to help anything until day 4 when we get a bunch more vote checks to properly nab the mafia. Game will probably be close to over by then. Ace, you are the one who said we didn't have much to talk about, and already had the max (or close to max) amount of information we could possibly get from day 1 prodding. I don't even expect you to still be reading this post. But if you want to sit around with your gun and let people like Radfield and Incognito mess up the town that's your deal. I got better things to do. It's a classic case of saying a lot while not actually saying anything. He champions analysis while doing none of his own, he shoots down the vote checker plan that nobody's been attempting for a day, he prods ace and says that he's got better things to do, but what those would be is anyone's guess. The only concrete contribution that Foolishness has had to the game is his frequent needling of Incognito. It all boils down to, "Incognito wants to win with blues but no analysis", which, granted, would be a bad thing if that was what Incognito wanted. He's constantly been saying "analysis good, do analysis", but has yet to become the change he wants to see. What raises my suspicions even more is that people are willing to say that he's worth defending (hint: he's not). People that I currently don't trust have been softly aligning themselves with Foolishness for reasons that I don't understand. For instance, Mr. Wiggles has Foolishness on his protect list here: + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 16:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Ok then, here's my thoughts for tonight:
Role-Checks:
These are the people who, at the moment, it would be a good idea to check their role. If scum got any of the first queue spots, they're likely to have taken a strong scum role from the no-pick list.
Flamewheel
Scamp
Caller
Barundar
Radfield
GMarshal
Alignment Checks:
These are the people I find somewhat suspicious, or who it would be nice to have an alignment check on.
Barundar
Node
Tnkted
Incognito
Radfield
Ace
Vig-Hit:
Deconduo
I'm thinking he's VI, maybe mafia Hero, either way he isn't helping town, and I don't want to waste a lynch on him later. Debatable.
Medic list:
These are the people I think ought to be protected. Either they're acting pro-town already, or have good potential to help town day 2.
Caller
bumatlarge
Radfield
Incognito
Flamewheel
Foolishness
This is just a summary of my thoughts at the moment. Disagree? Want to add? Just cause it's night doesn't mean we need to shut up. quoth Radfield: On May 17 2011 04:59 Radfield wrote:
I agree with everything Foolishness is saying. Radfield also has Foolishness on his protect list here: + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 19:19 Radfield wrote:So much for 100% eh Incog.... On the bright side, this lynch hopefully gives us oodles of information down the line, once incog and Barundars alignment flips. On another bright note, Incognito won't get targeted by mafia tonight, so in the event he is town he'll probably survive the night. Unless of course a townie shoots him, but if that's the case so be it. Mr. Wiggles, I very much disagree with your rolecheck list. There is a list of roles in this game that no townie should be caught dead with, so we want to use our rolechecks to try and ascertain alignment. Checking the people at the top of the list gives us very little information regarding their alignment. The top 6/7 all have an excellent excuse(whether legit or not) for taking an anti-town role. No one else on the list has that excuse. Anyone with a role check should be looking at whomever they think is scummy lower down on the list. If they have a scummy role(a role on the no-pick list) then they're probably mafia. I really hope someone does an alignment check on Barundar. Even setting aside my suspicions, he was assigned caller gf or cpr doc, so knowing his alignment is very important. Other players worth an alignment check: Flamewheel Infinitestory? Incognito Mr. Wiggles Chaoser dreamflower Players worth some medic protection: Radfield Bum Caller Ace - probably won't get picked off though foolishness - if town he likely has a defensive role anyways GMarshall - there are heaps of suspicion on him, so he is unlikely to get hit Scamp, as inventor, should get a skiff of medic protection Anyone else dying wouldn't be terrible at this point. I'd like to stress that flamewheel doesn't belong on any medic lists, or townie lists. He has done very little to contribute to the town this game. Besides, assuming he is telling the truth about JOAT, I'm pretty sure he can protect himself if he wants to. Inventor(Scamp) should be passing the vote-list checks either to whomever they have the strongest pro-town read on. Chaoser, despite finishing his interviews(his pre-tuesday excuse) still ended up contributing basically zero to the discussion. Simply popped in and voted Incog. Pick it up Chaoser. + Show Spoiler +Incog, you fooled me the first game I ever played. I was sure you were pro-town, but instead you dominated town, took control, and lead mafia to victory with about 5 members left over. Something flamewheel hosted... XXI maybe? On May 18 2011 13:03 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, since I won't be able to post this after my death: All newer players, please take note of the fact that Incog, Ace, and Caller all read me wrong. Vet's are not as good as anyone thinks, including themselves. The only thing you should be afraid of is their egos.
Well of course I'm complaining. Yesterday the town fell into the hands of Incognito and his big ego. And I'm always going to be around to call bs on a player who claims blues are going to win us the game. I thought town was in a terrible situation last night given how easily Incog was able to sway everyone to vote for Kav. Granted I expected 3-5 people to die at night instead of 1.
Chez says I have a scum agenda, would like to hear what that is (even though we all know that ain't gonna happen).
At any rate, we got 2 mafia in a list of 5 (remember that you're one of them). Of course I'm going to vote Wiggles kill Incognito, but I'll settle for Chez as well. I don't think many people will have an objection to killing Chez so it's probably best for Wiggles to just kill him now before another role is able to step in and do something about it.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Also, can Ace confirm that Radfield doesn't have some anti-town role? You (Ace) made it sound like Radfield picked some terrible role that only hurts the town, in which case we need to be killing him tonight.
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On May 19 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote:Hi Ace Just sleeping like every night. It should have been apparant from the way I was posting in thread that I didn't take VR, but given how much your pushing, I'll assume you actually did check me last night. Here's the thing, if you know my role, which I assume you do, you shouldn't even need to question me. You should be saying " ahhhh, I see, I understand certain things now". You get what I'm saying? Yes, I didn't take vote-rigger, and that was a risk if mafia went for it below me(and then rigged the votes; obviously I would get held accountable). hmm, originally I was going to say more here Ace(and Fishball), but have edited most of it out. Lets be smart. Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 13:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
And guys, I'd just like to let you all know I'm king today too. :p Ver, does the politician have to post in the thread with their ##nuke or ##lynch target? I've been assuming this is the case, but now i'm not so sure. I think this guarantees us a politician. A kingmaker on it's own it at worst a nuisance for town, at best a useful double lynch. Combined with a politician it is massively nasty. There is no way mafia would take Kingmaker without a politician, and no way a townie kingmaker would make Mr. Wiggles the king. Do people disagree with this hypothesis? Mr. Wiggles, I'd like for you to cast your vote right now for KillerSOS. If you do not, I think we will almost certainly lose a pro-town player to the politician. From my understanding, the king lynch operates like a dayvig, so if you use your power now, it's gone and there is nothing for the politician to use. If people want to call me scummy on this, that's fine, but it's the smart play.
I know what your role is and thanks for the explanation but I really want to know why you didn't follow your own plan?
Secondly don't tell Wiggles who to vote for.
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On May 19 2011 22:04 GMarshal wrote:
Is it morning already? Cool.
Ok, its time to bag some mafia, I'm the Mafia II Detective and I vote checked the Kav wagon. There were 2 mafia voting for Kavdragon yesterday, which means that out of 6 voters
KAVDRAGON (6): , GMarshal, Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel
two are scum and the rest are town or cleverly disguised mafia. I know I'm town, which means we should lynch into one of these five today: Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel. If there were any alignment checks in there then we can narrow the lynch even more.
I'd ask we keep all discussion and votes focused on these five candidates, and if wiggles would be so kind we can lynch Chezinu and only have four people to worry about, some of which we can actually analyze
Also if there are any medics in play, a protect would be *really* nice tonight
That is all. Carry on.
(also apologies for vanishing last night, computer issues + craptone of work = no time for mafia)
And of those 6, Flamewheel and Caller are at the top of the draft order. Since Scamp died and FW claimed to have been hit last night I think we can guess where the next hits are going.
Incognito is once again back in the pot. Let's be serious here. InfiniteStory gave a good breakdown
of his Day 1 posting, and several players have questioned his behavior. We even said the Kavdragon lynch was wishy washy and to top it off he's found on a list check with Scum votes according to GM. All that theory about "Mafia laying back and not being active" is now out the window. Once again bullshitting. Vote him off. Now.
On May 20 2011 01:11 Foolishness wrote:
Also, can Ace confirm that Radfield doesn't have some anti-town role? You (Ace) made it sound like Radfield picked some terrible role that only hurts the town, in which case we need to be killing him tonight.
Depends on your definition of anti-town and what the circumstances are. Whether it's anti-town or not isn't the case here and I never commented on anyone's pre-determined "anti-town" lists.
The fact that he is high up in the draft order and made a plan that he didn't follow, combined with his sketchy play Day 1 makes this an issue. His answer to my question was pretty bad and I expected something more.
On May 19 2011 23:21 dreamflower wrote:As I have been relatively quiet this game, I'm hoping to make up for it now by mustering my courage and actually building a case against someone that I've been suspicious about for much of the game: Ace. This seems especially timely now that people like bumatlarge are starting to believe he is pro-town. Kavdragon has already done a little of this here, though he ruined his own point by vacillating at the end and saying "I don't think he's Mafia." I, on the other hand, think Ace is most likely Mafia, after having reviewed his posts in the game for the tenth or so time. Besides, even if my case doesn't make much of an impact, I hope the simple act of sharing my thoughts about who is Mafia should help town in the long run, if only to give other scum-hunters more help in determining my alignment for themselves. As much as I can, I'm going to avoid evaluating Incognito's play so far and concentrate on Ace's responses to him, which I have found very telling. He has very loudly and noisily attacked Incognito for being scum and urged everyone to lynch him, but when pressed, his only reasoning was, "Incognito made some weird posts at the beginning of the game. He was the first one to point fingers at someone." This reasoning makes little sense to me, considering that, first of all, everyone in this game has made random posts at some point. Ace's own early-game posts are hardly masterpieces of insight and deep thinking themselves, with witticisms like "TLDR I fell asleep reading this," "I'm going to sleep now," "The shit is this?", and "Hey, look, I have a gun!" (Hehe, I just noticed that Ace also says, "I'm going to relax this game" early on and then later, "I don't know if you're on LSD or what, but not once did I suggest "sitting back and relaxing" this game.") If Ace were really serious about accusing people who have made weird posts this game, why hasn't he said anything about Chezinu? What about KillerSOS, whose contributions have been largely one-liners with little thought or substance that I can find? Or anyone else who has been lurking? While Chezinu does have a reputation for being off-the-wall, this isn't a PM-allowed game where he can justify his public inanity with private ingenuity. At this point, his cryptic posts are just cluttering up the game without contributing anything comprehensible to us readers. Yet, Ace doesn't even mention Chezinu, despite the fact that his confusing posts far outweigh Incognito's. Instead, Ace's insists on going after Incognito despite his own condemnnation of people who make accusations based off 1-5 posts. Second, while Incognito's posts started out puzzling and dubious, he's since given us a wealth of thoughts, player and role analysis, and ideas. While the merits of his vote-checking plan remain in doubt and his Kavdragon read turned out to be incorrect, Incognito has undeniably been active and thoughtful and has put a lot of effort into analyzing roles and the strategies that lets the town put them to use. However, Ace never actually addresses Incognito's more substantial recent posts or criticizees the points he makes about either vote lists or Kavdragon. He avoids saying anything definitive about anyone, aside from half-heartedly criticizing people voting for Barundar. At one point, he actually agrees with Incognito about Kavdragon being timid, then inexplicably switches his vote to Radfield amid the chaos before the lynch. As far as I could tell, Ace's entire reaction to Incognito's vote-list-arranging plan and accusation against Kavdragon was more of the same that he was already posting before: a big picture of Leonardo DiCaprio, with a cute nickname for Kavdragon and another unbacked claim of Incognito posting as town, without any further reasoning behind it. Speaking of Radfield, Ace has recently started attacking him without any reasoning either, as far as I can tell. Aside from calling him sketchy once, he hasn't given any reason for now attacking Incognito and Radfield with equally rabid fervor. I admit I think some of Radfield's priorities in his early "Town Pick" and "Town No-Pick" role lists were a bit skewed, but I haven't seen anything else from him that makes me suspicious. He too has put a lot of effort into trying to help guide and lead the town, analyze fellow players, and back up his assertions with good reasons. Yet, Ace is now claiming he is scum as well. Why is Ace picking on the two most active, hardworking, and analytical players in the game, who have both done their best to offer pro-town plans? Why hasn't he offered more than one-line analyses of either of them? For that matter, why has he rarely posted more than one or two lines at a time at all this entire game? If anyone would like specific examples of Ace's posts to support my points, please let me know and I will go find them and quote them. I don't like Ace's play at all this game, because he supplies so little reasoning to support his accusations of strong players while totally ignoring non-contributing players like Chezinu or KillerSOS. Either he is just being lazy and skating on his name and reputation, or he is Mafia trying to pick off well-known players. So, today, I will be voting for him to be lynched.
Review them for an 11th time. Amazing you come out with this when we've got a vote list checker with 2 Scum out of 6, your boy Radfield on the wax and Incognito about to go down in flames. Trying to steer attention away from them much? You keep trying to throw Chezinu and KillerSOS's "lack of posting" into the mix as if I'm supposed to be watching them. I know what I've seen from Incognito and it is not good.
Bet $20 dreamflower picked Mad Hatter.
As for you bolded thats completely untrue. Being Active and "hardworking" doesn't make you pro-town. Should we give the citi.zenship Award to everyone who points fingers? And my case for Radfield is very well grounded. If you notice I haven't called Radfield scum yet or even cast my vote on him - you're saying things that didn't happen. I'm just waiting for Radfield to explain himself even better. If being pro-town in your words is creating plans then Radfield is in trouble as he didn't follow his own plan.
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On May 20 2011 01:09 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 16:53 Node wrote:Let's talk about Foolishness. + Show Spoiler +He's done nothing of consequence. He's maybe tickled Incognito a couple of times, but the majority of his posts do two things: 1) Complain. 2) Nothing. Here's his latest big ol' post. + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 12:05 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:08 Ace wrote:On May 19 2011 09:21 Foolishness wrote:
I would put $100 on there not being any vote checks tonight. I'd also put $500 on Inventor not inventing a vote check kit or a bullet proof vest. why so lurkish Foolishness? Dead Townie Day 1, vote switching, shit plans - and you don't have anything to say? Please tell me you're just bored I'm bored of listening to lazy plans of how blue roles are going to win us the game while people like Radfield slowly get others (scamp, deconduo) to claim their role in the thread. I almost feel like we should all just mass claim at this point to at least try to coordinate our blues instead of just hoping they do what we want while mafia probe people in the thread to figure out who to kill. At the end of the day yesterday, I just thought Incognito had a bad case of Pyrrhuloxitis and wasn't really mafia, since to me some of his arguments against Kav were lol. So I didn't change my vote off of him until the end, but I lost track of time because I was watching proleague. Shit happens. Now I'm not sure what to think anymore. At the very least, Incog's attitude does not help the town in the current situation so I will still be voting him unless new information surfaces. And frankly, I doubt anything new will come up. If the vote checker checks some list (as planned) would you have them claim the results even if they aren't damning? We all know mafia spread out votes as much as possible, so they will probably get a 1/5 people are mafia in one of the lists. Well big freaking deal since we got a 1/5 chance of randomly killing a mafia with a lynch anyways. I fail to see how vote checking is going to get us anywhere tomorrow. This game has lots of good players, mafia aren't going to be stupid and lose because of a vote check. If nobody else is going to try to do some normal, mafia analysis, we might as well just throw in the towel now. These vote checks which are going to return 1/5 are mafia aren't going to help anything until day 4 when we get a bunch more vote checks to properly nab the mafia. Game will probably be close to over by then. Ace, you are the one who said we didn't have much to talk about, and already had the max (or close to max) amount of information we could possibly get from day 1 prodding. I don't even expect you to still be reading this post. But if you want to sit around with your gun and let people like Radfield and Incognito mess up the town that's your deal. I got better things to do. It's a classic case of saying a lot while not actually saying anything. He champions analysis while doing none of his own, he shoots down the vote checker plan that nobody's been attempting for a day, he prods ace and says that he's got better things to do, but what those would be is anyone's guess. The only concrete contribution that Foolishness has had to the game is his frequent needling of Incognito. It all boils down to, "Incognito wants to win with blues but no analysis", which, granted, would be a bad thing if that was what Incognito wanted. He's constantly been saying "analysis good, do analysis", but has yet to become the change he wants to see. What raises my suspicions even more is that people are willing to say that he's worth defending (hint: he's not). People that I currently don't trust have been softly aligning themselves with Foolishness for reasons that I don't understand. For instance, Mr. Wiggles has Foolishness on his protect list here: + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 16:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Ok then, here's my thoughts for tonight:
Role-Checks:
These are the people who, at the moment, it would be a good idea to check their role. If scum got any of the first queue spots, they're likely to have taken a strong scum role from the no-pick list.
Flamewheel
Scamp
Caller
Barundar
Radfield
GMarshal
Alignment Checks:
These are the people I find somewhat suspicious, or who it would be nice to have an alignment check on.
Barundar
Node
Tnkted
Incognito
Radfield
Ace
Vig-Hit:
Deconduo
I'm thinking he's VI, maybe mafia Hero, either way he isn't helping town, and I don't want to waste a lynch on him later. Debatable.
Medic list:
These are the people I think ought to be protected. Either they're acting pro-town already, or have good potential to help town day 2.
Caller
bumatlarge
Radfield
Incognito
Flamewheel
Foolishness
This is just a summary of my thoughts at the moment. Disagree? Want to add? Just cause it's night doesn't mean we need to shut up. quoth Radfield: On May 17 2011 04:59 Radfield wrote:
I agree with everything Foolishness is saying. Radfield also has Foolishness on his protect list here: + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 19:19 Radfield wrote:So much for 100% eh Incog.... On the bright side, this lynch hopefully gives us oodles of information down the line, once incog and Barundars alignment flips. On another bright note, Incognito won't get targeted by mafia tonight, so in the event he is town he'll probably survive the night. Unless of course a townie shoots him, but if that's the case so be it. Mr. Wiggles, I very much disagree with your rolecheck list. There is a list of roles in this game that no townie should be caught dead with, so we want to use our rolechecks to try and ascertain alignment. Checking the people at the top of the list gives us very little information regarding their alignment. The top 6/7 all have an excellent excuse(whether legit or not) for taking an anti-town role. No one else on the list has that excuse. Anyone with a role check should be looking at whomever they think is scummy lower down on the list. If they have a scummy role(a role on the no-pick list) then they're probably mafia. I really hope someone does an alignment check on Barundar. Even setting aside my suspicions, he was assigned caller gf or cpr doc, so knowing his alignment is very important. Other players worth an alignment check: Flamewheel Infinitestory? Incognito Mr. Wiggles Chaoser dreamflower Players worth some medic protection: Radfield Bum Caller Ace - probably won't get picked off though foolishness - if town he likely has a defensive role anyways GMarshall - there are heaps of suspicion on him, so he is unlikely to get hit Scamp, as inventor, should get a skiff of medic protection Anyone else dying wouldn't be terrible at this point. I'd like to stress that flamewheel doesn't belong on any medic lists, or townie lists. He has done very little to contribute to the town this game. Besides, assuming he is telling the truth about JOAT, I'm pretty sure he can protect himself if he wants to. Inventor(Scamp) should be passing the vote-list checks either to whomever they have the strongest pro-town read on. Chaoser, despite finishing his interviews(his pre-tuesday excuse) still ended up contributing basically zero to the discussion. Simply popped in and voted Incog. Pick it up Chaoser. + Show Spoiler +Incog, you fooled me the first game I ever played. I was sure you were pro-town, but instead you dominated town, took control, and lead mafia to victory with about 5 members left over. Something flamewheel hosted... XXI maybe? On May 18 2011 13:03 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, since I won't be able to post this after my death: All newer players, please take note of the fact that Incog, Ace, and Caller all read me wrong. Vet's are not as good as anyone thinks, including themselves. The only thing you should be afraid of is their egos. Well of course I'm complaining. Yesterday the town fell into the hands of Incognito and his big ego. And I'm always going to be around to call bs on a player who claims blues are going to win us the game. I thought town was in a terrible situation last night given how easily Incog was able to sway everyone to vote for Kav. Granted I expected 3-5 people to die at night instead of 1. Chez says I have a scum agenda, would like to hear what that is (even though we all know that ain't gonna happen). At any rate, we got 2 mafia in a list of 5 (remember that you're one of them). Of course I'm going to vote Wiggles kill Incognito, but I'll settle for Chez as well. I don't think many people will have an objection to killing Chez so it's probably best for Wiggles to just kill him now before another role is able to step in and do something about it.
I say we vote Chezinu off and let Mr.Wiggles kill Incognito. After yesterday I really don't trust most of the town to think clearly. They've been reading posts but ignoring actions, and even looking at other games as if it's evidence as to whats going to happen this game.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Keep in mind that Radfield's the one who made Scamp publicly say he was the Inventor (more or less).
If you're waiting for him to give a better explanation I don't think we'll get one. At any rate I trust your judgment at the moment whether or not to reveal what his role is. I just don't want you turning up dead while the rest of us have to sit and guess what he's scheming behind everyone's backs.
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See? Something turned up. Given how the last few pages turned out I'm pretty confident the recent posters are town. I wouldve expected maybe 1 player on the Kavdragon lynch to actually be mafia, but I guess there's two. At this point, my guess is on Chezinu and Caller.
Feel free to lynch me. But I seriously doubt you'll be able to, once I do the exact opposite of what the mafia would want to do.
##Nuke Chezinu
Everyone should agree that getting rid of Chezinu is a pro-town move. Especially now that there is a vote check on the Kavdragon lynch. Now seriously, what mafia would shoot into a vote list that has 2/6 red on it? Unless of course I am conspiring with GMarshal to screw over the town, this doesn't make any sense. But then again, conspiring with GMarshal doesn't make too much sense either if I'm announcing that option. Furthermore, it makes no sense for mafia to take America. Especially after Radfield proclaimed it an anti-town role. But if you think about it, its the most transparent role in the game. There's no way for me to hide from a misuse of the role, and its not like I can use it to kill blatant townspeople without significant backlash. Frankly put, America is a ridiculous option for mafia. There are way better KP roles for them to use. So feel free to pile your votes on me now. Nobody else type the nuke command. When Ver confirms that a nuke has been launched, you can all take your votes off me, ok?
I'll be back later with some more thoughts.
+ Show Spoiler +Funny thing I saw a couple days ago in the news: "IMF chief's arrest stirs up anti-Americanism in France" Seems fitting, huh Radfield? 
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